The Challenge of Counterintelligence Cultures

ladies and gentlemen welcome to things to to the world politics it's all because of him I wish she was here saying this I would still have a lecture now we have to have a memorial that she because she decided to move and found on us I'm going to be selfish I resent him for that I don't think of the on one Hey her drummer Steve was a mentor a genius this is a person who'd gone dispel all prejudices they were communists someone would explain claim my name is pedigree was Tommy oh they were anarcho-syndicalist 7th shelf from the left third level Facebook page 32 second paragraph he was his own computer he was Silicon Valley before Silicon Valley he specialized in to do monthly Comi honking not that he minded hunting the Ku Klux Klan but he thought a people or not a fair game the Communists wear her not only continues to inspire us but we cherish and pass on his method for me one of his greatest strengths was his humans we made the sick years jokes possible on the comments and that will disturb most of humanity almost all the onlookers why it's simple it's a coping mechanism if you deal with gore and the horrible this is one way to approach it and he helped me channel my almond mischievousness into a proper direction he did it all the time we miss him and we always tried to find worthy successors to talk in his fame today were privileged to have dr. jeong jaeyuk who told me a second ago no just introducing us an old spook the list of Jack's accomplishments is lengthy and the only thing that's not classified him is that he was a great friend of hers hey Jack specializes in deception he worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency but he's an all-around counterintelligence expert without much more ado I'm using with fluff and I like to welcome Pat Roberts and her family we're here as Mark said her in the Roman time family would good friends did a lot of work with her over the years he and I go back I think I first met him either in the late sixties early seventies [Music] one of the most memorable moments I had with her was back in 1995 when NSA and CIA ran a joint conference on the release of the Venona V Crips and it was an interesting conference it was at the National War College and in one of the auditoriums there were had a descending order of seats herb and I happen to be sitting behind one of the major perpetrators of the penetrations of the United States during and after World War two and what I found interesting about that conference was that the people who betrayed the country some of them who betrayed our country especially with the nuclear penetrations were invited to this conference and they were completely unrepentant including people from the Nation magazine and think that understand what referring to their and it so happened that we're horrible I said one of these people one of the former penetrations was sitting right in front of us I'm sitting next to her anyone who knew her knew or could be function especially hit the target like that in front of us we had a great time does this guy who's old by that and if you read a worried lately and that's one of the things I follow frequently if I see are not in there and and here was this guy that was happy don't leave his name huh and he was a little longer tooth long in the hair and he had a ponytail and so her being The provocateur that he was said Jack do you have any scissors I said herb I always carry my trusty little Swiss Army knife no scissors honor I could see this guy in front of us getting a little nervous nerd says I want to take a swipe they're cutting the ponytail and I said yeah let me try it and we they were provoking you know and I said her what are we gonna call it when we get it he says how would have we mount it in in a crane and call it the tail of a crater the Tal as it pointed this guy was none of us turn around it was our real rotten glare trained to see it was wonderful but another interesting aside from my work with her table over the years and there was a witness to this Jerry I traveled with her band Todd Levant well I think some of you know timeless is right and we were working with the active measures working for the Conner activation worship on a trip to the Middle East and we were in Israel and we had a wonderful time and the best time we had was when one of the meetings got cancelled and herb Todd and I had a free afternoon so we traveled all over we had a rental car travel all over I can those days it was before the person at the pond so it was still pretty safe and we got down to see there you go a Dead Sea we saw from a little business the caves of Qumran we wanted to get up to Masada her desperately wanted to see it and I was willing on that but I had a freak storm very unusual for Israel at that time to be here I think it was March late March early April snow sleet and win and so not only was the cable car shut down but the snake path Tony overshot that and it was one of the most memorable trips I haven't pray I cherish those memories back it was a great guy and a dear dear friend one last thing I've heard before we get into the serious business here herb was working the House Intelligence Committee and back in the late 70s and early 80s we went back to the division that I started with in my own agency I was tapped by the leadership who would say drought well we're gonna send you to get testimony to our hops we're gonna throw you off the deep end of the pool so you get experience and reaping the hops real reason for doing it was they didn't want to go they liked going to give the testimony to congressmen and Senators and being a young guy load with vinegar and otherwise they're gonna be happy to go and my point of contact for all of that was always her and one of the especially with the House Intelligence Committee hips and we had a good fortune of being able to pre coordinate before I gave my presentation so we were well prepared for what was going to be coming down the pike those memories and I turned from years of friendship thank you okay what we're going to do today is to a fast march through the issue of counterintelligence cultures you have a lot to cover in like not less than an hour but I want to get across that kind of intelligence from a perspective of the way traditional societies like Czarist Russia China for the revolution China after the Revolution Islamic societies and others have a different approach to common intelligence it is not mere slight shapes we tend to project from our own experiences we have an NIH syndrome in the United States and other Western countries as well not invented here syndrome that the way we do it is the way everybody else perforce has to do it that's not the case with these systems I want to make a case over the meeting time that we have to show how they view content so what's Monsignor happens okay there is a pedigreed and it just didn't happen in 2016 our last national what has been going on for a long time this approach counterintelligence is inseparable from deception provocation on this information from activity a medically active active measures been around for a long time it began with we're talking about the Russians what does our assistant Russia was a counterintelligence state long beach before it became the Soviet well I mean my intelligence in Czarist Russia was basically counterintelligence I'm not saying they didn't do foreign intelligence this Arsenal Ministry of his arts military dead foreign intelligence very well very effective in fact one of the best SIGINT organizations pre-war one and during war one was the Soros military SIGINT and comic capability very very capable but the focus of their security services is counterintelligence why because it was targeted on the domestic population why was that to keep the monopoly power of the system in place there's a different kind of fodder intelligence than what we're used to our counterintelligence as a signature that's more akin to security right and contrast Enoch we don't think in terms too much balloon that this was different a whole focus of the system was to penetrate real and imagined enemies keep them from overthrowing the system in power writing system now they had a real dilemma with this his are thrush huge country over well over 100 type of nationalities and they still have that problem Russian Federation right huge real estate going from the time zones of what is now Central Europe all the way to the coast of the Pacific see you Lacoste I'm chopping Sakhalin Islands etc a large area what a lot of people don't realize is that the Zara security service in later years quality okhrana literally translates to large fact if you go to Russia today and visit certain ski square those Levinsky square and you a little bianca building it's been a while since I've been there but on the corner of little Duncan building you'll see a brass plaque that says Okhrana and that means cars and the FSB basically successive to the KGB and successor to the Chekhov the successor to the Okhrana that's cards they're guarding the system protecting the system there are counterintelligence I posed as a different flavor to it so you had a huge empire but a relatively small Zara security service you know product at the peak of its size I believe it was 19:16 we had about 16,000 defectives that's not big that's tiny pro/con right all of the servers and that service didn't really do foreign intelligence in the way we think of it today or the way the old first chief Directorate of the KGB did or the way the SVR does it today the SVR actually is the first standalone civilian foreign intelligence service created in 1991 1990-1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union prior to that it was a chief Directorate of the KGB and the KGB was basically counterintelligence service okay so the central focus of the Okhrana and these successors in the Soviet Union was counterintelligence how did the Okhrana overcome the limitations of its size leverage what am I talking about here basically translate that into penetration through double agents provocation deception those of you who would have sat in my lectures and yours pass know that there's a a full cargo a whole idiot the fact that idiom is so critical but back in 1972 the KGB published a top-secret lexicon of counterintelligence terminology that's how serious they took this stuff they had a top secret history of the KGB I'm a little intimately familiar with this because the top secret history of the KGB I was able to buy back in around the time and things were coming apart in the Soviet Union 400 bucks and I did it out of pocket my pocket and I at that time I was in the office of the secretary of defense on detail comune di the last nine years my career was in August day of working issues of the silent counters counter inception and I need to deal with my superiors I said this is a top secret KGB doctor I bought as mine I will make it a gift to the US government if the US government will translate it so that we can get it out writ large as far as possible unclassified and I said there was one other stipulation I put up I picked the translator and you if you know anything about us come in contracting the lowest bid gets a job yeah you don't do that with this kind of information okay so it got happen and it's out there right there is a army website I can't remember the name of it I've seen something probably was in the back but it's offered then the second one that I got the same people who sold me the top secret history wanted to sell me the top secret lexicon and I started negotiate and they backed off and finally they came and said we will make it a gift so I made the same deal and we got that out now you may find if you go on Amazon or any other book search website you could find a lexicon not that one but a lexicon the same lexicon dough that was brought out by the trophy and the Brits who had the truck and the truck and is dead now he was a KGB defector the Brits got that translated and polished so you can you can either get one off of the I believe it's the Harmony website that the army runs or buy it off an Amazon site okay so they did this through double agent operations okay that's leverage because penetrating the enemy isn't just to find out what the enemy is doing a whole object is to control the enemy and you control them by getting them to do your video and then ultimately to affect their policy that's what kind of intelligence is about the way they do okay that tradition moves on come the revolution or up to the revolution before the Revolution a major security problem the Aaronic was primarily terrorists on the left and there were several varieties of hat not just the Bolsheviks Bolsheviks in the Mensheviks were part of the Russian social democratic Labor Party and the terminology of Bolshevik and mentioning itself is deceptive because the rule of meaning larger and mentioned a mentor meaning smaller the truth was just the opposite the Bolsheviks were not the majority element of the Social Democrats they were the minority in fact when they came to power in 1917 they represented maybe 5% of the total Russian population masses don't make revolutions small groups of construing and the Mensheviks where the majority of the Social Democrats among the elites were radicalized again masses don't make revolutions intellectuals though you had treacherous Czarist elites it's like reading about the French Revolution you want to get an account of what later happened in Russia repr instance one of the classics of the French Revolution by a scholar going back to 1932 which is when it was published I named a year years old it's titled the French Revolution you read through there you get a sense of the radicalization of the elites and what it led to by rereading it for about the third or fourth time was I'm reading it I'm thinking about a Roman contemporary situation but to bring that bring it back to this you had a similar repetition in Czarist Russia Lenin was not from the working class the minor nobility all of these people came from either landed nobility lesser nobility or deracinated nobility you find the same thing happening in other countries well I try models at home Maya has his family representative large landowners representative large window box so how do you get into that double agent ray you penetrate to your organization and the object of counterintelligence in this perspective is not to wrap a month in sort of the way the object is to identifying and controlled redirect their efforts against what they're up to so what you're getting basically it's you might argue well it didn't work in the end because the Soviets won well I would argue that a whole bunch of other mitigating factors such as World War one we're not for World War one and this is one of the greatest you know what would happen if we're it not for World War one and probably wouldn't we're not obscene we can discuss that who are some of these double agents oh very famous case as you know the spy as if was a a Nesser as they were known the socialist revolutionaries shorthand quarters and he was run by the Karma he was carrying out all kinds of nasty things under the watchful eye of your Chronicle this stuff can be very double-edged come back and bite them it's it's very very difficult especially in a revolutionary situation to run double agent operations it's like FBI penetrating crime organizations you're gonna have an effective penetration of a crime organization you're gonna have dirty hands it's not going to be clean on the same thing with that but it wasn't just awesome you had one of the senior members of the Bolshevik delegation into Kumar reversion of the pollen today in Russia man by the name of Roman malinovski who was your Cronus to use KGB parlance he was not he belonged to them in the Okhrana Lenin was worn many many times about that's that's one that still has to be Stalin Wow this one really gets gets into one of the troublesome issues of Soviet history you bring up Stalin today as having been an impressive gosh stupid penetration operation and you'll get a violent reaction not only in putin's russia because there was a lot of rehabilitation solemn doing none has been going on for a long time but even among the american left and an academia in general russian area studies so they did every studies from I was coming Stalin was not being there's the oh come on their number of the box one of the best I would recommend is buy a washing Jewish émigrés who spent years in the gulag when he tried to escape in the early nineteen fifties and among the worst of the Soviet gulag camps man by the name of Roman Brockman got to know room never met him face to face he dealt primarily by the phone and in mail simply because we could never get together he was living in New York at the time he was doing his best to get his book title Stalin's secret file but he wasn't the worst don't the first rather to Chronicle list there were several others before go back to the revelations of Alexander Olaf an early defector and he like nineteen thirties from in fact he was in Spain he was being president as they're called station chief in in snake during this a little more we make a strong case for Stalin having been on your chronic control Oh Oh seriously but this was characteristic now if you say that Stalin was anachronistic ouch you can understand why the Soviets would go ballistic over because it brings the credibility of the whole system into question some people claim that Lenin was an okra no penetration I don't quite agree with that what I would where he was but he was highly penetrated his staff they were reading his mail okay but he was an agent of the theory of Germany and I want to do a little sidebar - not just to explore this a little bit we think of rich leftist billionaires today financing left-wing movements you know who I'm talking about all over the place that's not unusual back at this time World War 1 process there was a man was a member of the Social Democratic Party of Imperial Germany what was financed the Bolshevik Party was very wealthy individual came to lanessa emergently now in the Ukraine and he was working with the German General Staff he and the German General Staff where were funding the Bolshevik underground movement to not Russia out of the war the one that's counterintelligence force and the way they do so I would argue it's no wonder but Lenin didn't want to anything about malinovski because he had a few things under his own bed but if you die deep enough by the way the business only this millionaire multi-millionaire the papers associated with that the documents associated with that from the German Foreign Ministry file some of the the war two era under the monarch were destroyed fortuitously narrates in World War two and you can't hit find it very difficult axis but there's plenty of other collateral information but supports the whole idea of Lenin being funded by the Germans to not wash off yeah the whole business of the steel train we're here you had a provocation coming across the rails and a rail car sponsored by the German General Staff who knew how to do political water which is the kind of stuff we're talking about here okay so foreign intelligence wasn't really so much a foreign intelligence operation as it was external counterintelligence and Sunday muted so for instance there was an organization called the Paris of China subordinated to the Ministry of Interior Czarist Russia in Saint Petersburg the department of police but had a major office to Western Europe in Paris and they had subordinate offices as well and they were there to collaborate and cooperate with Western intelligence services to get encounter yet information in contra operations of the Russian revolutionaries whether they were s eyes or Bolsheviks or Mensheviks so it was called the foreign agency but it was really a kind of intelligence service and by the way before the end of the Czarist autocracy in the collapse of you foreign agency was run in Paris by a former revolutionary whom the Okhrana had turned okay very very interesting either this is an interesting area to study oh this is one of my favorites I call it 7.62 millimeter pistol Braun my god counterintelligence he's a classic picture of a checkout loss by the way in recent years I think within the last seven years one of the characteristic features of the time was reintroduced in the admin state under Putin black leather long black leather coats with the belt a characteristic of cachaça hey guess who copied them any guesses yes yes there was a lot of interaction the love-hate relationship between Nazi Germany and if we have time to go for that but here's an example of revolutionary justice he was investigator this character here that's a 7.62 990 you can still find him second choice by the way I'm giving myself away I like to call these things to see what kind of Russian weaponry is and this is under stall and he was investigator he was magistrate execution of sentence they call these things the revolutionary tribunals all run by the top secret police this is counterintelligence with a vengeance we can go over the Russian at the bottom but what it's saying is the title of that is look my friend you can throw me there are some old films out there and our host professor or the cabbage show me some of them I access some of them as well the execution style of these people it's still around called the desk a mellow style it's a term from bullfighting the elegance by which you dispatchable well they had a style to execution as well and the basements of the Bianco and the portable prison and other standards in the country it was a shot I don't need to get so graphic a shot to the nape of the neck I using hollow-point ammunition while the reasons for that was to demonstrate what happens to the enemies of the state a side benefit of that was that if they gave the courts to the family there was no possibility of an open casket this is what and this is what characterized the rest of the Soviet experience all right let's look at this continued contrast you put in your crown and entrapment when it comes to intelligence issues well some people would argue that yeah there are same organizations I would argue the difference in degree makes for difference in kind okay you go back through the figures and it might bocha castilla history an AUV I took some time off from my job to research and write happily one of the things that's in it he was once I get into the data and the comparisons of statistics the Okhrana was a regular relatively cheap group when he came to executions their figures were so long they couldn't even match throughout the history of you don't even match the first year of Soviet rule in touch solution nowhere near it same thing with the car serration what the tradition began they the sending of people out to the camps exile although the Czar's it was a little bit different for instance you could read you could write one of the reasons Stalin in addition to the having been a product double agent was able to get out of there was a security was kind of lacks now geography played a part of us if your exile above your audit circle or out on the transit there's no way you're going to walk out of it and you were frequently exiled to a village and the local constabulary will keep an eye on so and you were building it then what a local peasant this was Stalin's experience and others as well I never happened in Saudi right now and so difference in degree makes me different sometime I like a quote much get it it's a pole who wrote a book titled a time for provocation wrote it and I believe 1962 and it wasn't translated in published in English until 2009 and a pleasant one editor kindly gave me a copy the title of that book captures a lot of what we're talking about because this style of counterintelligence operations involves obligation or to use this Russia turned public at sea we some of the Russian crust today especially releases coming from Putin what he's talking about different things reaction that we may take against him in response to some news operation how quickly he drops the term that is an American or British or French or German provocation okay he's projecting this is projection this is their style in the triumph of provocation if you go through this book I highly recommend it by the way that's about a little more you find it on Amazon you go through this book one of the first cases that they have and that what largest chapters in that book is a is an account of the trust operation our first major strategic deception operation they have multiple products domestically and internationally and do they take this seriously you bet on one of my trips watch it's like my last trip to Russia after the Soviet Union I was there when it was still something the darkness days I was saying but in the 90s I had a good fortune through some connections and people I was traveling with all former Intel types one of whom was a head of security for a major oil company that operated in Russia and operating in Russia he had to do with KGB companies or security of his loyalists in Western Siberia we got a tour of the KGB using ok and it was in the FSB bill not on the SVR bill at best evening the prime successful to the KGB and when we walk into the museum the very first thing we saw was a huge display of the trust their premier provocation strategic perception of they still teach that in the various FSB and SEO schools they taken seriously at econo and Tolan is focus all right we looked at when does the FSB celebrating its anniversary just tennis celebration this past November you'll get you can get the confusion between October and November October was under the old Julian calendar and November was when they switched over to the Gregorian calendar so the City November 1 so they celebrated November when does the SVR celebrate its anniversary it goes back to the creation of the first chief director what we knew it's the first cute Directorate in 1920 so it was 3 years before they created a standalone cannot even stand a department of the Chekhov for foreign intelligence so again intelligence drives the system they look at old organization charts of the KGB or the FSB that you will you will find most everything focused on counterintelligence and internal security okay SVR this horn intelligence but I can tell you about mom Alto were the Russian embassy is you will find a FSB resident in addition to an SVR business okay so on our intelligence no rules in so many ways we can discuss that okay the whole object was societal penetration atomization of society you atomized society so they can't link up people link up an opposition if they do link up an opposite review penetrator and you manipulate this is what they did with the trust and there are a whole host of other organizations that they sound like that for instance one that still exists today it's called Eurasians you gotta hear the name of alexander to be gu GI n anybody who follows the entourage putin will come up a crowd will come across a neighborhood he made is one of the Spurs in the last 20 years of so with Eurasia you know when the Eurasians were formed it was another alleged opposition group oniy emotional opposition in the 1920s the trust and there're Asians were only a couple of multiple operations like this that were targeted primarily domestically and then the part of the mansion was as with your Khurana can get those immigrants who had escaped after the Russian Revolution and we're running opposition organizations and operations back against the Soviet Union so it was again like external condiment calories obviously they did more than that going after others so the societal control so the true heir to the Lenin insurgencies jetski being the the founder of the checkoff a father and son a secret police the polls link to tell the story surge in ski obviously wasn't Russian he was polish as a renegade pole and he should be canonized as a saint because he killed so many Russians and this is when mass murder collects right out of the gate mass murder began and so Stalin it is the the logical successor call this all is poppycock about Lenin or vodka Trotsky and the Mensheviks and right-wing bush banks etcetera that's irrelevant Trotsky was one of the founders of the secret police of the troika nominee was Eva Conner of the Red Army and the GRU Soviet military intelligence he was the one of the founders that the trektop but he never internalized the fly seeds because he allowed himself to be penetrated there's a whole other story right so which in the final analysis the contest between Trotsky and Stalin wasn't over well he stylisation could not extend to the organs well I mean by the organs the security services and the foreign intelligence its kind of intelligence services so that would be the NBA at the time of the collapse a KGB the GRU and a whole host of others they the only thing that that the KGB was in addition to downsizing and the name change was the page split up the KGB into several different organizations the net effect of all of that was at all most of it migrated back to the FSB the only two things that didn't migrate back to the FSB were for intelligence and the body marks the bodyguards the old microchip Directorate from Stalin said our standalone security service reporting directly because lat proof it's another counterintelligence service the target arrest of the services these are Putin's Praetorian dark ok I brought most long tenure on drop off comes in in 1967 after the major period of so-called East all organization he runs everything in the KGB until 1982 he dies as general secretary of the communist party in 82 but he helped the solidify that tradition and he raised it to a more sophisticated level look at that before I get into these things what what he did was after the ferment following Stalin's death were a lot of personal scores were settled maria being among the first victims he's there was fear among before the alphabet repeat the senior gotcha but Maria she was was going to be the next Stalin he had all the books you had all the pop you were all the bodies with her as an example of where the party team thought they co-opted the military and they preempted Maria and with military muscle arrested him had a quick kangaroo trial and he was executed and we're not going to leave him around for a long time once all that does so then in comes on drop off in 1967 a year after Ashoka's can no three years at the first understand and he then puts the KGB on a much more professional footage to include the institutionalization of active measures and deception whereas before that it was carried out through a variety of mechanisms now he centralizes it within the first chief direction of the KGB and it's happening for a while was called a smooth maja service and one of the first Chiefs of the first treatment that was I get audits in my second bullet back but the CIF us ethos my grace this is when the Soviet Union steps out in the wake of Stalin's death and starts working with the national liberation movements in the third world and what you get is the export of the counterintelligence state you find wherever they get client states even if they're not communist States they build a KGB system okay that was in the Middle East we saw that Egypt you saw that in Libya you saw it in Yemen and on top of that what they did it was a socialist division of labor where they recruited a group they told pole I told the checks they told Romanians and so forth you will work with this group you will work with something such a group for instance the East Germans one of the tasks they got was to work with the enemies and in the southern tier of Arabia these Germans also worked with the in Mozambique something was any work from the chowsie and their foreign intelligence under stage VA worked in Libya and in Egypt and in each of these who had Soviet Cadbury's from the KGB and from the two are here working with these organizations so you get that style transplanted from the KGB in Moscow and the GRU in Moscow into these variants there were four countries and KGB organization goes with it and the rise of sluice box so to say because this to show me these phones which kind of yotz it's a very famous and wily or meaning in general in the KGB I knew several defectors who knew him and they said he was one of the most effective operators when he came to act in measures against the West and in fact a whole peaceful coexistence strategy was one of the things that I Beyonc was instrumental in designing along with the the International Department of the Central Committee and the interior international information department Central Committee Central Committee we should view as the general staff for these kinds of operations and then there are operating ordinance were the security services KGB and GRU and VD to some extent then you get the Soviets involved in international terrorism and this is where we we got into some very very interesting dust-ups in the US intelligence community because we had a good good signature on the Soviet presence but so many of these are these revolutionary groups in fact the IRA and the PIO groups throughout the Middle East like the PLO and me and various other groups in fact getting back to the business of socialist division of labor on an inspection trip I was a member of we were inspecting the under a system which belongs to the Defense Intelligence Agency and we hit all of the bloc countries starting mask out and worked our way down from Warsaw down through Bucharest well we got to Bucharest one of the interesting things that I experienced was the defense attache there having to be a friend of mine from I knew between he deployed to Bucharest warned me I said I want to get a feel for Ceausescu's well Russ he's okay there Ares you gotta stay away from and I was using that an embassy car written by one of his warrant officers and I said what's that he said the PLO officers Romania was given a subcontract with working with the PLO it was under beyond sir Arafat this the time frame for this by the way is 1975 we violated our defense out of shades in structure he did a quick dry block and sitting in front of this that's old storefront building we're a bunch of pillows I'm sitting with this is in a communist country and Makarov pistols on their hips think about that this is an economist country and then when general p'chepo the facts actually he was reported before he defected we got more information on them they the could attack they their version of the KGB was required to provide various entertainment space and verify this was the way this system operated and so what that led us to do came for this whole business that sunny it's an international terrorism and this was capped by the way with the assassination attempt on from October of 1981 okay we saw nothing intelligence to show us that give us the the insight that they were KGB signatures on this all over the place and yet we ran into an awful lot of opposition in the intelligence to follow where the no to connect the dots so I won't go into the information because there was a lot of opposition one of the reasons for that was you know what do you do if you could prove but the Soviets were involved in the assassination or the assassination attempt of the Pope we found out much later than indeed they were and this was in the documents that came out of the Washington State Archives which happened to be Politburo and Central Committee documentation this is one of the problems we have that documentation when people say Katie the archives no we didn't get into KGB archives nobody comes you don't get it did you know you want that nobody does you might get into these files of some of the Union Republic candy bees as the system was collapsing the late 80s and early 90s and get some of their files that leads now but the bulk of the information that gave us the insights where KGB injure you and MVD reports the Central Committee which became the files of the Russian Federation and there was a russian émigré who have been a dissident we an exchange the head of the chilean come in his party of who we vote of alone was exchanged for what he was of course after the Soviet Union collapsed Bukovsky who had been a prisoner to the gulag and insane asylums this is one of the things the KGB did that I give it was all the way back to Catherine's great if you disagreement assistant you how to be who were certifiably nuts okay so you if you weren't insane before you away for a treatment you were insane and you came up and is he creating psychotropic drugs okay he was able to get back to him in that brief window when things opened off on wheels and he took my hands and he got into the party archives which were the Russian state or I don't know the information now we have the inside now from cherry pop and Evan honey - and rope off then the I'm sorry jeopardy thought was a senior acacia be a picture to enroll on what was the head of the case talking about the assassination of John Walter and so he Paul came over by the way as I go on you know do a search on Paul Bangor and you will find that documentation but let me go on quickly gave me presents okay they had a good fun they they were a lot better than they were on the stock in the sense that they were a little more sophisticated okay Stalin you know when you talk about each of these upland wreckers now there was a certain reality to to that description they got better after that and they recognized that the system was going to come down they started making accommodations and other things if it's not agreeing offshore banks setting up companies letting out very capable individuals from the who live and the prisons and then two levels of incarceration presidents and rugelach Nance their people were in the block cruise effects letting people out like Boris matters of generosity okay it was one of the early oligarchs and they he died under mysterious circumstances so two years ago in exile he was supporter Putin and then they what it hit and they saw the system was going to sing they started preparing from the post Soviet system want to get a little idea on this back in the late nineties they study was done which I was a participant in a special state run by the Center for Strategic and International Studies on Russian organized crime and we saw how easy it was for a criminal system like the Soviet Union to transition into a a wild west capitalist oligarchic system we see Resul in the 90s and which was regularized now under Putin okay and it's become the KGB State so I say the KGB never never was really they would say the percent of the KGB for some Union collapse was here in this room back almost 30 years ago in 1992 other but cocky and as a as a offer but--will for the united states government he brought the plans for the penetration the technical penetration of art and when the scene in moscow I was really may he be hated for he was saying as a number of others did you are not going to reform the system unless you get rid of the KGB KGB is there I don't know where my peppers but he's he's no longer in any position never ever reform so what they did was they make plans for survival and hence you get you get this this business of only give an example I live in Great Falls there was a house very expensive house but I found out from the FBI crimes was bought by former party chief in the Central Committee who oversaw their pharmaceutical Empire he privatized that to himself okay and became a multi-millionaire with not a billion or overnight okay these guys bought property all over Western Europe England the United States Central Park here in Northern Virginia all over and that's the kind of system that resulted from the collapse of the Sony unit there is a story that's told in 1991 when the coup the KGB cooled failed in Moscow in September of 91 and the crowds commandeered a crane and they went into Zorinsky square they put a noose of steel cable around iron Felix's neck and they pull him off his pedestal okay I saw where they put he was remounted in a park next to the port in prison a KGB Colonel was looking through one of the top four windows down on the sink and he is quoted as saying we'll be back so Arnold Schwarzenegger was not the only one lilia why do people love it they birthday well if the king of coup making what was KGB you know some of the West's sophisticated elements of it they blew it and you had elements of the body out brought that knew the end was near and one of these happened being else and he was able to top it through and we got Russian Federation he never did anything to the KGB as I mentioned with the copy that was what made applause okay so you get the Yeltsin into random alright he starts bringing them back as I mentioned before you had the creation of stand-alone intelligence services that were carved out of the KGB with the exception of foreign intelligence and the bodyguards they were all brought back in and that being a nobody else okay the arch Democrat right they were you granted the KGB and went through several languages before they settle on ethnicity they a security service Russian Federation many had the rise of the Sun people these are the security countries they were pepper even before the collapse of the zone in the new mo okay they begin members of the room oh wait members of Congress or members of parliament okay okay along with the oligarchs and they were teamed up and yeah for instance there is a committee that oversaw still oversees the security services the overwhelming majority of the members are the KGB or MBD say KGB I'm talking can hurt me or the GRU okay so that would be like having the intelligence community sitting occupy the seats of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the house permanent Select Committee on Intelligence here in the United States these people came to the core and when you when you look at the people that were charging with penetrating the u.s. electoral system etc they come from this category this these sliced Russian ruling elite okay and the remnants of the occ the Central Committee then the kuv and the General Staff [Music] they morphed into Putin's Federation structure I don't have an organization chart with me but you could almost do it one by one comparison with the old information apartment the International information etc and the structures that are in the presidency of a threat as presidential office and even-handed the persistence that you own what a fairly efficient fighting assassination back in the early nineteen eighty from not talking about the adversity over assassinations they were irrelevant suddenly guitar this community who insisted somebody didn't do that number one that think it wasn't true they deceived us and we fell for the deception and they say yes I'm talking writ large I excused myself from now on because I was one of the guys with argument what the Soviets did they took that old when affairs operation the Russian said was mockery of July literally blood water fairs and they hid it in the best protected element of the KGB which was the illegal mr. recter the illegals Directorate are those people they they run the penetrations without diplomatic cover of long-term deep hidden penetrations of Western and other societies okay we saw an example of that with the mass arrests a whole bunch of them in 2010 here in the United States okay so they hid in the illegals right so it didn't come up on any intelligence report you saw no coms being reflected from the KGB or curing consulates you saw very little human reporting on it so the conclusion from the people who didn't want to believe that the sudden Silva's still business of course they got rid of it since it wasn't true still there as we saw with the recent assassination attempt on sweet Paul and his daughter and then they won in 2006 2010 okay so that's the way the refinements of that and then finally the moves into the middle-eastern dead where elsewhere begun on the Soviets and finding true under now said we were going to cover some others as well let me bring up China very quickly your credit card area the state is far older than the Zara's Soviet and the Russian tradition of prints mock's bather women sociologists and Karl this program another sociologist one of the fathers of the German Communist Party and one of the founders of the Frank broke rule remember that term these are the ones who penetrated the United States and marched through all the institutions they were wondering why we have democratic socialists today long tail on a march through the institution's the even the Bolsheviks watched someone were concerned that the system they were going to bring into existence was just a repetition of the old lijiang despotism which was a common term used in debates back in those days had no ethnic connotations whatsoever I'm sure somebody would try to do some real racist °o° with this no they had serious concern about this because the old Chinese structure was a highly bureaucratized control in the state and the influence they influenced the models animals and points that you look rescrew model the wrong way of war and you find that counterintelligence activities or caramel deception psychological warfare the Mongols were a light infantry primarily they defeated armies far superior both the numbers and an artillery over there but they were using leverage okay the same kind of leverage we talked about early in the presentation and the circle completes all right Russian assists in the rear position of this despotism in fact in 1928 they declared one of the Comintern Congress's they declared but the Asiatic despotism argument is finished and call a bit bull had to get out of Dodge it was in Moscow when that happened and Trotskyites woman get the hell out of here you're next and so he knew circuses in China he was saying oh I love classic counterintelligence guidance on the Chinese everybody has some thought has to quote so I look for good reason and I by the way it would recommend this particular translation I thought since I came out in 1993 and the translation and commentary was plain Roger Ames in that particular I had the heart of a conversion oh it was fine on page 171 here again the issue of double agents from this information from double agents we will know what false information to feed to our expendable spies to pass on to the enemy later paragraph we see in sense the key 12 intelligence since the double agent this operative must be treated at University and well because she's producing and this means that you get you you're running double agents not just to get intelligence it's more than espionage you're penetrating it to manipulate the room get you you're controlling this policy you're getting into myself that's how they do power intolerance all right the Latin tradition when Castro came to power what happened close collaboration with not only the KGB but that you are you as well so that you get for instance the Lord's station Seguin station ok run might be jointly by the old KGB cigarette crate the old 8th and the 16th and then the GRU as well but more important than that they recreated the KGB controlling mechanism of society the same way they did in the Soviet Union to include execution I love it when I see people running around with trade of Eric t-shirts this guy's a mass murderer I need mass murder romanticizing no monsters like check repeat in Grenada remember Grenada in 1983 dollars the Cuban operation and then in Nicaragua KGB sub cracked subcontract to the Cuban contract I'm almost done then Venezuela just for a quick snapshot of what's happening today okay why is Maduro lasting so long the Cubans with support from their lunch earnest are running that customized and the Russians recently I saw reports and I'm working clean unclassified I don't have any clearance between the very safe recent reporting you run across the Y Widener group or the five no dagupan you may have seen where the US military some months ago last year had a dust-up with them and we took out several hundred and combine air and artillery strikes my assessment is up there a general staff contract reports there we say mercs they played around with this stuff for plausible deniability alright very quickly this one say cook them he loved Lenin so you see the signature of that kind of control in the Muslim Brotherhood okay Muslim Brotherhood is focus the way it's structured and not let's focus on that kind of organization not necessarily with the Salafist they're focused more on the idea all of you this one is long term Soviet presidents they have a long long history of this they were Fighter II fighting Islamic they were doing counter insurgency wars against Islamist movements in Central Asia for decades literally very quick little sidebar example in the in 1979 when the Soviets invaded the organization I was working I was running a branch that covered that we had responsibilities of the KGB we saw the way the KGB and the Jew are you to some extent but mostly the KGB went in with skits and honest operations precursor operations to pull before the full invasion we interviewed debrief a couple of Afghan generals who had defected very fortunate to Catholic one of the things they one of them for us and we were small group and so we were able to concentrate on this kind of debriefing and he told us so when they came in when the KGB came in they had lists of all bus Maquis leaders a smudgy you or that they were the insurgent leaders from the basmachi uprising the Sun khawaja in the 20s in the nineteen thirties who found refuge in Afghanistan you talk about counterintelligence then morphs into Isis Iran very quick one on Iran by the way a defector came out to the Brits of 1982 position I be brief from here in the United States we didn't have a very good debriefing Mendoza a group dangle and very very hard to get good questions into it so I did a lot of work with the Brits over the years and it's working with the British military intelligence key where we had a joint program going I travel to the UK three or more times a year and so they arranged with mi6 for myself and one of my subordinates to spend a whole week with us back position and he gave us one verse on what happened in Iraq when this the Soviets made a strategic the city just like they did in Israel after they supported independence for Israel there's support partition in 1948 and then they did a 180 decided with the Arabs okay a strategic decision they did the same thing in Iran they threw the Communist Party over on the tudor party under the whoops and i literally under the most people's and they got executed by commanding Heights after committee came to power and they decided the side with the imams and it's been that way ever since okay a strategic ridge up all right this is the last one I'm almost ready let me read it for those in the interview I can't see it this is from Charles paradise it's a very very telling a confident the Bolshevik takes from the absolute for utopia and by listening to our distance now our distant now in the West I gave birth but it has reappeared within Islamic world the recreation of a universal Caliphate which seeks to rule almost and lands about the Year 800 has become a widespread demand of radical Islamist groups Islamic groups demand is abstract and neutral that's communism it's all in pursuit of such as a cult of death is as pitiless of sound has gained widespread ascendancy over right and also the war against this style of tyranny demands the same energies and meets the same question presentation as the woman's smile hey Miss Piggy be saying it was the metal wing all right but think of prosecutorial misconduct okay you know what I Drive and then finally one of my favorites if you try to read it in the cyrillic it's it's not a translation I just took the Cyrillic and we did never give a sucker an ad work that's an old comment on WC Fields from the films of 1937 all right I've spoken enough I'm sorry for running

Channel: The Institute of World Politics

Views: 1,959

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: #IWP, iwp

Id: eFY3mw5JwPw

Length: 77min 9sec (4629 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 05 2019