The Atheist Experience 27.29 with Secular Rarity and Dave Warnock

Deuteronomy 25 verses 11 and 12. if two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man her hand must be cut off Without Pity holy crap how are we how is this book talking about genitalia again this is so creepy also why that punishment that's really really weird don't you think like it that's that's a little intense of a punishment and how often exactly was this happening back in that time that they felt like they needed to waste valuable space writing this down I I don't know but if anybody out there has any answers to these questions or just think that the Bible is a good book at all you should call us because the show's starting right now thank you whoa that is right folks we are back for another episode of The Atheist Experience today is July 23 2023 and I am your host secular Rarity and joining me today is the legend himself Dave Warnock what is up man I just want to know how that's the go-to move for the wife when she just says I'm going to grab this guy by the balls right and we're that's who where is that a go-to move for the women I don't understand that whole concept there it's it's very strange honestly and you know what what what really gets me is how apparently this book is still the foundation of all that is good and right in the world yes I I just don't understand it um I yeah I I don't know man but maybe somebody else uh out there today can give us a call and all of them all of our moral all of our morality is based upon this book according to the Christian that's right you know whatever what do we know what do we know I haven't I haven't heard of a lot of people getting their their hands cut off Without Pity have you have you Dave have you seen any yeah usually it's with pity when you do that you cut them off and then you feel bad about it at least a little yeah a little pity I'll go along with that super super creepy stuff but again baby if if you have a good explanation for for why that verse is in the Bible or maybe like how this book is supposed to to make us more moral well call us because we have open lines and we've already got a couple of really good calls but remember we have more space and we want to talk to you if you are a believer of any stripe so 512-991-9242 or you can always hit us up on the web at tiny.cc slash call a x p and before we go any further let me remind you that The Atheist Experience is a product of the atheist community of Austin a 501c3 non-profit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism critical thinking secular humanism and the separation of religion and government I can honestly say that one sentence alone is better than like 95 of the Bible right I mean it's amazing how you could just write so much garbage all in one spot but again maybe somebody else maybe somebody out there will correct this day yeah we want to hear from you if you can defend the Bible and you can you can justify verses like that I doubt that you have that one on your refrigerator I always used to call there are certain verses in the Bible that I call them refrigerator versus I doubt that's one of them show us how that's good call us and let us know why the Bible makes more sense to you than it does to us yeah yeah and while we are waiting for those calls to come in and our lines to fill up let's go to the share your experience from last week so you guys know out there every week we are giving you a prompt we are asking you a question and we want your answers in the comments below the video and then right at the beginning of the show next week we answer we we uh show up those answers and we talk about what our wonderful viewers have said so last week we asked you to write a slogan for God so this is awesome and here are the top three answers coming number three we've got Mr yellow with God's slogan hate what you create I like that it's it's pretty good it's straight to the point um and it feels really true uh again just filming through this book and yeah that that definitely comes out to me uh number two we've got Mitchell Mitch God slogan let me come inside you you know they talk about that a lot you know being being like washed over with the Holy Spirit you know just filling you up and it's it's yeah it there's some there's definitely exactly the Lord Jesus that's right that's right and finally number one from Brian tamblin God's slogan maybe he's born with it maybe it's make-believe I like that I like that it is true that is true um and so we as always we have another question for you so remember folks underneath the video not in the live chat but in the comment section give us your favorite answer to this and you might see your answer on screen next week but uh I'm gonna throw it to you first Dave so we're asking what Bible verse sounds dirty what do you think um yeah the one we just you know I I'm glad I've been a non-student of the Bible now for about a dozen years so it's starting to fade away from me and I'm really glad about that because ten years ago I could I could have pulled something out pretty quickly but I think the one that you just read to open the show is is pretty good I mean you know when women are going around grabbing men's balls to try to stop a fight that's pretty dirty it's dirty that's playing dirty let's just call it that it's literally below the belt below the belt literally man got him guys got him I think we're done here we that was with that one right there on I'm really proud of that one I'm sure nobody else is laughing watching it but whatever that's fine so remember folks get your answers in the comment section below give us what you think is your favorite one um and if you're gonna mention if you're gonna mention the one about the emissions like donkeys we know we know we we've heard it all before yeah I don't want to go to that one because yeah we're kind of done with that one it's two on the nose right yeah it's too easy I feel like everything I I just I'm such a bad mind I feel like everything now we're saying is framed in this context it all sounds gross to me but anyway get your comments in the comment section below this video and uh yeah check us out next week right at the beginning of the show to see if one of your answers is chosen so I think I think we have had enough fun already Dave and it's time to time to grab a call what do you think go for it let's go talk to Peter he him in Massachusetts wants to talk a little bit about the Bible uh hey Peter you're chatting with Sr and Dave Dave Warnock what's up hi there it's my first time calling this is really great thank you glad to have you okay all right uh to Jump Right In a couple just references the Bible in Matthew 25 there's the discussion of the separating the sheep from the goats now that's about separating the true Christians from those with the false beliefs yep all right number two there's you shall have no Gods before me and not taking the name O Lord in in vain all that's about blasphemy and uh there's the line about the philosophy against the holy spirit is the one unforgivable sin now we also have that God is an ineffable so you cannot understand him perfectly you cannot have perfect knowledge of him so we put it all together what do we have if your image of God is less than perfectly correct and if you're going to take that Viewpoint and say I am absolutely absolutely correct at every little point what you're doing is you're telling God who he has to be well if you're not right that's a false god sure and yeah yeah that level of arrogance that's the blasphemy that that's where you'd really need to be humble if you're going to be able to say you know I have some ideas and I'm going to believe and I can do it with humbleness then you're going to be able to actually get somewhere and have your faith and that's fine it's kind of like with science you don't say science is truth there's nothing but truth and I have it all you say okay I have some ideas I have some theories and you know what I could be proofing wrong sure this is an argument against motivated reasoning okay I kind of let me let me jump in for a second here Peter because I I think Dave and I would probably uh agree pretty heartily with you um we were never more arrogant in our lives than when we thought absolutely everything in this universe was designed for us personally right it is one of the absolute Heights of arrogance to believe that all of the galaxies in the universe right that that that all of the billions of ants and beetles that exist in this world that somehow all of that was made specifically with the thought of like you and me chatting it up here one day Peter like it's it's nonsensical and not only that it I think the danger comes in when you you do Elevate yourself and your own knowledge and experience to such a degree right one of the things that's so amazing about the scientific method and and how we do science in general right it's this it's the fact that we are getting checked by other people it's that humbling experience of somebody else coming in and going man I actually I actually followed the recipe perfectly and this is not a good cake like this cake sucks man you know you you used a bunch of salt instead of a bunch of sugar so it's terrible uh that's one of the most valuable things in life in my opinion is is just getting that moment where you have to step back and recognize like you you don't know it all you know um but yeah I think kind of like what you said a lot of times believers do have that feeling and that's why they tend to ask these questions about atheism quote unquote uh that just go all over the board like I I get asked all the time about like abiogenesis and it's like I I don't know why people have this desire to have a single answer that fits into every single slot out there you know that to me again seems a little haughty it seems a little arrogant it seems like one would do better by just taking a step back and and recognizing that the world is much bigger and and things are more nuanced um but let me let me Chuck it over to Dave real quick and get some of his thoughts on this we'll give it right back to you Peter yeah fundamentalism of any kind is arrogance personified when like to to your point secular when when I was a Believer I was fundamentalist Evangelical I believed that what I believed was the absolute right way to believe and anyone who didn't believe like me was wrong in some in some regard even other born-again Christians if they didn't if they weren't charismatic if they didn't have the power of the Holy Spirit like I supposedly did then they were just getting it a little bit more wrong than me and it is the height of arrogance to think that whatever our position is on anything is the only correct position and I know there are Christians there are people of Faith who don't hold these fundamentalist views they're they're more open-minded they they might say something like well I believe in God this way but if you believe in him differently or in a different God then I'm okay with that because I may be wrong I have more tolerance for that kind of Faith even though I'm I'm someone who believes that we would be better off as as a as humans as as were in the world if there were no religions at all if there was no faith if we just lived by Logic and reason and what the evidence showed us but if there has to be some kind of Faith somewhere I'd rather it be more of the open-minded variety rather than the the arrogance of believing or even knowing I mean the evangelicals in my life my family members and so on they will tell you if you ask them that their View their worldview is 100 correct and anyone who differs from that is just wrong I mean there's just just nothing more arrogant than that and and this God of the universe thinks I'm really special by the way that I'm the apple of his eye and I'm formed in His image and all that and this God listens to everything I say and oh yeah watch is everything I do all the time this God's eyes are on me and on every person in the world and that's just more nonsense than I can than I can rap in my in my little p brain uh the arrogance of of belief in this fundamentalist framework it's just off the charts and I I don't even know what to do with it anymore when I talk to people who are 100 convinced that whatever they and I'm not convinced there's no God I just don't see evidence enough to believe in one I'm not sitting here saying as an atheist that I believe there's no God I'm saying I don't believe there's a God and we do this show and shows like this inviting you to call in and give us enough evidence to cause maybe one of us you know maybe secular will cave in today maybe I will if the evidence is that strong call us show us and we might open our minds to believe my mind is open my mind is not closed I'm not telling everyone I've got it locked up I know what's right and what's wrong I I think the the most humble word you can say is I don't know and I'm okay saying that all the time about a lot of things yeah what I'd uh extend that to include is the fact that if God is willing to accept people for the level of understanding they truly have and if he really doesn't appreciate being told who he is then statistically if you were to look at the population of the United States that would probably be more atheists who just say hey I don't know I'm open but I don't know more of that type of atheist in heaven than actual people who are Christians making claims about understanding we may actually outnumber them yeah and I and I think you you brought up a good point there Peter um and and Dave said it just a second ago which is you know there really hasn't been anything that has given us cause to actually accept this claim that God exists right um but even even if we just for the hypothetical sake right even if we say let's play the mental game and let's try and go down this route we very quickly get to a place like you're talking about Peter where it seems that this concept has all this baggage down the road that we now have to answer for when if we just take the other route of hey maybe it's just not there none of that other crap comes up right because exactly what you said like now Peter we've we've got we've got to ask all these questions about like well well what does God really do you know with the the the non-resistant non-believer like not that person that's like running out there saying you know God definitely doesn't exist but just that that person who sits at home on a Sunday and is like I don't know probably not I'm not gonna live my life like it I'm just gonna try to be a good person you know is is that person going to be tortured forever in hell is that person gonna be poofed out of existence is that person gonna be made to praise this deity for the rest of existence like I just don't know and the reason I think I don't know on that stuff is a little bit different than the reason I don't know on some other things like the beginning of the universe or abiogenesis right I don't know on the a Biogen Genesis side because we have a lot of different potentials but we don't really have anything that's like concrete again that pushes us over into that yes I accept this but then when it comes to all this God supernaturally stuff the reason that I have to say I don't know is because there seems to be conflicting understandings and I I seem to be standing in front of two people who both you know are are genuine at least it seems like they both say that they're followers of Christ they both say that you know they love Jesus in the church and yada yada yada and they read the book and they understand uh but then there's there's contradiction and again that that contradiction doesn't exist for those of us who live in a world where we aren't constantly trying to figure out how this makes sense with an all-powerful deity that somehow lets us sports team win but kills children it's confusing honestly I don't know that there really is a good answer priorities that's right that's right that's right this God's moral compass is definitely pointed in the right direction yeah but yeah what'd you think about all that Peter I can get on board with all that makes perfect sense there's uh so much irrelevancy in the requirements of so many Believers like you mentioned a biogenesis on a daily basis a biogenesis really doesn't impacts my life I expect that there's going to be more answers coming down the pike and we have a fair bit but uh yeah there's so much that is so much work that's being done by what we do not know after having looked for it for a short period of time compared to how much we don't know after religion has been searching for millennia yeah weird how weird how we've made a lot of progress in the last 50 years in things like I don't know just Electronics or medicine or every other field out there except for theology it's just really weird how that's been the case but um but yeah Peter I I think Dave and I are are definitely in agreement with you and we're we're gonna we're gonna go grab some other calls and move on uh but we do appreciate you giving us a giving us a shout and we hope uh we hope you'll call back in in the future we we always love having having some good calls um we do also really love speaking with our theist brothers and sisters out there uh so again you know look Dave and I have said some inflammatory things already I think you know if you disagree with them or or you think that you have really solid proof and Dave and I look Dave and I would convert right here on screen if given good reason you know we wouldn't want to waste a moment we could die tomorrow and we would hate to not spend the rest of our lives in heaven uh with with the almighty but uh if nobody calls I guess we'll just stay be in heathens and and karate corrupting the world and and whatnot but uh 512-991-9242 or tiny.cc slash call axp you can convince us and uh you know I guess win you some points in heaven do you get a better spot in heaven if you convert more people is that how it works more crowns more crowns and a bigger mansion that's what it is that's what it is totally makes that whole thing about the Mansions that's that's uh yeah I think the uh uh televangelists have taken that one literally yeah right right they're getting their mansion here you know for some of them I've heard that I've heard that they they didn't they didn't you know take any money from the church they they just sold books and that's that's how they got all their money totally legitimately not not uh yeah right yeah well we have a super chat uh two dollars from will Dwyer says my neighbor has a yard sign with a verse on it I'm assuming it's one of those nice sweet verses like Dave was talking about um I wonder how much it would cost to get a yard sign printed up with uh with some of those not as sweet verses you know the delighting and the bashing of baby skulls on the Rocks like that'd be pretty fun to yeah get your neighbors riled up it would I don't know what that verse is that your neighbor's yard sign has yeah yeah tell us tell us what that verse was will uh we we'd love to hear it and before we grab our next call I am going to remind you about something that is coming up and it is super duper cool if you've never heard of it there's there's a little place called Austin Texas and in Austin Texas every every uh you know late spring early summer-ish there's just a whole bunch of bats and this year on August 26th the annual bat cruise for the ACA is coming back and so you can join all of the wonderful people at the atheist community of Austin and uh chat it up with like-minded free thinkers uh hang out you know look at bats look at the water uh look at the scenery it's actually really beautiful around there but you can meet some wonderful people like Forest valkai J Mike and other hosts of The Atheist Experience I I think Kelly might even be there if that's not true uh Kelly will yell at me in the Discord after show but come hang out with all of your favorite people as you travel around Lady Bird Lake and at the end of this awesome two-hour Cruise it will pause at the Congress Avenue Bridge at sundown for the emergence of the world's largest urban bat Colony so get your tickets right now at tiny.cc slash bat Cruise it will definitely be worth it you guys there is literally a million plus bats like it's in insane it's a lot of it's a lot of bats I I yeah it's weird it's like I don't know if they like all called each other one day years ago and we're just like this is a really nice place have you been to that I I was down there when I was down at the I didn't get to hang out on the bat cruise but I got to go and see it one night uh just by myself and it was absolutely awesome is absolutely worth it like they come out in this like little spiral pattern thing it's really really cool we did the bat Cruise a couple of years ago and the cruise was great and it was great hanging out with everybody but full disclosure the bats don't always cooperate and they didn't that night that is true they are live animals and sometimes there were people actually asking for their money back you know so we may have made it to make a disclaimer here that that we can make no guarantees but for the most part the the fun was just hanging out on the boat and being with everybody but exactly it's really beautiful so if you got if you ever if you have a chance to go and be a part of that bat Cruise you should take advantage of that it's a lot of fun yeah yeah and you'll love Austin too it's really it's often the great City yeah absolutely wonderful and before we grab our next call uh we got ten dollars from Thomas Watcher I have met both Dave and Sr they are both beautiful and wonderful people I send love and peace to both thank you so much Thomas and yes uh you are a pretty darn good guy too man I know good to see you Thomas yeah yeah it was a great it was a great time man and I'm excited uh for the next one next year so but we have uh it looks like we've got Mason he him in Florida wants to give us some evidence for God so great Mason that is what we are here for you're checking up with secular Rarity and Dave Warnock what you got hey guys how we doing it's good I got it I got into a argument with well it wasn't an argument it was a friendly conversation with a uh atheist and me being a theist uh we basically got to a point of a Checkmate because uh no conversation um we heard Matt Dillahunty talk about love and on one of his uh episodes there but I want to ask you before I started this uh do you guys have like a maybe a dog let's say a pet dog I don't have any pets yep no pets okay how about kids I got a pet I got kids Dave Dave does but I I also kind of feel like you're gonna you're gonna ask about like love and stuff and like I I have that I have friends and family so it probably counts but yeah go go ahead yeah I start off with pets because I don't want to assume that you guys do you love anything secular I am completely devoid of of both love uh um and friendship but no no no go on go ahead go ahead what you got for us well I would say that's a bad thing awesome if you so if you're admitting that you love your dog let's say there's a belief there that you I mean Matt Dillahunty bases it on chemicals in your brain like he just boils it all down to that uh which I've heard him say in one of the episodes and the problem with that is you say you love your dog or you say you love something but you can't demonstrate it okay the only way the only thing you can say are there chemicals in your brain okay but we don't know how those chemicals really work do you do you think that do you think that me uh let's just say because again I I don't have a dog so I have no consequences I have no dog in this fight oh I should have gone with that one first yeah you missed it I know I know I'll be uh anyway but Mason do you think like me uh going out of my way on a regular basis spending let's say like I don't know a fourth of my income to take care of this animal and give it the best life for I don't know decades do you think that's probably a decent demonstration of love okay okay so much like somebody that goes out of their way and reads the Bible and goes to church every Sunday absolutely not in absolutely not analogous at all because the dog is something the dog is something that absolutely everybody else can verify in a myriad of ways whereas the only thing that we can verify about the person going to the church or reading the Bible is that the book and the building are real the thing that they're actually talking about and supposedly having love for and with there is no demonstration if you wanted to say that you gave your money Mason if you wanted to say that you gave your money because you believe in the church and you love the church you love the pastor and you want to provide him a salary or be a part of providing him a salary you love the church building and you want to have a place to go to so you chip your money into the pot to make that possible people then you have an analogy to the dog that you're buying food for and taking to the vet but to say that you're going to church and reading your Bible and praying because you love God that you can't see and you can't demonstrate is actually there it's not an AV Avid comparison at all to to secularism okay well I totally agree but let's okay but we're talking about context here I mean this is it could be any God uh dogs what I'm talking about is Love Actually show me how love is real like democracy why does that why does that matter what is what what do let's let's say that Dave hang on hang on a second hang on a second Mason just give me a second I'm going to lay it all out for you we can we can walk through this together not trying to be antagonistic I swear but let's say let's take the two options here one option is that Dave and I can provide absolutely solid super duper robust demonstration of the existence of love and let's say on the other side Dave and I just throw up our hands and go yep can't do it what what is the consequences of either of those because in neither case no matter which route we go down this being an argument for the existence of the deity or the supernatural seems to absolutely not follow to me so help me with that give me what those Connecting Threads are supposed to be here I guess okay well it's very important because what you're doing is you're you're uh subscribing to an invisible feeling basically I'm asking you to show me how love is real you're telling me yes I can care for the dog and I can lust for the girl or you can do whatever you want but you're not showing me love and this is what this is the important thing is that God is Not demons it can't be demonstrated much like there you go I think that's a I think that's great I'm glad you finally admitted that I I I'm excited to welcome you into the into the depths of hell with the rest of us non-believers if you're just saying your God is equivalent to a concept then congratulations you're you're in good company of people like Andrew Tate but not in the slightest not in the slightest because what the difference is once again is you are claiming you are claiming that there is nothing to point to when it comes to love but that's just flat out not true what we don't have is a demonstration of love in the same way that we have a demonstration of the existence of tables or chairs or my freaking hair like yeah I can't hold love in front of me in a cup but nobody has ever made that claim right nobody has ever once even come close to saying that that's what love is we know we know that love is I I don't I don't give a crap look hang on I'm going to mute you for just a second here Mason the reason why I'm going to mute you is I don't give a crap what even Dave Warnock says about love you know why because I'm not Dave Dave is here and he can speak for himself and I can speak for myself and if you want to talk to Matt go talk to Matt like he does he does this all the time I'm sure you can find a way to reach out to him but what I'm saying is love absolutely is a different thing than like water or ice cubes yeah I totally understand that it's a concept right but it's a concept that is inherently tied to a lot of physical things that we can manipulate that we can go hey I got a thought in my squishy Noggin here and if I do this thing this person will Express they feel this way when we do that a ton of times over and over and over again that's a pretty good demonstration that the problem with the analogy that you're making and the connection that you're making is that you you keep claiming that the chemicals I mean you haven't exactly said this but hang on I'll finish the analogy you keep claiming that the chemicals in the head are the demonstration of the physical love that I put in a cup but it's not we we agree with you on that and you agree with us on that and so when you go back to well these people spend all their time at the church and they read the scripture over and over and they get the feeling inside of them the only thing that that is demonstrating is the existence of those same chemicals the existence of that book and the existence of that church and Community you're not showing the thing that is actually what you're trying to say is real and again if if really at the end of the day what you're saying is says well God's just a concept cool man but then recognize that what that means is is that you are not falling into the boat as the vast majority of other believers out there for a very long time because those people would hardcore disagree with you and say God is not just a concept so I got you unmuted again Mason I know I spouted a lot at you but please go ahead I I'm always laughing because you actually stumped me that was very that was a that was an excellent answer actually um well thanks I think you just checkmated me because no because now I'm gonna have to go back to the drawing board and try to understand because you're right it it can be shown first of all I didn't say it was chemicals though I I I I uh denounced that idea of it sure just for the record I didn't think that was but yeah that's mine but your answer was right on the month though I I wanna I wanna say because I want to take the opportunity to just say how important I think that is Mason because in these discussions unfortunately and I've seen it on on many different sides in these discussions there are times when a really good point is presented right like I I know it may hurt some of our viewers for me to say this folks but look there are rational theists out there guys there are people who believe who have robust understandings of that belief right and they do have justification I think there's still a problem with their arguments sure but that doesn't mean that they're they're just idiots that are just crapping out their mouths all the time of course not and it's it's valuable in these discussions that everybody on whatever freaking side we're on take a moment when there really is something that that that shakes our belief that shakes our understanding for us to just put up our hands and go you know what hang on a second that's actually kind of good man let me think about that and that's good and that's what I'm gonna that's what I'm gonna encourage Mason is like I Know Myself Dave we will be back on this show there are other phenomenal hosts uh that are coming up next week and the weeks after they can't all be as good as me and Dave but you know whatever uh no I'm teasing but let me add to what secular said one more point just a second let let Dave chat and we'll kick it right back to you okay what I wanted to say Mason is I really appreciated you acknowledging that that secular made a point that that made sense to you and so what I would really encourage you to do rather than when you said I got to go back to the drawing board that's really good what I would encourage is don't go back to the drawing board with the assumption that what you think about God is already true don't just go back and say well I know God's truth so let me find another way to demonstrate that let me find another way to prove what I already know to be true go back with the open-minded open-mindedness to perhaps consider that maybe he's not there maybe what you've always thought about him was incorrect because I did that once I did that I realized I didn't have good evidence for God once I quit trying to prove my point and rather went went with an open mind to investigate the claims of this God the claims of the Bible the claims of the church then I was able to more clearly look at what was there and what was not there I'm not trying to get you to say there's no God I'm trying to get you to open your mind to the possibility that what you've always thought may be wrong I know that can be scary it was for me and it is for anybody I've ever known who did constructed their faith it's a very scary place to be because you've got a lot writing on it most people do but it's a more honest place to be so when you go back to the drawing board consider that maybe just wipe the Slate clean and start from zero and then see where that takes you just a thought totally totally that's that's interesting because uh it is a scary place because the more the if I get very objective with it as objective as I can I realize truly this might just be almost like a dream like there's no beginning there's no end we're here we blip in and out and the idea that there's no God or anything like that it just scares the crap out of me and I think a lot of people actually you know go into God because of that fear subconsciously they don't it's just you want that to be above you you know you don't sure it's too scary without it but it's comforting I mean yeah for sure and and I get why walking away from you know that that comfortableness is problematic you know for a lot of different reasons yeah um the the issue for me at the end of the day right if if we really want to tally up all the marks on all the sides where I find it shakes out time and time again is taking a little bit more of that uncomfortableness right up front and just biting the freaking bullet and saying you know what maybe all this magic and stuff isn't out there to help me maybe there isn't anybody that is you know watching me and guiding me to make sure that I don't slip and fall and hurt myself you know um that yeah sure it sucks man it sucks especially right up front because that's like that's like Point number one point number one you step out into this this game of life and you're like oh my gosh this is terrible wouldn't it be awesome if there was like a safety net to make sure that I never got screwed over so bad and and so yeah it's like you gotta step out onto the field knowing full and well that yeah that's not really the case but here's here's where I think the beauty of that is here's where I really really find the most gorgeous thing about life is that we get to do that Mason we get to be that safety net for other people we get to provide that comfortable that comfortable space and and and the only freaking moment we are for sure that we have we could all just be in a turtle's dream in outer space we sure could be man we could just be a bunch of brains in a bunch of different Vats totally freaking possible but it seems like at the absolute most basic it seems like this time we're here we're here and because we have that for sure let's do our best to actually understand the world around us even if it makes us a little bit uncomfortable because that's the only way we start making ourselves and others others more comfortable that's the only freaking way man it's it's scary it's scary life is scary life is scary go ahead Matt Mason well it it's Following the show for a long time and it just you guys are really really trying and I applaud it because a lot of people might be going over to atheist but the thing is when you when you say what's demonstrable give me the evidence I was just pointing out to hey look love is not really demonstrable much like God what if it can't I mean if you can demonstrate God you wouldn't need God you can create God if you can demonstrate you wouldn't even need it so I disagree I disagree if you could demonstrate God that would give you more that would give you more reason to need it because if the god of classical theism is real the attributes that this God had has is one that you absolutely want on your side like this God can literally move mountains I mean pick the mountain up and cast it into the sea like I'm not I'm not praying for for a soccer team to win anymore I'm praying for millions of dollars and for all the children at Saint Jude's to be healed you know what I'm saying uh but we don't have that demonstration we we don't what you're saying I think Mason is if you if God could be demonstrated you don't really need faith and that's a problem it's you're right but it's also the problem with this whole thing is that everything hinges on faith in an undemonstrable in an undemonstratable God and kind and he's just a concept that's why you have so many different kinds of gods and so many different kinds of religions because everyone has kind of created their own and many of them argue with each other about which one is the most correct when my argument is we need none of them and you know I think to the further to the previous Point yeah it's scary to consider facing a god facing life without a God as a safety net but don't you want to face life in the most accurate way rather than the one that's the most comfortable and I think once you once I got on the other side of faith and realized that the god I believed in was not true and I'm I'm here on my own yeah it's scary but it's also powerful because it gives us it puts the power in our hands not that we're wanting power but what we do with our life is our own to do we're writing our own story no one else is writing it for us and we get to be there for other people I like what Sara Bareilles says in her song Orpheus when the bottom drops out perhaps my love will be someone else's Solid Ground that's what I live for that's the thing that makes life beautiful is that we can be each other's Solid Ground when the bottom drops out no God's needed wow yeah that's very interesting in a way I and I'm going to walk away from this phone call going I got it and then 20 minutes later I'm gonna be stuck back into my thoughts of oh but what if they're how do you guys maintain the the this kind of thinking though because life is scary and suppose I get cancer or something I'm gonna be like the first thing in my oh man I'm praying to God funny you should mention that Mason I have ALS do you know what that is oh my God my mom died of that my mom said she's 55 years old yeah she uh she only lasted six months long which I find to be I don't know it's it was uh it was a really rough patch for me dude I'm sorry to hear that dude I know that's that was tough how old were you when she passed 20 and 28 years old I'm 35 now I'm sorry for your loss I've had I've had ALS for about five years so in usually the age because in familial ALS I would have might be able I would have probably had it it would have been genetic so yeah erratic ALS the genetic kinds only about five percent I have the sporadic kind as well and I have a very if you notice I have to lean back because my neck is is weak and it's getting weaker but um I'm sorry for your loss first of all but but to your point about what if you got cancer well I I left my faith about a dozen years ago and then about five years ago I I had I got ALS I was diagnosed four and a half years ago but I've been living with ALS as an atheist and that diagnosis did nothing to rot me in other words I didn't not once consider running back to God and and wishing that there were a God to to fall back on because that doesn't comfort me at all what comforts me is the love and community of the people around me who are here with me in my fight against this disease and that's I have a I have a community of friends and and family who who just support me incredibly and I don't need a supernatural deity or some um belief in something beyond what I can see and feel and know is true and it doesn't shake me at all uh to to deal with this disease as an atheist I'm gonna die in that and my belief is that once I die that's the end there's nothing at the end of that what that does it causes me to Value this life all the more no no you really much rocked my whole belief system here because this is you answered my question ultimately is yeah what if you have ALS and then and you still are maintaining that courage my t-shirt I am dying out loud that's that's my that's my thing I'm gonna make that a phrase and put it on a shirt yeah you can go buy one actually you just got them on sale yeah yeah you can get a nice you can get a nice Dave Warnock personalized t-shirt for you buddy and Mason we're we're gonna we're gonna go ahead and move on but before we did oh man thank you so much before before we let you go I do just want to let you know uh if you're not watching the live stream right now there is a whole bunch of people sending some love and support to you in the chat and don't forget man we we have a bunch of awesome communities that are run by fans maintained by the fans and and just a bunch of people get together in them when we're not here on Sunday so go check out the Facebook go check out the Discord and stuff and and chat with some people man you're a good dude Mason I'm sorry I'm sorry you had to deal with the loss of your mom to ALS yeah really sorry thank you so much thank you so much and you go have a great rest of your day and and give us a call back man like if you get some something else stuck in your head and you you know you're not sure about it or you feel like you've got you know a really solid argument you use like you know shout it out to us that's this is genuinely what what we are here for and I think you know Dave Dave and I said it both a couple of times on that call and and a bunch of times in our lives you know as well is is just we are the only support that we can give ourselves and each other it's us it's people and it is it is one of the greatest feelings in the world absolutely enough there's no deficiency there exactly all we need exactly when when someone is there to support you and care about you or you are there to support and care about others um I I you know I don't need a cup of love because I know it's real in that moment man um but we're gonna grab a call here in just a minute I have to read some of these awesome super chats mainly uh because they make me smile so we've got 666 from Hell's Bells I'm trying to make friends so here's some money with a little winky face love you Sr and Dave you are amazing people yep it worked it worked you you now have two more friends we we are definitely uh in your camp now and then we've got uh Park bum who has been a member for two months sent us twenty dollars thank you so much thank you thanks for supporting rational thinking guys if a man says he loves his partner but they don't love him back is he then Justified to lock them in a basement would that be a loving moral person or an abusive monster yeah I would definitely say the idea recommend that behavior no do not do that do not follow the god of the Bible uh because that is yeah that's how that would go and finally we've got uh ten dollars from hangfishi saying not that I need excuse but seeing Dave as co-host gives me an excuse to light this Boulevard a good freaking time doing that that's a cigarette that's what I figured yeah yeah yeah Dave is uh you know Dave he's he's this Heathen going out there you know smoking big cigars with his fancy clothes and you guys a couple of ways that you can support the ACA and this wonderful Channel if you like what we do and you would like to support us one of the easiest things you can do is you can become a member for as little as 99 cents a month just click the join button below the video and this will give you access to super duper awesome custom special chat emojis if you are a member uh like Park bum actually go ahead and just Spam spam that chat with as many of those cute little faces as you can um we've got a bunch of them now you know J Mike and Forest uh We've even got uh Shannon and Kenneth so yeah there's some others too um you can also send us a super chat with a question or comment and uh we'll read it live on air during the show like you've already seen um and then there's this other way it's it's incredibly complicated it takes a lot of effort uh you just like the video and subscribe to the channel I mean seriously if you haven't done that already you know Dave and I have been here for almost an hour providing you with with you know really great insights entertainment absolutely like I mean if if that doesn't deserve a single click of the button on that little thumb down there I just I just don't know what does you don't guys you don't want to make Dave sad okay you don't want to make Dave sad so like the freaking video already uh because it it costs you nothing and it's uh it's super duper easy to do so with that we are gonna go out to Colorado we're gonna talk to Lisa she her pronouns um hey Lisa you sound like you've got something interesting to talk with us about today what uh what's on your mind hey Lisa hello Dave hello Sr um yeah uh on the one hand well I'll say I've been deconstructing for about two and a half years now and the more ID construct the more I love it um but it's what it's really one thing it has done is it's really brought to to the Forefront of my mind something that I never really thought much about and and what it what it really pertains to most of all is certain times in my life uh in some cases very recent times when I felt like I oh how can I say it you know how it feels when you a very deep Instinct Rises up in you and you say you know I need to take care of this now or I need to rethink this or you know I need to take a different direction or whatever it may be when you feel like you've really got that thing inside you telling you yeah I need to do such and such but there have been sometimes in my life when that that instinct for lack of a better term has been so poignant and so just out of the blue as if as if it's something that I would never have I would never have thought of because it's coming from a completely different direction from as opposed to how I typically approach things so with this said that's what I find myself exploring now even though I'm I'm largely deconstructed and yeah I the the the god of the Bible is beyond appalling um but it's it's brought up an another question for me something that I need to explore and and try to find an answer to if there is one but that's what prompts me to call today because I had no idea where to start searching for an answer to that why is it that some oh sure sure jump in yes please yeah because I it almost sounds like something uh that you're dealing with now is is was one of the biggest things that that I dealt with when stepping out of uh Faith religion or belief in like the Supernatural and stuff um I had this very very deep feeling that every single tiny little thing that happened in the world for me was a specific message that was put there by the universe like there was this guiding thing um you know it wasn't like a guy in the clouds with a long beard but it was like the universe as a whole and there was something about out you know all of existence that needed to send me a specific message you know and a lot of times the way that that would that would present itself was very it you know sounds very similar to how these experiences are for you where it it almost feels like they're there there is this thing that I can tell is technically coming from me but like almost like somebody just whispered the answer into my ear first and then I said it out loud you know um so there's a lot of different there's a lot of different things about that right and the first one I think is really really important to to at least start to have a good understanding of is just coincidence um and a lot of us feel like we understand coincidence um but none of us have ever actually spent 10 years straight rolling a six-sided die back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back because when you do that a string of ten sixes is no longer particularly fascinating it's almost guaranteed to come up right so because of our very limited understanding of the universe as a whole because of our very limited time on Earth we we have difficulty when it comes to these intensely large numbers did did you know uh actually there are numbers out there that exist but could never actually be spoken because the only way to do so would be to list every single digit in every single place and they go on for a hundred million digits and so you couldn't even get halfway through it before you would just die now does that mean that that number's not real no of course not it is absolutely out there right but the difference is that our understanding of this small slice of what is existence doesn't really allow us to recognize that and internalize that in a way when we have this experience that is a one and a googolplex which is actually a number just in case anybody's wondering uh very very large number um that one and that ridiculous chance guess what if we have more chances than that statistically speaking it's probably going to happen and so what we see is we see the chance before that and it doesn't happen and then we see that the chance where it happens and we're like blown away we're like oh my gosh this has a one and a freaking ridiculous chance of happening how could this happen this must be specific this must be a message the universe must be telling me something no it's just that at this point we have rolled the dice enough that we can get that really weird moment where 12 times in a row you roll a six and it feels weird and it feels strange but go ask anybody that's played like D and D for instance for a long time I guarantee you they have a story where it's like man I don't know what happened but I just like rolled a bunch of 20s just back to back to back to back never had that happen again in my life you know um so there there is that aspect of coincidence that exists in in our world but is also very difficult for us to really really understand um so I I would I would offer at least that as one potential place to go look into and there's a bunch of mathematicians and stuff that talk about it and and you know it's a little dry sometimes I get it Lisa but it helped me kind of feel better about those really odd occurrences and then the other thing I would suggest is go look into things like Free Will and go look into things like like how the mind processes information and stuff um I know Shannon Q has a bunch of really wonderful stuff out there where she goes deep deep into the brain processing and and how to how do we learn stuff and how do we synthesize things you know because that is what our brain does right it takes in all of this information and information that we don't even realize we're taking in like we we think think about touch we think about smell but we don't think about the orientation of our body like our our head being up here and our feet being down there but if any of us were completely flipped upside down in a completely dark room with no sound and we couldn't touch anything we'd still know we were upside down like we would absolutely feel that and so because of all of that information that the brain is bringing in very casually right like you don't think about it but you constantly feel stuff on your skin when the wind comes by you're you know get a little prickle here and there and you're like oh okay yeah it's probably a little windy well that just kind of goes into your brain passively and then five minutes down the road when you're getting ready to to throw that football or whatever or kick that soccer ball I I've been watching the World Cup so it's in my brain um that wind plays into it and you you remember that but you never really like consciously said oh my gosh it's windy maybe I need to put this out just a little bit more towards the 18 you know um but let me let me shut up at least for a second maybe some of that resonated with you and and maybe Dave has some good stuff to throw in here but what'd you think about it any of that Lisa any of that valuable thank you yeah you can say no it gives me something to it it no it gives me something to explore and uh and and thank you for mentioning the videos uh of Shannon Q because that that really might delve into it because it to me my what what is really the Crux of all of this is um if I don't know it it's kind of hard to put into words that that really explain it well but it just seems to me that if you're you know you're going about your business or your your your uh you're undertaking whatever you know whatever it is you're doing that day and and you're also putting a lot of effort into the project or whatever it is that you're doing and then all of a sudden as I said it's out of nowhere almost like a directive from the sky so to speak um if something occurs to you something that you've actually thought of before but never did for very strong reasons you never did it um so it it just um just oh it just feels like I'm making something here and I know I said just get a yeah I know I said I was gonna let Dave jump in but I I want to play this game with you real quick Lisa because this helped me in kind of in in this kind of moment okay so and again it has to do with like Free Will and and this ultimately led me down the route to uh the acceptance that hey it doesn't seem that we do have free will you know now I'm not trying to push that on you or anything you make up your own decisions on that but play this game with me okay uh do you go watch movies do you like movies oh I used to like them years ago I don't I I don't find myself watching in the Mario pick pick one movie from your childhood that you remember watching pick one and just tell me what it is oh wow uh you mean young childhood or anything just any movie that comes to your mind just the very first one Lawrence of Arabia awesome now pick the second one what's the second one what's the next movie Lisa that comes to mind uh To Kill a Mockingbird why didn't you pick that one first you had access to it the whole time you knew the name of it you've watched it you remembered it Gregory Peck right great movie great book yep why didn't you pick that one instead of Lawrence of Arabia first well let's see maybe just because I even though they both came out in the same year um Lawrence of Arabia oh I'm not even sure why well I love them okay and that's okay stop stop right there though Lisa that's okay because the fact that you're having to think about this so hard right now is is a really good indication because it it almost as if that just came up from Within You Without You really having to do anything almost as if you know somebody just came over your shoulder and whispered it in your ear real quick you didn't actually go through a process of saying well let's pick Lawrence of Arabia because I'm a really big fan of the real to life story and I think it's a good understanding of you know how you know countries battle and like individuals you you didn't really go through all of that you just kind of pulled it out of nowhere seemingly from the depths of your brain and that's okay because it seems to be the case that's how we do everything and that that's all right that's just the way that our brain works it it holds all of this information and then every so often it'll just pick something and yeah it feels like in that moment almost like we're not picking it maybe maybe there's this external Force that's picking it for us and that's why it popped into my brain but in reality it just seems like that's what we're all doing all the freaking time and that was something that led me that that was something that led me down the route of eventually accepting hey I I don't have free will nobody does and and we're just all kind of you know dominoes falling you know in in place and whatnot and and maybe maybe a little bit more understanding of that will help next time you have that feeling and you think gosh I don't know where this is coming from I don't know why I'm picking this or why my brain is doing this maybe maybe that'll help a little bit I don't know does it does it at all or uh should I have just let Dave talk it's probably the second one but I feel like I've I've opened the brain a new new Avenue to to start exploring so that's cool good that's cool good good well to that point I'm just going to add this I don't need to say a lot more but um just remember that you've if you're deconstructing from Christianity you're used to your neural Pathways in your brain have there's grooves that have been worn in that in there you're used to believing that an external force is guiding you speaking to you this God is is is speaking to you answering your prayers guiding you showing you his will so and so forth so that's a pattern that you've developed in how you approach your day your life and so when you get a thought randomly you're assigning some kind of external Force to it that doesn't need to be there like secular said that's just a thought that came up out of from within yourself but you're used to assigning an external Force to that thought you're used to it being connected to something other than just you within yourself we we get used to these patterns and so part of deconstructing is truly not just deconstructing your faith in a God but deconstructing how you think about things how you approach life how you do your days what your day looks like what's important what's not important deconstructing everything about who you are and how you live life and so all that has to be reconstructed once it's deconstructed and you start developing different ways of thinking about things and different ways of even thinking about how you think and all of that is is something that takes time and and you're used to a certain way of doing things and letting go of that way of doing things or the way of thinking that you're used to it can be a little disorienting and it can be a little confusing so I think that may be also a part of what you're experiencing here that's an absolutely awesome Point Dave because yes we we don't think about we don't think about the the physical structure of our brain that much but seriously exactly what he said is true and we know this we've done brain scans on people and we can see that the brain has this amazing ability to rewire itself unfortunately that wiring can be hijacked and and told that what is normal and what is correct is actually wrong right and that's that's where I think a lot of the big problem of religion is it's because they hijack those neural Pathways and those grooves that you know stick in our brain because that's valuable that that helps us remember not to touch the hot stove right we did it once and our brain was like damn that sucks you know uh but again yeah it can be hijacked if if people have you know poor methodologies for truth or or bad motives so um but shout back to us give us give us a final your final thoughts here Lisa keep going on your journey sounds like you're doing pretty good on it so hang in there girl oh yeah it was it was so rough at first but it's been worth it by the ton um but just in closing uh yeah I wanted to take the time to uh thank you Dave also for what you said because it brought to mind uh a very old family picture uh I was in my Sunday clothes we were walking out of church and I mean I wasn't even in kindergarten yet so that's how young I was when yeah I mean I I mean I must have grown up in that from day one and I so I need to take I need to take I think a more a closer look at this whole component of it's I guess what I I guess a good way to say in closing is I'm realizing in at this stage in the deconstruction I'm realizing that it is a it's a far more personal process to go through then I I ever I would ever have suspected and maybe that's the stage I'm in right now it's really delving into just super personal super deep areas of who I grew up to be and and how I grew up and what I was taught all the time I was growing up so so thank you so much both of you fabulous guys because I this this definitely has given me something to explore here and that's great awesome and don't don't forget Lisa there are some absolutely incredible organizations like recovering from religion and the secular therapy project and they are wonderful wonderful places with some amazing people that work there and you can just give a call up to recovering from religion any old time and you don't even have to chat about God or anything just have somebody to talk to that's trained and um you know can sit there and listen and and direct you to uh to a licensed therapist if if you know necessary so it doesn't hurt to take a little bit of extra time on yourself Lisa so I'm glad you're doing it so thank you so much yeah this that was a wonderful wonderful call I always love those and again just a really good demonstration that um you know no no God's coming through to help us the only the only way we do this is is ourselves we have to help each other so uh with that we got five dollar Super Chat from Roger Wenzel saying thank you so very very much thank you Roger we appreciate your support and uh everybody else out there that's you know hanging out and watching with us now and in the future we greatly appreciate it and uh if you don't want to see our gorgeous faces you know that's fine we get it we'll cry off camera but we do actually have a channel that houses all of the shows of the ACA and audio podcast form you just check out tiny.cc slash a e n podcast and you can listen to all the latest shows from The Atheist Experience talk even truth wanted the non-profits and others on one great Channel and if you're thinking to yourself my gosh that Sr guy looks so great in that super duper awesome Atheist Experience t-shirt well just know that you can actually get some stuff too like we've got this limited edition t-shirt for this month that says hello I'm an atheist why you ask because believing in a God who sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself is a bit much to ask of any logical person so go check out tiny.cc slash merch ACA and you can get all of the great things that we have like the t-shirts the hoodies the mugs the phone cases I don't know maybe I'll just like one day come on here and just have like like an axp hoodie with like an axp t-shirt and like you know like the the the what do you call them spaghetti straps I don't know the only other word is wife beater and I hate calling them that no I don't know what to yeah I don't know tank top tank top son of a anyway I don't know where that came from needed a god there anyway finally I have got to say very very nice words about our lovely lovely crew we absolutely could not do this if we didn't have these incredible people they are there constantly checking up on us yelling at us when we do things wrong which is surprisingly more yeah than you'd think you know but they get us in line and they make us look and sound um as as best we can look and sound you know I think we're gorgeous I love the cat cam there it's it's literally the best part of the crew you know I mean they should just have the giant cat cam in the center um but you know whatever I guess I guess those other people do work too but we have even more wonderful calls and we've got some theists that uh you know could change our mind today Dave so let's go to New York we've got Yol he him uh says that he believes in a different god well y'all you're talking with Sr and Dave Warnock uh what kind of God do you believe in um yeah basically hello first um basically um um I'm actually referring to the yeah the god of the Bible and the god of actually Judaism and many other religions but there's a totally different interpretation that um I've seen a lot and different people um what makes it like a totally different God so it's totally it's actually a totally different god um real quick yo real quick I think we could I think we can kind of streamline this a little so I think you just tell us kind of what what version of God you believe in and then the god you believe in yeah and then just tell us why that God is what you believe in pretty simple I I will first actually give uh just to go through the basic art that a lot of people believe in and people don't believe in and and we know we know what that God looks like let's get to the chase we don't need a history of God here just tell us the god you believe in Define that God for us and then tell us why you believe in that God right um so let's go let's let's put it by the way you ever hear about Espinoza sure does that make sense to you worthless concept that doesn't actually explain or or clarify anything so that's why that one doesn't exist that's the reason why it looks like it doesn't explain anything and and it's basically because basically what most people refer to is like I would call it like a Superman type of God it God has to be a conscious God has to be someone someone with thoughts and feelings so it doesn't make sense to say to the universe is is like is like very super it's powerful is like uh we can't understand them because he's some somewhere some is that the god you believe in is is Define the god you believe in right so it's basically it's a very deep concept and and just like I just heard you they explained to someone how much you have to um take the time to actually digest whatever they believe it it's like in a complete rewrite of everything you know about the universe type of thing but so basically the idea of God is is is you cannot move the conscious part you can we can we can agree or disagree we will come back later about if you have it has to be conscious but the idea of God is actually the ultimate the Ultimate Reality the ultimate decider so let's say a question like um how does he allow I think we can just stop right there honestly y'all I think we can just stop right there it's getting kind of weird and here's here's why we can stop that is because we're in the same place where I just cut you off at the knees a couple minutes ago when you said hey you know Spinoza's God and my response was yeah it's a sense actually somebody using a label in place of actually trying to clarify or explain anything and we have other labels that already do that way better if what you're saying God is at the end of the day is just absolutely equivalent no difference whatsoever from whatever the hell is actually really going on in reality that's cool man but that's called reality and attempting to try to bring God into that equation is not only worthless but harmful because now we are less clear about what the hell is going on so I'm gonna unmute you here in just a moment I'm gonna get you back in and I I just want to know if what you're saying when you say God is just really equivalent to reality yeah but it's similar but much more okay so what it addition does your God have that reality doesn't if you're saying this thing is not conscious it's not a conscious agent not necessarily interacting in the world around it it sounds like your definition is essentially worthless and potentially even worse than that now basically is that the the gods we can discuss different countries or not but what do you think it is do you think it's conscious it's above Consciousness our Consciousness is actually I don't know what that means what is above Consciousness what the hell yo what is above Consciousness yeah Define that yeah please and you left me like uh finish what I'm saying what is no I'm not We're Not Gonna Let You Babble about stuff that makes no sense what is above Consciousness yeah you decided that Consciousness is the ultimate thing if there's a God no no I'm saying I can understand Consciousness we are conscious yeah what is above Consciousness dances is a tool to understand the world or to make okay what is above that I don't even think that's a great example it's actually above that object to reality our Consciousness reality Consciousness Consciousness helps us be aware of what's real right I'm gonna break this down because you're talking nonsense yeah you're just babbling words that I don't even think you have a clue what they mean what is above consciousness and don't say reality yeah because that makes no sense we haven't why not just go go and explain why there's no clarification there is no explanation you have done absolutely nothing what does your God do for you yo what does your God do for you why do you worship this God whatever it is you you didn't let me explain water no I'm not gonna let you Babble this nonsense we don't have the time for this I don't have the patience yo what does your God do for you and why do you worship this God because if you don't worship this God it's not a God right okay it's just an it's an abstract thought it's beyond Consciousness it's beyond reality you don't have a clue what these things mean you can't Define them for us we ask you simple questions you can't give us a simple answer you just Babble on more nonsense you have no idea what you believe or why you believe it and yet you're calling into this show to try to convince us of it okay now talk unfortunately he just dropped Dave good that's okay look God I've got no patience for that I I totally understand and I'm in the same boat and the reason that I'm I'm in the same boat on that and and this is really just for anybody else out there who you know is a Believer and wants to call in um please please understand that Dave and I are not children this is not the first time we have ever come across these Concepts okay and yes sometimes we'll ask hey that's a big word can you break that down a little bit for us you know and they just give us more big words any clue what they mean right I'm sorry I try to stay calm and gentle on this show I'm an old tired man but when people start babbling this nonsense that has no basis in anything that we can make sense of that that helps no one in the world it it's not a concept that's useful or coherent they're just babbling nonsense yeah probably because they just want to hear themselves talk on a YouTube show yeah and and if that's all you got don't waste your time our time or our viewers time because this this show has a limited time frame and we're running short on that now and we're not going to let you call in and talk that right call in with with your definition of your God and why you believe in it something that's concrete something that we can wrap our head around something that we can actually have a conversation about Joel you don't know what you're talking about and you don't know what you believe in and you don't know why so you just wasted all of our time and made me mad and with so many incredibly important things happening on a daily basis we're watching as individuals lives are on the line on a daily basis in in the United States and and other places in the world right now you know the the people in Iran don't have time for this ambiguous worthless nonsensical God right it's just verbal dribble let's let's get to the point let's get to the meat of it and I I think I I I have faith Dave I have faith in our next few callers okay but before we grab them I am going to tell you about something super duper cool that is happening in Austin Texas July 30th this month of the year 2023 you can actually join us for live broadcasts of talk Heathen and The Atheist Experience talk Heathen we will be hosted by Jamie Boone and Jamie the blind limey and The Atheist Experience will be hosted by Christy Powell and objectively Dan four absolutely wonderful wonderful people and wonderful hosts so you know you aren't going to want to miss it the doors open at noon and we hope to see you there I was lucky enough to get down not too long ago and I have to say it was a truly yeah it's a blast I've done it twice and yeah I want to get back to Austin and do that again so I'm gonna I'm gonna have to make that happen it's so much fun and you know some days I understand how people feel they're they they got nothing going on there's there's nothing good to watch they they just you know they got time to kill and and they say to themselves like man if only if only talk Heathen or The Atheist Experience we're on right now well the good news is they actually are because we've got two 24 7 live streams axp TV delivers a constant stream of shows clips and specials from the over 26 that's right 26 seasons of The Atheist Experience and now Heathen TV provides you with clips from talk heathens so watch or simply listen to your favorite hosts and discover some hosts that you have never heard of before check out tiny.cc slash axp TV and tiny.cc Slash heathentv and you can join in the fun and uh literally it does not matter when I have showed up randomly uh to watch those streams there is always a bunch of people just chatting it up and having a good time in the live chat so if you want to participate people can binge watch the shows I've been on I know I know and that's super cool man and there's a lot of Dave what a great world yeah what a great world I know seriously more Dave is always good always so we are gonna go down to Australia right now we're going to talk with uh ultimated judeo-christian he him uh you were chatting it up with Dave Warnock and secular Rarity I'm gonna be honest I'm probably gonna call you like ultimated or something because it's a long name so I'm a JC short but yeah ujc but hey you JC how are you I'm doing well thanks thanks for having me on yeah what you got for us today biblically God's revealingly our opposite agreed say that again please no biblically God's revealingly our opposite agreed biblically God is revealing as opposite yeah I don't think that sentence no biblically God says he created us in his own image right and in other words the exact opposite of opposite right so I think we're off on a bad foot here yeah I see I don't think those words put together in the construction that you did uh actually tells us anything it would be like as if I looked at you at a restaurant and said like hmm water bottle by the sawdust yeah can't you like those are all words but together they they have no meaning so what what is your premise here today what do you what do you uh what do you want to say yeah just get to the get to the meat of it Dave and I are hungry well I'm hungry I don't know typically an ultimate fact is the opposite to temporalities no agree disagree 100 disagree you're using words incorrectly there in one instance you're talking about time that's the temporal thing that you mentioned and then another instance you're talking about something completely different you're talking about a correspondence between a statement and the world around instead of trying to give us riddles why don't you yeah just tell us what to do you called in about what is your point that you want to make here today quit quit talking in riddles please I'm not talking in riddles I'm trying to hopefully convert ye to judeo-christianity you want to convert US to judeo-christianity right okay what is your best argument for judeo-christianity why would I want to convert to that yeah that's a good place to start why would we be able to convert give me a good reason one because non-finiteness is the necessary precondition to temporalities intelligibly revealingly Jesus Christ dichotomously what the are you saying let me let me mute first of all I was a Christian for 37 years which is a judeo-christian because that's where Christianity came out of and and so I've already believed in that in the biblical Christianity for many years and then I came to the conclusion that I was wrong about that and I deconverted from that and I don't believe in that anymore so again I'm going to ask you what would be one good reason you would want to why I would want to convert to judeo-christianity and again just tell me in simple language simple words because I'm a simple man I grew up in Arkansas I have no choice but to be simple tell me why give me your best argument to convert me I'm in an elevator we've got 20 floors and you want to convert me before we reach the 20th floor what's your best pitch bro we're gonna unmute you you JC it give us just a second we will put a a 60 second timer on the screen for you and we will let it go we will give you 60 full seconds give it to us give us your best answer I've got an open mind convert me we're on the first floor before I get to the 20th floor convert me to Christianity go Okay so firstly God as non-finite nurse preconditions temporalities defaultly and perfect floor and I'm not budging so I was given one minute so I have to start again no you got time keep going you haven't said anything yet um perfect being theology revealingly complements Genesis 1 1 entailing judeo-christianity as Genesis 1 1 is a perfect fact from a perfect God as our ontological opposite what is I'm I'm on the we're on the 13th floor I don't know anything about the Bible what does Genesis 1 1 say You by telling me Genesis 1 1 is the perfect verse from the perfect God I still don't know what that says so you got to convert me we're on the 19th floor yeah it honestly doesn't even make any sense what you've already said you JC like I I know it sounds great when you use words together and there are some big words out there that exist in the English language that they have this mellifluous quality to them you know uh the sanctity and the beauty and the it's all flowery nonsense don't ever become a missionary yeah that's why you're calling yeah if this is the reason that you believe is because the non-finiteness of the existence of ultimated Actuarial temporality blah blah blah blah doesn't coincide with non-finiteness yeah come on man just speak to us plain okay just speak to us plain look hey I don't believe in the thing that you're saying and you know why because I don't think there is any solid argument or empirical demonstration that gets me to it so what would you say to another human being not a robot or or somebody that just wants to sit around just stoned out of their mind all day babbling what do you say to another human being who looks you dead in the face and says ultimated I don't believe in God why do you I think he lost the contradictory question because I know the god of the Bible exists there are two other points I want to address here I've knuted you again and I don't care of himself I know I don't know if you're watching the stream and I don't know if you'll watch it in the future but I'd like for you to watch the frustration on on my face and Dave's face and the reason why I would like for you to do that is because I then want you to go about your life and I want you to have other conversations you JC and I want you to see whether or not that frustration appears in other people uh when you have other conversations I highly highly doubt that when you have a conversation about your job or your family and friends or literally anything else it talks this way at work I I just exactly I can't imagine what kind of work there's there's no freaking way there is no freaking way you behave this way and speak in this manner in any other category of your life there is no way you would never get out of bed and Dave and I are here we are asking you that this is your chance do you really want to go to heaven and stand there before God and when he asks you hey ultimate it hey you JC why didn't you even try to present anything in plain language to that old Dave guy and that silly Sr Feller do you really want to stand there and have to answer for your lack of trying you have an opportunity speak to me like I am a regularly I think you're just trying to sound smart and it's not really it's not really working you're you're kind of sounding foolish and you're just putting big words together that don't really go together right and we're asking you again one more time which is the last time I think we should give you I agree speak to us in plain language tell me why I should believe in the biblical God that you claim you know is real one more time in plain language you have the floor tell us convert US Okay so finite facts revealingly are subject to an ultimate fact biblically complementing Genesis 1 1 what does Genesis 1 1 say what does Genesis 1 1 say beginning God created the heavens and the Earth and why is that convincing to you I know where is the connection there like what is the connection if what you're saying what am I saying is you're going to make secularity go smoke pot later I know like my brain's gonna explode like live on camera here like if what you're saying is that hey there has to be something out there that's like necessary and eternal first off I don't even know that that has been demonstrated sufficiently but let's just let's just play let's just get the boys it has been demonstrated but how in the does that ever get you to anything Supernatural or God it's just I I'm I'm sorry but but ujc uh there's not a skyscraper tall enough for you to convert me on the way up it's just I don't know I don't know what you're doing I know I don't know why you're doing it I and but if your goal is to convince people who don't believe if your goal is to convince them to believe in the god that you believe in you're not you're not doing a good job right you're doing a terrible job right and if there are people watching that were on the fence bro you just pushed them over to the other side today yeah yeah I I as a when I was a Believer I would never I would never say such ambiguous and vague crap like I just wouldn't oh he committed finiteness leads to I know I don't I can't even oh man temporality yeah temporality extensually exists with ultimated reality that's okay sad to end on that you know it was kind of sad but you know what we still had a great show I think it's still wonderful and I I think you know a good place to end is is just kind of reminding everybody that look again there doesn't seem to be any other thing out there there's no magic there's no Supernatural none of that crap and if we want a better world for ourselves our friends our family the Next Generation we're the ones that have to roll up our sleeves and do it and again as of yet we are 26 Season strong and still not a single good justification I thought ujc was going to have it but I know we were so way way too many chances I know I gave him a long elevator ride three times I couldn't get it done yeah not gonna shake my day I am still going to have an awesome rest of my blasphemy filled and Heathen loving life um but before we go uh Dave will you tell everybody a little where they can find you and maybe about this awesome organization that you've just started and stuff like yeah iamding out loud.org it's a non-profit that is designed to push back against religious overreach in the world of Health Care death and dying so that people don't have to put up with nurses proselytizing and praying for them if they don't want to so um yeah it's uh it helps people advocate for themselves in the healthcare space which is something that is more of a problem than people might realize yeah absolutely it is and it is it is awesome that there is finally um an organization out there that that is trying to regain some of that ground because again this is what religion does time and time again as they take the most beautiful things about humanity and they say that it's their domain exclusively and that you don't get to play in it because you don't believe in my fairy tale right magic um and I couldn't think of a better person to to be heading up that whole Venture man you you're an awesome awesome person and if there is anybody out there who who doesn't know the amazing work that Dave Warnock has done uh well again there are those 24 7 live streams you can definitely find him here and a bunch of other places if you just if you just go out there on the Googles and you type his name in you will be overloaded with with great stuff uh for you to find and to keep you busy so thank you absolutely so much to everyone that has been here uh Dave you were awesome I love doing this stuff with you our crew was great mainly the cat but the rest of them are fine too and all of you wonderful wonderful people who are either checking us out live or in the future remember this is uh this is a space for you this is a space where you can find a little bit of help with some of those uncomfortable things that that we kind of just have to accept and move on again maybe there isn't a safety net out there that's going to keep us all perfectly happy and comfortable our whole lives but you know what there is there there's a bunch of really really wonderful people that really really do give a and you can find a lot of them here and you know you can always check out our website at atheist hyphencommunity.org to find out all of the latest things that are happening here and feel free to reach out to us at TV at atheist hyphencommunity.org so uh once again Dave I I just anytime I'm around you man I freaking love it my day's better so me too bro we'll get the hell out of here and you guys go do something everybody we'll see you next time all right [Applause] we'll start opening your eyes [Music] thank you [Music] watch talk even live Sundays at 1pm Central visit tiny.cc slash ytth and call into the show at 512-991-9242 or connect to the Show online at tiny.cc slash call th

Channel: The Atheist Experience

Views: 26,279

Keywords: atheist experience, the atheist experience, theatheistexperience, atheist, atheism, atheist vs christian, atheist debate, religion debate, atheism debate, Matt Dillahunty (Broadcast Artist), belief, faith, reason, rational, proof, evidence, logic, fallacy, religion, religious, science, secular, Skepticism, skeptic, questioning god, doubt, is god real, agnostic, agnosticism, evidence for god, Christianity, Islam, morality, evidence for jesus, Jesus, Jesus Christ, debate, Bible, Bible contradictions

Id: nRrFIlI5eO4

Length: 102min 2sec (6122 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 23 2023