welcome to smarm solutions today we're going to be talking about a unicorn this is probably one of the well next to the Glock 18 machine pistol probably one of the most unknown versions of the Glock pistol which is the model 17 M or the FBI gun now throughout the last year or so Lipsey's has had a sale they've been selling model 17 m/s for commercial purposes before they were never available and even talking with Glock it's hard to get a lot of really good information on 17 mm this doesn't mean they tend to want to talk about for some reason which you know there's a lot of companies out there who will have certain contracts for ariza they don't want to discuss them so when you're in my position you need to get around that need to go start talking to people all these people are involved with the procurement of them and and whatnot and just try to put all the pieces together and it has taken me quite some time to put those pieces together to find out the true story behind the Glock 17 M the g17 M has had videos on it of these ones have been available in the commercial market and like anything else the ones you're seeing in the commercial market or not necessarily the exact same thing as this what the FBI has so we're gonna do today is we're gonna go over the true history of the g17 M where it came from what changes were made why and now we're also gonna put together a time sort of a timeline of the release of some pistols that had the g17 M features they came out at or around the same time as the pistol went into service with the FBI then to the release of the g17 Gen 5 series agenda 5 series had many many of the features of the G 7 TM so we're gonna jump right into it now as you may or may not know the FBI was one of the first federal enforcement agencies to purchase Glock pistols if we go back to the time of the g20 2 or the 40-caliber when the FBI was looking at the potential replacing their revolvers with a 10 millimeter which unfortunately was a flop pistols had too much recoil they were too big and they looked at the 10 millimeter short which was the 40 now at that time Smith & Wesson was worth with Winchester on the 40 S&W cartridge well at that same time at shot show there were some 40 caliber cartridges that were made their way around and Gaston Glock was able to get his hands on a few of them and take them back to Austria and he quickly realized he was able to put the 40 caliber into his model 17 by just scaling some things upward and to add insult to injury although the Smith & Wesson and Winchester were working with the FBI who produced a 40 caliber Glock was able to beat Smith & Wesson to the punt by a couple of weeks of getting a 40 caliber pistol into the market the FBI then went and adopted he 40 S&W cartridge and the Glock 22 so Smith & Wesson sort of got bitch-slapped with that one and not being able to supply the pistol that they were working with the FBI on and throughout those years the FBI has continued to use the g 40 and whether it be the Glock 22 or Glock 23 well probably around probably around five years ago or seven years ago and that time period you started to see some major changes to go from 40 and 45 caliber and law enforcement back to 9 millimeter and a lot of that had to do with the modern ammunition and the FBI's firearms division they're conducted studies which basically showed that the nine-millimeter was just as effective now as anything else that was out there and the bigger is better is not necessarily the rule of law anymore that having cartridges with later recoil that a gun carried more rounds was more effective than these larger ones so the FBI decided we're gonna go back to 9-millimeter hence the commencement of their new weapons replacement program so the FBI request proposal came out in October of 2015 there was two guns really that came down to the final two and I leaned up it was a sig p320 and the the Glock 17 now the FBI had come up with a whole list of requirements that they wanted for in a pistol and there was no current Glock pistol that met all those requirements so Glock knew they were going to have to develop a pistol for the FBI so the pistol which would become the Kennedy was the g7 in the M stood for g17 military grant it was for a law enforcement but the g17 M that was and this was for military don't know the g17 was from October 2015 until it was adopted in 2017 it was an 85 million dollar contract to resupply the entire FBI with a new pistol contract was djf - 1 6 - 1200 - b zero zero zero six four or five nine printing of those of you who want to take a look at the original contract and see what the requirements were now oddly enough some of the first features that came up with the g17 m did make an appearance very very quietly with glock with the miles 42 and 43 now we have here's the Glock 42 Glock USA made pistol some of the main the main two features that would come up on this pistol which were utilized on g17 M improvement would first be the barrel we don't have a Glock marksman barrel which were gonna be getting into in detail very very soon and we also had the resign of the trigger mechanism and the safety which we'll go over as well the way the trigger return spring was - it was designed in the newer series was a much more durable much more durable than the standard one now again when we say durable when it comes to Glock that trigger return spring probably is the only part that really breaks on a clock the premium screen will snap off and I have experienced that during my time at laser max doing ten fifteen twenty thousand run endurance tests on pistols with major components and they'll be the only part that would break and that would be the spring where it would curve would snap off now mildly enough the pistol still will work all you just push the trigger manually forward then it would reset so it didn't stop the function the pistol had just altered the way that it worked but we're also talking about ten fifteen twenty thousand rounds in we're not talking about something that would be it quickly would quickly break this was a long term have you used that it would actually snap we would see that coming up on the Glock 42 and it walked 43 those two major changes of course we also have the elimination of these finger grooves as well which I small pencil you probably want that anyways so what we have here is the Glock Jena for this happens to be the one of the serrations on it but if you're like if this is the beginning point of what D what Glock went with there was some major changes at the FBI wanted this included having a tearaway grip in the front they wanted to eliminate the the grooves here also the area underneath here which is relatively uncomfortable they want to change the direction of this which was one of the things you happy I wanted as well also they want to make the pistol ambidextrous so you would have an ambidextrous slide stop on both sides which is also very important the trigger mechanism there were some modifications that were made to increase that as well as to make a trigger feel a little bit better by utilization of some of the new and DLC finishes the Glock is utilizing barrel was a major change that we were looking at FBI also had their own version it's nice that they wanted which we're going to take a look at as well so you can see all the areas that they wanted to take from the mouth gen gen 2 3 or 4 and make the changes for the the fbi's pistol now first off the pistol that we have here so far as I know this is a true FBI pistol the ones that we were seeing throughout Lipsey's if you were to look at those pistols and make some comparisons now I looked at the pistol that was put out by Lipsey's and I made a comparison to the Le agencies there was a couple le agencies entomb adopted 17 m after the FBI the pistols of that le agency had was identical to the Lipsey's and to the major things that were different were the nd LC finish on a trigger bar and and the connector was mandatory on the FBI pistols which have in 17m is that were sold to law enforcement didn't have that same thing with the Lipsey's those particular pistols didn't have that finish on it either another one was the way the slide stop lever all the FBI pistols that I've come across and once I have looked at none of them had the ambidextrous one with the extended latch here's what we see one of the ones that we're seeing with ellipses guns it has the extended all the FBI pistols that I have seen had this that's not to say that that wasn't done again I've had a very limited number of FBI pistols and I've been able to look at another very interesting aspect was where the pistols were made now several of the FBI pistols issue pistols I saw were made in the USA this particular one here is USA that I have here the Lipsey's were all made in Austria the pistols that were provided to the police departments who who bought the 17m those were Austrian made pistols the ones that I have seen so there's a interesting aspect I haven't really been able to narrow down for sure if the all of the FBI pistols were us-made or Austrian major or if they were mixed but the pistols were not the same with those small changes between the actual FBI and then the ones that were sold to the police departments over 70 days plus ellipses so let's go over this one and see what the major changes were so we look at the frame we're going to see that we have a modification to the way that trigger guard is here way your finger sits underneath in fact when you look at the Gen 4 you're able to see the differences in the shape of this area down here also with the magazine safety the ones on the FBI wanted they wanted it rounded here versus the squared off that are found on the jet and fives you see how this is more of a squared off and this is this is rounded when we look at the front the FBI wanted the ability to rip the magazine out if it got stuck whether because of debris or swollen or for whatever reason the FBI wanted to have that reason or had to have that done so you see how that was made on the FBI G 17m and not on the Gen 5 nor was it on the gen 4 that was specific to the FBI again ambidextrous now this is prior to the release of the Gen 5 where the FBI guns all had the ambidextrous slide stops on them now we take a look at the sights now the sights that you see on the g17 M versus even the g17 Gen 5 now both of these are in marital but as you will see the FBI American law had more of a rounded notch on the bottom where the commercial one had a squared off notch on here so you have the asian site versus the commercial site all of the atl the ones that went to the FBI would utilize this commercial ones would utilize this the front sights as you will see basically we're all the same they were tritium and they would have the orange ring around it which was much improved for visibility during daylight all tritium the magazines now the magazine's all utilize the new orange followers this was prior to the release of the Gen 5 now you have two different followers had these six and you had the seven so the seven would be the more recent ones and in the six would be the earliest of the orange ones they're just some differences and how how it engaged the slide catch but you had orange followers and also you had the rounded off edges now the g17 would take any Glock magazine only pistol the Glock ever produced it was unique and it would not take every magazine was the 19 X that had to have the specific magazine so the area we're going to talk about now is the barrel now we also have what Glock calls the marksman barrel plane you'll see that on the gen now what that is the original Glock barrels was a shallow rifling which meant there was no lancing roots being cut into the bullet to give it to the gyroscopic spin you had a narrower choke on the barrel and you had these flat edges that would give you a tighter gas seal and would push the the barrel down this is another area where this gets a little bit complicated because according to some sources I had the FBI they wanted a barrel that they would be able to have more identifiable to forensic firearms examiner's to identify the pistols now coming from my time as a fire engine firing the examiner the bullets that would be fired out of a hammer on a cold hammer-forged polygon barrel we did not have lands and grooms could be very very difficult to match on a microscope as you can see from the photograph one side we have a magnified view of a projectile that has a standard Glock barrel gen one two three and four and on the left that bottle 17m or the Gen 5 you will see how although still shallow rifling you had leading edges for lands and grooves there out of that under that projectile so you looked down the barrel of a g 17 m or a Gen 5 you're able to see those lands and grooves where you're not adding the other ones according to the FBI according to my FBI contacts this was for that reason well according to Glock Glock 2 says that this is due to an enhancement in the barrel for accuracy and so forth so we looked at the wonder of a microscope to see the difference there's absolutely no question that barrels are utilized on a g17 em and the G fives are far more easily identifiable to a forensic fireman examiner then the original black barrels were so whether the g17 n barrel was changed for forensics aspects or for accuracy aspects we can't get definitive answered but I will tell you from being able to look on a microscope there's absolutely no question that the lands and grooves and the impressions that are made on the bullets that come out of a G 17 mm or a Marshall barrel are identifiable to a frenzy for an examiner another change that was made that the barrel was you had a counter sunk in here to more protect the muzzle from being dropped and damage which is another really good enhancement that was done on it now when we look at the barrels depending on what gun that you have now the M barrels were marked that was the marksmanship barrel now the g17 M is this is prior to the release of the Gen 5 it's something we differentiate between a marksman barrel versus a standard Glock barrel you would have the M on the top it's instead of having anything else that was on there so if you look at the the hood of a standard lock Marilyn you're going to see where it will just say 9 by 19 and it would have a proof mark on it the FBI barrels were marked with just the M now some of the later versions of the 17 mm is that I have seen you would see a 5m well once you put the 5 on there that meant Gen 5 and that meant it was the marksmanship barrel but you would still see the M so it would differentiate between the fact that it was a G 17 M so those marks get a little bit confused between the standard without any characters after the 3 D versus the Abbott versus d 5m versus the 5 your standard Gen 5s are getting marked with 5 the barrels on the 17 M 19 mm there's also a 99 as well and the Gen fives were all the same now when we look at the guns that came out prior to the G 17 mm for commercial and prior to that of the the GE chapter 5 we had G 380 auto and we had a we had a proof mark on there that was more of a hexagonal we did have an additional symbol that came after 3 Yano but the barrels on the model 42 and 43 s were marksmen barrel and again at that time this prior to the release of the gen 5 so Glock didn't really make any kind of announcement to what this new improved barrel was so disassembly make sure it's time to you next thing we're going to take a look at is the frames look at the frames we have the g17 em on the left and we have the G Gen farm we had a Glock 17 Gen 5 on the right we're gonna look at some of the major differences that took place in between the two the biggest change between the 17m and the Gen 5 the FBI one had a trigger bar and a disc in a connector that were coated in the black end DLC finish this was a requirement of the FBI now if we go over to the Gen fives and also the Lipsey's g17 Adams as well as the ones that were produced for the law enforcement agencies and g70 names they did not utilize the end dlc finish on the trigger bar or connector they utilize the standard different part numbers as well and you'll see the part numbers on the photograph I believe it's three three seven five eight I can only see it on me this one you'll see it on the photograph you'll see those the differences in numbers which identify those parts another change that was made on the g17 M was the way that the slide lock worked instead of having a leaf spring that was utilized I'm the original take a look here and so utilizing the leaf spring that's been used forever a memo G one two three and four it's been modified with a spring it was placed underneath the slide lock on the g17 M and the Gen 5 s is certainly a more durable and some more reliable spring than the least bring that was used but that was a change as well now we might take a look closer up in here and to the way of the the mechanism works on the left here we have the g17 M would be the gym five you'll see that the four well one two three and four you'll see the spring in the rear of the turret apartment here you look at the newer one you'll see that the spring is forward which pulls forward rather than pulls rearward this spring system on here is far more durable and reliable than that which you will see on the original gen once through gym force this is the only part that would really have a break I'm a ton of testing than I had done on the Glocks over all those years and all those thousands and thousands of problems including one g17 Gen 2 that I had over 76,000 rounds documented I had broken two of these Springs over 76,000 rounds with that pistol this has all been made much much stronger so why do you guys who will say that just the you know the Jena 5 and the Gen 4 the same no they're not none of the components that you see in here are interchangeable between the Gen 4 and the Gen 5 loads are the 17 mm and the Gen 4 next one do is take a look at the slides now one of things that we're going to see who's been changed is the shape of the frame pin safety you'll see the original gens one through four utilized a round button each of the 17 mm and the Gen fives utilized a olestra longer longer bar type where this was slants to it to make it more durable and more reliable frame pin Locker gen forage in fiber utilize different Rico mechanisms also the overall length of the recoil spring and the g17 m and the g17 Gen 5 is longer than that of the Gen 4 which also these are not the exact same guns so there's a lot of changes that were made let me look at the barrels you BL see from the photograph you'll be able to see the countersunk or the modified muzzle crown of the g17 em and they Jenna 5 versus the standard looking at the frame also when you compare the g17 em to the original Gen 4 again well we'll take another look at some of the changes that were made by the FBI if you look at the g17 em on the bottom and the g17 Gen 4 on the top you'll see that the magazine well is much more flared than that of the jet and floor this was also requirement was made by that of the FBI another one of the change that was made on a G 17mm versus the gens one through four was the shape of the firing pin or the striker now you'll be able to see from this from the photograph that Jen's one through Gen 4 have a Weiser fortuyn forensics as a elliptical shaped firing pin there was more of that of a spear he came down as a spear shaped now the g17 now M and the Gen fives switched to a round profile versus a elliptical shape now the exact reasoning for this was not known the first fire technician was concerned the only time we had ever seen any issues with the ignition or anybody whose youth clocks a lot as if you were to use ammunition it was designed for a submachine gun that had extremely hurt primers here in the United States if we were to see that type of ammunition the Glocks generally would not fire them even with the shape of the firing pin be more elliptical and you know it was more of a central type impact on that the utilization of the striker spring was not good enough now overseas if you were the other country Glock has available different type of strikers Springs every Coral Springs that would give you the additional power that you would need for that ammunition but they were never available here in the US I was able to see but from a forensic standpoint it was interesting because Glocks were buried there was a class characteristic of the elliptical firing pin the only two guns that utilized that type of Franklin was the early sources the Sigma's that were copied from the Glocks and Glock pistols now if you were to look at what we see you're seeing hemispherical firing pin with this year which now looks more of the Smith & Wesson Sigma s wve later on down the road that was of course back in the mid 90s so now you have different class characteristics of black Gen 5 verses 1 through force so that was one of the changes that we saw as well now the FBI maintained the live coding cartridge indicator by there by the extractor now the face that we see on the newer Glocks as well as the FBI guns as the NDL see faces near diamond-like finish this is the same finish that is now utilized by both Glock Austria and block USA now we've covered this in a video prior to this of the Glock Austria vs. clock USA which got are better now there's some reality here those of you have not had a chance to visit the clock factory which I imagine most of you haven't to be able to go see us there in quality there is no difference between the guns are coming out of Austria or of the US the machines that are utilized in Austria are the exact same machines that were brought to Glock USA the machines that are at Glock USA are our stream machines set up by the same Austrian engineers the materials are utilized the clock USA those materials are not record in the United States the materials are utilized at glock USA come from austria austria has two factories over there one for polymer one per steel so a glock is constant shipments over of those materials and prefer as the slides are concerned the the end ELC finish this is the exact same finish that's being utilized in austria is this here now if you go back to the earlier days of Glock you'll know that there's a cyanide based finish in the tenifer finish that could not be done here in the US and block switched to switched finishes it was done both in Austria and in the United States so there's not a disconnect so whether your Glock was made in Austria or the US there's not one that when you look at the guns is any better than the other they're both made by the same machines the same people the same degree of quality control and the same materials you look at the shape of the slag you'll also see that there is a taper on the g17 end which was also referred to where was it was required as an anti snag method where you have a squared off version that of the G's one through general for the gen fires also would have this as well now some tough people would complain because the frame was not modified the same way as the slide was but you know everybody's gonna have something to complain about whatsoever so I guess doesn't really matter but you will see some of the newer frames you see that there is sort of a difference the way that's shaped as well you do have one 1913 rail slot on the bottom luggage of the wall all the Clarkes that had the rails bottom the durability of the barrels for the glock pistols now for the FBI they are mandatory replaced at 3,000 rounds that all changed very quickly with the requirements that were set up by the g17 em for the FBI which was increase in over 300% in service life and that was a lot to deal with the use of the NDL see finish on the barrel as well as the the new marksman barrel so you're looking at 10,000 round white expectancy for the FBI before they would change the barrels out on the new g17 pistols the new g17 M's reliability now the lock pistols are known for their reliability they're being drawn between failures our legendarium during summit testing for the FBI there was a really incredible means round between failures that were tested and we're seen now the original model 17 have a being around between a failure of 11,000 rounds one of the G 19 m/s that was tested had it made around between a failure of 30,000 rounds in between failures so you're looking at 11,000 rounds to 30,000 rounds which showed an incredible sense of durability that the newer pistols were created now we also have to talk about service life there's a difference between a mandatory service life of service life change our part versus its actual wearing out for instance you're looking at the FBI saying we're gonna change out barrels every 3,000 rounds or every 6,000 rounds or whatnot it's not dependent upon that barrel not being any good it's just being this is a interval that they use for change of their maintenance those barrels are still very very good those of you who use these guys excessively you're looking at 10 12 15 thousand rounds easy on a clock barrel now as we talk about the Lipsey's guns that were sold commercially they were sold both g17 M's and G 19 m/s now after the FBI sale there were some additional sales that were made to law enforcement which included in the Atlas Police Department South Carolina Highway Patrol and Ontario Provincial Police they also adopted the g17 mms and from what I understand from talking to some officers at some of these departments the Lipsey's is d-generation pistol that they have is the 17 m with the non ND LC finish on the trigger bar and connector and those were austrian made guns now most of the guns again i've seen there were FBI were it made in the USA so we're looking a little timeline right here of when things were released now the gen 5 was released in January of 2018 the gen had no n DLC finish that of the FBI the sights the g17 em used the America low GL 846 which is the asian sights the Gen 5 so were sold commercially where the Amerigo 5 5 1 7 which were the standard sights given the FBI had the you notch the standard hand disk we had a square notch ellipses were again they were nearly identical to the FBI they did have those few changes the one area that I have not been able to confirm is which FBI pissed were the ones in which had the standard slide lock versus the extended all the FBI ones again I had seen had standard so that's something that hopefully we'll be able to get some feedback from some of the audience who's had access to some of these FBI guns the way the barrels were marked as we stated the FBI guns had a nine by nineteen three deep logo and then in the EMA the ellipses and the ones that were released after the Jenna five would have the 5m s now the M was middlemen military it meant marksman barrel and when it came down to the time when the ellipses belter came out you had to Gen fives that were already out which are already marked five Gen 5 means marksmanship barrel so overall the model 17mm has definitely been a mystery we they were very much rare scene there were some pictures leaked out over the internet of some of the earlier trial guns and it was quite surprising when Lipsey's did introduce those particular guns now where those guns came from we're not sure where they overall runs from police contracts or they ones that were just made that missus is a special environment of g17 ng 19 M pistols or not quite sure you can speaking o'clock they don't really want to offer up too much information on what they are there's absolutely no question that any 17 m or 19 m is going to be a collector's pistol I definitely don't see those as being part of any kind of our of a regular lineup now if you were to have as a shooter you can pair 17 m to a gent I buy the Gen 5 the Gen 5 is a basic gun it's a shooter it's the combat gun they're a dime a dozen the 17 M again there's not a lot of those released to the commercial market we definitely have seen through my research that there are some differences between the actual FBI guns versus the ones that were leased in a commercial market there's a difference between the FBI guys versus the model 70 M is that were sold on the police department but we definitely have a transitional done which we had development between the Gen 4 and the Gen 5 it was released and sold to the FBI prior to the gen 5 that technology was used on the G 42 and G 43 but it was very very quiet so we did get a preview of the Jena 5 and the 17m prior to its release so I hope you all do enjoy this video this was this was quite a while in the making was quite a bit of research that went into it because this is one of the few times you couldn't I could just go to my buddy's o'clock and say hey give me the details it's it was one of those ones where they just did not want to talk about it those of you who want to update your pistols with the nd LC parts you're not gonna get them from the lock those are highly controlled components so there's no those are not for sale you can't get those I don't know if there's anybody else who's putting out an NDA LC like to finish where they could make modifications and then useless parts for you I'm not sure but the actual FBI parts are not going to happen those of you who want the proper markings for the barrel you have to look at a timeline from which everything was produced prior to the release of the the Gen 5 you had the M marked the hoods of the barrels on the G 1719 hems and then you had a transitional where you did have the fives the five means Gen 5 which is marksman but you still had the M on there as well because the slides were marked G 17m and then of course now you have just the fives on there and we have seen some 1917 in 19m is that were us stay mate as well one I have here this is a USA made one this one does have all the M DLC parts than everything I sort of got lucky be able to get my hands on this one but the ellipses ones I did had one of those as well and you can look at these two pistols and you could see the difference the ellipses had that the five on the barrel was a Gen 5 barrel this one was prior to the release of the Gen 5 so it just had the eminence so this was an FBI era so there are some slight differences but it is one heck of a pistol it also goes to show that the FBI has been using Glock for many many years now and they continue it does know to show also that that pendulum has swung back tonight miliar that the the bigger ISM better and it was based off the FBI's own testing that showed that they found with the new our ammunition there was no benefit to having the heavy recoil over that larger bullet and less capacity over having the pistol it was a size of the Glock 17 which anybody could handle versus going with the larger frames of the 20 or the 10 millimeter which is no way we receive utilized by a normal law enforcement just that's the guys were just too big the recoil of the 40 was certainly that much more of the nine millimeter there wasn't there was not a there's not a benefit to having that bigger bullet the heavier recoil any longer with the current production aviation history becoming more and more important of shot placement than it is just having a bullet that we expects gonna hit and so I'm just gonna fall over like the traditional people feel about the 45 the knockdown power those of us who've been involved in forensics and those of us who have been involved in terminal ballistics realize that we've told people for years there's no magic projectile it has to do with shot placement and those also seen wounds have seen also that you don't see that much of a difference between a 45 caliber hole and a 9 millimeter caliber hole it's shot placements where that bullet goes especially if you're restricted to Full Metal Jacket and that's a whole different ballgame I carry 245 for many years I carried a G 30 and I've now switched over to a G 45 on IML meter with a federal HST and I feel just I did not consent are done whatsoever I'm carrying better animation I'm carrying a pistol that's easier to shoot and that just seems to be the trend across the law enforcement throughout throughout the country right now I hope you all enjoyed this video please click like please subscribe me even better share thank you
