Studio 2: Carl Sagan

Carl Sagan is an astronomer who has looked up and wondered ever since he was a child he has wanted to visit the planet since then now he has a vision of our future in space and he explains it in his latest book pale blue dot professor carl sagan joins me now welcome thank you so much there are a number of ways of looking at this pale blue dot of ours some people would see it and be struck by the immensity of the universe others would see it and be struck by some sort of terrible insignificance of this planet we inhabit what do you see when you look at the pale blue dot well it is true that some people are disappointed that the earth has such a comparatively insignificant role in the universe but my view is first of all it's not our job to impose our wishes or fears on the universe our job is to understand what the universe is really like there is something very humbling about that picture we've just seen though isn't there I mean does it strike you that way certainly I mean here we are like mites on a plum and the plum is this little planet and it goes around an insignificant local star the Sun and that star is on the on the obscure outskirts of an ordinary galaxy the Milky Way which contains 400 billion other stars and this galaxy is just one of something like a hundred billion of the galaxies that make up the universe and it is now beginning to look this universe is one of an enormous number maybe even an infinite number of other closed-off universes so the idea that we are central that we are the reason there is a universe is pathetic we have to simply come to grips with the real universe that we really live in and if some of our myth and some of our religion is inconsistent with it it's time to change the myth and the religion you call them the great demotions all of these these thoughts which we have so cherished well guess what the universe doesn't revolve around the earth and guess what the earth isn't the only world out there are we still clinging to any conceits such as such as those which led to the great demotions over the past few centuries well you would think we should be over it but we still are battling at least in the United States the conceit that humans are separate from the rest of nature that an unbridgeable gap separates humans from the other plants and animals that we are the particular beneficiaries of the concern of the creator of the universe more than any of the 10 million other species of plants and animals on the earth when in fact all of our vaunted uniqueness turns out to be shared with with other animals especially with chimpanzees our closest relatives with whom we share 90 million point six percent of our hereditary material another area in which the demotion is being fought is the idea that there are no other planets beyond those in our own solar system but in the last 15 years the most marvelous set of findings says occurred in which it now appears that planets are an ordinary probably inevitable accompaniment of star formation and that almost every young star like the Sun in the early stages of formation it's surrounded by this flat disk of gas and dust out of which the planets were formed and we now have the first bonafide a real planetary system around a very unlikely object a particular pulsar called twelve fifty seven plus twelve and the technology is just about to reach out and find whatever planetary systems there are nearby and a third one is the idea that even if there are an enormous number of planets only ours has life and intelligence and they're the the story is open we send spacecraft to other planets like Mars to see if there are any simple forms of life excuse me we use radio telescopes to see if messages are being sent to us by civilizations and planets of other stars so far although they've met some very curious tantalizing findings in both of those approaches we have found nothing definitive unambiguous evidence for extraterrestrial life and the debate is still open in our ignorant the geocentric still find open each of these great demotions over the centuries when when each of our old conceits fall they've all been in some way or another a rebuke to religions from Galileo and the church and Galileo having been proven to be somewhat smarter than the church all the way on down yet there are still those in science who say the exquisite nature of the universe the exquisite laws of the universe are evidence of a designer of a creator does that view make sense to you it's very tempting I mean we want to be thought of as children being cared for by an omnipotent omniscient and benevolent creator I mean think of all the uncertainties and turmoil and terrors of our life which would be made less terrifying if this were true but here if anywhere is a case where we must not believe because we want it to be true now if you take a look at Darwin you see a case where it was so tempting to say I find a watch it requires a watchmaker watches do not spontaneously self-assemble and now I find an a coin or a squid or a bacterium it is much more intricately and exquisitely put together than a watch here - there must have been a creator it's very natural but what Darwin pointed out is that there is a perfectly reasonable process which is inevitable which will create enormous exquisite order out of chaos given enough time if we thought the universe was only six thousand years old there is not enough time and evolution as nonsense but if as in fact is now definitively true the solar system and the earth are four and a half billion years old billion years old then there's plenty of time for evolution and our sense that order means creator is wrong finally you can say look you can go back as far as you want but somehow the stuff of the universe had to come from somewhere and isn't that what God did but that's only true if the universe was created if the universe was always here if the universe was infinitely old then there's nothing for a creator to do most of us would be surprised to hear that the universe is going to end one day we expect the universe to go on forever into the future why do we have the idea that it doesn't go on forever into the past I'm not saying I know the answer to this this is one of the deepest questions we do not know the answer we simply have to keep an open mind all of us philosophers scientists religious people no one in fact knows you make the argument in pale blue dot that it's time to hit the road again skyward as in space travel exploration perhaps colonies for the very salvation of the species how is that well first off as you suggest we we are a wandering species we come from hunter-gatherers we are nomads and for the million years that the human family has been around that was our lifestyle that must be built into us deeply it's only the last 10,000 years that we've had a settled and sedentary existence and now the earth is all explored our exploratory instincts are unfulfilled and I think many people I recognize not all but many people would long for real exploration of real new world even vicariously secondly while I don't for a moment suggest that the earth is a disposable planet it is nevertheless true that we humans are now a danger to ourselves our technology really can cause enormous insults on the protect the environment that protects us and especially the atmosphere and therefore if we were concerned at a prudent regard for the long-term well-being of our species we would hedge our bets or as conservatives like to say we would diversify our portfolios we would put self-sustaining human communities on many worlds so if the worst happens there would be an outpost of us somewhere else the danger in that thinking though that we come to regard the earth as disposable well we know this nest let's move on to the next it's it's a very good question and by the way even birds know not to foul her yes how come we don't know that but the argument you've just presented would be true if it were an either/or situation but in fact the the cost of moving out into space done over a reasonable timescale matching the technology which is centuries is tiny compared to the cost of making the environment of the earth right these are not competitive we should do short term and long term things both part of your fame sir Sagan apart from Johnny Carson making making sport of your billions and billions and billions I never said by the way you've never said that never did I say he said here he made a career these impressions part of your fame stems from the fact that you are a scientist who makes science intelligible does it trouble you that to so many people science remains unintelligible that science is something so foreign to people people take some sort of pride and saying oh I know nothing about science I'm really date absolutely science and technology are the key to our civilization I mean look at television look at so much if you look at anything food anything you find we have made a civilization based on science and technology and then at the same time have arranged things so that almost nobody understands science and technology that is a clear prescription for disaster we might get away with it for a while but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is gonna blow up in our faces we must make science and engineering palatable and the thing is it is so exciting it is so stirring and it's exciting listening to you it wasn't exciting in grade 11 physics let me tell ya but loads here my experience my experience is you go talk to to kindergarten kids or first grade kids you find a class full of science enthusiasts and they ask deep questions what is a dream why do we have toes why is them around what's the birthday of the world why is grass green these are profound important questions they just bubble right out of them you go and talk to 12th grade students and there's none of that they've become legend and incurious something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade and that's not just puberty and you're a nerd if you love science in the 12th absolutely absolutely now whatever this is do do and part of it is certainly the fact that grown-ups have not made the excitement of science available to to kids this is really foolish we have in fact beaten science excitement out of kids they start out excited and then we arrange whatever the machinery is for them to wind up not liking it then and this is just so self-destructive for good how do we get it back how do we in view them well that's sort of television television a certainly a very good way to do it the success of cosmos seen in 60 countries by 500 million people your series on PBS oh that's right I mean who figured it would be so successful and that's and from the letters it's very clear so clear that people hunger they understand that science is essential for their future they understand that decisions are being made using science and technology about their future that they have no control of especially in democracies because they don't understand it they understand that science is reaching out to the deepest questions of origins from the origin of our species and our planet to the origin of the entire universe issues that every human culture has addressed and that we are really finding out the answers to today they want in and the society doesn't provide it schools do not teach it well the media are in many respects hostile to it you see it runs right through the the society and students have a responsibility teachers have a responsibility especially teachers who don't understand the material that they're teaching why is the basketball coach teaching chemistry why is it that very spiffy jackets with the school letter on it that are attractive to members of the other sects are made available to varsity football base ball and basketball teams but not to those who perform extremely well in mathematics or science or history or English who made the decision that these attractive jackets should go to the one group but not the other group and is that a wise decision the issue that you've raised it seems to me a very important one and the interesting thing is that there is no one place in the society if only we could fix that one thing higher teacher standards let's say we would fix it all know it runs too deeply many places in the society have to be fixed for this to happen and if not then some other nations which do science education better will have corresponding advantages including economic advantages and one nation will sink and another will rise in the standard Darwinian sense Carl Sagan thank you it's a pleasure to be here thank you helped Evo create a better world through the power of learning visit support TV org and make a tax-deductible donation today

Channel: TVO Docs

Views: 300,760

Rating: 4.9425607 out of 5

Keywords: TVO, TVOntario, TVOKids, Polka Dot Door, Polkaroo, education, public television, Elwy Yost, Steve Paikin, Allan Gregg, Big Back Yard, Big Ideas, Canada, Space Carl Sagan science

Id: v0CG5TM0oa4

Length: 16min 23sec (983 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 21 2015

Reddit Comments

[u/yetanotherpenguin]

Hail Sagan!

[u/rustyfinch]

I never realized he was so outspoken against religion - the rest of the interview is worth watching as well.

[u/QuigonBong]

Or get rid of it all together.