Tank Gun Depression just for Gamers? @TheChieftainsHatch

so gun depression in real life is actually concerned because I remember a while ago when people say gun depression is only something you care about in in World of Tanks oh no absolutely not it is absolutely a requirement hello everyone we are here with the chifton and I have a question for you why is there such a huge difference in height between the M60 and the M1 to give you the numbers the M60 the regular one was 3.2 meters high the 8 to 3.1 but the A3 about 3.3 and contrast the M1 is about 244 and the t55 about 2-4 so the thing is I mean the Soviets went for a smaller Target but the Americans immediately with the with the M60 apparently not but suddenly with the M1 they went lower so for me the question is was it possible to go lower and have good ergonomics or what was that what's the uh uh what is the point of reference for just how high the vehicle is so for the M1 are you talking about the height to the third roof or the top of the of the hatch or the height to the top of the machine gun if mounted because if you think about it the single biggest distinguisher between the M60 and the M1 is the cupola the M60 has this massive Commander's cupola with the inbuilt m85 machine gun with the M48 had as well which one when the Israelis got these Saints it said okay this is ridiculous they took off the cupola they put on a new locally designed cupola it's a lower profile and that made the tank immediately a lot flatter um you know I'm just talking about 70 centimeters here so it's the Cooper not that hard the Cooper is probably about yay high now the next thing the next difference is the seating position the M60 seating position is reclined but I don't think it's reclined as much as that on the on the M1 so this goes back Chieftain was the first one to have a you know pretty much a fully reclined driver's position in the advantage of that was you can meet a whole lot lower and if you look at an M60 Hull and an M1 hole the M1 hole is a little bit lower than that of an M60 so that's a you know another it an inch here an inch there and soon you're talking about some pretty significant difference uh the question on turret height yes there was some ergonomic stuff in there because especially if you've got large ammunition load and you're slinging around surround here you want to have room to do it quickly and the the Americans have always been more uh interested in ergonomics and livability oh it's a nuclear chemical environment well now I got to put on my mop gear and all this sort of stuff and I I mean I was looking you have around the corner here at the the HDM you have a leopard 2a4 and an M60 side by side because Austria used both and I'm looking in the ends in the uh in the leopard 2a4 and all I can think to myself is my God I do not want to fight in this tank in an NBC environment because it is so damn confining let alone even if you assume you already had your stuff on you're you're going to be sealed in this thing for up to 24 hours right it's it's level two or that that crap oh it is extremely cramped yeah uh monster as I say just go to hm just stick your stick your head in the hatch and just have a look because from outside you just look huge but yeah yeah no the inside is very different now part of it is the cages that the uh that have been installed uh the M1 is a lot more open because it doesn't have those protective cages uh we use a slightly different system but but the bottom line though is you have a lot more room is the crewman inside an M1 and I was talking with uh Stefan Carlson the director at arsenaline in Sweden and he was part of the trials team uh when Sweden was the was doing the fight off between the leopard 2 and the M1 and they said if there was any one exercise or any one test that the M1 just beat the pants off of the leopard it was the NBC test for the living inside the tank for 24 hours test you could do it a lot more comfortably in an M1 than you could in uh in the leopard too and although we don't think about it these days as being much of a Criterion of course in the 1960s and 1970s the nuclear Battlefield the chemical Battlefield was a given it was assumed it was going to happen so perhaps that was an ergonomic Factor as well uh the next thing about the height is gut depression so if if you're hiding behind a hill you want to stick just as little of your tank over as possible and then aim down and you present a lot less of your of your tank well if you have a taller tank you can point down more because the only two-thirds of the gun is inside is outside the tank the other third of the gun is on the inside so when the front of the gun goes down the back of the gun has to come up and there has to be enough room for the back of the gun to come up without hitting the roof so gun depression in real life is actually a concerned because I remember a while ago when people say Gandhi pressure is only something you care about in in World of Tanks oh no absolutely not it is absolutely a requirement and especially if you look at the lengths that the Koreans and Japanese have gone to in their mountainous terrain to make sure that not only will the gun go down as far as possible they will then install Hydro pneumatic suspension to make the tank tilt even more uh it it always has been a a requirement you look into the the archives in World War II and you're talking about the specifications the desired specifications for this tank elevation and depression will be listed as a desired specification and uh you know one of the test reports I've seen for the t-32 heavy tank was yet the specification required negative 10 depression in testing we could only get Negative 8.2 or something this is a problem which I presume they might have eventually fixed over time had the had the time continued on uh now there are always around if you look at the turret over the clerk for example you'll see the sides of the turret are much flatter and more angled but the middle of the turret on top of the gun sticks up a lot more and again that's so that the breach has some place to go when you depress the gun so that's another reason why you're going to have a higher turret vehicle that's going to be a higher gun depression out on the other hand you look at a t-72's gun depression it's like three degrees well the t72 wasn't exactly designed to be standing you know sitting behind a hill waiting in Ambush so it doesn't matter to the to the Soviets that they had they designed it with negative three depression uh so the M1 the requirement again was negative 10 degrees I don't know why negative 10 degrees has been the U.S standard for 80 years now but it's the standard and uh so between the Q that doesn't answer the difference between the M1 and the M60 and again this is one of these tangents we're trying to give you more reason to watch the video here back to that so so for me the question is was there a major difference but it seems for me it's answered to a certain degree due to the huge cupola and then slide adaptations in yeah there's no there's no philosophical difference so no there's not visual like like okay now we go with the Sovereign style of everything as small as possible no no there's no there was never a philosophical difference uh the Army does have its uh back in the day they call it human factors these days we call it ergonomics and there there is always an assessment of just how many you know cubic feet of room each individual crewman has in the tank because they have their standards like the the an American tank is supposed to be between the fifth percentile and the 95th percentile of Americans should be able to fit to be inside the tank that is not a universal standard so I was doing some research on the on the Swedish s-tank for example and those standards were like 10 to 80 percent so an American tank is designed that it could be comfortably operated by a wider range of people physically it would just people my height I fit in an M1 I fit in an M60 I'm a little bit more iffy in some other vehicles but the Americans deliberately put in this wider range I don't know why they said oh white we'll just get short people in maybe they just figured we're pretty much a volunteer army if somebody wants to be a tanker and they're good at it why should we prohibit them yeah I mean is it worth it while making this thing just a little bit bigger in order to get more people that can do it Americans are more concerned about Manpower and sparing Manpower uh yes that's that's different for if you look at the the other countries yeah well it depends on the countries the best generally the best usually if you look at the second world war best of Germany is usually more concerned about losses then because I think on a meta level if you look at it one factor of one not not d one factor if um for what if you compare the Germans with the British the Americans and the Soviets the British and Americans were very concerned about their human losses the Soviet not really and I think the Germans were I think concerned but not that much and I think that allowed them to a certain degree to have a higher tactical Effectiveness but which which you have to trade I mean there was the one point made you can't trade tactical efficient Effectiveness to get it higher but generally it's it's on the Strategic level for instance the Americans were especially foreign concerned about Manpower losses so they say okay we are spending more on Firepower and everything else to conserve that and for instance I mean one quote I read about in the German file of the second verbal was very interesting they noted um as usual the enemy prepares to fire we prefer to attack and this was sounded quite arrogant to a certain degree but the other thing is the there are several times I found in early buenos in late world that the German officers complained about the German soldiers that they did not dig in enough or fast enough which is really interesting because they were like they were complaining our guys don't dig in really well or something well that's something that the US is dealing with so just before I go into the digging in question which is now getting into infantry territory by the way but thanks well again as well um I don't know if I'd say the Russians weren't concerned about losses I just don't think they realized they had a choice they give a less concern let's put it that way I mean you you can you can just look at the numbers for the second world war how many soldiers were um sentenced to death sentence this doesn't mean they were necessarily shot you have American British and French are around at most 200 and and by the way sentence for death because some someone the last time I showed the graphic noted that for the Americans these were murderers and rapists and everything for all the countries so sentenced for death for everything and the Germans about 20 to 30 000 they are not entirely sure about the numbers because later and I think for the Soviet it was 200 000 or some so you see the graph and you see okay well but how big was the German Army compared to the Soviet Army I mean there's a surface for 10 times as big you're talking about the same ratio I think they did about 10 times this big I don't think that the Germans mobilized a lot of man actually but but but you see them the you see the scale is so so hugely different and then you see to a certain degree indirectly I think how they reflect and because it's very interesting if you compare for the German Army first bomber again second world war because in the first world war it was basically none it was I think 100 people or something and there you can actually see the major shift and also with the ideology and everything else because it's very interesting if you compare the German Army first world by and second world war in many in in some cases the in the second world war it was more effective but in other ways you can always see okay there's something went terribly wrong in in that case particularly but sorry I'm going to go back right quick to the digging in so it's an another example of what the Ukraine war has been teaching us So for anybody who is in the US infantry let's say 20 years ago 25 years ago there's a rule of thumb that you always have your your entrenching tool your little shovel uh which for some reason is still spelled i i n not en I don't know why uh it's your World War II spelling and you would also carry empty sandbags you carry like a half dozen empty sandbags and the rule was generally if you're in place for anything more than an hour he had better drug what they call a ranger grave it's like you know this deep shallow enough for you to just get in and things going sideways aren't going to hit you if you're there for more than let's say six hours you've now taken a foxhole or a fighting position and so on and that's why you had those sandbags with you could fill the sandbags to help we went away from that so uh you'd have to be fairly old to remember these days but now again we're looking at uh we're looking at Ukraine and one of the lessons the Americans are taking is yes the American army is all about maneuver but by God you got a dig as well and I I think that hasn't changed realistically it hasn't changed in many years we just gotten so used to maneuvering on our own terms and that we haven't needed to go back to digging but uh now they're saying okay guys you need to we need to both be maneuverable and dig which of course means the soldiers aren't going to get any sleep because they're either maneuvering or they're digging trenches but there's no way around it um I I had another argument or a debate recently uh there was a Soviet act that was hit by GPS shells and watch a GPS a a Precision guidance right now one five five millimeter fire you plug in the coordinates of the target boom yeah I know what GPS was but it was like uh is it some kind like I was more thinking on the Heat or other level like how the shells yeah um well GPS also stands for Gunner's primary site there's so many different ways either but uh so the guy was here well this is the the Russian tanker's fault because he'd stayed still long enough that somebody with a drone could work up a grid send it to the guys with the artillery they could plug the grid into the computer and then fire it around so that's not the self the the Russian problem that's uh again you say I will scrolling to a communist Soviet I I we opened up uh I was I was reading of something about Belgrade recently said oh Yugoslavia no wait no can't say that no um gray hair I'm doing this one and uh I would say well it's impossible you can't blame the guy for staying still long enough to fire a GPS round because how long does that take 10 minutes I I assume it kills way faster it can't get away faster if you've got a drone that gives you a GPS location by just pointing to her Target yeah yeah and you radio that in that you know it'll be shot if Flash the bank will be like five minutes because if you fly a drone there you already know basically where you are yeah but but for GPS it's got to be exact yeah okay so that exactly yeah but regardless let's say it's 10 minutes let's say the GPS the Drone guys are slowing US 10 minutes that's basic maintenance and attack exactly if I gave you the manual for maintenance this has to be done every day and you start and you got to get out of the tank and you you start doing this you're going to be still for that amount of time uh or and crewmen need to sleep they need to eat yeah they need to to go relieve themselves in a slit trench because you're digging your sit trench and you're doing your business and whatever that all takes time so the idea that you can always have Security in Mobility is it going to work yeah the security is in not being spotted in the first place and that means digging that means camouflage and then of course if you move into the camouflage position that doesn't help you necessarily if the Drone is already seeing you correct so that was not butch brings us back to the earlier question we had in another a couple of videos ago you know do you have thermal imagers scanning disguise uh we used to have an air guard it was called so in a tank platoon there'll be four yeah did we finish the M1 M60 question I think we did so as you're driving around in the days when we were expecting Russian Jets or helicopters whatever there would always be one tank which designated the air guard tank so while the Gunner was scamming for Targets on the ground the two guys in the turret they were looking up they were looking to say oh there's a helicopter guys helicopter two o'clock that sort of thing we've gotten away from that because the U.S Air Force has been so good at making sure nothing is flying anywhere near us that we haven't had a need to but now with drones you've got to keep an eye out and if that's done with a thermal imager or if it's just done with a pair of binoculars whatever we need to get back to doing air guards a funny thing I think the Germans in the second but also had that few people designated in each platoon or a company for luftwines I think they were also there to to scan and hear for for any airplanes or something so yeah that's rather similar but yeah um we entered the original question another diversion did the seven other topics and then we see maybe we're making an outtake for the other one so thank you very much thank you for watching and see you next time bye

Channel: Military History not Visualized

Views: 130,934

Keywords: Military History not Visualized, Military History, mhv

Id: zK6suAebD-M

Length: 17min 57sec (1077 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 10 2023