The Guitar Shop NYC - In Conversation with Ian Martin Allison

[Music] work then vigilance don't give me vigilance [Music] but hello welcome to the guitar shop Guitar Shop NYC my name is Eric Coco from LaBella we have James carbonetti over here from carbonetti guitars the mighty Ian Allison and our artist relations man Galore musician bass player Mitch looking so right dude look at this guy had to dress up right Ian here had to impress oh yeah yeah with the beveled cffs yeah come on wow yeah cool I just want to talk about your outfit all day yeah awesome I can hook you up if you need a guy I do need a guy I do Welcome to New York where everyone's got a guy oh yeah oh yeah so uh we're here today to celebrate Ian the base our team olinto um we have this really awesome opportunity to have Ian in town and present him this olto Jazz space oh look at that working on this project for quite some time and it has all come together and we are really excited about it you know very so what was the Genesis of this whole meeting would you say um what was it so I'm going to say before the N show not this past but but the year before yep um we made a roasted Ash roasted Maple roasted bird's eye natural um with the Tokyo tortoise guard yes and it was going to n and I'm testing all the bases before they go to n and I I like pulled Eric aside and I was like this one can't go away going yeah and he's like it's going and I was like but I need it and he's like no you don't you have enough faces it's got to go to n and I said okay and then I texted him numerous times and was like I can't sleep like just the thought of all these people like thinking about buying all over the I don't mind them playing it as long as I know it's coming back home with me you know what I mean but I was like can't I just can't let this one go and around the same time I don't even know if you know this Scott Divine separately from you was like what's up with that bass the that Jaz B wow and and I I got it was still technically for sale at that moment but both of you messaging me just confirmed that like it's I can't let it go and I right I messaged you immediately and I was just like I don't care it's mine and he was like if you're really serious I'll say it's sold and I said yes I am and we took it to n everyone hated everyone tried to buy it couldn't it was mine um so then you were like well I love that bass like tell me more about it yeah and we talked like tone and the woods and whatever and you were like I think that's kind of what I want I tried to convince you to go stack knob yeah and were like don't push me yeah not my thing I got it all good and I think the rest is kind of history and I have a uh a 78 Fender Ana base that isn't a great base on paper but it's like the one that I learned how to play a jazz base on why isn't it a great Bas on well because right it has all those things about late '70s it's heavy yes it's heavy it has horrible neck pocket gaps I like the chunky neck but yes pickups were weird sound though yes GS and the pop the whole thing Airy yeah yeah loose neck pop loose neck fit where you could almost take it on a gig and like if you pushed on the neck it would go oh yeah yeah and so yeah that's right just just pulling the neck there was uh I think you were like hey you know we've actually chatted about you know if if you'd be down to have us build you something to try to like beat your number one M Big Challenge and like you know that's a base that I absolutely love right I mean that's a base that is is a big big deal to me it's because of the history I have it's like that's your thing we see you we see that alongside you right most of the time and the Sunburst guy oh yeah the beat upst all the time those are like your I mean you have a lot of bases I've seen you play a lot of bases but for me when I think Ian Allison I think like the beat up it's like a 67 68 68 yeah I think of that one and I think the yeah well and this so I came in and these guys showed that it was up on the wall like last night you guys were like hey take a look over there and I couldn't even do it I cuz we were in the middle of a conversation and I could and I was like I don't look yet because because all my attention is going to be out at that moment and then finally the moment was right and I turned and and it's so lovely right like it's so good thank you every regard like it beats the Antiga it beats my 78 like sick wow in every regard I mean that base will still always be special to me but this is like a better instrument by leaps and balance I mean you guys know that but it's just from an outside perspective there's so many things and I'm happy to talk about all those things that I love about it um but like I first of all just wanted to say thank you because it was like an incredible honor to have you guys build this for me like I do not take it lightly it's a big deal like I still sometimes have to be like is this like is this real you know I played it last night in the hotel room too for like an hour until I was like falling asleep like because I just want to get I just want to get you know have the DNA of it and me Mel you know it's your take on Antigua which I absolutely love it's gold gold Antigua do you want to talk about J tell us about process man because you you were the genius behind us I mean I always love gold obviously uh and I always love bursts obviously so let's put them together and and uh you know it's always fun like I've always been a fan of the fender antiguas from the original ones from the Coronado in the' 60s yeah and they're so weird and awesome and um they don't get enough love I feel like and I feel like you've been one of the big champions of it and thank you for that totally dude I feel like if you don't love Antigua I don't trust you yeah I'm like at least like that's awesome like who thought of like a pale pukey yeah that's pukey yeah sometimes when they ate like it gets PUK it's true yeah so with this one I wanted it to be like just a broken in yeah that white burst uh with gold and then doing the guard with a clear Plexi so it never chip or anything it painted on the back you kind have to like think about you're like all right this the coat for you have to paint it backwards oh crazy right and I remember you telling me that cuz you're like oh and and that's something that you bring to you bring so much but like all those details around like on antiguas they painted the top of the guard and then that comes off yeah which is cool which is cool but you're you know what would be really cool is to is to do it onx yeah and then you put it on Plexi and flip it and then it never comes up just lives that's just that's a badass ATT to detail thing yeah and it's always just uh you know you got to keep it weird and you got to keep it functional and and uh just also beyond that just try and make the best instrument possible that you know suits the song and the the tone and that's why we went with the all roasted and think it really I mean so all roasted Ash yep roasted Maple neck roasted BR eye W yeah and something else to that I noticed and I still like last night I was playing notes hard on it trying to get it to give up yeah and the action is so delightfully low yeah and it does not ever fret out anywhere there's no like my obsession yeah but it's not common even for like really great yeah you know instruments yeah and the thing about super low setups is you can always make them higher mhm but you can lower correct right I always like to start at an uncomfortable super comfortable low cuz like At first like this isn't good enough this that's you can't live with this that's what I thought I like I have to up a little yes right because the humidity straightens it out changes a little bit yes the way I do the Frets with with the fall off and all of that and like I just always try and get a lot of head R yeah yes like the master volume thing head R right you can break it up musically sure but it's not going to you don't have to baby it no because on all of my fenders I have to wor there are notes that I worry about they occupy [Music] fend you incorporate that into your playing you do you know like okay the fifth fret on the D is like a little wonky so I'm going to always play the G up here yes right yeah that's and it can be cool it's part of it's like it makes it feel like it's a living thing almost but then when you play a Basse that's like physically perfect you're like oh what the was that that's fun thing with like having different bases each base has their own thing so it makes you play different but the thing about these are like they're like old muscle cards like yeah they'll do whatever want they'll just do whatever you want yeah I agree but it's familiar but it's going to be super modern feel like playing wise yes something too about this base that you guys I feel like you do on all your bases if I'm not mistaken is a thinner body than typical which is like 60 spec yeah we found a 63 from Le Nell and his was one of those thinner ones like a handful of them came out of the fact with fit yeah do we know if it was a mistake or were they trying something just like heavy-handed batch back then you know there's they're a little too much like oh these actually sound awesome right you know they were going to lose money on it but it worked yeah we fin know this is awesome yeah and early on we just kind of took that apart so it was a real Fender thing yeah yeah we love the Resonance of the thinner body yeah to me there's so many advantages of it just as a g to you as a gigging guy you get so used to it being like ergonomically in there and you're just like like where my wrist sits to like that's what I'm was saying to you like going back to thicker body bases and like where my arm has to sit and how far my hand goes over I don't know if thises difference it really throws me off now and I'm just like but then it's also the roundness cuz I'm really obsessed with making like wood and instruments feel soft like you don't want to feel it it it's just like it should just exist yes yes Alo there's a weight loss that is like really great I mean all of our bases are I mean this is extra light because everything's roasted guess how much it weighs we weighed the he guessed it we know but you don't know guess guess what it is I'm usually really good at this but now that I'm on camera now I'm going to it up and stupid I want I want you to guess um I'm going to say I mean I I like to live in a Range okay all right um this is somewhere between 58 and wow yeah I mean yeah lighter than that we interrupt you go keep going I was going to say like 6.7 is that your final answer yeah it's 7.6 which is still great oh I wanted it to be you want that's still stupid like for I mean so my Antigua weighs probably 11 PB I say late 7s late Rous um and something that I actually like about bases that don't weigh five or six pounds is the fact that when they do it's so headstock diab yeah you feel the hardare then yes you're supporting the hardware but there's a balanc thing that all of these have it never does that and so I like I love that this weighs well first of all 7.6 is freaking yeah um I don't think I've ever played a Bas it's five point you guys make bases that are five something we that guy right with we have made yeah we um with the super we never broken we don't break six even that five string that was a copy essentially of this not paint wise but woodwise that one was like ridiculous I remember before hardware and everything went on it was like in the fours oh yeah yeah I remember cuz we were like is this the lightest base we've ever made and and in the end I wasn't even crazy about like some of the Sonic I'm not a hug person sometimes I think you just run risks because like there is something to the really heavy Fender yeah there's tonal things that like those heavy ass fenders are like that was G's thing all the time he's like whenever play he's like whenever play with h not the stadium heavy L paw always yeah cuz it has like a it cuts gravitas yeah it cuts but I think white faes are just hit or miss I remember my 52 was insanely light that thing sounded great like I think it just when you get the lighter you go there's risk depends on pick you have to like really dial it in at that point when you're dealing with something that light I feel like maybe heavier bases can like hide issues because just of the mass like like they hit back yeah like you hit it and it C it's like a water it comes back right but yeah one design aspect that we were talking about last night which I thought was really important you know James explains about the roundness of wood and everything was the not thank you yeah oh yeah so and if you want to expand on that because this is something people say they go like this and then and you see light bulbs go off so yeah so when you pick up a Bas right you pick it up when you pick Bas up it when when you pick up a base if it's in a rack or something you always are picking it up here right maybe here but typically your hand goes to here and on almost every instrument there is a squared off Corner sharp corner situation here on the nut right where the string passes over to get to the tuners and you notice it and you wonder to your yourself this is just this just must be the way it is I guess I'm just going to like yeah just build up some extra calluses y it's on everything ouch oh I'm bleeding a little here and and I guess winter gig you're dry you're dry out you're dry you get blood on your base you're like well you know what I mean the the great suffer yeah for their art baby yeah and that's just what it is I guess and then you do this with vinto you're like oh my God it doesn't have to slice your hand open yeah that is I mean and look it's like it's a detail that people could do very easily but so many people choose not to do it yeah yeah because it's also difficult to do a really nice nut it's it's so difficult to make that feel like this it's an extra time I mean to be honest I never even cared as a b player like you're saying we get so used to that's what it is I never even cared like the nut was such an afterthought to me like yeah fret ends like if it's really ridiculously sharp that's an issue but it also didn't bother me so much and just from hanging out here and watching like Jimmy do his thing on these bases and his own instruments yeah I realized like oh like yeah I don't want to just say like w is would cuz that's not true but I'm just going to say it because the Frets and the nut are like so important yeah it has to be dial it changed my whole like well I feel like the Frets in the nut are like almost like the words and the wood is like the tone of your voice so it's like you can oh that's deep dog say it wait say say it again I saying like oh the the Frets yes and the nut yes are like the words because those are your notes so they have to be clear yep and then the wood is just like the tone of your voice like so the timber of it and stuff and then also the strings and everything you know you can just figure things out but you know I like that this is a testament to the detail that James puts in James is the head luier builder for olinto also does incredible guitars under his own brand name carbonetti guitars um he puts as the shirt says right here he puts all that effort into the oros he has full control of this and it shows yeah so everything has a reason just like we spoke about the nut and everything the detail everything has a function behind it yes as you can tell that base is a little like I guess I like to call it Wavy Gravy but um a lot of people take fillers and smash it into the ash smash it we don't do that we're we Chase tone we're tone Masters why would you want to fill that up with right thin lacquer as possible thin lacquer it's Nitro we use Nitro well we take it to the next level it's super super thin it ages right before your eyes sometimes when he does those those Ash ones that it's so thin you're still seeing like a contour in the G you're seeing it's organic it's a piece of wood right why cover that up um we chose a really beautiful roasted flame neck for Ian I don't know if you could see that it looks like a tiger shark it's really flamy okay and then it gets really really flamy towards the nut on the back there um we use a really nice high-grade piece of bird ey Maple for the fingerboard um and there's a little detail there which we uh started doing quite some time ago is we put the buffalo nickel and that's kind of been our like unscop and mascot for the relics this particular one we chose for Ian because it's a Super Rad buffalo nickel it's not like the regular Indian Head uh the Indian head has been carved into a skeleton a skull yeah so that is very unique um we made two of these bases we we uh we called them the twins um Mitch you mind grabbing that bad boy so um in honor of this moment we said why don't we build a twin but that's it's a little different they're not identical they're fraternal yeah there we go fraternal no they're definitely they're definitely fraternal so the reason we did this is because we could also show the audience that Hey look it's a jazz base this one has three knobs this one has our stack knob uh the way that we engineer that those Electronics in there Rosewood board it's got a Madagascar Rosewood and nothing is roasted nothing is roasted yeah little beef here that has a little bit more weight I don't know you know what do you think this one is like 3 lbs May oh well now I'm going to say I was going to go the I was going to go [Laughter] 14.7 nice thanks why I didn't want do this on camera what it take I knew it was going to come back to bite welcome um and this guard here is completely gold and doesn't have the burst underneath it but the same Plexi Plexi uh my ha's getting all and um you know James you want to explain a little about our circuit why it's different than the original well that one we have so it like Blends into each other so one of the coolest things I think cuz I yeah I've freak for for a while and it's always bugged me that nobody really went after the original stack knob circuit like if you pop open a 6061 you see those two like fat like Wax caps and then there's those little Rainbow resistors in there and it gave you this like super dark almost peab basy kind of sound which I thought like that's awesome but that's not what the Jazz base like became in everyone's head so I think when Fender like reissued it they were just like who cares about that like we're just going to stick some little like dime in there and I was always like appalled when I'd open it up like that's what's going on in there and then when we started doing this I I was like yo let's Source like a original you know I'm like going to get ridiculous let's Source original things remake that circuit and everyone was like no one cares about that and I was like ah you're right yeah so then Moss at the time was like let's try something and it ended up I guess it like almost runs in series at least that's how he explained it to me that like even with this let's say you you want your neck pickup off MH this tone is still running this tone so like you're almost getting double capacitor on each pickup which gives you like way more of a darker range of sound per pickup and then when they're both on it works just like tone tone right but everything's just way more blendable yeah you're getting like this extra range of palette for like darker tone now you're making me want to try it this I told you it's cool I mean it's I love that that exists I love that you guys do that and care to that level for me like when the heat is on there's three Jazz Bas sounds for me it's it's two pickups on full so scoop mid-range it's Joo right and then it's like neck pickup Jazz base which sort of feels like a 51 P giv and so there's to me in my mind there's three settings and and when I have stacked with the different tones and stuff I'm like oh my God it like messes with me too much and I knew that even if I tried this I would probably want to go to something that is really comfortable like what's on my base that I have I don't hold it again need to justify cuz when you talk about it it sounds so great it is cool and you know eventually you'll just get another one that you know there we go but I don't I don't fault to for doing the three now um can I talk about something that you guys now probably just take for granted because you're awesome this shape the headstock shape yeah is so great it's cool right and it's hard to make a gorgeous headstock yeah headstocks are so hard to do and this one acknowledges like Fender yeah it acknowledges it but then does something completely different and I like that it's big right yeah we big head yeah I that yeah and that's some like you know after believe tone there's tone there the size of the tuners also when you were deciding like back at the old place starting sign MOS goes well let's see your signature Eric he says you know this says I'm proud to see it so I I saw it a Big E and it goes like this he goes okay he takes it all right this is what the head Sox's going to look like your signature yeah it's based off of his so it goes like this and not like that just like the head big belly th that's cool yeah that's where it came from wow it came from well it's really good and that stuff matters so much and and not enough people are maybe transparent enough to talk about how much that matters like I don't know like not enough people say signature it's your signature imagine I get made fun of my headstock all the time Bring it on Weir the best the carbonetti head stuff it's man it in a good way in a good way but I'm always like bigger Head Socks the better all of my Heroes all huge head sock the Angelico all these guys like that stuff really like look at Paul big like all these guys yeah it really it's your thing it's the crown you know yeah I think there's also a trend I don't know feel like look how many bases now have no headstock sure it's I don't know if it's a travel thing or heads are fall or yeah yeah or just people are trying to be different I don't know it's just coming back to that 80s thing again like enough time has passed from like the Steinberger thing what do you think brought it on though I felt like it yeah yeah no not originally I mean now oh no now I feel like yeah it's more like modern metal dudes like going back to the to the Head headless thing interest so I swear I imagined it's because of like all the the horror stories on the airline travel yeah I think I think it's more aesthetic than it is practical I think like it was a thing it was cool in the'80s then it was not cool for so long and then like fashion yeah and people start going oh man those Stein bers were dope for sure and then like whereas in the 90s or in the early 2000s you know this guy made all the strings for that know he sat there going these are going to come back The Story Goes My my dad tells look Ned Stein Steinberg went all around the country looking for someone to help him with this design he goes everyone's turning me away they said this is and my says well they were in Newberg at the time they just moved from Long Island City he like I'll get you spot for down just down the street I'll help you and I'll develop the strings because it's a headless system true headless system double ball right right right A lot of these headless are not that's right these things come and they clamp your strings and if they don't have correct screw it's like this they splitting strings what was the build they thinking they're not flat screwed whatever but they're not true double balls we still use your original jigs from the early 80s that we made for Ned and our Factory so if you want the original double ball those are lell cool you know and yeah he started making the carbon fiber instruments two blocks away from more our Factory so us today yeah hey W speaking of strings we talk about the strings yeah sure that you made for this base we didn't make it for this base but you what no we did for sure we just fin like we just decided that's it you're the second person to basically play an afterm serious because you weren't a huge flat guy I want Flats on it and that's when we said we were like should we just like stick it to Ian go hear your Flats like enjoy and then you're like no we know he's going to want rounds and then I was I was just like we got to we got to give him the new string there's no way he's not going to like them you've been playing around with what we invented we called it super polish and the super polish is what we consider the evolution of what a quarter wound or a half wound right which those strings basically take a round wound stainless steel string and you run it through a grinder and that grinder shaves off the same with the edges of the of the little coils right well what that leaves is a slightly I'm going to say not say abrasive but little rougher finish yes okay so um after like wrestling with this for the past 20 years people tell me it's too much it's too little I said screw all of this and I'm not taking this feedback anymore I'm going to I'm going to evolve this to the next level so in my Factor we have developed these uh big polishers all right so these polishers basically mimic a human hen and fingers running the uh running up and down the string polishing the uh string right so these polishers basically big carriages running back and forth uh and what we do is we Mount the round B strings onto there and we start polishing the heck out of it right we use a thicker grate sandpaper then we go to a lighter GD to get that really high-end polish so what you get is this buttery feel it rubs away all those ridges off the round and leads you the super high polish string where your fingers could Glide up and down yeah for Ste this is the field right and you got the field down what's the sound doing well now you've invented something that's straight down the middle it's not a flat it's not a round it's still a little crunchy but it's smooth and it gives you some nice low end that still retains the best of both I think it lean to sonically I mean correct me if you think this is not true I feel like it leans more towards the round Wild sonically it does but then there is like something closer to a flat it into a flat yeah I yeah May ra than play Super round into a flat like you couldn't tonally make those more into flat wounds than a normal stainless steel yeah yeah that's I guess that's it takes off that top yeah there's a the very zingy thing kind of goes away but you can definitely do everything a round round should do with the but so much and as far as I know there's nothing like this and dude I am I'm big string nerd I've been checking out all the different string marketing gimmicky stuff for ages blue Steels dude cryogenically frozen right Cogen all those things and I've been like o I wonder if I wonder if I wonder if and then you spend a lot of time with that and you're like oh all streams are kind of the same that's right I'm like ah all streams are kind of there's no real Innovation but this to me feels like a crazy Innovation am I wrong no you're absolutely right we're so anti- gimmick like we've always said oh man look at the they're coming out with yeah and it is because it has no lifespan it goes oh like The Emperor's New Clothes and it farts out yeah right you know this is a true evolution of things that we've been doing for a hundred years like you know Bas strs yeah so these strings right now they're not part of the catalog you know we like we B made them for you you know these are the olto they work off the olto construction in the sense that they have the same cores yeah and uh you know and same gauge and same gug 47 to that's the magic that's the magic number so they're made bigger their Maids are probably 49 to 109 yeah and then ground down right so it's so you start still getting even a bigger going to take that meat down yeah you're going to take the diameter down um so light cores big gauges give you a very articulate but nice flexible feeling straight that doesn't like flop out and you didn't put them in a freezer and cryogenically no you do any you know the lovely New York grid on that running through puddles in the yeah we just run down the street but uh yeah so this was like an opportunity to bring all of this together for you and we'll probably have these out in a limited edition series pretty soon probably through our website level.com Ro club the roie club and at our shop at our shop always yeah so yeah again we're located here in Sunset Park Brooklyn uh this is our guitar shop and this is like our home this is where we build these instruments this is where James builds his instruments this is where we all sit down and hash out like crazy items yeah this is where we come up with all these ridiculous this is the laboratory this is the build site this is yeah today we're having this amazing Clinic with Ian yeah it's a home base for those type of things too uh we are the community shop we welcome everyone with open arms encourage everyone to sit down hang out try our instruments ask us questions buy some strings we get weird uh repair setups J thriving repair setup business some machine um yeah so this is us you know this is where we create everything you know yeah we're happy you're here oh I'm so happy to be here it's like a dream so it's it's a dream great uh yeah and I it's crazy like I just when I'm not playing this base I just want to be playing this base you know that's my goal with every build is like to make and it probably sounds cheesy but like to make everybody who orders an instrument have it be like their old friend like something that they're you know familiar with right and it's still new and fresh and and that's the fun part of building instruments like this of like it's super modern where it needs to be like a dual acting trust Rod a great fret job all of these things perfect tuners Bridge yeah but then everything else is back to the' 60s and how it was done yeah or earlier I I mean I feel like as a Basse player who loves vintage stuff both of us we're all vintage that's part of the thing is like you know if you're going to buy I mean at least to me if you're going to buy like a 62 P base I don't want the 62 that was kept in the closet and no one touched for a thousand years one that's been VI a lot yeah I want the one that like had I mean I had a rule forever that I would not buy a vintage base if it didn't have the burn here from someone's cigarette being in there all the time cuz I was like that base has been CLE Le neck wear or something yeah well yeah just because well if there's if there's a cigarette burn there's there's neck you know what yeah that same but it's like that thing of I want the bass that's been played at the bar every night for 60 years and I feel like these instruments despite being new that attention to detail in the Frets and the nut and Jimmy's Relic work and all those it and how to do the fingerboard yeah it's like the closest feeling thing in my experience as a new instrument to that which is what drew me that's where we're lucky too cuz me and you are both super vintage guys like yeah know what the should feel like I grew up in and player and touring musicians and I grew up in vintage shops holding real instruments and then owning them and touring with them and owning 6ds SGS and Gibsons and feeling what happens to them after 50 years and after 20 fret jobs right you know that's how I want our necks to feel like it's good it's like you've taken your 60p base or a jazz base done a fret job on it redone everything on the inside to make it like perfect but then here's the it's like redoing an engine in a a muscle car yep you're not like taking out the soul of it but you're just like helping it just like live forever yeah yes but then you get one of these and then it's just that next level of truly yeah and and it'll just break in and and it's like here's the start take it from here I know I can't wait I can't wait to like Mitch's gold vase looks crazy ridiculous like your suit melted into the back yeah like it was so I was wearing a black suit all the time then and like in no time I realized like there's gold on my jacket and I look at the back of the base and the back is like blackish gold cool and now it's faded to this like interesting greenish gold thing there's so much dirt on it that I refuse to clean off it's so funky it's changed all kinds of crazy colors it looks ridiculous oh I love that yeah I'm mixing all my own pigments too so it's like bronze powder and all that like original old stuff that like it's organic and it it changes over time it's not like we're not dipping these things in poly right right you know complete opposite like after a tour it's going to look different yes oh for sure great you know it becomes yours yeah right after Clinic it's going to look different exactly definitely exactly definitely cool yeah that's the fun stuff welcome to the family yeah wow thanks you guys thank you so much yeah of course well yeah let's let's get a party in for this CL tonight so audience thank you for joining us uh until next time yeah yeah thank you guys

Channel: La Bella Strings / E & O Mari Inc

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Length: 39min 6sec (2346 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 09 2024