Gareth Evans, how's it going mate? yeah
doing okay all things considered we're doing all right. You are one of the best
action directors period! When it comes to action movies at this current time you'd
be hard-pressed to find anyone better it's amazing what you've done but what
really boggles my mind is like did you do martial arts as a kid? Where does that
interest that's so prevalent in martial arts come from with you? I wanted to, like I grew up you know as a kid like not watching and not reading
sort of comic books of superheroes but I I've said it a couple times of the
past but it's like when I first saw Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon which is
probably the first time I'd ever seen martial arts in on screen. Same here. It was just a revelation wasn't it that thing of you feel like you watching an actual superhero but you know flesh and
blood. No cape, no gimmicks just pure physicality and what he was able to
achieve and and that to me was like you know he was like God like almost you
know. Oh God yeah. & mean in that film. Yeah I know,
that was one of the things with Bruce though across all of his films. I
know like I started playing around with humor a little bit more and Way the
Dragon but you know in terms of his character in the Big Boss and Fist of
Fury and Enter the Dragon he was mean! It was about rage
and about aggression about anger about a hunger for revenge then also about,
not to be too cheesy on it, but like the fury inside himself and you know every
time you kill someone you'd feel it all etched in his face it was anguish. But
sorry I could go for the tangent We can go off on Bruce, it's yeah it's
unavoidable. Exactly and so that was my first
introduction to martial arts properly you know as a child and realizing no
this is the thing and um you know I think as in most kids in the 80s growing
up in the UK you know especially I was in the small
community so the only thing I had access to was
karate lessons down the road in a local gym right? So I went there and joined
the sessions there on the weekend, on the weeknights. And I did
it for a little while but I was the one running around the dojo thinking he was
gonna be Jackie Chan trying to do flying kicks and stuff like that when we do
a sparring sessions, not realizing there's an actual forum and
discipline to this. Not in a cocky way but just.... You are supposed to be learning to fight
Gareth not entertain people. I wanted to do the flips and things that
I'd seen Jackie Chan do but You're weren't the only one. Yeah I know. It was one of the things where
because I used to go with my brother and he would go and do karate lessons as
well once he stopped because my brother was more interested in football and
tennis and rugby and other sort of sports that was when I sort of stopped
going then I looked up to my brother, I followed him a lot and so when I didn't
have somebody to go with I was quite shy kid when I was growing up. So that
shyness was like I I don't want to go into that room if I haven't got my
brother with me. So I kind of drifted out of martial arts in terms of practicing it
and then I became obviously completely obsessed with the idea of
watching it. My Dad was the one responsible for getting me into it in
the first place because you know every other Saturday would be a
trip to the video shop on the way to go watch the rugby. It would be a
combination of like lots of different films that he loves he'd go for like
American commercial films and you know blockbusters and stuff for that
but then every now and then we would add to the pile something unusual, something
unique, something different and you know my Dad was a big fan of cinema so he
followed world cinema a lot you know he was I remember him raving about Nikita
before I was old enough to actually sit down and watch it. So
there was always like you know films from other countries coming into the
house and and he's the one that brought Armour of God into the house and then I was Jackie Chan and got me obsessed with all of that. The way I remember it and I'm sure it was the
same for you because we're in the same country, pretty much.
All the Jackie Chan film started coming out at the same time it's like
there was Van Damme and the way my memory is terrible but I remember Jackie
Chan film coming out and it seemed like every month there was a new one in the
video store. Am I remembering that right? My difficulty was as my video
shop we had two small video shops, very small sort of
like you know town community. A village, not even a town. So
for us it was like it was I think for me when I realized that armor of God
existed it was suddenly like oh there are all these other films with that guy
in. So the I can't remember it being
one came out and the other came out and they never came out I
think later on yes but at the start it was almost like - oh wow there's like five
or the films that I could be watching here, what's wheels on meals? What's
Project A, what's Police Story? Actually with Police
Story I didn't know that it was a Jackie Chan frilm at first cuz my my Dad had
rented it. Back in those days obviously used to get the the the box of the store
not the actual box of the film, right? I was quite despondent because my Dad just brought this thing
I was like I don't want to watch some American film about
police I wanna watch Jackie Chan and he was like no no no we watching this
tonight and he knew what he got you know but he didn't tell me he didn't let on
and then you know I remember we pop in the tape in and then he starting up
saying you know the Golden Harvest logo popping up and I was like oh my god this
is this is martial arts from this is martial arts film just being near that
was my association would go to harvest they would they didn't make anything
else other than just martial arts was to be si that opening crawl at the
beginning it was martial arts film time yeah it was 110
and then they unfolded and I was just like obsessed with it I remember
watching that shop in sentencing except I think we probably had it on a Saturday
so we didn't have to take it back to the Monday so that meant Sunday I would just
spend all Sunday watch rewind watch rewind watch rewind just that last 15-20
minutes the entire way through when do you think the seed was planted in your
head that you wanted to make films of that sort of nature that was very late
in the game to be quite honest I was sort of like the the thing with do
making my own martial arts films probably didn't really become an idea in
my head until moranto to be quite honest it was like it was actually I I just
didn't think that Welsh people could go off and make martial arts films it was
not Nathan there wasn't a precedent for it and so
yeah other than probably act marker shake chef whose thank you video though
well yeah exactly what exactly I wanted to be like the European artists
filmmaker type guy that's why I thought it was gonna be that's where I thought
my career was gonna go or at least try to do that and so I was watching a lot
of Japanese cinema a lot of sort of extreme cinema and I was kind of like
veering down that path a little bit you know borrowing heavily from Keaton or
Kim ki-duk things of that and me Kay and and really kind of I think you know I'm
gonna hone my craft in this then nothing happened for a while and then I got
hired to do a documentary out in Indonesia through my wife who had like
links to this production company back in Jakarta and and we went out there and we
started making this documentary and it was like I had been obviously had been a
fan of martial arts ones and had watched them a ton but then suddenly it never
really occurred to me that it could really be a viable part of my life in my
career and then suddenly I'm in this other country learning a brand new
martial art that I had not really properly seen before in NC lat and and
seeing these different styles these different techniques how adaptable it
was and how interesting the movements were found like a certain energy
them too it is quite circular in its movements sometimes you know with the
elbow strikes coming down low and coming back high and I just found it really
visually and Tristan I guess in a way and we met he go through that
documentary and we couldn't take our eyes off him we just thought he had this
screen presence about him and and so when I spent six months out there doing
that documentary it was kind of like a litmus test to be like ah can I live out
here can I can I actually base myself hug you and set up shop you and I felt
like I could and so then we went back out there and then you know after
spending five six months working for a TV company hated my job I ended up you
know right in moranto so obviously you've took in all this
knowledge of martial arts films growing up watching them when you thought okay
I'm gonna make a martial arts film now like how did you figure out the best way
to shoot it because I think instinctively he knew how to do it
is that just from the knowledge of watching films combination of things one
one was just when I knew I was gonna go off and make moranto I did like I did
two three three things that were key to you know and I look back on rant and I'm
still like okay I changed this bit I changed that back this differently I'd
cut that differently we all do we all look back at him you know find the flaws
of wherever in what we do human at the end today and it's like three things
that kind of like set me up ready for doing something like moranto was that
the first thing was a research I just watched and watched and watched all the
films I remember loved him back then and analyzed them and really liked try to
watch see what Jackie was doing with the camera what Sam was doing with the
camera you know and just learn from them and just like try to figure out why why
am i responding to certain types of martial arts in movies why am i responds
to the presentation of it sorry in some films and not in others what are the
things that feel Aggie and why am I feeling why are they feeling a geek side
never analyzed it before I never sort of broken it down into its its elements
before and so I started you know picking away at those films finding shots and
moving a camera that I really liked and responded to it was like it was the
first time I kind of realized watching something like the ending of heart of
Dragon for instance it was the first time where I realized when I was
watching that because it was just something I loved about the rhythm of
that sequence was something I loved the by the way sama was shooting that
sequence so I didn't really know what it was and then I said you know had this
really good contra moves here with the action there's really good dolly shot
movements in a Mesa camera tellingly Samurai better than anyone I go I'd
argue in terms of martial arts I think he's a genius you know so that was the
first thing I did the second thing I did was I actually shot two sort of short
test fight sequences with guys first all right the first one I did we don't want
to see these test fights come no no you don't
we want to know how the legend began ropey at the start so we did that and
then that was the first thing we shot was about six minutes out seven minutes
out and it was like it was like a group fight against each other then and there
climaxing with eco fighting against the iron and and you know it was like the
food one of the first few times I've met yah and actually I think on that proton
that little short thing we did yeah and then we did another one then which was a
little bit more okay let's let's go down into the car park of the office and
shoot the fight sequence where he goes to fight against an EDL was a seal at
Halim our instructor who will give us who did the choreography sorry with the
guy he's on Moran tau on the first film and we did a little sort of like short
fight there where I play around a little bit more my camera moves I felt a bit
more confident you know sort of starting to get to there and so like those those
two short films kind of like gave me an opportunity to try the stuff and to
figure out some stuff into you know scrutinize where I was going wrong and
then try to kind of fix that progressively then as we were leading up
towards what would be in the feature yeah I was still breaking them I was
still terrified and nervous and so that the third thing then and no this is the
most important thing and this is the thing that I've carried through all the
way through everything I've done since and I've never wanted to change that
method his previous it's it's just like the most valuable tool I could imagine
when it comes to action filmic and I just I swear by it I'll never do it any
other way than the way you have been doing it since then and it existed back
then because it was a safety net because it was did you get the idea to do
previous from anywhere else or did it just instinctively come to you as okay
this would be a good idea I want to say I must have seen something online like
you were behind the scenes of something else we made where they might have shown
to 7-Eleven really missing Hollywood for doing these fight creators and I would
see a lot of them and until John wick the fight previz was always better than
the final product in whatever movie they'd done it for yeah quite famous for
that well that was the thing I mean I get that was that would have been pre
them being able to control the fate of the fight yeah I mean which is a major
thing you know I mean unless you have somebody you know sat in
the director's seat that actually respects the fight and respects the
action design yeah it can go all sorts of different ways then you know but go
back to it make guys like Isaac you know I mean a good day that you know he comes
from a martial arts background he understands the fight discipline he
understands the importance of sharing we never missed it we just rehearsed the
fire oh really we we know the previous that no we just
would record it to remember it so we did but then Isaac on the day would look at
a section of the fight and say okay let's go through here to here and I want
to film it like this that's how we did realize it yeah see that
he's got out in his head that he knows exactly once awful for that I'm really
bad at I I always I'm on you're doing it anyway and you're doing it in the previs
yes yeah I suppose is very smart to have that safety net of okay I'm filming it
in the gym and we're gonna try some different angles out I'm gonna cut it
together and then we're gonna find what it is in the gym we're doing what you do
and then you want to set you have the blueprint then you know exactly what's
doing you're not gonna waste any time no this is we I mean what we start to do
it now like working with Jude on stuff is what we've started doing which is
Becky dough to be honest probably something like wish I'd done in
Indonesia as well just makes much more sense is that we would always shoot like
I said okay we collect a Tai Chi speed version first
so like when we're doing these little fight sequences I got all figure out my
shots with the guys where I'm just like I would score like 30% 40% it's one and
find a shot first because I gotta want em to take like an accidental clatter or
a bump or whatever you know when is exactly when is when I'm still figuring
out the shot take each shot one by one I'm like like 30% 40% speed I don't need
it any faster than half an hour just slow it down and then I know then okay
if there's a good punch coming from here how can I best represent that what can I
do with the camera I like how can I figure out the best way to show the
audience that peace of movement there and it allows me to get under the hood
sort of speak allows we discretize the action then an MBA but that's what Isaac
would do as well but he'd be doing it on the day after a fight day and he's going
show me again show me again okay what what I'm show me again and I'm like I'm
slim redacted so this fight sequence Christ I tell you
why this is such a long time ago is such a weird thing to can read to to revisit
it just flew over the bar yeah we were really I swear some of that stuff would
have probably come from like Sambo or Jackie's work it gets the traditional
thing of like Tom wasn't a lot where he has these shots where you have the hero
framed and then like an eyeful coming to Frank take it was jump in from the side
and will fill the frame with it and it's their odd this is the new threat this is
the new thing that you introduced him and and I'm guarantee you probably came
from there you know this this whole sequence a man we shot in this club it
was like such a sort of a small little space it wasn't that wasn't the most
conducive to filmmaking but I remember when he could did his first sort of like
low kick and high kick to the face I remember when we did it the take that we
had up using he was so so happy that we got the the Block in just right because
you know it's like with all things you never want to actually kick someone in
the face and so for that so just to get that that we always always told him make
sure it feels like a snap make sure when you hit it it's got like a snap and if
their if his time in and then the the stunt performers timing is exact
then it'll feel like a kick and feel for real I remember he was so excited and
happy when we did playback on on that shot in particular we work it looks
really good and this would have been this arena early in the production as
well when we did that nightclub scene can I just say that the bit where he
throws the guy and he does half a spin and any front kicks him across the table
we completely ripped that off for undisputed free or die security guards
Larnell and I think it was my idea to rip you off
but there we go did you think to yourself at any point I've made a
mistake even in the blue shirt because now as soon as the fire starts going to
be absolutely saturated in sweats may the worst thing was letting him grow his
hair was that was asking him to grow his hair
because it was like one of those things where he goes hair when it was long back
then would only look good when he was soaking wet with sweat because they
would just dry up and just puff up and and so we're always something in common
there I talked to me about dropping the stuff that you actually shoot into the
previous as you do it because I've never heard of anyone do that until you said
it makes perfect sense I have not been able to do that on my movies because the
dick guys always like I know I need I need time to write technological side of
things but isn't it we can't do that yeah well if this is always where I I
have to give a tip of the hat to Dan who made it guy from Indonesia because he
set up the network system for me and spoke me rotten in Indonesia when we did
the Ray too and I've brought down you over since then for everything I've done
so like he's worked on you were gonna possibly work on gangs and the system
that he puts in place is brilliant we're literally you know my lap his laptop is
sitting there on set near by the monitors it's connected to network cable
or with a Wi-Fi signal and basically while we're shooting every shot of that
action sequence my edit is sat on there and so when I when it when it sits on
the the thing there as soon as I call cut on anything obviously damage team
then are sending that file across to me over a LAN network and so by the time
I'm kind of ready to sit down at the laptop and try to drop that shot in it's
usually sat there on the hard drive if not I'm waiting like maybe 30 seconds I
see it we always ever said I could joke around about the fact that we used to
joke around about them how quickly can you get a file to me you know can you
can you get to me before I'm stood at the laptop you know this can I get back
before that keeps everyone on their toes a little bit you know I've been in a fun
way and so yeah so I'll cut that in then it's a while if you immediate peace of
mind oh yeah now hung a shot in you know it works but to see how it relates to
the pre this shot that you just did and you have
the previous anyway so you're gonna see how then it links on to the next part
yeah and and then also it's like well that's
that's the beauty of its you can see you know all the shots working because
there's so many different parameters and so many variables that could change
differently on a take whether it's a slight repo or the camera that's no not
quite right or whether you know the performance takes a little longer or
whether there's something that the actors done which is different but I
prefer it you know if there's something that's like that within within the
within the shot then or somebody gets hit in the face anyone or or or a
movement or an evasion basically when you get something that
just works right but it might not cut into the next shot or it might need
another shot to add I know I need that shot I know it right there in that
moment I'm not I'm not sort of like you know three days later we've left the set
and be like oh we should go back and get that in so if we add that to the
schedule please if we find somewhere we some way of doing that insert that's
like no I'm I'm good I know exactly where I need to as we're shooting it and
so I can make those decisions there and then in that moment and and yeah it is
peace of mind as well because I can see it coming together I guess he had
formulated but also on top of that you know it's great for the cast and the
crew because I'm not like precious I'm not so direct this is my monitor and no
one's allowed to see it like when I cut the stuff and then like at the end of
every day we might have like a 4050 second sequence and it's already put
together that's already edited together because I've done my little frame cuts
here and then little speed ramps or whatever I need to do just to make sure
I got it and then I've gone through that process so like when when people having
lunch I might you know quickly scarf down some foods I can just do 10 15
minutes of tweaking and tightening the cut and then at the end the date and if
anyone wants to come and look at the monitor even almost someone to go home
some of them will want to crowd around and just take a look at what they did
that day and and see it there and then and be able to be like everything oh
yeah totally it reels in morality this very hard isn't it make him fight
physically very taxing you know yeah get to the point where you just like can
this just be over and done with and do you really need another take
can we just live with that one yes if you're seeing that and it's really
working then you get very energized by that well the thing that most people
fall into the trap of shoot an action the The Hollywood Way I mean if you went
to Hollywood school they would say shoot the master shoot the coverage will edit
it all together I mean how did you know to not do it that way it's your own
thing to thing because I have to say this to be honest I used to make my own
little home movies when I was a kid knowing nothing about filmmaking or or
how they did it I instinctively did it the Hong Kong way because that's just
what made say I'm gonna shoot this bit and edit there so then we'll get this
angle and then we'll get this angle so yeah the thing I think so I think
because I knew I was gonna edit the thing myself is that we had internal
logic then which tells you where you would put your cuts and so I never ever
entertained the idea that we would do any kind of masters for anything in
terms of fight sequences you know I mean III to this day I hate shooting wide
masters of drama scenes even you know never mind action sequences I hate I
hate I hate I hate wasting you know that the time that you spend on going through
two or three takes or something on a massive white when really I know already
in my head kind of how I want to that seem to play out how I want to kind of
cut to it where the emotion is so hey I hate doing those wide mass as ever and
you know don't you think you're gonna need it and they are right I do end up
needing it from like you from an editorial standpoint beginning of it in
the end out of yeah yeah the beginning in the very end but that's the thing in
this IQ so when it came to action it was almost like nah no I don't need this
because there's no one shot that's gonna sustain you for the entire sequence yeah
I mean if it's acting it's a good idea so maybe a warm-up but before most do a
nice wide you know taking if you forget your lines keep going unless that's all
yes CNS but if it's action yeah you conserve people's energy exactly yeah
it's exactly but it just it just helped I get really hard saying people
performers prefer like that I think I supposed to do in
the long takes over well you got it or no me it's insanely frustrating knowing
that I'm doing a lot of stuff that's gonna end up on the editing room floor
and for me to be doing a movie where I know it's all been shot wrong mm-hmm
very frustrating and if it's a film that I'm starring you know I won't let that
happen I mean I mean that's a little bit not
now but if it's a bigger movie I'll probably got a smaller role and I just
have to bite my lip and go so this is a really interesting shot yeah this was um
I always knew I wanted this shot we we spent a while getting this one in
because it was and it's probably the first time I played with the idea of you
know when I could rotate the camera quite so smoothly because I came from
background of doing that before this had only done super low budget independent
stuff and so suddenly it's like oh wait there's a it was that thing of like the
idea of like the jib was sort of was quite complicated and the fact that it
allowed that kind of camera movement it was my first experience of doing that so
when it comes to some of the older stuff I've done some of that stuff like with
moranto I was very naive I was very new to the process so I remember you know
jumping onto a shoe thinking Oh will blitz ooh this could be really quick
it'll be just like when I did like foot steps which was you know five members of
crew so when we did Miranda Oh suddenly it's like 100 plus people and and I have
I really was so green and so naive throughout the entire process I mean I
used to go up to Matt all the time would be like gave me this angle please and
then you know he'd go up and and sort that out and I'd be looking at the
camera to kind of make a mental note of what the lens number was because last
case that's an 85 this is 50 or 35 and then I try to remember that for the next
day cuz you know I I I guarantee you that you probably looked
super super inexperienced with the crew you know had an an had ambition that I
wanted to achieve with the film but no real experience of doing a film of the
scale before so it was a real learning curve this one
us was brutal but yeah that sure was it one of these big things he said it was
that one that one wasn't a fig I'm pretty sure that was on a on a Jimmy jib
it was sort of like I wanted it to feel like the sort of you know when you get
those body cam shots where they're attached to the actor that's what I
thought it was fast yeah sure but that was the thing though challenge was to
kind of rise with him at the same time but then how Britain offered to feel
like a gimmick you know not because I'll be honest sometimes when I see the body
cam stuff or like a POV shot in an action sequence
I always find it draws too much attention to itself as a gimmick as a
setup and so when we did that shot if he could get up off the floor I didn't want
something they would take the audience out so I knew I wanted to glide up with
him and feel like we're it anchored to him but there's enough flexibility then
enough sort of like you know waving us in there so that when we do detach from
him you you're sort of back in to your traditional narrative where you film in
it then this shot here when he jumps over this one there that the start of
that that one coming over with him we were trying to rip off the the shot from
one of the Bourne films it was I wasn't supremacy ultimate supremacy the window
yeah obviously but we couldn't follow that far because we we didn't have the
sort of the same kind of rig so we had a crane that just went as far as it could
go over the edge before we had the sort of cold cut and audio cut in the shot
then yeah a bit worn one of the stuntmen jumps off the roof with him he was on a
what's right yeah yeah that's right yeah I had this shot with the guy falling off
it means a great directorial touch there the going he hits him gonna stick and
then he falls down hits the floor the the gag with the pole going through his
chest yes so I remember we we knew that we would get so far with our shot so we
had that we had the guy on a wire we had a pull back system so that he
would jump so fun and get sort of pulled back so it like mimicked the idea of him
being like hit with something so you had like a big sort of bamboo with a massive
soft noodle rubber thing on the end of it you know so it was like one of those
like it would just like to fold it and everything else here so he was he was
kind of coming to with that and hitting with that thing
and it would be like that the moment of impact they would yank him back to he
pump and like this and then and then when we did the one following down with
him we literally set up two cranes and and
we had the we had Matt I think Matt today or maybe D mastered it where he
was kind of on a wire as well we both suspended the the two actors there's a
stunt performer and then Dimas and then we kind of we had them in tandem dropped
down to the to the sort of the ground below which is obviously load of boxes
with a fake floor and rubber and everything else for the guy to land on
and so you know probably I think we probably would have done quite a lot of
civic speed ramping in the fall because there was just no way to kind of get
that done in camera or for obvious reasons because it was it wasn't just
about dropping a guy on two boxes something it was shot he hits the fool
um yeah he's landing on I think it's like boxes and a rubber Mac there's
something I know we just dusted it and then put some fake rubble down like
concrete floor yeah no no no no no it was a concrete floor so yeah he and
basically yeah we just did that we just did a whole thing it was a very
controlled thing it was just like it was like a pulley system where because we
need him to be both in sync with each other and that was the hard part was
getting after both going and then land at the same time Maran town compared to the raid what
stands out to me in the way you shoot in the fights it's it's it's got similar
feel handheld by the time he went to do the raid the
handheld became even more prevalent yeah like you know okay so we've got the
Bourne sort of shaky cam stuff where you can't see anything of what's going on
but it's like you've took that's or the template of the erratic handheld very
kinetic feel but you're you're doing in a way that we can see everything that
needs to be seen yeah is there some sort of shutter speed that
you're playing with as well ah I think so Matt would be the best person to kind
of our hand so that one when we think we did shoot a high higher shutter speed
for make sure we had knew the detail and it'd be tight more crisp in terms of the
focus it's of a more sharp following the movement of the actions who wouldn't
smear across the screen because we knew we'd have a bit more movement I think
the main difference between Weimar Otto and why the raid feels so different in
terms of our energy level is because when we would do in moranto we weren't
shooting on on sort of like proper what you'd expect cameras for film for making
a feature film of that nature we were shooting on the big broadcast cameras
that they were the old p2 card stuff right which was like the Panasonic p2
later cameras it was like the shoulder rig ones that you get for like broadcast
you know for news anchors and so for that you know that kind of thing not for
running around with an action thing we were sticking that thing on a Steadicam
and you know we we did a lot of Steadicam on on moranto it's why it kind
of floats and glides and that's why to be honest when I watch it now it's like
some of that stuff like especially that fight then by the bamboo scaffold in
like that that's like a we know that when moranto specifically for the first
two-thirds of the film is more influenced by Jackie's work so like
those fights a fight with a little construction site with the the bamboo
scaffolding it's playful it's not about then it's like oh we're gonna show you
this loop of rope because that's gonna get used now and we're gonna feed a hand
through it I'm gonna tighten them up and tie into that
you know there's gonna be a little thing that gets thrown into the face he's
gonna get scooped up and bounce off the the wheelbarrow and that wheelbarrow gag
or something we ripped wholesale off from pretty story to because the scene
in pleased story to when he rushes didn't pop up up up up punch the guy in
the guy's body hits it with a barrel on the way down to the ground and I was
like aw we should do that we should definitely do that
and and so it's more playful and then I got as the film progresses and as the
tone of the story gets more serious so does the action it becomes more brutal
and more violent than Brando I actually you know I go give a shout out to Mike
leader because when he saw moranto he was like there was loads to admire to he
was like I think he might be born in your actors out by doing too many long
takes on Steadicam and I was like yeah you know I think you're right because we
guys were exhausted I think about that as well yeah and and so when I came to
the raid then not only was I know mindful of what Mike had told me in
terms of that idea effect breaking the action down it's like slightly smaller
pieces and then being more specific with it but I had been watching religiously
this music video by Roman Gavroche Born Free the ma song born free and there's a
there's an amazing amazing music video but it's all about sort of like you know
SWAT team rounding up a bunch of kids with ginger hair so for that race
relations in America and basically when I watched that music for you is got tons
of energy going on and it's like it's breakneck in the pace is fast but it's
got this like semi documentary style feel to it where you're you're bundling
long over the shoulders of the SWAT team members and I just remember saying to
Matt this is the feel of the rate this is what we should be trying to achieve
with the red we should be with them over their shoulder and then as everything
kicks off we stay in their perspective we stay anchored with them as much as
possible and so it lent itself to thing where I felt like if we're gonna shoot
the drama in this way of them storm in that building and going in floor by
floor and then you know we're gonna have that sort of discipline in terms of how
we're gonna shoot the drama elements then if the action suddenly becomes
smooth Steadicam shot sort of just curving around
beautiful choreographed action it won't match up it'll be totally two different
things and I knew this would be a bit more
grubby and a bit more grimy and they were just felt like you know what I
think the way we should actions should reflect that it should be a continuation
of a style so that it doesn't feel like you've got two different films
sandwiched together and so then that lent itself to a slightly more handheld
style but also what allowed us to go handheld because obviously if we were
still using those big broadcast cameras we'd have no chance of doing that but
Panasonic could release the new camera then which is the af100 we were still in
the early days of red back then so we weren't what the red scarlet was being
talked about but hadn't yet come out when we did the red one if we had come
out we were too shocked with the red scarlet because I was the one we were we
had eyes on like maula version of the red is it smaller slightly smaller
version than the red yes still heavy but like smaller and more compact and so
back then it wasn't rain and so you know we were like right we're gonna have to
we have to use the really well didn't after we wanted to use the af100 because
it was the best thing that we could at that time for that kind of compactness
and so we we did a Frankenstein's monster of that camera where we recorded
out onto external recording to get four to two color
and then we had the all the bells and whistles on it and then basically what
we started using on that film was the fig rig yeah which might figgus been
wrecked for timecode I think because he just wanted his the pzi before for DV
cameras recording him once and he didn't want it to all feel that glittery
handheld you know in the palm hand and then it allowed them the flexibility to
shoot using these steering wheel rigs and we used to do crazy stuff like going
through the floor like turning it like this and if I turning it like this
you've got rip handles all over the place then so you could grip all of it
you could pass it from one DP to another DP you can come down really low from the
ground and then swing up and be high within this within the all the all the
time it takes this for you to lift your arms so it allowed you to reset quite a
lot throughout the space and then for us it was a revelation
actually using quite a wide lens so you're quite close to the action
yeah quite quite quite often I mean I guess we do in a specific insert where
we want that detail then we'll swing up to a tighter lens like a 35 maybe
something but nine times out of 10 we where we're hovering between 12 and 20
you know we're never really going like you know who never go in we don't go
wider than 12 because it starts getting cartoonish and everyone's just
stretching to the sides but 12 to 14 is kind of our go-to all right so this
fight this is another example of being stuck inside this most of like corridor
space and having to sort of the a go let's see we're in line with the door
earlier so in that shot to think of you literally in line until in order to get
the width of that shot and we knew with this fight scene I mean we wanted to
feel breakneck into the crazy face that was one of those Dutch tilts that we did
with a camera as well we did have an we did we're talking really about body cam
stuff from POV stuff right and we did have a plan on one of the shots there
you know when the guy leaps towards him and jumps on him and he crashed the
floor yeah did at that point to have an idea in mind of of having the body
camera attached to the back of him and to follow him on that leap rhyme but
Matt Flannery who's always right with these things was like dude don't do that
it's too gimmicky it's gonna break you out of there and it's gonna feel forced
let's just is to try to follow him and have that handheld field over his
shoulder you know I think I can get that thinking if I jump off an Apple box I'll
follow him on the jump and it was it was right he was totally right because the
the gimmick didn't really work that you've seen some punctuates fights with
extreme moments of violence yeah so we cheese Lee referred to them as
punchlines when we're designing the the fight scenes where I feel like you every
fight should kind of every good fight should have like four or five good punch
lines like good moments within the choreography where you get the audience
to do a collective gasp or something and one things I've learned doing this stuff
and and you know Christ feels like such a lifetime ago
watching films in a cinema with people is the the communal aspect of a fight
sequence when it plays out when when when one of those punch lines lands and
it lands hard the audience get a real kick out of it because it it creates a
weird sense of gravity within the scene so that when you see something so
outrageous knee other thing I'd say so when when we do hit you with these
pockets of like strong violence they're not prolonged so that you know it's like
you get a glimpse of something you get like a little bit of detail enough to
kind of like to fill that part your brain with it and then we whip and cut
away here we go should show you something else though and then that the
next build-up to what the next punch line will be further down the line and
it's just so much fun to kind of like to do those sequences and to kind of like a
secure the audience sort of like erupt into laughter because they realize that
you know if you're sat in a room of 200-300 people and then at the exact
same moment all of you have gone like that it suddenly becomes absurd and it
becomes funny and it becomes silly and and you can kind of like enjoy the
moment of it then so that when when the fight is over the idea is that you've
give you've taken them on that journey where the adrenaline is kicking up and
up and up and up throughout the entire fight sequences that by the end of it
when it settles I'm like quite a lot of the fights I do sort of it end the same
way where it's like it suddenly goes quiet you know so yeah you're in this
high energy high stakes sequence and then it'll shoot it drops so in that
moment that's when you get those moments where the audience and are all here in
each other kind of catch their breath and then they realize ah we've just been
on this rollercoaster ride this breaks out laughing because yeah you don't know
what else to do it's shot it's shocking obviously when we shoot martial arts the
one thing that I'm fully aware of and it's one of the hardest things to kind
of for me to wrap my head around is the fact that when you shoot it it's piece
by piece it's shot by shot and I'm guessing I can thank you you're not not
doing sort of like you know long coverage of the entire sequence from one
angle I mean we guess you your your experience has been similar to what we
do as well which is jigsaw pieces of the of the fight sequence unfolding right
yeah and when you do that the one thing I've always kind of found interested in
fascinating is how how you guys as performers maintain a sense of
understanding of where your head is at during that fight because you know each
fight tells a story every fight has a little bit of a journey and the
characters go on those journeys - and so you know it's that idea of like a
whether it's purely down to like show in the idea of okay this is where I'm more
fatigued though this is a partner fight where I'm desperately trying to get the
upper hand or you know you know all of those things is because people don't
what people don't realize when they just watch martial arts films is that all of
those things are shot over like you know consecutive days in sometimes 5 to 10
second chunks and so to have that sort of like that flow that through flow or
continuity in terms of a performance that takes you from the beginning of the
fight to the end of the fight it's a challenge and so like what goes on in
your head then when you're when you're when you're doing scenes over I think
you gotta make those decisions in the rehearsal process and just try not to
forget it on the day yeah and who knows oh this is the bit where I wanna or
maybe I've got an idea for a line that might want to say here or this is like
that where the you know the the axis tilts in in the fightin and I get the
upper hand yeah and to just remember to be tired as well because we are tired
all the time yeah and because you're doing it so much but you know as soon as
to say action you know you go into it and you do it and yeah you definitely
need to make a mental note if no normal real people can't fight for this long
with that without getting tired so that's something I try to do these days
which it probably didn't do in the past and again it depends on the tone of the
movie yeah but I think he's just got to make that decision in the rehearsal
process and just try not to forget when you're absolutely shattered yeah it's
not like it's not even got a script soft fight is it yes kind of in your head
well yeah it's all part of the design process in it and then it was it Jackie
Chan said something like it's me making actual films is much hard but because
you've got to do all the action and then you've got to act yeah there are some directors that come along
and they shoot something in a certain way that's so impactful that it then
becomes that you have to copy what that director has done so when I think of
John Woo it's like everyone did the two guns in a slow motion on the bills maybe
not the doves but you know they're trying to John Woo it up and then
Michael Mann came along with heat and he did what he did and okay that's the way
she gon fight now make it real make the bullets sound like there are three
buildings just a house kid with John wick
you know people a copy that style when you came out with the raid and the way
you shot the fights people want to copy that style because it was just something
that you know we kind of seen it all before but it was it was new enough that
it was something different the way you're moving the camera it's got a lot
in common with Saving Private Ryan from as far as I can tell it seems like it's
a higher shutter speed it's very dynamic camera but what's most important and
where people are people go wrong is you can always see the action and you stand
the geography of this and where everyone is and where the kicks are coming from
and it's not over edited it's nice to kind of hear that about the the fact
that it still got clarity because quite often you see people might be like I
remember somebody criticizing the raid to say knows too much shaky cam that are
framing it all off and then it's like and I'm like you know there's clarity
there like there's energy to them I agree there's energy to the shots you
know and I think that's the difference of it because there's there's a certain
style of like chaos cinema where it's just it's crazy it's like 15 cuts in
like every sort of like three or four seconds and it's all closed up you're
not release you in the detail I think when what we do is what we try to do at
least is maintain that sense of geographical spaces so that you're not
lost in the movement of something you're not sort of trying to figure out where
are they in the room right now you always want to know exactly where you
are and you know where the attacks coming from you know well the
relationship of that action is with the space that you're in and so I've always
felt like here we definitely bring energy there but I would sort of like
that thing I my counter would be that it's not a purely the shaky-cam
represents a style of filmmaking the probably different from what I'm aiming
for that makes sense because I want you to follow it I want you to to see the
detail of it this shot pretty sure we did a quite a long take with baseball
bat man I go and remind myself of this although yeah because there's three
people there yeah I remember when we shot this like very by the way you can
plays baseball bat man he is amazing like he was he was a
member of because on the tail buy that got that I'll give credit that that was
referencing violent cop the Takeshi Kitano film there's amazing bit now
we're taking slow-mo sequence and the guy just gets bomb hit on the top of the
head and they always went through me like I'm quite squeamish in real life
weirdly yeah I know this is sick man but this is just this is just condoms of
fake blood I mean we did we did loads of practical
effects in this thing like every time you see the blood spilling it's a it's a
condom that's being strapped to that person's body with where we kind of like
we took all is sort of the other sort of lubricant off its they were dry fill
them with blood stuck some tape on with superglue and then we'd attach that to
the weapons so then on those shots if we knew we knew we got like in and then
we're I knew my cut point was her pulling out the hammer so then when in
the next shot then we'd have their the hammers with a little bit of string
attached to the condom with the tape on it and then three two one pull and then
the timing would be perfect you just get this explosion of like fake blood going
everywhere that one the best yeah yeah I mean like when you got time
it works perfectly the problem we got nowadays is that we have we feel like we
have so little time to kind of execute these things do we really want to do the
practical could we not do the CG version it's like the CG version can look good
that's when you've gotta clean up the blood
it's a nightmare isn't it and I think I think what we tend to do now is we will
do a couple of takes of the clean version without any practical effects
to make sure that we've got the shot and then we do the take with the practical
effects and we do one more take with with the actual practical effects so
that if we're by that time like the first few takes you value and out the
the creases of all that shot didn't go right or the timing is off or the
reaction wasn't right and then you got the reaction right then on a clean
version and then the next one it's like let's replicate that but now with actual
practical effects and then you know you get the best of both worlds as if the
shot works well on the practical great if not you've got reference for the VFX
to use which is in camera this was this was a very very very cold field in Kent
in December I still haven't fully got the feeling back in two of my toes it
was just ice-cold there was unreal you mud up to our oceans and stuff that I
was insane yeah we did we do some you know this was like one of those
experiences yeah very much yeah a hundred percent I can we knew we wanted
to scramble a bike and then read Nick them with the shotgun as well Joel on
the bike you know and we did like some we did some pretty intensive stuff here
you know Dave judge was our guy for the Riggin so he did all the sort of the
wire work of the bungee onto Joel got yanked off the back of the bike and then
about to pop out through this window is Andy Taylor who's like part of our stunt
team as well you know you've part of the design aspect of it he also did the guy
who burned in with the petrol bomb as well when in the middle of the thing I
mean I could me and Jude and the team when we were designed in this sequence
like we you know it's that weird thing of being in a we were gonna connect
aircraft hangar or no we were in the big we were in the studio we put the studio
out at three mils so we could so we could build like the cardboard boxes of
the caravans and get a rough sense of placement and positioning in order to do
the the previous again in order to figure out exactly how we were gonna
shoot this thing and it was a pretty ambitious shoot
a phenomenal job the whole of gangs abundant I've ever seen action of that
quality in any TV series ever I've never seen action of that quality close to
ever it is absolutely incredible and I just want to say to people if anyone
wants to learn how to shoot how to film a gunfight for my money that is the ways
to do it there is something to be said about seeing the gun shoot and whatever
is getting here to get hit in the same shot and it is this yeah
OSs as filming of fights you want to see the guy throw the punch and the other
guy get hit by the punch in one shot when you can do that while you do what
John we're does that's the gravy that's what mazing no I I agree
completely it's like because I I hate that I hated the idea of doing like
they're my least favorite shots across anything that we do is when it's like oh
it's a it's a guy shooting a gun past Cameron and another shot of somebody
else reacting to it I hate those moments like they they bother me more yeah you
need them a skosh yes but the last thing is that is when you see that for me it's
like when we get when were in the loft in Episode five and mal is going crazy
yes is that the heroic bloodshed moment and he's like shoot the hell out of Andy
and then dives around the corner and shoots Craig in the legs it's a vanity
drop at each other and then they're like shooting at each other from point-blank
range it all just feels more visceral it feels more real infuse it's it's
difficult a ton of energy and it's the same way that we would do from like
martial arts then as well but it's like but with gunplay and I think that's
those are my favorite moments within them because it's just more immediate
there I think it's the same concept isn't it it works for gun fights and
amplifies just cause and effect in the same shot that's when it sounds absurd
yeah Gareth Evans thank you so much me it's a
pleasure talking to you and I can't wait to see what you do next
Thank You Man appreciate it so much it's been such fun to kind of just chat about
that you know and you know and obviously I know I've been
a fan of your work as well and so for that so it's like it's always exciting
to see like for me it's like it's always a process of just learning from other
people other people to do into you know you learn from each other we know it's
it's like it's like a shared community of figuring out what works and what
doesn't work so it's like you know when when you guys print films out when when
George Miller did like Mad Max or free rodents of that and with the guys if
we're doing John wick with Chad and David as well when they when you know
when we're all kind of like pushing to try and find what the next cool thing is
or the next like you the next thing was gonna be like man that was incredible
like we're all watching each other stuff we're all we're also learning from each
other and all kind of like analyzing each other's work so I just feel like
it's a it's a great community and a great sort of like opportunity to keep
pushing the discipline and then keep pushing it as an art form I think I
think you know like who took familiar with the stunts thing it's something
like a it's something you feel like should get rewarded at some point if we
like the fact that there's no stunt your stunt coordinator award at the Oscars is
insane because the the level of professional needs to go into these
things is astounding so I just love being able to be in a situation now
where I get to talk to people like yourselves I get to talk to and learn
from other people and and and take that on board and put it into my own work as
well so it's a it's a great road experience in it wouldn't want to do
anything else thanks for giving us some of your time mates who educate us about
the art of action
This series is fast becoming my favourite thing on Youtube, hope Scott continues getting such awesome guests!