POTENTIAL BP PICS ATTENDING A RETREAT TODAY AND ALSO A FEATURE ABOUT A MOUNTAIN LION. JOINING ME NOIS SUZANNE CRAIG AND CHARLES COLEMAN. HERE IN STUDIO WE WILL START WITH YOU. YOU'VE BEEN IN THE COURTROOM SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE TRIAL. GIVE ME A SENSE OF HOW YOU INTERPRETED HOPE HICKS'S TESTIMONY. >> FIRST OF ALL WE SHOULD JUST TALK ABOUT THE MOUNTAIN LION. HOPE HICKS WAS AN INTERESTING WITNESS. PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT IS THE LAST TWO WEEKS WE'VE BEEN HEARING A LOT FROM THE SCOUNDRELS OF ALL OF THIS. WE'VE HEARD A LOT FROM DAVID PECKER, THE HEAD OF THE INQUIRY AND HIS RELATIONSHIP THEN WE HEARD FROM KEITH DAVIDSON, A LAWYER THAT BROKERED THE DEAL BETWEEN THE PAYMENTS BETWEEN BOTH STORMY DANIELS AND KAREN McDOUGALL. THE DETAILS WERE VERY SORDID. THE BACKGROUNDS ARE PRETTY SORDID. IT FELT LIKE EVERY DAY YOU ARE BEING PULLED THROUGH THE GUTTER. HOPE HICKS CAME IN AND WAS A DIFFERENT WITNESS. IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE OTHER ONES DON'T HAVE IT ESPECIALLY FOCUSING ON DAVID PECKER, WHO STILL HAS SOME AFFINITY FOR DONALD TRUMP. HOPE HICKS IS PAYING FOR HER OWN LAWYER BUT STILL HAS A LOT OF AFFINITY FOR DONALD TRUMP. AND THAT SINCE SHE WAS A POWERFUL WITNESS. THERE WAS SOME HURTFUL INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT TO DONALD TRUMP IN HER TESTIMONY. >> WE WILL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT WITH YOU. HOPE HICKS WAS THERE UNDER SUBPOENA. SHE MADE IT VERY CLEAR SHE DID NOT WANT TO BE THERE. SHE SAID RIGHT OFF THE TOP SHE WAS NERVOUS. DID HER TESTIMONY AT ALL REVEAL A RELUCTANT WITNESS? WHAT ROLE DO YOU THINK HER TESTIMONY HAD SHOWING DONALD TRUMP'S ALLEGED MOTIVE IN THIS CASE? >> I THINK EVERYTHING YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, IT ONLY MAKES HER A BETTER WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION IN AS MUCH AS SHE DID NOT APPEAR TO BE A WITNESS WHO PARTICULARLY WANTED TO BE THERE BUT WAS GOING TO BE THERE UNTIL THE TRUTH WHILE SHE WAS. THE NERVOUSNESS SHE DESCRIBED IN THE BEGINNING IS SOMETHING THAT THE JURY LIKELY PICKED UP ON. AT THE SAME TIME, NONE OF IT, I HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE, AFFECTED HER TRUTHFULNESS. ULTIMATELY IF YOU'RE A PROSECUTOR ON THE CASE YOU WILL ARGUE THAT THIS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THE SOMEONE WHO WAS HAPPY IS TO HAVE BEEN HERE BUT THEY CAN BEFORE YOU AND THE TOLD THE TRUTH. THEY DID NOT HAVE AN AX TO GRIND OR A MOTIVE TO ADVANCE BUT THEY STILL CAME AND GAVE YOU WHAT THEY KNEW BASED ON WHAT THEY HAD SEEN AND EXPERIENCED. THAT'S THE TIME OF WITNESS YOU WANT AS A PROSECUTOR WHICH IS WHY HER TESTIMONY MAY BE MORE DAMAGING TO DONALD TRUMP THAN YOU THINK. >> THERE WAS THIS KEY EXCHANGE WHEN HOPE HICKS TESTIFIED THAT MICHAEL COHEN TOLD HER TRUMP PAGE STORMY DANIELS OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HIS HEART. DID THE IDEA THAT HE WOULD HAVE MADE A $130,000 PAYMENT OUT OF THE KINDNESS AND HIS HEART WAS THAT CONSISTENT TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF HIM. SHE SAID I WOULD SAY THAT WAS OUT OF CHARACTER FOR MICHAEL. THE PROSECUTOR ASKED, WHY WOULD THAT BE OUT OF CHARACTER? AFTER ANOTHER OBJECTION, I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE OUT OF CHARACTER FOR MICHAEL. I DID NOT KNOW HIM TO BE A CHARITABLE OR SELFLESS PERSON. HE'S THE KIND OF PERSON WHO SEEKS CREDIT. WHY WAS THIS AN IMPORTANT EXCHANGE? >> IT PLACES DONALD TRUMP IN A CONVERSATION. FIRST OF ALL, TALKING ABOUT THE PAYMENT THAT HE WAS AWARE OF IT AND MICHAEL COHEN PAID IT. HE SAID ALL ALONG IT WAS LEGAL FEES. AS WE GET TO THE BACK END OF THE CASE WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE FALSIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS. HIS CLAIM ALL ALONG WAS THAT IT WAS FOR LEGAL FEES AND NOT A PAYMENT FOR STORMY DANIELS. I THINK THAT WAS PRETTY CRITICAL. ANOTHER PIECE OF THE CONVERSATION WITH THE INTERACTION BETWEEN HOPE HICKS AND DONALD TRUMP IN 2018 AND HE SAID BETTER IT COMES OUT NOW THAN DURING THE ELECTION. I JUST THINK IN THE END IT IS NOT GOING TO LOOK GOOD. >> AT ANY TIME WOULD HURT THE FAMILY. >> HE HAD A RECOGNITION THAT IT WAS GOOD THAT IT DID NOT COME OUT DURING THE ELECTION. >> THE POINT THERE ON CROSS- EXAMINATION DEFENSE ATTORNEYS ASKED HER IF COHEN EVER WENT BROKE. SHE SAID YES. SHE SAID HE USED TO SAY HE LIKES TO CALL HIMSELF MR. FIX- IT AND IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE HE FIRST BROKE IT. CHARLES, DO YOU THINK THIS WILL BE HOW THE DEFENSE FRAMES THE CASE TO THE JURY THAT MICHAEL COHEN WENT ROGUE AND PAYING OFF STORMY DANIELS? >> ABSOLUTELY. YOU HAVE SEEN THE DEFENSE DO THAT WHEN THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY IS TRY TO SEPARATE LEGAL COHEN OR OTHER WITNESSES FROM DONALD TRUMP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE QUESTIONING OF DIFFERENT WITNESSES THEY MAY ASK, BUT YOU NEVER MET DONALD TRUMP AND NEVER SPOKE TO DONALD TRUMP? DONALD TRUMP NEVER TOLD YOU TO DO THIS. YOU CAN ANTICIPATE THAT WILL BE A LARGE PART OF THE STRATEGY. IN ADDITION, THEY WILL TRY TO MUDDY UP THE WATERS SO EVERYONE SEEMS AS DIRTY AS POSSIBLE. THE JURY MAY SAY ULTIMATELY I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE. IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY HERE WAS ALL CROOKED. THAT IS DEFINITELY A STRATEGY TO TRY TO MAKE MICHAEL COHEN SEEM AS IF HE IS THE PARTS OF A GUY WHO CAN'T GET EVERYTHING RIGHT BUT WANTS TO DO SO FOR THE PURPOSES OF IMPRESSING A BOSS THAT NEVER ENTRUSTED HIM TO DO THESE THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO GET DONALD TRUMP CLOSER TO AN ACQUITTAL OR AT LEAST A HUNG JURY. >> WHAT HAPPENS IF THE JURY DOES NOT FIND MICHAEL COHEN CREDIBLE WHEN HE TAKES THE STAND? >> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION. IN ANOTHER CASE I WOULD SAY THE PROSECUTION NEEDS TO BE EXTREMELY WORRIED BUT WHAT IT DOES, QUITE FRANKLY, IS HIGHLIGHTS THE IMPORTANT OF OTHER TESTIMONY LIKE DAVID PECKER AND HOPE HICKS. EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE MICHAEL COHEN AND YOU THINK EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS A LIE YOU STILL HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF OTHER WITNESSES WHO HAVE LAID OUT THE ENTIRE SCHEME IN FRONT OF YOU AND THEN YOU HAVE THE DOCUMENTS, THE EVIDENCE OF THE ACTUAL DOCUMENTS THEMSELVES THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT WEEK THAT WILL SUBSTANTIATE EVERYTHING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN TOLD TO YOU. EVEN IF YOU DISREGARD MICHAEL COHEN AS SOMEONE WITH NO CREDIBILITY THERE IS STILL MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE SUPPORTING WHAT WE HAVE SAID TO YOU DONALD TRUMP IS GUILTY OF AND THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD FIND FOR US. >> I AM CURIOUS HOW DONALD TRUMP HANDLED HIMSELF IN COURT LISTENING TO THIS FORMERLY CLOSE AID, SOMEONE DESCRIBED AS BEING LIKE A DAUGHTER TO HIM. DID SHE MANAGE TO HUMANIZE HIM OR THE JURY, PARTICULARLY WHEN SHE SAID THE PART LIKE, I DID NOT WANT THE NEWSPAPERS TO BE DELIVERED TO THE HOME, TO THE RESIDENCE FOR FEAR THAT MELANIA WOULD SEE THEM AND GET UPSET. >> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU IMAGINE MELANIA IN THIS TOWER WITH NO OTHER INFORMATION SO WE WON'T DROP UP THE NEWSPAPERS. THAT DID NOT ADD UP TO ME. WHEN I THINK ABOUT DONALD TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR IN COURT FOR THE MOST PART HE'S SITTING THERE AND HE HAS HIS EYES CLOSE. HE IS TRYING NOT TO HAVE ANY REACTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE COURTROOM. OCCASIONALLY HE WILL PAY ATTENTION AND BE WATCHING A WITNESS. FOR THE MOST PART, WE ARE NOT SEEING THAT. I'M INTERESTED IN HOW THAT IS PLAYING WITH THE JURY. THEY ARE WATCHING HIM AND SEEING THAT. I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT IS HELPING HIM. WE DON'T KNOW BUT THAT IS WHY I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT HE'S DOING. YOU DID NOT SEE ANY SORT OF OUTBURST OR FACIAL EXPRESSION, ANYTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY WHILE HOPE HICKS WAS TESTIMONY -- TESTIFYING EVEN WHEN SHE STARTED CRYING ON THE STAND. >> TRUMP DID MAKE SOME CONFUSING COMMENTS WHEN IT COMES TO HIS ABILITY TO TESTIFY. HE DID SO OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM. LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO THAT. >> I'M NOT ALLOWED TO TESTIFY BECAUSE THIS JUDGE IS TOTALLY CONFLICTED AND HAS ME UNDER AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL GAG ORDER. NOBODY'S EVER HAD THAT BEFORE. WE DON'T LIKE THAT. IT IS NOT FAIR. >> THE GAG ORDER IS NOT TO TESTIFY. THE GAG ORDER STOPS ME FROM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE AND RESPONDED WHEN THEY SAY THINGS ABOUT ME. PEOPLE ARE SAYING THINGS ABOUT ME AND I'M NOT ALLOWED TO RESPOND. >> APPARENTLY THE WRONG INTERPRETATION BECAUSE THE JUDGE CLARIFIED THE GAG ORDER DOES NOT PREVENT DONALD TRUMP FROM TESTIFYING. WHAT WENT ON THERE. >> DONALD TRUMP MADE THAT UP TO RILE UP THE SPACE. THE JUDGE CAME INTO COURT AND SAID VERY CALMLY THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE A MISUNDERSTANDING AND THAT IS NOT THE CASE. DONALD TRUMP CAN TAKE THE STAND IF HE WANTS. HE IS WELCOME TO DO THAT. HE JUST COMPLETELY PUT THAT TO BED AND SAID, LET'S GET THE JURY IN HERE. DONALD TRUMP DID THIS ONCE BEFORE THIS TRIAL. HE WENT OUT AT THE BEGINNING AND ASKED FOR WHATEVER IT WAS ONE OR TWO DAYS OFF. ONE OF THE DAYS HE WANTED OFF WAS SO HE COULD ATTEND HIS SON'S GRADUATION. THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATE RULING ON THAT WHEN HE ASKED FOR IT SO HE TURNED AROUND AND WENT OUTSIDE AND PUT OUT A FUNDRAISING NOTE OR WHATEVER HE DID AND SAID HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND HIS SON'S GRADUATION. HE'S JUST MAKING STUFF UP. IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE SEEN THAT AND WOULD NOT BE THE LAST TIME. THESE ARE THE GAMES HE'S PLAYING TO RILE UP HIS BASE. >> THE JUDGE SAID IT WAS A BIT OF A MISUNDERSTANDING. HE COULD HAVE USED THE WORD CALCULUS. >> WHEN HE STARTED TALKING IT WAS ALMOST LIKE HE DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING. HE SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT VERY CALMLY AND SAID LET'S BRING IN THE JURY. >> I AM CURIOUS. WHY WOULD THE JUDGE BE SO ADAMANT TO CLARIFY THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS ALLOWED TO TESTIFY. IS HE SIGNALING TO THEM, GET HIM TO STOP SAYING THIS? >> I REALLY THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE MOUNTAIN LION BUT SINCE WE ARE STILL ON DONALD TRUMP, IT WAS REALLY JUDGE MERCHAN BEING ABUNDANTLY CLEAR ABOUT THE RECORD AND HOW THINGS WERE BEING USED, NOT NECESSARILY THAT HE'S PAYING A TON OF ATTENTION TO WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING IN THE PRESS AND RESPONDING THAT WAY. I DO THINK THAT MAKING THE RECORD CLEAR ABOUT HIS RIGHTS AND ABILITIES IS SOMETHING THAT HIS ATTORNEY SHOULD KNOW. IN THE INTEREST OF PRESERVING ANY NOTION OF AN APPEAL OR ANY SORT OF SENSE OF WRONGDOING ON HIS PART, JUDGE MERCHAN REALLY DID GO FAR ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO IN THIS INSTANCE AND SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON THE RECORD IN COURT WHERE IT ACTUALLY MATTERS. I THINK THAT IS REALLY WHAT IT WAS. IN TERMS OF SENDING A MESSAGE TO HIS ATTORNEYS I THINK AT THIS POINT HE HAS LITTLE EXPECTATION AROUND WHAT HIS ATTORNEYS CAN ACTUALLY DO TO CONTROL THEIR CLIENT ALTHOUGH IT WILL NOT STOP HIM FROM HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE WHEN HE DOES IT. >> I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT IS GOING ON HIS DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN SAYING HE WILL TAKE THE STAND. HE PROBABLY WON'T. PART OF THIS IS JUST MESSAGING THAT THEY WON'T LET ME TAKE THE STAND. >> OKAY. >>> I AM SORRY ABOUT THE MOUNTAIN LION. I WILL SAY ONE THING ABOUT MOUNTAIN LIONS IN CALIFORNIA. THEY ARE BUILDING A CROSSING OVER BIG FREEWAYS TO ALLOW MOUNTAIN LIONS TO GO FROM ONE PLACE TO
