Sunak rocked by Conservative resignations over Rwanda bill

now Rishi sunak has suffered a rebellion by 60 of his backbenches this evening over his bill to send Asylum Seekers to Rwanda the rebels included a parliamentary Aid and two Deputy chairman of the conservative party who also resigned they were trying to amend the bill to block migrants from using international human rights laws to prevent their deportation they didn't succeed because the opposition joined with the government vote to vote down their changes well our political editor Gary Gman is with me Gary what does it mean well it's at the higher end of expectations for this uh particular Rebellion it's not good for the prime minister's Authority I'm told he was witnessed in the lobbies of people voting uh conservative MPS voting with him uh he he was witness thanking them uh for voting him not a not a good look but everything really uh comes down to third reading the vote on the totality uh of the bill you don't lose those votes and linger long your Authority disappears do the Tory Rebels actually have the numbers and the appetite for a defeat like that at the end of tomorrow's voting when that third reading uh vote will come along on the numbers 58 Tory MPS plus two who've become Independents were uh Tories well yes they they could do it on those numbers but there were only 26 Tory MPS willing to abstain on the second reading a similar sort of moment you might think and when I asked one of those who is actually ready to vote against uh the government come the third reading uh what he thought were the chances of having enough people alongside him uh he said I think we might get 20 on a really good day maybe we'd get some more extensions but but he said they'll all ask me what next and by that he meant what would be the implications for Rishi what he meant there was his Premiership wouldn't survive how many Tory MPS right now have the appetite for that I asked this uh uh former Minister about that and uh he said well if not now it's coming do you get a sense tonight that Rishi sunak is probably by the end of tomorrow out of this wood but not all the woods the accommodation in Rwanda has still not been used no planes have set off richy sunak Critics on the right of his party insisted only their hardening of his bill would make Mass deportations possible and this morning Boris Johnson backed their cause tweeting that the right course is to adopt the Tory Rights Amendments after cabinet met this morning the government announced a sweetener to Tory Rebels extra judges to FasTrack Rwanda migrant appeals it didn't impress the rebels and the coverage alarmed the most senior judge in England and Wales I'm afraid that um this headline draws matters of judicial responsibility into the political Arena to be absolutely clear matters of deployment of Judges the allocation of work for judges and the use of courtrooms is exclusively a matter for the Judiciary the recent briefings that seem to come from the government that they're expecting a lot of cases under their law and they they're going to provide a lot more judges to do it aren't they telling us that it isn't going to work it's right I'm afraid to say that that does appear to be the inevitable inference to be drawn from the statement have been made at the channel today there were no recorded attempts on the 20 mile Crossing by small boats the Prime Minister finds his attempt to deter them in the future goes almost too far for One Wing of his party and not far enough for another the only countries in the world that have fixed this problem laterally Australia and Greece have been willing to take the most robust action are we we must well I am if Amendment uh that are designed to make this bill even less compliant with the rule of law accepted that causes me and a number of other colleagues a huge problem we cannot support the bill the right of the party is saying if you don't give us what we want prime minister we're going to try and bring your bill down you from the other section of the party are saying the same thing what does that tell us about the health of this party oh no look I I think that it's right to have a proper debate about one of the greatest shall it is threatening the Prime Minister put rocking a hard place the language of threat is not really part of this you know this is an un yeah well I'm absolutely sure one thing that you and I both agree on we should be so proud of our country shout about it all the time I always say this prime minister this country of ours is a gift to the world Lee Anderson seen here a fortnight ago with Rishi sunak was one of two party Deputy chairman who defied the Prime Minister and resigned before they were sacked this parliamentary Aid also rebelled and lost their job on this issue I'm going to uh turn my fire briefly and in a very friendly way on the Prime Minister he should get a move on with this richy sunak calculating things could look a lot better for him when it comes to the critical vote on the whole bill tomorrow the third reading the eyes to the right 68 the nose to the left 529 although the Rebels on the right mustered 60 Tory MPS tonight plus two former Tories and eight dup MPS for their amendments which soon acts gambling must nothing like that number for the big vote tomorrow what's your message to him if he thinks he can call your what I would say is that there are 65 colleagues who have signed the Amendments that we're considering today they could all burn off very quickly they could possibly they will but you know frankly what we're not doing is seeking to hold a gun to anybody's head the gun analogy I mean some people would say your gun's not loaded uh because you can't actually bring it down down at third reading you haven't got the support for that well it's almost tempting to refer you to the line in Dirty Harry do you feel lucky I know that they they they risk looking like the sheriff in Blazing Saddles if they're not careful uh you know don't get to me or I'll blow my own brains out I really don't think that that sort of approach is helpful this evening has seen a coordinated show of defiance by the Tory right a challenge to rishy Sak's Authority but his allies say it's surviv able as long as the bill itself survives tomorrow's vote Gary gibon reporting there while joining me now is one of the MPS who backed these amendments to Jacob reog thanks very much for joining us this evening obviously an enormous uh majority for the government are you viewing this as a a victory or a defeat this evening well it was a good number who voted in favor of the Amendments um the last time pretty much I was a teller I think um was on the leveron inquiry and there were 530 vot against and this time they're only 529 so it's a slow Improvement but the truth is what does this actually mean what I think very no it's important because it shows what the support is within the Parliamentary conservative party for going further but crucially there was an opinion pulled yesterday that showed that almost every parliamentary seat wants tougher migration controls and wants the bill toughened up in the way that we were advocating and the reason I mentioned Lon is that I think as with leveron the 529 that time 530 who voted against tightening up the bill are out of touch with the mood of the British people but the point is these amendments don't go through so you change nothing um you change something the government has been indicating how it would approach um rule 39 instructions coming from the European Court there's been an evolution in its policy in that way so what happens in the House of Commons doesn't always change the law on that day but it certainly has an important political you could change it tomorrow couldn't you if you got enough to vote against the third reading of this bill then things would change quite dramatically well voting against the overall bill is a different matter because then you lose all the good bits of the bill as well as um having an opportunity to try again you won't be voting against we'll have to wait and see till tomorrow we should be doing the interview after that but let let let um tomorrow wait upon tomorrow but the truth is that what matters tomorrow matters more than the 68 people who back this amendment today doesn't it true well the end of a parliamentary process is always as important as the beginning of it isn't it that that must be true and that as a parliamentary process works through you need to look at it in its totality and then the bill will go if it passes thirth House of Lords and maybe Chang there so um politics is always an evolving process but it's all about putting pressure on Mr sunak to change this bill I mean you saw two resignations today Lee Anderson Brendan Clarks Smith did they resign before they were sacked well um who knows you'll have to ask the chief whip that but in a way it doesn't really matter that Collective responsibility arguably applies to Vice chairman of the conservative party or Deputy chairman and um they have decided that it's more important for them to back these amendments and I think that was perfectly reasonable thing for them to do leanderson particularly seen as a you know a real Ally of the Prime Minister on occasion certainly a very vocal voice Le Anderson is a powerful political Voice who connects with voters you see what one wores me about today is that the country at large would have supported the Amendments and ultimately politicians have to be in touch with theate people support the Amendments if it doesn't actually change anything what is the game plan here for people like you what we're doing is encouraging the government to move in the right direction the government already has moved a long way in the right direction so although this bill may not be perfect it's a long way way from where we would have been a couple of years but it's entirely possible that the bill goes through tomorrow doesn't it unless people voted for the voted for the amendment today have the courage or the ambition or The Bravery however you would put it to vote against the bill itself that's a different question because the bill has bits in it that are excellent it's got a notwithstanding Clause it's got clarity about the safety of Rwanda um it has effectively reversed the Judgment of the Supreme Court this is a proper constitutional thing for Parliament to do and a powerful thing for Parliament to do so Jacob if I could hold you for one moment Miriam Kate has has uh thankfully because I can now go do GB news say thank you very much go without telling me how you're going to vote tomorrow Miriam C so so Jacob ree smog said that you know this this does bring about significant change I don't understand how how does it if um the Amendments don't pass well it shows the strength of feeling I think uh in favor of tightening up the bill um we can sign amendments we can talk about what we want but until we get those numbers on the paper the numbers through the lobby then it's not clear to the government um how much feeling there is and the numers tell you tonight well the numbers tell us that there's very strong support for tightening up the bill I think the debate was very interesting as well the number of people that spoke in favor of this bill actually working and that's what we want to achieve we want the bill to work we want to create an effective deterrent so that people smuggling gangs across the world know that anyone who arrives on our shore illegally will be swiftly detained and deported that's the point of the bill it currently has loopholes that's why we're trying to amend it tell me those amendments don't go through today how does today practically change this bill well we very much hope that the government will now take the strength of feeling very seriously we have been negotiating with the government in good faith but as we all know they haven't yet put forward their own Amendment or accepted ours we hope that will change over the next 24 hours now that the numbers are apparent and you all have seen some very high-profile names in that Lobby uh Lee Anderson and Brendon Clark Smith have just resigned from their positions in order to vote and to put more pressure on Rishi soona well exactly this is all about pressure It's All About Numbers isn't it we want the bill to work we're keen for these amendments to go forward we've got to show the government with strength of numbers that there's feeling but as you know about the numbers it's very easy to rebel against amendments that you know were never going to be passed so tomorrow is key so Jacob Reese MOG wouldn't tell me that he would vote against the bill tomorrow will you you have said today that you're minded be prepared no I haven't said that I said I would be prepared to but 24 hours is a long time in politics we've got another full day of debate tomorrow there will be more amendments voted on tomorrow not just our amendments amendments from the opposition amendments from the government potentially we don't know yet so it's a long time but yes I would in theory be prepared to but what I really want is for the government to tighten up this bill we all want the same thing here which is it to work it's far too risky at this late stage in the parliament to put forward a bill that could get caught up in the courts from month to months exactly is that is that a polite threat to Mr soon you don't want this to fail for him nobody wants it to fail the prime ministers want it to fail he had said said he would do whatever it takes to stop the boats and that's what we need to do so what do you think will happen Could Happen practically in the next 24 hours you talking about um them rewriting the bill bringing it back in weeks months time so so one possibility is that the government could bring forward a new bill I mean that would be unusual but it's not unprecedented and it could be done and there was some discussion about that actually in the debate in the chamber today so that could that could be done that is a possibility um but or the government can tighten up this bill in the way that we've outlined and the government gave us some fairly uh uh clear instructions before Christmas which is that if we could come forward with some amendments that had a respectable legal argument they would consider them these amendments do have a respectable uh legal argument we've now given them the numbers to show that they must consider them the Prime Minister has said today that he will put forward 150 judges give them extra sitting time at weekends and the evenings to make sure these cases any the appeals are dealt with quickly why wasn't that enough you because the government says that the bill as it stands uh will not permit individual um uh appeals because they've said it's so tight there'll be very few so if they're bringing forward 150 new judges surely it just implies that they accept there will be lots of individual challenges which is exactly what we're warning and just just briefly I mean is there a danger that the public watching this won't be able to necessarily engage with the slightly Arcane language of um complicated amendments they will just look at this and say ahead of a general election this is party once again split divided not looking like the next party of government well I think the party was the most divided it had ever been in June 2019 and we all know what happened in December 2019 but I think there was a very interesting poll published last night in the telegraph that showed that the most preferred option amongst voters in almost all constituents in the country was to solve this problem was Swift detention and removal that was the most preferred option you don't get that right or if that doesn't happen and we won't have a deterrent and then the bill will have failed and that's why we're so Keen to tighten it up because we want the bill to work maram Kate thank you so much for joining us thank you

Channel: Channel 4 News

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Keywords: rwanda, rwanda bill, rwanda vote, uk rwanda, rwanda bill amendments, lee anderson, rishi sunak, the rwanda bill, rwanda bill vote, rwanda news, rwanda asylum, migration, illegal migration, migrant, migrants, asylum, asylum seekers, refugee, refugees, rwanda plan, rwanda policy, rwanda vote today, rwanda asylum seekers, rishi, sunak, rwanda debate, parliament today, politics, politics today, uk politics, politics uk

Id: X-2eaOzYFTg

Length: 15min 12sec (912 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 16 2024