Ten minutes with Grayson Perry

Grayson thank you very much for talking to us today and especially thank you very much for letting us come into your studio this is this is amazing to get to to be here I'm sorry doesn't live up to the cliche of the studio what should it be like which will be covered in pain you know and there should be like half-finished masterpieces even again oh well thank you very much for talking to us the new show starts next week on channel 4 and you've done some fantastic documentaries this time around you've got a three part series investigating modern masculinity why did you want to tackle that subject well is it just their masculinity is behind most news stories you know most of the problems in the world you so think whenever what they'd be like if if men change their behavior those a lot of those of you know Wars and catastrophes and corruption scandals and you know economic meltdowns you wonder if they'd be different if men behave differently and so I think masculinity is a central issue because it's underlies so many different other stories and also you know being a transvestite myself I have been very aware of gender since I was you know 12 or something so it seemed like a no-brainer you know and also you know with the we notice that there's a map there's a lot in the media these days about feminism and so though there's a lot of talk about gender and I do often think that masculinity is the hard one to talk about you know it's like this it's because it's everywhere literally it's very hard to unpick from society because we've had a patriarchy for so long the dominant culture yeah that they have shaped the world in their image and therefore to sort of say well that bit is definitely masculine that bit isn't you've got to start really started thinking about have it how that works and of course also men are now suffering from you know I think that you know a lot of men really if they kind of examine masculine to their be happier without some bits of it it's not all of it so the cage fighting episode the first episode is a really interesting one because I think we go into as a viewer and you think that it's going to be about violence it's going to be about aggression but it very quickly becomes about something else it becomes you know it's about it's about depression it's about fear not things that men are comfortable talking about no that's their problem that is the central issue for masculinity is the fear of appearing vulnerable a weak because the the big dilemma really is that I mean for all of us and all we know but men the male version of it is there is this idealized version of what a man should be in the back of all men's mind and he's trying to live up to that and if he thinks he's failing in being that then he's shamed and he's he thinks he's going to get rejected because he has failed that so therefore he never talks about it because weakness will show that he isn't that and I think that that is the central thing the men have to realize that in talking about it and being a bit vulnerable not going to die they're more like to divert don't talk about it you know you think it's so fearful that they'd rather die then admit weakness and that just seems to typify what the central masculine dilemma really one of the interesting things that you see in that in the third doc I think you see you know as an artist my job is to notice things and I mean that idea of being able to kind of zoom out and get a bird's-eye view on a culture that you live in in as part of I mean that's a very difficult thing to be able to do I think and that's one of the things that that fascinates me about this how do you know when you've kind of zeroed in on something because some of it and some of the most interesting bits about it it's about identifying the thing that that we all see that we all recognize but but nobody's actually spotted it yet nobody's pointed us pointed it out even though it's staring us in the face I think well the third episode is about men in the city and you know as masculinity goes up the socio-economic scale it can become one of the interviewees says it he says it becomes gentrified yes which means it's sort of more difficult to spot so it's woven in - you know the texture of everyday life more and see and also it's not question it's not like someone being obviously violent or badly behaved but we know being a criminal or something it's like you know it's that they it's the way that it masks itself as common sense and normal that that's where you start I got lucky tonight I found myself increasingly looking things that were quite banal you know I was thinking is that banality a manifestation of masculinity and is it a good or bad thing you know so excited you know just something like the foyer of a business you know why would they want the same you know they're all beige marble and glass later yes listen it whatever you like they still like some bachelor pad you know and I just thought even in that they're quite male okay you know and then you start sort of investigating and there was a story in the media last year was there about air conditioning being sexist you know because it's set to a bit too cold for most women and so I think that I think there's a sort of ongoing project to look at those sort of subtle inflections that actually have quite important repercussions in our society about the way that men think their view of the world is the EVOO of the world you know there as the feminist said in the 70s objectivity is male subjectivity you're the default yeah exactly default man what do you think you discovered about yourself doing all this what about your own yeah I think you said at one point you know that you're actually pretty masculine person oh I am and more than you thought was was one of the things oh you know I think you remarked yeah more than I would have admitted to before now I'm happier to do it I'm I'm you know I I display many of the traits that that men have I think I've got pride around certain things you know that a very male like my sort of fitness or I'm very competitive or I sometimes to really check myself on on that on my determination to be right about everything you know which is a very male thing that's certainty and you want to kind of go you know maybe maybe you know and you know and and men have got to learn that you know being embarrassed being caught out being a bit of hip foreign hypocritical changing your mind you don't die yeah you can do these things and that's what men have gotta learn to do they've got to learn to change you know because they hold on to that role very rigidly because they're giving it very rigidly Oh from birth you know and that sort of five six year old who says I'm a man and these are the rules must not wear pink and you know play with girls and you've got to know that it's very difficult for a lot of boys to sort of let go of that because it's very they like that it's very well policed do you think that that's getting easier now that that people are starting to change change those attitudes or at least you know they're actually very slowly I think you know the nice sums of the chattering classes I'm sure are allowed to play with Barbie dolls and but I'm sure their mothers still be mostly xocai you know so it's it's it's it's I'm not expecting a revolution in gender anytime soon but what men have got to learn to do is look for words because one thing I have you know one of the central concerns that I have with masculinity new status nostalgic it's looking back to some the idealized man a lot of people a lot of men have in their heads most men have been their heads that they're trying to live up to without realising it is old mmm-hmm whereas Idol is woman is forwards it's like in the future we will be equal and as powerful as men and we will be like this and men are sort of going oh it's not as good as it used to be a man so do you think that accounts for all the kind of beards and the the retro sort of masculinity that we see on display in I think that we LED themselves to authenticity as well as authenticity and I mean historically is connected with crises in what is seen as old called masculinity I mean beards were very big at the end of the 19th century because they feared that industrialization was taking away that strength of man you know but I think the beard this time was more like a kind of rejection of the sort of cosmetic eyes to consume a man it was like you know we don't buy our masculinity we just throw it you know we're folky maxwell's now everyone spending 25 pounds on beard oil yeah what is that all about well capitalism will always market whatever is available in it Grayson thank you very much for talking to us today and from Cheers

Channel: The Pool

Views: 46,934

Keywords: The Pool, Grayson Perry, Lauren Laverne, Art, Grayson Perry: All Man, Interview, Masculinity

Id: rZENw0f5ugY

Length: 9min 59sec (599 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 28 2016