The Book Club: The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand with Andy Puzder | The Book Club

foreign [Music] welcome back to the book club I'm Michael Knowles and this month we are taking on one of the most controversial books of the 20th century a book that is loved and despised by all sorts of people by the left by the right and to do that we will be here with my friend Andy puzder a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation a senior fellow at Pepperdine School of Public Policy a wonderful advisory member of the board of prageru perhaps you've heard of it and most fun of all the former CEO of Carl's Jr and Hardee's Andy thank you for being here my pleasure you picked up this book around the time that I first picked up this book around the time that pretty much everybody first picks up this book as a young man as a teenager and you'll love it yeah I read the book and I have found my people you know it was it was like thank God for this book I wonder where was where was this all my life uh yeah I picked it up as a first year of college which distracted me from my studies because I I couldn't put the book down it's such a great book so before we get into its meaning and its controversy and why it's still selling a zillion copies today what's it about it came out in 1943 is by uh in Rand uh who it was her first major literary success this was a book that really kind of made her name and it it set forth her her belief in the creative power of individualism versus the destructive power of collectivism and this is something that that she understood pretty well she she was born in 1905 in Russia uh she was 12 years old when the Bolshevik Revolution happened her family was pretty well to do they lived in Saint Petersburg they had to leave town they went down and spent a couple years in the Crimea uh where the which the white Army controlled at the time that was the tsar's army they ended up going back up to Saint Petersburg which became petrograd uh and and really lived under very difficult circumstances they had no money and there was no food it was a very bad time to be in the now Union of the Soviet Socialist republics uh she got into Leonard grad State University graduated with a degree in history in 1924 and the 1926 came to the United States so for the first couple of for the first I'd say her teen years and the beginning of her adult life she lived under the the horrendous totalitarian collectivist Communist Regime of Vladimir Lenin uh in in the Soviet Union so when she talks about collectivism it's not like people who talk about socialism today and then you ask them what it means and they have no idea this woman understood good collectivism because she she lived in in under it to understand the novel I think the best way to approach it would be maybe to talk about the five major characters in the novel because that kind of ties it together the protagonist the major the the number one character in the book is a guy named Howard Roark who's a brilliant young architect who refuses to compromise with the architectural establishment at the time which opposed Innovation he embodies what Rand considered man as man should be somebody who was very much a supporter of creativity and individualism and very much an adamant opponent of uh collectivism and Conformity uh and and not just in the political sense it's not not just like you know capitalism versus socialism or democracy versus communism but but as but as part of his soul he's an individualist A Creative individualists as part of who he is and through the through the the entire book he fights what he calls the second-handers which are people that put Conformity above Independence which takes us to the second character that's kind of primary to the book an individual named Peter Keating who embodied what uh what Rand uh thought man should not be he was he he and Roark met each other in architecture school Rory got out and was independent and not very successful uh Peter King got out and copied imitated architectural styles from the past so he would he he used the architectural styles of the Greeks and the Romeo centuries-old architectural styles that were accepted as the best there ever could be nobody thought she could prove on them and he became very successful doing that but the interesting thing is that whenever he had a problem with the with a project a difficulty trying to get some project through he had to go to Rourke and get advice as to how he would do that the third character I would I would say is important is it is Gail winand he was a a a publishing a medium Mogul and he was the man who should have been but wasn't he uh he he started out as an individualist but then he surrenders he like surrenders to uh popular culture he becomes a tabloid publisher and makes a fortune being a tabloid publisher but deserted his individuality deserted his what he really was meant to be now he and Rory become very close friends um you know very good buddies and um but when Roark is attacked and he Winan tries to bring public opinion to into favor Rourke he fails public opinion is too adamantly against Rorke and then he denounces work he denounces his friend just like he gave up on on his individuality personally uh the next character is really fascinating his name's Ellsworth Tui and uh he's the villain yeah he's the antagonist he's he is a socialist and an architect critic and he actually writes for Gail Winan's paper his his tabloid in New York is the banner and he's the man that never could be and knew it and so he tries to drag others down he tries to take people he tries to take people that that would Excel that and and and drag him down to the level of the of the Common Man common woman he he um he tries to characterize talent and ability as meaningless unless they're used to meet the needs of the masses to satisfy popular culture and uh and if you're if you're trying to achieve your own goals or your own Ambitions then then you're not you know you're not a good guy and he uses every every tool at his disposal to try and bring to destroy Howard work who sees as he sees as a real challenge to it he's trying to Advocate this Collective is socialist society and he tries to use his columns in the banner to convince the public as to what they should be what what their goals should be like what they should respect so he tries to guide public opinion but doesn't want any of the um any of the individuals who might be moving Society forward to be able to do so the last character that's important is Dominique Franken who's uh she's like the perfect woman for Howard Rorick now she ends up being his lover but but strangely enough she also ends up married to Peter Keating for a while and Gail's weinen for a while but then she goes back and ends up she's married but she she despises Society she despises popular culture she despises mediocrity but she thinks individualism has lost she thinks collectivism is one collectivism is is conquered the country and she doesn't like to see Howard work this individual is hurt when Society rejects him and she doesn't think Society deserves his buildings so she often works with Tui to try and hold Roark back and then she'll alternate and she'll try and help rork because she actually loves Howard work now Rourke ends up uh designing a public housing project this is a 1930s so during the Depression and public housing was very very expensive hard to come up with something where people could live inexpensively Roark designed something kind of in his spare time he works on this project Peter Keating gets a government contract to build public housing but he can't figure out how to do it and come in economically so he goes to Roar Roark says I've got these plans I can do this for you but the deal is you can be under your name but you have to sign an agreement that you will not change my design you want to change one jot or tittle you can't change a thing in the design uh he then goes off on a cruise with Gail Winan because Roark needed a break he's been working intensely for for decades uh and and uh Peter Keating of course doesn't keep his word he he changes the building uh Roar comes back and sees it and considers it an Abomination and dynamites it destroys the building dynamites it and gets accused of a crime and the he goes to court they're they're they want to put him in jail he'd rather see the thing destroyed uh and and spend the time in jail than let it exist as it existed and uh he defends himself in court uh doesn't call any Witnesses but gives this this really compelling tremendous speech to the jury uh that where he defends the importance of individualism against the corrupt collectivist societies that that have grown up around the world uh and the jury equips him now I gotta I have to say I I wish this book I wish that high school students for the past 20 30 years had just read the jury speech because I think we would not be facing many of the problems we are with younger people if they had read it if we implemented it today and people had to read it you know as mandatory reading today going forward I think we'd have a much brighter future it really was an incredible speech it kind of summarizes the ideals in the book that was an excellent and pithy summary for a book that is a bazillion pages long in size three font basically well uh well thank you I hope I didn't miss anything now I've read the book one and a half times read it obviously for for this prageru episode but I picked it up and I only read half of it in high school because I don't know I was a little lazy or I couldn't read as fast or something like that I found that I liked it more when I was 17 than I do today and I know this is true of a lot of people they young people love this book and then some people they continue to love the book or they totally turn away from it and I find there are these moments as you say these some of these speeches where I think oh wow she's she really gets that yeah she really gets that work matters and work isn't just a way to make some money or to please some people work is important in itself wow she gets that so much of the culture doesn't get it but Ein Rand has a problem and the problem that has attracted a lot of controversy is she is a militant atheist so can religious people like Ein Rand yeah I uh I'm religious and I like aim right and matter of fact I gave there's a group called The Atlas Society I gave the first speech at their first dinner that they had this must have been about 10 years ago and uh and they asked me to speak on how could a religious person like in Rand and you don't have to like everything about I mean you don't have to agree with her on everything and I think she was more agnostic than than devotedly atheist uh and you and that comes out in the book where where there there are some references to to a greater power yeah which I think she she actually did believe in but you know if you really don't have to believe everything yeah Alice in Wonderland was a political book right at the time it came you have to leave everything in Alice in Wonderland to agree with the political point of the book and I think that what what you get in this book which I think what I think is important for for particularly young people to get from the book is that the whole world can think you're wrong and you still might be right yeah and that's important to understand it's an important message uh because and it was it's important I mean I think I've told you I had my kids read this before I let him get a driver's license they had to read Fountainhead and come back and you know talk to me about it uh but the reason I did that was I wanted them to ask to be able to ask the most important question in human history and that question is why when people come to you and say your friends come and say we should let's go we should all go out and do drugs or you know we should all vote for Obama or we should all vote for Trump you know whatever what everybody's saying I want my kids to say why because I don't want them to think they should do something because everybody else is doing it that's sort of the collectivist model I want them to stand up and say well well why should at least at least they'll send they're still going to make mistakes but I want them to think about whether or not they're making them stand that that is a message you get from this book that uh really is apart from and whether it's you know whether she was a believer in in God or an atheist or an agnostic I think that's a message that works no matter what your religious beliefs are you should always want your your kids and you should always yourself yeah ask why and not get caught up in whatever the popular culture is telling you is right just because popular culture is telling you it's right and this is one of the most important themes of the book is Integrity will you stick by your principles and you've got characters of varying shades of this Peter Keating has no principles at all right Ellsworth Tui the Socialist critic he does seem to have principles his principle seems to be and we find this out later on in the book destruction he wants to destroy you want and he wants power so for all of his talk of altruism and for all of his talk of giving away and and abnegating the self what he admits is he wants power over others as socialists often do then you've got the character of Gail weinand the media Mogul who starts out with Integrity but he compromises and ultimately just gives the people what they want through his tabloid and it raises this really important observation which is Gail winand has everything he's got money seems like he's got a lot of power and a lot of influence but if he can't State his own opinion about architecture about beauty about Society what's all the money good for as the book goes on when he deserts Howard Aurora it's really like when he deserted his his individuality his principles his Integrity early in the book he now deserts his Integrity again and it destroys it yeah I mean he never he never recovers for the rest of the book and I I'd imagine and if he were a real-life character would never have recovered the rest of his life I mean this really destroys him and he says in the book he says I I other people I can excuse but I wasn't meant to be a second-hander and I was and so he can't excuse himself when he's when he steps back from that so that's I think that's your your that that's a very important point with respect to the book now you know Andy this is a family show we try to keep things relatively clean and yet we can't move past that's a novel there's a romance here there's a lot of sex talk in the book and Ein rand's view on sex is probably fairly scandalous to a lot of people the first moment when Howard Rourke and Dominique who he ends up with but she's got some marriages in the middle and yeah yeah the first encounter that they have Dominique herself describes as a rape yes but she likes it she loves him this is a theme that recurs in in some of Iran's writings it's a little weird what do we make of that I wish it weren't in the book many of you you know if I uh if I had been editing her I would have edited that that scene out good luck editing Iran yeah I know I uh I don't think it was necessary to the book and uh yeah like I said you don't have to love everything about a book to appreciate the really great message in the book so that that's a part that uh but you know I I'm not going to defend that I don't that's not something that uh that I think should have been in it I do Wonder though she inrand described her philosophy as a philosophy around the virtue of selfishness and has another book which if you don't want to read 700 Pages you can read a much shorter non-fiction book called The Virtue of selfishness by by Rand and you can tell in all of her writings she is reacting against an intimate experience of Soviet communism yes which is supposed to be about giving yourself up for everybody else in the world and she says no that that's terrible and so she goes in completely the other direction or at least seemingly in the other direction toward an exaltation of selfishness even in the sexual encounters it's always these characters saying well I'm not doing this for you I'm doing this for me the way that I love you is by loving me and pursuing my interests and and this is hard for people to square with Christianity or with traditional morals which say no we should be charitable we should love other people and it's it's a it's an unsettled question I think in her book how how do you resolve it well I I think what uh what she's trying to get at and you it's hard you know it's hard because she does use the language you've talked about about the virtues of selfishness and we've even gotten Milton Friedman at one time saying that uh you know that he didn't say greed is good that's what uh yeah that's what Michael Douglas's character said in Wall Street right uh Gordon Gekko uh but I think their point is if if you look at a character like Ellsworth Tui as much as he espouses that he's doing good for other people nothing that he does ever results in any good uh but if you look at Howard work as I'm I'm doing this for myself I'm I'm designing these buildings because this is what this is what moves me but people benefit from that uh think about Henry Ford Henry Ford was an individualist came up with a way to make cars for the Common Man and the common woman now he didn't do that with the objective that he was going to go out and you know and and do something altruistic stick for people but you know what an incredible benefit Deborah and it's the same with Steve Jobs Steve Jobs you know Ford didn't come up with those cars for kings and queens he came up with those cars for the Common Man of the common woman Steve Jobs uh came up with the smart devices not for government Elites but he came up with them for you and for me or or a guy like uh you know Elon Musk or or Jeff Bezos who comes up with this incredible distribution system they didn't you know he was in there working for himself trying to you know to create wealth and improve his life and make a profit because what a tremendous benefit for all the rest of society so it is that I guess that's the virtue of selfishness if it's if it's used in that manner you really it really is more like altruism than it is like selfishness because you're really helping a tremendous number of people I think uh she probably rolled over in her grave when I said it was like altruism because that's something that that uh that Rand was not particularly in favor of but I think it look the only the way you improve your life in a capitalist society which and she was a capitalist is by meeting the needs of other people yeah and that's different than a socialist society like she was used to where the way you improve your life is by satisfying the needs of those in power uh and if you satisfy the needs of those in power you share in the very little wealth that's created like uh you know in Cuba Castro had like 20 houses in a yacht the whole the whole country lives in poverty or or Kim Jong-un in North Korea it doesn't look like he's missed a meal the country's starving right so you you really have these these communist leaders these socialist leaders that produce societies where everybody suffers on the other hand you go to a capitalist country and the way that people succeed is by meeting other people's needs you by by producing the the goods or the services that people wanted a price they can afford that's how you profit that's how you improve your life and these incredible individualists these incredible creative minds uh benefit Society tremendously you know I said you know Jeff Bezos didn't become the the richest man in the world because he stole from us he became the richest man in the world because he provided us with tremendous benefits so I think in that sense um I I don't think she's she was right to use the word selfishness but I do see I do see out what she means with selfishness can be a virtue because it benefits others and and to your point though she might roll in her grave on this what it seems she is grasping at is not an indictment of Charity but an indictment of dishonesty and an indictment of deception these people who say oh I'm the greatest most charitable man to all the world they don't give a wit about anyone else right they they claim they're living for other people but they're really not doing very much now there are there are sincerely there are people who do sincerely live for other people they're saying you know Mother Teresa I mean there are there are examples uh in the world they're rare but these people that claim to be doing that as a means to gain power to influence those in power or to um or as with Ellsworth Tui to destroy right and boy you sure you know you it's you want to talk about the relevance of a book today yeah you know you look around it's a little hard to deny that somebody's out there trying to destroy the greatness of this country the greatness of the uh the the influence individualism and the right to happiness right has had on this country you know we don't our Declaration of Independence doesn't talk about uh the obligation to to meet the needs of other people it talks about your individual right to happiness right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness those are individual rights those aren't collectivist rights and uh and it's created the greatest economy in the history of the world it's lifted billions of people out of poverty so it it's uh you have to be careful with your words but I get what you meant and she she gives it away a little bit at the end when Rourke after having a difficult career because he won't compromise on his ideals and his principles he says to this mediocrity Peter Keating he says okay I'll design your building for you and you don't need to give me one red scent you don't need to pay me so on on the one hand you have Ein Rand the arch capitalist everything's got a price she loves she loves price in Atlas Shrugged the money speech is probably the most famous part of that whole book yeah she had a dollar sign of flowers at her funeral yeah but then at the climax or one of the climaxes of Fountainhead the protagonist says I don't need the money I need my work to be built yes yeah he's like I said he's man as man should be the the the the man in rand's mind totally devoted to creativity and individualism and the power the power of creativity and uh and so he that I I'm not surprised by that but your point is well taken I mean she definitely was a capitalist and uh and had a high regard for money as you know people say money's the root of all evil well I think Grand would say that man is the root of all money good money is just a means for of exchange when you if you're looking for the evil don't look for the means of exchange look at the people behind it and and you know when people say this money is the root of all evil they're forgetting the first part of the sentence which is the Love of Money yes and even roork he he's not in it for them and he likes money we all like money it's good good to be paid for your work but he's in it for something deeper and he will he will Design I don't know convenience stores gas stations he'll design anything uh if he's given the challenge to do it because that that's that's the creative in him that's the that's the individual in him that just wants to meet that creative need and that's by the way what Dominique doesn't understand yeah she thinks he she thinks he has to satisfy Society he has to get the the accolades you get from doing this and he just doesn't care and much of the book is her trying to come to to grips with the fact that he just doesn't care you know this is this is what he wants to do and Society really can't hurt him unless they take away his ability to uh to build those buildings and even if they do even when they take it away it just goes and works in a quarry yeah you know he goes and works in Iraq and he he as long as he's doing the work and enjoying it and uh you know he he was fine with it right but he resented it he just didn't have the architecture work that he loved you know Ein Rand said she wrote Atlas Shrugged which comes after fat head because she felt people didn't grasp her meaning in Fountainhead and the books are very similar and you see similarities in the characters but they do have different endings you know the ending of Atlas is a little more catastrophic traffic than the ending of Fountainhead which basically wraps up in a happy enough way with with the acquittal of uh Howard Rourke for his trial because he makes this speech he builds this tallest skyscraper in the world where Dale wine and actually hires him uh to go and build this great but he won't talk to him yeah I want to talk to you I don't want to see you I have anything to do with you but I want you to build the most incredible skyscraper that the city's ever seen the problem is you know that uh the Tui kind of took the uh Howard work victory in stride he had to look for a new job because uh wine ends up shutting the banner down and disgust I think with himself uh but Dewey's went to another newspaper and the first thing he asked was information on the person that owned it because he wanted to try and take that over so Ronald Reagan was like this I mean Ronald Reagan you know at the at the end of the Reagan Administration I mean we we all thought it was over I mean we had proven socialism just doesn't work the Berlin wall and the brink of collapse and we didn't defeat we didn't defeat the Soviet Union militarily we defeated him economically our economic system destroyed them I mean their economic system just didn't work if you if people can't improve their lives through what they're doing they're not going to work very hard to try and improve their lives in in you know in our system you can do that and and we produce much greater wealth but the problem is uh that after uh after Reagan left office and we had proven um you know once and for all that socialism was a system that just didn't work couldn't work as well as capitalism all of the western democracies seems to have decided that what they needed to do was adopt some of the policies from the economic system we just defeated which you know like that was the smart thing to do and here we are again uh having to uh to prove that uh that our system is far superior to the Socialist system and young people aren't aren't yeah they're they're sort of not getting it and I speak to I speak to a lot of uh of Youth groups and uh when you ask people will say you know well I'm a socialist and I hear what you're saying but I'm I'm still a social and then I'll just say so what is what is this what is a socialist what are when you say you're a socialist what exactly do you mean they have no idea it means I'm a good person I had one where this young lady said she was a socialist I said well that's great it's a small group it's like 30 people I said maybe you can Define for the rest of us what socialism is and she gave some answer that made absolutely no sense it's like good people and nice people everybody treats I said well would you would you agree with this socialism is a system where the people decide what direction the economy goes in it's the people who decide uh what happens in the economy and that capitalism is a system where there's a group of Elites who make the decisions as to what happens in the economy and she said yeah that's a great definition I said well it's just the opposite I said in fact capitalism you vote with every dollar you spend as to what you know whether it's an iPhone or an Android or if you're old enough to remember a Blackberry you know these these products what succeeds and fails depends upon your vote with every dollar you spend I said in a socialist economy you have to plea you have to please the people who control the economy which are the elites so it's really just the opposite which I don't know if I got through to her she seemed kind of stunned but this is the question then for all these younger people who have Fallen away from Good Old traditional American values and you look around the state of the country in the world seems we may have squandered some of that victory in the Cold War yeah which ending is more likely the the Atlas Shrugged ending where you see the society effectively collapse or the The Fountainhead ending where things kind of work out and the people even decide to acquit Howard work they actually are sort of one over to rorke's side Ein Rand is criticized for her characters being a little too stiff you know they don't seem realistic they're all and it's just the style of writing they're meant to represent ideas but is that happy ending likely will will the people actually come around let me say two things one is uh Dickens characters are like that too there was no real little Nell I mean there's you know but there are even Scrooge yeah exactly I mean these are this is the way you get your messages across in these novels and they're the characters are very distinct I mean you really that's why I described the book by going through the characters I don't know I if you ask me this uh 10 years ago I probably would have given you let me see two thousand maybe if you asked it uh what about 15 years ago I probably would have given you a different answer than I'd give today uh Reagan uh not to over quote Reagan but Reagan President Reagan said that uh freedom is always but one generation away from Extinction and when you lose it it it's not going to come back anytime soon uh I've been real concerned about that over the past 10 years it's why I've done a lot of speaking to at colleges and and really to any youth groups that I can because I'm afraid that our education system is deteriorated to the point where young people really aren't getting uh good exposure to what made this country great and what's in their best interest or what economic system and we've like I said if Barack Obama said in 2015 the capitalism nobody disputes he says let me take it back he said we do not dispute that capitalism uh has is the greatest economic system in history it's created more wealth than any other system and it has lifted billions of people out of poverty well sounds like a pretty good system I mean how many kids do you think are hearing that in high schools today in in Colorado they just uh the teachers union just came out with a I know some very strange statement about they weren't going to teach capitalism anymore because it was too oppressive and I you know kids in Colorado are going to hear about how billions of people have been lifted out of poverty so I I think that I'm concerned uh with this generation I'm concerned that this may be we may be dealing with a generation that will that will lose the freedom that we've fought so hard to preserve so I think everybody who understands what we have and understands the value and the significance of capitalism in particular as an obligation to go out there and and start speaking up because kids aren't going to get this in school that's why I see so many people homeschooling used to be I'd speak to a group and afterwards I always ask them to say where what college or where they're from and it used to be maybe I don't know five percent were uh were homeschooled now I'm getting like 40 50 I mean a lot of a lot of kids are homeschooled because I think parents don't feel that the kids are getting the education they should get into public schools right right of course so I suppose it seems like it once a collapse of an order but also maybe a glimmer of hope and I suppose that's that's what Ann on Rand is reaching for too which is at the end of these novels both of them uh Atlas and Fountainhead she says yeah things are not looking great and there are all sorts of reasons to be quite pessimistic about the way that Society is run but as long as there's you as long as there's that one Howard Rourke as long as there's that one Dominique francone if as long as there's this one there's a chance that this ideal of the human Spirit uh will remain and so while her novels are all about ideals this one in particular is so uncompromising on these ideals think like well the ideals will endure even if the Flesh and Blood Society crumbles well you think of Elon Musk I mean yet sometimes one individual can stand up to this collectivist mentality and uh and make a difference and I think I think he is making I don't agree with everything that Elon Musk believes but I think he's trying to stand up and make a difference I think he's trying to defend these values I think he you know it's funny how immigrants appreciate this much more than people that have grown up in the United States like random like musk and so I I you know you really you really see um the in the impact that one person speaking of one person acting one person sticking to their ideals and their values can make a difference even against uh you know a massive public reaction against them much as work experience right I think I told you I had one son who who read speech to the German you know he's hitting his driver's license so and he comes down with his finger in a book like this big where the speech and he my wife and I are watching TV and uh he's now 30 31. I'd so be 15 years ago he came down and he's got his fingers away he goes he's got dead where did this come from like why haven't I ever heard they don't teach this in school why haven't I ever heard this before like why don't people know about this and I remember looking at my wife and saying you know this one will be okay yeah we and you know what's so important about that observation too is and it's one thing I really like about Ein Rand and about Fountainhead in particular is it's it's a book about architecture it's a book about building it's a book about the relation between ideas and the real world that we're all walking around in these are not ideas that just float around in outer space and right fade away but the ideas that we hold and that we pursue are going to be built up even physically all around us which is by the way the very point of this show is to recognize that these ideas will have a real instantiation in the world so we've got to make sure that we get them right they're like the skyscrapers in New York which was her point when you she says when you stand at the bottom one of those when you stand at one of the bottom one of those skyscrapers people think this is intimidating roric and Dominique Franken think man built this you know it's a it's a different perspective right and it's one that uh I wish uh more young people were exposed to today and I really appreciate you doing that on this show because young people do what do pay attention to what happens at prageru and uh we need to find ways to reach these people and we'll see what kind of buildings go up as a result Andy thank you for being on Michael my pleasure thank you thank you for tuning in to the book club as always I'm Michael Knowles see you next month thank you so much for watching this episode of the book club on prageru prageru is a 501c3 non-profit organization so we rely on donations from viewers like you to keep this content on the air please consider making a tax deductible contribution today to help keep this content coming thank you very much

Channel: PragerU

Views: 555,924

Keywords: Michael Knowles, Andy Puzder, Ayn Rand, CEO, Carl jrs., Hardee's, Top books, great books to read, Daily Wire, business man, Top selling book, PragerU, The Book Club, Book Club, Book recommendations, The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand

Id: qpHU66c462E

Length: 35min 45sec (2145 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 16 2023