Super Hacker George Hotz: I Can Make Your Car Drive Itself for Under $1,000

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I want to win self-driving cars yeah we're running it on the phone I could build a better vision system test the autopilot myself in three months Moog was going to lose because there's no market for $100,000 system for us we're just gonna push the software up there and then BOOM all these cars level-4 self-driving we got the insurance company to underwrite the policy you don't have to pay attention anymore at 17 George Hotz became one of the world's most famous hackers when he was the first person to break into the iPhone and reconfigure it to be compatible with non AT&T providers he was also the first to jailbreak the PlayStation 3 allowing people to plain on Sony games and use unapproved software but where's Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak sent him a letter of congratulations Sony sued him Potts known online as Geo ha quickly became a cause celeb of so called hacktivist groups including anonymous and LulzSec they attacked Sony's network despite hot C's protests igniting a firestorm of legal and media scrutiny this case is about a lot more than what I did and me it's about whether whether you really own that device that you purchased now this twenty eight-year-old technical wunderkind is up against way Moe Tesla uber and most of the auto industry in the race to build the first fully operational self-driving vehicle he's taking an approach drastically different than his well financed competition I don't belong in Silicon Valley I don't his company , AI is trying to bring plug-and-play driverless technology to the masses and is doing so with 3.1 million dollars in seed money commas dozen member team which works out of a house in San Francisco has built technology that takes over the existing radar and drive-by-wire systems and modern cars incorporates a smartphone's camera and processor and then makes the car drive itself where the Android self-driving cars right think about Tesla's the iOS all these other manufacturers are hopelessly clueless when it comes to self-driving how do we build something that just works on their cars right and so the idea is that you would then be able to plug and play your self-driving system in pretty much any production car you need some tailoring to the car but so what we're trying to do is you take the top 20 cars America and that's like 50% of the cars sold we want to support most of those how does your system work in contrast to other systems that use sort of a lot of expensive sensors like lidar you have to have a lot of equipment you're just tapping into the car's existing capabilities right we ship a camera and we use the radar that's built into the car and we use the sensors that are already in the car yeah those systems are just not shippable they're not feasible for passenger cars because there's no market for an $100,000 it's just a money sink right so you know this is just done by people who do not think about the feasibility of anything that's why we use cheap sensors gotcha thousand dollars mm and you think that that's sufficient to be able to accomplish everything that the other self-driving companies are doing with their lidar systems oh absolutely right so the truth is even with those lidar systems nobody is act as a level four there are six levels of self-driving ability today's offerings such as Tesla's autopilot and , a eyes open pilot max out at a level two which means the car can auto drive but the driver constantly needs to pay attention and be ready to take over the holy grail is level four at which point the car can handle all driving on most roads the steering wheel and pedals can be removed and the human becomes a passenger who can read nap or take in the landscape in order for you know that to be oak hold your system better be good bit better than humans not perfect it's never ever gonna be perfect but you know it's got to be better than humans right and no system is there Adam so before you started common AI which is your current company you gave an infamous interview to a Bloomberg reporter where you took the reporter on a ride in the self-driving car that you had worked on for a month and you just got to work that morning good are you crazy or how did you how did you know that you weren't gonna die when you brought that out onto the road it's the same safety model that we have today the safety works like this is twofold one the second you touch either the gas or the brakes the system just stops doing anything right so you always have that that user override but the other one that you even need more than this you need to make sure that the car is never going to do anything so quickly that you can't respond and the way you deal this with this is torque limits no it's never gonna go like that it can't it can't there's hard limits preventing that and actually I didn't even write them I'm using the hard limits that were built into the car gotcha so so the car has it's sort of own built-in system where the power steering which is mostly electric now not hydraulic will not be able to jerk it in front of a truckers in the exact commas first consumer product is an app called shiver which turns your phone into a dashcam and uses its GPS and accelerometer now the company is launching panda an open-source $88.00 dongle that plugs into your car links it to your phone and puts out fine grain detail about every aspect of your drive so you can actually use a panda as the bridge between open pilots which is the software that will drive your car in the car itself panda is a universal car interface so when it's used by schiffer it's read-only but when it's used by open pilot it's connected over USB and I can actually touch the car okay so that's what tasks you into the the car system so you can move the steering wheel what kind of cars like can I use this on my 89 Volvo or like do I need a prefer for shipper you'll get something from every car manufactured after 1996 now if you want to get the fancy self-driving stuff well there's only a few cars that open pilots ports right now we're gonna start getting a lot more like I said I want you know in 2018 I want to support the majority of the top 20 car sold in America and right now is there like a baseline of cars that have you know drive-by-wire break by wire gas by wire that you can tap into yeah so we support its Hondas and Acuras right now we just bought a Toyota Prius we're gonna be doing all the Toyotas this year a user one of our users has ported it to the Chevy Volt we have a bounty program I'm just because he cleans up the code a little bit we're jiz it in we're gonna pay him out ten thousand dollars we have a bounty up for the Ford Fusion for somebody to do that or go down to the Tesla Model S B&B your life we're gonna support them all gotcha so you're kind of hacking into the carmaker's systems essentially in order wouldn't think about it like that you're certainly not hacking into anybody's systems your car right we're not not hacking you're not like changing the firmware you're not jailbreaking your every car has a different API to get to the steering wheel the gas on the brakes um so you know it's about finding the api's in the new cars but the car makers they don't want you to be able to have access to our car manufacturers sell cars all right what do they care yeah so why don't why don't you just call up Chevy and be like hey can I get access to the vote why do you pay $10,000 bounty let's even say they wanted us to get access to it right not opposed to it I think they probably would rather us do with the knockers at the end of the day you sell more Chevy's all right but you know they gotta go through their lawyers and you're talking to the business development guy and then he oh he's a level-five he can't be in the meeting with the level fours and they're just such bureaucratic organizations that it'll take me less time to reverse engineer it than it will to get legal approval and then once you finally do get legal approval oh you can be sure it's coming with a 10-page contract that says you can do this and that's not this and definitely not that don't even think about that will sue you liquidated damages and I'm not playing with that we're gonna reverse engineer it we're gonna make it open okay so you're asking for forgiveness not permission basically I'm not even asking for forgiveness right I'm just not like there's no permission to be asked yes your car I don't need permission to you know to use my things that I buy however I want right maybe I think a lot of people should get out of this mindset of thinking right never always said this would like the jail breaks and stuff get out of the idea that like you know no you're buying the PlayStation 3 and it's a closed box and actually Sony owns it and you don't no no I stopped thinking like that right so you've described Panda is basically like a Fitbit for your car you get all this information all this data coming from your car about the driving and the driver but you're you're also feeding this information that you crowdsource because you you have all these different people who are voluntarily putting this software in their car and you're feeding that into an AI which then is learning how to drive so how do you think that this approach is is different and why is it better than what way mo is doing what you know Tesla is doing these sort of bigger players Tesla understands more about what we're doing but let's look at way more right so way low when they want to figure out how to build a cell for ancar they sit for engineers down in a room and they talk about okay well we come upon a stop sign we know that we should stop and we know that we should stop this distance and wait could you get the other DMV handbook out let me see you okay we have to signal 50 meter that's not what driving is right this is the same failure of computer vision for many many years right when people wanted to build like a detector to see if there was a chair in an image they would write out the definition of a chair they would say okay well a chair has a back and it has four legs and it has weight what about a barstool is that a chair well I don't know we're gonna investigate barstools there's a lot of people thinking about this problem and it's absurd you want to figure out if there's a chair in an image or not you get a million images of the chairs a million images of that chairs and you use machine learning to train a classifier that says chair or no chair right so that's the same approach we take to driving there is no rigid specification or definition of driving driving is just what people do when they drive and in order to really get access to the full diverse spectrum of what driving is you need a huge crowd source database and I mean that's what we're building and we'll just learn what it means to drive from people who actually drive hmm right because you got you know operate with humans right it's some it's some like it's some leftist utopian fantasy oh we're gonna wipe the roads of of all the cars and we're just gonna have electric cars interactive look at a Google commercial if you want to see this all right um it's not what's gonna happen right what's actually gonna happen is it's gonna be a bunch of self-driving cars bunch human operated cars and they all gotta interoperate right right and the humans ain't changing to match the self-driving spec so you're saying that one advantage that you have is that you're not using Google engineers and Google cars and everything to go out there you're actually looking at what real people are doing in the field I don't think about what driving is I say so show me what driving is all right that's that's more expensive than if they want to add a new driver you can add pretty much limitless people who have pandas we have a huge network of thousands of people on our network and then the other advantage is that they're they're taking like a rule-based approach so like you're saying they're defining a chair rather than letting the computer figure out what a chair is yeah but don't they also use AI and sort of deep learning techniques what's the difference in well no they're systems so I mean everybody is moving towards AI and deep learning right and like obviously Google is going to you know get to level four before we will nobody doubts this right but the reason Google is to lose is they're gonna get to level four within $100,000 system right and then they have a whole thing to go through to deal with you know okay how do we actually get this in the hands of people if we solve if we get the AI problem solved a year after Google Google's still gonna be sitting there fingering it okay well you know maybe we could all finance it to people for us we're just gonna push the software update right I'm gonna push the button and be like anyone knows this too right we're just gonna push the button in there boom all these cars are level four self-driving we got the insurance company to underwrite the policy you don't have to pay attention anymore done all right and that's the coming out plan right Google can only you know iterate and build on top of what other companies have already done was chrome the first web browser no but it was the best right which was Android the first non iOS you know operating system for smartphones no but it was way better than like Symbian a BlackBerry OS right but but it's not Google in some ways is not like an innovative company right and then when they try to innovate you get things like Google glass the Google self-driving car project is like Google glass I say Google is the Xerox PARC of the self-driving car industry there you see all these good ideas you're bringing out all your companies right push another button and the information is sent electronically to similar units around the corner or around the world this is an experimental office system it's in use now at the Xerox Research Center in Palo Alto California soon Xerox systems like this will help you manage your most precious resource information they just grabbed grab defeat from the greatest victory in the computer industry Xerox could have owned the entire computer industry today so in this analogy you would be sort of like the Steve Jobs going into the Xerox campus getting the graphical user interface and everything like that seeing that they're messing it all I'm a lot more like the Bill Gates maybe he wants the Steve Jobs Bill Gates Wow nobody ever wants to be the Bill Gates I'm not an Apple kind of company I'm a lot more like a Microsoft kind of company what do you mean by that they practically or more art than technology right now they do have good technology backing it up but for me the end result is technology technology is the only thing in history that has had this compounding effect on on human wealth we live in houses there there they're heated we have lights this is off all technology right and that's what I want to be a part of a lot more than well art and so you don't care about making things beautiful no yeah I don't care what make things beautiful I don't care about I'm very anti advertising right like the idea of advertising like we're almost gonna let you know manipulate people into buying our product and you have like atrocious companies like Facebook you know Facebook you're not a user of Facebook your Facebook's product Facebook sells your attention to advertisers right Facebook uses you Facebook uses you right like like that's how it works you know it's not even in Soviet Russia it's and uh Palo Alto California a little park right yeah no I never wanna be that kind of company right like we build technology and you know we open source as much as we can as well hmm right because you know it's not about here's the pie I want my slice to be bigger it's about we can build a really big pie let's build mmm so Apple just recently announced that they are sort of scrapping their yeah hardware initiative and they're just going software does that worry you no um so again when you think about Apple as a company they're gonna play a lot more in the Tesla arena what about that other 70% right hmm most smart phones in the world are androids most self-driving cars in the world in five years will become AI so you basically want everybody who's watching this to be able to turn their car into itself Dressler in five years yeah it really emphasized no regressions well you know we're gonna work to make this better and better and better and more and more consumer friendly right this is all you need to drive a car yeah clap , a eyes first attempt at consumer hardware was the comma one a full self-driving kit for under a thousand dollars but Hots awarded the product launch after getting a letter from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration detailing safety concerns and regulatory compliance issues Hots true outrage both from those who saw the event as a government overreach and those who thought the government had valid concerns and instead of addressing them Hots was just picking up his ball and going home when you look at what we actually did right not what the media said we did so you know maybe we didn't release the actual $999 comma one on kickstarter but we released all the plans for you to build pretty much exactly what the comma one was for free and you can hold him for way less than $1,000 and self-driving car the car could certainly drive itself so the thing about the comma one was it was never gonna be a mass-market product we were maybe gonna sell a thousand of those to car enthusiasts um so you know let's even say we're making making foreign dollars profit unit that's $400,000 right profit to come AI that's more than the lawsuit would cost me more right so it just didn't make economical sense for us to continue with the comma one is planned we had to think of a more clever way to avoid a lawsuit but still basically achieve the same outcome and that's why we open sourced it you want to start a company in the self-driving space literally rip us off literally please its MIT licensed just download our stuff build it into your cars don't give me anything you know you look at the world like that you realize open-source is the way to go hmm you know so what are the benefits to you of open sourcing all of your plans and your products we can eventually work up to a consumer product and we can kind of let the market figure out like if we don't build the best localiser if somebody else built and open-source localizer we'll use that coming as an ecosystem we're gonna be the constellation of you know things surrounding Android just as androids an ecosystem right it's Google it's the app developers it's the phone manufacturers with a Google for the ecosystem but I want to see the Samsung's in the HTC is enough all right Camas new self-driving kit for under a grand is called the common neo hot says it's similar to a gear virtual reality headset and that it's powered by a smartphone the common neo mount schools and connects the phone to the car comas open pilot software then taps into the phone's camera and the car systems to auto drive it and there are people out there who have these and they're actually posting on you there's ninety nine people right now running open pilot we have thousands on the shipper Network will see 10x growth in the next year we'll have a thousand right where we're constantly growing right now I'm not sure how many cars away Moe has running so they might be the second largest network but I think we're pretty close when they're Tesla obviously has tens of thousands of these things right and so the common neo is a sort of a full self-driving system maybe someday I probably shouldn't say this but like maybe someday all you're gonna need a shipper and Panda right you learn the shipper app on the phone it talks to your car with Panda maybe just your phones to drive your car right right now you needed a special phone well right now you need a special phone running a special operating system you know you need a cooling solution because phones aren't quite at that point yet but every year they get better and every year billions of dollars is poured into making smartphones better and we get to leverage that billions of dollars of investment of companies in a way that like you know no other self-driving company would even think oh they're running it on a phone yeah yeah we're running it on a phone phones are really really good yeah it's super exciting when you think about like really what's possible here and the fact that almost nothing can stop it and that's why it's open source or it's not even like like you don't have to like work with us you don't have to sign some sketchy back room business development deal it is open source and MIT licensed please download it and use it all right like it's not like you know we're not one company what initiative you're gonna gonna issue it it can't you recall right like what do you recall we didn't sell you anything get a recall software yeah good luck oh right so you mentioned Elon Musk release the Titan so we've been able to accelerate autopilot and bring it to market faster every car coming off the line and test at the factory has the autopilot hardware you guys got into a little bit of a public spat I guess maybe it wasn't that negative but in 2015 you kind of criticized some of his technology as his technology I criticize his choice of a partner in mobile life okay yes you criticize the fact that he reneged on a contract well this is what I want to ask you about because you guys have kind of different stories about this so my store is correct so he says you wanted to bet that you could outperform his system Yeah right and then you made this bet and then you ultimately didn't want to agree to the bell mosque needs a vision system for his car I wanted to replace mobile I I don't like yeah sure I'll do it give me a recon tracked and I'll get you something incredible you know you want change deal last minute he changed it from a contract which has rigid completion criteria to basically an option for him to buy he's kind of like build it and then you know I'll pay you if I like it well it's not worth it for me right at the time he said in an interview that you were under estimating the technical challenges involved right and he said quote it's not like George Hotz a one guy in three months problem you know it's more like thousands of people for two years well it's it's two years later right who's closer who's who's gonna make this happen my chest was always gonna be a little bit ahead of us um because they started earlier right all I said was I could build a better vision system than Mobil I myself in three months and like you know I kind of did that right so yeah the whole self-driving problem no of course that's going to be a I'm not gonna say thousand-person problem coming I was a 12-person company it's been about two years and I think it's gonna be at least another three in order to fully solve the problem I've come to respect a lot more what he said there about you know start a company you need validation you need good engineering practices he's right mmm fine yeah I mean you know at the end of the day uh you know the egomaniac a big ego I love I love I love being right but not at the expense of being wrong right misunderstanding you know you should never you should never I tribute to malice what you can attribute to a misunderstanding and I have a ton of respect for your mosque I mean I really do it's nothing there's nothing like how I feel about Ford in Florida zone Elon is doing so much good for the world when it comes down to it I really do regret if I inconvenienced him I mean you know you punched me I'm gonna punch back a little but like you know at the end of the day Tesla's not our competition we would love to see Tesla succeed I would personally just love to see Tesla's basic succeed because that's the kind of world I want to live in the oh it turns back to the pie argument right I'd rather Elon Musk have a much bigger share of the pie than me as long as the pie tastes awesome right for it on the other hand like those companies need to lose right because what good are you doing for the world you're holding the world back to make money right this is you know a big big fan of capitalism but like you got to avoid rent-seeking all right you got our void rent-seeking and in a monopolistic behavior and where you're just making money because you have kind of yeah yeah Elon is doing doing absolutely great things for the world and if his capital was better deployed somewhere else besides paying me then I think you made the right price so you also bet him last year that your system could successfully navigate the Golden Gate Bridge okay we can both time the media so I'd like to play it up so we can both drive across the Golden Gate Bridge okay after an intervention let's just say so you both win when everyone with big pie you know it doesn't win for I have to say though I also really like your pie analogies because I'm also from New Jersey so yeah last thing about Elon Musk yeah I he's he's become sort of an alarmist about AI he wants international bodies regulated he thinks it's gonna destroy humanity if we don't do this it is the biggest risk that we face as a civilization is artificial intelligence once there is awareness it will be extremely afraid what do you think of that I'm not sure it presents any particular threat that previous weapons have not it's just about how the people are gonna use the technology now if Elon Musk is calling for an international arms control regulation he should look at history and see how all that has worked so you're skeptical of sort of intervening you think it'll be it'll self-regulate or people in the field are better I think that I think that yeah you know listen to people in the field I certainly think that it's incredibly premature to talk about any sort of government level AI regulation that's not it's not going to kill me tomorrow there's things there are a lot more likely to kill me tomorrow all right like a driving yeah yeah yeah the AI alarmism I mean these aren't problems that we should be thinking about but to believe that somehow in the next two years Google is going to accidentally build Skynet is absurd you're not an alarmist about AI in that sense but you have you know raised a few eyebrows because you've said in the past that you think that AI is going to take everybody's job absolutely and you cannot wait for that day you think this is a good thing right but people have been saying that since you know before the Industrial Revolution right the elevator operators were saying that like the elevators gonna take all the jobs so what's what's different now so the Industrial Revolution replaced man's muscles right very few jobs today at least in first world countries are people doing work with their muscles right you even think of like traditionally muscular work like mining it's not people with pickaxes it's people with levers operating hydraulic machines right so you know people are always at always gonna replace all the jobs right the car really did replace all the jobs of the horses right aren't that many horses left the horse population of the world peaked in 1917 the last refuges man's mind and once you start building minds that are superhuman well you know yeah there are no more jobs for humans it's great this is a great world wait isn't this tea isn't this the end game of technology in general right didn't you sit there and be like man you know I'm really sick of ho in this field wouldn't there be great if there was a mechanized oh right then you got to sit on it and operate it and now you go to a modern farm and it's gotta know it's a tractor with an apple an X GPS I think like you know maybe some union is why the person still has to sit there but they just don't do that much I they watch the finger I've enough and I mean this is a great world right this is this is a great world so comma will ultimately be a mechanized hoe company as we work where our talents are so what does a world like that look like where nobody has a job except for a Iran I think I think a month in advance I think I think I got I got a I got a date tomorrow night I'm excited about that that's about as far in the future as I think but I really don't you maybe wanna get some Camel I think that would be really cool right like you know to replace throughout everything today but yeah I wanted a today are you just less but you don't see this as a dystopian future you're hopeful absolutely yeah not a complete optimist about the future people just outraged about things I don't know why well living in the best time ever right we are living in paradise practically yeah when's the last time you have to deal with home man when I go to the coffee shop there might be Lions Lions right so getting back a little bit to the driving so that the data that you're collecting you know it's about things like people's locations their driving habits you know a lot of personally identifiable potentially information things that would be attractive to stalkers hackers pee eyes government agencies so you know being being a super hacker yourself you know that these things are vulnerable to outside groups command so how are you protecting your customers data and how do you view that the privacy issues so first off let's talk about personally identifiable information from from shipper right we do not record either the microphone or the phone facing camera I don't want pictures of your face I don't want to make a name I don't rage I don't wanna get gender all right this is not your data that I'm interested in this is your cars data that I'm interested in I'm not trying to sell your advertisers right every night so I take your point but I would say at the same time that's the the art the NSA makes a similar you know argument all the time right we're not listening to your phone calls we're not looking at your Facebook profile we just have metadata but if you look at somebody's metadata you know you can find out where they work they have kids where they go to school where they go to church what the religion is I just make the data public right I would have no problem with the NSA and metadata collection I don't think these things are necessarily bad I just don't like the idea that one organization has an op-ed let's make the data more public so you just don't value privacy as like sort of a you know in your own life like would you be upset if privacy went away there's a thing about privacy in general right and at the end of the day you know people might yell at me for this but this is really how you have to look at the world right the NSA is a big problem and the reason the NSA has a big problem because they have privacy and you do not be nice if we both had privacy but I don't see that happening either so maybe the real solution is we don't have privacy right but they don't have privacy either that's a pretty radical view right like I don't think there's a lot of people who'd be very comfortable with all of their data being online there's a difference between all of your data and all of your metadata right right now like you know data in terms of like we're gonna what you're saying on a phone call maybe even if you make a phone call but like where you drive I mean that's already public and we have to accept this I could hire a PI to follow you around right and that doesn't really violate any expectation of privacy I think when you step out of your home into the world you're you're entering a public space this is what the laws say well I mean Google did it all with Street View right and if you're outraged about Street View come on Google spends all this money to do this and then provides a free service for everybody I love Street View right so you got to think about whether the you know the benefits just outweigh the costs I don't want to have a monopoly on data right this is the old way of thinking what if we could open our data up more and really think about it not as like you know Facebook owns this data Google owns this data but we all collectively own the data right and you're contributing to a big collective pool of data right no it's at the market it's not you know it's not like oh we're all gonna do this for smiles and roses or you know whatever UNICEF create this data contribute to this all the data combined is a whole lot more powerful than any piece of the data alone and I think we can do incredible things with these sort of data sets right what regulatory issues do you see having to tackle as you kind of move forward into a semi self-driving or a full self-driving system well I'm even seen this Nestor's the regime be a lot better than the last initiative regime they the mark whatever his last name was the first mission he talked about like how his dad died in a motorcycle accident how this is a personal crusade for him and how if Tesla autopilot has two more accidents were pulling it off the road stop stop 30,000 people are dying a year stop with that rhetoric right let's use statistics let's use math let's use engineering and let's solve these problems right you're not gonna be able to constructively prove this is what you do with a stop sign the arguments that should be made for these sort of things and they're the kind of arguments the Tesla's making are statistical arguments okay if it turns out that people with the system get into 50 percent less accidents than people without the system the system is good so is what you're saying that you're you're arguing for outcome based versus process based regulation are they actually adopting that sort of standard yeah they do they do in fact the nishta tesla auto pilot letter which came out after the comma one was very encouraging for it this is basically witnessed two sad Tesla said here's our crash statistics before auto pilot here's our crash statistics after and you know at least like rear-ending collisions were reduced by 30 percent as they should be right so this is it's a great thing to see that Nishat accepted that argument did almost be criminal if you were to ignore or a technology that's saving tens of thousands of lives just to just anything that can can work how come based should be what's right and dude identify as anything politically no you just are highly tribal no interest it's all about the war with nature sort of like an Adam Smith state of nature okay some day so I can eventually move into virtual reality and live in a great artificial world that everything is awesome in and then go on cool quests everyday and slay dragon beast some virtual dragon beast you know no real dragon beast have to die even vegans are okay with this guys stop fighting like at the bottom of your web page you have the text we are actually about to change the world that mostly is a stab at other startups who use this rhetoric of we're going to change the world right yeah I mean you know Facebook's changing the world too yeah you know hey yeah Hitler change the world though you know hey it's not it's not always right like we're we're changing the world we're not like using this to sell you any timers so you're serious about it you're supposed to what it's about like yeah it's again it's again it's about like like I think of the world is like nature and we're trying to build like like you know more accurate local geysers and then better sensors and put more data on the Internet and grow the internet and like that kind of stuff right so that's what I mean by actually not you know I've a line in a song with the SoundCloud sounds like that Kon flash Tom Cruise um changing the world is just a euphemism for how can I get you to give more stuff to me and I think that's how a lot of people view it and here's my argument for this right I have the best phone I have the best phone you can buy in order to get a better phone I would have to spend millions and millions of millions of dollars I know what a practically start a phone company right because you can't buy a better phone than this right there isn't like a phone for two thousand dollars that's any better so we have to move the world forward in order to get this technology that I want I can't sit in my basement and build my own virtual reality thing we need all the technologies that support that we need to move the whole ecosystem further you know we need a better display technology we need better localization technology for head-tracking maybe we should start looking into like neurological link stuff so I can feel sensations right like it's a huge it's a bio it's it's the biggest project maybe humanities ever done take it oh maybe I is the biggest one and then a I can build me all those cool things and as this what open access is contributing to that sort of communal knowledge gathering who's open access like even Tesla has gone to open access for their patents and some of their technology your open access oh yeah intellectual property here's my feeling intellectual property right it's kind of like we had this problem of like good scarcity right a lot of wars are fought over good scarcity and like how many potatoes are there I got to kill you because I need more potato we build this intellectual property thing that's actually not scarce right you know I feel property a scarce good I think we put artificial squeeze guns to make it artificially scares really people really this is the best thing we could come up with right um so ya know I'm all about like just you know which I think we shouldn't really view it as like a monopoly on oh okay I drew Mickey Mouse fur so Mickey Mouse is mine you can't make Mickey Mouse porn definitely not definitely not Lobby to make sure right come on so you want the pie to be big enough that Mickey Mouse porn is it you could be in a small sliver maybe not a corner of the pie that I go to but hey you know that is the first example you thought of that that's the classic one I mean you think about you think of the Sonny Bono copyright extension Act you think about these copyright extension acts that have been passed copyright is designed to incentivize the creation of work right why do you need to extend it to cover works that have already been seven years it's it's become absurd right and then like patents or this this absurd like it's not you know they're just no big companies fighting each other maybe it's monopolistic maybe it's not it's not you're protecting your inventor anymore right it's big companies we need a patent strategy and all right let's wrap up here so your first goal is to get your software good enough where it's at a level three system as as you've said so where the driver can fully disengage and doesn't isn't expected to have their hands over the wheel the whole time right for certain stretches of road at least like maybe if you're in traffic or if you're on the highway yeah how far away are we from this so our hardware isn't quite good enough to do that now so we're gonna need like the next generation of kamma hardware which we're looking at and we're trying to be like the phone companies we're trying to come out with something new every year right moire eye tech is gonna need to be better and then we're gonna have to operate this thing in shadow mode for a while all right where people are using it but they still have to pay attention then if it turns out that all these people paying attention actually didn't need to have paid attention by statistical arguments then we'll show these statistical arguments to an insurance company or to a bank or you know insurance is pretty simple game and then we say okay on these stretches of highway your system is level three feel free to disengage you need to be ready to take over 50 seconds so your pitch to the insurance company is hey statistically our system is safer than if you let the driver drive themselves so you should want them to and how long do you think it'll be before if you had to give a guess before that'll that'll come online um I think in some stretches of Rome maybe two years um and then you see like the full battle you know three you start getting more and then five I think the self-driving car game is gonna kind of be over and you're gonna see who the winners are all right so in five years I'll come back and see you and I won't have to drive myself probably all right well I'm counting on you to make this happen yeah I'm really excited about it but I'm just watching so yeah I might be wrong you know I'm always humble in the face of nature um so we'll see we'll see you but I'm gonna try my best George Hotz of kamma AI thank you so much for talking to us today for reason I'm Justin Monticello [Music]

Info

Channel: ReasonTV

Views: 1,785,948

Rating: 4.8694425 out of 5

Keywords: libertarian, Reason magazine, reason.com, reason.tv, reasontv, George Hotz, Justin Monticello, self-driving, driverless, autonomous, cars, vehicles, hackers, open source, Google, Waymo, Tesla, Uber, Ford, permissionless innovation

Id: aqdYbwY9vPU

Channel Id: undefined

Length: 35min 54sec (2154 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 27 2017

Reddit Comments

Cool video but if I ever have to read the term "super hacker" again I will remove my brains from my head

👍︎︎ 2373 👤︎︎ u/WinesFine 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

"I don't want a bigger piece of the pie, I want the pie to be bigger" what an awesome mindset.

👍︎︎ 1878 👤︎︎ u/ItsTimeToGoBig 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

There is a difference between making a car drive, and making it drive well. Making it drive is easy. Doing it well takes some pretty good sensors, hardware, and AI.

👍︎︎ 397 👤︎︎ u/Amanoo 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

I can make your car drive itself for the cost of a brick! Can't promise you'll always get where you're going, however.

👍︎︎ 239 👤︎︎ u/joebacca121 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

His ideas are nice and he's obviously a smart kid, but I feel like his arrogance will destroy him.

👍︎︎ 24 👤︎︎ u/Airazz 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

This was a surprisingly good, informative video. I encourage everyone to watch it even is Hotz is not your favorite guy. I can see why, but this video might just make you look at him in a better light.

EDIT: typo

👍︎︎ 229 👤︎︎ u/JKJ420 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

the most amazing part of this video is when Geohot said he's got a date.

👍︎︎ 38 👤︎︎ u/JJDude 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

I'll take, >Things You Shouldn't Skimp On< for 1000 please Alex.

👍︎︎ 154 👤︎︎ u/nerdcore72 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies

Yeah, OK pal. That fact this dude is so confident in his tech without seeing enough data to confirm/deny a single assumption means he's a damn fool. I've worked with people like this. It sucks.

I can promise you, you don't want this in your vehicle unless you enjoy playing Russian roulette with your car.

👍︎︎ 38 👤︎︎ u/[deleted] 📅︎︎ Oct 28 2017 🗫︎ replies