The Disturbing Past of Ruby Franke’s Business Partner Jodi Hildebrandt

so let me talk to you about today and today's episode and what we're going to be talking about because I didn't think that I would be back on here talking about this case so soon but of course more updates have come out more documents have come out and been leaked and the more that I started to research this case the more indepth in the trenches I really found myself not only realizing how culty this case truly is I don't know if culty is a word cultish maybe is the better word I don't know but just how deep this goes and how evil and how dark rooted these people truly are so today we're talking about even more updates if you can believe it in the case of eight passengers Ruby Frankie and her batshit crazy co-conspirator jod hilderbrand the recent news about the disturbing arrest of Ruby Frankie and her business partner jod hilderbrandt has taken the media by storm because it mostly seems like multiple red flags were missed or overlooked by several different agencies and as a result that inaction led to dangerous life-threatening consequences for Ruby's children and more than that while Ruby and her husband Kevin had a very strict parenting style that a lot of people had a problem with for years the recent news and heartbreaking barbaric details of their children's conditions and what they were being subjected to wasn't necessarily what anyone actually thought was going on behind closed doors it has been reported that jod was the one who actually did some of the physical dirty work but that Ruby knew about it and she is equally responsible however there's still a lot of things that we don't know like did Ruby encourage this has she ever taped up the children with duct tape before is it true that jod was the only one dealing with the children and will more information come out that changes things lastly how did this overly strict but seemingly somewhat normal mom who despite her controversial parenting decisions never really had any indicators that she would physically torture her kids so how did she allow this to happen and how the heck did we get here also how in the world did these women think that they could ever get away with this so in today's episode we are going to take a deep dive into the person that many people myself included consider to be the Mastermind behind everything jod hilderbrand and if you are new to this case and you want to check out some of my previous podcasts and videos where we've gone over what has happen in this case in depth and then come back to this episode everything will be linked in the description in show notes so that you could watch that first if you want and then come back here I do want to make a clarification before going into this nothing in this episode is coming down on the LDS Faith the individuals involved could be members of any religion and I would cover this the exact act same way because it's specifically these individuals beliefs that have led them down this path after they have manipulated and twisted their interpretation of religion to suit their own personal motivations whether that be EGO power money or whatever else is their driving factor to how they justify their behavior while this case is in the headlines because of its wild stories involving well-known Mommy vlogger and it's been posted all over social media too there's another aspect of this that I'm not sure is getting enough attention and I truthfully think it needs awareness and that's what we're going to discuss in this episode as always this is an ongoing investigation and everything in this episode is alleged or is in my opinion only so please remember to do your own research and form your own opinions now before we get deeper into this case we are going to hear from our first sponsor of the episode because as you know sponsors are essential to keep this podcast free and allow the video version of this podcast to be on YouTube for free as well so let's hear from the first sponsor of today's episode and then we are doing a deep dive my friends all right guys so without further Ado let's get into it teaching about shame and I I went to God and I said people can't understand the word shame do you have another word can you give me another word and I heard one day distorting the truth and I was like brilliant Distortion you cannot you cannot put welts on your child's legs and then lovingly apply Gau and expect healing now you might help the scars go away but the spirit has absorbed the hatred and the Venom popular Utah family vlogger Ruby Franky was arrested Wednesday it's been a really interesting experience watching everyone focus on Ruby and I understand why but this is jod these are Jody's words these are Jody's ideas these have are over decades old so if you will stay inside truth you will not become ill you just you just won't now I know there's some people in the audience probably like I don't know about that try me out my desire is to spread this throughout the whole entire world is that why you've called jod The Mastermind behind all this yes so many things in this case are so eerily similar and reminiscent to the valow DeBell case where you have this woman Lori who already believes that she was this powerful spiritually gifted woman exalted goddess I think was the term and you have her who meets this man Chad dbel dumbbell loser who was essentially part of a fringe group of LDS members and they really took their beliefs to the extreme Chad said that he had visions and was now an enlightened powerful translated being from his previous near-death experiences and he believed and preached that he was now able to speak to God that God was working through him and he was a messenger to help Usher the 144,000 and set up the New Jerusalem which would be in Rexburg Idaho and also to prep for the second coming which he said was July of 2020 and hi we're all here I think we can agree that that second coming never quite happened sorry Chad and not only all of that crazy BS but he also thought that he would be rewarded for his actions in the afterlife and Lori totally believed it like truly believed it hookline Sinker to the extreme so now Lori a previously somewhat normal mother who already had a predisposition to making extreme religious leaps of different ideas believing all of Chad's batshit crazy Visions for the future so much so that she allowed her husband her two youngest children and her boyfriend's wife to be murdered because they were zombies and possessed by dark spirits and of course that just happened to have Financial benefits for her or so she thought I guess in Charles's case and she still is in that delusion to this day interestingly one of the books that was so relevant to Chad debel almost like the basis of all of his teachings was visions of glory and you know who else loves that book and has based much of their life's work and beliefs on that can you guess I'll give you a hint starts with a J jod hilderbrandt what is the likelihood of that two culty nut jobs using the same book to put into play their insane spiritual beliefs and Visions now let's take a pause on jod it's no secret that Ruby has had her fair share of critics and rightfully so for some of her decisions the way she was exploiting her children regarding making her children content for the entire internet to just watch Judge comment on speculate Etc combined with a parenting style that many believe goes far beyond just strict parenting but would she be in the position that she's in today in jail without bond for felony child abuse charges if she had never met jod hilderbrand and got involved with her company connections was meeting jod in some way a catalyst and what is connections is connections a cult is Ruby in fact brainwashed not that that makes her any less guilty in any sort of way just like Lorie valow but what exactly are they teaching it connections how long has this been going on and most importantly how many other children whose parents were involved in connections have had to endure torture at the hands of Jodie or their own parents this is connections according to jod so let me tell you a little bit about what I've been doing for the last last 20 years I've been trying to figure out how to help my clientele I've been working with tens of thousands of people for 20 years and I've been asking God about how to help heal them from this array of mental and emotional illness okay so all of us know depression anxiety suicidality all these presenting issues and symptoms that come into your office or in your families or maybe are even inside you and so I have been on this journey trying to understand how to use principles that are gods in helping people heal so that was a clip from the Eternal core conference in April of 2020 in this jod describes how she got to this belief system jod grew up as the sixth of seven children and she described her parents as emotionally shut down and that she didn't realize that as a child but she does now saying and I quote they were emotionally completely not available for me or for any of the other children and so chaos went on in our house a lot and none of us were really allowed to emote other than to get angry so she learned how to be really nice kind helpful gracious so some of you who are clinicians are probably like whoa she's setting herself up for addiction sure enough I ended up with an eaing disorder right I started trying to control everything because I had no Outlet to emote my emotions I had nobody there to validate me and say yeah that makes sense that when you're brother you know put you into a pretzel that that would hurt and that you would want to tell him stop you don't like that I wasn't allowed to do that so I went on my own journey I went to therapist and tried to figure out you know one what was going on with me um and two how to heal it and unfortunately and I would say inadvertently because I met some lovely people and what they did is they validated what I'll call my Victim they reinforced me to stay where I'm at and said yeah you have every right to feel this way' and I didn't know any better I thought that that would help me get better is if they said yeah that this is reasonable why you feel the way you do and I didn't have anyone at least I didn't hear it in my head give me a transitional bridge to move over into what I now know is truth so I would leave my therapy sessions and I would feel hurt but I'd still go back into my eating disorder behaviors and control and being really nice and helpful and friendly I didn't really heal my soul wasn't healing so I went into gradu uate school um sick and I learned all the the principles in graduate school and I went out to work with drug addicts it was my very first job and as I sat across one of my very first clients he presented um in a very what I'll call agila way he was very narcissistic and he had a tragedy happen to his son and he became really aggressive with me when I would invite him to look at his own behavior he's like listen I just had this tragedy with my son my son is super sick and this isn't about me this is about helping my son get better and I'm like well what if your son doesn't get better and he went into this place that I will uh introduce uh originally called Distortion and I'm going to talk more about Distortion this this afternoon he went into a place of distortion and he would get angry at me which is this is part of his Distortion he'd get angry at me he'd want to blame me he'd want to blame his wife he'd want to blame God he started blaming all these people and what I learned as I worked with him is that as I gradually started confronting him with three principles this is what I learned teach him how to be responsible for himself teach him how to be honest and teach him to be humble so I started working with him and she goes on to describe their relationship as a LoveHate relationship and that he was more on the hate side of things and then 5 years later this man called jod and said hey you've saved my life now I know it wasn't me nobody ever confronted me nobody ever invited me to be resp responsible for my behavior all of the things and then she says that based on this interaction and many others she started to apply these principles when people come into my office I get a spattering of diagnosis right those of you who are clinicians you have a spattering of diagnosis out in the world out in the community we have everything from suicide to gender confusion to depression to anxiety to um addictions all different kinds of addiction control issues divorce right on and on and on it seems like the world's coming across coming apart the seems okay this is what I'm experiencing that we're not healing from abuse resentments fears feelings of uh worthlessness entitlement depression anxiety defensiveness okay and I could I could make another you know four lists of things that we're not healing from here's the key this is the key responsibility responsibility I am responsible for three things I've learned this over like I said over the last decade plus I am responsible for my own perception which means my thoughts and then when I perceive I then feel emotions and when I feel emotions it's because of my perceptions and when I perceive and then feel emotions Then I then choose to behave it's so I'm responsible for that whole process in everything even when I'm depressed so when I talk to people they'll say yeah yeah that's nice and good but I have depression and I'm like okay wait stop you missed what I just said to you and then they'll say to me are you suggesting that I'm responsible for my depression and I'll say yes you are that's one thing if you don't know me I'm really blunt really direct some people hate that some people love that it's like tell me more that feels right because I'm not suggesting that you're a bad and unworthy person I'm suggesting that you don't have the skills and the tools to really understand how to apply these principles that are being governed by your choices so there's four principles I want to hone in today on Choice honesty responsibility and vulnerability which means be open be teachable I'm hoping that everybody in this room is vulnerable today that they're open that you're willing willing to consider what I'm saying because this is a brand new modality not that responsibility is a New Concept but the way I'm angling it towards mental health is brand new so if you are depressed it's your fault and you're not an unworthy person but you don't have honesty responsibility or vulnerability and now by addressing these issues which she says is a brand new modality that she came up with which hello no it's not but if you come to jod she can help you other principles that I learned is that in order to connect to yourself slash another person I have to live honest responsible humble because when I'm not honest responsible and humble I am then disconnected and disconnection manifests like this control uh aggression uh anxiety these presentations where the person is either unknowingly or deliberately not being willing to take responsibility for those three those three principles their perceptions their emotions and their their behavioral choices so I'm either in a relationship or I'm just in a dynamic dynamic just means that you and I are are talking but we're not connecting right everybody here knows what it feels like to connect with somebody I've been talking to many of you over the course of this morning and this afternoon and numerous of you you walk away and I'm like whoa that person's connected they're Ed the other principles to live with include characters of Truth humbleness honesty responsibility and vulnerability or else you are disconnected and you manifest control aggression and anxiety she goes on to say that she's learned that the only things she can control are her thoughts feelings and behavioral choices and that she cannot control anything else and then she uses an example where she talks about a parent child relationship oh I wish I could control them I wish I could get them to do what I want them to do and you just can't but when you try you then disconnect from them because you go into a controlling posture you go into a dynamic instead of a relationship with them so people will say well well if I love this person then how do I get them to and I'm like can you hear how you're going down control Lane you can't get them to your job is to speak the truth to them about their responsibility which is their responsible for their own perceptions their own feelings and their own behavioral choices so no more of this you made me do this because of you I feel if you wouldn't have done that then I'm then I wouldn't have done this all of that is called Distortion which means distorting the truth so by controlling others that is Distortion or Distortion of Truth and then she says that each and every one of us is responsible for learning these principles for ourselves and then if you have charge over anyone else such as children grandchildren clients Etc you have a responsibility to teach them these principles too so that they too can be released from Distortion okay now this next part is actually particularly interesting because of how jod says that God told her about Distortion each of you are responsible to learn these principles for yourself primarily and then if you have charge over anyone else children grandchildren you know classes therapy clients you have a responsibility to teach them these principles so that they too can be released from what I call Distortion so many of you know this word is shame I started using the shame word for probably I don't know five years and people were having the hardest time wrapping their head around shame what shame was and I was teaching about shame and I I went to God and I said people can't understand the word shame do you have another word can you give me another word and I heard one day distorting the truth and I was like brilliant Distortion here's what Distortion is I break it into two groups this is core you got to know this self-denigrating Distortion self- agila Distortion every single one of us goes into Distortion so and now the grand finality of what jod believes to be her purpose and her goal throughout all of this to me this is the most grandiose and almost manical rhetoric that reminded me of how authoritarian leaders and dictators are portray in movies giving speeches about taking over the world or something like that or even Dr Evil I don't know take a listen and if you're watching this over on YouTube let me know in the comments what you think personally I don't think that she's speaking in metaphor I think she legitimately wants to spread what she perceives as God's message to her to the entire world and you are schedul as am I to have hard difficult experiences and you are being asked by your maker to stay inside truth if you will stay inside truth you will not become ill you just you just won't now I know there's some people in the audience probably like I don't know about that try me out you start living in truth I don't know anybody who lives in truth that is emotionally and spiritually sick I don't know anybody and I know thousands of people who have done this my desire is to spread through throughout the whole entire world to teach as many people and therapists and mental health professionals and and health professionals who want to start empowering their clients regardless of where your client has been if they've had traumas or abuses they can heal if they have sinned if they have been making choices such as you know acting out an addiction acting out contrary their value system if that is why they're having Distortion this can heal that as well in that clip jod says that if you're living in the truth you can't get sick and you can also avoid many other health rated problems well jod when you were arrested your lawyer literally asked for an expedited bond hearing because you were experiencing a life-threatening medical issue so was that a choice were you living in truth I don't know you tell me one of the things I also found while researching was a comment in the moms of Truth Facebook group I took this screenshot myself which you can see over on the YouTube version so I can 100% verify this was not edited in any way but it's a comment under a video of Jodie where someone asks if she has had Botox and jod responds I have not had any Botox it's called living in truth the complexion of Truth okay insert Mega ey roll here I can't I I just can't with her and let me just add really quick to here anytime somebody is talking about their direct connection and speaking to God about applying something called principles or being in Distortion or dark Spirits or what's the other one a suppressed person all of these things just for me in my opinion cult cult cult cult cult cult cult because nobody else uses those words nobody else uses those descriptors it's somebody who is trying to in my opinion brainwash and kind of do some sort of sick mind control over other people otherwise you don't use phrases like that you definitely don't use verbiage like that it to me just screams cult I can't say it loud enough just my opinion don't come and try Sumi jod now let's have a quick word from the next sponsor of today's episode and then we're going to dig into this a little bit deeper feel like we're in the circle of trust and I want you to be honest with me have you ever felt the oncoming of a cold or a scratchy throat then maybe a headache and before you even think about making a doctor's appointment you run to Social Media you run to Google you self- diagnose yourself and before you know it you're thinking you have some sort of like terminal disease I know it's not just me I know you guys have done it too don't even try to lie to me okay but luckily for all of us today's sponsor is going to help all of us steer clear of social media diagnosises because there are thousands of medical professionals on Zach do to help us zakok is a place to find and book great doctors who actually have amazing reviews many of whom have appointments available within 24 hours Zach do is a free app where you can find amazing doctors and book appointments all online we're talking about booking appointments with thousands of top rated patient reviewed doctors and Specialists and you can filter specifically for ones who take your insurance are located near you or treat almost any condition that you are searching for it really helped me figure out what's going on with me sometimes when I'm not feeling so hot and making an appointment with a doctor was just so so easy go to Zach do.com an elite and download the Zach do app for free then find and book a top rated doctor today that's zooc do.com anny Elise Zach do.com anny Elise so here's my question when did Hall of this start for jod maybe as early back as 2001 in this interview Jody discusses her thesis in her studies called the experiences of LDS women and how their culture influences manifestations of their sexuality it says this presentation is a progress report on the data I have collected so far in my research on the sexuality of Mormon women ages 30 through 50 it contains both quantitative and qualitative analysis and I will include several findings that have caught me somewhat by surprise in particular I have begun to note differences in attitudes towards sexuality in women who were raised LDS yet taken to church by relatives and Friends in contrast to Attitudes of those who had a more traditional Mormon upbringing I have also found striking remarks by women about how much the language used to describe sex and intimacy especially when they were teenagers has negatively affected their feelings about their own sexuality she starts off by saying that she has lived in Utah for 13 to 14 years and says that she grew up in Arizona and that her family life was fairly rigid LDS later on she got married and up until that point she had never questioned her upbringing but once her marriage dissolved she says that it was quite a shock to me as my upbringing did not prepare me for that and then as she was going through her divorce she started attending the University of Utah and she was accepted into the educational psychology department as I began my study there I met a woman who is a professor of mine um took a class from her and I um disol that I was lbs at that point I didn't realize that that was something I probably should not say of the sent of the valley um um but she was very um very polite about the church and um numerous times we have uh conversations about um the beliefs and she had questions she was seeing different clients and and wanted to know more about the teachings of the church and I felt like I was somewhat of a representative of um the Mormon faith to answer some of her questions so this professor is asking her questions and she felt like she was the representative of the Mormon faith to answer all of these so one day she asked me um I have a client and I would like to know if um is it okay for eldi women to masturbate and you know I kind of sat up abruptly I'd never been asked a question like that and I said you know I don't know if that would be all right um and it was at that point that I started really thinking about um what the church teach and how the church has influenced me as an individual and my sexuality and if they would consider each individual woman as um a separate entity instead of a big Global group of people um and so that probably was the impetus of my um wanting to study this particular topic more questions are needed to be asked and my desire is to generally know and comprehend these women's voices and the meanings they have put to their sexual development from the women who feel silenced because of their religion to the women who are silent because of the sacredness of the religion and to the array of women in between the study is known know is to know them and how they interpret their sexuality I also would like to say that um I was quite surprised to find the support that I received was very positive um from an array of members some with leadership positions some um um with uh I always think of the church as a hierarchy um people who maybe don't feel like they have as much power in the church um I have not met to this point um any type of negative um interactions or or um comments as far as this topic everybody is seems to want to understand lbs women and and why um they um maybe not why but um how they have interpreted their own meanings um I I chose this particular research because I felt like it would be more um it would represent what these women are saying much more than a figure or a fact of of a so we have themes enjoy touch and these are just some of the themes that I've come up with this far thus far underneath the themes you'd have particular categories love a spouse High esteem trust um um fear of sex would be abuse father it's sinful um and I left Mom's rules open because I'd like to discuss that after um Karen gets been speaking I I received a lot of interesting comments on the roles of mothers it's another talk for another time though I'm sure um underneath the categories would be the particular quotes statements from the women themselves so that it uh reinforces these themes and the thing that is very important with doing a qualitative analysis is that you go over it constantly you're always looking for new themes for new information for new ways of looking at things so I will be in constant contact with my participants to make sure that I'm understanding them accurately and my viewpoint was that the women who were raised outside of the church well not outside the church but were raised um as far as their home life did not have the church in their home life were reporting to have healthier views of sex sexuality than women who were raised with Mom and Dad in the church so to me it was more of a familial um influence the culture within the family structure um like I said which completely caught me broadside and as I've interviewed the the complete 23 women probably over half of them have this experience where Mom and Dad were not the primary instructors of the religion in the home they were trying to um convert me if you will to the teachings um I I feel like I was given more genuine information and beliefs and feelings and values from them once they were put at ease that I I did know what they were talking about um another theme was that um a lot of the women talked in generalities there there were some that were very explicit very detailed um but a lot of them spoke in general terms um they would say the word sex and sexuality but it would always be followed by the word sacred and I began to question what exactly does that word mean does that mean private and I um I want to um the word just left me anyways the word sacred is it is it a private um part of my life or is it something that I feel silenced about I I do not know exactly what that word means to the women that spoke to me it's something else that I want to check with them I'm sure that it means different things to different people but I found that that word was used numerous times in the interview process they were comfortable talking about sexuality but when asked if they would be comfortable talking to a neighbor or a relative um when I probed them a little bit more um it was very difficult for them to say that they would they wanted to defer to the Bishop State president to a spouse and so I I pushed a little bit and said you know what if they don't feel comfortable talking to those men and they need a woman's perspective um there were probably four or five that said that they just that that would not be appropriate the church would not condone them talking to to uh to them about um um intimacy sexuality because of the sacredness um five to seven women in each group I've had three thus far and it's been fascinating to watch others meanings being projected outward into the group like I said before I was thinking that people were going to be fairly silent and give yes no answers um but to my surprise um uh the the group groups have been um very vocal and one woman in particular became quite angry as she asserted leaning over another lady pointing her finger Jane you are wrong um to me it wasn't about right or wrong it was it was showing me how deeply our values are rooted in us and why it can be so difficult to change or alter what is no longer serving us and also where judgment comes from um all of them reported that they are actively wanting and trying to give their children um a better and more satisfying picture of sexuality than they received they want to be um more open and answering their questions and actually give them answers to their questions of why instead of because or the church said not to I realize you probably have questions which I would love your feedback um so next year I intend to be here and give you a final analysis of what it is that I found and what we as members and not members of the church can do with our own children to teach them a more healthy version and form of their own sexuality thank you now this was in 2001 and her final study was later published in 2003 this is obviously an older recording but it's crazy to hear jod in her own words talk about this topic and the vast difference in her own actions moving forward and while listening it seems like oh maybe she did this study maybe she would want to make a positive change not to make sexuality or even just basic discussions about puberty and things like that that go along with it very awkward for children or teach them that it's something to be ashamed of but no that is not what she did so all of that was evidenced by her niece 's interviews with the Mormon stories podcast and other news outlets the links to full interviews will be in the show notes and video description if you want to see or hear the whole thing I was I was giving Book of Mormons out at school I had never done drugs I had never had anything close to sex I didn't even know she was convinced I was also masturbating I was a m like I had a masturbation problem I didn't even know female anatomy people could masturbate I didn't even know that um but I would because she was convinced I was also not allowed to use tampons because she was convinced I was masturbating with them which is insane um so things got Progressive this sounds like projection I I don't know if it's projection it's so I know so things got progressively worse and worse and worse because I wasn't getting better she was she she would say I'm trying to make you so physically uncomfortable that it forces the sin out and so that's when she started I would had to sleep outside in the snow that's when I was um so uh when she would lock me in this in her she worked in Lehi in like the there was a little side office closet kind of room it was like a little bit bigger than a closet but it didn't have any Windows it had like a table a chair an actual closet and that's kind of about that's about it so that's where I when I when I was pulled out of school and I started living with her full-time because she worked I went with her to work and that's where I stayed and sometimes she would lock me in it sometimes she wouldn't um but I was not allowed to leave that was like rule number one I was not allowed to leave that room and um she would have me write out my sins on a piece of paper and every day she gave me the same piece of paper um and I would have to write out my sins and these sins that I was writing out I was like and again I believed all this I believed this fully so I was like oh there must be more in me I'm trying I'm trying to think I be like oh one time I lied to my best friend Scotty and like these are the types of things I'm writing out and then she would come back in take that paper read it to me make me get on my hands and knees and beg for forgiveness as she read this back to me and then she was like no this isn't it this is not it this isn't all there's more there's more there's more and and there wasn't and I would start making things up because I was like I don't know and because she was convinced there was more things got worse and worse and worse and she said I cannot be around my mom I can't ever be around her again because if she told me the sky was yellow I would believe her she has this ability to like alchemi like like just get into your soul it's like the it is horrifying and there's no real way of explaining it to people unless you've experienced it and or if you've experienced this level of emotional abuse there's no way of really like having you there's no way of understanding it um so I Nar narcissistic cult leader comes to mind yeah um I don't know if this is if this is fully true but I from what I understand she's been diagnosed with many many um issues including psychopathy but jod is The Mastermind here not Ruby Ruby is still responsible and like should be arrested for harming her children for sure and I'm sure jod like used that used what was already there which is what she does she uses what's already there to her Advantage um Jodie is the is is the one doing this J this is Jody's therapy itic ideas these are Jody's ideas um that she has been doing for over 14 years this is not new this is a pattern um and I I cannot I'm I'm I'm I'm just so grateful that these children a were taken out of out of that care not care but out of custody from them she she believes this this is the thing that that she fully believes in her own she believes that she is inspired by God jod jod jod yeah and so when you believe when you have that level of delusions of grandeur you are so powerful and so convincing to people and she and when you and when you when you when you uh preface it as a I'm doing this because I'm saving their soul in a in a in a system and in a culture that I mean she's just playing right into it she's just playing right into those hands of like of course I want my child's soul to be saved of course yeah no pornography pornography is the worst thing is just is so evil she believed if you watch porn her belief is if you watch porn one time you're an addict and if you're an addict which that would make most people of the universe an addict um then you need surgery because you are sick and Satan is working through you and so and I think she I think it also plays into this like you special kind of belief that I think a lot of people like the Mormon Church kind of instills which is something that I had to like really unlearn because I I I held on to this belief for a long time that like oh all of the suffering is for a purpose all of the suffering is preparing me all of the suffering is is is uh you know um purifying me it's making me humble it's making me teachable you know like job um and I think a lot of people justify or rationalize behavior and treatment because of that I'm just speculating here but one of the things that is so bizarre about this is how much projection jod has in addition to this interview Jesse also mentioned how much jod has criticized the church how much she hates men specifically that the vast majority of men are evil including church leaders and how some of the leaders are actually idiots but that jod had all of the answers almost in the way of jealous y or bringing somebody down just because they have what you want and in Jody's case I believe that it was power Jesse also said one of the most chilling things to me and it was if jod was born a man it's terrifying to think about how much power she would have recently the affidavit for the search warrant of Jody's house was released and it revealed just how disgusting the children were treated according to the warrant when officers arrived they observed the wounds and the malnourishment of the child to be severe and he was transported to the St George Regional Hospital the child was placed on a medical hold due to his deep lacerations from being tied up with rope and from his malnourishment in the report it states they were abnormally thin and weak the child told medical personnel and police that his wounds were from the rope and that it was used to tie the victim to the ground the child identified jod as the one who put the Rope around their ankles and wrists and that she used cayenne pepper and honey as a mixture and smeared it into the wounds as a way to dress the wounds duct tape was used to both bind the child and dress the lacerations police also found two sets of handcuffs rope duct tape and cayenne pepper and honey paste next to medical gauze dressings in the documents it also said that Ruby left her three children in the care of Jodie officers also seized three iPhones and five Mac computers from the house as well as Jody's iPhone so just as Jesse has said in interviews jod is still doing the same thing I think she's making things up about Ruby's son Russell and honestly trying to make him so physically uncomfortable that he confesses or gets out of his Distortion and then goes along with all of the ideology of connections when I was going through the podcast episodes just the names alone I kept thinking why is there such a focus on children or teens and giving advice to parents about how to in my opinion control them or shape them to Jody's standards regarding sexuality and even just that statement alone is so creepy but so many episodes were about that what is this Obsession about these sexual elements in children it's absolutely sickening and again I think this is serious projection on Jody's part and I say that because in some of my other videos and episodes on here when I dove into this a little deeper she is so completely fixated on men having an obsession and addiction to masturbation to pornography to all of these things but then if we go back to what she wrote in the early 2000s about Mormon women about them speaking and coming into their own sexuality to me and this is again just my opinion it feels like projection because perhaps she was struggling with her own sexuality her own impulses things she felt were unpure or sins and then she started started projecting that onto men as though their actions their urges their material that they watched in the privacy of their own home was a sin and that it put them in Distortion I think it all stems from her herself that's just my opinion though what do you think in one of the connections podcast episodes from November of 2022 Ruby talks about medical gauze on children's wounds and it is so disturbing but it's also so specific to what they were just arrested for and what the police found at Jody's house recently of course it could be a coincidence that Ruby happened to make up the exact example her children would later suffer from but uh I don't really think so you cannot you cannot put welts on your child's legs and then lovingly apply gauze and expect healing now you might help the scars go away but the spirit has absorbed the hatred and the Venom you cannot lie to your business partner and then so my question is how many other parents were given this exact same advice and more than that how the hell is she still convincing parents to do this again it feels so eerily similar to Lori and Chad deel where it seems like Lori was extremely susceptible to these ideas being truths I think it's very similar to Ruby being susceptible to Jody's parenting advice being like the word of God or holier than thou not only because of her profession but because of her ideological teachings and the things that we show and share and the things that many of you are criticizing and calling abusive are actually things that mental health professionals have uh counseled us to do we got accused of child abuse when we sent Chad to anastasi guess what the first thing that they did was take a bed away they they don't have beds people are really triggered and so if you are triggered and you're upset because of something Kevin and I have done with our children that is actually working really well for us then I would invite you to look at it and ask yourself what what is it that I'm projecting onto this situation Kevin literally says they aren't doing anything wrong and that everything was at the advice of a therapist which of course that therapist is Jodie and this was all to justify their parenting styles to the public this is just my opinion and speculation but part of me wonders if for specifically there was another element here it's been speculated that Ruby has some characteristics of narcissism and if we were to pretend that's true and she is well wouldn't Jody's entire message and ideology give Ruby the biggest confirmation bias of all time because now she's hearing from an expert an expert therapist in family and marriage-based counseling that maybe her ideas of harsh punishment meant that she was actually the best parent that she was enlightened she was an enlightened being she was right the whole time everybody else is wrong and she used that as a way to feel justified in her actions and make her believe further that she's doing this for her children to save their souls and if that's true what's in it for jod in all of this what is her motive in all of this personally I think she saw Ruby as a meal ticket a Mormon mom influencer with a very large following that jod could use as a way to spread her ideology and thinking to the world which yes I know it's insane but I can see it a lot of these Mormon moms in that community and who follow the LDS Faith loved Ruby's family loved watching the passengers videos idolized them until the parenting Styles got a little bit controversial but loved them so I if jod were to step into that and say I'm the family counselor I'm the family therapist this family trust me don't you think that these Mormon mothers who maybe were Wann toe vloggers Maybe not maybe just idolized from afar this family but don't you think that if they were to Bear witness to all of that it would carry weight with them so that if they were having issues within their own families within their own marriages they could reach out to jod and say oh my gosh jod who helped Ruby Frankie's family who works with them who works with the eight passengers Channel she's going to help my family it's only x amount of dollars write the check let her help us it seems like a very smart tactic and honestly not very far-fetched in my opinion also many of Jody's past clients have spoken out against her saying that she destroyed marriages and has a pattern of isolating the husbands is it possible that jod got Kevin out of the way through her marriage counseling and recommendations to Ruby possibly it seemed like she hated men she hated everything about them whether they were children or grown up grown men seemed like she just hated males that she was going to either break them apart from their marriages whether they were in a happy marriage or unhappy marriage she she was going to label them as being in Distortion because they looked at another woman wrong because they flirted because they have thoughts of sex which hi news flash literally almost every man on the planet has those visions and thoughts of women and like yeah like let's just call it what it is like I don't think that's living in Distortion what you do with those thoughts and how you act on it that's a whole different conversation but it seems like jod really just had like a complex hating men wanting money wanting power and to have control over women and how they parented their children but that's not even the worst part or what blew my mind the most in all of my research another parallel from the valow DeBell case is this Situation's isolation of Ruby's spouse and later her kids if you haven't heard of the channel hidden True Crime it is honestly one of my favorites Lauren and Dr John have covered this in depth this case as well as so many others so be sure to go and check out their Channel And subscribe their Channel link and all of their information for their show will be in the show notes and the description but JN is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist with 30 years of experience in both clinical and forensic work he created a diagram and a theory about the inner workings of Jody's belief systems and how she uses them under the guise of therapy and connections and it is absolutely brilliant it's okay if we're doing harmful things to people but because because a mental health professional told us it's okay right which by the way the other part of this is blaming the victim like that you know you know there I mean we'll get into that more later but let let's just say that um this is troubling this perspective and um to say the least TR but it also speaks to the power Dynamic this this by the way is another reason that mental health professionals have such binding ethical codes because in many mental health professional relationships many therapeutic relationships there's a power inbalance there's a power differential you go to someone you go to a therapist with When You're vulnerable with a lot of of shameful information and then you disclose it to someone who is supposed to help you process or understand or cope with that information and so the person that you're going to for help clearly in that Dynamic has power over you they're in what we call oneup position and so that would be true of jod as well every client that came to her for help with parenting or parenting practices or marital difficulties they're all vulnerable we heard this from several of her patients one of the one of the patients we heard from said that she was extremely vulnerable she was traumatized she was having marital problems and she went to jod in a state of disrepair yes she was very needy and she believed that jod completely took advantage of that so so that's part of this clearly is that that power differential yes what I think the guiding beliefs are in this case and I want to talk about that we're going to break that down a little bit and try to explain it but let's start with at the very top you'll see what I call an addiction mindset so one of the most interesting things that that came out of some of the people we talked to this week was that people said over and over that jod believes everyone is an addict so even if you're not an addict so people would push back on that and say I'm not an addict I don't have this problem I I don't have you know I I I don't do drugs I don't do whatever the addiction is jod would disagree and tell them repeatedly you're an addict so uh Adam Ste was quite Frank about that I can mention his name because you did the interview Adam Ste said that jod was really adamant about saying everyone is an addict we heard from another previous client of jod that said quote everyone has an addiction if you try to tell her that you don't have an addiction she will disagree with you and convince you that you have an addiction so jod is is very much invested in this idea of what I call the addiction mindset you can see that at the top and the reason that's important is because we're going to get in we're going to get into this idea of sin and sinners which is a big part of her belief system system and to me this addiction mindset is very much similar when I thought about this and I was trying to put it in context it's very similar to the idea of original sin I think in the sense that whether you you are an addict or not it doesn't really matter everyone is born an addict and the goal is because you're an addict and because you're unhealthy and because you're in Distortion and we'll talk about that in a minute that you need to find the truth the only way to free yourself from addiction is to find the truth and to find healing and the way you heal is through what jod calls spiritual surgery spiritual surgery is casting out all sin or removing sin or at least getting someone to confess sin so you you begin with this addiction mindset whether you're an addict or not doesn't matter you know and again if I reference Adam Ste Adam Ste was a victim of abuse as a child he went through a horrific trauma you can listen to Lauren's interview for more details but he went to see he was referred to jod for treatment and he was placed in a group to help him with treatment and here's the mindboggling part about this story is that he's a victim clearly a victim that was documented very well goes to see jod she puts him in a group for offenders and she tells him well you're really an offender you just don't know it yet but I'm going to show you that because of the way you think because you have an ad addiction mindset because you're an addict that you're really an offender and that that just that blew me away at first when I heard that I thought no that that didn't happen like if I if I brought a victim into one of my offender groups and I've done offender groups for for years I would lose my license or I I would I would probably feel so guilty about it I would give my license up like you don't bring victims into offender groups and then try to convince the victims that they're really offenders that is just not best practice it's it's actually it's it's Unthinkable but it goes back to this idea of addiction mindset and as Adam pointed out whether you're an addict or not it doesn't matter to jod you're an addict because you're born a sinner and the goal is to cast out sin so we're all born Sinners we all have some some satanic components we're all I guess demonic to some degree and uh we'll later learn that she she calls that Distortion that's a used that's a word she uses all the time it's a word that Ruby uses all the time by the way so anybody anybody who's ever been to see jod will use the word distortion on repeat endlessly that's that's her big word distortion so I'm gonna make a t-shirt that says distorted and proud you know I don't want your truth I'm good being distorted leave me alone Jody okay I I want to point out that I I'm not sure I'm not sure where jod was when her theories of psychotherapy classes were being taught but I I don't know if she was present but this idea of responsibility is obviously key to many therapies like jod jod thinking that this is somehow original or unique to her is absurd that I can I can I can name a few therapies right off the top of my head that put responsibility and choice at the Forefront I just mentioned that she's essentially using cognitive behavioral ideas perceptions lead to emotions lead to be that's CBT she's she's ripping off CBT and saying it's hers and then uh this idea of choice and responsibility existential Psychotherapy which probably finds its roots in like the 1950s 60s the basis of existential Psychotherapy is responsibility some of you may remember the French philosopher Jean Paul chra who said that we're all condemned to be free that we're we all have to make choices in life we're all ultimately responsible for our own behaviors these ideas are not new to jod hilderbrand but she wants you to believe they are so that was honestly just a tiny slice of the knowledge and the incredible Insight that Lauren and Dr John have and I think that we will be doing a collaboration soon I've had them on the podcast before and I want to have them on again to really share a deep dive into jod hilderbrand's mind and even the mind of Ruby Frankie how these people allow themselves if Ruby did in fact get brainwashed at all to an extent how it works how does the mind control work how does a cult leader or person like this truly break the other person down to believing and hanging on their every word so a collab is coming soon so stay tuned for that but in the meantime definitely go check out their podcast their YouTube channel because they have so much Insight we are going to hear from the last sponsor of today's episode and I'm going to break down for you exactly how this all worked what some people have said in public and just how deep and crazy this really goes so at this point in researching this case I became convinced that this was absolutely no doubt in black and white a cult there we are hi we are live in uh Mapleton Utah at um uh a home of somebody who is learning how to be a mental fitness trainer and we have Ruby here and Ruby is is a part of the original 10 women that are being trained to become mental fitness trainers so Ruby you want to tell us about what a mental fitness trainer is yes so we are getting mentally fit the same way your body would get physically fit by running and lifting weights and working with a personal trainer we are getting ready to be your mental fitness trainer we're getting truth really easy to teach we're we're making it very simple boiling it down to principles that's how you're going to understand truth is really knowing principles being able to put words to it and help you and you're going to feel so much better absolutely so I'm just going to span over here we've got uh I can't see there we go Tori and Sher how you feeling about what you're what you're getting ready to go out and do teaching truth to the world excited so exciting excited yeah coming to a town near you and here's Kim and Jess hello Becky Liz Michelle and then we got got Johnny over there Johnny and Johnny and Johnny and me there's did you get Pam no Pam's over here Pam Hello Johnny Johnny is our um our our uh male uh person who comes in and does the role play for the male so we can practice so he's uh he's quite talented to uh do the role plays with us so we appreciate Johnny Johnny's a man of Truth as well and he's also a mental fitness trainer so so glad that you're uh with us and any of you who are interested in becoming a mental fitness trainer we are going to open that up uh to train other people so give us a call or email us at support connections classroom.com and uh maybe you can come to the next uh Retreat for the come workout with us that come work out put you to work bye it has all of the makings of a cult down to a tea and someone who left connections almost a year ago commented about the reasons why she left online she said there are six reasons why I left connections even though I had already learned good things and prepaid for 3 months of group which wasn't over at the time she left the first one was shame based learning she said they drill The material through put downs and labeling it's even traumatic for some people and they say if you disagree with them then you are wrong even though they teach you that there's no right or wrong and they intensely shame you for it even though they teach against feeling shame second is crazy making they teach you that your reality is off to not trust your own judgment they tell you that you did something that you didn't even do and when you can verifiably see that you didn't they gang up on you and aggressively repeat over and over that you are wrong and that you did that thing and you have to admit it or they will cut you off their terrible communication until you admit you did this terrible thing to any people individually in Connections phone calls and in the group setting you'll all be cut off they won't let you move on until you admit it even if you really don't see that you did that thing and you can't just admit that you did it you have to show that you feel really bad about it using the steps of repentance but in a Twisted way it's confusing because the principles they are teaching are true and good and yet something feels off it wasn't until I got disentangled from it that realized that it feels off because you can't learn from them unless you're willing to compromise your integrity and just comply the third reason was using God to push their point saying if you disagree with them you are disagreeing with God the fourth reason is an environment that breeds codependency their method is quite effective for helping those with addictions come off of their addiction it's absolutely amazing if I had an addiction I might actually sign up again unfortunately it appears they are trading one dependency for another jod has people working for her that don't get paid they seem just to be happy that she trusts them with the responsibility I asked her in conversation how many people she had working for her that she paid and she evaded the question she also teaches against individuality it's set up for you to remain in it one lady in my group said it was her last week in the group and then thanked everyone for helping her learn but then many women ganged up on her and shamed her for leaving so she stayed those who learn from her in groups and individually spend about $10,000 per year to connections and they have done this for years scared to quit due to their own dependency it is unacceptable to work on changing what you want to change in your life I started the group with three specific areas of my life that seemed unmanageable to me that I wanted to change they said I was in Distortion if I wanted to focus on those they require hours of indoctrinating in their methods each day and you have to track it as well if you you spend less time because for instance you're sick or on vacation or it's Christmas they shame you for it and aggressively say that you've dropped responsibility the fifth reason being that they talk bad about you behind your back when they find something wrong with you instead of teaching you about that thing getting curious about it if they are even right about the Assumption they are making they aggressively tell others about it they talked negatively and aggressively about me and the men's group and jod individually talked badly about me to someone else during his $175 an hour one on-one with her they called someone I love to talk bad about me and he having been deeply embedded in connections listened and didn't stop them from this inappropriate behavior it's a completely different and intense Community with a completely different language they Define so many words differently which I think is generally helpful and common with therapists but this is Extreme and the last reason being that connections promotes cutting people out of your life praise isn't given in the group for learning A New Concept it's given when you set unhealthy distancing boundaries with your loved ones she advocates for leaving spouses at the drop of a hat instead of working together when there is a problem the principle of being responsible for your own stuff is true but that's not what this is this is Fault finding and then using that as evidence to push people away as far as I know jod herself is estranged from everyone in her family and has very few friends it teaches an richest man in Babylon that you couldn't learn how to be rich from those who aren't rich likewise it doesn't make sense to learn how to connect with people from someone who isn't able to connect herself now all of this not only of course obviously screams cult leader tactics but the cult that it reminded me of almost immediately and tell me if you were drawing this conclusion as I was reading those examples to you but it totally felt parallel to me with Nexium if you're not familiar with Nexium don't you worry that's probably going to be coming in October as a deep dive but Keith Riner who is like in my opinion just the ultimate creep of All Creeps he was the cult leader of Nexium which essentially has been dubbed in pop culture as the sex cult it had the famous actress from Smallville Allison Mack and a bunch of others but one of the tactics and one of the most interesting things about this cult was that the principles it was providing and the teachings that it was providing were actually rooted in truth and rooted in good and things that helped these people so while they were in this cult for so long they started seeing certain aspects of their life get better which further embedded them into the teachings thinking that this person truly was you know a higher being or a higher level or had all of this like insane immense knowledge and they just would hang on his every word hookline Sinker until it got so crazy that people were branding themselves having sex with him having sex with each other weird weird stuff but I bring up the parallel with nexi because not only were the principles apparently rooted and good and truly did help people but Keith riner's co-conspirator and person right alongside him which I'm drawing a blank on her name at the moment she and her daughter were also involved heavily in the leadership of Nexium and they I in my opinion based on the documentaries and the research that I've done I think they were in fact brainwashed by Keith himself I don't think they were trying to run this cult for power for money like he was although equally like hand inand with him they were responsible for a lot of this I think that they saw the good that was coming in their own lives they felt that they were doing good providing good to these people because they were having these positive experiences to where then they became more credible in the organization their words became more credible in the cult not realizing that they were just a pawn in Keith's master plan and they became an authoritative figure in it and a leadership figure in it not even realizing until he went on trial and all of this stuff was made public and people's testimony was brought that's the only point in time in which they realized holy something's wrong here I can't believe I was responsible and participated in this and it feels very much in line with everything we just heard and what we know about Connections and jod hilderbrandt as well so was Ruby the sidekick to Jodie as Keith rer and his sidekick which again her name I'm sorry I apologize I'm drawing a blank on it Nancy salsman that is the name I was looking for so is Ruby Frankie the Nancy salsman to jod hilderbrand Keith rener or is she truly complicit and is it the Keith rer 1.0 Keith rer 2.0 and they're both on the same level and have the same ideologies I don't know it feels very very odd to me and it also gets worse Jody's niece Jesse also said and I quote I think also because of the way the church is structured kept her from doing more damage but she believed that her work was combating Satan every day in preparation for the second coming she believed because my grandfather had some sort of patriarch blessing saying that he was going to work directly for Jesus on this Earth so he always believed that the second coming was going to happen in his lifetime but she used that language also to fuel her belief that the second coming is close she felt like she was going to be one of the people who welcomes God back or ushers in the second coming of Jesus again these are not theoretical these are not hypothetical she believed these in a very literal sense she believed these in literal actual this is all very literal to her that God literally was going to come and and and thank her for all of her hard work and all of like all of the good that she has done because she is fighting tooth and nail on the front lines of Satan and how do you argue with that so hearing that about the second coming and ushering the people in hey what does that sound like good old Chad dumbbell right Peter Griffin right so that's kind of a scary thought in itself to think about which sorry I know I'm kind of going off here on a tangent but you have Keith Riner who is a cult leader who it turns into a sex cult he's evil he's disgusting parallel to him right across the road you have Chad deel who has a religious cult who talks about zombies Evil dark spirit it's all of these things you put those two together and it's like a asteroid hits and it's jod hilderbrandt who believes in hurting children who believes in the second coming who believes that she is God's greatest asset to save marriages and families it is like the most toxic disaster of all time it's like these two cult leaders walked so that jod could come in here and run and let me just say we very rarely hear about a woman cult Le leader so I'm very curious to know what type of power and control she truly has over these people she must really be selling herself and laying it on thick now if all of this is true what does this mean in regards to Ruby's children we have heard that they were severely malnourished some one of our sources gave us some inside information on the extent of the injuries and oh I think you can say that so it so we learned that that and we haven't confirmed this but we we've heard from very close sources from sources very close to this situation that some of the injuries to RF I won't say the name but some of the injuries to ARA who's the 10-year-old I mean I'm sorry the 12-year-old who escaped that we heard that some of the injuries were bone deep that the the restraints and the duct tape had had cut to the Bone that's serious that's serious child that is not the sort of thing that typically I would expect someone to be released on probation for the neighbors have commented and I'm glad that those kids got help and they weren't leaving in body bags Lauren touched on this in one of her episodes and summarized it perfectly I want to touch on this and then we'll read the next comment the similarties similarities to Lori deel and Chad deel are Eerie this will happen again given the right or wrong set of circumstances nothing seems to have changed in the fals in the uh to protect the vulnerable and I I just want to reiterate one more thing again um I'm I'm digging deep and we've covered deell for three four years I have dug deep into everyone involved uh three and a half years I guess it's coming on it's coming on four years it's crazy it's wild uh I want to reiterate again I've talked a lot when it comes to deal case we've talked a lot about the book visions of glory and how that affected Chad D and Lorie B's beliefs uh the preparing of people conferences uh that gave Chad a platform um Tom Harris and a Spencer in the visions of Glory book and and one thing that really concerns me is how they teach visions and dreams um and and I'm I'm I'm getting very very concerned about this group because jod hild debrandt that that video we were playing last week she was speaking at the Eternal core conference which is done by Tom Harrison the the one who had the uh near-death experiences and visions of Glory that many of these people consider scripture I mean it's all too intertwined it is so similar and these are people that are they're mingling together so I can't help but now see a pattern it's one thing to have you know the Dell case was a never you know like what in the world now that we we're seeing two cases of abuse of children I mean it was was more than abuse with JJ and tyly but um it could have been more with with R and E too but I'm getting very very concerned once you start to see a pattern there's a serious problem and um agree so we're keeping an eye on this this case is I don't want to see this again it makes you wonder how far does this go how many people believe in these same things the paral with the visions of Glory book and all of this are just so interconnected in truly the most disturbing way in the beginning of this episode I mentioned that there is a bigger problem that needs more awareness and this is it whatever is happening in these groups or their beliefs their demonization in children is extremely dangerous disturbing and truly unfathomable Ruby and jod are still in custody Ruby's last court appearance was pushed back after her lawyer asked for a continuance to have more time saying they had copious amounts of evidence to go through as this case continues to develop and more information comes out I will definitely keep you guys posted there is so much more to this too I just didn't want to be on here for 6 hours with you guys so if you liked this video or felt like it was informative please comment and let me know if you guys would like to see more of it because it goes way deeper I could be on here for hours hours hours talking to you about the depths of connections and Cults alike and with that spoiler alert I'm just going to say it now but an official announcement is coming soon I am doing cult October where we are going to do a deep dive on a new cult every single week that's not going to be over here on the podcast though that's going to be over on my YouTube channel T to life so make sure you're subscribed over there so that you don't miss those you can also listen to it as an audio just like a podcast if you're driving but that's where those are going to live and again an official announcement will come soon that gives you guys the dates all of that stuff so you don't miss them but we're going in we are going in on flds we are going in on Scientology we are going in on Sarah Lawrence we are going in on so many all right guys thanks again for tuning in to today's episode if you would please take a quick second rate this podcast leave a review with more types of cases you want to hear about whether it is Cults or something else and let me know what you guys like or dislike about this podcast so I can cater it more to you and I would really appreciate it guys it'll take 30 seconds just quickly rate review over on Apple podcast or over on Spotify and again I will be coming back with more deep Dives on this case and many more very soon other than that I will see you bright and early this Thursday morning for headline highlights where we are going to go over all of the Breakin cases this week that are happening in the True Crime World new cases updates and cases all of it we are going to talk about it this Thursday during headline highlights and as a reminder if you still need extra True Crime and you're looking for an even bigger True Crime fix I am posting adree bonus episodes every single Friday of new cases so if you want want to sign up for access to that you can do that either over on Apple podcast or through patreon which I will link in the show notes below but it's just for those of you who want a little bit extra of a true crime fix you want to add free you want to hear the stories that's for you and if you go over to patreon you can also get access to other things such as our private group chat where we're talking True Crime every day private live streams I mean you name it so check that out all right guys thanks so much for tuning in today it is your true crime besti Annie signing off and I hope you have a safe week I will be talking to you again very very soon all right bye [Music] guys

Channel: Law&Crime Network

Views: 154,895

Keywords: law and crime, law and crime network

Id: ZhhHMti4fl8

Length: 79min 39sec (4779 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 13 2023