Surrender To What IS (w/Suzanne Chang)

hey everyone welcome back um this episode with Suzanne Chang her YouTube channel is Suzanne non-duality hyphenated and her website is suzannechang.net c-h-a-n-g dot net um is it this is an unusual episode and the reason is here's the backstory and the introductions why you would want or not want to listen or watch this particular episode Suzanne teaches yeah she doesn't teach she points to her own experience in The Awakening realization Journey that she's been on where she's actually going through the dissolution of the sense of a separate self the uh this idea and it is just an idea that we are actually a separate individual moving through space and time that's separate from everything that is and it can actually be realized it's not intellectual it's not knowledge in that way it's it's knowing it's experiential that there is no separation from all of this there's just this happening perfectly right now and in a sense that's what Awakening is it's the shift in the understanding the Deep knowing that you were never separate there was never a separate being there was never an ego that it was just all appearance and what is here then becomes in a way infinitely significant so if that what I just said totally makes you scratch your head and say I'm out then just absolutely don't listen to or watch this episode however if this is something that's interested you or trigger something and you where your intuition kind of tingles a bit and goes wait yeah I've had experiences like that where the self kind of drops away or where I feel like there's something some deeper truth than this kind of Matrix that we're living in well this may be really interesting to you and it's along the lines of our other content on awakening if you want an introduction into what the Awakening might be or what this is you can definitely watch our series with Dr Angelo delullo uh The Awakening Explain series you can't really explain Awakening but again using words it's the best we can do but this so this is the story Suzanne came to visit us here in the Bay Area uh for a week and she has her own channel where she really talks about her experience in the moment as things are kind of unfolding for her and it's really amazing and you should absolutely check it out and for people that that resonates with who are in this part of the journey um it's such a tremendously helpful and validating experience to watch her and that's how I felt when I first discovered her through YouTube's algorithm which fed me one of her videos then my friend Angelo delullo interviewed her and he said hey she is absolutely energetically right there she should come visit you and I invited her and she came and she spent a week with us and with me my wife and my kids hang out here living at in the studio here and we were planning to make all kinds of videos and do all kinds of things and none of that really happened because what ended up happening was really remarkable for the story about that you should check out the video I did with Angelo it's on my channel and on his channel called from head to Heart Awakening as a couple because during her visit my wife had a massive shift she's been on no spiritual path no Journey none of that and the kind of transformation that happened with both her and I was really almost impossible to talk about but we tried to talk about it with Angelo and that video seemed to resonate with a lot of people and for a lot of people they they just said I don't even understand what this is like I'm 30 minutes into the video and I can't even understand what you're saying and that's absolutely normal and okay and if that's the case put it aside maybe at some point it will trigger something and speak to you but for people that it does connect with ah you're in for a ride so this video we just we it was day six now so she's been here for pretty much the week and my wife has had this huge shift the day prior and we just sat down here in the studio and I just hit record on the camera we weren't even planning anything we just had a conversation and it was about an hour and 40 minutes with her and then in the middle of it my wife who was in the other room just kind of chilling and meditating in this kind of post-awakening bliss came in the room and I had her sit in and she had a conversation with Suzanne and I talked with her as well now that piece I edited out of this particular version and the reason I did that is that's a piece that's so intimate and so kind of raw and and authentic that I think for the general public for which maybe this doesn't all resonate I don't think it's going to be helpful and it's just that intimate but and my wife doesn't really care to be on camera she doesn't care to be known in any way you know she has a full career as a radiologist and doesn't want any of that but she also didn't mind if I wanted to put it out but I felt like you know that version with her in it is available for people who are deep into this stuff and those are my sort of supporter groups so people who subscribe uh to my it's like patreon like on locals Facebook YouTube those guys can see the full version now if you want to see the full version with her shoot me an email and tell me why what in this that speaks to you and if it's clear that it speaks to you then I'll send you the link the unlisted link on YouTube for you to check out um so the other caveat about this video is there's a lot of it it's less of a conversation and more of a dual transmission which means there's a lot of Silence and so if you're listening on the podcast you may just be like oh did the did the podcast end because they're they're just silence no that's the conversation that's how it's communicated the silence actually is louder it tells you more than a lot of times what's said and also we just launch right into it so we're kind of like joking around being jerks to each other in the beginning so just let that go all right we're just being ourselves after knowing each other for a week it felt like we'd the three of us had known each other for lifetimes that's how it felt um so it was really beautiful so I'm sorry for the long introduction but I feel like this needed some kind of framing you can just skip through this obviously uh and so now without any further Ado and definitely check out Suzanne's stuff and I'll put links in the description email me hello zdogmd.com if you want the version that has my wife in it um and without further Ado here is myself and Suzanne Chang in our discussion on non-duality the fact that the universe is not two it's not subject and object it's just this here we go are you an [ __ ] like deep down what do you feel into it Miss princess ESP tell me you're an [ __ ] 150 I don't do anything half-assed including being an [ __ ] I'm either all in or not in at all I think just makes me giggle um oh interesting okay I'm a little in your shot there we go you are no no I'm good I will see check it out see my ball head oh yeah yeah it's just kind of creepy like if I just what a dream I'm very creepy I thought I thought this place was double or triple the size on YouTube so I interpret that as this is smoking mirrors when I sit here I see what a complete [ __ ] you are and how false everything is that's how the mind is hearing that just so you know oh that's how you're interpreting it I thought you just call me a [ __ ] oh no way dude it's calling me a [ __ ] it's like that's kind of refreshing no one has ever told me that before thank you for being so honest I [ __ ] hate you the flat the flat affect the way you're delivering that that's not a non-dual stare that's just being a [ __ ] see that I don't know if you guys can see that but right there that's a I mean Snoop Dogg used to say [ __ ] and I think that he had it right thirty percent of the time I can't even keep my eyes open because you bore me to death I would just be mean to each other hi Suzanne you know when I see you yeah you're like wow this guy is like so cool and then I met you and I was like ah he's like a little teddy bear [Applause] I like this more oh okay that's okay then I was about to I'm I I'm really sad [ __ ] no I love this this is like the most authentic interview yeah don't interview me no interviews conversation we're talking um so you yeah you've been here a few days and we've just been being what do you think of California well having really seen California because I've kept you in a dungeon tied up yeah I'm not allowed to leave yeah that was the rules when you came I said it puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the cane again it's actually the whip again I forget what it was no it's been beautiful yeah yeah yeah your house is in a beautiful area I didn't need to go anywhere yeah I have to say like having you here has been seamless it's like you or we're always here my whole family yeah it doesn't seem like there was actual time I don't even know it didn't feel like I came or it doesn't seem different in a way you know because your whole life like that now would you say yeah yeah I go home I see my family but it's not really different like there's a niceness and it doesn't feel like I mentally try to dissect things but like literally nothing's happening nothing's changing there are no different environments or different people or and yet the body can still prefer actually I just want quiet for like a day I just don't want to be around people for a day like even that thought and intuitively you can do that but still there's no difference that's really hard for the mind to grasp it can't grasp that but that is exactly the experience of of reality it's just seen that there is no distinction there's no separation and there's no separate little person in your head that's experiencing separation or any of these different locations is just the radiance of this but like you said it still can this activity of B whatever this is this neuronal storm of activity here can still have preferences can still show the human range of expression and emotion yeah and that's what I you know I've watched your videos quite a bit and you're so authentic it's so clear that you're pointing from Clear truth and you're speaking from that place and when I met you in person that was there but also what was there was Suzanne Chang the human being yeah yeah and both showed up simultaneously yeah because I think some people feel like well if I actually go too far down the realization path something is so distorted it's so lost it's so alien it's so inhuman how can you walk around not having an internal dialogue or an internal sense of self and still function and yet here it is um yeah I must say that it is there is no world but it is a totally different world I was going to say there it's a different experience but experience seems like it is something that's happening so like I can't really I can't believe anything anything that the mind says it's just it's it's like a bird tweeting and it's not serious the meaning in it is not there but again it's not I don't think about that I don't think like for somehow meaning is used but really it's coming from nothing like it is nothing it doesn't really have that definitive meaning so nothing is important nothing matters nothing is serious nothing is happening to me all of that is meaning all of that is like this is actually what's happening so when all of that can be used but none of it is real where's the struggle where's the resistance where's the pushing and pulling where's the separation but it still shows up as life yeah because you can see like sometimes I get angry at people I don't like people but I don't take it seriously but I will express it as if it's real yes and I it's my favorite aspect of your human personality that shows up [Music] it's great yeah but yeah there's no holding back and there's no holding on yeah there's no yeah I express it and then it's gone it's gone you know um I'm just making sure our cards are recording that would be embarrassing um but also perfect yeah fail hashtag fail that's how my kids my kids walk around you've seen this talking and my oldest daughter is so strong you saw my butt yeah it's your younger one too yeah she's she's wiry strong like that kind of kind of deceptive strength that comes from like just having all ligament like attached to like muscle that's very small but it it has the leverage that could just cut just I believe it cut you yeah I forget what we were talking about um oh no yeah it doesn't matter I love your two daughters the dynamic is like beautiful they were asking today where's Suzanne yeah oh yeah you're like Eve you're like an empty human who showed up and just filled the entire space if that makes sense and it was seamless yeah I didn't even interact with them much but like I was drawn to them and they and they to you and in fact I could tell that my oldest especially was kind of was turned she her personality was kind of turned on a bit to kind of show you who she is like that's really sweet I like to be seen by this person who's looking like clearly looking like uh and um I made eye contact with your younger one a couple times yesterday I don't know did she burst into tears like when I make eye contact no she's just I'm intrigued by her hmm yeah it's weird normally they would ask all these questions who is this person you and Mom are hanging out with and instead it was just where's Suzanne yeah so just so people kind of understand like we don't know each other yeah yeah it's really weird we but it's not weird it's not weird at all like I I'd seen your videos and I really resonated with how direct you are but I also knew like that particular style of directness is coming from a place that is clear to me but for many it can seem a little obscure or or a little a little mysterious because you can't grasp it with the intellect and the conceptual mind won't really make sense of what you're saying it can to a degree but then it's it stops so I saw your videos and thought this I the first time I saw you I was like who is this like I've never the algorithm just fed me the video and I was just what my jaw dropped at how direct and clear how true what you were saying felt at wherever I was in my unfolding I was like that is so spot on and my wife wasn't even on any spiritual journey at all just barely tolerated mine was saw it and goes now that's something I can kind of feel like how she's saying that that kind of makes sense and I was like what and so then Angelo interviewed you our mutual friend and he voice messages me and his and just says dude Suzanne needs to come to visit you and you just need to do that and whether it's videos or whatever and I was like I trust Angelo and I trust my intuition looking at the video so I we were like would you come and you were like Yeah well yeah and I was like what and that was how we actually met and now it's been a week in and you're like it's like when did we meet yeah yeah seamless seamless and in so many ways I'm in love with your wife and I'm going to run away with her you know what if you do that just get video if anything you do because then at least I'll have something you know I'll have something but that there is a there's a seamless there's a seamlessness when someone shows up in the world like you do and then maybe someone shows up in the world like I do like very open to that yeah you're so open so it kind of it's funny because then my wife who's already quite open is so open just blew open yeah yeah with all of us together and it keeps unfolding and I won't say much about that this time maybe except to say like my wife was never on a spiritual path but now she's basically my zen master like overnight yeah there's that kind of a shift and it's been so beautiful and the authenticity that's open up even between us has been so beautiful that and yet there's no there's a sense that nobody's doing it there's nothing to hold or grasp there's immense gratitude but there's yeah there's not there's nothing to make of it it's just perfect just as it is that's and for me just interacting with you has been like it's dropped a lot of the seeking energy that I had where I was making this thing a thing like you got to do these things and then you get the prize whatever that is and instead it's like you know the things just happen these are just going on and the prize is always already this and it's not a prize and there's no one to claim it it's really hard to talk about but it's right here it's been amazing like seeing you and your wife transform and go through just everything you needed to go through and really you never really left anywhere you were never really gaining or losing anything but where you guys are now it's like it was phenomenal for me to watch and you both like you guys did the hard work and well there's just beautiful this there's really nothing to say like except because we're on video I guess and this is my thing that I try to share with people like like I'll say um there's a lot of people who are maybe seeking like they know there's something not right with how things are in the regular conceptual world of how we how we live in society and all that and they start seeking because they read a book or they see Eckhart totally speak or they they have some peek into it like some mystical experience happens or they do a psychedelic and they're like oh there's something deeper here and intuition tells me to start exploring and then maybe they have a partner or family or others that they're very attached to and that are attached to them and this sudden kind of this this unfolding of the seeking path can feel threatening not just to the spouse or the partner but to the person who's seeking because it feels like everything is at stake and if I wake up or become realized or lose my sense of self what's going to happen to that that relationship that my children and it's a real it's a real fixation that forms in the mind that actually continues to make real the sense that there's someone who has something at stake that can lose it and as long as that's reverberating in in awareness the the surrender into this empty radiant perfection can't happen fully or partially or at all and so what's happened here and I can only speak from my own experience as you come you point with me things start to open and die in me like these fixations of self and then the spouse the family Etc are there because you're there in our house we're hanging out we're having dinner and they're seeing this initially perplexed this interaction like what is this are they from Mars they're staring at each other and saying words that make no sense and yet it's having some clear effect on the energetics of the room even and then all the repressed things that we're conditioning ourselves not to deal with start to the repression mechanism starts to loosen and the next thing you know things are exploding and including the I the fears that this path is going to cause loss this path is going to obliterate the stability of the whole thing and when that happens underneath is pure authenticity and it feels so terrible when you're going through yeah that release so like a death like you've been murdered yeah yeah but on the other side of that is something that you can't even talk about because it's so just this and yet from the standpoint of the previous mind seeing it it would go oh my God it's like you guys went through like a thousand years of marriage counseling and then did a bunch of ecstasy together or something and now look at you you're perfectly authentically connected and honest and so I guess what I'm saying with all this is you can trust this hmm oh that's beautiful yeah yeah I think once you die you know that there's nothing to fear so that just becomes obvious and when you're in the energy of that like when there's nothing to fear you could go anywhere and for me like I knew nothing was going to go wrong it might it might feel explosive and it might feel like this is the worst thing that could ever happen you could go through and feel the worst feelings ever that maybe you've been avoiding for years but that's where the freedom is like underneath that you become untouched not as a thing you just become everything yep that's right and fears can still arise they don't mean anything anymore what you're pointing at is the central [Music] radical but totally simple message which is the sense that we are a self that has everything to lose and everything to gain is the central obstruction to being living authentically in perfect connection with all these things whatever that looks like and it could look like something that looks like conflict but there's nobody in there that owns that and you said something to us when we were talking and it landed because it said he said so whatever you share with each other whatever emotion or whatever story has been going on each of you can handle that hmm and that's a way of saying there's no you that has to bear this burden there's just the experience of the emotion and so be authentic be honest yeah yeah and that leads to an opening it's an and it's not a conceptual opening it's not like going to therapy and which is all fine going to therapy and moving around deck chairs and saying okay I'm gonna reframe my experience this way I'm going to reframe this and okay it wasn't so bad that he or she did this so I'm going to forgive them in this way it's not that it's dropping a nuclear bomb in the center of the one who could care about that and then instead being radically open and allowing yourself to feel what you typically would have said is unbearable discomfort knowing that it can be born because there's nobody that needs to Bear it and then just yeah yeah did you say radically open I might have it's really nice are you going to steal it and patent it for a bumper sticker no it's just really nice [Music] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I don't think I like I don't know why I said what I said but I think observing you guys and seeing like damn these people are really genuine I don't even know what that means really but like you know you just have a sense like they're really open and I think deep down both of them really want to connect and just a limited amount of interaction I had with your wife at the time she was so open and I was shocked and I could sense that she just needed to be a little honest and she would just be blown open and you had that sense too I mean you told that you said that to me the first time we zoomed I think she was primed for this I mean I don't even want to call it Awakening you know like we don't have to label anything that word doesn't even make sense it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense but what you're pointing at is exactly it like sometimes it's what we're holding that bit of resistance to life that we've been holding maybe for a decade or more that keeps us driving with the brakes on like it's that feeling of just it has a signature and it shows up in life as I need to protect this core whatever it is and I can't open or everything will fall apart so when the opening happens when that it's realized that this has to come through and the energy that comes out is so can be so Fierce and terrifying yeah that it's a it's physically felt it's not conceptual no stories pop up but it's like 10 000 gigawatts you know coursing through your body and you feel like you're dying and a piece of you is yeah the piece that owned that story the piece that was holding it is it is electrocuted it's just burnt to a crisp and what's left then after the recovery of that is indescribable openness like often authentic I mean all these words don't make sense chest and so yeah so now she is my teacher she's always been my teacher but now it's like she's speaking like a zen master and she's never read a word of this stuff and all it all it really was was that little restraining bolt of this holding and me too yeah so I was holding story and that started to open in release and was very painful because you don't want to go in those places no you can't by choice go there so that that holding place is you it's not that you are holding it that is you which you don't really exist but that's everything yeah yeah when that's there that's everything yeah and your perception is coming from there so it's in a way limited it feels separate it feels in relation to everything it's living on top of fear I love how you say that you've said that in different ways to me during the week you're living on top off this mass of repression doubt anger denial identities stories you're living on top of it and actually you're seeing through it as a lens you can't see it because you're seeing as it so the world looks a certain way the world looks like this I can't be honest with my partner because it'll be the death of me him the family everything we've built yes yeah yes and whereas the truth is without being honest you're living in a kind of dream state that feels you know it you know it's there and you know it especially when it is not there because suddenly you're like and you may have those glimpses so this for anyone out there who is resonating with this you may have glimpses in your relationship with whoever your mother your father your kid your brother your spouse partner yourself all those are relationships so you may have had experiences where those open and you know what it's like to be completely honest and vulnerable and that Glimpse it's just like any spiritual experience the Glimpse is enough to let you know at a cellular level that the regular state that I'm living in is wrong it's a lie it's a Dream It's a fabrication and then and and once you know that then then you can deeply know too you can start to trust that anything that happens that might unwind the dream is ultimately going to be okay better than okay yeah of course it's going to be terrifying that's all that's known so to go into the unknown of course it can't be willingly done but when it's just the unknown Freedom isn't even needed peace isn't even needed that's all there is and you see you never had to fear anything it's so radical to the human mind that this kind of peace is the natural state of everything and everything we do to try to manufacture it let's go on a vacation let's drink some alcohol yeah let's stay present which is okay it's it's okay yeah because the other option which is the total Destruction of your reality that is quite phenomenal it's you it is kind of the loss of everything because you are that and to go beyond that where there's just Infinity it's not a simple thing it's not an easy thing so all these ways of seeking all these ways of finding momentary happiness and fulfillment staying present doing practices they're all safety ground safety nets a little bit like everything else getting the job more money partner it's all okay there's nothing wrong with it that is already this but experientially there will always be a not enoughness it will never ever satisfy so the only answer there is no real answer but the only way out of that is a complete destruction of it that message is so true so scary to the mind that thinks it is that it is the suffering or it is the pain and it's so but it's so true it I want to go back to what you said about presence because this is all fine and it's fine and good I've talked about it it's decide yeah you and it was my Gateway into this me too yeah yeah so it was for you too yeah being present resting as awareness whatever that is which we can talk about but the like the Eckhart Tolle totally Gateway which is oh instead of being lost in thought all the time I can focus on being here there's still an eye focusing on being here but at least I'm here and there is relief yeah but it takes a lot of work because the eye is still expending energy because it's still energy identifying as this so that's fine and what you actually helped me really deeply realize deeply realize I always kind of knew and I'm increasingly knowing it but you really just by talking with you and you're not teaching anything you're just talk you're we're just having a conversation yeah it's normal just your expression from there was that even that is identity so die like allow your identity to loosen and dissolve you can't do it it's almost just a willingness and even that is a stretch but when it's known that you can trust what's on the other side even though you don't know you can't know what it is because there's no you there but you see me and I'm functional oh this is actually the secret sauce you have Suzanne Chang I'm just realizing clearly now when I met you even by Zoom the first time and when you came here and when I see you when I interact with you it's just energetically known like it's just on an energy level like oh my God this person is just radically who they are and it's wonderful and on a personal level you're funny normal authentic don't give a crap take a crap on anyone if you want and then it's gone and you're fun to hang around with so I'm also considerate you missed that apartment yeah I forgot that humble humble's another thing you remember the list of good stuff I told you to say about but I told you it cost you more than you paid me the the the the the knowing from the conversation that we have that you are actually there's not a self in there and the radical kind of path that you took where that happened going through and reprocessing like just living through the trauma and the emotion and everything feeling all of it dying over the past year and you've all your videos point to your journey your videos are your journey like it's like a time capsule of Suzanne Chang's realization of no self no problem just this it's all there on your channel I don't even want to rehash it because I want people to see it from you but knowing that then interacting with you caused this pattern of zubining to completely surrender because it would knew it was going to be just fine like it because there's Terror there's fear even in Stillness when you meditate you can run up against this void where the self isn't and the self can recoil the so-called self the pattern of energy that's calling itself self can recoil in fear and then you meet Suzanne and you go oh this person's on the other side of this invisible wall that you think you should never cross and it just causes a okay I give up nice so that's I think also what your videos do that's a draw for people to go oh I've been in this kind of thing I've done the spiritual journey I've gone to all the meditation Retreats I've fought these battles and the seeking and all of that and I'm just exhausted and then here's you know you know yeah I mean I think I could sense with you too that you were ready so I was not intentionally but I think what was coming across just because I could sense the Readiness was a stripping away of all the little bitty elements of Hope that was still latching on to it was very very refined um yes no more holding on to those even those little things there's nothing in it and the fear of loss the loss of family loss of relationship is just enough to keep your identity there to cling to it like a like a boat and of course it's like it's a beautiful thing actually for the identity in the person um and it's not that you actually lose it lose it you just realize you never had it and sometimes it might feel like you've lost it and I was lucky enough to see you like go through that in a way and it just happened so rapidly um [Music] and throughout all of those so-called phases where you really felt like it was gone I wasn't worried for you I I wanted you to express I wanted you to feel through everything you were feeling all the stories that were popping up and for your wife too they were not a problem there's nothing to fear in that that can freely be here full on with the rage that's not a problem If people really understood that how the way you pointed to me that and I finally knew it I knew it instinctually after that I could sense and then it just opens then you're like okay Into the Fire everything we've been scared of whatever here it is yeah and on the other side of that is just Indescribable joy and acceptance and no matter what like it could have been oh you know on the other side of that it's pretty clear there's no relationship we're done you know going to live in a monastery whatever it is and that that you have to know going into that that if that were a possibility that's okay too because none of this is it it's exactly that kind of surrender yeah you have to be willing to lose everything your whole life willing to die in that sense now this is a radical this is like a heavy duty message for someone just starting out meditating yeah oh totally so for those folks and I'll put an intro on this where I kind of explained it but this is for the people who are like damn dude I've been doing this for years or months or and still suffering and I'm still feel like a self and I I have had Awakening I haven't had Awakening whatever that means and that's great because when you're too mind identified and that is the only solid reality this will be misinterpreted this will become um something to immensely fear and and and push away yes or it will become a thing to do a practice a way to get to this and some irresponsible things might happen so yeah this is for someone relatively seasoned it doesn't mean you have to be on a spiritual path you're right my wife was not yeah but you can see she's pretty primed yeah she's just her life has been her spiritual path yeah yeah she's just authentic she's just that's just how she is you know at the minute you met her yeah yeah yes so in that situation because like what you're saying if if the Mind tries to grab what we're saying and make a thing out of it that's disastrous or it's just it just won't work it's just there's nothing to do here that's what it's more a realization it's a realization that in the end here there is nothing at stake in the way you think it's at stake and that and what that means is oh yeah but what do you mean Zubin like the in the world there's lots at stake like I have these things I don't want to lose them that's fine there's nothing really at stake under all of that when you touch into what that is there's nothing at stake which means it's time to dive into all the things that you know are there that you were afraid because there's something to lose so now there's nothing to lose because there was nothing ever there and when that and that sounds to the mind that sounds like nihilism it sounds like that's a void like I want to avoid that that's not what it is the mind can't know what this is thank God because if it did it just wouldn't even what would it even do be like oh it can't know yeah it's a realization you be even saying that you become it doesn't make any sense yeah it's very hard to talk about yeah you don't you don't neglect or detach from anything actually you fully embody or go through the deepest fears and traumas and um it's fully processed and digested and it's it can be painful as hell but it's fully possible like everyone's completely capable yes it's almost your Birthright to be able to do this and you personally have only really in the last year and a bit gone through this and you show up here and it's just radiant emptiness like so for you it's been facing the darkest stuff in your entire life yeah that I thought I had resolved um how did you think you'd resolved it through other means um yeah I thought I had brought it to the light I learned things you know be with it accept it there's nothing to be ashamed of hearing other people's stories worse than mine and seeing how they've resolved it and and feeling like it's it doesn't Define me what happened doesn't Define me um but as long as the identity is there the story is still there it's not a wrong thing but that's just kind of how it is it seems who knows maybe you could go to therapy for 20 years maybe it will dissolve but it felt like the Deep vulnerabilities and insecurities were just ingrained in ways that you can't dissect that mentally it's energetic it's completely intertwined with the whole dream the tentacles seemed like they were everywhere and when I felt like I was dying all of the all of them kind of emerged and I was like what the [ __ ] I didn't do anything like that was kind of how it felt because it was so full on but maybe now looking back it's not like I didn't resolve anything I think it just needed to come up to say goodbye like and it felt more raw and intimate and just that so sometimes the story felt more real than ever because that's all there was there was no separation there was no it's odd to say because the story is Duality but it felt like there was nothing but the story at times so when I hated someone it was just pure hate and it's not like I acted from it there was enough being on the spiritual path or enough refinement in whatever way not that you need to be on a spiritual path but there was enough somehow maturity or I don't know what it is but I knew that this would pass in a way well there when it's there it's really full-on so sometimes that's all that's there and time disappears um I know exactly what you're pointing at mm-hmm and maybe sometimes action just needs to happen sometimes that did happen but a lot of the time the anger wasn't seen as a problem the hatred wasn't seen as a problem it was like actually the identity can't go there sometimes it's just way too horrific how how can I hate my parents that fully and it's not like my parents did anything particularly wrong it's just that it's normal that that might be there if there is a separate sense of self that felt hurt in that way it's kind of normal and you don't have to be ashamed of it it's it's like I think if I'm feeling into my own experience too you can kind of do the conceptual groundwork and you can do the kind of the therapeutic stuff and even the bringing these experiences and allowing them to arise and sitting with them in presence but there's still an identity sitting with them in presence which means there's still a perception that there's something here that can be heard or injured and that disallows the full expression of because listen you know this and you've you've expressed it even here the raw energy of hate of Anger of resentment of fear of grief of sadness of loss when it's felt without resistance it is the most powerful force in the universe because it is the entire universe and if there's even a Vestige of holding on to a self that could die that self is going to resist because this is too much but when you let that you trust and that self just it just dissolves and then it's just ah it's so pure energy Pure Energy you said it was energetic and people like what does that mean it's energy like it feels like contractions in the body like you'll be sore afterwards um but that allowing opens up this pattern of energy that we are and the next thing is more openness and then the next thing comes um and it's held a little even a little more lightly like it's it's just it's so beautiful Suzanne like I just want everyone to know like this is okay especially if you're this stage but if you're not and you're hearing this and it clicks something in you yeah yeah yeah you don't have to fear emotions and when the mind is a bit stronger and it's more fully your only reality than emotions have a lot more meaning they have a lot more good and bad I want this I don't want this and that's okay but when the mind kind of isn't The prominent thing as much I don't know how else to say that yeah it's less Center Stage it's less yeah then it's just mainly it's energy and the stories can still arise the preferences can still arise but how do you differentiate energy how do you put a boundary to energy and say distinctly I know what this is I know how to control it and manipulate it and I know what to do about it that it just doesn't make sense anymore it's like holding you know trying to hold back the Sun from shining or something like you you can't stop it it you can try and you're just gonna create these weird artifacts it is it is like that but when but see these these energies and that's a thing we make these personal energies in our mind this is my anger this is my rage this is my shame when they're experienced as energy they're everything there's no my or your or theirs it's just this is the universe it's just shame and you feel it so and you know what you said about the stories can arise and when this came here and you know these feelings were coming through maybe it's grief thoughts still show up and they say things like oh they're telling stories about the loss or about the guilt or whatever it is but there's a deeper knowing when you just allow that guilt to be everything that even when the thoughts there it's just guilt happening and the thought is there there's nobody owning this guilt and there's nothing to be afraid of even though fear may be there that's okay and then it just it's allowed and when it's really allowed it's like taking um a resistor out of a circuit now the the current can flow which means shit's gonna get hot it's going to feel really intense like you're dying I think over the past week I must have died several times yeah yeah and I'm still dying I was just walking out in nature with my wife today and I just doubled over like the amount of energy that suddenly oh I was walking like this we were just in you know my wife of course is completely blissed out like walking around just noticing things for the first time as they are yeah and I sat to stop and suddenly I was like curled up standing and just sobbing and what was amazing is it felt like the entire universe wow grief or sadness it wasn't mine there was no story it was just grief and sadness and it and it was beautiful in a way there was like a underlying gratitude that this is that humans can feel this this intensely and then as soon you know maybe give it 20 seconds it was gone like I look up my wife just had her hand on my back and she just intuited like none of this human like Oh Come here no it's okay none of that just and then it's gone and I was like wow that was a thing and we continue to walk beautiful like a rain shower passes by and there's just just little residual water and then it's just evaporated and it's gone yeah yeah that's beautiful I just I I'm so I have so much gratitude that you came out here and that you do what you do I don't do anything thank you exactly no you've been amazing I've been really Blown Away by you as well I've been I've been trying to like verbalize you know all these like Zoom is great because but like I don't know words don't really do don't worry I have a list of things you can just check the boxes that seem to apply and how much did you enjoy your stay on a scale of one to seven how much would you recommend this to other non-selves on a on a scale of one to ten how empty are you after this experience I was just thinking today um I mean I told you before like I came here probably because of personal elements I'm not sure probably a little bit and I also emptied out more um yes beautiful it's it's just like okay so people who don't believe in synchronicity or How the Universe just is as it is like here's a great example um like I made Angela two years ago it really accelerates my path other people get connected through the videos the next thing you know I randomly because I watch Angela's videos or I watch videos on non-duality yours show up in my feed I mentioned you to Angelo he's like yeah I've noticed her she's really amazing like hopefully I can get an interview with her you get she gets the interview then he's like you need to come you guys need to be together do videos whatever it doesn't matter yeah I was blown away me too these sweet guys they're so sweet and that you when you agreed to do it I was like I'm not worthy of this like there was all this like uh and and actually when you first came I was kind of bending over backward trying to make sure that you had an experience that made it worth you coming here it was actually like okay so if you want to go to San Francisco we can go to San Francisco and then of course there's all these restaurants and this is a and you're just like this no you know it's fine they were there were personal elements here that was like oh my God this guy is amazing I should just stay here forever I'll be pampered forever oh it's so funny the personality just feels like oh man but it's and you would and you will and you can be but there is even it became clear that that wasn't the nature of this that was an element like it was lovely it's so lovely on it just a human level that's wonderful but then there's this and then and then even that's a teacher because I was like Suzanne this and Suzanne that and Suzanne this and Suzanne that and my wife pointed out she's like you know anything can become an attachment um I was like wow like I feel like well if Suzanne leaves I'll go back to sleep you know like this little bit of not true not not it is not true you're right this little bit of grasping a little bit of attachment a little bit of that and now you can see it in finer and finer grain um and I just love I love how your unfolding happened that you found this person that's halfway across the world and you just share everything authentically directly you do all that work together but apart and there's not selves there doing it yeah yeah and without going through that I wouldn't have been able to speak to you and your wife the way that I did because I mean you know I have very little personal experience and relationships hey lady hey lady what's up come here come here come here come here sit right here that was wonderful that was that was so sweet so amazing yeah and completely unplanned and just absolutely what you know when she was talking about seeing her hands for the first time I was sitting there just going oh my God I could kind of see I was overwhelmed because that is like so beautiful oh my God so true to what this is like yeah yeah and this is someone who is never meditated thought I might be crazy was skeptical was skeptical of the whole thing and felt when we were talking to she felt you know what are we escaping with this like what's wrong with this life it's fine and then she sees from this and goes hand like there's nothing to do um just it's crazy it's crazy that's why that's why in a way everything we've said can go out the window toss it all yeah absolutely when we were walking today it was like hey there's nothing to say like all these words are meaningless they might point you there's like a finger pointing here and there but in the end you don't say anything just it's just this yeah in the and then when there's no constructs at all how can you say anything it's like it's like effortful yes you know sometimes when you're pointing with me uh I'll get into that state of just effortless this and it'll feel Eternal and then I'll hear a voice that'll say so how's it there like yeah and it's almost like you can feel the layers of automatic Minds start to just kind of form in and build a little ladder and then the thoughts start to form again and they say oh you should come up like what's your answer for this because there's nothing to say and then usually I say something like there's nothing to say or it's all energy or some platitude that makes no sense but it feels right from there and it's kind of like that's how so much of this is like this it sounds cliche because words can't conceptually trans transmit it but from it it all just makes sense and there's nothing to say yeah yeah yeah but when the mouth moves it comes out like everything is love or something like that it makes no sense at all yeah so the one thing I wanted to kind of touch back on that we were talking about was this idea of everything is consciousness presence that is a [Laughter] H I love you so much Suzanne Chang you're my favorite person in this room right now because Margaret left fair enough no that that that is a realization that kind of eye roll is a realization that even the fixation with consciousness ultimately Must Die because in this where is consciousness what is conscious what is consciousness how can you name anything there's you believe it to be true you might as well just call it the force at that point and it's just a silly sounding because it's like oh Consciousness you mean the force it's this all pervasive field that just knows everything that's stupid like from here it just feels like no there's just everything there's no knower there's no knowing substance there's no substance that is everything there's no everything there's just um yeah because I mean as as long as there's a knowing that this is consciousness there's still the whole person the whole identity which is fine it could be a more expansive sense of self that doesn't know it's there it's really hard to know if it's there but when it's gone it's obvious like oh [ __ ] something disappeared because now there's just nothing and you can't put a word to this you can't describe it at all impossible and frankly ridiculous to put a name to it but it's just like absurd like holy [ __ ] yeah everything's made up yeah and you can know reality as that whatever that is there's an even reality in that sense it's just I don't know Angela use the term Living Truth I think that is the closest that I've heard it's just truth just this just this and it's alive in the sense that if there's just a it's an expression that's it just the expression it's so unbelievably full and I don't know if palpable is the right word and it's edgeless there's complete there's no boundary to it whatsoever where would you find a boundary where would that what what is that even yeah it's impossible even one sensation is every sensation everything everywhere all at once oscar-winning film gotta watch that yeah it's too much yeah it's just but we still can have fun and life this is what's the magic of this for me and I may still I have a lot of fixation and one of my fixations is I love the humanness of experience there's a warm mammalian glow to being a human and there's a kind of a gratitude for this human kind of thing as weird and monkey-like as we are there's something about it that is an attachment from for for this it just feels like that and that nothing that a radiant smile it's just a smile I see the universe sometimes I think this was adyashanti he said it's it's like be an empty smile is a reality and everything is just part and parcel of that that nothingness that's everythingness can express as this like you and me sitting here is a miracle Beyond Miracles it's all you need what else do you need do you need money well you know I Gotta Eat This is a miracle um in a way you don't lose that there is maybe some shifts that happen hmm um everything I'm gonna say is gonna sound like a weird description or concept excellent but you become more fully this more fully human there's no blocks anymore there's no separation there's no in here out there you do see things in a I guess different way you're not relating to anything in a way I don't know what's happening but everything is naturally automatically allowed I'm not doing anything I'm not here no one is here in control separate from life so it's just fully everything and if that's not what could be desired from there the fullness of everything including the human aspects and things like that that's just interpretation of the unknown I don't know what this is how this is functioning what this is Just Happening and it's full nothing is repressed nothing is detached completely open free Unbound I just imagine me farting hey I don't have to imagine that for me okay it's just a constant occurrence let's see compared to usually we're eating too much crap yeah no not crab I think it's because I put half and half in my coffee oh a little lactose so yeah yeah for me it's garlic yeah like the pizza yesterday I was like I guess that pizza was good it was good though right Slice House Belmont slice that I was gonna take the last slice no part of me was like no it was for you no one no one wants that right it's it does claiming it it brings me so much joy to see you enjoy those kind of things because it's like oh I fully like the meal that your wife made oh it's my favorite so good it was so good I gotta tell her that because she she I was like she thanklessly cooks that [ __ ] for the family that's like okay exactly I want salmon hell of it's too dry it's like what that was my favorite oh that's awesome it was really good oh man okay this whole expression of everything is like it's Flawless yeah yeah it's just so good difference no distinction anywhere there's nothing and everything I love you how you just pointed to that it's just like it's just okay there's nobody doing this it's the funniest thing in the world like it's just yeah you can't talk you can't mine can't go there mine can't go into the center of the smile it just knows it's a smile that's all it knows it's just this is smiling void that's yeah exerting maximum it's just farting out the universe just a hundred percent just one methane Cloud that's all of this I'm gonna get out of here because you know that yeah the countdown's clicking for fart time yeah dude that's so it's so crazy how it all just yeah so I don't even know what we just did and it doesn't matter I mean I think my favorite part of this trip was just like really getting to know you like your story is phenomenal what you've been through is phenomenal um from here like my favorite thing is getting like your story is cool and crazy and almost insane and I love that aspect but compared to your story it is oh no it's pretty crazy it's pretty crazy but it's getting it's it's you that isn't really there it's the whole expression and how it shows up in human form and energetically that is just so compelling it's like a Vortex that you keep falling into and falling into and falling into that's how it feels yeah and um that may be a little attachment I have to this is so it just it's an it's an energetic phenomenon that's what that's what Angelo said when he interviewed you he's like just you just want to just be there with her because it's like that and I think people see that in the videos too it's you know the people that are sensitive to that because not every new not everyone's sensitive to that I think you can be very mind identified and just see this as boring [ __ ] that makes no sense and a nice person who just is talking some weird [ __ ] yeah at a cemetery in a cemetery saying she doesn't know anything like and then she spent the last year dying it's like it's like you're still there it's so it's so funny you read some of the comments and like do you need antidepressants do you know it's like the minute I saw that video that one that or that you did that went viral I was like oh she's right in the heart of reality expressing it as reality like this is such a beautiful expression and then I read the comments and I'm like these people don't see it at all they're seeing it from the mind of course the mind would see the way you're expressing in that moment that expression which is everything is lost and no one tells you how it's lost everything yeah you will lose every [ __ ] thing there'll be nothing you'll be able to hold nothing and the mind is just like the mind can't even feel that allow itself to feel that so it just feels bad for it it goes oh this poor thing like she's depressed well it can only project its own experience or what it knows from where it knows even if it didn't go through that that's all it mentally knows right and the construct of society is all mental yeah that's all we know so going beyond that where there is nothing and energetically you literally lose everything all the attachments it's really felt through and to look at my picture as a young kid and not be able to recognize that face that's a sad thing to go through like it's sad in the moment and then yeah it passes now it doesn't affect me but to go through that it is quite sad you're mourning yourself hmm so I'm mourning my parents all the trauma I've been through feeling like it was for nothing because I'm not gaining anything I'm actually just losing everything that's all there is and if you're not sad during that time I mean it's just understandable that you would be sad there would just be sadness um yeah and there was bargaining going on like ah can I go back and why is this happening yeah of course how could I prevented that much Trauma from happening could I have resolved it as a person could I yes um but now it's very clear like what a relief yeah wow biggest relief ever I would never ever go back and that's how you show up you show up as someone who's light it was just that is not sticking there's sure there's always going to be some little thing and in real time and catch and release kind of thing that's fine but the lightness of being is apparent and it's inspiring if you're you're cowering in fear from the process like you just go you know and I think some people saw that first video of that one that went viral and they were like oh my gosh that is scary then I don't want to not recognize myself but that's not that's not it that's why I kind of wanted to talk about it here because it's like that is such a special video because it points right at the part that you have to understand even that is perfect that's exactly how it has to be and it's it's not just okay it's the other side of that is yeah infinite lightness yeah yeah I think right before I posted that video there was something major that fell away hmm um oh you could feel it in the video not caring about what other people thought anymore hell yeah like that completely not that it can't come up now and again but it definitely has a different flavor but right before that video there was kind of this like total unattachment to anything and everything hmm and a pure expression just happened ah gorgeous yeah yeah and we're even talking about things that don't exist now because this is stuff that isn't happening now but it's still it can it can be such a a guide a guide post for the apparent selves that are seeking apparently seeking yeah from here everything seems apparent but I still have it you know in me there's a ton of fixation there's identity these things but it's it's feeling increasingly fluid it's increasingly like it can go from zero to a hundred to zero And the emotions just come and the resistance has gone down off the cliff and then seeing my wife and just being like what just the joy of that and then the little bit of jealousy arises oh my God she did that so easy I've been struggling for a decade and then the the humor like of course you are you're this is exactly the cosmic joke that's how it works it's perfect and then just being around her is waking me up more and more and more yeah it's just all seamless it's all Clockwork yeah you're not you're not far away from anything you're not really going anywhere there's just energetics seeming to play out and I could be wrong but I just think she's just gonna be able to be there as complete space for you to open up to any remnant things it doesn't say anything about you or her it doesn't matter anymore those things are irrelevant they don't make sense but I think now the the seeming Bond just to use words that you have now like that will be the thing that's that was needed for you in a way yeah it's beautiful and she said it yesterday too she knew she's the only one who could do that for you she said it so clearly and I knew I've always known it I've always known it like she's the path if there's a path yeah is that nuts it's nuts she just she says some powerful things it's like ridiculous she on the trail today when we were walking the kind of things that she was saying I was like this is a this is like something a Zen master would say like he's just like oh you know sitting down on a rock when you listen to a bird sing and there's no bird there's no singing there's just what that is that's something I was sitting on the Rock going yeah yeah wow that was well expressed wow yeah it's um I realized that my mechanic is probably calling oh okay uh let me just take a peek here so many voicemails you in trouble bro let's listen to it responsible perfect bye for now what if I just put this out unedited Justin gets like put his 10 million calls like are you an enlightened car mechanic because my car needs to be you know my the 10W-40 oil I put in my car is not very awake I was wondering if you have a formulation we gotta awaken these machines yeah you gotta awaken forget about humans foreign I just wanted to say you got to awaken these nuts because that oddly makes sense it doesn't make sense oh it doesn't make sense does it I don't know does anything make sense no so isn't that like equally sensible totally especially when it's spelled D apostrophe s nuts because it's kind of like there's a dude named D and he's got knots and they're Deez Nuts whereas Snoop might spell it d-e-e-z like you know these but it's not it's Deez Nuts and D is mad that that you're talking about is nuts or they're nuts these pronouns are they them [Music] [Laughter] I'm becoming D enlightened de-enlightened I worried actually it was funny I had a little mental thought that I could actually de-enlighten you by just being me just by being me no no no I think you doubt yourself I have a lot of Doubt yes so um you know it's okay if it comes up but like you can just ignore it is that right yeah so a doubt happens and I'm like there's doubt that is my final teaching to you thank you take it or leave it thank you Susan Chan I'm untouched so it doesn't matter to me we should have done this all with puppets the whole thing like two puppets staring at each other and just like it's all nothing and everything and empty and full and then the other pup was like duh that'd be funny it would be pretty funny did you ever see the video if I think it was Tony Parsons and he's just with another dude and they're they're pointing all seriously and then suddenly they just both lose their [ __ ] and start laughing and the whole video is like six minutes of them snort laughing really yeah it was kind of like they just saw like this is all a joke it's all a big joke and they're just like he was doing that [ __ ] I was like oh my God I don't know I don't know if it was Tony actually Angela has the video somewhere I'll have to have him send it to us it's really entertaining because they're they're all serious they're like looking at each other like the radiance of the uh empty and there's no self and then and then they just oh my God there there are often moments where I'm just like why the hell am I speaking about this [ __ ] totally like I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't want to do anything else so like it's fine but I think this reaction is just normal yeah because it's like you see how ridiculous it is to be talking about anything this whole video is the biggest [ __ ] joke in the world like that we would open our mouth about any of this I am and yet and yet it's kind of beautiful perfect like the whole thing I almost don't want to edit a Word of it yeah like everything you're hearing now audience is like exactly as it went down yeah yeah but maybe for the supporter group and give it to your patrons like the full unedited oh that'd be cool I'll give it to you and you you can edit it however you like but yeah for me I I wouldn't do that but meaning like we'd have to watch it and make sure there's nothing that you really didn't want to say because the audience yeah there's a way to edit this in a good way and then there's a way to just hand it to the behind the paywall people that are just gonna just be they're going to be on the ride they're already sensitive you know you think I said something that no not a word but I would give you that option yeah I don't need that option I usually people ask me if they do interviews and stuff and I just like can't care enough to be honest everything you said is exactly you and actually not sure the my only thing that I would look at is and Margaret already said she's like but then part of me is like [ __ ] this who cares yeah but she I just want to make sure her Parts yeah yeah I understand but it was beautiful I'm keeping it forever like that's that's like documentation of a person's yeah it's beautiful Awakening I mean like I give it to Angela to show him he'll be like oh my God he he would be so happy right he will [ __ ] himself with joy because this is his thing he loves to see people wake up and loves to see how they wake up and the way this happened I think was pretty unique in this sense it's not really unique but yeah yeah and the whole sequence of events that pretty crazy drives into it it's crazy just not yeah and now it doesn't feel like there was a center that was like a part of anything you know it was kind of just everything and like yes the so-called feelings and subtle thoughts were like experienced here but still it wasn't really none of it was owned that's beautiful it still has a flavor it ha it's funny here it has a flavor of what you're pointing at and then it has a flavor of of somebody who went through it simultaneously um but even then that flavor of the someone who went through it is so weirdly soft soft and kind of hard to describe in that way yeah yeah yeah it's it's beautiful and it's hard to it is hard because contraction shows up like the car transmission wasn't working so it's like oh now there's a whole sequence of things that have to happen that are really painful like things gotta get towed we have to coordinate how we're gonna go through the day we have a vacation coming up where we were using that car we now have to rent a car we have to so the whole sequence of the mind yeah but then there is the identity underneath that's struggling to feel like it owns the thing like it's like well if I had just if this and now I've got a deal and then that scene so you feel the contraction of it like I'm like man I'm up in my head and the minute you know you're up in your head you're like oh a what head yeah what up yeah what sequence of events like how could what wait there's J okay I gotta say this um the one there was one time in my living room you remember this where the Sun was shining and everything and you were pointing directly and it was so clearly known what you were pointing at which is there's no birth and death there's no events there's only and always been this Radiance of expression of the whole universe coming into being in this indescribability and it's always been this even what you're calling birth and death no it's just been this and it always will be this but there's no always it's just so apparent that I I was just uh and you know it was crazy so that day Margaret's sitting on the couch next to me and you're pointing and we're like locked in this you know very weird eye contact and everything is like radiating off you and but there's not even a you it's just all one Radiance and and she's there and then at the end of that I was like so do you think we're crazy and she gave an answer that was like well I kind of can understand a little bit but then some of it yeah just goes right over my head and so I look at my plant and I look at you know I think about this and I'm like the answer was beautiful her answer was beautiful it was almost like yeah that's actually just just truth yeah that's just perfect yeah and that was before she had any you know shift but that was a shift I mean that is the shift it's always been there in a way she's just so humble and just is what it is kind of sense I don't even know how to describe it but it's funny some Minds can actually perceive it as a kind of it's so Direct that it has a kind of I don't know it's very authoritative in that sense so like it's it's so direct and simple that it comes off as authoritative which the mind can take is oh my gosh that person is a little scary because they can be very direct and I've never perceived that but sometimes like her students will be like oh yeah she's I can see that intimidating I can't see that yeah was I I can see it in in in flashes where it shows up in a certain way and I'm like oh I'm a little scared like she's so direct and you know it's true you know what she's saying is true and that's what makes it scary because the truth may be a little scary for the mind and then it can be a lot scary yeah yeah but yeah I think if I was um still contracted I would be a bit intimidated by her because it's funny a lot of people tell me that they're like yeah we're a little scared of her I'm like really like it it doesn't because our relationship's been so long standing and that was never it was weird you know I'm starting to think feel into that a little you know when she talks about like why she ever kind of got together with me even though I was like this class clown type she had seen right through that at what's underneath so when she expresses to me it's kind of like we do see each other truly yeah yeah at that at that level and um so I don't see that I don't get that impression beautiful yeah it's really interesting yeah when when you guys were on the I think it was the couch and she expressed to you how she really saw you like she described that she saw your true nature yeah I thought that was gorgeous that was really beautiful was that where I like had trouble uh holding back emotion was that was that on the couch or was that in the restaurant oh yeah it was somewhere there somewhere yeah but I was just like oh yeah hey I couldn't it felt I felt so seen yeah it was like oh wow I never we've been so like conditioned in our pattern of behavior that we don't recognize how clearly actually underneath that we do see each other that's why we're still together after 20 years even with uh whatever bits of repression and so on yeah but yeah yeah yeah that's why you guys so-called falling apart on the surface level yeah will only bring you closer oh it's already there yeah exactly took it took all of 12 hours yeah I mean it was is that clear and it's funny because it that the coming together happens and there's still a little like okay but what but you know one thing I've noticed is this and the little contraction then oh oh of course yeah nothing to lose there yes you're actually right and it's just it's almost like it's a virtuous cycle of authenticity and honesty that starts to happen you find it impossible to hold back or to lie today she said something that just blew me away she said you know what from now on I just feel like if I think something and it seems relevant I'm just going to say it out loud and so she was saying all kinds of stuff and I was like damn girl that is such honesty I love it yeah that's how that's what happens yeah can't really hold back much obviously like you say there is sort of a discernment and some things are just like it's not just not relevant yeah yeah and sometimes even those will come back and you'll be like you know I didn't think this was relevant but I'm gonna say it yeah exactly yeah and then you may even feel into it and go well maybe the reason I didn't think it was relevant is because there was a bit of fear or there was a bit of resistance there because it's just very fine and subtle yeah it's beautiful and then there's no right or wrong way it's all kind of intuitively just unfolding I guess yeah it's much less mind-based yeah much less mind-based and there's ridiculous there's there's a there's an intuition base and then there's an energetic base so that's one thing that like I found really surprising that people talk about it but you don't really know it until it happens and that's the energetic sense in the body when emptiness isn't is really how do you even say it's not known it's just you encounter this my my every cell in my body lights up like it's it feels like Just Energy and I think it's because there's still so much reconfiguring that's happening like it just feels like everything's being re written um like all the pattern conditioning is loosening and the the pattern that's holding it is changing its conformation and that feels like energy like you know last night we were laying on the couch we were going to watch TV which we normally do to kind of I think to distract ourselves from having to just sit there together and instead we just sat there together and I started having these I was like wow I'm really having she was talking about something pointing very directly to something that was just honesty and I was like wow it's crazy I told her I go I don't feel any contraction when you say this like it's just so perfectly right and then a little bit after that I started feeling what felt like you could call it like a panic feeling but there was no story of panic it was just the sensation the physical Sensation that you might associate with anxiety or Panic so the kind of fluttering in the chest that energetic sensation and I'm like hey can I just feel this for a second and you I go give me your hand and I put her hand like right here and she just kept her hand there and it just the entire body started to have the kind of these contractions and I could feel it and I was and I was able to like breathe through it and actually talk clearly like I just say something like wow this is a thing you know and but if there was any story or any sense of like holding or resistance that could have been terrifying because of the just intensity of the body situation it wasn't good or bad it was just exactly what it was yeah so these things just come up out of the blue that's beautiful yeah yeah the filters are going the ways of controlling and the imaginary walls so it's just going to feel more Raw more immediate than immediate like there's nothing being nothing relating to it it's just more purely that just that and luckily simultaneously obviously the mind will lose its power the story might come up here and there but it's such a non-prominant thing now um it's like you know at this from here now like I can do a I can scan through the body and then it scans through the desk and it's scanning through you and it's scanning through Infinity there's no boundaries and it's all seamless and it's just a happening it's just this and there's no one scanning it's so remarkable it is it just absolutely remarkable yeah that's probably a good way to wind up our talk what do you think yeah anything else come well you can see like the noticing is impersonal no one is doing it no one owns it it's just happening it's a sort of miraculous phenomena and you can sense even beyond that which is that there's just nothing so even if that so-called disappears nothing changes hmm earthquake seriously seriously oh cool that was a nice experienced an earthquake you just experienced that's why I came here an earthquake you pointed directly at the void and I was there and then the ground show that is crazy that's pretty cool I thought it was the upstairs people I'm like wow do you know how you you can tell because the entire chair the whole environment moves yeah yeah that's cool oh my God who are you Suzanne I didn't [ __ ] and my my shake app didn't didn't blow up which means it wasn't a big one yeah but I will say this I'm going to say this on the record because we have today is April 4th and it's 3 24 pm there have been a series of earthquakes recently in this area I am concerned that a bigger earthquake is pending I just have had this weird premonition for the last few months actually but it could be nothing we're due for one anyways we all know this so that's not a brilliant prediction but it just feels like that and I'm hoping it's going to be okay for everyone and if it's not then we'll deal with it um thank you Suzanne yeah thanks so much Zubin this was everybody just go look at your channel we'll put all the links you and I should go on the road and we'll do a juggling act it'll have nothing to do with non-duality Suzanne non-duality and Zubin non-duality I should change my name to try to compete with you nice but I'll be like a self doing it so I'll be like hey everyone I am totally selfless you don't exist I'll be like huh and then the Earth will shake again thanks everyone thank you Suzanne

Channel: ZDoggMD

Views: 37,314

Keywords: suzanne chang, suzanne non-duality, non duality, spiritual awakening, the zdoggmd show, zubin damania, meditation, no-self realization, anatta, angelo dilullo

Id: 0-SagRrj-1U

Length: 107min 54sec (6474 seconds)

Published: Wed May 03 2023