Stewart Mandel: The Pac-12 Messed Up When They Didn’t Take Big 12 Teams in 2021 | Realignment

one of the only other premium subscriptions that I have is to the athletic.com which is a fantastic website we have a lot of their writers on very frequently one uh that uh really wanted to have on because of his coverage of all this from the beginning Stuart Mandel of the athletic joins us now and Stuart I'm gonna get this out of the way right now because a lot of people have asked me about it but you tweeted earlier about freezing cold takes coming at you and you put up the mailbag where you had backed off those comments so it has been kind of a long strange journey in this realignment but just curious about uh having to have a lot of like Grace and a little bit of rubber skin when it comes to that when you you know all this went down the last couple days I mean I don't have any problem uh ever admitting when I wrote something it turned out to be wrong and you know you mentioned a tweet where I actually linked to a mailbag I wrote in November of last year well before the Colorado thing I mean it this all dates back to a story in the summer of 2021 right after OU taxes where I crunch some TV data um and the mistake I made was trying to project okay based on the CV data here's how much money they can expect to make it was totally off base it was totally wrong uh so again like acknowledge that in November right after the big 12 um analysis deal to your point was what's a little bit rough is then you have to go through all that all over again like with hot it was cold take that day and now it's been cold take all over again because of Colorado but um you know some some writers or get Bayless like just dig in and dig in and digging up I got it wrong I got it wrong so this all went down and like I I was reading your column the other day about this and how the Pac-12 got here um when you were observing this uh covering the Pac-12 when did you start to see the shift in where they had started to Veer down the wrong path where they but you mentioned your article this is the worst team in their league that they lost and they couldn't even make them happy I mean they start to go down the wrong path two years ago when they had a chance to take some big 12 teams during that period of instability and decided they were good where they were at um there have been a lot of other mistakes along the way but I can't emphasize enough that even though it's been no secret for 13 months that the Big 12 coveted those Arizona school I mean those four corner schools and Colorado in particular at some point march-ish maybe a little later it kind of went from there after the four corner schools to Colorado was the one most likely to go despite all of that I do believe genuinely believe George thought they were past that the deal is almost done it's going to be a good deal everybody's committed everybody you saw the comments that packed on me today you know their patience is about to be rewarded and so for Colorado to turn around you know less than a week after he made this comments at media day and do it he just it looks it's just such a terrible look it looks they look weak they look unprepared um yet another case of the Big 12 and brought your mark out maneuvering George starting with uh jumping the line on the TV deal it's just it's been one thing compounded after another it's not all on tours play Alco Larry Scott started them down this road with a lot of bad de facto Network but I think he deserves to blame for not getting the deal done in time to keep like you said the team's actually been the worst team in football in their conference to keep them from jumping and in doing so putting the whole conference on the brink Stuart the Big 12 was dead to rights a couple of years ago after the Oklahoma and Texas uh announcement and uh it seemed like you know it was going to be everybody scrambling for life jackets instead the the schools that remained or were going to remain all stuck together and that's what the pack is having to do right now the pac-9 and you just have to trust that everybody is going to stay on board which is probably the most difficult thing because you know that everybody's also looking out for their best interest and somehow probably because yes there wasn't a lot of Landing spots for Big 12 schools they were able to stick it out but if you have been told that not only were they going to stick it out but they were going to add the four schools they did and then they were going to add Colorado another year later and be in the position now where they are uh just what all do you attribute that to uh Brett Your Mark I guess loyalty within the conference and how surprised are you that we are here where we are with the big 12 now well let's go back to Bob bullsby and and sure you know after that initial you know remember him going to the state legislature and saying that that 50 you're going to lose 50 percent of the value like that honestly at first contributed to the sense that everything was going to fall apart but then to his credit and to the president's credit he made some very good choices in terms of getting BYU Cincinnati Houston and UCF and so just going out and getting because remember for a decade the Big 12 just refused to expand there were 10 we're good at 10. and look what happened right so they went big they got those four schools that helped bring stability then right I mean the big 12 TBL doesn't current TV deal doesn't end until 2025 and Gregor Mark convinced Espana Fox to let them go ahead and renegotiate it in 2022 and that's the ultimate stability we know what our TV future looks like we're not in the in the place that the Pac-12 is where they're in this you know endless negotiations and nobody knows how much money they're going to make um and then and so I feel like the Pac-12 is almost doing everything that the Big 12 did in the exact opposite you know it's not it's not the wrong instinct to go to the open market in in TV deals you're generally going to get more money if there's more bidders unfortunately for them they did it at like the worst possible time when ESPN and Disney um are going through this this kind of raining back in their spending but the thing that's puzzling me the most right now is he just continues to be so adamant they have to get the TV deal done first and then they'll talk about expansion obviously that's not what the big 12 did they they got their lineup so that they went to ESPN Fox they knew those Partners knew exactly what schools are getting and some of those schools BYU is is having ESPN uh deal since they became an independent uh Cincinnati went to the playoffs right so that helped them in their TV negotiations the Pac-12 I personally believe and others I've talked to who actually do this for a living TV negotiations don't understand why they don't just go out and add you know to schools if not more tomorrow and that that if you that if they believe those schools would actually help the value of the TV deal Stuart um you you mentioned that they're kind of doing it all in Reverse of the big 12. and why not just copy what was working for them did they just not grasp the reality of their situation that well they definitely didn't grasp it in 2021 now one kind of story that gets lost or maybe hasn't been totally told is that I do think there were people in the Pac-12 and possibly even the commissioner that did want to add Big 12 teams that year and Carol Holt the president of UFC is the one who shot it down and then she turns around and leaves a year later so I mean the notion that they could have stopped USC and UCLA from going to the Big Ten is not realistic they were gone but everything since then it's just I don't know it's just two different personalities two different Commissioners with two very different personalities um honestly you know some of the stuff regular Mac has put out there didn't seem realistic um getting Colorado is a bit of a Vindication for this idea that you could you know go out and sell the conference and get a power five school any power fly school um to come and now we're gonna find out if that has a domino effect I think they've felt for a while Colorado was the most open to it I mean certainly the fact that they used to be in the conference is a big deal um that they're in most receptive and that if they got them maybe that opens the door to Arizona I don't think it goes beyond that at this point I think the Utah and ASU um conversation ended along but you know now that Colorado actually made just one thing to talk about it's another one you actually see at school makes the jump does that influence Arizona Stuart uh yeah I mean that's that's I guess the million dollar question now they had their meeting last night it seems like you know Oregon state had their statement but again what are what are Oregon State's options here really uh is it as simple as just hey let's go grab the Aztecs let's go grab the ponies add the Texas Market we got SoCal back in and everything's Rosy and fat and happy again nothing's ever simple in the Pac-12 uh and and and I say that because as of media day last Friday from the conversations I had there were two schools I don't feel like I have it nailed down enough to say which too um that opposed expansion now this was before it was in Colorado but that were good to stay at 10. if that was what it was gonna end up being and yeah it has to be an 82 vote so you can't have any more than those two oppose it and ideally you'd want to be unanimous so first step is getting those two off that ledge you logically think okay we're not going to say it now and who knows and then which schools and to SMU and San Diego State have been the two most talked about most logical from an athletic standpoint I mean San Diego State in some ways you could argue as an upgrade from Colorado they're just in the national championship game in basketball they have had you know they've had a much better football program during this time but but it's not just about Athletics as you know and he's president and I think pacquel presidents are the most Ivory Tower of any of them and they might just say if I'm going to school sorry so it hopefully Common Sense prevails for their sake because the the the they need to they need to do with big 12. the big 12 set could have just added two but they said no we're going to add even more because we don't want to go through this again where we'll leave in the conference might fall apart so it'll be very interesting there was a statement uh from the Pac-12 after their meetings last night that again reiterated the sequences media deal and expansion that doesn't mean it went well maybe it happens within hours I don't know but that continues to be their their stance do you think especially after last week it was very confusing what George cleopkov was saying about we're not going to announce the media deal because you want to focus on football which always confused me because George no one is going to ask you how Lincoln Riley's defense is going to be you won't have to answer that question all day today you you could steer clear of worrying about breaking down their transfers and all that you that's not why you're here but uh do you think that there is a deal on the table that they could take right now and they're trying to fine-tune it or do you think that there's a deal close to the table in their estimation I honestly don't know and nobody else knows I mean they have they have they have kept such a tight circle on this now maybe it's expanding right now because of the situation I was told that when when George the akov meets with these TV Partners about these negotiations there's only one other person from the conference in the room yeah there have been times I've asked ads and they just say no we nobody's told us we don't know so you know look at the fact that if it let's say it's days or weeks away you would think somebody somewhere would know oh ESPN's a part of it or NBC is a part of it or so on and so forth nobody's got anything now maybe maybe I'll look like an idiot again somebody will report in the next hour this network in this network but I don't know I don't know I mean they just keep saying a couple weeks away but they've been saying a couple weeks away since March so I I mean at this point though there's I feel like there's a bit of a Race Against Time like Arizona's president in particular uh from what I've been told has been probably the most patient of anybody and and has been a advocate of you know let's wait longer and see what other offers we might get but now he's facing a decision and I just don't think you can continue to drag this on if it's really going to take weeks I think that's a big problem for them Stuart it wasn't uh but I guess a few months ago when uh George cloth was talking about the power of prime and you know the appeal of the the Colorado brand and how Prime could affect ratings how much do you just factor in Dion and this whole Colorado move and his sway uh in their ultimate decision well there's no question that Dion being a Texas guy would rather be in the big 12. he's never come out and said that but I think you know talking to people around there like that's that's a given of course he's not the President right so he doesn't get to single-handedly make that decision but I'm sure it was taken into account and the interesting thing about this whole situation is that imagine if we had you know said a year ago that the Big 12 is going to really want of all programs Colorado I mean they've been so bad for so long and Dion has single-handedly made them attractive again course the question is how long is the I'm going to be well first question is D I'm actually going to win he hasn't coached the game yet he's certainly made a lot of headlines but we don't actually know yet how he's going to do and if he does do well how long is he going to be there because that that next TV deal where I kicks in in 2025 will Diane still be the coach of Colorado at that point or will he have moved up to an SEC school like who knows but you know it's certainly a big part of the equation for them right now I think ultimately when you make these decisions so you know when a school joins a conference you don't know who the football coach is going to be five years from now um you know you can't it's long-term decisions and I think what the reason this kind of made sense for both parties is we already know what it looks like when Colorado's in the Big 12 they were actually a really good program when they were in the big 12. so you have some proof of concept there how quickly did you said that they're racing against the clock how quickly do you really think they've got to move to Stave this off at the very least um and this is like worst case scenario it has to happen before football season you can't have this dragon on you want them to focus on football you have to get this done but I do think that the longer it goes the more chance nobody's gonna panic I'm not we don't know like how close is it in to even being you know sometimes people make it seem like at any moment George cliocoffee just say all right we're done this is the deal like there's there's people on the other side of the table that have to agree to it but you know and and by the way those parties now have more leverage because they know the situation the fact Falls in um but yeah I think I've been on the phone constantly this morning I've heard everything from so many things will be done by Tuesday to um next few weeks so sorry that doesn't narrow it down more no well it's about par for the court yes it's close it's close I think is what we always say here yeah it says close so just Stuart what was that uh I mean there's obviously been this this bad like these like these battle lines were drawn and um that's been the case over the last few months on social media and you've seen it all you've experienced it all you talked about how you know the freezing cold takes and all that but uh just what do you kind of make is this just all a result of survival mode for everybody and kind of seeing the riding on the wall with college football TV slots and the way things are shaping up moving forward I mean obviously there's the the wild card that affected everything with uh the streaming side of things not being you know just a money Mill for everybody just spending extravagantly on anything and everything and that's hurt the pack to some extent but is this just a byproduct of the whole I guess evolving landscape of College athletics college football broadcast in some ways it's been really surreal to watch how college football at least on Twitter and I realized Twitter's not they're like the whole college football population how everybody in the last two years has become obsessed with TV ratings um linear versus streaming all Twitter uh works for like a sports media consultancy but you're absolutely right it's because people realize how much conference realignment hinges on these things and um and we have seen stuck you know two two huge changes with with oucc and USC UCO the Pac-12 and everybody's worried about their future uh if you're not one of those two conferences so you know you combine that with this is all happening at a time when the way we watch games is changing overnight I mean there's a NFL playoff game this coming year on peacock right we that when did peacock launch when did that when did we even know what that existed that existed I feel like it was like maybe the year last year or two years ago it's changing that rapidly um so I think I totally understand if you're a fan you're trying to wrap your head around all this that you're suddenly becoming way more versed in streaming services and the economics of the business and all that I'm still trying to figure it all out myself it's a very um unusual time this season by the way will be a little bit of a peek into it right we're gonna be you're gonna need peacock if you want to watch certain Big 10 games including a pretty good one uh early in the season um you know the changes are going to start to kick in this year uh next year 2024 uh is when the SEC CBS game goes to sorry to ABC um the whole way we consume college football is kind of changing before I final thing from for me and I think from from all of us here if you would um and I know this is kind of just loose fantasy booking prediction but based on all the thing you've heard uh things you've heard from your sources and just kind of eye in the landscape and sort of knowing the way that the table said at the moment what do you think is the most uh realistic positive outcome that the pack can pull off moving forward and what do you think also is the most realistic path that the Big 12 can pull off as far as all of these movements uh here over these uh I guess here in this near future what do you think is the most ideal outcome that's realistic for either side foreign I think one notable detail that's come out in probably the last 24 hours is that the Big 12 is not gonna it doesn't appear that the Big 12 just has like endless spots that keep expanding I think that they have Colorado they need one more school and that's good news for the fact as well because even if that one school is Arizona there's not a destination for all the other schools to jump to so you know I think the best case scenario obviously for the Pac-12 is Arizona stays they add one two more schools and move on with their life but even if Arizona leaves as much as that seems like an absolute dire scenario you're gonna have 18 you could add two more you could add four more the conference isn't going to vanish it's not going to be nearly as attractive a conference as it used to be but it's not like if you're Oregon State who put up that ridiculous statement today they're committed to fact 12 as if they have any other choice like you don't necessarily have to worry that we're gonna we're gonna have to go to the Mountain West it's just going to be a very diminished we have to be still be what we consider a power Fire Conference just to diminish clarified conference and if you're the Big 12 I mean that kind of depends on who if you I mean if you gave George Cleo cop a treat serum I think he would love to have Yukon and Gonzaga more than Colorado but you know like being realistic football drives the bus way more than basketball so you know I think that the the most um the cleanest thing for them is that Arizona does come and you've got now two kind of natural geographic partners and um and he kind of achieves his goal right he said all along he wants to be in all four times in Arizona by the way is only in that time zone past the year but it still counts yeah absolutely just because they figured out the daylight savings time is stupid before all the rest of us doesn't mean we have to have to get rid of it well Stuart thank you so much for hopping on I know that we had to move it because yesterday you were you were scheduled for during the time the news was happening yeah right when they voted on it yeah that was quick too wasn't it I mean that was not like any messing around that was like Hey we're going to the big 12 all in favor boom and they were out there in like 15 minutes it felt like yeah you could tell that the meaning they'd have the day before they actually talked about all this stuff it was already clearly done all right Stuart thank you so much uh enjoy the the rest of the summer before the season hits but uh really you're probably working non-stop because we have no idea where the next Domino is going to fall from yeah I remember reading where he says what are you doing the off season I hate that question this this is what we're doing out here yeah yeah absolutely Stuart Mandel the athletic thank you so much so here on 365 Sports coming up next

Channel: 365 Sports

Views: 22,118

Keywords: CFB, CFP, College Football, Big 12, Opinions, Sports, 365, Sports Talk, Radio, 365Sports, news, Reactions, CBB, NCAA, Interviews, reports, Conference realignment, Conference expansion, Big 12 realignment, Pac 12 realignment, TV deals, TV Agreement, Pac 12 TV Agreement, Pac 12 TV Deal, Colorado Buffaloes, Colorado Buffs, Colorado realignment, Big 12 Expansion, Stuart Mandel, Pac 12 Commissioner, George Kliavkoff, Brett Yormark, Big 12 Commissioner, Pac 12 Football, Big 12 Football

Id: LveZ6tr8D9Y

Length: 21min 24sec (1284 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 29 2023