The Endurance MINDSET To UNLOCK Your Athletic Potential | Cam Wurf x Rich Roll Podcast

if you haven't done any training you will not do it in a race yeah it's that simple no you just got to put the hours in and then it all comes together on race day right well you know what it doesn't you know it doesn't I'm gonna say that today's guest is the world's most versatile professional endurance athlete his name is Cam wurf this is a guy who has distinguished himself at the highest most elite level in three distinct Sports first in rowing where he represented Australia in the 2004 Athens Olympics but then he turns his sights on professional cycling and over the years becomes a super domestic for team sky and now team ineos he's famous for not only leading team Ennis to Victory on the cobblestones of Perry rubé last year but celebrating that win by going out and running a half marathon right after the race he can set bike course records at the world's most prestigious Iron Man's and he can even run a 245 marathon after a 2.4 mile swim and a 112 mile bike if I'm capable of dreaming something then it's possible an athlete can do anything I don't really believe that he can dream something that isn't possible cam doesn't ever seem to get tired he absolutely loves training he's always smiling and I just got so many questions final note we recorded this episode quite some time ago all the way back in February so since then cam has bookended an impressive slew of races for ineos with a Podium at Iron Man Lanzarote and it seems he's just getting warmed up so strap in and let's do it this is me in the great cam Warf this episode is brought to you by timeline nutrition which is this new skin health line of products check it out you can get 10 off your first order today a couple of guys met us for a ride one guy Belgian guy works at the Rafa shop I can't remember his name but I feel terrible because he he rode against me in 2001 at the junior worlds he was in the Belgian four and the going into it we'd done a couple of lead up Junior right we were the two top ranked Crews everyone was you know was like who's gonna win and we're in the semi-final and we're on the start and just one we're in Germany and one of those random storms like you know they just they have those sirens on the end of lakes in Europe and like they know that something's coming in so they've worn the siren it goes and next thing this thing just like rips through there's white caps everywhere and stuff getting blown all over the place one came one was coming and our coach could see it he was trying to get my attention because I was in the stroke set of the boat to like pretend I'd broken something in the boat to get a delay and I was like he's waving you know I was like you sort of ignored anyway sure after race started we got about 100 meters and boom this thing hit us and we were all quite small like 150 pound kids and we're racing Romania Belarus that were you know 300 pound men yeah probably with fake passports and uh sure enough like they just sat back and leaned into it and just plowed through this storm and you know made the final we missed out by one spot and the same thing happened to Belgium in the next Heat and um or sorry in the heat before because they'd headed towards the end of their race and so we ended up both in the B final but we beat them in the B final and uh he reminded me of that you know we should have been first and second that year I was like yeah well you know we were seventh and eighth [Laughter] so this Belgian guy who works at the Rafa shop here in Houston yeah is that like the first time you've seen him in 25 years or whatever yeah it was it was 2001 it was 22 years ago wow and and not only that but I'd done some efforts before he arrived and I mean they weren't hard they were like some zone three just efforts I was doing around 410 watts and he said how do you feel you know at your age like he's obviously working I'm still in different sports and and he and I said you know what it's funny like even when I was rowing and we'd get on the bike like if you could do 400 watts for like 20 minutes at you know 70 kilos 150 pounds that was pretty a pretty solid effort I said well mate 22 years later it still is that feeling has not changed and I said I can't even believe I'm still doing it but uh I am and I and you know and I and I apply myself the same way I did 22 years ago right you know I I just love it I love I love exercising yeah and you're what are you 39 yeah no 39 39 but you're you're still improving every year yeah um you had a cup you know during covid you were sort of angled for a Peak Performance but there were no races yeah but you've bounced back and you put in your best uh Kona performance this past year it just so happened to be an incredible field and all kinds of Havoc broke loose with yeah not just the Norwegians but Sam laidlow yeah you improved on your bike course record by three seconds that he demolished me but you know it was almost like I was watching the live stream yeah and you were barely brought up in the whole conversation it was insane which is I mean that's how you want it you know I mean when I took the record I took it off Norman Stadler who had stopped racing you know centuries ago and Sam what impressed me most was I was there and I was powerless to do anything about it you know I was I mean in admiration and and of what he did as much as everyone else watching I think you know I was really pleased for him he's a lovely he's a lovely guy at the at the end of it all and that was uh his first Kona right that was his first Kona and the Norwegians their first Kona yeah to come in their first time out yeah basically rewrite the rule book completely there's all this lore about how you can't do that yeah right and they're just like I don't care about that like I'm just gonna go in and crush and they did yeah uh how does that I mean for somebody who's who's been so enthusiastically pursuing a win at Kona for so long yeah does that now feel daunting like it's definitely a seismic shift in where the sport is headed yeah I mean not really it's uh it's kind of getting towards the level I assumed you know you'd want to get to and I've been aiming to get to and it I thought about this on the drive out like thinking back you know through what I've done and I've forgotten who it was you had on here but it was a guy talking about I'm in Canada and he didn't get to really speech that he planned to read um I listened to that I was running in Maryland I remember my wife's families from over there I was in the middle of nowhere at the podcast on and I I guess it was it was it sort of resonated with me because I've never feel like I've been able to empty the tank in an eye man and through a range of reasons the first time I won one was in 17 and and I'd qualified for Kona a few weeks before in the last qualifying race and we'd already planned to like do the Iron Man Wales because it helped for the next Kona to qualify so we like bugger you might as well go anyway just do some training anyway sure enough it was a horrible day I was miles in front of the bike I was basically able to walk the run and win and great and then obviously came to Kona that was when I first broke the bike course record and kind of established myself in the sport 19 I won twice you know the first one was in Port Macquarie and it was the first time I could run properly so I was running quite well got nervous halfway through because I was running quicker than I've ever run so I started eating too much so then I had to slow down because I had stomach cramps you know so that kind of I still won but it was nothing then I did Iron Man Italy later that year and I was in I made you know ready for Kona but it was three weeks before and we basically did it to test a new bike but I was sort of so far in front and felt so good in the first half of the run it was like I might as well finish it off the gas but yeah I took my foot off the gas but still run 244 I think I went 7 45 that day and then Kona was three weeks later and while physically I think it was maybe still a good decision as far as training goes what we didn't counter was it's on the other side of the world travel so by the time I had a few days off before Italy traveled to the other side of the world dealt with jet lag dealt with different climate all of a sudden you get to the start line and it was like a month since you've trained you know and I was fifth which was a grind out you know it was the best result I've ever had but I finished it going gosh you know I think we got that a bit wrong anyway and then of course we had um you know Copenhagen in 21 you know we had covert then covert hit so it's Copenhagen in 21. great Ray miles in front on the bike had Lionel quite a ways behind 10 11 minutes I was like okay this would be fun I just watched keep showing gold at the Olympics in the marathon I love the way he just booted away from everyone so I'm gonna go nice and slow and then when Lionel gets within you know 30 40 seconds I'm just going to Ping it and he caught to that I don't know three four K from the end so then I just went for it and put like five minutes into him you know it was it's quite comfortable then Kona got canceled right and so you feel like basically the point being that you feel like you've never been able to drop the hammer and have a race that you're capable of having no like the one I've envisaged having and then finally this year with Kona you know I had the chance to train until the week before I felt like this was going to be the moment to finally like get it all out you know and and then uh yeah it just didn't happen right well you shared with me something just before the podcast about what was actually going on that I don't know if people know about that no I haven't said anything because you don't want to make an excuse and it's not an excuse it's just you know it's amazing how it it was covered you know and and I I got sick three four days before I started noticing it I think as people know I'm a bit of a Nutter for training I love training and that last week is for me is the worst week you're not meant to do much and I found myself cutting not doing much short you know it was very uncharacteristic couldn't sleep properly I I said yeah I knew there was something wrong I you know I was taking paracetamine whatever anyway I was like look if I can be on that start I'm going to be on there you know and sure enough I raced yeah I was I was off the pace I was never able to get into the race it's quite achy and and didn't it was it was a real you know another grind um and the result was what it was and it you know a couple of days later the team you know sort of encouraged me to do a test um because they were you know we had a carer there at the race Marco who had sensed there was something a bit up and um yeah sure enough had covered you know and I was I was negative a couple of days later and I guess the thing for me was I'd been so diligent for that whole period because with the team and the bubble you know you can't you know go outside like I I'd sacrifice swimming and running and stuff at races which was I was meant to be able to do as preparation for all that time to make sure I didn't get anyone else you know risk getting anyone else sick or bring it into races and never had covert I'd done hundreds of tests maybe thousands you know and then when it was finally my chance like it was finally my moment you know I I guess I got over there and just got so excited to be amongst it all and and I'd never had it so I guess I was maybe a bit more susceptible I'd train really hard I was probably really on the razor and and it got me you know it had um but uh you know and afterwards you're like ah I mean initially after the race I was like well that's really there was a real tough pill to swallow obviously what Sam did did what the boys did I wasn't even part of the race I didn't even feel like I was involved yet I was still 11th and went eight hours um I you just I didn't really know I was sort of I guess well blow cycling you know that's just get stuck into this again let's just focus on one thing but then when I found out I had covert I was like well you know what that's not that bad and um yeah I mean it's encouraging actually you you you you I mean it's it's a weird thing because you go eight hours you break the bike course record yeah that's a phenomenal effort yeah but you had to go under eight hours to break the top ten yeah it's just an unbelievably fast feel but then to discover even if it was a low-grade version of covid that you were competing with covid yeah once again you've been unable to be at your best yeah when it matters most I think I said to you like I ran with the boy the Norwegian guys a couple of days later and that was sort of when I figured it must have been something because Christian made a comment of how come good I looked you know he was running like he could barely move and I was if it looks so deceiving with that guy true true very true but it was just so stiff and sorry could barely walk and he said you know you're not even you don't even look tired and I said well to be honest I I just didn't feel like I could get out of first gear all day you know I just wasn't in the race I couldn't get to you guys I couldn't be a part of it and didn't know why and it was that night that I did the test and yeah so of course you know I was disappointed I really wanted to fight back quickly you know I was I was negative quickly which meant that I'd probably had it some time before the race so it'd probably been affecting me for longer than I've I've realized or I'd been able to ignore and wanted to do another race at the end of the year you know Arizona Israel you know Cozumel something you know just to really have that that big tank empty you know and um yeah I tried to get back into training and just every time I tried to train I just get sick again so you know I was worried about chronic fatigue fortunate it wasn't that that just I got some advice said you just gotta rest you know it's not smart to do an Iron Man with that virus um so you read to and hope that you haven't done any damage you know that was the big thing for the team they were worried about your heart and did quite extensive tests on me once I was healthy and I seemed fine and and to be honest now I feel fantastic you know I'm I'm able to train at a level I haven't trained at in the past and yeah it's just uh hopefully that me getting covered was the end for everyone that was like the page Turner for the for the rest of the world we can all move on now okay thank you for giving the world permission I took one for the team that's good to know I mean when when you say you know the team was concerned or the team did this you're talking about ineos which is the cycling team that you're that that you compete on behalf of so yeah um you know just to kind of create some contacts for people who don't know who you are uh you compete for the world's greatest cycling team the most successful most dominant professional World Tour cycling team you also compete as an individual as an elite Iron Man triathlete and you seem to do this with with it appears relative ease and parody like it's not as if one is a side hustle and one's the full-time job yeah they're kind of equal footing I you know I feel like you have perhaps a greater passion for Iron Man particularly Kona and Triathlon um but it's the stability of being part of this team and and perhaps the camaraderie and the kind of foundation that that provides you and your family and also your training yeah to kind of you know root you in something so that you know you can do all these other things as well like it's a complicated puzzle I'm sure yeah but you're the only one who's doing this yeah are you the I think you're the only one who's ever done yes right I mean there was tolansky but he he stopped yeah he stopped and you know he was a pro cyclist for slipstream for I don't know six or seven years right yeah I became a pro Iron Man yeah you're the only one to try to do them simultaneously yeah and as far as I know yeah and I uh my Big Goal you know sort of you know uh last year for example of 2021 was uh to win a race and win an Iron Man you know and I was able to do it or be part of a winning team you know part of a winning like guys winning the first year in 2020 I was never part of a win with the team you know we had a bunch of seconds even second in the world to be rich in car repairs like was a great fight with jumbo vizma but didn't win and then so 21 I was like right I want to be part of you know a win and thanks to Tom Peacock at his first win and I was there for that um and then obviously Bunch followed that and then I went in Copenhagen you know and then last year in 22 part of more team victories but didn't quite you know I couldn't win one myself I was second in the one-eyed man I did aside from the world championships in um in uh in Victoria yeah inventory against Spain right I got beaten by 30 seconds but you know that was I'll see your point you know they had me actually the week before it was the Tour de France started the weekend before they had me in Copenhagen for some VIP you know stuff but also covert was still quite Rife like just in case you know if they had to throw me in I was there so I obviously wasn't there preparing for an Iron Man and then when I didn't get to race the tour it's like wow you got to qualify for Kona now okay there's a race next weekend off you go so rest home throw all the stuff in the car off I went and I almost pulled it off you know I actually had a pretty good swim you know a good lead on the bike and was nursing myself through the run and got caught in the final part but um yeah I've learned that it you know the the guys are very very good in both Sports and so I need to be more I'm not sure what the cup compartmentalize I mean that's mental but basically dedicate myself specifically to each you know at certain times to to do it properly because otherwise I just become okay at both and and I don't want that like I can go to a bike race and do my job for the team and you know Gene I had this conversation in training the other day yeah Tour de France yeah yeah he's out here training with me and it was if I if I'm on the front or you know protecting the guys or helping them for 5K longer than we thought that's great if I'm there 5K less they work it out you know it's it's not really it's no big deal take a break it's me that knows whether I gave it all and did it actually made a big difference or not like me personally so when I don't do a good job you know if I have been you know kind of doing too much running or whatever and it's affected me you know racing on the bike it's actually a loss because racing on the bike provides an amazing opportunity to push my body way harder than I would like to because it's one of those Sports where you just have to go as fast as the guy in front which is something I feel can be a weapon to take back to you know Triathlon and periodically I've been able to get that right over the last few years but not consistently and so and a lot of that has been because of this whole covert thing with the bubble I haven't been able to go swimming I haven't been able to go to the hotel gym and go for a run during the race see just a small you know even just a small one just enough to keep as you know assuming you know the swimming thing has got to be tough right like you're in Europe you're doing these races you're not you know like you're not gonna find a pool all the time no and and swimming's the one you need to keep the fuel for and so for me just being able to get in the pool even just at the end of the day for a kilometer or two it would make a massive difference to having 10 days off because otherwise you tend to go home and it's like you're starting all over again for someone like myself without a swimming background and anyway and so again I was thinking though but it's bizarre because even on a bad day I still swim with like you know Lionel or Sam long or kinlay or these guys and but I don't actually yeah it's when I'm not don't even get to train you know I know it's insane so insane that you you can basically the way that I Envision it and it's probably not like this but it's sort of like you're in Europe doing whatever you're doing with the team uh and and you're sort of on standby as a domestic or a super domestic you don't always know if you're going to be enlisted to do this race or that which makes it difficult for you to plan your race schedule with respect to Triathlon it's kind of a standby thing right so you're always sort of training but not really sure what you're training for yeah and then you're like okay well I'm gonna scoot out and do this Iron Man and you you parachute into some race yeah after not having swum at all yeah but somehow you're able to stay in contact with the lead group yeah water yeah like what is going I mean the French skills for me to get from selecting these Bunch skills the craziest example maybe there's a crazier one but the one that struck me was in was it I get all the dates confused but right before St George you're a pair like the most insane brutal one-day cycling race there is yeah and you're you know on the lead out in the cobbles basically blazing the pass for the team yeah and and really set the team up for a win yeah and then you basically split from there and drop in on St George yeah and Lead that race on the bike toad you basically towed Christian the whole way and set him up for the win yeah but the fact you didn't even think that you were going to be doing that race right because you were supposed to be doing something else for ineos yeah yeah so you weren't even really preparing for that well I actually had to go to Africa the following week so it's like can I feed it in or not and I decided last minute well I can so I'll go so I came here then I went to Namibia and then she did a it was another corporate bonding thing they wanted me to do um over there but you know it's funny like back to when I stopped you know I was doing a similar role and Peter Sagan was my teammate at Cannondale and and I guess I got to I guess I was 30 31 and I was like wow my productive years as I like I'm this is great I'm a domestic you know I'm a big team and blah blah blah but I don't want these I don't want to waste my productive years doing this so that's when I moved to the US I still had a contract Fortune with Canada which they honored and um gave me a bit of time to you know find what I wanted to do I really wanted to work in finance I met a bunch of different people in that field and finally found you know a place I wanted to work down in Century City um with a real estate investment firm Mosaic was just sort of starting out and um anyway it was I did I was there for a little bit you know starting to study and Ethan the the the founder of it all you know he said why would you you know you could be in sport you know do you want to go back to me rowing do you want to go back to so I was like no you know I'm really happy doing this and I'd done a couple of triathlons for a bit of fun and so I said oh but I enjoy this and as only an American would he said I used to live in Kona he said you can beat those guys I used to watch that race every year you're better than them and I'm thinking mate I've done a couple of triathlons for fun like only an American would say that to you and so I kind of you know I took one seriously it was Arizona as a pro I said if I can get off the bike you know quicker than yarn had had set the world record in Roth the swimming bike combined I'll think about learning to run and anyway it just sort of snowballed from there I was able to do that I just hobbled through the run I didn't even bother training for the run for that one it was all about the swim in the bike I went back to Australia for a bit of a break you know before I'd come back and I thought I'd just get into Finance you know got a random call from Chris Froome to do some training down there because he was holidaying I thought why not and um yeah if you're a Gen X dude like me then skin care can feel a little indulgent but I actually wish that I didn't wait until my 50s to take care of my skin a little bit better because hey it's our largest organ it's essential to health and it's our first line of defense against environmental aggressors the fact is as we age our mitochondria generate less energy so anything that you can do to boost these little power plants is absolutely huge timelines worked it out in their nutrition products and now they figured it out with skin care cracking the code with this new product called mitopure which is a patented version of a postbiotic that they've discovered helps rejuvenate mitochondria and promotes healthy skin it's packed by 15 years of clinical research they've got three products the day cream the night cream and the serum I've been testing them and using them I'm really enjoying it I do think my skin looks better and it looks more refreshed it feels more refreshed and you should check it out so to get you started timeline is offering 10 off your first order click the link in the description below and use the code Rich Roll to the offered all right back to the show just so I so the audience is clear let's let's like really establish what exactly happened here which is essentially that you you start out as a rower you're from Tasmania yeah you go to the Olympics in 2004 yeah in the um the lightweight double skull right Olympian yeah right Pinnacle of sport for anybody yeah uh somehow you reinvent yourself as a professional cyclist and then you spend how many years like you know a handful of years as a pro you bounce around between a couple teams but you're on Cannondale liquid gas like that's that was like the main team you were on right yeah and and from what I understand there were some sort of discontentment around like you know how the whole kind of like Pro cycling thing operates and and you were feeling dissatisfied with that and kind of hung it up yeah and that's where the finance thing came in yeah so you're thinking my athletic career is over yeah the boss says get the [ __ ] back out there what are you doing yeah and uh you do a couple triathlons and you go back home and you're riding with Richie port or you know one of the greatest cyclists there is there are you're training with him yeah and you it was an intimacy yeah Tasmania yeah and then he goes on to win tour down under shortly thereafter right and you kind of set him up for that yeah you get this call from an old rowing coach who's now a cycling coach yeah who's like come ride with Froome yeah you know the the guy at the moment he just won the Tour for the third time right yeah and then you set him up for more success well you won all three in a row after he started training with me yeah you're like the go-to guy like if you want to win a grand tour you got to call up cam because he's the secret weapon yeah so now it's it's Port it's it's uh it's um Froome yeah and now it's it's Garen and you know these are the these are the these are the top guys in the world and these are the these guys choose to train with you you're the guy they want to train with yeah so the question is like what is it about you why is it that they want to spend you know all these hours all this time like what what are you contributing to those guys and what are you getting out of that that is nourishing for you but also nourishing for them and creating all of this success well I guess the big the big thing is we're not competitors you know I mean I I've always been friends with a bunch of guys from other sports uh Jimmy Johnson for example NASCAR you know and and we I've learned so much from him and he asked me so many questions I guess because it's not confrontational he knows I'm not going to get in the car or I might get in the car but I'm not going to drive as fast as him likely I know he's not going to do an Iron Man as quick as I can and the same with these guys you know I mean they're training for something completely different but I guess the endurance element there's a company part you know I mean I've got a lot of stories so I can fill in a lot of blank time so I think the guys enjoy that but I've always been very good at training you know and that was part of why I quit the first time because I could train I know like the best in the world and I know now because I'm still training with those guys but I could never race like that you know I didn't figure out the sport you know I just didn't know how to apply they were trending to train just because you like training I love training I love exercising I mean I call myself a professional exerciser and so you know that was the thing I went and trained with through me there you know it was obvious that I still had a bit under the hood so then they were like listen you want to come back to cycling I said no I'm interested in Triathlon okay I will support you with that so you know obviously spend some time with freemium 17 then 18. Garrett wants to win the Tour and he wanted to he was thinking about coming to LA because I told him during camps the previous year how great it is here yeah so the team said oh Cameron can you go and train with him so you know for sure sure enough fast forward he wins the tour that year you know and and it was just you should get like bonused for that yeah you know what I mean the thing is and and this is what Chris said to me we're in so in 17 we he just won the Tour and in between the tour and the Welter which he obviously won as well we were in chatel training and we'd had a great camp and at the end of that I had one last crack at qualifying for Kona that was in that was in Sweden the following weekend after we finished that little camp and the last thing he said you know before I he said you don't have to do anything more than you're capable of you know like just believe in yourself mate like you belong at this level and and it was and so training with these guys day in day out you wonder why I think I can just like I mean you'd think I could I could do that going to I'm not sure what's a great example but maybe the Malibu try or you know the El Segundo local Triathlon like it's one thing to do what I do and then on the bike and then go and jump into that but I think oh yeah okay I'll go on Race through Bay and then I'll go to the world championships and I don't even think about it because I'm surrounded by these guys right you know at this level the best the best of the best and I've really never known any different it was the same in every sport that I've done you know I've always been surrounded by by the best guys and uh yeah and I guess it's nice that I finally found a sport that I'm competitive at and and it is all about me and if I think about sort of what's happened in the past years with the team like you said there's no schedule and I don't think that's worked as well as we thought because the idea of me coming back to the team was I'd be at a training camp with the guys I'd be maybe stronger than a lot of the guys on the camp it's like oh wish we could just take Cameron you know and I'm like well you know I'm happy doing Triathlon blah blah blah Dave eventually said listen we'd really like you to be on standby and I thought well that sounds great but the team manager but the problem sort of that eventuated the last few years was then I was all of a sudden getting called into everything because it's like oh Cameron's free is he oh we'll take him oh Cameron's at home oh great well he can come and do this and all of a sudden I don't get to train properly you know I kind of as I said I go home and I'm restarting my swimming I'm restarting my running you know there's no real consistency of blocks so to be brutally honest the last couple of years I haven't really felt like I've been able to put the work in or perform at the level I've wanted to in either sport it sort of hasn't been quite like it used to be you know are you and so now they've sort of the team have said right what are we going to do better this year and and they're going to limit my racing ideally to One race a month so I get the time to train you know train with the guys push the guys push myself you know get called into a race to to fill a gap and whatever and and hopefully finally get to marry these two you know Sports because I I love doing what I do now with the guys but I think that's because I get to go and do my own thing right you know all that all the time I mean the pressure like Kona I mean regardless of the why I didn't perform it it's it's still it's all on you you know and that there's nothing that can help you with that feeling you are all alone you know if it's great great you get to feel all that when things go I just now feel like I almost wished I wasn't on the team because a lot of it was because I felt like I let so many people down you know I mean I did what I could but I felt like I let all these people down I felt horrible and um and now you know I wouldn't want that all the time like to be a leader in cycling and then have to go and do that yeah that would be pretty intense balance you answered the question that I had which is you know whether you in the back of your mind you think maybe I should let go of the pro cycling thing and if I just went all in on Triathlon and get those consistent blocks yeah in with the swimming and the running and and give it the focus that it deserves yeah um you could you know like how much better could you be yeah right it must it must you must think about that I do but I also in my mind I picture doing it the way I'm doing it I just haven't had a chance chance to do it you know like I'm going to the UAE next week and like I know there's swimming pools at every hotel we stay on the water a lot of the days so you know the way I see it is of great I get to race at the highest level of cycling I'm going to be physically you know cardiovasively pushed I just need to go and find some water to flop around him for 30 minutes just to keep the motor pattern to then apply that Fitness to swimming you know the week after when I go home um you know there'll be a treadmill I'll be able to go for a run you know it's like a one-week training camp with a cycling focus and then when I go home right I can switch it back into you know and and honestly the level of pro cycling now is it's like Iron Man it is so high yeah I mean people say what's the biggest difference when you came back and you've got to remember I didn't race for six years until they convinced me to go back again and things changed a lot first thing that was funny was I just had cycling socks on you know regular cotton whatever you know like because that's what you always wore I got to the start line of my first race and I looked around everyone has their own socks on every single person on every single team and I thought wow that's that's different that's already a change yeah and they're they're cycling is they're sticklers for their etiquette when it comes to Kit yes yeah so I definitely were I definitely stood out but the the one back in the old days there was much more controlled you know it was more of a gentle you know gentleman's agreement a lot of days so there was a lot of days that were pretty cruisy and now I and so it's just like base training all the time pretty much and I used to you know you chat away to your mates you hadn't seen you know I was on an Italian team so you love seeing Aussies and whatever I don't talk to a single person when I'm racing now it's so intense I mean back in those days was like right we all take it easy to the feed Zone we all get some food in the tank and then we race the last half of the race or the last third you know and it get but now it can kick off at any moment you know a bit like Triathlon you know someone can make the break at any moment and you don't know if they're going to come back you know with the likes of well-man art van der Pol I mean they just and Sargon you know started but he was sort of on his own tangent now there's a bunch of guys like that and the races are just so unpredictable and exciting you know well I I heard these stories I don't know if they're true tell me if they're not that in the midst of of stage races like after a stage you would go running yeah in the middle of these races and then on one day Classics you would you would you would like work out after the race yes yeah no I have I mean the other day I raced in Australia and uh we finished the race and I put my shoes on it was 22k back to the hotel so I ran back and what are your teammates yeah what did they make about they really scratched their head you know and it's not that I'm I've saved energy or you know I'm not tired of course I'm tired but I'm also conditioned to do that and and it's also and another thing that I'm really proud of is and not for me but the respect that the guys have for the sport now you know they think they appreciate they respect me you know for for my role on the team and even in the sport I know that other teams you know other Riders you know they give me space they they respect me in the Peloton and they now talk to me about you know the Norwegian guys about lay low you know about about the women you know Lucy I mean they ask me questions like they they always thought oh the triathletes they're just okay at everything they're like well wait a minute no because this guy just led us on the cobbles in Rue Bay and most of the Field's already been dropped and then he goes to an Iron Man and he sort of and he's one exactly he's not like you know Head and Shoulders above anyone and and these guys then get off and run too you know so like an appreciation for uh the sport of iron that's a huge shift it is because you've had people like you mentioned Andrew talanski I mean he tried to do it and came in I mean he never even qualified for Conan never even looked like qualifying for Kona you know I mean and it's not because Andrew is not a phenomenal athlete but I mean Jay and I were talking about this as well the other day G said yeah well you know maybe you are actually good at this sport it's not it's not that the Sport's easy that's funny well well what's interesting is um the parallels between what brailsford has done with British cycling team sky and ineos um uh looks very similar to what olav is doing in Norway Yeah by you know really kind of like engineering the sport to a whole new level through data and testing and yeah and you know brails for its whole thing of of you know marginal what is it called like marginal games yeah marginal gains and like like what do the guys think of I know it gets mocked and all of that but like he really did you know revolutionize British cycling and created the most you know dominant team in in in you know recent memory yeah we talked about that at the camp about you know creating the a diet like a team like a great a great team you know the book would do great it's like it's a great team and people say oh how do we and it's like well it already is because it's not only you know there was whatever the eight tour wins but it was it was seven I can't a lot and but there were four different guys yeah you know and and also you plug someone like me in there okay I'm not winning the tour but I'm having success in another sport like you know that to me is a great organization you know I mean and and if I look at it from my perspective one of the biggest things was when I was getting supported just in Iron Man how hard all the staff work you know I go to a camp and you know everything's there and you just that that culture like the way Dave chooses the people to work there chooses the writers everyone's working their backside off and that filters through to your training you know you go out and train you're like well I'm not going to sandbag today because I can see all these other you know Tim Carris and the coach like our version of life like he's there every day following us you know I mean there's just a a commitment to Excellence across the board exactly you're compelled to show up for that yeah and and back in the the marginal gains was not like the Norwegian like the science so much you know there's no there was no lactate testing or no VO2 testing we've we actually never do any of that and I will say like unless you know what you're doing don't do it you're better off working hard um but it was like chefs it was you know mattresses pillow you know things to help you sleep you know investing heavily in in massage therapy you know the best the best carers Etc and but also I think listening to to him talk and then comparing it to Tim like the the way that he kind of he's close you know as in it's like uh you know of like a fan you know really keeps an eye on them very much a part of their lives but obviously needs to keep a level of to be able to tell them what to do and that is identical to Tim Garrison you know like he was always there he was he's been a part of all our lives like we've all got married we've all had kids you know like he's been you know a part of all that yet when the time comes he knows when to say you got to go and do this you know or or come down on you or or whatever else and and also that that most people don't want all those good guys challenging them you know I mean the good guys want to be but he created that environment where it was normal for like you know Geron or frumi or Richie port to be like proving they're stronger than each other right yeah you've got nobody's King for more than a day like it's all it's nobody's resting on like normally typically historically in Pro cycling like if you won the Tour or you know you're just you can be expected to be the leader the following year and my sense is that that's not really the case no you know no and perhaps you know I'm that must have caused issues or friction with you know Froome and Garen at times and like not knowing who is the team leader and all of that yep oh absolutely it did I mean obviously it was Bradley increased right which was a big one and and and and then obviously when gear on one I mean for me was peeved you know like even this year for Garrett like not sort of it just feels like he's not being accorded the respect on some level yeah I mean it's not exactly you just got third yeah yeah and he's not gonna race the tour this year no he's off to the Giro yeah so I mean partly a bit of that might be his choice but again it does come down too well okay will have to go back to the drawing board and see how we're going to try and win it you know and and any other team that performance would be roof house you got third right okay that's that's built on that you know try and get you back to the top so it's a tension between uh you know that kind of like ruthlessness that comes with uh performing at just you know the absolute next level of everything yeah but also a big part of the success has to be the Esprit de corps like creating kind of a you know that that team unity I feel like that's a role that you play and and probably why you know a big part of why they want you around like yeah you're a great exerciser or whatever and you can you're a great super domestic but but um my sense is that like people like having you around and you you make the team better just not just by your performances but also by your personality yeah I mean there's a few things person I've always thought like you know a player that makes the team great can be is as valuable as a great player um and and I've always I always in rowing want to be the worst guy in the boat because that meant that everyone had to be better than me so then we had a great crew and and same on this I love being number 30 because the harder I train the better I am better at 29 29 other guys have to be um you know but yeah Tom Peacock sort of nicknamed me you know CMA Chief morale officer because and and I think that like Ruby for example is a great example you know I mean I wasn't meant to do it obviously the team was hot you know they were winning everything and all of a sudden they decided to send me in I don't know who it was that made that call you know thought wow that's bringing the the yeah I remember like I I went in and um I did a race during the week and I thought I was going for that and and the team won that Magnus Sheffield won that and then they had the team for rube and then they you know a couple of days later they said oh camera maybe just stay a couple of days just do the Recon just in case you know and I was like oh why not you know I've never really seen those cobbles you know I'll go and check it all out and you'd never done that race before uh I had I'd done it in 2010 but it was a long long time ago so and back then you know you had tubular tires and you know aluminum rooms are very different you know bikes and it was a very different memory apart from being very painful and so it was it was very I was intrigued to see sort of how it'll work now with tubeless tires disc brakes you know a completely different anyway so I I went did the Recon and then you know they came and said listen we'd like you to race if that's if you're happy with that that's simple I got nothing else to do on Sunday I might as well and so um you know you come in and and and it did I mean I I guess it it provided a different spark like the team had been so hot they'd been winning but how do you sort of keep it there you know and as it turned out I mean that was then the last that was the last race we won that spring so who knows maybe someone had sensed look the I don't know the drive is sort of maybe just a bit you know we need something else to change it and and I can't I feel like that a lot when I turn up because I'm not meant to necessarily be part of the a you know the first picked but when they throw me in it's like a different conversation at the table you know I mean the guys all seem genuinely happy to see me there and um it's like a player coming off the bench isn't it you know yeah sometimes they can change the game exactly a pinch hitter like they come in they can change the game and yeah I mean I don't want to bump my own horn or Pat myself on the back but I kind of feel like I I do have that opportunity to play that role in this team just by having a good attitude you know I mean at the end of the day we're all good athletes we're all pretty similar there's not a big difference between anyone we all train the same we all hit the same numbers you know we're all basically the same weight we're on the same bikes yeah I mean Mike Riley says it the best doesn't he you know there's so much stuff out there in sport and life that you can't control the only thing you can control is your attitude and I just try and make sure that that's a I mean it costs nothing for it to be a positive one yeah well you definitely have a positive attitude and and I I imagine the fact that you can go off and do Iron Man's and then come back to the team keeps it fresh for you and it doesn't start to feel like a slog because like you know those Belgian Winters and like I mean it sounds brutal yeah yeah a lot of it like it's sexy like oh my God grand Tours and all of that but the day-to-day yeah of being a professional cyclist yeah uh especially when you're not you know a room or a guarant like yeah it's a it's a hard life yeah well I went through that I went through the part of you think you might become it and then the realization that you're not and you're just one of like a good team not a good team you know and yeah it's lonely you know I I it was hard to meet anyone I mean your lifestyle is you're all over the place and yeah I mean I I'd had enough and I mean I'm glad I had the courage to just say listen that's fine I'm just not cut out for this it's not it's not I'm not good enough you know to be where I want to be and I want to put my effort into something constructive with my life and yeah to having and it's and it's and back to that story about you know Ethan um who I was going to work with he he's actually been to Kona every year obviously to support me you know so yeah the job offer is still like an open door I was actually in there he he raised that fund they sold that fund and and then uh he's doing one more and I actually spent the day in the office with him on Tuesday with the new team he'd like me to be in you know this one because obviously who knows how long I'll compete for but uh I've always wanted to work or do something in that world and he obviously is one of my biggest supporters you know he wants to see me try and wincona so he's not gonna say listen come and get in here you gotta stop strap into that chair we'll put a bike under the under the chair under the desk and you can pedal away obviously Sports to the focus but he's given me the opportunity to come in at the foundation part of a new fund which is you know quite an opportunity with some great people and and and just have something different going on in your brain you know I'm 39 now you know I don't you go to a race and and the guys are you know some of them are talking about Pokemon for crying out loud like it's a it's a different generation you know and uh it's nice to have you know I'm gonna read you know I read a lot of books I've actually just started reading yours and um I read a lot you know as much as I can and you know now I'll just be reading some you know uh real estate real estate you know Financial reports you're going to follow Simon garons yeah pretty much I don't it it doesn't matter if you're motivated and excited about it I think that's the most important thing you know and and continue to learn I mean life's about learning isn't it well I think you got a lot more to do in sport and we're gonna get to next chapters in a little bit but while we're here in in the present um in what you just shared what struck me is the fact that on the one hand you're arguably the world's greatest endurance athlete from a versatility perspective yeah like you know the fact that you've done what you've done in rowing cycling and Triathlon like it's pretty extraordinary the only person that comes to mind that might challenge you for that Crown is Sheila taramina do you remember her yeah are you you're too young probably I was just thinking Born to Run that that sort of word but it's not that no no no this was an athlete who competed in four Olympics in three Sports wow okay swimming I think she wanted gold on a relay and then Triathlon I just went to two two olympiads and Triathlon and then she competed in the Olympics in in modern pentathlon wow which is like where you yeah whatever you like horse riding horse riding and you shoot a gun and it's like a totally different thing right yeah which is pretty [ __ ] badass I don't know if anybody's ever matched that but no in current times in in certainly in present times like to me you wear that crown and yet at the same time you're still like not the best at any of these things but what I see and what what I think is really laudable is a very conscious effort to surren to always be surrounding yourself with people that are better than you at what they do yeah and so you've had this incredible career where you're in you're you're like in the company of the world's greatest in the things that you love the most and so I guess the question that I have is like what is it about those people that make them special or different when you look at Froome and when you look at when you look at garant and you know Richie port and these guys like is there a commonality are there themes across uh the way that these individuals operate that distinguish them from the others because you as you said like everybody weighs the same everybody trains just as hard yeah certainly there are genetic differences Etc but from perhaps a mental perspective or just a a level of professionalism that they bring to what they do like what have you learned that has helped you level up as an athlete well I guess it really well it hit home seeing it but if I can just briefly bring the Norwegians into it and it's something that I'd actually done for a long like these marathons they'll do the weekend before you know I mean I I often did those sessions everyone laughed at me you know I was like you can't do that blah blah blah obviously they come and do it then they perform now where I'm getting to that is if you haven't done it in training you're not going to do it in a race and what I saw when I started training with Chris was that I'll give you an example we're in Chateau at that camp in between the tour and the Welter so he's just won the Tour in pretty great shape I've never seen him train like that for that three weeks you know he just was flying you know he'd recovered well from the tour for a week and then he just got back into it and Tim loved devising a race simulation type effort and it was often a climb followed by a section that would then lead to a final climb out of period uh in the year where most people are taking a break or doing base training if you're doing the world tour after the tour you're like look I've done enough training yeah I'm just going to absorb it and I'm going to get to the Welter and I'll be nice and fresh and I'll have some string length there and I'll probably do very well not through me and so he's he's devised this this workout it was we went and he's like right Chris will do this climb he's going to do it at threshold so you wait at the top because you know you'll get dropped so I went up ahead and then there was like a 10K pretty flat section sort of false flat said now you're going to go threshold there and he's going to be on your wheel so he he gets a break but he doesn't really get a break he's still going to be around you know 300 350 Watts just holding your wheels so keep the pressure on and then we're going to Chuck a right we're going to go up this brick wall like 20 he's going to go up there flat out because that's the finish and it was to simulate the first Mountain Stage in the Vuelta which happened to be actually in Andorra where I live so now I do that climb all the time so anyway off I went I went ahead and I'm waiting for Chris Tim comes up in the car he's like right he's coming you know get ready so get ready get in the right spot got him on the wheel we're coming and you know we're coming along a road and a main road and it's about to intersect a major the major road and it's just like all we had to do was sort of you know come on to it you know Veer onto it and then go along about two 300 meters and he hit this other climb and next thing we're a few okay or so from from that point and Tim goes past and we're like yeah whatever and we get to this road this intersection where we start we better look for cars and there's the team Sky car blocking the traffic like here's Park this thing in the middle of the road like right in the middle you could not there's cars parked up and he's standing on the other side like this like a policeman stopping people so we just ping it straight through this intersection these cars honking and hollering you know I keep Towing through me Chuck's all right goes up this climb and I creep up at it moment Pace but it just as an example it's an example first you've got a guy here that is so good yet he's prepared to put himself through that in training still he's just won four Tour de France's right and and then he's he's gone through and done this and obviously then you fast forward a couple of weeks first stage of the world so you know what happens he he didn't win the stage nibbly won because it actually had a descent Nibley got back and and got him in a Sprint but for him he went into red never relinquished the lead you know he blew the rest of the field away Nibley had already lost time and I was watching on TV just going okay here we go yeah okay now he's gonna do this bang you did it you know and and then obviously with Garrett then after that you know it was and and even you know with Richie as well when we'd be back in Australia with Tim coaching him um yeah there's just been so many examples of like this simulated simulated work um that you know it's they go to a race and all they have to do is you know there's always been this talk of the sky Train you know we're in Tenerife and we all lined up and that was before I was on the team that was when I was just training with him and I'd have my spot in the line often it was the first guy sometimes I'd be stronger than a few of the guys on the team so I might be two or three back and it's the full lead out you know and then you have at the end you know through me or G or whoever you know racing it out to the top you know and and that was common you know Tim Garrison would would improvise that which is exactly what life does with the with the boys you know it's it's if you haven't done it in training you will not do it in a race yeah it's that simple yet these Endurance Sports I think forever in a day you'd be very hard-pressed to find people that would be like yeah I'm gonna go and do that because it's like no you just got to put the hours in and then it all comes together on race day right well you know what it doesn't you know it it doesn't so well that would be that's a good answer that's yeah I think that's a really good answer I mean basically like they're I mean the sh the short version of that is they're not [ __ ] around no right and they're very intentional about everything that they're doing um and and am I allowed to bring a seeming one a what a swimming story it's a bit controversial so that first time I trained with Chris I that was when we decided Tim Carrison said you know we want to come back to the cycling I said I'd like to do try it you said okay we've got to teach you to swim and you've got to remember after Tim had been rowing coach he went to swimming and he was with the Australian Olympic team in Athens Beijing and then he went to British swimming and then that's how he ended up in team Sky oh I didn't know that yeah so he all of his friends were from perfect for you amazing so I've trained with Chris you know and then on the last days like right I'm gonna draw he lived up on Mount tambrian which is about 40 minutes from from the beach and he's like right I'm going to take you to my friend swimming coach a rock up to Dennis cottrell's Squad and Sun Yang's there so I get in the pool you know and I haven't swung really much in you know years like it's just like it was like something we're thinking about doing and I'm I'm swimming with him so that first year when I'm in Australia I get to go along and train with with sunyang anyway one night he was doing two hundreds and on the last one Dennis said right he's watch this you know he's going to go out pretty hard he'll have a look at the clock with 50 to go and he'll decide whether he goes for it and he and he swam like a 146 something you know like not far off the world record at the time but you just saw like he got to about 30 meters from the wall you know he'd obviously had a glance at the clock to see and the kick and the water just went freaking everywhere okay and I know soon Yang's not a great you know there's obviously been the controversy about him but it's the same principle and swimming is I think one of the best examples of it as you know like those guys they're breaking World Records in training they go to a race and they know they're gonna do it and I just think in endurance sport there's been some of these outliers that have been prepared to put themselves through that because it's a bit different than hurting yourself for a minute 46 right you know Christian good stuff have to go and run a 240 Marathon yeah you're like this weird Forrest Gump type character where you're like I gotta learn how to swim a little bit and then boom like you know like like the most elite person just appears in your it was a famous person's feet everywhere you go like yeah the people show up that you need to like kind of get you to the next thing like it's a it's a weird series of happenstances that have kind of created the lattice work of your career yeah and Bradley Wiggins once said to me that you know until you've got everything lined up like everything is perfect your team your family your support you know Network everything don't even bother putting everything into it because you'll never be as good as you could be but once you've got that you've got like two or three years and make the most of it and you know I've had to build you know build my way through another sport you know pick and you know in another like the swimming obviously is a bit my Achilles heel you know in the sport of triathlon as you know the Dynamics of all that changes a lot all of a sudden like a Magnus Title of you know you can swim quite well he can get to the front he can be provide app plays cycling you know if I'm if I swim well in a race I'm I'm normally on the front foot and it's it's up to me to kind of lose right if I swim poorly I don't like what happened in Kona I'm not even in the race yeah which is I mean that's new it used to be you really could get away with it you get exact suit on and it like yeah it just cuddles the non-swimmer it does and you know the gaps you know the Swim's not long enough to really be substantial in terms of making a a big difference but now you really have to be you have to excel in all three like you can't get away with it no and and one big thing was in Andorra we had a we in 2018 we had a a 50 meter pool that shot it to repair it spent two years renovating it and then they had a fire so it just reopened and it's saying something I've been waiting for it's like right once that pool opens I can get into my swimming what's that put anyway finally now it's reopened so I've got a a wife beautiful wife you know she's studying she's doing a master where she was until she had our boy at the start of covert but she's almost finished a master in holistic nutrition you know leaves a fantastic lifestyle and it keeps the fuel tank you know as perfect as she possibly can be in the house you know great support you know little boy I got this support network of the team and now I've you know I got Brett Kirby at Nike that you know does all my running um you know obviously is involved with kipchogee and everything else and the original one yeah yeah the original one so he did all that and then of course he was part of the Union Second Time Around not not as much that was more inios what is it worth any else that they're just I mean that cycling team formula one kipchogee yeah yeah I mean Jim just wants to win all the biggest events yeah yeah so uh and it's like stuff that he loves Africa I mean that I think is a lot of you know the with with Elliot and and they've also they've expanding that so that's fascinating you bring that up because Elliot he's like we've got all these we've got all the and I'm actually due to go to eldoret soon there's we've got all these guys that are great Runners they can run a 204 or 205 they'll never win the Olympics but they've got amazing engines they might be great cyclists so he said to Jim how about you you know how about we invest and I think Ellie had invested in it too in a cycling Academy and so they've built this Center up there next to the running group and they're going to see if they can develop well yeah I've heard a little bit about that yeah I think that's like really cool yeah and when they get injured and they can't run anymore like why waste this engine you know I mean you're talking about some of the most phenomenal athletes on the planet right you know so so Jim loves certainly loves Africa and his fantastic supports and that way you know the the Americans cup thing they've never won that you know that's like a real the other one right opportunity for him to you know fund something and back something that you know brings that to Britain that they'd never had before um and then obviously he's got his passion in you know other in soccer in football you know he's now talking about buying Manchester United Etc involved in the All Blacks the cycling team um but yeah yeah I mean he's just uh passionate about Sport and and I think it was a big brexiteer you know and moved to Monaco and was saving a lot of money in in tax and he said well you know what I'm going to invest all that in sport you know he literally investors invested billions in British Sport and so um you know yeah it's uh we're all very fortunate to benefit from that yeah um and thinking about uh you know what What Makes You Different like what you're distinguishing talents are I mean your willingness to suffer and your love of just you know getting out there and getting after it like with just unreal consistency is a big part of it and and I you know in thinking about that I I start thinking about like rowing and like what you learned as a young person as a rower um and then my you know my path in swimming like I think even even though like rowing and swimming are very different sports yeah um one thing that they they share in common is that they're like Workhorse sports like they're sports that reward you for putting in a tremendous amount of work and volume yeah and it's kind of insane because you you literally train like almost as much as like a tour cyclist for races that are anywhere from you know 20 19 seconds to yeah three five minutes you know I don't know how long the longest ones in rowing are but they're not that long six minutes yeah but you develop this capacity to you know push yourself uh very hard and you develop that kind of engine that then becomes uh applicable in these other sports like you can kind of you know use it in different ways and you're the you know the the shining example of deploying it in different ways yeah I I even as a 17 18 year old I used to have six hours Saturdays you know and we go rowing in the morning I go home you know maybe 90 minutes I go home do some weights in maybe an hour and whatever I had left I did on the bike you know and so you know at that age I'd be on the bike but you know but but row is it's one speed and so every single satellite you just come home barely making it I mean you cross-eyed you have no idea how to fuel yourself and nutrition and and whatever else so that's actually not a great Habit to get into you know it took a while to learn that's not smart because then the next day you destroyed and you you cannot train but but absolutely I mean in rowing it's I mean people ask what your favorite you know what was the hardest or whatever and I always say Well they're all pretty challenging but it's rowing obviously gave me great Foundation you know and and I think uh like swimming to have the dedication to train for that many hours knowing that you're going to compete for such a short period of time it kind of makes what I do now like half the time I feel like I haven't done enough you know like you go for a run like today you just you know you ride for four and a half hours and do some efforts and go for a run do a few efforts for an hour and you feel like oh gosh man I bet I've got to run a marathon when I race like is this going to be enough you know where is it when you're rowing or swimming you know there's no question yeah you're always so beautiful you're like why on Earth are we doing this again today you know yeah I I still think that I still think there's a lot of craziness yeah but then the great thing with rowing like it really does touch every party of physiology you know but particularly that anaerobic capacity obviously and and that's that's all if you've got that it's easy to build the other end you know I mean it's uh if you've got the hard part you know it's like then you know the base is the the potential for the base is so much bigger and so um yeah yeah that's what builds a VO2 I mean it was like funny the guys talk about their VO2 being smaller you know um as far as doing Iron Man as opposed to doing itu you know and and it was very interesting to watch mine like you know Rowan was here started cycling drop back and then as I got better I progressed it a bit um and now yeah it's sort of Fallen a little bit but to be honest not a lot um I guess maybe I train a bit you know in that zone maybe more than most guys still um because I'm used to it I don't know at a higher Zone yeah potentially you know I mean you did have a little flirtation with itu at one point yeah very very very brief you must have boosted it back up for that yeah yeah well I did some hard running and and everything else but that's just another sport I mean what those guys do it's yeah groundbreaking you know I mean it's uh but having said that you know if you come from it you know you've got the muscle memory I don't have it I was trying to develop it at like 36 37 yeah something that I'd never had you know running that quick or swimming that quick and but I thought well if I'm a good triathlete I should be able to do it um it wasn't the case and it's it's fascinating because you're going in reverse I mean most of those guys you start with the speed and you build the endurance on top of that yeah trying to go back to the the fast yeah and but it just blew my mind like how you can and that I I believe I'm pretty good at Iron Man and can be so bad at that you know when it's still Swim Bike Run so um yeah I won't do any more the various like body composition changes that you must have experienced by you know being in these three different sports has got to be super interesting I was listening to uh you talking with Garrett on his podcast about um some changes like people think of you incorrectly as just this oh you know tour site of pro cyclists World Tour uh obviously you know excels on the bike lag but they're not appreciating the fact that you can run a 240 for a marathon like you're you know and and and running there's still so much room for for you to improve because it just doesn't get the attention that it deserves and I know that you're shifting that with what you're doing with the the the you know coach and all of that um but you were talking about how when you really started to double down a little bit on on your running that you actually gained muscle mass on your legs where you would think going from cycling legs to more running you're going to slim down and get actually leaner yeah I mean it's it's a bit like rowing I was quite lame then and you you build muscle but then when you become efficient you lean out I look at Aleister Brown he's like a rake or even Sam laidlow he's quite fine but they swim so you think how and I in in in swimming I'm kind of I've come into the sport my lats have come back my back has come back but when I'm swimming well I finally start to you know trim out a bit because you know I get more efficient in the water and the same thing when I had to really apply myself to running back at the beginning of 19 you know where I was first doing those 100K weeks I just actually got heavier I just kept getting heavier and heavier more muscle mass more muscle mass and then when I finally started getting on top of the training after a few months then they find out again and so it's I've always remained around that 70 72 kilometer marker but the sort of weight just has kind of shifted you know obviously when I went to cycling it was very similar you know you built muscle on the legs and obviously you lost it up top and then you find down on the legs as well so I was able to be a bit lighter then but now when I came in to obviously Triathlon as soon as you start swimming you know your body's like wow I need muscle so it grows and but you know I'm starting to get to a point I feel where I'm getting more efficient and and I'll start to sort of lean down which is how I'll get myself to the optimal composition to be able to do the optimal race that I dream about doing right you have to be in this but you've got to be in this in this state where you're able to excel as a cyclist down at a triathlete at any given moment right and so it's it's not an idealized state for either of them you have to find like you know a way of like merging those two things so that you can I have to accept that I'm going to be as good as I can be in cycling you know I mean to me Iron Man is the priority that's the one I want to win at and fortunately you know I can turn up to a bike race and contribute you know I'm good enough that I'm better than a lot of guys that do a similar role um without really having to do anything specific to do that you know and to try and then utilize that to benefit the Iron Man and yeah okay at this point I probably haven't quite seen it having said that you know I've ridden some pretty quick bike splits and run pretty well for the past couple of years or a few years but it's yeah I thought it'd be easier obviously but I think covert's kind of changed everything you know I mean my first race back I did the race in Australia and then I ran 30k afterwards and I thought wow this is going to be amazing you know I'm gonna this is just gonna be the most perfect you know like hard brick sessions you know you do a hard race you're on your hands and knees and then you've got to figure out how to run you know and and then we get that opportunity to run on really tired really really tired legs like that's like a real privilege you know like it's something my peers don't get to do and if I can train myself to do that you know get into a race no matter what happens I'll be ready for that you know I'll be ready to absolutely bury myself if I have to to get into it and then or be prepared to try and put them under pressure knowing that you know what I yo I mean I know I'm taking the edge off you but that's going to bring you close to my mark so I can actually race you now even though I know you're a better Runner um so yeah I you know I mean it now I got to believe that it's the right thing because that's what that's what I'm faced with the uh the differences in culture between Triathlon and and professional cycling are are you know significant on some level are they not like uh with the exception of the story you just told about room and like you know pinning that climb yeah there's a lot of like you know five to eight hour rides with coffee stops when you're a cyclist you know it seems relatively laid back and at times maybe from a bird's eye view not as structured as one might think yeah whereas triathletes tend to be you know staring at their garments constantly and losing their minds over data points and you know kind of perhaps not seeing the forest for the trees like they they it seems the approach seems very different like how do you think about that or yeah fitting in fitting in the day you know like fitting everything into the day is difficult you know and that and I think that's another point you make about the guys that's another quality those guys particularly have is you know Chris I've been with Chris on a general ride you know six seven hours in Tenerife and we've been going so slow we get passed by people with panniers on their bikes like cyclo tourists you know it's like the day in between his hard day and it's more like training himself active recovery you know he's like got to be on his bike he's got to recover because he knows a big stage is coming up and then the next day he'll come down to breakfast with you know like uh one of those little gel shot floss things but he fills it up with like three espressos because you know for his last you know super threshold effort you know he needs a booster like to him it's like race day you know so you're right I mean I'd say almost half the time cycling's pretty relaxed pretty cruisy and when the guys are like oh do you want to stop whatever I'm like ah yeah well but if I don't get going I mean I gotta get to the pool before it closes or you know I want to run I've got to run before the sun goes down or you know so I can actually make it to dinner but as far as the technical element of it I mean yeah I mean they I don't it's it's strange because it's on com it seems to be on very different tangents you know I mean to me uh the triathletes would worry about stuff that I wouldn't even think you'd need to worry about and the cyclists worry about you know numbers that are whole sort of different level because that's the level they race at so to me you'd think like worrying about you know your efficiency at 300 watts or something it's like pointless because I spend all my time with cyclists and it's like you know that's sort of just given you know I mean you know it's already taken care of it's already sort of taken care of so um yeah I and and I mean even in Andorra you know I'm the only one there for a long time Yarns recently moved there and and not that I've had much to do with him but I'm really excited because Hayden Wild's moving there you know and I you know probably one of the best one of Christian's biggest Rivals you know and good stuff for the Olympics um and a great guy Faso lives there right sorry doesn't Yvonne basso no no he lived in Italy I used to train with him when I was a liquid gas so where I lived in Italy I used to train with him but in Andorra I mean there's everyone you know Tom pidcock I mean a lot of the I mean we've got 20 writers from our team um that are living there you know a bunch of movie star guys you know a bunch of guys from Jumbo I mean every team track you know Julian Ella Felipe I mean we've got I mean a bunch of MotoGP guys it's one of those great environments I guess probably like Boulders back in the day where you just all these everyone's good and you know the days you sort of feel like oh gosh I'm a bit tired I don't really want to do it you just have to look around see who's doing it and you're like I gotta do it you know it has that it has that real feel for it and so um yeah I've I've never been I've never really fallen into the triathlete way of doing things and I've never really trained with triathletes because of it I think because the odd time I've done a couple of sessions like I've been with yarn or whatever it is so different how I do things you know I mean that's always been the case for you though right you've always been kind of not necessarily contrarian but but pretty clear on on a way of doing things that works for you yeah that doesn't necessarily fit any kind of program or modality that anybody else is doing like where does that confidence come from do you even like okay so you're working with the guy at Nike on your running but like do you even have a coach yeah I know it's overseeing everything what you're doing yeah I mean Tim Garrison got bit they kind of had a the whole breaking two the second time around between Nike and ineos was a bit of a it was a bit yeah there was there was you know Nike sort of didn't uh didn't do it again for because they didn't feel like you know the reason they did the first one was to teach Ellie or to help Elliot believe that he could run that quick and they felt the next time he would do it would be in a race right so when ineos came in and put it on Nike were a bit blindsided by it and you know there was a bit of funny feeling there and I kind of got caught the crossfires with Garrison and and Brett so they actually didn't correspond a lot so you know for I was I'm pretty much like a uh like an NFL team you know like offense defense and you know Garrison's probably got the offense with the swimming and the riding and then you know Brett's stuck with the defense and uh and often in the NFL I hear they don't really communicate either yeah but that's not it that's not great for you yeah it works it does you know yeah I think it kind of pushes me a bit because you know Brett's just purely there how can I make you a better Runner obviously has an understanding he sees what I do and everything else right he has a picture of what I'm doing training wise but but often even Tim said look that's make the run in the structure so you tell me whatever you got going on with Brett and then I'll build everything else in around that and yeah and I and for me I guess like you say this when I was rowing I hated just being the row I always wanted to be a bit different you know I didn't wanted to be the different one that was how I got in my mind about one day wanting to do cycling you know I was just going to change Sports you know and and prove that I could do it no I did that and then all of a sudden yeah I went through that and now back in Triathlon it's like well I don't want to be like the rest I want to do pro cycling too like be a little bit different and um so I guess with everything I do if it was like everyone else I probably wouldn't like that yeah you know you you've got like uh some kind of like problem with authority you know yeah that you know has you pushing back I mean I guess what I'm thinking is you know I've seen cases where in in the triathlon context let's say you know somebody hires Jerry to be their swim coach yeah and then they go out and they find a cycling coach and then they find a running coach and they're speaking to these three different people independently yeah and those people all know that one discipline very well yeah and they know how to get you great at that yeah but if they're not communicating with each other this is going to be a disaster because you don't have a holistic plan for how to be the best triathlete you're going to be and you're going to get injured or you're going to over train or something's going to go sideways okay wrong yeah I mean fortunately I've never really had any injuries and you know I think we've made a pretty good impact on the sport you know I mean yeah so I mean that just makes it all the more like I don't know remarkable but also baffling yeah yeah no it does baffle me too that we we work it out but like I said I mean it just means that they're only worrying about their thing and um and if I mean they're all like I mean we're talking about the best of the best people here too you know it's pretty easy to trust what they're saying and believe in it and I think it also pushes me a little bit too I mean if they you have one person that was worried oh you just ran hard so maybe we should back this off often it's like what am I going to be able to get through that ride and then deal with that threshold but you you find a way you know and and if you look at where the Sport's going now I mean if even that race I told you about you know earlier on that I had to qualify for Kona in Spain like last minute popped in to do it I think I went 752 or 753 that day like just going through the motions you know I mean back in the old days like eight hours was like you said now in Kona I was eight hours which was almost never broken and now there's 10 guys ahead of me it's you've got to you know to be competitive in this sport you gotta find a way to do it differently because no one's ever done what these guys doing yeah you know yeah I mean I've my best you know time in an Iron Man when I went 745 in Italy all of a sudden you know a lot of guys went that speed and until that point and and and I love that I love that the people maybe watch me and they go hard I can do that you know and as a kid and I think it came from this I desperately wanted to go to the Olympics and no one from my school had ever gone to the Olympics and Australia isn't the most encouraging Society you know it's not like like I said about Ethan how you could win that racing current even though I barely don't try a lot of fun no one in Australia would ever say that to you it was more like we'd never had anyone at the Olympics you're too young you won't make it and obviously that really drove me to make it like at a young age so I was not far out of school I obviously made the team I was able to go back and I didn't go back with my chest puffed out like look what I did I went back proud as punch that I'd been able to do it but also to show the guys that look I was as you know I wasn't any better than half of you guys playing football and being on the Athletics team or swim team or you know rowing or whatever I was doing at the school struggling through my grades but you can you guys can all do this and since then my school has had an athlete every single Olympics in three different sports wow your high school my my high school in Tasmania in Tasmania yeah that's [ __ ] crazy yeah and it's wow awesome I love that you know and and so then as I said when I saw this you know with Iron Man when I went 745 since then it's sort of like been the marker that like a bunch of guys like that's just what they aim to do now you know it used to be eight hours and all of a sudden now it's it's that and it's uh it's I I I've kind of feel like the guy that people believe that they could be better than which is fine and unfortunately it often is the case I wish I could be the best guy but it's nice to do it in a way that makes um you know I think helps make the sport better yeah I mean that was the sense that I got from talking to Gustav and Christian like yeah they went in and it was their first one and they laid it down and had these you know historic performances uh but to them it's like they're looking at what didn't go right or what they could improve on and they seem to be you know I'm sure they're very proud but also like kind of taking it in stride like okay well we'll see what happens next year yeah now we know the course yeah you know well to be to be fair I mean when people say how amazing it was and I was you know a long way because we're great too they were but when I look at it I said yeah it's about where I would expect it to be which is crazy but I said even the way I raced you know as I said I was obviously a bit on the back foot I wasn't you know quite there but I kind of expected everyone to blow up you know like I've on the run like I'll just do what I did in 2019 I'll probably end up Fifth you know I started the run in fifth and these guys all ripped past me like they did in 19 like I remember Alastair and Lionel running past and then they just blew up and I just trudged along and came fifth this time no one blew up you know they all they might have blown up a bit later on but they and and obviously at the front they definitely didn't and and people oh it's just a mate I said well the course firstly the conditions were great the course is not that hard you know the course is quite a fast course yeah if you have a you know if you've got the the level of conditioning and if you think about because of the Tokyo Olympics one what the biggest one of the biggest talking points in sport has been is heat acclimation yeah and to me I just saw a bunch of people and you had to watch the women as well that everyone's just learned how to deal with the heat so it doesn't affect them you like it used to like Kona that used to be the big thing nobody could get their nutrition straight no one will ever go there fastest or their best in Corona like it's impossible you know because of this and these guys through science but also through the age who we are in sport with you know different things we can talk about that if you like like the you know the Forefront now and moving sport forward endurance sport but heat acclimation is a big one you know and and those guys had that dialed I mean you got the guy that won in Tokyo for starters and he's training with another guy so there's two guys you know knew everything about it but if they know about it of course all those other guys and me included I did training for it you know which I'd never done before um and so but they but those guys have Olaf and like who are you looking to to help you solve those kinds of problems yeah well the team I mean it was funny because obviously we had guys who went to the Olympics so Tim Garrison had some protocols I got a sauna at home so I'd run in the treadmill jump in the sauna and to be honest I actually didn't do much for Kona I was doing a lot of it the year before when I won Copenhagen when we thought Kona was going to happen right you know that was that was going to be your year that was good that was everything was on track yeah and then it kind of this last year was quite dysfunctional and it just never gotten the got in the groove but it was funny because Brett you know Brett Kirby I said well what did you guys do with Elliot and he said oh we could send you his jacket if you like like they just sent him a jacket he just ran into jacket you know and got warm and that was how he did he say yeah but he didn't do that before you know I mean that was what he did for Tokyo so the that was that was like a a big revolution in endurance sport to be honest which is is is is crazy but it was brought about by the Olympics and and obviously um the guys and the girls took that to Kona and and now it's yeah it's just a pretty fast course now as it should be you know if you look at the the and if there's no wind you're going to see some of the fastest times so fast I've ridden that course so many times I mean you know if you get lucky with the wind even the climbs don't feel that climbing at all no no no one is a small chainring no you know it's and it's just watching it it just looked like these guys are on the rivet like the entire time yeah like there is no breather yeah yeah yeah we're racing and that was always my thing with the sport when I came in it's like I want to turn this into a Race So it's exciting you know and and when I'm racing I feel like I'm always racing because I'm either behind trying to catch up or I'm in front and I'm trying to get further in front and then on the run it's like you know how do you try and win this thing um you know seeing guys just bubbling along in the pack you know and then they run through I mean there's a reason why I guess there's only a number of us that people talk about you know because we we try and win it you know we try and race the race you can be smart and you know have a pretty good success rate as far as results go by you know playing the game but um yeah it's it's sporty that he compete so yeah I prefer to turn it into a race what's your sense of the State of the Union when it comes to doping and anti-doping as somebody who's you know look you're in the Pro cycling world the history of that is what it is um you know what does that look like now versus what it was and what does it look like in Triathlon and what are the differences well in theory we're governed by pretty much the same rules I mean cycling imposes a couple of extra little and ethical things that you know they can't actually test for but you're not allowed to do it you know like um I guess IVs is a big one you know not that we do that in Triathlon but after a triath you know obviously you can have one to rehydrate Etc and it's not frowned upon whereas in cycling you know you have to but to me because I started cycling 2007 you know the end of the Lance and then we had a period there with some crazy results or not you know chera like you know Dennis menchoff DeLuca I remember one Jiro just it was just insane watching these guys sprinting against each other um and obviously a bunch of you know scandals through there Puerto Etc the big thing that had to change because if athletes want to cheat they're going to find a way to do it you know the guys that don't cheat are the ones that are most worried because we if something went wrong we have no idea why or how to defend ourselves but the thing that I saw was it became not acceptable in the sport to cheat from the athletes you know it was like okay we're going to keep an eye on each other now and when you're doing the wrong thing we're going to say something and you see it I mean without having to say any names you see athletes just disappear or when they get caught they're not welcome back the way other athletes are you know some athletes took a band but it's like look he's good enough to do it clean he'll come back to a big team so let me understand so basically what you're saying is when incidents occur instead of it ending up on the front page of Le keep or whatever and becoming like a global Scandal yeah you're sort of ushered to the back of a van and like no I mean if incidents occur they're they're dealt with I mean if someone's positive I mean that's black and white but it's more if people send something and they're not discovered you know then you you just see athletes sort of exactly you know they're not getting caught like they're not getting caught but people around them no and then they're sort of dealt with and dealt with exactly and and that's because you know you're potentially affecting 100 jobs you know I mean I know Jim Radcliffe for example if there was some sort of issue with us that'd be it the team be gone you know with with just one athlete I mean a genuine I mean I don't think if someone accidentally had a protein powder that was wrong and whatever but you know if it was someone got busted repeal blood doping or you know something knowingly trying to cheat I mean rightly so he'd be out of the sport and I think that would be the case for most teams so no one accepts that anymore whereas back in the day I guess there was some sort of continuity amongst the processes and what was going on and what was required to succeed to get the publicity to get the sponsors in and the cost of all that um and so and I think honestly in Triathlon it's you know certainly I've never ever felt at the highest level you know when you get to Kona you know that you can't compete you know I mean the level is like wow okay I'm either good enough or I'm not you know and and I think so I think Iron Man does quite a good job of controlling the athletes particularly at the Pinnacle you know I mean you know you've I've heard you know sometimes in other races there's some crazy results but often those guys never show up to Kona you know or you know and that's so that's sort of right sort of fine um but but I guess what I'm what I'm getting at is the athletes that have you know yes which is a culture show which is a culture shift which is or I think is fantastic you know and that'll be all better than just the testing getting better exactly the test is trying to figure out how do we keep up because let's face it I mean I've obviously never had an issue and and obviously touch what I never do I wouldn't as I said I wouldn't know why or how but I remember I remember when I went to liquid gas and and they asked me my blood type I said I'll have to call my mum and they laughed you know because that was obviously just after the end of like a blood doping era you know Puerto blown up and and I didn't even know my blood type they knew how would you not know that yeah how would you not if you were involved in that sort of thing and so it's uh yeah I mean so it's only the athletes that can get that can really control it and and fortunately we're as a collective we've we've all decided to do it the right way and and um and I think that's you know very commendable and the the do is your sense that the the passports are effective as a deterrent yeah absolutely it's a deterrent because there's definitely been guys that have fought it and won and these guys that have gone down so you know that if there's something off you could get done so that's for sure a deterrent I mean personally I don't think oh this is a test for my passport or you know because I I wouldn't even know you get tested often so it's you know Here There and Everywhere as far as where your tests go whether it's just a random or a passport test or I mean every test is recorded but there's certain ones that are for your passport not I mean when I rock up to Kona they actually test me twice for some reason because they test me for the cycling passport which is different to what you know Triathlon has doubling up on your testing yeah yeah I got done twice probably every year and and the fact that you were an Olympic rower like you've been getting tested for as long as yeah like you might be the most tested oh for sure I'd say 100 I am because coming from Tasmania too there was I think seven Olympians that year and I was the youngest and the the the the what like the atoms so the whereabout system which was quite broad at first it was basically like where do you live great okay and you you put that in a system and they might find you obviously in Tasmania it was pretty easy for the lady to find me she went to school with my mum and the whole you know she'd pop up and knew when I was home she called mum and oh it's Cameron up too oh okay great yep oh we'll I'll see you in a couple of weeks and um but it was quite but but I was on there from the very beginning of that system of that passport system when I was rowing and even still up until uh I mean obviously now I'm testing for both sports but I never ever got taken off the rowing one I mean it's only been a few years since I actually had a rowing test as well like I was getting randomly tested yeah this is many years after that yeah the association yeah well I guess because I'm on the national Federation it's just rowing's listed as a sport still because I never like officially retired or whatever from it and so yeah technically they can still test me for that but it's interesting now because you have this be shift you know with supplementation and different things and and I guess the biggest one that you know is like the big talking point now I mean okay you've had painkillers different things but it's like ketones you know and and and for a long time we know they've been around a long time you know we know they've been around for I don't know 10 12 years or something guys have been experimenting off and on I was first made aware of them Nike you know presented some to me um the hvmn ones back in 2019 uh-huh um I couldn't even get a bottle down you know so vile and we got it yeah we kind of scrapped it and then and and also it was sort of like a bit taboo you know like no one really knew where the gray lion and whatever was and then now but as we know you know in the last couple of years it's become well in the Peloton it's quite Rife um I know Tim O'Donnell is a big proponent he's been on the Show sponsored by Delta G yeah another another one of the the big companies and so there's there's been this this sort of shift to now a couple of the teams have actually come out and said okay we're sponsored by X brand and I don't know there's quite a number of different brands um and which means that all of a sudden that has sort of passed the ethical point but for a long time that was like a top secret because no one really it probably gives you an idea of how you know fragile everyone was on this whole anti-doping thing because you weren't cheating they weren't illegal they were verified they were fine but no one would talk about it interesting you know I thought that was it any else there was a team that that was sort of you know testing and experimenting with this and using it in braces that was interesting because they said it was ineos but when I was sent them in 19 Tim said listen like we we're not doing that you know we don't do that here and and that was like okay well they taste horrible so that's fine but then you know the last couple of years I've I and to be honest I I wasn't presented with it from the team but I became aware of certain groups within the team were on program you know trial programs with it and I've been racing and seen other teams pulling them out of their pocket I mean I remember this race mid race I was riding on the front with Tim de clerk from from Quick Step and he pulled out one of the hvm bottles you know I remembered it and cracked the top and hoofed it down how'd you do that but they they believe it's quite a wonder drug you know I mean it's got a bunch of different you know functions cognitive and obviously ability to utilize your fuels and everything better um yeah I I've personally started using it while I've been here in this Camp just to get my own understanding of it you know away from the team and away from to to learn and to learn a bit about it I've the the hvmm one which is now a very different formula which is much more palatable and and I guess I find that yeah you can it almost does feel like it's I can see why everyone kept it a secret because you you feel like you can train harder you know like you feel like you're on the limit like you know and but all of a sudden you can still do it you know whereas before you felt like you would blow up you know like you start that interval and you think right I don't know if I'll get through this one and sure enough it's too much whereas all of a sudden now you've you've you've still got that bit and and every day you get to your rest day and you're like you know what like I'm not that tired like I mean last last week I yeah I had a long run I was telling you about you know I've been communicating with Ken Ridout and I thought right you know what I think I'll run a marathon today so all right Ken has that yeah has that ability so I go out and I run I run and I have a bit of a caveat I grabbed the dog for the last three or four K to slow it right down so that I don't you know so I ran like 248 pays for 38 39K grabbed the dog and jogged in at like six minute K pay so we did a 254. so just a nice cruisy little marathon and normally that for you you know you feel pretty average the next day got up for my easy day you know it was beautiful got on the gravel bike ended up you know going for a swim so four and a half hours later I get home and then the next day I was doing threshold efforts on the bike you know and to think that like you could you know trained at that level like I couldn't fathom doing that even before Kona it does feel like it's in this weird liminal space between what's okay and what might not be okay exactly a bit that's that's my point with this exactly with the ketones it's like and we've had a number of years where people have been very unsure of it to the point where it's kept secret right whereas exactly because it's like almost like the world's best kept secret you know in in in sport and and um and it's mate but now and I don't know if people are coming out about it because they're like well we've actually we're actually way ahead of the research now with it and we're comfortable to tell people about it so they can use it that way but we're actually using it in this capacity well it's the only reason it's the most widely talked about thing yeah and it's it's it's it's something that only in the past year has become commercially available yeah yeah exactly and that's been a big barrier to it I mean yeah most of them are incredibly expensive and I think that's like age Fair men's different is is there becoming they're trying to make it so it is accessible to people with a different you know formula I guess that is cheap to create and and time will tell how how that goes I mean it's probably the only way it will become widespread is if it becomes affordable and accessible to people you know that they can buy it at the supermarket and you know now you've got to go and you've got to probably get online you've got to actually maybe do some research because it has that stigma attached to it um but I mean there's it's crazy I mean obviously like with anything new there's always like studies and everything and and and it seems to be able to benefit everything um so anyway with sport you know all of a sudden we've transcended to a point where okay we've got stuff that we know is legal yet we don't know if we should say anything about it which is quite mind-boggling when you think back to how sport used to be so I think that's a positive you know right right and hopefully not a signal of Are We pushing again to like are we going back are we going back Darkness okay ketones are fine but but what's their next you know like people thinking okay if that's helping that and you know what can we you know keep pushing keep pushing the the boundary um and I know with our team we felt like other teams have been at the Forefront of these particularly ketones and um research and and use and and we've been apprehensive because of the stigma and sort of Left Behind for a period and obviously felt like we need to get on board you know um so yeah the sport definitely took a big hit yeah absolutely you know and and uh and I think it's great that everyone is so conscious about now we're conscious about stuff that's perfectly legal let's take a bit and really try to understand what this is before we just say yes yeah yeah I mean collagen was another one you know I mean years ago you know it was like is that okay is it not you know it's you know and all of a sudden now that's everywhere do you have to be uh real I mean obviously you do you have to be super conscious of everything you put in your body yeah you have a supplement regimen or do you have to have to make sure everything's NSF and all of that so that you don't end up with a you know some kind of false positive tainted yeah situation absolutely I mean I just make sure it's um uh I'm not sure what the there's a little logo that I know to look for yeah it's like a little circle or something yeah yeah so right yeah and um yeah I mean I to be to be honest this is something else I've I've mean my wife is holistic nutrition so she's big on food you know and that being everything and and up until recently that's been the big Focus for us you know um is is trying to give me everything through that but yeah we've done some research now and like you know for example collagen you know for the joints especially I am 39 so I am getting older not that I feel I mean I'm doing more than I've ever done but I need to stay on top of it um so yeah that's something that I've implemented um vitamin C just purely for you know immunity I just don't want to get sick and I don't know if it's uh Placebo but I find whenever I'm religious with just a couple of vitamins c a day I'm able to stay you know healthy um obviously now the ketones and that seems to be you know having some benefit um and then yeah I mean one of my one of my the companies I'm involved with momentous they have a sleep which sleep pack which uh we're traveling a huge amount you know I mean the going against your psychotic Rhythm and everything else like trying to manage that process is um is really important I think into the longevity in the sport all the time changes but also to get the most out of your performance but I've also found that because of its Effectiveness with that and I feel I've been able to travel better this you know the last sort of few months that I've been using it um when I have a hard day and I want to make sure I get a good night's sleep I have that too but you know I wake up and you know it's all natural and that's the great thing about momentous everything's all natural Etc so even in our household my wife who was you know very much against you know numbers and chemical you know all this sort of stuff we've started to devise you know a bit of a protocol of different things because there's enough science out there that you know suggests that it's it's potentially good for you to get the most out of yourself yeah the momentous sleep pack I think it's called Sleep Elite yeah because what it's called like I use that and uh you know they're a supporter of the show and I know Jeff and all of that like we're stoked to be working with them and I really love their products so I I use that as well but there's also like the huberman protocol which is all like the l-theanine like so I'll take that occasionally but then I get crazy dreams yeah I don't know yeah it happens to you like yeah no it starts to weird me out yeah yeah no I I used to back in the old days when we had like Temazepam and still knocks and crazy things like that with like the cycling team but even that stuff is not out there anymore you know it's melatonin's about as extensive as it gets from from from the team um and then of course yeah you're basic like protein I mean for me like that's a big one like that really you know especially I generally actually have it between a session you know I don't have it at the end of the day um like because generally whenever I finish one thing I've still got something else yeah and oh in the morning I'll I'll Brew up I've got an American type coffee maker at home and I make a big pot and I have a you know a couple or two before I head out for training and then if I've got to run or swim or something in the afternoon you know I get home I throw the frozen banana I throw the protein or the recovery powder in there nice good Scoop of very healthy Nutella natural of course and um and as the base oh some ice I'll use the coffee you know and if it's later in the day I might use almond milk or rice milk or something else but it's like a protein bomb I call it and so I'm getting my you know I'm starting the recovery process from the session I did before but I've still actually got another one to go but I'm getting a boost from the from the the recovery yeah and I know like we started this podcast at like five o'clock and you drank an espresso yeah which is a bold move yeah yeah no well you probably already what did you already do today so you went out and rode with G all day today right yeah we did four and a half hours I did I did a couple of as I said a couple of sort of zone three efforts which you know Zone threes around that 150 to 1 60 sort of heart rate so you know as I said to GE I said it's sort of like it's not hard but it's not easy you know it's in that middle Zone it's sort of like annoying because you're kind of holding back but not too much you know it's actually a bit easier to go a bit harder so yeah I ended up doing a couple of 20 minutes is around 410 watts and then uh shot home um put on the running shoes and did a couple of two and a half K around three twenty three Thirty Pace you know a bit of you know cruisy jogging in between that bit over 15K in an hour 15 and a half k so uh yeah that was that's sort of a typical yeah it was about five wow yeah it was about five and a half hours in total so how does that work with Garrett like does that [ __ ] with his head because this is a guy who's won the Tour de France and you're the guy who's training with him but you're doing more by going out after the training session that you do with him and then going to swim or rust so this was something we didn't get to but Tim Garrison this is I think he's a mastermind because that kind of happened at first and in 18 and then after the first week and obviously fumi figured it out pretty quick you know in 17 when we're together so what happens is they just do more so G you know when we came out here in 18 which is the first time we really trained just one-on-one after about a week he I said oh mate I you know I'm I'm just running a bit late this morning um and oh but I you know and he's so anyway when we got this oh everything okay I was like yeah no I'm fine I just had swimming and he just didn't he's like you've what so all of a sudden the next day you know he was up you know an hour and a half two hours earlier yeah yeah this is not to understand and then every time I said okay yeah I'm finished now he's like yeah I'm gonna just go up here so even today you know we got to we got to Sunset he said yeah I'm actually going to go up behind the Palisades to that one-way climbing back but I'd already said I'm going home to get my shoes on so I couldn't do the extra with him plus the run so and there's definitely been you know Tim Carris that I think has been a bit of a mastermind and now the guys are trained with you know now the younger guys Tom Peacock make me Sheffield Etc they all you know okay well I might I'd like you know Tom for example you know he in Andorra we get you know the main town and then it sort of splits there's up the French Valley and up the Spanish Valley and I live on the Spanish sort of Valley side and that's where the pool is and so to then get over to the French side you either will keep going up there or you have to climb a big mountain pass like climbing up and over um Latigo for example you know good you know thousand meters what's that three three and a half thousand foot climb yeah so Tom will say oh just come past the pool with you because then you know he's actually got to go past the pool and then all the way up and over the climb before he gets home so it's uh yeah I think it's I think it's good for them yeah who's gonna get the the last word in basically exactly exactly and it's uh and yeah as long as we're all performing that's the main thing I love that that you guys are like cruising around La like I think it's this is a drum that I'm always beating but I just think it's the most underrated place to train I mean maybe it's not Andorra but when you look at triathletes and how many people are in Boulder and I was joking with Timothy O'Donnell like you guys are all in your garages and in your basement it's like on treadmills and and it was like 84 degrees here today boiling today yeah for me I said to the guys and fermi's obviously come out you know he was here yeah like and a whole teams well Colombia like just down the way here like the hotel would just get you know world world you know teams from the the tour will come out and spend a month or a couple weeks I say to the guy I mean it's the wow factor here you know I mean you people don't I mean and that was the big reason why Tim was pushing another part with me with G because I lived here I knew my way around so from day one he was able to we were able to go on train if you don't know the place yet you'd get to Orlando all right where do I go right you didn't you wouldn't know like it's not obvious that it's a good place no and but once you get out there like today you know just up on Saddle Peak there's four different sides we went up every single side and I think we saw about three cars and one of them was the guy following us Marco so it's just you know it's it's impossible to explain it with one of the most densely populated cities in the world that you can see you know and then at the moment after the rain and the wind you know you can see all that to the Catalina like you almost feel like you can see Hawaii I mean you just see for it's just it's just the wow factor is nuts but the quality of the of the climbing and the training is I mean obviously you know to bring him up but man chance I mean he was the only one I know of that spent time here training right in the in the summer you know in the winter so that's because he was dating Cheryl Crow it was yeah he had reasons to be out here but still he was obviously really smart you know he knew he knew where to go um and and the weather you know it's you you get up in the morning you never have to question can you do this okay we've had like two days of rain and it was Armageddon but you'd never have to question it like and that is the hardest thing for me here is a rest day because again you feel like you should be doing something you know the last thing of the world you feel like you should be doing is resting and doing nothing but then that's great being here you can go Disneyland or go see a game or go to go do something else but uh yeah I mean yesterday for example I just was in the Hollywood Hills up and down all day you know I mean I did a hundred well about 70 miles and I didn't leave Suburbia right you know and just going up and down from Mulholland yeah doing various yeah the roads that go up there yeah up in you know sunset Outpost down the end Nichols Canyon um I mean there's there's actually hundreds of them in there you know a little like Loma Vista like all these hidden little brick walls you know but last 10-15 minutes like proper climbs but it you know 20 right it's a good perch I mean so they're not going to be as long or as steep as you're going to get in Europe or in Boulder and you don't have that altitude and all of that but but the trade-off is year-round climate exactly and especially this time of the year and you know for G and and also for me I mean things have worked out pretty well since we've you know yeah do the foundation work here you know like you you just I think you just get a real leg up by just being able to log those days after days I mean that's the that's the key to anything is consistency how come more don't live out here you think yeah to be honest I got no idea you know I mean I think it's just uh a stigma attached with the place like it you know it just isn't for that and so I guess with regard to professional cycling though we're in Europe you know we have to be in most guys are European base but it's funny you say it because there's actually a couple of guys in the world who are now that are actually from here uh Sean Quinn with ef and um Kevin vomac he's from down in Long Beach so not quite but Sean Quinn I mean he grew up on up in the Hollywood Hills on on Mulholland oh wow yeah so he knows all those roads like the back of his hand and um and so they're young they're only just going into the world tour they're both very good and it could be you know they could be the Catalyst for you know other particularly Americans you know setting up a base here and using it as when they're not in Europe but um yeah and then triathletes uh same sort of thing I don't know it just doesn't have the culture you know I mean Chris McCormick was here for a while but that's really all I know of well he would come so like 10 12 years ago he would come out and he would stay in Hidden Hills yeah family there yeah maybe you know the same people yeah like they open up their home and he would he would stay there and uh and and then terenzo also zoning would come out yeah and I would swim with those guys every day and train with them oh wow uh like we would swim at the Calabasas swim and that's like my local pool okay yeah work out with those guys and they were the only ones yeah um and we would have the same conversation yeah but I think if the one thing that's missing is a 50 meter outdoor pool like if you're out here in Agora or whatever if they put something like that in yeah attract you know yeah I mean there's one obviously out of Pasadena yeah to drive from the Santa Monica Mountains and and the college out here they got it set up in yards a lot of the time and yeah yeah I don't I really don't know uh because uh to me this place is just I mean it's just so stimulating and endurance sport is I won't say hard because I love it but it is you know I mean there's there's times when it's like especially in Andorra it's cold in the morning it's dark you know and it's tough to get dressed and roll out the door I mean once you get out there it's like fresh Mountain Air and altitude and you know all the guys around you know this is like during winter obviously summer it's beautiful but but here yeah you just can't wait to get out where am I going to go you know it's like not a case of oh I have to go this it's like it's hard to choose you know the options of that endless of everywhere where you want to be that it's actually difficult to choose where to go like running like my Marathon the other day hardest thing was trying to figure out which which part I'm going to add first and where when am I going to go down to the beach and do the Rocky Run part and up to Muscle Beach and then up around Brentwood and you know like trying to just just oh it's just great I love it here I love that you love it um I do want to ask you what you've learned like how does like how does what you know or what you learned as a rower contribute to uh your cycling and your Triathlon and vice versa like how does your expertise in all of these various disciplines inform like how you train and race there has to be some alchemy between all of those sports that make you kind of a more informed experienced athlete yeah well definitely in Rome doing learning how to get the most out of a team because it's even more extreme than cycling you know because if you go off on your own tangent the boat won't go anywhere and one thing I was very good at in rowing I may never have been the best guy I was very good at rowing with other people we do a thing called speed order trials where you it's seat racing where you you know they just change one guy so I might be a double or a four and they'll two together and put another pull him out put him with him and you get a ranking and I would always win that you know I could and it's because I didn't have an ego I could feel what the other guy was doing adapt to that a lot of guys would get in just do their thing and that was fine if they were with me because I could adapt but when they're getting with someone else so they're meant to be great with the you know completely sucks so in cycling you know being able to identify you know when guys are on the edge or when you need to give someone a bit of a pep pep me up or a bit of self-belief or or whatever else because as I said you know everyone's quite quite capable so I think that part of rowing you know has been a great uh a great a great thing to learn um and then I guess as far as how it's helped me in Iron Man you know I think just that ability to do those big days in training you know like I said I learned that from rowing I used to but not only but not only did I do the six hours I did it in three different things like I said to you I'd I'd go wrong I go to the gym I'd go for a ride or I might go for a run so I've been doing that forever it's not like I just started it you know I mean you you the things that I I believe the things I draw on now are things I did as like a 17 16 17 18 year old kid you know the foundation was was set and uh I've just been able to draw into that you know with anything that I've done um over that over that period of time so I'd say in rowing okay you've got the Natural Things pushing yourself hurting yourself you know trying to training hard the discipline you know of you know with rowing you you have no choice but to turn up to training because otherwise the boat doesn't go in the water so there's other guys there that can't train if you don't show up punctuality like we say we're going to be together at this time that's where we are and and I'm always you know there's there's guys that are like oh yeah I'm 10 minutes late I'm and I'm like and I get a bit edgy about that I mean not enough but I you know you calm down you say something to them but to me that's not acceptable because in rowing you can't get on the water whereas in cycling obvious like whatever you know yeah have another coffee and wait you know um so and that's uh that's some you know the discipline side of it is is great to learn and and not to let anyone down and um and I guess another I was I was speaking to someone recently about you know enrolling every race is a big race and important you know like you don't race a lot you train a lot and then you get your national championships you get your selection trials we've got to make the national team you go to the World Cups and the world Champs like they're all big in cycling you have you're racing all the time yeah and you've got to be able to and a lot of the time like that tour next week UAE for example you know three or four of the days of Sprint days and we're sort of there with a GC team for the climb so it's like okay that's just not crash save some energy because tomorrow we've got a freaking absolutely feed it to her you know there's a team time trial or whatever so getting that around you around your head that it's not that way was actually a challenge for me because and I used to crash a lot I guess because every day I was desperate but in triathlon it's wonderful that I learned that skill because every time I race a triathlon it's important you know I want to win you know I'm there to perform you know and and uh so I've I'm used to I've got the experience of that from from rowing you know it's like everyone matters and that's I never go to a race say I never want to be I never want people to come and watch and go God Cameron didn't even try or you know this like I want everyone to go wow that was great to watch him no matter what the result yeah you know yeah that's that's really interesting I mean I think what I what I what I take from your example or or kind of what inspires me about your path is that um you know it's really about the enthusiasm that you have like you're in love with what you do right like it's so clear like you're just you're so excited like you're you're not like I gotta get up and do that like you're look looking forward to whatever punishment you're gonna Dole out on yourself tomorrow right like you can't wait I can't you know and and that's cool because you've been doing it for so long and as somebody who's been you know at the highest level of sports it's like what 2004 or something like that like the fact that well still a champion in 2003 okay well we'll throw a couple more years on there 22. yeah yeah but uh all right so even even more impressive then you know I don't want to shortchange you no um and you're still getting better and you're still improving yeah but I think that's a function of how much you're enjoying yourself which I think gets lost you know and and probably I think a lot of professional athletes after they've been in it for a while they just you it's it's easy to get cynical or to kind of lose what got you excited about being in the sport to begin with and somehow you've been able to hold on to that yeah but I I as back to what we said before I surround I've been very fortunate with the people I'm surrounded with They Don't Really allow me to and and they don't really allow me to think in any other way you know I mean Tim Garrison is never like oh God we're starting to fall off here we need to do this try and keep you up there we need to keep you in the game it's all okay we've got to get this swim Block in we've really got to figure this out okay you've been making excuses for however long right we've finally got this 50 meter pool let's go you know let's go and do these big Miles because that's all you've got to do it's really simple and and Brett Kirby at Nike you know the fascinating thing last year they said listen you know we got an idea how what do you think about La Olympics and I was like yeah what do I think I think it's fantastic it's 2028 said yeah you'll be 44. how about you try and go back to rowing I was going to get to this I was going to get to this but go ahead yeah and and I and I said far out okay yeah I hadn't really thought of that but they're like wow it'd be great to like bookend your career with you know with that Sport and it's such a vast you know Gap in between and I said okay well I'll be 44. now another thing is Tom Brady and I both born on the 3rd of August obviously he's older than me but we're born on the 3rd of August so since he started all this longevity stuff I always had like 45 is that you know this this number and so Nike did a bit of research and you know it seems that physiologically as long as you look after yourself you haven't had injuries Etc you shouldn't really decline until then you know I mean there's a lot of evidence particularly it's like your VO2 for example is the first thing to get hit and it won't really go until then um so the first thing that could potentially be affected would be swimming and running which are the two things that I could still improve the most in because I just simply haven't done them for that long and then cycling actually comes even later right so and they said the reason most guys get to mid 30s early 30s and think it's time to stop is they've been doing that for 20 years like you change your mind like you change your underpants about sports so you know you never give yourself a chance to have got complacent or you know I mean even look at you now you got into Iron Man now all of a sudden you wanted to throw cycling back in there and you're constantly trying to figure out how to be how to be better how to figure it out and so you know if we threw rowing at you it would only do the same thing you'd be like right I'm back in the boat okay how can all these years of every other sport apply to to making that happen and it sounds like Coastal rowing will be will be part of the Olympics and they call that old man's rowing right so like again on that like foreign like everything's just showing up with perfect timing like yeah yeah potentially sport like because all the young Gunners are not going to go for that they want to be in the skulls right so it most likely opens it up yeah for you you'd think the first Olympics if there's a shot you know breaking I mean G and I talked about this because we've always joked about he's always joked about wanting to the line man it was he wanted to do it competitively but then he's seen what's happened in the sport and you know he said I said mate look if I'm honest with you if you've done it when I started that was I guess kind of low hanging fruit you know I came in was able to kind of change things and all that really you know everything when I learned to run there was a lot of great cyclists before but no one could run but when I learned to run they all learned to ride you know and still run as quick to stay ahead of me you know and the low-hanging fruits kind of gone from the sport now you know you got these with all due respect but you know I was able to make my way in at a time when there was an opportunity to do that and so and so now G's more like yeah you know I'm just going to enjoy when I stop cycling I'm gonna do Iron Man whales maybe qualify for Kono maybe be an age group you know do as well as I can and um and who knows from there but and I guess that's the same thing with Coastal rowing you know it'll be the first Olympics that'll be in so we'll see it might not be as competitive but at the end it gets longer right like what is the distance yeah like five six K so it's like 25 to 30 minutes depending on the weather um and yeah on the conditions and obviously with now having some Open Water Swimming understanding and you know with the with the rowing I've got access to obviously the the work the America's Cup crew so I could go and maybe spend some time with them to learn a bit about you know currents and water and you know wind and you know different things that I never thought of before um I guess I potentially do have the resources around me too you do give that a nudge that's but we'll see because I didn't even think of the whole inios thing and how they can you know come to your you know Aid with all of that like that's insane I mean that would just you have to do that like it would just be absolutely [ __ ] legendary yeah I hey I mean I won't rule it out I mean I definitely won't rule it out I mean it would just be indisputed like yeah legendary status yeah and being here in La that's going to be yeah and I think once we get through Paris next year and I'm not really look I mean I haven't given up on obviously with my role in the team there's always a role on the Australian team and we've discussed it in the past few years even leading up to Tokyo I was in the sort of the group but you know I was a few guys away from getting picked and even bit the worlds each year like you know since what I did last year particularly in rubai I guess that kind of reminded everyone you know that I can play that role and at the highest level and and and also maybe I could help bring the team together a bit you know like obviously national teams it can be quite fragmented with different trade teams and they all come together so who knows so you know you never know what might happen with Paris but it's definitely not like an objective my my goal in the next two years is to be the best teammate I can be you know with the guys this year and I mean I take that year by year whether I'm going to race again um as I said I came very close to being happy not to do it this year but the team sort of encouraged me to keep going and I'm happy I made that call I really want to win in nice you know obviously it's at the end of the day it is a world championship and it's an opportunity to win any you know if I can pull that off obviously I want to confirm it in Kona and and then we'll see you know right I can't see myself bidding Iron Man I think even if I did Coastal rowing I'd probably want to do both um but they probably complement each other exceptionally well so um yeah we'll see and then longer term I mean like the multi-sport ultra world you would just absolutely dominate that well I I turned your sights on that after that the the Pod with Colin I I you know I started following I think actually Ultra the world championship in Kona was on around that time uh you're talking about Ultraman yeah I was there I was there I crewed an athlete at that race okay yeah so I teach here I did take note of that and you did that you would absolutely Crush that race well yeah I I kind of feel that and what they're doing is incredible but I kind of feel like uh uh you know someone Tim O'Donnell or yeah somebody somebody legit has to step up and tackle that or Ben Hoffman and they're going to blow it out of you know they're going to do something a bit like what's happening in Iron Man I mean it's not it's not inevitable it's not critical to the guys doing it they're amazing I mean they're the best in the sport but there's there's going to be something that'll push them you know like has happened in in in Iron Man you know and and it's sort of been a natural evolution of getting bigger and bigger and all of a sudden now Iron Man is like you say it's like a race we're sprinting yeah almost so what's going to challenge challenge us next okay doing doing it twice right yeah yeah I mean it's starting to change this year uh Leander cave and Dede griesbauer had a bit of a race and Dede like was amazing oh yeah I think she's 52 you know so yeah and still like I mean it was her performance was Unreal yeah um but to get somebody more in their Prime to step in and do that yeah you know I think it's only a matter of time it definitely yeah I I I like to look at that as well yeah it should yeah yeah yeah you're not you're not headed back to the the real estate fund anytime yeah I know as I said that's gonna be more we love you but like I think that that seat might be fallow yeah a little bit longer no he he knows that and he'll be he'll be a big supporter like he said to me you your role in this whole fund is Walkabout if you can take us on your Walkabout you know um one thing that I've been you know I've always you know I've not to Pat myself on the back but I tend to always put everyone else first you know even and that's great like I said in rowing like I always want to be the bottom guy in the team I always want to make everyone else better I'm always happy for everyone else when they win that doesn't always work out best for you right in the sports the fact that you're so committed to Kona tells me that you yes and you also you don't desire yeah absolutely want your moment and in that one though it doesn't really affect everyone else you know it's it's like it's just me but obviously with the team even with and so I guess Finance has always drawn me in because I think well here's an industry where you can you know want what's best for everyone else you want to help make money and then that's also going to benefit you quite handsomely so so it's um it's definitely it's definitely something that I think will fit nicely you know as I said I've and and the fact that everything I've done I've always wanted to be around the best people or found myself around the best people and wanted to succeed I you know I mean until I take my last breath I hope I maintain that attitude with everything I do yeah yeah yeah um well we we gotta wrap this up here but before we do that I I think I think uh you know it would be helpful to just leave the The Listener or the viewer with um a few thoughts on um you know helping them with their own kind of Fitness endurance journey I mean I think it's easy to hear your story and find it inaccessible you know but you know you're racing when you do these Iron Mans you're with all the amateurs you're seeing what everybody's doing what they're doing right what they're doing wrong yeah um so for the aspiring triathlete or endurance athlete or somebody who's training for their first marathon like based upon your experience and kind of what you see other people doing like what are some you know things to focus on and things to maybe not focus on are common mistakes that you see yeah um it's funny because a friend of mine a a Rob with him out here Stuart Walton and he's his wife Kelly they're actually training for a half Ironman yeah it's like and they've never done one and we've had a lot of these conversations lately and I always say the same thing to people focus on the swim and I seem very hypocritical because it you know I'm not the best at it myself but and I and I don't seem to apply the time to it and I should but if you don't get out of that swim well the rest of the day is a really long long day so if you're a great swimmer okay then you could move to the bike you know and then once you can get through the bike and then you can start thinking about the run but but to me like the biggest thing is and I think people neglect it you know like I'm not a good swimmer it's like well honestly the more time you spend and you just work on that so you can just get through that comfortably you're gonna mean that you can actually utilize the things you are strong at you know much much better throughout the rest of the race so that's always my my biggest piece of advice and then another thing you know we discussed was you know he was talking to me about the you know the boots and the gun you know all this sort of stuff and I mean honestly like especially if you're that stuff takes time I mean I don't know the Norwegians talked about it really well like about massage and but it's so true you know I mean all that stuff takes time it can often take time away from things that you'd prefer to be doing and does it really help that much that lip probably not you know and not to not to crap can on any of that stuff but especially when you're time crunching you have a life like exactly living you know the life that Gustav and Christian have no and even though you don't have the time they have like you have a wife and a child exactly yeah I I when I heard them I was like wow I remember being at the Institute oh yeah I don't say I miss those days I love what I've got now but yeah I could I could just picture them yeah you can see it but you know don't and people feeling bad that I haven't you know done my boots or my you know ball or my whatever it is you know like make sure you have a good meal you know eat well you know I mean uh taking extra time to do that or or just you know if you're watching TV just have a stretch or you know whatever like work those little bits of extra pieces in you know around you know just making sure you've you the rest of your life's going along well because if you let all those little bits and pieces get on top of you you know that'll then get on top of your training and the rest of life and to make it you know very difficult yeah so I'd say you know really simplify things but but then I just go back to what you asked me about what separates yeah okay Sun Yang was a controversial example but you know for me G Etc Christian you know the guys it's you know okay I'm not saying go out and run a marathon but maybe at least spend three hours on your feet walking and jogging or something you know before you have a crack at an Iron Man one day and and and Run and Ride definitely try and ride 180 kilometers you know like just to see you can see how it feels and obviously swim the distance like just go through the motions you'd be amazed the how much confidence that will give you knowing that you've done it other than getting there on the start line you know I mean there'll be times when it's just not possible because of your lifestyle and you do what you can but you know if you can make the time just for that even if it's just one you know and I'm not saying do it all in one day I'm saying you know one weekend okay I'm gonna do Race distance okay next weekend I'm gonna ride the race distance the next weekend I'm gonna hike for three hours you know just just like practice what you got to deal with you know and uh I know that's all sounds simple but unless you get the foundations of it all right like the training that you know the the intervals the power meters the heart rate all that stuff it's it's really largely irrelevant you know I mean and even then once you get to our level a lot of the time you it's irrelevant you're just trying to you've got to go that speed and you've got to figure out how to do it um but yeah I mean swimming is a big one and and finding a great group I mean everyone says it but finding a squad is is crucial I mean I swim a lot on my own but you know that's more because of time you know and when I have to fit training in but when it works to swim with the group I mean it's it's by far the best way to go and especially if you're learning and uh it just keeps you accountable and because you can waste a lot of time if you don't have a structure when you're trying to manage three different sports so that accountability help helps a huge amount so um yeah just those Basics I hope that helps yeah no I think that's great advice I mean there's anything specific the only the the yeah the corollary that I would add to that is simply making it sustainable and trying to make sure that you're enjoying it right because otherwise like what the [ __ ] are you doing like it should be fun and not like overly it should be hard but yeah burdensome yeah and not in it approach in a way that's going to capsize the other things in your life important to you yeah and on the topic of swimming I think you know what I see is I mean the broader issue is we all like to train our strengths and we don't really want to deal with the stuff we're not good at you know so we kind of avoid it right in Triathlon that's often swimming because people didn't grow up swimming they're just they're not that good at it they're intimidated whatever and so they either avoid it and then when they go to do it they're so intent on getting their their Fitness in that they won't take the time to learn and understand techniques so I've seen so many triathletes in the pool like they got to get their K's in yeah they have their workout but their form is terrible yeah and I'm like you're just you should just stop completely and like start over and invest in really understanding how to improve your Technique because you're just you're literally you could get as fit as you want you're still just wasting all this energy and you're not moving forward yeah you know but because they're time crunch are like I can't afford I can't you know afford that time or that investment but that would pay a massive dividend yes oh yeah swimming is the one sport that you can by having the two gung-ho approach it can really backfire on you I mean there's obviously some examples in our sporting guys you know they've been getting better at swimming for 10 years and they train in 30 40 I mean at least when I don't swim well it's because I haven't swum yeah shame on you for being Australian and not having swimming be your strongest exactly the three but yeah how dare you intro I thought I mean it's always that's the starting point you know get that right and and like you say just just learn how to float you know learn how to learn how to comfortably get through that swim and yeah and from there on your uh yeah worry about the rest right on yeah um all right now well we gotta pull the plug on this thing okay and you've got to get to that the uh UAE yeah yeah no no next week oh next week oh so you're around still yeah yeah all right cheers man thanks dude that was super fun honor to be appreciated so if people want to follow you uh in the upcoming season where's the best place to find find you on Instagram yeah that's all I've got actually I don't have anything else so yeah yeah I'm pretty I'm I mean I'm okay at social media I have a decent following I guess so yeah follow the team and follow me and yeah there you go what is the account at cam worth I think it's CJ worth oh yeah it is right I'll link it up in the show notes and all that good stuff I appreciate that cool man this is super fun yeah you're welcome back and if you ever want to ride really slow when you're here hey we've got to go for that swim uh happy to do it anytime now yes do it yeah cool Cheers Cheers

Channel: Rich Roll

Views: 60,219

Keywords: education podcasts, fitness podcasts, health podcasts, iron man, mindfulness podcasts, mindset podcast, plant-based nutrition, rich roll, rich roll podcast, self-improvement podcasts, spirituality podcasts, triathlon training, vegan podcasts, wellness podcasts

Id: j7Wvdse1CZg

Length: 141min 6sec (8466 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 03 2023