The Eastern Rite Catholic Churches | The Catholic Talk Show

hey everybody welcome back to another episode of the Catholic Talk Show today we're talking to a Ukrainian priest father Chiron that's right we're GNA talk with Father Jason Chiron about a lot of topics like the Eastern right churches we're going to be talking about being a married Catholic priest we're looking at the situation in Ukraine and so much more and there is really some interesting content to come but father Jason it is great having you on the Catholic Talk Show it's great to be here glory to [Music] God [Applause] [Music] all right we're going to unpack a lot of really neat topics it's uh I think it's our second priest that we've had that has had kids on our show and Ukrainian right but we but the other Ukrainian right didn't have kids the other married priest that we had on the show was a it's already getting complicated he he was an ordinary former Anglican right priest so it's a whole different situation at any rate you're gonna learned something who's the other Ukrainian Catholic priest you had on we had father andreon so dick Russ's son my cousin oh yeah yeah yeah yeah okay uh but yeah Ukrainian right priest father Jason welcome to the show uh for people who are just tuning in they're not really familiar so father rich is a diois priest he's a Latin right priest um but there's a lot more to the Catholic Church than just the Latin right there's 26 different rights within the church that big shout out catholicos right or is it 23 23 23 all right I caught myself but that's the beauty of catholicos that's the beauty of universal and we're going to celebrate the universality of the church today with you father Jason and and your unique perspective uh you know and we have a we have a large audience that's not just exclusively Latin right we have a lot of acuatic ties to non-denominational folks that are out there as well as the different rituals within our Catholic practice Yeah so father why don't you explain just a little bit how you might differ from a Latin right Latin right priest uh and for all of us westerners you know listening in uh some things that we should know about that well for your Foodies out there I like to use the example of bread you know uh whether you go to Italy Germany Poland Ukraine you know uh they all have the same basic ingredients you have flour salt yeast water um and it's interesting though the exact same ingredients each of those cultures does something different with the same ingredients Italian bread is not the same as German bread um and same with you know in Slavic countries so it's the same with the faith we believe in one Catholic a one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church uh that faith is given to us by Christ the bishop of Rome is the you know visible head of the church uh but that faith is so it's not stale it is so alive and it is explosively so and when you take it and you plant it in a unique culture at a unique time watch out because it just explodes and so that's why you know uh people who accuse uh the church and Catholics of being stale and monotonous they're wrong because when you look at the faith in Ukraine you look at the faith in Mexico it's the same Catholic faith but it has taken on a whole new dynamism and it proves that the faith is alive uh so expressed differently the the theology is different the piety is is different the the the the encounter with the Liturgy is different but once you scratch the surface at the core of it it's the same Faith One Faith one baptism one church I love the analogy to bread and and it it just begs the Eucharist you know it begs that the Eucharist is the very foundational principle of what unites us in Christ as the source and Summit of our faith as is expressed in our practice and at the very fundamental level it is Jesus body blood soul and Divinity uniting us as one and in our diversity we celebrate that in the different Expressions culturally around the world and it is a joy to get to know your culture ever more clearly in this podcast and before we go you know for us to you what are you doing right now let's just focus on YouTube for just a second click the Subscribe button hit the Bell because this is the type of content that is going to celebrate the very fabric of our Unity each and every week at the Catholic Talk Show we've got great content just like the content we have stored up for you today and a big shout out to our patrons who help us support financially to make sure that these shows continue to get out to the worldwide webs that's right so father you're in uh Western Pennsylvania uh Carnegie correct yeah yeah what parish you at Holy Trinity in Carnegie uh Pennsylvania and we call it here Greek Catholic Heaven because it's one of the few places in the country where uh uh non Greek Catholics non- Byzantine Catholics non Ukrainian Catholics whatever you want to call us uh understand who we are you go to North Carolina you go to Utah you go to Seattle you go to Florida and you know we're not as much we woven into the history of the area but in uh Pennsylvania uh the Ukrainian Catholics Byzantine ruthenian Catholics the Eastern right Catholics um you know we have a long history here going back to the 1800s and just part of the fabric of Catholic life here so uh you go into towns and it's not unusual to see you know a lot of Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches uh beside the Roman Catholic parishes so that's that's what's unique about uh Ohio Pennsylvania so and you would be not in a dicese but you would be in an eparchy correct yeah you're a you're an amateur ecclesiologist you you know your your terminology good for you yeah so it's just the Greek term for Di so um that's our dases tend to be much larger geographically than the Roman Catholic dases because um you know we just don't have as many people so uh our dasis of St josephat in Parma Ohio it goes from Cleveland Parma Cleveland all the way down to Miami and basically everything in between um and there's another dasis in the Philadelphia area in New York and in Chicago uh so it it it's quite expansive geographically yeah I've been over to the uh Cathedral of St josephat that's 20 minutes from my house so I've been there and it's it's really a beautiful experience the Ukrainian liturgy uh it's it's there's a lot of similarities if you've went to a ruthenian or a Byzantine right there's a lot of similarities you know whether it's yeah we went to one in the seminary in Miami you guys have a a church there in Miami and we got to go on Sunday to um participate in the Liturgy and it and it lasted I I want to say two and a half hours it was like there was so much singing it was so beautiful there's a lot of singing and and everybody was so happy and joyful it was it was a really cool experience what can you what can you tell just on the surface you were talking about scratching the surface and and when you when you what you uncover is the sacramental life of the church the apostolic nature of our church what what are these surface materials that we're talking about scratching what are some of the nuances to your liturgy that that you you would like to express to some of our our listeners oh that's a really great question um you know I think the one Nuance is really encapsulated in the style of our churches if you look at classic Western uh Gothic Cathedrals you know kind of the embodiment of of uh Western Catholic culture at its apex you know and you compare that to the embodiment of the Eastern Christian churches at their cultural Apex uh that really is a great snapshot to uh with which we can look at uh how the faith is lived in these two lungs of the church as John Paul II called them in Oriental Lumen you know so uh the gothic cathedral in Western Christendom you know it it expresses architecturally it's a sermon in stone which expresses the spirit of Western Catholicism that it the Liturgy is meant to lift man's hearts and Minds up and you have these spires that just they scrap the skies you know it's there to try to lift man up to God and you go a little further east into Constantinople the benefit of going to hagya Sophia recently and it's the exact opposite motion you know you get under that massive Dome that Justinian built in the seventh century and it is the embodiment of the faith of the Eastern fathers and the Eastern Church and their liturgy in that it's not lifting men up to God but it's bringing the Heavenly worship and it it's enveloping and descending down upon us and that's what the the the the the movement of the Dome accentuates the reality of the Liturgy that this is the Heavenly worship of the mystical supper of the Lamb descending among men and that's really embodied in the in the report of Prince Vladimir's uh Entourage when they came back from Constantinople and they they said you know we knew not whether we were in heaven or on Earth but one thing we do know is that there God dwells among men so that's just kind of a snapshot of the uh kind of the the movement of worship and uh the expression of the faith as it's lived out in the East it's not so much lifting men up to God but it's bringing uh the Heavenly Jerusalem down among men it's a a tabernacling of the Incarnation so to speak at every Divine Liturgy I love that you said Incarnation too father Jason um because it it it draws to my mind as you've described architecturally so well Hagia Sophia and and this theological perspective that is so important to consider the Incarnation uh you know the Church of the enunciation in Nazareth architecturally I think accomplishes that same feat as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe too like a lot of the the modern approach of that new Shrine um you know as an expression has been criticized widely but at the same time I think the same aim is trying to express that that God is meeting our humanity and how beautiful to reflect already just on how that expression is being interpreted and applied orthodoxly you know in in respect to the Ukrainian perspective even the sign of the cross you're catching the blessing so again even like coming that that that God coming to man right instead of lifting you even receive that blessing it's coming down through the the the priest and I I don't know if you guys do that or not but I I do know that there are a few Eastern rights where they receive the blessing yeah make the sign of the cross we would call it backwards they would call it ours backwards that's a really interesting point because people often ask that you know why is it that the Orthodox and the Eastern Catholics make the sign of the cross you know right to left and uh you just hit the nail on the head is that the people are receiving you know the church is feminine bride it receives and that's why the priest is a male he initiates he gives the seed of life you know this uh the logos spermaticus he gives the seed of life so when he gives that blessing you know uh the faithful the bride they receive that blessing as it's given you know and so the priest when I'm blessing I go like this and then I go to the left and then I finish on the right and so the people you know M as the mirror opposite they are going like this here and they follow my hand because the the blessing comes over this way and uh that's why we we we go over there now the Latin School is is is Flip Side um you know if the priest goes left first then we we should go left as well um but not to dig on my Latin Brethren father rich but you know yeah we have a letter I think it's from Pope Eugene in the 1400s who writes to those nasty German Catholics and says we receive reports here in Rome that you Catholics up in Germany are beginning to change the the ancient practice and you're beginning to bless yourself left to right he's like stop it desist right away but Germans are Germans in they I've heard a read that all bad theology originates in Germany one way or another I don't know if that's so do you guys use the uh iconostasis like are are is your l lurgical practice in that manner you might want to share a little bit about that because I went to a Marion night right uh parish and uh that there was no pews we were all just standing out and they go behind the iconostasis and this this big wall and then they just disappear for a while and then they come out with Jesus parading him around and everybody's like yeah it was like it was the coolest experience of that expression of reverence and awe right uh uh prioritizing your your your uh praise to God uh and just the way that it was done was just uh mindboggling to me so I'd love for you to share with with everybody how you guys you know do that yeah well you know it's kind of an experiment in that you know of the broken telephone game if you go into like a sixth grade class and you play the broken Telephone Game by the time the word you know Our Lady of Guadalupe but by the time it gets through 28 sets of years you know it's no longer early to Guadalupe but it's uh our long uh guadalahara or something it's this completely changed and um you know the church uh throughout history um the faith remains intact and pure but the um how to say this the expression of um popular piety has altered over time and the way that popular piety is reflected in the movement of liturgy and in architecture is has changed so for example the early liturgies were there many of them were stationary in that you have station one station two and then you finish at station three with when the bishop and the people all come together in the cathedral um and for doing that for example in Constantinople uh they would bring their um icons or holy pictures from their parishes and they each Parish would have like like banners you might want to say and they would bring them in St Monica's you know St Steven St Nicholas and then when they came into the cathedral you know there was like a screen that you would place these icons on and then you you put them down you get into the the full body contact that is you know worship and um uh in in the west the remnant of that you can see that St Marks in Venice for example when you have the rude screen you see that in some of the old English churches the rud screen upon which uh is uh underneath of which is the communion Rail and then over the course of time you know the rud screen kind of begins to disappear and then in some Churches now in in the Roman Church there is no communion rail um so that's kind of the origin of that movement is that it was they were processions and the faithful would bring their icons and they would put them up at the front of the church for veneration um and then in the East that became more fixed instead of taking them off putting them off and on they just began to leave them there and there became a theology around that uh whereas in the East that frame that they would use initially is what we call the rud screen but you know the use of icons and station station liturgy liturgies uh is is more of a of a you know of an Eastern phenomenon but the the the the common root of the original kind of telepone game of liturgy is seen in east and west with the communion Rail and the basics of a icon screen yeah so I I've seen this I've seen like exactly what you're talking about like the English churches with the root screen I mean as little as four or 500 years ago you would still have essentially an Aon stasus and no and no pews right it was liturgy was I think a little a lot more uh homogeneous even let's say 500 years ago um but even even in the even in the Latin right like sure Pew before you before you start just tell Kyle to throw up a picture maybe of one while while we're talking about that because I don't want to get too far into exactly what I think some people already know about it but it'd be good for them to put that in yeah we'll put that on yeah so like the posture even for Catholics in Greater respect liturgically uh in the Latin right is is standing so like in in every respect like the Catholic practice was was standing pews were an invention much much mucher lazy Protestant invention and I'm joking Lord have mercy de but but you know to to realize that this was this was a Protestant uh you know effort of putting in pews and now how that has become in the form of popular piety you know in in the Catholic tradition now now pews are becoming accustomed to church architecture where strictly speaking it's not you know and and and the posture of our attention is is very very different when we look through the historical lens of what is what is a particip ation and the form of Ley what is the participation as as attending these these uh liturgies and what do I do as as the leader of my family as a father or or you know what do we do as children in in the context of this this liturgy and that's why I love learning a little bit of the perspective of the icons that were brought in in in procession like that's such a beautiful thing to to think about fames doing it's a it's a beautiful it's a beautiful glimpse into how the leoty and Priests work together to build this tradition in the church because it's a pilgrimage like you're walking from your neighborhood to the place of worship you know and you're you're carrying your food you're carrying your icon you're carrying you know like the kids and and and you're making your way it's I think a lot of that would also Father correct me if I'm wrong have to do with kind of the Roman uh military tradition of banners and uh of you know having the things ahead of you and I mean a lot of times Constantinople is described as like a kaero papism right where there's like there's a real Unity between the state and the church and these banners I think kind of reflect that that that Eastern Roman tradition as well I mean when you get into the history of this stuff it's so fascinating a that's that's what liturgy is right it's a reflection of the culture it's also a reflection of proper worship and and The Works The Works associated with how we respond to God's uh you know salvation just the what is being offered to us in the Incarnation and the labor that we are called to participate in Christ and you said that ran it shows all the different cultures right so that's how we get these different these different churches where we have a Ukrainian right where we have a you know calan rights where we have Syriac rights where we have MOS Arabic rights they're very tied to a particular cultural expression so father Jason would you explain a little bit what the Ukrainian wrting is and how that differs from some of the other Eastern churches that people might even be more familiar with whether it's the the Byzantine or the ranian yeah that's a great question before I do that I want to preface it by saying this to people that if you're coming to liturgy to ask to get an answer to the question what am I getting out of it you're already at the wrong place it's what you bring to it uh and as you were talking about it is work you know Lura is the work of the people you know you think of 1 Corinthians 3: 19 you know we are co-workers uh in in God's Vineyard and this is our job our job like that of the Angels is to minister to him to offer him praise uh that is what Sunday is about so it's not about you know aesthetical tourism in uh sacred buildings it's about uh doing what we were meant to do is to offer him praise and adoration and thanks uh and to serve him and uh obviously because it's alive you know the body of Christ is more alive than the four of us um it takes on as I said at the beginning of the show un dynamism um and so in the uh East and the West uh they have a common origin in Jerusalem and like you know shells out of a shotgun I'm from Western PA you let go of a shotgun and the shells go out every which way the BB's and it's the same with the explosive uh reality of Jesus Christ is that when he says go forth man he's the he's the sewer who sews his seed and it goes out and uh so from Jerusalem it went into the four corners of the Earth uh and those areas that we now think are off limits to the church or non-Christian were at one time Christian you look at uh Bahrain you look at Afghanistan you look at uh you know Sudan um you know Yemen those are we think oh untouched lands they were christianized you know before there was Christianity in Britain and it was a Syriac uh Arabic um version of CH Semitic Christianity but I don't want to get too far down that so it it explodes and it takes on the the form the shape the language of the people in which it is by who receive it and um the the the three rivers that kind of you know flow out of Jerusalem liturgically like it's a trinity of of of liturgies is the the Roman the Greek and the Semitic and the Syriac family from what you get the marinite church the calans a very ancient you know the the some of them still use the very words of our blessed Lord in when they pray in Aramaic uh or variations of syak uh the rest of the church however is uh Greek and Roman the Romans are very unique in that they uh broke up their Church according to uh ritual so you go to Cincinnati and you have one dasis in Cincinnati um and and regardless if the churches are ethnic like an Irish Parish an Italian Parish a German Parish it's you just have one dasis for the ritual and you have parishes which vary in the East it's the exact opposite and this is where people get confused they think is this is so confusing all these different no it's um they have one ritual in the east in the Greek tradition from Constantinople one of the five ancient Church Seas of the Church Alexandria Antioch Jerusalem Constantinople and Rome and out of Constantinople came the vast majority of churches and and uh these churches organize their various dases not according to Ritual uh but according to ethnicity so you know you go to for example here in Pittsburgh you know we have a Romanian Catholic church we have a UK we have Ukrainian Catholic churches we have uh uh in Stubenville melite Catholic Church uh and uh the ruthenians they all use the same ritual it's all from Constantinople uh but they have different diet es uh because the church is ordered according to ethnicity uh so it's kind of little academic there um but yeah I've I've never heard that explanation that's excellent yeah I mean it's almost like National yeah churches so right the the Ukrainian right then would be logically it would seem the Liturgy and the organization that grew up around the Kevan Ruth and Ukraine and and that area so um tell us a little bit specifically about the Ukrainian right oh okay very good well um it is you know festive the um the expression of Christianity and in among the the ukrainians is uh very I'd say in its origin it's very monastic because of the uh Kiev cave Monastery it is very um this sounds this sounds kind of communist so don't don't take this but it's very much a there's a a people's flavor to it in that um that this is their identity you know this is their worship and uh it's not really imposed from the top down by a clerical IST Overlord if you will but it's really taken root in the culture of Ukraine um so that uh their liturgy is just part and parcel of the people you know it's now mind you in the past you number of decades with the advance of Communism in Central and Eastern Ukraine uh there's been a lot of damage there uh but it is uh part of the culture so you know you go to Villages uh especially like in Western Ukraine and they have um you know uh Wells um that you get water out of and you know they leave cups out there and it's for everybody you know they share it because it's a well well is a symbol of uh of baptism and and people cross themselves before they you know drink from the well um but the the um so it's just part of the culture itself um the Liturgy is very uh and this isn't specific to the ukrainians but uh it's very very uh christocentric uh the the emphasis upon Christ's Divinity just permeates the Liturgy and this is unique with not just Ukrainian uh Catholic churches um it's shared by the ruthenians and by you know the Greeks and others is they begin with the Divinity of Christ and then they affirm his Humanity on the west it's kind of a different starting point you look at the Sacred Heart devotions you know it begins with uh affirming that the humanity of Christ and they also affirm the Divinity but different starting points one starts at this end of the candle the other starts at this end of the candle they end up both you know meeting in the middle anyways yeah I I love that I love that father Jason the the the sense of clerical Overlord is just such an emphasis I want to kind of touch on a little bit more deeply with you because it's important reflecting on liturgy the work of the people in response to Christ and being a part of that festive culture we all have a responsibility so I love that resting with the people so in your perspective can you illuminate a little bit more on that because I'd like to use that for my own pastoral care for uh being the pastor here at jp2 so by this Liturgy of the people I'll give you an example there are two different types of Market you know there's the Oriental Market if you ever been to Turkey or something like that you know what I'm talking about so you have the oriental market and then you have the Western Supermarket you go to an oriental market and they try to convince you of what you need you know and they will you need a carpet you need 18 carpets you know and then here in the west you know no this is the supermarket you just walk in you're the customer you know what you need you know no pressure great and uh and that's the the I I've found in my 25 years with the in the East is that that uh the Eastern Catholic Church is that that's the approach of the Liturgy so you know in the west there has been a development which is top down but this is we're the masters of the Liturgy instead of being the custodians of the Liturgy and this is where we're going to uh change this and that and you the you the people had better accept it because you know we're the masters of it um and in the East that is verboon you know that this is we've been doing this for a thousand years we come to this we don't even need books this is we sing the whole damn thing you know it comes out of our souls we don't need books we don't need rubric we don't need liturgists it we are the liturgist because we pray this every day when we were forbidden from doing it by the Communists we did it two in the morning in the woods in the forest at risk of our life we don't need text we don't need people telling us how to do it it we are the Church of Christ and it is living in us and of course it's not anti-clerical by any means they love their priests but it is one and the same as the people themselves the Liturgy just comes it's part of their culture so that's what I mean when I say it's the Liturgy of the people it's hardwired into how they live and breathe um you know an example I'll give you another example of how true this is is you know during uh the the the Communists when they came into Ukraine this is around 19 early early 1930s and uh they sent in Moscow sent in their best propagandists to convince the people that there was no Christ there was no God and there most certainly was no resurrection and they gathered all of them in here and this very famous propagandist did this for an hour and gave convincing proofs that there was no God there was no Christ and there was no resurrection and then they called up one old guy and tried to make an example out of them and say what do you have to say and he turned to the people this is true this is an apocryphal and says in Ukrainian Christos was Christ is risen and in one Accord they all said truly he is risen you know you you can you can try all you want to take to take the faith out of them but it's hardwired in there that's beautiful I love the resiliency of that and you know it's it's inspiring me about Poland too and how Poland you know really lived that very resiliency as well and how the Communists tried to steal away their culture their identity and they they suffer that for you know centuries similar to Ukraine it's like surrounded by the enemies of of of culture the enemies of Christ you know that it's just it's ingrained in our in our soul and in our worship and that's why it's so important to live the faith as families it's why it's important to live the faith as communities and to establish that response of the people because it's lateria as we're talking about Eucharist that unites us it's also lateria that unites us and it can't be resting with just the pastor or a clerical Overlord or a bishop Overlord it's got to be a response and it's got to be ingrained deeper than just intellectually at the level of the soul I don't want to give you guys or your listeners the impression that this only exists in the East I mean it's not it's not that's not the case I people if you have any listeners from Formosa Ontario you know they have one of the most be called the Cathedral of the north they have this beautiful beautiful Church in up in this Farmland in Ontario and uh that has the high Altar and you go in there and nothing has changed since 1890 you know and the reason is is because in the 60s when uh the one of the local P the local Pastor decided he wanted to do a a recation of the sanctuary uh he was greeted in the sanctuary by the farmers with their pitchforks wow and so you know this is ours we love God and this is an expression of our faith in God don't touch our churches so it exists in the west as well that's great yeah I mean I I think in the west there's a lot of time the the tendency towards ultramantis or hyper papalism where break that open a little bit for the listeners well Ultram mountainism means you know over the mountains right you know the pope over the mountains over the the Alps down there right or or hyper papalism where the pope like any Pope just comes along and he Rules by dictate and there no collegiality between him and the Bishops as the successor of Christ a lot of times people say well the pope said that we can do this now so we can do this well in a certain sense is the pope as the visible sign of unity and the successor of Peter there's there's some Primacy to his position but then also I mean the Bishops have a collegiality with him as well I mean the the priests and and the live and the people have a role as the body of the church too and too often I think the West can be the pope said it so that's what we do now you know on on a you're saying on a local level that people could approach it that way I don't want to criticize Pope Francis that's not it but when Pope Francis gets to the level where he says you can't put an advertisement for a Latin mass in your local Parish bulletin I think that's a little bit of an overstep of what the office of the pope is meant to be I mean personally you know and I don't see those Tendencies certainly in eastern Orthodoxy or in the Eastern churches in communion with Rome uh father what what would you mention on if I could if I could comment to you know just in the perspective of you know the USCCB is an expression of that collegial attitude and and also the collegial responsibility of establishing Unity with with the Holy Father so that the the Bishops of the United States can discern what the what the Holy Father is saying and then apply that accordingly to to the worship of of uh you know the people and and granted like you know your your point uh we've discussed this in the past too but um collegiality is very very important and the and the role of the bishop is very very important uh to the life of the church um but it is this kind of the way that you were describing father Jason these these candles that are AIT you know that that then must come together and to form that greater flame that great manifestation of light in the UT Unum sent that we were called to by Christ himself that we would be one and and we need uh the Bishops to to labor in their respective role and responsibility but we also need the Ley and local Parish priests to labor in that same direction in the same form of humanism that that we're discussing right now this conversation is a form of that type of of unity that we're that we're seeking in celebrating each other's diversity thaton shared and and the lungs too like you think about like the Jesus prayer you're you're breathing in the life of God and then you're you're you're exhaling and you know the sinful nature and but but in the middle of all that you've got Christ coming into people's lives changing the world and and through centuries he's always been present so like I like the lungs like I think that's a very beautiful representation of this and even to the point where people can go from one side to the other side even the wrong way I mean of course there's going to be that but Christ has kept his bride the whole time and and purified her even if a Pope says you can't put an ad in a in a newspaper about a Latin church so did you get the question father I think we went all over the place I don't know was the question I thought we were commenting on something it went everywhere it did it was like a shotgun right out of Jerusalem I'm reminded of the debate between Cardinal ratzinger and Cardinal Casper many years ago over the nature of the church and Cardinal Casper you know spoke about you know the the reality of the church begins at the local and then Cardinal ratzinger at that time uh spoke about the reality of the church as being metaphysical and Universal and uh uh you know I don't know if it was ever resolved there was a back and forth I think in communio um but the the nature of catholicity is very similar when you uh look at East and West in that uh the Eastern churches uh you know Catholic Eastern churches affirm uh the Primacy of of Rome uh but they begin by looking at the the local church and the catholicity of the local church embodied in the person of the successor of the Apostle the bishop and uh and then it it grows from there to an affirmation of the um you know the the the role of the Bishop of Rome as the visible guarantor of that Unity um the Catholic Roman Catholic uh starting point tends to be and that you know catholicity is embodied in the person of uh the bishop of Rome and then it by uh by degrees it radiates out there down to Bishops um but uh the the I hope I'm not that's not a caricature if I'm wrong you know correct me but I think that's kind of like a popular um understanding of of Catholicism that you know it's embodied in this this um super cleric and then in in in so much as you're in communion with him is the degree to which you're Catholic uh I think people who really don't understand their faith would subscribe to that um but we believe yeah yeah they treat Bishops like branch managers for the yeah and that and that couldn't be further from the truth I love that you shared it that way because that is the popular perspective but the reality of of it is is the fullness of the priesthood rests with the bishop and the bishop has that Authority as a successor to the apostles over and in governance over his people yeah yep and I think a lot of people don't realize is that the kind of modern um embodiment of the papacy over the past you know hundred years um it's just that it's a modern embodiment of the papacy with all of its strengths and with its weaknesses um but just because it is what we' we have now doesn't mean that it is the the best embodiment of it so you know people think like for example the universal appointment of Bishops that this is something that you know belongs to the bishop of Rome well if you went before the 1917 code in the Latin in the Latin tradition that didn't exist you know is that the the pope didn't appoint all these Bishops around the world uh you know that's that's just In Our Lifetime but now you know 100 years removed from that people think oh it's always been this way uh but no it it uh the the the Catholic catholicity of the church uh is as present at the local Parish level as it is at the wherever the Eucharist is celebrated in communion with the successor to the apostles um and it is uh it's visibly um shown uh in the person of the Pope yeah I think you even look at I'm going to get a little nerdy here and maybe father Jason will appreciate this but if you look at the the exarc of Rena in the seventh and the e8th century you couldn't have a pope become the pope unless he got his approval from the ex arcade who got his approval from the emperor in Constantinople so these things can develop in the history of the church as far as how the lived reality of ecclesial communion actually operates that's a great that's a great specific point to make and I think it it's also encouraging to think about as it relates to the church and it in its form and in its expression today and and how the people of God and all of us have a role in choreographing the path forward as the mystical members of Christ's body and and you know we can't we can't look at it like oh this is stagnant this is the way the church has always been and this is the way the church always is you know you you hit it out of the park father Jason and saying no the church is alive you know it's it's Dynamic it's a living breathing reality and it's and it's moving this this Motion in St Thomas aquinus is words is is that ready to we're returning to God our heavenly father in the return and the salvific action of Jesus in his atoning sacrifice we're making this return and it requires all of us to participate in and you know the Pope Francis has gotten a lot of shade for like the CID on cidality from from certain Pockets but cidality is essentially that I mean it's really exploring and listen listening and and in those listening forms all the way down to the very local and most rural parishes it's a deeper listening to the response of the people of God and amplifying and magnifying that you know I think all of this conversation though it can kind of point to one possible path to a reunification of all of the East and all of the West right where it I mean what still separates the Orthodox from the East what separates an orthod Ukrainian versus a a Ukrainian Catholic right right what's actually what is the real separation there is it liturgy the Liturgy from almost all perspective is you know it's the Liturgy of St John chrysm you couldn't tell the difference from Constantinople to an orthodox to a Ukrainian right you couldn't tell the difference almost in every respect except for a few parts in it right I think in simplest form you got a guy with a big beard and then an Italian dude and they got mad about something and they put it on all of us children you're right that's that's the way I look at it let me jump on this because you're absolutely right is that I've studied this I've studied this extensively and when you look at the division between East and West over the past thousand years in different centuries the CR the goal the goal posts are different and they keep moving the goal posts of what constitutes you know uh uh Union again and if I do this then that you know we're Union again and at the end of it once those criteria are are met all of a sudden the goal posts change and at the end of it it comes down to uh the guy with the long beard I don't want to give up my my backyard here I control this I control the finances here I get to appoint this person and uh I don't want this guy over there doing it so ultimately not to be uh cynical but uh the question of uh communion comes down to local politics and I want as a as a you know a patriarch of Bulgaria or of Moscow I want control over the churches the money and uh that's it I hate to be a cynic but after looking at this it's it's really what it comes down to so for for example you look at the discussions with you know uh the Orthodox and the Catholics in 17th century Ukraine and the leader of the Orthodox position was uh Peter MOA and he he he explicitly States the Pope is the visible guarantor of unity papal Authority all the way it was a non-issue for him it was latinization that the people in Ukraine would have to adopt Latin Customs Latin feasts Latin uh uh all of these things and he said never and he was right you know like this is the way the the faith was given to us and we have our own ritual of the Divine Liturgy we have our feast days we have our ways of doing it and so the the Jesuits uh you know were were trying to undermine that and take away those legitimate customs of people um and so it gave the the union concept of Union a very bad name uh but the Orthodox at that point they had no problem with the papacy it wasn't the papacy it was a question of ritual purity of lurgical ritual Purity but then you mve to other times you know and um uh and the same scenario plays out with different topics so it's not the papacy you know at one point it was bread you know in the 9th century when you had the fion Schism before the big Schism you know what why did they break off it was like almost a hundred years that East and West weren't in communion why beards beards and bread because the Eastern had beards it it sounds like we it sounds like we all are one but there's just a couple people like one thing's for sure we're all human that's that's for sure and and I I love the title father Jason I'm ready to read your book beards and bread my brother because that sounds like a really good a really good treatment on this yeah I mean even like I think the first thing that even bordered on a large East West Schism would I think I think it's the qu odesi men right where you had the date of Easter and the East they they do the date this way the West does it this way and then finally this like look you do yours we'll do ours we we we'll be cool right but but you know this is present Ed as as father Jason said so so perfectly like this is presented at every different Forum like it's it's presented in dases around the country right now where it's like the centralization of power and like where all this is is taking and it's being taken away from the local pastors or like we're not appointing pastors we're appointing administrators so that the bishop could remove them immediately and like all sorts of stuff like that and it and it is just it's a it's a human aspect of this and what you were saying before like overreach and and in many respects too because there needs to be respectful space and boundaries and Mother Teresa said it so perfectly St Teresa of Kolkata you know she said look at the SE look at nature look at the way it grows you know it grows in silence and it requires the space to grow like it it requires that breathing ability to grow and emerge like we need to give each other those that boundaries in space Here's how I know what father is saying is right is kind of right right talking about it's about power right that's really what's ultimately probably prevented the church from reunifying and I think it was the Council of Florence Ferrara where right before the fall of Constantinople all the Bishops of the East are like look we're getting our asses kicked by these Turks we're getting we're getting we're having a rough time here we're about to lose everything so they go okay let's go over to Roman let's see if we can get reunified so we can get a little this Frankish uh you know Weaponry going on right and they go over there and every Bishop from the East besides one who went there said oh the uh the pH okay sure no fine he proceeds from the father and the son no worries oh the pope yeah no problem absolutely primate so they were like yeah they all signed it because they didn't they were going to lose all their land anyway and then when it fell anyway they're like well we don't got anything to gain so then that was out the window so it really is just it's it's unfortunate but it's about administerial power not really what actually separates us liturgically or theologically but you have you have the Primacy of Peter obviously which we all agree about um you also have these cultural phenomenons and and liturgy you you have the apostolic succession um the the the the giving side of it should be the Primacy of Peter to keep that intact and develop something that allows them to maintain the subsidiarity that every Bishop has in the Catholic church I mean that's the the answer that's the the content of beards and bread right there you know maybe it's a maybe it's a proposal to grown ass men to stop acting like children I don't know um so moving on to another topic he was quiet yeah moving moving on to another topic we got a guy here he's got seven kids we got a guy here who's a priest you put them together and you get maybe three qus of one father Jason right because he is a Catholic priest with seven children mhm right you heard that right he's married got children that's something that they do in the in the Ukrainian right now father you're never going to become a bishop right not going to become a bishop but uh you can't have kids father Rich you're not going to have kids or become a bishop that's clear and that's evident man I wish I had some kids so no that that that's interesting though too cuz I was going to ask about the the structure of celibacy in the hierarchy of the the Ukrainian right um what is the so your Bishop is celibate but um priests can explore marriage before ordination or how how does that work for you guys yeah great question father Rich so uh Bishops uh are celibate um priests and deacons can be married or celibate um and uh the those who feel a call to marriage um have to be married before they are ordained as priests so there's a misconception that priests can get married and that's not true uh so if um you know a married man is ordained uh he's going to make sure that he treats his wife really really well because once she dies he's going to be salivate uh it's it's kind of a joke an inside joke there but the the uh that's a misconception that people have that priests can get married no the ancient practice of the church is that um after ordination a man does not marry uh and there was a famous case of Father Joseph Allen in the antiochian Orthodox Church here in the US you know 20 plus years ago uh maybe 30 years ago who was a married antiochian Orthodox priest his wife died and he remarried and stayed in Ministry and that caused almost a complete Schism uh because the the bishop that permitted him to do that uh violated uh an Apostolic practice really um the other thing that people have to keep in mind is that this is a question of discipline not Doctrine uh and I think in the catechetical collapse of the past 50 years uh that Nuance has been lost you know they put uh this in the category uh with what liberal Catholics want you know um you know gay marriage married priests contraception and they're they're very distinct uh because this is not a question of Doctrine this a question of discipline disciplines can come and go so long as they're serving the saving of souls um and uh so this this issue is is a disciplinary issue um and uh disciplines change um it is uh not an easy one here in the west if people think that uh you know their problems will be solved by having married priests they should think again because it's also a calling of the the wife uh she has to live in a fishbowl on very modest salary it's not as though Mary Priests get two times the salary of a celibate priest that's not true you're on a priest salary which is very modest at best and uh the more kids you have your pay doesn't increase so it's uh I mean it's like a poverty line existence um and uh it's an Evangelical existence we don't take the vow of poverty but we certainly live it you know and uh um yeah so so that's that's kind of the uh the gist of it there um you know the the wife has to be uh she really is a Deaconess and uh as you the Senate on cidality spoke a lot a bit about this but it was really far removed from its real uh usage in in Apostolic times as you see in the didascalia and in the apostolic constitutions uh but it's lived out in the Eastern churches even if my wife isn't ordained as a Deaconess uh you know they they would help with baptisms they wouldn't do lurg functions but they would help with baptisms and catecheses um so the the way it happens in in our churches is that you know if you're going to be married to a priest you become a mother and that's in Ukrainian they say panim matka you know a lifegiver you know a womb to the parish as it were and they help with catecheses they help with counseling they help with you know getting the the making sure all the the trains arrive on time in the church um so very few women in America would really do that um it's kind of foreign to them um these women from Eastern Europe however they grew up you know in villages or towns where that was the norm like my wife Helena she didn't she never met a celibate priest until she went to University all the priests she knew all the Catholic priests she knew were all married with their wives and so she uh just kind of saw what the expectations were uh growing up and um that can't be learned it's just observed and absorbed and so when you know I was ordained she kind of went in automatically into that mode but if someone grows up in like Topeka Kansas for example where that just isn't part of the culture um it's going to it's possible nothing is impossible with God but it is a steep learning curve for someone who's raised here in Canada the United States to all of a sudden forgo you know the second car or whatever or the vacation home and and all of these things and the Privacy that we like in America America because there is no privacy you know you're you're living in a fishbowl father Jason thanks for that insight and and um you know I'm very curious because you know we have a process of of you know the um Bishops being appointed ordained consecrated for service you mentioned that you know you need to discern whether you're called to celibacy or marriage as a young man like is there a period of time of discernment while you're being formed to be a PRI and then if you discern marriage is it like you're you're in the state of marriage information and you're evaluated based on the the qualitative nature of your marriage and the and the maturing process of your marriage before you enter into public Ministry um how does that that all work and then in the context of celibacy how how do uh people how are they selected to be Bishops like from that celibate pool okay let me uh deal with the former and then the latter uh regarding the formation of priests uh 99 98% of the seminarians are single and uh they go through their you know seven years of formation and during that time they are also not only undergoing that spiritual process of conforming yourself to Christ through you know his operations of Grace but also Discerning uh you know the the particular mode in which it's going to exist and uh whether a married mode or a celibate mode um and uh that's just that's part of the you know seven or eight years of formation um what does happen however if at a certain point one finishes their Seminary they would uh oftentimes they' be dating someone um but not married uh they would finish formation they would get married um and it depends on the dicese usually Bishops want to wait um you know three years or so to make sure that at least three to make sure that it's uh that the the relationship has a good basis um upon which the the burden of a Priestly Ministry could be rested um uh so that's usually there's there's a CA precedent where Bishops wait um uh there are a few cases where you know that hasn't happened but I mean usually they wait um uh the other situation that does happen and I I'm kind of both I did four years in the uh Roman Seminary uh CIB and then four years in a Greek Catholic Ukrainian Greek Catholic Seminary married and you live um ouse you're an ouse seminarian uh and uh you come in for uh everything that the sem that the rest of the Seminary body is doing but for sleeping your you know you're you're at in the at home uh so that involves uh a second level of scrutiny in which the formation team gets to know your wife and um see if it's it's a good fit and if it's not a good fit although he may be a great candidate for priesthood um you know the boom will be lowered you know what you're a great guy your wife's just not up to the task you know sorry um and that's that's for their good and for the good of their future parishioners too so I know of cases where that's happened as well uh as for the the latter category father Rich married about the selection of Bishops um in uh everywhere in the diaspora their Bishops the Eastern Catholic Bishops are selected the same as the Roman Catholic Bishops are you know there's a turna list of names that goes around uh it's given to the Nuno n fors it to Rome all this stuff uh that is not the case however in the uh Old Country so if uh it is for example the Ukrainian Catholic Church uh the terms of the union with Rome going back to 1596 you know are that the patriarch of the church and his Senate that they would select their Bishops on their territory uh and they would ordain that candidate and they would simply inform the pope and the pope gives a thumbs up uh but outside of the old country's territory uh it's it's uh it's not them informing the pope it's the pope selecting candidates can the pope veto one of those picks uh not on the native territory uh I I haven't heard of that ever happening uh not that I know everything about the process but uh the canonical right is for the patriarch and his Senator Bishops to appoint and to consecrate uh new Bishops on on their native territory and the bishop simply the pope simply um kind of uh affirms that decision or acknowledges it who is the patriarch of Ukraine it's a mouthful sosav Chev chuk he's younger guy too yeah younger guy uh well not younger I think he's probably 55 60 he look he looks really young big brown beard and everything a lot of people have a lot of good things to say about him yeah he's he's uh 50 uh I think he's 50 years old uh no yeah he's 50 he's about 50 um he uh made a name for himself during the Senate on the family back in 2015 where he just said you know the outrageous thing you know that what marriage is what we've always believed marriage to be uh from the time of of Adam and Eve and uh um these days that's a big stand but uh um uh so that's thus kind of how Western uh audiences might know him from his stand that he took in Defense of Marriage uh and the indissolubility of marriage back uh in 2015 so so I heard you mentioned this in passing earlier and it's leading to a couple questions so you had said that you've been involved in the Eastern churches for 255 years which leads me to believe that either you're 25 years old which from the from the gray and presumably bread and the beard is not true no that's just pastoral care and seven kids I mean he could technically so start very early so you've not always been Eastern Catholic what were you before that I was a pagan I was uh um kind of grew up in Canada Peterboro Ontario Hockey baseball not that I was any I was really good at either of them but I enjoyed them greatly um that was my life had a conversion in high school um through praying the rosary and uh uh discovered that and my best friend's mom best friend's mother who led me deeper into the faith um uh I I was baptized and I was like eight years old Roman Catholic but I never practiced it so she kind of led me to start practicing the faith and I fell in love with our Lord his mother Saints After High School went right into the Seminary uh tried everything for the Blue Jays didn't make it went into the Seminary and um and then uh loved it just loved it my spiritual director said I really had more of a disposition to the east that I should look into the Eastern Catholic churches didn't know what he meant because I thought they were all schismatics if you weren't Roman Catholic you weren't Catholic uh and ended up on an airplane going to Ukraine in 98 to teach English to seminarians in the former Soviet Union and just had a a a mindblowing experience of the at underground Church um so I ended up living there for three years married my wife um had two of our seven children there um uh the the bishop there said I shouldn't even think about being a bishop a priest in Ukraine because they had so many vocations guys would finish eight years of Seminary and then drive taxi for five years because there were no openings in the parishes so he said get out of here go back to North America so that that's where I am now um but the seven seven children we have six girls one boy the last one's a boy Miracle of mirales and it is uh you know the soil in which I grow you know uh a priest I can't speak for celibacy but you know I would imagine that that's the uh the soil out of which a man's Priestly Ministry grows and bears fruit um and for me the the soil that nourishes my my daily life and my my Priestly life is The Graces that God gives me through being a husband and a dad um and it it uh helps me to be more more human more humble I'm reminded of my many limitations by just trying to lead a manage a good household uh and the many failures that come with that attempt um and uh just being available and learning that love is spelled tiim that's what I've learned as a dad and I I just try to apply what I learn in in uh in that sandbox to the sandbox I I I'm I'm running uh in my parishes you know we're we're learning as we go so did you how do you go from being a a Roman Catholic I mean you had baptism so you presumably had a baptismal certificate so you're under the authority of that Bishop that dicese do you have to canonically convert is there a process to become specifically incardinated or or whatever the proper terminology would be into the Ukrainian right yeah so like just like humans there's no such thing as as a human being uh you're a male human being or a female human being you're specifically uh you know Made In the Flesh in in uh in one one way or the other and it's the same with Catholic is you're not just Catholic you express that Catholic uh nature um in and through a particular tradition and so um uh I was Latin I uh canon law permits change of Rights for spouses and it doesn't have to go through a Chancery so if you were to marry a marinite Catholic or a caldian Catholic you would simply write on a piece of paper I change to the right of my spouse or vice versa usually 99% of the times it's the Eastern party going to the to the Roman tradition um and uh that's that you have a witness sign it and it's put into your Mar your baptismal register in your home Parish end of discussion but if you're not married and you wish to uh for example if you're single and you wanted to change to the I don't know the Coptic tradition of the Catholic church then you would need to go through uh the Coptic Catholic bishop or the Ukrainian Catholic bishop or the marinite Catholic bishop and he would then contact your Roman Catholic bishop they'd sign off on it and it'd be a done deal you get like a player to be named later in that trade or is it just kind of GM type thing um okay cuz yeah I'm wondering I was like your your son would be Al ible to become a Ukrainian right priest right my son or one one of your sons would not be unless they converted okay change rights yeah yeah unless they change rights yeah interesting yeah it's not a conversion it's just you go and basically ask permission from the bishop if you can worship with them and he guides you through all of it's not not even an rcia it's more of like a I don't know getting familiar with what is going on and more fully would you say and that was like a unique spiritual Direction session that you that you had in in order to kind of discern discern that you know to have the type of a pastor or or or priest that that gave you that direction yeah he he was by ritual and uh you say that nowadays bir ritual they they what they think something else but uh yeah he he was a bir ritual priest who had a a healthy love of both East or West it's not a either or you know of East being against the west or the West against the East that's so 11th century he had you know he had a a beautiful full appreciation for both and uh you know people don't realize this like Fulton Sheen was by ritual like he was he would celebrate the Divine Liturgy this is in the 50s before the council you know he had a a really beautiful fully Catholic understanding of the faith um so it's uh it's beautiful to see that and we have there's a Roman Catholic bishop up in New Hampshire who uh I think has that privilege as well uh so it's not unheard of among Bishops but uh it does exist among priests um uh yeah and and that's that's very familiar to me in the State of Florida too because there are so many priests that have that appreciation and that I'm sure that is across the world and it's the it's people like you on our on our feed who are listening in every week and and uh listening into this content that we are the ones called to grow in that appreciation ation to celebrate the universality of the church and come to Greater knowledge of really the good things that are happening in the fabric of our Catholic identity and father Jason is a part of something that I think you really want to learn about and that is the holy protection Shrine and what an incredible effort you have off the ground and running with mccre Architects out of Washington DC and the sketches and the design of this church that you're going to create in this Shrine for people you know in 40 acres of wooded grounds what a beautiful approach to the architecture that is proper to the very liturgy that you've been sharing so beautifully with us can you share a little bit about holy protection Shrine and how people could get more information on that yeah thank you for bringing it up you know background is that back a year and a half ago I went to Ukraine rescued with a prisoner of mine Allen 22 orphans and then as we were bringing them out this was the second we left the second day of the war um and uh and then we ended up bringing out mothers with their children the men weren't allowed to leave and we ended up rescuing over 40 uh people uh most of them orphans and getting them to safety they were within the strike zone of the Russians in fact Russian Jets were going over their head um and that that really um kind of took me into the comfort of pario life and and helped me to to and the the tremendous response that came out of that across the country showed me that people are not that I'm a hero please don't think I am but that people are so desperate for Heroes people are so desperately looking for an example of goodness of heroism of character and virtue that it is it bewildered me like I had I had no idea The Thirst um and uh so I I began thinking like my oh my what can we do here because I don't need to be doing these things over in Ukraine I mean there's so many needs here as well um and uh and then shortly thereafter a month and a half two months after that roie Wade was overturned and I thought Lord God this is a a beautiful little mini Victory uh it's not the end of the battle though and what are we doing now for okay these these women who are going to make the choice to give life uh what can I do as a priest uh not necessarily jump on an airplane and go over and save orphans but what can I do to make this Choice easier for these unwed mothers um and so that hit me it hit me hard and um you know I've got seven kids of my own the thought of you know them growing up without a moment a dad it just rips me apart you know but there are kids like that so I'm thinking Jason let's do something something you know let's do something people need good news people need to see that the gospel is alive they don't need to see about some Saint in the 14th century who rescued orphans they need to see men and women now doing it you know and um uh mix that in with my spirituality I mean we're lurgical beings and if it's not rooted in liturgy it's just activism it's business so it has to be a faith of the hands that's rooted in the faith of the heart the liturgy and uh that then narrows it down so now this is a project that unites Heaven and Earth the faith of the the heart with the faith of the hands and we don't have a shrine in this country where people can go to make reparation for their sins against God's design for life and family when someone has committed a sin against life against family you know where do they go on pilgrimage to to give thanks to God for healing to receive forgiveness and to say God I'm sorry there isn't a ground zero there isn't one so I thought good God is this what you want and just so happens that our church here has uh 40 acres of prime real estate overlooking a a highway and uh so we're we're exploring now to see if this is uh something that can be done and uh it it seems as though it it is and uh you know we we have to discuss things with a parish about buying that off the land there from them and our foundation which has been blessed by uh my my Bishop to uh to to look into creating a National Shrine we would build it there and it would be the most beautiful Marian edifice in this country it won't be the largest but it will be um shot to the heart as bonji would say you know it's a shot to the heart for anyone who drives by and they will see that our God is an awesome God in the words of Rich Mullins that they drive by and this is a church unlike any other the interior is like St vitell in re Rena Italy and that it is from that period in church history when East and West were architecturally aligned you look into it and you say wow this is so Eastern wow this is so Western no it's just Apostolic it's just that from that period in our Church's life when we were one the exterior is a glistening gold Dome that you would find in Kiev St Michael's Monastery in Kiev Ukraine unlike any anything we have in North America gold domed all over the place with a massive 200 foot high uh belt Tower uh with four Maran mosaics on North South East and West um it is uh City on a Hill um it is it speaks the language of love and beauty we live in a polarized Society uh in which left and right cancel each other out you can't enter into logical debates with people anymore on issues like abortion marriage what have you um so the last thing left is to write in big circles is to paint with such beauty that it cuts through the clouds and it gets to their heart and that's what sacred architecture is it's a sermon in stone so that's what we're we're building you're speaking my language I'm in the process of Designing a church as well and reviewed mccreary's materials and visited him in DC and what he's sketching for you in design right now and what you're articulating in collaboration is truly masterful when we think of the Via pudus when we think of the transcendentals of truth beauty and goodness beauty is a manifestation of the Transcendent presence of God and the labor of the people in response to the beauty that pours down in the Incarnation and as we think of liturgy as we think of ourselves as a lurgical people and we think of rallying the response of the people of God to construct properly in the economy of Salvation churches and edifices that roused the spirit of mankind to the truth to being that extension of goodness in the world the reform of society and the hope that we have in Christ has never left us and we are united as one in this effort in this work that must be done in the world as we think of this reality of Christ coming back to judge the living and the dead The Works of our hands must reflect the kingdom of God and when I look at these images my brother on your on your website holy protection shrine. org they are truly inspiring and I love that it is a place of atonement and looking for forgiveness in the very ground zero that you described in relationship to the Dignity of human life and the offenses that we as a people have condoned over decades in our in our country but even further before that you know the Bloodshed of of so many um you know we need a place of atonement so this I'm very excited about this project if people are out there and they're inspired uh you know one to to donate and support and and pray for this effort um can you share a little bit more how people could support your initiative and uh and how they could help yes thank you Father Rich for the uh setting me up with that great question it's right on that website holy protection shrine. org uh there's a donate button on there um they can they can donate um if they don't want to donate money then you know we're going to need lots of of of jewelry to bck the icons of Mary so if you have jewelry that you're you know holding on to um you know just uh donate that say I want this to be part of the iconostas I want this these gold rings to be melted down and made into the you know the domes that people will see from miles around um if you have uh you know leadership skills if you have uh um legal skills if you have uh Stone making if you're a stone Mason I mean uh there are all kinds of ways to give but um if you wanted to give financially I'm not going to say no to that and uh there's a donate button on there uh at this point Mo the donations are going towards paying for the architect design fees um and um um you know our initial seed funding Capital to get this off the ground um $1,000 $5,000 um or I mean if if people have you know uh you know a particular let's say if someone's addicted to something let's say pornography or something make this your Penance like I I every time I I I fall I'm I'm going to make a you know a donation uh in to the shrine of Life uh to make reparation for our sins against life and family uh connect it to your your your betterment you know um so those are all the ways that people can help but the first and foremost is simply uh pray praying praying praying well this was a really awesome episode I always love being able to explore more deeply the different rights in the church and especially with someone so you know eloquent and well informed as father Jason so father it was really a pleasure having you on we'd love to have you on again and and thank you for joining us today thank you I really enjoyed meeting all of you may God bless you and sustain your ministry and through your word and witness May uh Souls be saved to the glory of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ amen and to all of our listeners and followers make sure you're subscribing on all of our platforms and sharing this content on social media we're on Facebook Instagram and Twitter and we got to get the word out because there's a movement among us and that is the movement of unity and that is founded in Jesus Christ Our Lord who calls us to that UT Unum scent that we would be one and reflect the very glory of the Trinity on Earth God bless you we'll see you next [Music] week [Music] oh

Channel: The Catholic Talk Show

Views: 22,224

Keywords: Catholic, Catholic Podcast, Catholic Talk Show, Ryan Scheel, Ryan DellaCrosse, Father Rich Pagano, Catholic Radio, Catholic TV, Catholic Show, Matt Fradd, Mike Schmitz, Robert Barron, Catholic Answers, Catholic Stuff You Should Know, Bishop Barron, Breaking In The Habit

Id: T8_1PHVM5NY

Length: 78min 5sec (4685 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 26 2024