The Dangers of Andy Stanley | Ep. 85

[Music] thank you for joining us for this edition of the G3 podcast I am Virgil Walker I'm joined by Josh Bice and Scott annel how you guys doing fantastic good to be with you good I'm glad to be here as well looking forward to this conversation it's going to be an interesting conversation a needful one a very needful one that said before we get teed up with where we're going I want to just make you aware of the Reformation conference we want you to join us for the Reformation conference May 9th through the 11th right there in Dallas Texas uh we want you to be with us at Countryside Bible Church there in South Lake uh Josh Bice will be with us Joel beaky Paul waser and and others other speakers are going to be joining us we're going to be adding speakers absolutely to this as well so hopefully you'll be able to attend get on G3 men.org and get registered today I don't want to take a lot of time because I know we've got a lot of ground to cover uh that said Josh I'm actually going to toss things to you uh you've written an article recently uh about our subject and uh wanted to give you the opportunity to kind of Tee It Up for our audience yeah we're going to be talking today about Andy Stanley we're going to be talking about the fact that again my article the title says the wolf is out of the closet I chose those words intentionally because I do believe that Andy Stanley is indeed a wolf and this was his coming out of the closet officially coming out of the closet moment you might say um although he's really been out of the closet for a while um we're going to talk about that um this was sort of his definitive moment in case anyone was wondering yeah he's made it very clear but really what we need to emphasize I think at the beginning of this conversation today would be the fact that if you're watching this podcast and you're thinking hey you know it's a bit it's a bit uh I don't know like harsh to just go after someone in the way that you're going after them sometimes we get emails I get checked on Twitter or I you know get a an email that comes across my desk about asking did you go to Andy Stanley personally right right did you go and did you follow Matthew 18 well keep in mind um Andy Stanley is not a member of my local church Andy Stanley is a public figure he is speaking out in the open uh he is communicating clearly and loudly and so for me to address something that he said in the public sphere as someone who's not a member of our local church for me to critique that and for me to address that is not inv violation to Matthew 18 if I choose to not go to Andy Stanley personally right now with that said what I will say is that you should not be shocked anyone that's been paying attention for any length of time should not be shocked at the progression of Andy Stanley because it is indeed a progression he has been progressively moving with the Winds of culture for a very long time now and we can chart that all the way back to really in many ways looking at the what's the the what's undering all of this is his commitment and lack thereof to Holy Scripture into the true Gospel of Jesus Christ but if we go back and we look at you know just the progression of Andy Stanley what you see is that way back in 2009 he was uh interviewed by Ed ster regarding his book communicating for a change and ster asked him what do you think about preaching verse by verse messages Through the Bible and that's when of course Andy came after expository preaching and said that he he thought it was just cheating yeah uh obviously you know if you want to twist the Bible the very best way to do that is to avoid at all cost expositional preaching because it's going to force you to actually follow what the word of God says in its proper context which by the way is why we at G3 are passionate about expository preaching right uh in 2010 I was actually there for it uh at the annual Southern Baptist conventions pastor's conference when Andy Stanley was uh one of the guest invited speakers to the pastor's Conference of the SBC and in his message I had actually truth be known i' had actually looked at who was speaking at what time in the pastor's conference and chosen to not be there for it uh I I chose my meal time uh to be absent from that sermon so so I was actually across town eating with a group of friends and then I came back to the convention center only to find out that they were behind schedule and I caught Andy Stanley serm about half of it wow so I was standing in the the doorway leading out to the hallway and I was listening to Andy Stanley preach or speak and and he kept quoting like massive corporations like Chick-fil-A or Intel and he kept making this phrase and saying this sentence over and over and over again to pastors he was saying if you go home and make your church better they the community will come and make your church bigger wow and he kept just really using that idea of pragmatism if you make your your landscape better if you make your production better if you make your stage set better if you make your welcome and greeting area better if you make all of your signage better then they're going to come and make your church bigger because obviously bigger is better in Andy Stanley's mindset um if you go from there you will see uh in 2015 uh Andy Stanley again he's he's dealing with the issue of of the Bible and and he uh he has a he has a a series that he released where he actually questions the reliability of scripture like like in his series he actually talks about in fact I'll just quote to you one of the lines he says we went off to college and discovered that even though the Bible was sacred it wasn't scientific even though it was something to appreciate it wasn't necessarily something that was factual even though there were stories in here and then he's referencing the Bible that were inspirational they weren't necessarily true end quote so now you can see the progression he he doesn't like expository preaching he's he's moving uh away from the trustworthiness of scripture and in 2016 on Easter Sunday Andy Stanley opened up his sermon that was addressing mainly unbelievers where he went on to suggest that there were actually uh thousands of Christians many many many Christians before there was a Bible so you see where he's trying to move people away from the Bible and then you move down to 2018 when Stanley argued in a sermon that we need to unhitch ourselves from the Old Testament so time and time and time again he moves away from the Bible resisting expository preaching inserting story after story after Story experience after experience raising up above the trustworthiness and the authority of scripture personal experience and the way that a person feels so you can connect with an audience and let me just mention this before we dive any further here this is critically important because it's the foundation by which Andy Stanley has built his quote unquote Ministry and what we need to be aware of as I stated at the beginning that Andy Stanley is indeed a wolf but he's not just like a Joel ostein I firmly believe that Andy Stanley is far more dangerous than joelin he's more convincing he's a very gifted communicator and what he says connects with an audience and a very personal way he's very dangerous one of the things that that I've come to find as as you think about all of these issues every issue you raised and and for for the most part Josh you're you're making your case you're you're laying the foundation this was the groundwork by which we should have watched uh been aware pointed out issues often when you encounter these these things the the issue the red flag that's raised or the white flag rather that's raised by folks who affirm Andy Stanley is is you know going back to what you first stated which is well you're you're you're being too harsh you're being too dramatic you're you're coming after someone and have you gone to Andy Stanley that's kind of the the the the outlay that's kind of laid there that people are are are oftentimes not wanting to address any of these issues we have to address these issues yes we do it's one of those things that that those those who are like Andy Stanley who are walking people down a path of falsehood are actually benefit when when people say little to nothing uh ex he attacked expository preaching he attacked bigger smaller churches by saying bigger churches are better he attacked uh the the sacredness of scripture by saying it's not scientific he attacks the Old Testament and we're to say nothing yeah all the while we're not to attack him so he gets a free pass for all these things that he wants to say yeah he he we need to address these attacks because of his influence I agree with you Josh He is very manipulative very uh knows how to communicate knows how to slip in certain statements that will satisfy one set of audiences while at the same time he's actually saying something else and we can talk about some of that later but I think it's not only because of his influence that we need to address this but you touched on this a moment ago Josh when you were talking about his message of the SBC he's not he's not unique he is indicative of of a movement of many other pastors some of whom are far less influential some of whom are just as influential who are driven by problems of pragmatism of church growth ideology and so many more issues that's really what what's driving them and so in in a sense we are addressing Andy Andy Stanley individually because of his influence and and even recent uh things that have happened but really what we're going to say today in this episode is more broadly addressing fundamental root problems that are at the heart of many many churches across this country and even the world yeah yeah in fact if you if you think about what I stated earlier the foundation by which he has built his ministry is on uh a foundation of pragmatism rather than the word of God that will then shape how you do worship so Scott as we think about uh Stanley and his progression we're going to talk about in just a few minutes we're going to talk about his his latest coming out moment where he's very much affirming homosexuality in the church and the difference between Andy and Paul is going to be very clear yeah but it will also affect how a church worships so talk to us a little bit about their practices I think that's key like the whole the whole church methodology is impacted these recent things are just but another set of symptoms like you've been talking about of these of these root problems and so it impacts every everything about their their their Church Church including how they structure how they design what they do in their worship Services uh I just have here a couple Clips to play just you know I was just talking to to someone recently who said you know that that people in their church are like Andy Stanley that's Charles Stanley's son he's good right I think a lot of people just don't know what's going on in this church so I think it's going to be useful actually to play some of these these examples for example January 9th of 2022 the very first Sunday of the new year that year uh this was the call to worship right at the beginning of the service I'll just I'm going to dive kind of in the in the middle of [Music] it okay so I'm gonna pause because that's all I can take but that that is okay that is we can talk about worship music in a moment but that's not even a Christian song that is that is a cover of a Leed Zeppelin song right right right there in the in the very first uh um service of the year uh uh that's that that's their call to worship and I want you to listen to to then what's what Stanley says here as as the uh Services is continuing Taylor unbelievable and uh just so you know Chris was homeschooled so there that'll teach you this is the beginning of their service you can be seated for just a minute unbelievable yes I saw those grins pamel holiday I think you were the first person was Pamela who was over here that stood up first right here on the corner was that you that stood up first you just couldn't help yourself yes it was the call to worship so so he's even acknowledging there this was the call to worship they're using a Song by Led Zeppelin as the call to worship couple more examples here this is uh this is a couple of years ago uh they right again right in the middle of the service played or performed this fight song song which again is a secular piece what you going to say don't want you be just like me anyway just like fire this is my so a song about you know a woman sort of getting up in her own strength and and defeating All Odds uh using that in their corporate worship did a whole sort of '90s boy band medal uh here a couple years ago that's that's good stuff yo fellas y'all ready to do this yeah again this is the the service opener IE the call the [Music] work oh my gosh that you know I've got a clip too here of one Virgil Walker that was on uh can we cue that up right quick heard Walker one on any of that that's some nonsense I've got some receipts Virgil I've got some I've got some videos not for a call to worship I've been saving it for this moment for a call to worship you don't the problem is we could go on and on I really don't feel like it but I mean just example after example of of again we can talk about the the the quote unquote worship music here if we want but these are not even these are secular pop songs that they're using in the context of their corporate worship I didn't even play where where Andy explained why they let the band do the the the lead Z they're like well we just got to let the band do what they want to do sometimes and just kind of air it out so that we can get them to do what we what we really need them to do you know in corporate worship uh you know songs about I mean you know songs about really sexual encounters but they're somehow renegotiating them I guess in their mind uh for the context of of their worship services but again this is indicative of the underlying pragmatism right this is their their thinking is and it's not new it comes you know from long years of church growth philosophy right which argues that we need to use music that will be comfortable and familiar to The Seekers who are in our congregation to get them you know comfortable and to get them so that we can we can communicate the gospel to them I mean years and years ago Ed Dobson said that we need to use in church a style of music that will get unchurched people moving in a physical way that will break down their defenses so then that we can win them to Christ right so we we organize and structure our services in such a way uh based on unbelieving preferences of what unbelievers are using Seekers yeah Seekers quote unquote right so again this is just in this this is not new uh and unfortunately there are many many churches around the world and around the country who are doing the same thing sometimes looking at the example of someone like Andy Stanley's church which like you said earlier is so huge look at all of look at all these people who are being impacted by the gospel and so we need to follow his methodology and are copying the same sort of thing as you as you watch this trajectory it begins kind of with with the music and the style and all of what's happening I've seen churches across the country kind of move to this kind of an opener where they've got some secular song that they kind of get people moving to and then I don't even know how the transition Works uh but they try to roll into some I don't know worshipful uh music I don't even know how that work but here's the problem right they they're using these these secular pop you know songs which by the way let me just say right away I don't think there's anything wrong with listening to secular music in other words music that's not designed for corporate worship or music that's not uh doesn't have sacred lyrics right there there's there's certainly um value to that not not in corporate worship though and even the secular music we listen to ought not to have sexual condent con you know content sexual indu inuendo which even some of these songs do but here's here's my even bigger problem that's really what's driving them right obviously that that band they love playing lead Zeppelin so now they're going to write worship songs well what is informing their musical language and the kinds of songs that they're going to write so they might have lyrics that are ostensibly theologically correct but they've they've bought into and so many Christians have they've bought into the false narrative that music is neutral they've bought into the false narrative that all we need to do is have Christian lyrics and that makes it a song worthy for corporate worship but they're taking their cues from the world they're being impacted by the world and so it ought not be surprising for us when worldly ideology begins to influence other areas of their theology as well yeah yeah it's it's a progression it starts with music I I I pulled up an old uh old tweet that I actually received from Andy Stanley back in the day uh and this was about the issue of women pastors uh I I posted a tweet that said if your if your pastor is a woman she's not a pastor she's a feminist who ignore scripture and and and basically just laying out the ca the biblical case that men are to serve qualified men are to serve in the role of Pastor well Stanley responded by saying rude and Incorrect and uh that that got a lot of attention in fact he what what resulted uh was our dear friend Phil Johnson responded in a way that really was not uh was not was not beneficial uh for him or for the like but again I I share that to to to continue to make the case Josh that you're making which is no no one should be surprised by the trajectory of where things land at the end of the day absolutely absolutely and and again it it it really starts with a walking away from the Bible and when you walk away from the Bible then you're going to have uh you know the Winds of culture will impact how you worship because you're trying to reach unchurched people in an unchurch Type of Way giving them what they want giving them what they want and then the entire model of your local church ministry becomes about the person instead of about God himself which is the the massive problem with all of this so yeah again back in the day I've had you know times where I've been calling out Andy Stanley in fact I've I've seen this article has been shared a number of times on social media but I've also seen lots of people suggesting that we're late comers to the party almost suggesting that we've been waiting for far too long before we've called out Andy Stanley we just let it all be known that um I've been actually calling out Andy Stanley for the last 10 or 15 years in sermons that I've preached even in articles that I've written um some of which have actually uh gained the attention of Andy Stanley he's instant messaged me you know on X before uh back when it was Twitter um trying to bring about correction to some of the things that I've stated about him that he felt was actually incorrect we've had some dialogue back and I've asked him to meet with me so that I could confront him he's uh avoided those opportunities but suffice it to say this progression has been very much intentional by Stanley he's been looking at the Winds of culture and he's trying to shape his church with where he sees the winds blowing I just make a quick comment about this latecomer thing too we don't have to get into details but we've actually lost relationship with a vendor that we've used for conference because he was upset about your comments about absolutely so uh We've experienced the the the cancel culture here at G3 leading up to this last National Conference where a major vendor that was uh at the at the heart of pulling off what we do at a National Conference um we were you know right in the middle of all of our plans to roll out everything you know to to to make it all happen and suddenly Virgil and I were traveling ing get off of an airplane and check email only to have a very long email explaining to me why it is that they're walking away from relationships with G3 Ministries and it was stated specifically because of my comments about Andy Stanley and so person who was a member of his church absolutely so this is a guy that I've known for a long time a member of Andy Stanley's church and he was um offended by my personal uh you know statements my public statements about Andy Stanley which he took personal so then I wrote him a long letter back explaining to him what we're communicating actually in this in this podcast um but but actually it it's become far worse even since that email exchange I've even had thoughts about about this you know Josh as it relates to that particular situation because it was no small it was no small matter on our part uh when we received that that email and and we we began to scramble these are plans that you put into play we you know that G3 puts into place 18 months ahead 12 months ahead of time only to figure out now we're at the N9 month Mark and and are needing to scramble on something that's major uh so we we're doing that working those issues out and I'm thinking about that as I watch what you're going to unpack for us as it relates to this this conference that that Stanley has recently promoted I'm wondering about that old friend and I'm wondering how is he in his mind justifying where Stanley is today in fact I would say a word to my old friend and I would say a word to many of people that are a part of uh North Point Church here in the Atlanta area uh Stanley in his recent uh unpublished now published sermon titled uh I love my church um has has made it clear that there are lots of families who are leaving his church and he felt it necessary to spend an entire Sunday dealing with this issue um I would encourage True Believers to actually leave his church because I think that um this man is very dangerous he's a very good communicator but he is indeed a wolf uh and anything less than fullon repentance from Andy Stanley is is is necessitating a separation from this guy um so recently that brings us to this present controversy he's been he's been progressively moving according to the Winds of culture and what we see is that there was recently this conference that was held at his church called the unconditional conference it it you know received lots of blowback and lots of criticism and so uh that really led to uh Andy Stanley uh speaking at his church uh this one specific Sunday uh here recently where he addressed all these issues but let's start with the progression this this conference the unconditional conference that they hosted was for parents of lgbtqa+ children to try to address their needs now Stanley's going to make it abundantly clear that it wasn't about helping th those children understand what the Bible says it was about something far different right but for those who are shocked by this what you need to recognize is that this problem actually started much earlier you can go all the way back to 2012 and you can find on April 15 2012 where Stanley preached this very controversial sermon when Gracie met truthy and I've linked to it in my article you can find the link there but in this sermon what he does and I'll just summarize for you is he actually starts off with the the tension of this sermon talking about how you know obviously he's going to be talking about sex and every time he talks about sex it's high attended Sunday and you get a chuckle from the audience at that point and then he starts moving to use examples from scripture like Jesus's interaction with tax collectors talking about how Tax Collectors are you know in in that culture uh were obviously uh you know despicable individuals the Jews hated the tax collectors so someone like a Matthew Levi who was operating a tax Booth would have been someone who would have been despised and so Jesus calls him to himself and then engages in a party with him in other tax collectors and so he's setting the M and then he moves to Jesus's interaction with the woman at the well and then he moves to the scene of the peric on adultery and in a very slick way he says the story that found its way into John's gospel wink wink in other words he's tipping his hand to the people that actually have a Discerning ear that that's actually not in the earliest manuscripts nevertheless he uses it and then he talks about Jesus not condemning her only to then set up the entire sermon back into 2012 to come to a very heart-wrenching story where he spends about a third of his entire sermon talking about a situation in his own church where uh a married couple and their daughter had a a a heart-wrenching horrific divorce situation that was precipitated by the fact that this woman's husband left her for another man and so now you have a homosexual man and his partner and you have this situation of breaking of a marriage and this little girl caught in the middle of it and Stanley tries to set the scene and then he works through an entire storyline to talk about this entire thing and I just want to play a couple of Clips uh in fact I want to play one specific clip from this sermon and show you kind of what he says about it as he comes to the end of this sermon and he talks about now having met with them he he actually at one point in the sermon he talks about the fact there was a confrontation when this this husband this you know this this left this wife for this other man he he's a homosexual they come to the church where she is at their church and she confronts him and in Stanley's own words kicked him out of their church and so then he went to another one of the North Point campuses in at Atlanta was received there and actually started serving and so then there had to be a conversation about how you know that wasn't going to be allowed because he was quote unquote engaged in oldfashioned adultery right never addressing the homosexuality piece only specifically talking about adultery he never even said homosexuality in his in his sermon and so then he comes to the very end he talks about how there's been this beautiful restoration of this entire scene all the way down to after now having met with him and worked through this over months and months now this woman calls and asks if at the Christmas service if Stanley would actually save some seats for them and he says how many and she said well me and my boyfriend and my daughter and my ex-husband and his partner I need six seats and then you can hear what Stanley says next just listen to this clip I was just astounded and then this story ends with this past Christmas I got a call about a week before Christmas we had lots of extra Christmas services and you know people CRA going crazy and everywhere and and they had been attending the his her ex-wife and his partner had been attending Buck Buckhead Church ever since you know she invited him back to that service and she said we want to all come to Christmas service together would you save us some seats now we don't allow saving of seats but I know people okay and so I said of course and so I asked George George helps us here at our North Point campus save seats and I I said George I need I need six seats I said well I'll ask her first I said who's coming she said well um my boyfriend his daughter me my daughter my ex-husband and his partner I need six seats and so you know halfway in our first Christmas Carol I'm sitting here I'm standing here in my corner chair singing looking up at the screen and I look across the aisle and about four people down are my six friends all singing Christmas carols together on the front row and the only thing I could think was Modern Family now that's not the first thing I thought you just have to break the tension sometimes and here's what I thought literally I thought there it is The Marvelous glorious messy pain-filled we'll get through this somehow I'm not going to be that woman it's our daughter microcosm of the church there it is truth with all its painful ramifications and Grace with all of his healing power what a mess now what we hear in that in that clip is is obviously massively problematic but if you'll notice his language very very closely he says here's a microcosm of the church talking about when Grace meets truth and the reality is is what we're going to see in this progression from 2012 to present day 2023 is that Andy Stanley and the Apostle Paul are far different obviously so Andy is saying here he's saying such are some of you Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6 such were some of you and that's what separates a false teacher from a true teacher and we need to see that clearly and so this is a progression I believe that Stanley has been setting up his church for a very long time to be fullon gay affirming homosexual affirming for many years now we come to this specific scene where we have this this unconditional conference and it was set up for a very specific purpose and you're going to hear that just listen to this is the sermon that was the originally unpublished sermon that he did not publish first they did not live stream the sermon that day but now it has been published so it's the unpublished published sermon titled I love my church listen to these clips and we'll talk about them um the way way I I view this even though we have influence outside the walls of our church I'm a local church pastor for from the way I think about this and so you and by you I mean anybody in any of our local churches or our network of churches you are my first audience so I've made it a habit to never say anything out there that I haven't said in here first and so I feel like I need to respond out there to some of the criticism but before I respond out there I wanted you to hear it from me first and that's why we chose not to stream the message online now I know there are a lot of people who came from the outside because we weren't streaming it and they just can't wait to you know get their claws into us I get that and we're so glad that you're here you we'd love for you to come every single weekend you you may gain a different perspective on us for sure but maybe even the Christian faith so I know we have some people from the outside but this is I guess symbolically my way of saying I want you to hear this from me first before the outside world hears it so back to the article so did you catch that language he's addressing at the beginning of this sermon massively cont controversial scene the recent unconditional conference he's going to explain the purpose of that conference in just a moment we're going to hear but did you notice what he says we're glad you're here you might gain a different perspective about us and the Christian faith so here it is the progression of Andy Stanley he's wanting people to see a different perspective of the Christian faith now what I will say is in this next clip you're going to hear him referencing some of the criticism that he's received and there's been articles written and he's he's specifically referring to one article that had been recently written by well-known Theologian and he's saying that his version of Christianity and Andy Stanley's version of Christianity are totally different listen to this next clip as to what he says here bottom line that version of Christianity draws lines and Jesus Drew circles he drew circles so large and included so many people in his Circle that it consistently made religious leaders nervous you hear that he's he's saying he drew circles not lines now why is that a problematic statement do you think I mean just as you hear that what's your first thought I mean it it it doesn't differentiate between or or or underestimates the importance of biblical Doctrine biblical Authority uh and and tries to portray scripture and Jesus himself as if he didn't see Doctrine important he didn't see holy living important he didn't see biblical morality important uh and therefore we ought not to draw lines that you know that it's uh it's of course a gross misrepresentation of Jesus himself which is bad enough and then like you've already mentioned several times an undermining of the very authority of scripture that's where I would land it it really it really um undermines sufficiency of scripture with Clarity which has been the pattern all along ab and so that goes back to the very beginning what we've been talking about is that this present day Andy Stanley is actually the very same Andy Stanley he's just becoming more and more clear as the years progress and so that's where we are but again it's this idea of circles rather than lines don't draw a line in the sand be a circle maker and be affirming and that's the whole point he's trying to drive home listen to this next clip he's going to tell us again this is the sermon to his church after the controversial unconditional Conference was held he's going to explain the purpose of this conference which is massively problematic just listen to this clip here so the purpose of the unconditional conference was not to equip parents to convince their gay kids that they weren't gay or shouldn't be gay that was not the purpose of the conference every parent who attended the conference had already tried that right Christian parents of lgbtq plus kids go there immediately they pull out the verses they argue they I mean that's just that's just where parents go they pull out the convince convict coers control convince convict coer control convict con you know convince convict coer control and just as a parenting strategy in general how effective is that I mean that doesn't work with your kids that didn't work on you when you were a kid the purpose of the conference wasn't to equip parents to debate with their kids the purpose of the conference of the unconditional conference was to equip parents to connect with their kids and to reconnect with their kids and to stay connected with their kids so they would have influence to keep their kids connected to their faith and keep their kids connected to Jesus so the 10 presenters or there are a few more that I think than that but the 10 plus presenters that the McDonald's invited to speak at their conference they chose the presenters based on that purpose this wasn't a debate this wasn't one side's going to present the other side it wasn't wasn't that at all they had Health Care Professionals marriage counselors mental health professionals some pastors they invited me to speak I said I don't want to speak but if you want to interview me I'd be happy to be a part of this I'm so proud of our church for hosting this the presenters these were presenters the McDonald's knew this is so important the presenters they chose were presenters that Greg and Lynn knew from their personal experience would be most helpful for these parents and they should know because they are one of those parents and this is why Justin and Brian were invited the two married gay men at the center of all the controversy and I'm sure that you've read all about that and here's the thing about Brian and Justin their stories and their journeys of growing up in church and maintaining their faith in Christ and their commitment to follow Christ all through their high school and college and S singles and all up to the time that they were married their story is so powerful for parents of gay especially kids that it's the story gay parents with gay kids need to hear did you hear that yeah so obviously he's making it clear that it wasn't their conference they hosted the conference at their Church um and then he goes on to say that he was proud of his church for hosting it and then he references the fact that these individuals that were a part of the conference invited to speak were of all sorts of different backdrops from you know mental health professionals to pastors and then he then references Justin and Brian to married keyword gay men who have maintained quote unquote their faith all the way through their school years and now they can address these these very sensitive issues with these very confuse parents and children in a conference like this you know we we we sometimes throw the word liberal around maybe too Loosely but this is a classic case of theological liberalism that's right you deny the inspiration inherency and authority of scripture you unhit yourself from that so then your faith or being connected to Jesus just becomes this sort of wishy-washy you know sentimental Feelgood religion that has nothing nothing to do with scripture nothing to do with the authority of what God has said to us for those who truly do want to follow Christ with our lives it is no different than the theological liberalism of the past so like you've already mentioned we're not talking about inner mural debates among Christian Brothers here we are talking about a wolf we are talking about somebody who has denied the authority and sufficiency of scripture and is preaching another gospel right absolutely and so the progression that I wanted wanted to help everyone see as it relates to Andy Stanley is very clear in 2012 in his sermon when Gracie met truthy he references quote unquote just good old-fashioned adultery the reason that those that that gay couple was not allowed to maintain their position in his church and serve in a serving position on a team in his church was because they were in an unlawful and the Civil realm relationship that he uh had to meet with them and confront them over okay fast forward to this specific sermon where he references Justin and Brian who were quote unquote too gay married men and so the key word is that they were married it's lawful it's lawful yeah and so uh the civil law in in our American context trumps in Andy Stanley's mind what the ible actually says how do you get around Leviticus 18:22 that says a man shall not lie with a man as with a woman it's an Abomination to the lord well the way you do that well is you unhit yourself from the Old Testament right right and again how do you how do you navigate all of this he's he's very clever he's he's he's staying right with the speed of the culture he's not getting too far ahead of the culture he's he's pacing himself right along with the culture so that so he can just sort of like lead his church to be at the same speed in the progression of the culture I'm just amazed at the language that he used that the purpose of the conference was to equip parents to connect or to reconnect with their kids and the idea surrounding that is the only way to stay connected is to affirm sinful Behavior rather than recognizing you don't have to do that in order to stay connected to your which is the whole point right he's different than the Apostle Paul who writes to the church in the city of Corinth in 1 Corinthians 6 and and and and talks about Sin he talks about different categories of sin that was very much dominating the lives of the people in the church at Corinth and he says and such were some of you right in other words that's past tense you have come out of that life it's no longer a part of who you are you are now uh changed you have been washed you have been shaped by the gospel in fact if you just look at that text it says and such were some of you but you were washed you were Sanctified you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God so what he's saying to the church at Corinth is that you're now living a life that is led by the spirit of God rather than the Winds of culture right and so that's Paul past tense Andy Stanley present tense is saying such are some of you right I mean it's the same sort of hyphenated Christianity that we've been warning about for a long time and hyphenated Christianity is a problem to begin with and when your when your your you know other other adjective hyphen is actually sin right so is he going to start a conference on helping parents you know reconnect with their lying affirming children or they're disobedient affirming children or no we yeah we want to connect with our children but we confront them we of course do that in a loving biblical way but we confront them about their sin we show them that in Christ they can be freed from that we don't simply assume well this is part of their identity and so let's have Let's Help let's connect with them and help them have this squishy feel-good sentimental uh relationship with Jesus yeah and the the validation for that is again this couple Greg and Lynn McDonald the justification for this whole direction is that they they know because they've experienced it that's the whole Jus important than scripture right so Brothers why is this so problematic when you talk about Andy Stanley's wanting to draw a circle and be affirming and and say such are some of you let's celebrate who you are rather than who you can be in Christ this circle uh aspect and methodology why is that so problematic and I would say because not only is it is it the wind of culture blowing into the church this idea of homosexuality but what's coming along that's not quite there yet pedophilia and all sorts of other transgenderism everything else so you can see that you can just see that all these different sins are being blown right into the church into the front doors of quote unquote churches like North Point and quote unquote pastors like Andy Stanley are going to welcome that right in at the speed in which the culture celebrates it right and that's the point we are seeing already people talking about well maybe pedophilia maybe this is sort of a natural thing and we have to allow for it so that's kind of the Cutting Edge he's never been right on The Cutting Edge but you can tell he's laying the groundwork and if he's if he's evidencing his willingness to embrace you know once they become sort of mainstream or lawful in the Civic sphere like you pointed out then he's willing to embrace those things and why wouldn't he Embrace whatever comes down the road from polygamy to pedophilia to who knows is coming next right and and and again I'm sure he'd push back well that's a slippery slope argument and the same was said about about gay marriage yeah it was well we won't see anything else besides that we won't see you know people making decisions about who they are is a male or female we won't see these other but that's exactly what we're seeing well yeah again again he's he's he's he's keeping speed with the law right and so the culture at the speed in which the culture moves and so right now what's one of the things that we're hearing minor attracted people right instead of talking about you know someone who's a pedophile we're actually having a new C category that's far less offensive that's what it it begins with the language so once that becomes sort of a lawful Behavior if it does you can expect figures like Andy Stanley and others that are out there that are willing to open up their church and welcome that into their Circle as well yeah once you've unhitched from the Old Testament anything things anything things in in view uh We've unhitched from that and what we're now hitched to or at least Stanley would like for people to link themselves with is his experience are his ideas is the direction that he would like to take everyone and that that's a that's a dangerous place for anyone to be it's not it's not a slippy slippery slope argument we are saying he is he is denying I I would say he's unhitching himself not just from the Old Testament from the new as well is abely shown right so so he is it's not slippery slope it is he is denying the source of our Authority and once you do that then Anything Goes that's what we're cautioning against we're not we're not you know trying to argue some sort of slippery slow argument yeah I mean his unhitching from the Old Testament was merely a means by which he's suggesting that we just need to move away from the word of God altogether he was suggesting that the New Testament Believers were unhitching themselves from the Old Testament well the New Testament Believers had a Bible and it was the Old Testament and so what he's arguing is that we should just move away from God's word all together I I got I have to go back to what you said early on which is anyone who's a part of this church who is a Believer needs to leave immediately he he is shepherding people but he's shepherding people right into the pit of Hell that's exactly where he's shepher people and they need to leave if they're Believers yeah and again for for those who might be listening to this podcast or watching this again you you might say well man G3 is like throwing fire today right well the the idea that we're talking about in the problem that we're talking about that we're trying to expose and and bring to light with Andy Stanley um is IND indicative of of really what we are about as a Ministry we love the local church we love the Gospel of Jesus Christ we love the word of God we are committed to that uh we're not a pics Ministry or a discernment Ministry um that's not what we get up and do every day but um and I'm not qualifying this at all I'm being very clear we enter into pmics and talk about you know uh issues that are uh very much controversial when we need to and we're willing to do that as a as a Ministry and so we're not afraid to talk about the hard things but in this case this is a man who is right out there in the news he's trending on social media often he's influencing large large groups of people in the Atlanta area and we would just urge you to be very very cautious of this man he is not a pastor to be followed he is a wolf to be avoided it's not like we it's not like we Advocate leaving churches lightly we don't I just talked to a man on the phone yesterday who was expressing some concerns and should have leave my church and I said absolutely not because it was an issue of inter mural debate Christian Brothers this is not that this is an attack on the Gospel of Jesus we did we did the same thing as as I began to field calls and conversations with the social justice issue folks would call Reach Out should I be leaving my church and my thought was no that's let's have conversations about what really are the issues uh rather than leaving a church but what we're talking about here is something far different uh this is someone who's made who's planted a flag in a place that opposes everything that scripture tells us uh and it's at that point that you have to make your decision am I going to draw a circle around this sinful condition uh and stay in it or am I going to draw a line and leave yeah absolutely well again we we call names and name names when we have to and when we should and I think that there's a time and place for that it's not appropriate in cases like with Andy Stan where we should just say well there's a prominent Pastor in the Atlanta area who's saying Troublesome things um in this case we need to point out the wolf who is devouring God's flock and anyone that's a True Believer in that church should leave they have justification for it yeah well here at G3 we care about local churches uh we care about educating encouraging and equipping local church pastors Our Hope would be uh that you would see this particular podcast in that vein in that light uh one that would would equip you uh provide context for you to go back and do even more research uh study the word of God and then begin talking with people around that that are questioning these issues that are challenged by these issues and so it's in light of that that again we're we're grateful that you joined us hope that you find this edifying that you'll share this with others any last words that you gentlemen have yeah my my last words Virgil would be again we would love to connect with you at some of our workshops and some of our conferences that we have planned this upcoming year you can find find out information at G3 men.org as well as this new app Scott I mean again we we have put a ton of work into this new app so G3 plus there's a lot of excitement about it a lot of people uh getting on there and seeing all the resources we're starting to see some Buzz even on social media Facebook and and acts about people appreciative so uh visit plus. G3 men.org uh lots of teaching Series so many things for your family uh for your church that you can use in the context of a small group or a Sunday school class in your in your family and those sorts of things uh so check out G3 plus it's a great resource yeah so I love about what we do not only challenge issues and question things but also provide Solutions G3 plus is a great solution for that join us next time for the next edition of the G3 podcast

Channel: G3 Ministries

Views: 66,650

Keywords: Virgil Walker, Josh Buice, Reformed, G3 Conference, G3 Ministries, G3 Podcast, Scott Aniol, G3 Plus, Andy Stanley

Id: uAUdE6fwpj0

Length: 52min 48sec (3168 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 24 2023