Steve Jobs and Bill Gates Together in 2007 at D5

[Music] I've invited here today three industry experts to have a panel discussion on software [Music] and now ladies and gentlemen the Macintosh software dating game [Music] welcome to the Macintosh software dating game software CEOs could I please ask you to introduce yourselves hi Fred Gibbons president software publishing corporation hi I'm Mitch Kapoor president of Lotus we do a product called one two three my name is Bill Gates I'm chairman of Microsoft and during 1984 Microsoft expects to get half of its revenues from Macintosh [Applause] [Applause] so software magnate number three when was your first date with Macintosh we've been working with the Mac for almost two years now and we put some of our really good people on it software CEO number three well Macintosh be the third industry standard well to create a new standard it takes something that's not just a little bit different it takes something that's really new and really captures people's imagination and the Macintosh of all the machines I've ever seen it is the only one that meets that standard [Applause] software CEO number three describe your ideal relationship with Apple well we'll be selling our software independently so the key thing is that Apple gets a lot of consistent standard machines out there quickly well sorry Steve time's up we'd like to give Steve a few moments to decide today's winner [Music] okay see who's the winner apples are red IBM's blue if Mac's gonna be the third milestone I need all of you [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] now I'd like to talk about meaningful partners Apple lives in an ecosystem and it needs help from other partners it needs to help other partners and relationships that that are destructive don't help anybody in this industry as it is today so during the last several weeks we have looked at some of the relationships and one has stood out as a relationship that hasn't been going so well but have the potential I think to be great for both companies the discussions actually began because there was some patent disputes and rather than I know [Applause] rather than repeating history I'm extremely proud of both companies that they have resolved these differences in a very very professional way and I happen to have a special guest with me today via satellite downlink and if we could get him up on the stage right now [Applause] exciting work that I've done in my career and has been the work that I've done with Steve on the Macintosh whether it's the first introduction or doing products like Mac Excel these have been major milestones we're very excited about the new release we're building this is called Mac office 98 we do expect to get it out by the end of this year and I think it's going to really set a new benchmark for doing a good job with performance and exploiting unique Mac features in many ways it's more advanced than what we've done on the Windows platform and we're also excited about Internet Explorer and we've got a very dedicated team that's down in California that works on that product and that code is really specially developed for the Macintosh it's not just a port of what we've done in the Windows environment we look forward to the feedback from all of us as we move forward doing more Macintosh software Thanks the era of of setting this up as a competition between Apple and Microsoft is over as far as I'm concerned this is about getting Apple healthy and this is about Apple being able to make incredibly great contributions to the industry to get healthy and prosper again so thank you all for coming I look forward to hearing the grilling in the chair tonight and in the days to follow [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] like what you sit here [Applause] well thank you before we get started I think you know there were some pioneers of course we have the pioneers here on stage but there were some other really important pioneers in the video we just saw and a couple of them are here in the audience so Mitch Kapoor who is a regular D could you just stand up and and and Fred Gibbons who has not come to D before but is here tonight Fred Fred right there and I don't know if he's in the room but I do want to recognize our fellow journalists Brent slender from fortune who did the last to my knowledge the last joint interview these guys did it was not on a stage but it was a Fortune magazine interview Brent I don't know if you're in the room for you are can you stand maybe he's over there so let's get started I want to ask there's been a lot of like mano-a-mano catfight kind of thing in a lot of the blogs and the press and stuff like that and we wanted to the first virgin accountant was interested in asking is what you think each has contributed to the computer and technology industry starting with you Steve for Bill and vice versa well you know bill built the first software company in the industry and I think he built the first software company before anybody really in our industry knew what a software company was except for these guys and that was huge that was really huge and the business model that they ended up pursuing turned out to be the one that worked really well you know for the industry so I think but the the biggest thing was Bill was really focused on software before almost anybody else had a clue that it was really the software that's that's what I see I mean a lot of other things you could say but that's the high order bit and I think building a company is really hard and it requires it requires your greatest persuasive abilities to hire the best people you can and keep them keep them keep them at your company and keep them working you know doing the best work of their lives hopefully and Bill's been able to stay with it for all these years so bill how about the contribution of Stephen Apple well first I want to clarify I'm not fake Steve Jobs [Laughter] you know what Steve's done is quite phenomenal you know if you look back to 1977 that Apple 2 computer the idea that it would be a mass-market machine you know the bet that was made there by Apple uniquely there were other people with products but the idea that this could be an incredible empowering phenomena Apple pursued that dream you know then one of the most fun things we did together the math was the Macintosh and that was so risky and people may not remember that Apple really bet the company Lisa hadn't done that well and you know some people were saying okay that general approach wasn't good but the team that Steve built even within the company to pursue that even some days that felt a little ahead of its time yeah I don't remember that twiggy disk drive and 28k yeah and the Twiggy distro Steve gave his speech once which is one of my favorites where he talked about in a certain sense we build the products that we want to use ourselves and you know so he's really pursued that with incredible taste and elegance that has had a huge impact on the industry and his ability to always come around and figure out where that next bet should be has been phenomenal you know Apple literally was failing when Steve went back and reenact a 'king that have been phenomenal so the industry's benefited immensely from his his work we both been lucky to be part of it but you know I'd say he's contributed as much as anyone we've also we have also both been incredibly lucky to have had great partners that we started the companies with and we've attracted great people I mean so everything that's been done at Microsoft and Apple has been done by just remarkable people none of what you're sitting up here you know today you're sort of the and you're sort of your so you're in a way you're the stand-ins for all those other people in a way we are I'm very tangible way so bill mentioned the Apple 2 in in 1977 and 30 years ago and there were a couple of other computers with which were aimed at the idea that average people might be able to use them in looking back on it and a really average average person might not have been able to use them by today's standards but it certainly broaden the base of who could use computers I actually looked at a at an Apple ad from 1978 it was a print ad that shows you ancient and and it said thousands of people have discovered the Apple computer thousands and it also said you don't want to buy one of these computers where you put a cartridge in I think that was a reference to eat one of the Atari or something no you want a computer you can write your own programs on and so the world and obviously people at simple yet some very strange as back then we had one where it was in a kitchen and there was a woman that looked like of the wife and she was typing and recipes on the computer with the husband looking on approvingly in the back stuff like that how did that work for you I don't think well so but but just think back to I I know that you started a Microsoft prior to 1977 you I think Apple started the year before in specifics Microsoft in something or was that when we started right of any babe yeah then we did the bait ship the basic in 75 okay most people some people here but I don't think most people know that there was actually a some Microsoft software in that Apple 2 computer do you want to talk about what happened there how that how that occurred yeah the there'd been the Altair and a few other companies actually about 24 that had done various machines but the 77 group included the pet trs-80 Amador in the Commodore pet trs-80 and the Apple 2 the original Apple 2 basic the integer basic we had nothing to do with but then there was a floating-point one where and I mostly worked with woz on that I made my partner we started out with Scott you steve wozniak brilliant brilliant guy he writes this basic that is like the best basic on the planet it does stuff that no other basics ever done you don't have to run it to find your error messages it finds them when you type it in stuff it's perfect in every way except for one thing which is it's it's just fixed point right it's not it's not floating point and so we're getting a lot of input that people want this basic to be floating point and like we're big and woz please please make this floating pose we how many people are in a pond me yeah the bagan laws to make this floating-point and he just never does it you know when he wrote it by hand on paper I mean you know he didn't we didn't he didn't have an assembler or anything to write it with it was all just written on paper and he typing in he just never got around to making a by any point well this is one of the mysteries of life I don't know but he never did and so you know Microsoft had this very popular really good floating-point basic that we ended up going to them and saying help and and how much was that I think you were telling us that was $31,000 that Apple paid you for the floating-point basic and I flew out to Apple I spent two days there getting the cassette the cassette tapes were the main ways that people stored things at the time and you know that was fun I think the most fun is is later when we worked together what was the most fun tell tell the story about the most fun that was later and maybe later not the most fun well Steve can probably start it better the the team that was assembled there to do the Macintosh was a very committed team and there was an equivalent team on our side that just got totally focused on this activity Jeff harbors a lot of incredible people and we really had better our future because we on the Macintosh being successful and then hopefully graphics interface in general being successful but first and foremost the thing that would popularize that being the Macintosh and so we were working together the schedules were uncertain quality was uncertain the price when Steve first came up it was going to be a lot cheaper computer then it ended up being but that was fine you worked in both places and both well we were in Seattle and we flied down but Microsoft if I remember correctly from what I've read wasn't Microsoft one of the few companies that were allowed to even have a prototype of the back of the what's interesting what what what's hard to remember now is that Microsoft wasn't in the applications business then the men they took a big bet on the Mac because they this is how they got into the apps business I mean Lotus dominated the apps business on the PC back then right we had done just MultiPlan it was a hit on the Apple 2 and then Mitch did an incredible job betting on the IBM PC and 1-2-3 came in and you know ruled that that part of the business so the question was what was the next paradigm shift that would allow for an entry WordPerfect we had word but WordPerfect was by far the strongest more processing debase and database and word was at what that was a kind of a DOS a text all of the all of these products I'm saying we're das based write products because Windows wasn't in the picture at the time that's more in the early 90s that that we get to that and so we made this bet that the parent time shift would be graphics interface and particularly that the Macintosh would make that happen with 128 K of memory 22 cabe which was for the screen buffer 14 K was for the operating system so it was 14 K yeah the original Mac operating system was 14k 14k that we had to have loaded when our software ran so when the shell would come up it had all the 128 K the OS was the OS was bigger than 14k it was in the 20s somewhere I think so we ship these now we ship these computers now with you know gigabyte two gigabytes of memory and and nobody remembers 128 K I remember that and I remember I remember paying a lot of money for computers with iron okay in those days so the two companies worked closely on on the Mac project because because you were maybe not the only but the principal or one of the principal software creators for it right is that right well Apple did the Mac itself but we got we got Bill and his team involved to write these applications and we were doing a few apps ourselves we did Mac Paint and Mac draw and stuff like that but Bill and his team did some great work now in terms of going moving forward when after you left and your company grew more and more strong how did you what did you think was gonna happen to Apple after sort of the disasters that occurred after Steve left well apples fate hung in the balance we continued to do Macintosh software and you know Excel which Steve and I introduced together in New York City that was kind of a fun event that went on and did very well but then you know met Apple just wasn't differentiating itself well enough from the higher volume platform and meaning Windows right I mean Dawson Windows okay but especially Windows in the 90s began to take off by 1995 windows became popular the big debate wasn't sort of Mac versus Windows the big debate was character mode in her face versus graphics mode in her face and when the 386 came and we got more memory and the speed was adequate and some development tools came along that paradigm bet on GUI paid off for everybody who'd gotten in early and said you know this is the way that's going to go and but Apple wasn't able to leverage its they weren't you Robbie's they after the 512 K Mac was done the product line just didn't evolve as fast it Steve wasn't there as it needed to and we were actually negotiating a deal to invest and and make some commitments and things with Gil Amelio no seriously I mean don't be mean to him I'm sorry just saying the words girl Emilio you can see and so I was calling him up on the weekend and all this stuff and next thing I knew Steve called me up and said don't worry about that negotiation of guilhom you know you can just talk to me now and I said Wow you'll Gil was a nice guy I was saying he said Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom leaking water and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction [Laughter] okay so and meanwhile through all this I mean I want to get back to the thing we saw in 1997 at Macworld there but windows was just going great guns I mean windows 95 to whatever extent earlier versions of Windows had not had all the features all the gooey stuff that the Mac had windows 95 really was an enormous enormous leap yeah 95 is when graphics interface became mainstream and when the software industry realized wow this is the way applications are going to be done it was amazing that it was ridiculed sort of in 93 94 was not mainstream and then in 95 the debate was over it was kind of just a common-sense thing and it was a combination of hardware and software maturity getting to a point that people could see it so I don't want to go through every detail the whole history of how you came back but thank you you have yeah but you in that video we also you said you had decided to that it was destructive to have this competition with Microsoft now obviously Apple was in a lot of trouble and I presume that there was some tactical or strategic reason for that as well as just wanting to be a nice guy right I mean you know Apple was in very serious trouble and what was really clear was that if the game was a zero-sum game where for Apple to win Microsoft had to lose then Apple was going to lose but that's a lot of people's heads were still in that place well a lot of people's heads were in that place at Apple and even in the customer base because you know Apple it invented a lot of this stuff and Microsoft was being successful and Apple wasn't and there was jealousy and this and that there was just a lot of reasons for it that don't matter but the net result of it was was there were too many people at Apple and in the Apple ecosystem playing the game of for Apple to win Microsoft has to lose and it was clear that you didn't have to play that game because Apple wasn't gonna be Microsoft Apple didn't have to beat Microsoft Apple - remember who Apple was because it forgotten who Apple was and so to me it was pretty essential to break that paradigm and it was it was also important that you know Microsoft was was the biggest software developer outside of Apple developing for the Mac and any so you know that was it was just crazy what was happening at that time and Apple was very weak and so I called bill up and we tried to patch things up and since that time we've had a team that's fairly dedicated to doing the Mac applications and they've always been treated kind of in a unique way so that they can have a pretty special relationship with Apple and that's worked out very well in fact every couple years or so there's been something new that we've been able to do on the Mac and a great great business for us and and it's actually the relationship between the Mac development team at Microsoft and Apple is a great relationship it's one of our best developer relationships and do you look at yourself as rivals now today as the landscape has evolved and we'll talk about the internet landscape and everything else and other companies that have come before but how do you look at yourselves in this landscape today I mean you you are competitors in certain ways we watch the American Way right the commercials and you get annoyed at each other from talking to it I have to confess I like PC guy yeah he's great you know the part of those who know the art of those commercials is not to be mean but it's actually for the guys to like each other Thanks hey see guys pc guys great I like to not a big part [Laughter] his mother loves him I like PC guy totally you see guys what makes it all work actually yeah all right it's worth thinking about how do you let me just ask you Bill you obviously Microsoft is a much larger company here in many more markets many more types of products then then Apple is minoo when you were running the company or when Steve Ballmer is running the company you think obviously about Google you think about I don't know Linux in the in the in the enterprise you think about lots of I mean Sony within in the game area how often is Apple on your radar screen at Microsoft in a business sense well they're they're only a radar screen as an opportunity and in a few cases like the Zune that if you go over to that group they think of Apple as a competitor they love the fact that Apple's created a gigantic market and they're gonna try and come in and contribute something to that that and we love them because they're all customers I have to tell you I was actually told by Jay Allen I'm serious that because of the nature of the processor the development platform they used to develop a lot of the software for the Xbox 360 was Macs and he claimed that at one point they had like placed the biggest order for whatever the mac tower was at the time of anybody and it was Microsoft I don't know if it was the biggest but yeah we had a the same processor essentially that the Mac had this is one of those great ironies they were switching away from that processor while the Xbox 360 was adopting it but for good reasons actually in both cases because we're not in a portable application and that was one of the things that that processor roadmap didn't have but yes we did it chose pragmatism but we'd try and do things that way so that was the development system for it the early people getting their software ready for the introduction of of Xbox 360 and we never ran an ad on that admirable restraint as one there were hundreds of them Steve is so known for his restraint from an Apple perspective I mean you compete in computers and I mean you could say you don't compete you know the era of destructive whatever we that whatever you said in 1997 but you think you're consciously aware of what they're doing with you know if you've followed this too closely I think what's what's really interesting is and we talked about this earlier today if you if you look at the reason that the iPod exists and that Apple's in that marketplace it's because these really great Japanese consumer electronics companies who kind of owned the portable music market for a long long invented it and owned it couldn't write so couldn't do the appropriate software couldn't conceive of and implement the appropriate software because an iPod is really just software it's software in the iPod itself it's software on the PC of the Mac and it's software in the cloud for the store and it's in a beautiful box but it's software if you look at what a Mac is it's its OS 10 writes in a beautiful box but it's its OS 10 and if you look at what an iPhone will hopefully be its software and so the the big secret about Apple of course is not so big secret maybe is that Apple views itself as a software company and there aren't very many software companies left and Microsoft is a software company and so you know we look at what they do and and and we think some of its really great we think some of its a little bit of its competitive and most of its not you know we we don't have a belief that the Mac is gonna take over 80% of the PC market you know we're really happy when our market share goes up a point and we love that and we work real hard at it but apples fundamentally a software company and there's not a lot of us left in Microsoft's what you may be fundamentally a software company but you've been known at least to your customers into most journalists is the company that kind of pays a lot of attention integrating software and hardware you know Alan Microsoft has made some recent moves to be a little more like that obviously not in your core biggest businesses but with Xbox and Zune and you know the surface computing device we saw today is another example these aren't markets that hold up in size to Windows or office but there are some of your more recent initiatives are are the company's approaches to this Alan Kay had ridging a little or Alan Kay had a great quote back in the 70s I think he said people that love software want to do their own hardware you know well build up software you know I can resist that the question is are there markets where the innovation and variety you get is a net positive the negative is that in the early stage you really want to do the two together so you want to do prototyping and things like that you know really is one thing and then take the phone market we think we're on a hundred and forty different kinds of hardware we think it's beneficial to us that even if we did a few ourselves wouldn't give what we have through those partnerships likewise if you take the robotics market very undeveloped we have over a hundred and forty all tiny volume robots using Microsoft software and the creativity building toys security things medical things we love the innovation and the ecosystem that's going to grow up who knows when but we're patient around that and we'll have a a great asset with this robotic software platform so there are things like PC phone and robot were I the Microsoft choice is to go for the variety it's apples it's great there you know for them they do what works super well for them and there's a few markets like Xbox 360 Zune and this year we have two new ones the surface thing and this roundtable which is the meeting room thing we're will actually through subcontractors but it's our the PNL on the risk and all that for the hardware the design is is completely a Microsoft thing the the round table is that something even now store were you just we've shown prototypes of it it's that's the thing where it's got the 360-degree alright and all those it's like cisco has something in that market and HP too right HP has a very high-end thing that's a tiny bit like it but anyway alright you know you ever regret was there's something you might have wanted to do differently and maybe this all you feel like this happened after you left Apple something you might have done differently that we're where you could have had a much bigger market share for the Mac well before I answer that let me make a comment on Bill's answer there which is it's very interesting in the consumer market and the enterprise market they're they're very different spaces and in the consumer market at least I think one can make a pretty strong case that outside of Windows on PCs it's hard to see other examples of the software and hardware being decouple working super well yet it might in the phone space over time it might but it's not clear it's not clear you can see a lot more examples of the hardware software coupling working well and so I think this is this is one of the reasons we all you know come to work every day is because nobody knows the answer to some of these questions and we'll find out over the coming years maybe both will work fine yeah and maybe they won't yeah it's good and it's good to try both approaches in some product categories take music players this the solo design worked better and the PC market the variety of designs at this stage has a higher share it has a higher share yeah there's a lot higher J well it's not that much different music players the other way around some is there some moment you feel like I should have done this or Apple should have done that and we could have had oh if not this idea of these hardware software integration and it's working very well made there's a lot of things that happens that I'm sure I could have done better when I was at Apple the first time and a lot of things that happened after I left that I thought were wrong turns but it doesn't matter it really doesn't matter and you kind of gotta let go of that stuff and you know we are where we are so we tend to look forward and you know one of the things I did when I got back to Apple 10 years ago was I I gave the museum to Stanford and all the papers and all the old machines and kind of cleared out the cobwebs and said let's stop looking backwards here it's all about what happens tomorrow and yeah because you can't you can't look back and say well gosh you know I wish I hadn't gotten fired I wish I was there I wish this I wish that it doesn't matter and so let's go invent tomorrow rather than worrying about what happened yesterday let's talk about we're gonna talk a little bit tomorrow but let's talk about today the landscape of how you see the different players in the market and how you you look at what's developing now what is surprised both of you since having been around for so long and still very active and everything I mean your companies are still critically key companies but there are many many companies that are becoming quite powerful how do you look at the landscape at this moment and what's happening especially in the internet space I think it's super healthy right now I think there's a lot of a lot of young people out there building some great companies who want to build companies who aren't just interested in starting something and selling it to one of the big guys but who want to build companies and I think there's some some really exciting companies getting built out there some next-generation of stuff that that you know some of us play catch-up with and and you know some of us find ways to partner with and things like that but there's a lot of activity out there now wouldn't you say yeah I'd say it's a healthy period the the notion of what the new form factors look like what natural interface can do the ability to use the cloud the Internet to do part of the task in a complimentary way to the local experience there's a lot of invention that the whole approach of startups the existing companies who do research it will look back that this is one of the the great periods of invention I think so too there's a lot of things that that are that are risky right now which is always a good sign you know and you can see through them you can see to the other side and go yes this could be huge but there's a period of risk that you know nobody's ever done it before I do but I can't say okay and so but but I can't say when you feel like that that's a great thing that's what keeps you coming to work in the morning and it's and it tells you there's something exciting around the next corner okay but so the two of you have certainly you're involved every day with the internet you have internet products you have a whole slew of stuff on the internet you have iTunes and dotmac and and and all of that but on another level you're the guys who represent the rich client the personal computer the you know big operating system and all that and there is a certain school of thought and I'm sure it's shared by some people in the room that this is all migrating to the cloud and you'll need a fairly light piece of hardware that won't have to have all that investment all the kind of stuff you guys have done throughout your careers so as much as people I think of you as rivals one way to think of you as the two guys dinosaurs we're both dinosaurs he or whatever I can talk about that No seriously is there in five years in five years is the personal computer still gonna be the linchpin of all this stuff well you can say that it'll be predicted that it won't be you know the network computer took us over about what five years ago we disappeared remember the single function computer there was somebody who said that these Gentle and purpose things are Kay and dumb idea so that's because we're the mainstream is always under attack the thing that people don't realize is that you're going to have rich local functionality I mean at least our bet where you get things like speech and vision as you get more natural form factors it's a question of using that local richness together with the richness that's that's elsewhere and if you look at the device say that's connecting to the TV set or connecting in the car there are lighter weight Hardware internet connections but when you come to the full screen rich you know edit the document create things you know I think we're nowhere near where we can be on making that stronger I'll give you a concrete example I love Google Maps use it on my computer you know in a browser but when we were doing the iPhone we thought wouldn't be great to have maps on the iPhone and so we called up Google and they had some they've done a few client apps in Java on some phones and they had an API that we worked with him a little on and we ended up writing a client app for those api's they would provide the back-end service and the app we were able to write since we're pretty reasonable writing apps blows away any Google Maps clients just blows it away same set of data coming off the server but the experience you have using it is unbelievable way better than the computer and and just in a completely different league than what they put on phones before and you know that client is is the results of a lot of technology on the client that client application so when we show it to them they're they're just blown away by how good it is and you can't do that stuff in a browser so people are figuring out how to do more in a browser how to get persistent state of things when you're disconnected from a browser how do you actually run apps locally using you know apps written in those technologies so they can be pretty transparent whether you're connected or not but it's happening fairly slowly and there's still a lot you can do with a rich client environment at the same time the hardware is progressing to where you can run a rich client environment on lower and lower cost devices on lower and lower powered devices and so there are some pretty cool things you can do with clients so are you okay so you're saying rich clients still matter but maybe I misunderstood you but your example was about a rich client that is not a personal computer as we have thought of a person what I'm trying to say is it's I think the marriage of some really great client apps with some really great cloud services is incredibly powerful and right now can be way more powerful than just having a browser on the clients you're talking about a software company being a software and services company rather than a I'm saying the marriage of these services plus a more sophisticated client is a very powerful marriage bill your architecture the quickly the question is do you run just in the cloud and all you have down locally is the browser and that is the same question for the phone as it is for the fullscreen device they'll always be different screen sizes because these are you know the eight the the five-inch screen does not really compete with the 20 inch screen does not compete with the big living room screen those are things that there'll be some type of computing behind all of those things all connected to the internet but the idea that locally you have the responsiveness immediate interaction without the latency or bandwidth limitations that you get if you try and do it all all behind that's what leads to the the right balance what does that device look like in five years what would you be your principal device is there one or is it is it a I think you use I could be wrong I think you carry a tablet right you right which has not necessarily stormed the world yes yeah this is like Windows 1992 I think that is I'm unrepentant on my belief okay but to go back to Kara's point what would you each imagine that you would carry as your principal let's say thing to do very light emailing all yes I don't know if you guys saw but Jeff Hawkins showed a linux-based a very small kind of he call I think he called it a companion to a smartphone today phone companion it sounded a little naughty frankly it doesn't matter you weren't there but what would you think you got each would be I assume you carry you you carry tablet PC I don't know what brand it is maybe you change them up I don't know you obviously carry a MacBook Pro I would guess or yeah well in an iPhone and an iPhone you have what I do right here yes he has when he took it out before what really flashed his iPhone earlier today ways your divide wouldn't what what's your device in five years that you rely on the most I don't think you'll have one device I think you'll have a full screen device that you can carry around and you'll do dramatically more reading nights off of that yeah I mean I believe in the tablet form factor I think you'll have voice I think they have Inc you'll have some way of having a hardware keyboard in some settings for that and then you'll have the device that fits in your pocket which the whole notion of how much function how much function should you combine in there you know there's navigation computers there's media there's foam technology is letting us put more things in there but then again you really want to tune it so people know what they expect so there's quite a bit of experimentation in that pocket size device but I think those are natural form factors and that will have the evolution of the portable machine and the evolution of the phone will both be extremely high volume complimentary that is if you own one you're more likely to own the other and then at home you'd have a set up that they all plug into well at home you'll have your living room which is your 10-foot experience and that's connected up to the Internet and there you'll have gaming and entertainment and there's a lot of experimentation in terms of what content looks like in that world and then in your den you'll have something a lot like you have at your desk at work you know the view is that every horizontal and vertical surface will have a projector so you can put information you know your desk can be a surface that you can sit and manipulate they and I please have a room in my house that doesn't have a screen and a projector in it you bet Thanks the bathroom the perfect place for it so what's your five-year outlook at the devices you'll carry you know it's interesting the PC has proved to be very resilient because as bill said earlier I mean the death of the PC has been predicted every few years here when you're saying PC you mean personal computer in general not just Windows PCs I mean personal computer in general and and you know there was the age of productivity if you will you know the spreadsheets and word processors and that kind of got the whole industry moving and it kind of plateaued for a while was getting a little stale and then the internet came along right and everybody needed more powerful computers to get on the internet browsers came along and it was this whole internet age that came along access to the Internet and and then some number years ago you could start to see that the PC that was taken for granted things that kind of plateaued a little bit and innovation wise at least and then I think this whole notion of the PC we called it the digital hub but you call anything you want sort of a multimedia center of the house started to take off with digital cameras and digital camcorders and sharing things over the internet and kind of needing a repository for all that stuff and it was reborn again as sort of the hub of your digital life and you can sort of see that there's something starting again it's not clear exactly what it is but it will be the PC maybe used a little more tightly coupled with some back-end internet services and some things like that and of course pcs are going mobile in an ever greater degree so I think the PC is going to continue as general-purpose device is going to continue to be with us and morph with us whether it's a tablet or a notebook or a you know big curved desktop that you have at your house or whatever it might be so I think that'll be something that most people have at least in this society and others maybe not but certainly in this one but then there's an explosion that's starting to happen in these what you call post-pc devices right and you can call the iPod one of them there's a lot of things that are not and get into trouble for using that term I want you to know that what I'm kidding post-pc devices why people people write letters to the editor they complain about it anyway guy okay well anyway I think there's just a category of devices that aren't as general-purpose that aren't that that are they're really more focused on specific functions whether they're phones or iPods or zooms or what-have-you and I think that category devices is starting is going to continue to to be very innovative and we're gonna see lots of I mean example what it would that be well an ipod is opposed as a phone as a post-pc device the is the iPhone and are some of these other smartphones and I know you make AI you believe that the iPhone is much better than these other smart phones at the moment but is the are these things aren't they really just computers and a different form factor I mean when you say we see where the phone it sounds like we're getting to the point where everything is a computer in a different form factor so so what right so what if it's built with a computer inside it it doesn't matter it's what is it how do you use it you know how does the consumer approach it and and so who cares what's inside it anymore what are the core functions of the device formerly known as the cell phone whatever we want to call it the pocket device what would you say the core functions like five years out what are the core functions of that pocket device how quickly all these things that have been somewhat specialized the navigation device the digital wallet the phone the camera the video camera how quickly those all come together it's hard to chart out but eventually you'll be able to pick something that has the capability to do every one of those things and yet given the small size you still won't want to edit your homework or edit a movie on the screen of that size and so you'll have something else that lets you do the reading and editing and those things now if we could ever get a screen that would just roll out like a scroll you know then you might be able to have the device that did everything you know in a very first D conference we had these guys from e Inc here I'm sure you've both talked to them they were talking about that that was five years ago it's always five years out do you do you yes we can't there's some advances in projection technology that are more likely deliver it I think than the flexible material guys but it's not even on the horizon no matter which of the two approaches are precise we have some Microsoft Research people work on that there's there's a lot of investment but it's at least in the five-year time frame you five years from now what's going to be on that pocket device I don't know and the reason I don't know is because I wouldn't have thought that there would have been maps on it five years ago but something comes along gets really popular people love it get used to it you want it on there so people are inventing things constantly and I think the art of it is is balancing what's on there and what's not on there is the editing function and clearly most things you carry with you or communications devices you want to do some entertainment with them as well but they're primarily communications devices and they're gonna that's what they're going to be outside of the computing area what are the exciting areas in the internet space at all that you're looking at that you find that's interesting to each of your companies and in general for for you any kind of social networking any kind of the wiki's those kind of things things we've talked about past couple today essentially you know we're working on some things that I can't talk about again again yeah but they're just very beautiful or used to be a saying isn't it that'll blow us away though I am Wow it's there used to be a saying at Apple isn't it funny a ship that leaks from the top yeah that's kind of like a sweater without sleeves as a vest I don't get that that was what they used to say about me when I was in my 20 there's a zillion interesting things going on on the Internet the most interesting things to me are these incredible new services that people are bringing up and entertainment or there's a lot of them surrounding entertainment but there's a lot of them that have to do with just sort of figuring out how to navigate through life a little more efficiently and I think you know it's really great when you show somebody something and you don't have to convince them they have a problem that this solves they know they have a problem you can show them something oh my god I need this and I think you're gonna see a lot of things like that happen over the next year or two do you you obviously have a very large internet business with iTunes and and you sell a lot of stuff on the in the Apple store but you know you were early with this idea that when you bought a computer from Apple you had this kind of internet service back in and was called dot Mac and I think a lot of people feel it you haven't developed it very I couldn't agree with you more and we'll make up for lost time in the near future and in your case you obviously have huge things like like hotmail for instance which is I guess and and Windows Messenger which are both widely used and I don't even know how many users gazillion huge numbers but on the other hand you haven't as Steve Ballmer was talking about today you know you have other people have much stronger positions and things like search and other parts of the of the internet so are you guys because you are the personal computer companies that are best you know best associated with that not as nimble as some of these competitors at this point you worry about not being as nimble both of you I mean obviously Microsoft's a much bigger company but you're a big company a Steve Apple is do you worry about not being as nimble as some but he's sitting out there with you know the kind of 10 employees that you guys add in 1977 well there's always gonna be great new things that come out of other companies and you want to be in a position to benefit from those to have those inventions derive demand for Windows and personal computers and then some of those upstream things you want to participate in I hope Steve mentioned we are going to participate in search hopefully to a higher degree and the future dimension then at present so we'll we'll see what we can do there a lot of the applications are more specialized so they're not areas we'll go into you know take what can happen with education now that video is mainstream and all these tools that let you do rich interactions are very mainstream I'm very excited about that you know the idea empowerment goes back to the very beginning of our industry and some of those dreams that this would be used by students or that teachers could get better and learn from each other in these new ways we've just at the threshold where some of those things can happen and yes our companies can contribute to that but as a whole it's the ecosystem jumping on and building on each other where you can finally say finally technology did something for education see I I look at this a little bit differently which is we're not trying to do a lot of this stuff because it's not what we do we don't think one company can do everything so you've got to partner with people that are really good at stuff like we're not I mean maybe Microsoft is great at search we're not we're not trying to be great at search so we partner with people that are great at search and we don't know how to do maps on the backend we know how to do a great the best Maps client in the world but we don't know how to do the backend so we partner with people that know how to do the backend and what we want to do is be that that consumers device and that consumers experience wrapped around all this information and things we can deliver to them in a wonderful user interface in a coherent product and so in some cases you know we have to do more work than others you know in the case of iTunes there wasn't a music delivery service that was any good we had to do one so we'll do one but in other cases there's companies doing a way better job because we're not as good at this stuff as other P and we'd love to partner with them and so you know we selectively do that and I think it's it's really hard for one company to do everything both entertaining the entertainment world it was important to both your companies for yours music right now and as you get into Apple TV Microsoft has been within the Hollywood area where do you see that going in the era of YouTube we've had a couple of network people here talking about changes that are happening in Hollywood and everything else what is happening now to entertainment delivery and where do you all play because you'll be the delivery mechanism in one way or the other for most people well the big the big milestone is where the delivery platform is the Internet and so you bring the richness and the interactivity I think you can get a little bit of a glimpse of the future of TV more from looking at community type things like Xbox Live where people are talking to each other finding friends you know watching things together talking about those things that if you map that onto genres like educational shows or sports shows or watching the Olympics of the elections that ability to navigate becomes very very powerful and we're not an entertainment company yes we do halo which is this big video game but by and large we're a platform and so it's the it's the top software things whether it's the speech or the ink or the deep graphics that's where things that take 10 years to get done the IPTV stuff the foundation there you know it took 10 years to get it done now it's finally coming to fruition and we have people like AT&T betting their company on putting that together so we're just at the start of having a a scale entertainment delivery vehicle through both through pcs unfortunately not connected up to the TV set in those cases but that's a point of innovation and now things like IPTV and an Xbox that are connected up in the living room if you were today bill you weren't here but Steve showed a new function of apple TV that brings YouTube directly to the TV is there gonna be more of that from you do you see yourself the way Bill says is an enabler of entertainment or well I mean putting aside your Disney role but your app I mean I think I think people want to enjoy their entertainment when they want it and how they want it on the device that they want it on so ultimately that's gonna drive the entertainment companies into all sorts of different business models and that's a good thing I mean if you're a Content company that's a great thing more people wanting to you know enjoy your content more often in more different ways that's that's why you're in business but the transitions are hard sometimes and you know the music industry it turned out that the internet got fast enough to download songs pretty easily there was no legal alternatives and and maybe they made some bad choices and how they reacted to that but you know they're still trying to make the transition to a very different way of doing business or ways of doing business while they're under attack from piracy and we can all highlight some of the mistakes that have been made but you know still it's a tough job and a Hollywood I think you know is watched what's happened in music learn some things to do some things not to do but you know they're still trying to map this out how do they make some of these transitions some new business models different platforms allowing their their customers way more freedom on when they want to watch stuff and how they want to watch it and I think there's a tremendous amount of experimentation and thought going on that's gonna be good it's gonna be really good if you're a Content owner can I ask about the user interface of the personal computer for a minute Vista has just come out which is your best version windows you've done has some UI improvements in it you're about to do yet another version of the Mac OS called Leopard and in the fall which from what you've shown publicly at least so far has it has some improvements but fundamentally these are still the kind of file icon folder icon drop down menu I know I'm maizing there's a lot of other things there's gadgets and widgets and all kinds of other cool things in there now but it you know there you can see that it's still all built on what you started with what Xerox did research on is there a in the offing in the next four or five years is it possible there's a new paradigm for organizing the user interface of the personal computer let's leave cellphones and things out for a minute but just the personal computer bill one of the things that's been anticipated for a long time is when 3d comes into that interface and there was a lot of experimentation sites on the internet where you'd kind of walk around and meet people but in fact the richness the speed it just didn't sustain itself now we're starting to see with some of the mapping stuff a few of the sites that the quality of that graphics the tools and things are getting to the point where 3d can really come in so I definitely say that when you go to a store book store you'll be able to see the books lined up you know the way you might be interested in or lined up the way they are in the real store so 3d is a way of organizing things particularly as we're getting much more media information on the computer a lot more choices a lot more navigation than we've ever had before and we can take that into this communications world where the PC is playing a much more central role kind of taking over what that was the PBX sort of one of the last mainframes in the business environment that'll be a big change that'll come to it and as we get natural input that would cause a change and what about this multi-touch stuff it's really interesting obviously Steve showed some of it on the on the iPhone when he introduced the iPhone Steve Ballmer today showed a bunch of it with the surface computing device it happens although it's not part of our program that HP which is a sponsor of this conference has a multi-touch sort of display over here out in the foyer is this will this make its way in already report this kind of thing yeah will this make its way into let all it direct manipulation of objects with your hands and your fingers let's make its way into mainstream let's say laptop computers as a new UI or an additional part of the UI or is that just a well but go beyond the lash lies devices vision software is doing vision and so you know imagine a game machine where you just can pick up the bat and swing it or the tennis racket the swinger we have one yes no no that's not it you can't pick up your 1000 I see what you mean swing it you can't sit there with your friends and do those natural things that's a 3d positional device this is video recognition this is a camera seeing what's going on and you know in a meeting like you're on a video conference you don't know who's speaking when their audio only things like that the camera will be ubiquitous now of course we have to design it way the people's expectations about privacy are handled appropriately but software can do vision and it can do it very very inexpensively and that means this stuff becomes pervasive you don't just talk about it being in a laptop device you talk about it being part of the meeting room or the living room or but on the laptop the way that we and and you know maybe I'm wrong maybe this is what we have is great and we don't need any new big radical change but when I turn on my laptop whether it's my Vista laptop or my Mac laptop you know it's it's kind it there have been improvements but it's a lot like it was 10 years ago it's much better the graphics are better and all that you talked about that radical you know you have the mouse your both your come have the icons you move around you have the I mean and you talked about what a big gamble it was in 84 to do that and then follow on with with Windows we still essentially have that approach and I'm just wondering is that going to change what touch ink speech vision those things come in but they don't come in as a radical substitute I think you're also under estimating the degree of evolution because you've lived with it year by year you know say we'd sent you away for 10 years and you came back and said wow there's a search paradigm and that's more at the center of how you find these things there's tagging that's more at the center of how how you find these things there's you know the evolution is a very good thing in fact even in that evolution the stuff we did with office you there's this balance you strike where when you make a change and this that case the ribbon you're gonna have some users who feel like oh geez I have to spend a little bit time to be brought along to that you know as but there has been good evolution but these natural interface things or the revolutionary change and they'll be very revolutionary that together with a 3d that I talked about I know you're working on something it's gonna be beautiful we'll see it yeah you know I can't talk about it but the bill discusses all his secret plans you don't have to say me I know it's not fair but it's um I think the question of the question is a very simple one which is how much of the really revolutionary things people are gonna do in the next five years are done on the PCs or how much of it is really focused on the post-pc devices and there's a real temptation to focus it on the post-pc devices because it's a clean slate and because there are more focused devices and because they don't have you know they don't have a legacy of these zillions of apps that have to run and zillions of markets and so I think there's gonna be tremendous revolution in the in the you know and the experiences of the post-pc devices and the question is how much they do in the PCs and I think I'm sure Microsoft is we're working on some really cool stuff but some of it has to be tempered a little bit because you do have you know these tens of millions in our case or hundreds of millions in bills case users that are familiar with something that you know they don't want a car with six wheels they like a car with four wheels they don't want to drive with a with a with a with a joystick they like the steering wheel and so you know you have to as bill was saying in some cases you have to augment what exists there and in some cases you can replace things but I think the radical rethinking of things is going to happen in a lot of these post-pc devices I mean is it more personal question you we have a just a minute before we were gonna open up for questions what's the greatest I'm not gonna call this the Barbara Walters moment and asked you what tree you'd like to be but what you would love to be Bevan Walters let me just tell you no I would not what's the greatest misunderstanding right but thank you Steve about your relationship I mean you're obviously gonna go down in history history books already said kind of thing but what's the greatest misunderstanding between you and your relationship and about each other what would you say would be this idea of catfight this idea of what which one of the many we've kept our marriage secret for over a decade now Canada that trip to Canada [Laughter] was there I don't think either of us have anything to complain about in general and I know that the the projects like the Mac project you know was just an incredible thing a fun thing where we were taking a risk we did look a lot younger in that video we did you look 12 and that's what how I try and what was 12 but no it's been fun to work together and I actually kind of miss some of the people aren't around anymore you know people come and go in this industry it's nice when somebody sticks around and they have some context of all the things that have worked and not worked and the industry gets all we're all crazy about some new thing you know like you know the the there's always this paradigm of the company that successful is going to go away and stuff like that it's nice to have people who've seen the waves and waves of that and yet been willing when it when it counted to take the risk to bring in something new has it been important you did that one last question and then we'll we'll go to the I thought that was your answer you know when Bill and I first met each other and worked together in the early days generally we were both the youngest guys in the room right individually or together I'm about six months older than he is but roughly the same age and now when we're working at our respective companies I know about you but I'm the oldest guy in the room most of the time and that's why I love being here so happy to oblige happy to oblige and uh you know I think of I think if most things in life is either a Bob Dylan or a Beatles song but there's that that one line and that one Beatles song you and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead and that's that's clearly true here well you know what I think we should end it there let's just end it there right here thank you thank you very much [Applause] Oh whoa Wow okay so on some audience questions questions can we have the lights Roger man Roger from elevation partners hey guys that was that was incredible thank you very much we've got a big election coming up next year I'm curious if there are any issues that you see in Silicon Valley that we all ought to be focused on communicating effectively to the next potential president in United States that is any common ground that we share cuz it's weird you don't actually hear any issues that people are talking about right now I'm curious if you guys have any in mind yeah well certainly education is one that I'd put at the top of the list you know is are there technological solutions right now that they could do something about or is that just sort of like now that the technology is going to be helpful and more and more but the way that teachers are measured and and made excellence the way that the high schools are designed the expectations they have it's it's not just a pure technology thing it's more an institutional practice where the opportunity is and you know there should be a lot of debate about the different ways of doing that boy we've got some pretty big problems and I think most of them are much bigger than anything Silicon Valley can contribute right now to solve so hopefully some of those will get solved I also think we underestimate how much all of our industry depends on stability we've enjoyed it you know a long period of stability and we've we've been able to focus on on technology and growing our businesses and stuff and and and I think we take that for granted sometimes one of the more interesting areas that we all suffer from of course is in the area of energy dependence and there's a lot of work going on I know a lot of investing going on anyway I don't know if the results are there but a lot of investing going on in alternative energy and maybe maybe Silicon Valley can play a small role in some of that personally some which might be a lot a billion here there are you investing in that area no we're just a pre okay yeah just appreciating over there hi Donna cleanse Sony Pictures my question is really at what point is there too much diversity it was talked about a few times in the discussion the fact that now micro processors are very low cost memories low cost software is is Vic witness but you know my life has been made better by standards like coding standards Network standards and it seems like we're reaching a point where diversity is starting to to take hold to a point where we're not going to be able to have the kinds of convergence devices that I think everyone would really be able to appreciate and I'm wondering you know is this gonna be like like healthcare or mass transit where you just can never put it back in the bottle again and I'd like to get your perspective on that if there's still an opportunity to have some grand convergence devices that can really simplify people's lives and enrich their lives speak well I think bill and I would agree that we can get it down to two ya know I think there's a it's hard to it's hard to limit imagination and innovation I think there's always gonna be a bunch of new great things but and I think that's part of what we put up with to get the innovation we put up with a little bit of aggravation to get the innovation and I think the marketplace is awfully good at allowing diversity when it should and then getting rid of it when it shouldn't I mean and then letting it come back sometimes yeah yeah I mean in terms of standards and things ain't there so the internet standards have been incredibly powerful you know video formats things like this and so I I don't see things that are gonna really hold back a convergence device you know sure there's a lot Wireless approaches but that's pretty healthy right now they each have various merits a few of them will end up overlapping the other ones and kill the other ones out but well I think the industry's done very well at latching on standards for the things that there were no longer any innovation in and then focusing on the places where the it wasn't clear which approach was was best Jesse hi I'm Jesse Kornbluth head butler comm because you're not the youngest guys in the room anymore it's perhaps appropriate to ask you a question about legacy each of you bill even your harshest critic would have to admit that your philanthropy work is you know planet shaking incredible and could could be if you make it a second act so amazing that it would dwarf what you've actually done at Microsoft if you had to choose a legacy what would it be and Steve do you look at Bill and you think gee that guy is so lucky he had a company so rich with talent that he didn't have to personally you know come in every day and and save it and you know I wish I had the opportunity well the most important work I got a chance to be involved in no matter what I do is the personal computer you know that's what I grew up you know my teens by 20s my 30s you know I even knew not to get married because I was so until later because I was so obsessed with it that's my life's work and I it's lucky for me that some of the skill skills and resources that I'd put skills first that I was able to develop through those experiences can be applied to the benefit of the the people who haven't had technology including Madison working for them so it's an incredible blessing to have to things like that but the thing that I'll you know might if you look at my brain it's filled with software and you know the magic of software and a bleep in software and you know that that's not going to change so your question was about whether I wish I didn't have to go into Apple every day you know if you if if you envy bill a bit the second act that he has oh no I think it's grilled I think the world is a better place because bill realized that his goal isn't to be the richest guy in the cemetery right that's a good thing and so he's doing a lot of good with the money that he made you know I'm sure bill was was like me in this way I mean I grew up fairly middle class lower middle class and and and I never really cared much about money and Apple was so successful early on in life that I I was very lucky that I didn't have to care about money then and so I've been able to focus on work and then later on my family and I sort of look at us as to the luckiest guys in the planet because we found what we loved to do and we were at the right place at the right time and we've gotten to go to work every day with super bright people for 30 years and and do what we love doing and so it's hard to be happier than that you know that your family and that what more can you ask for and so I don't think about legacy much I just think about being able to get up every day and go in and hang around these great people and hopefully create something that other people will love as much as we do and if we could do that that's that's that's great yeah like Stephenville rob kelly I'm here with my business partner we've got a hundred person internet media business I'm wondering what would be the single most valuable piece of advice you'd give us to even attempt to create some of the value that you guys have done in both your very impressive companies I think actually maybe in both cases correct me if I'm wrong the the excitement wasn't really seeing the economic value you know even when we wrote down at Microsoft in 1975 a computer on every desk in every home we didn't realize Oh we'll have to be a big company every time I thought oh god can we double in size jeez can you manage that many people will that feel fun still you know and so every doubly was like okay this is the last one and so the economic thing wasn't for at the forefront the the idea of being at the forefront and see new things and things we wanted to do and bringing in being able to bring in different people who are fun to work with eventually with a pretty broad set of skills and figuring out how to get those people those broad skills to work well together has been one of the greatest challenges you know I've made more of my mistakes and that are you maybe then than any anywhere but you know eventually getting some of those teams to work very well together so it's you know I think it's a lot about the people and the the passion and it's amazing that the business worked out the way that it did yeah people say you you have to have a lot of passion for what you're doing and it's totally true and the reason is is because it's so hard that if you don't any rational person would give up it's really hard and you have to do it over a sustained period of time so if you don't love it if you're not having fun doing it you don't really love it you're gonna give up and that's what happens to most people actually if you really look at at the ones that ended up you know being successful unquote in the eyes of society and the ones that didn't oftentimes it's the ones that are successful loved what they did so they could persevere well you know when it got really tough and and the ones that didn't love it quit because they're saying right who would want to put up with this stuff if you don't love it so it's a lot of hard work and and it's a lot of worrying constantly and if you don't love it you're gonna fail so you got to love it you got to have passion and I think that's the high-order bit the second thing is you've got to be you've got to be a really good talent scout because no matter how smart you are you need a team of great people and you've got to figure out how to how to size people up fairly quickly make decisions without knowing people too well and hire them and you know see how you do and refine your intuition and be able to to help you know build an organization that can eventually just you know build itself because you need great people around you historical curiosity you approach the same opportunity so very differently what did you learn about running your own business that you wish you had thought of sooner or thought of first by watching the other guy well I'd give a lot to have Steve's taste he has natural that not a joke at all I think in terms of intuitive taste both for people and products you know we we sat in Mac product reviews where there were questions about software choices how things would be done that I viewed as an engineering question you know and and you know that's just how my mind works and I'd see Steve make the decision based on a sense of people and product that you know it's even hard for me to explain he the way he does things it's just different and you know I think it's magical and in that case Wow you know because woz and I started the company based on doing the whole banana we weren't so good at partnering with people and you know actually the funny thing is Microsoft's one of the few companies we were able to partner with that actually worked for both companies and we weren't so good at that as where as where bill and Microsoft were really good at it because they they didn't make the whole thing in the early days and they they they learned how to partner with people really well and I think if Apple could have had that a little more of that in his DNA it would have served it extremely well and and I don't think Apple learned that until you know several a few decades later last question oh I'm sorry over here yeah hi Charlie runner from fidelity investments in our financial services industry we are focusing very strongly on ageing and retiring baby boomers a huge demographic or not that old the question is different from what it sounds like it's going to be but most of the innovation that we see coming from computer and internet companies is kind of youth oriented and I'm just wondering if there are activities going on in your companies acknowledging what's going O happening generationally not true I'll give you one example so we started building in video cameras and almost all our computers a few years ago and the response by people of all ages but in particular seniors has been off the charts because they're buying these things now and they're buying them for their grand their grandkids their sons and daughters with their grandkids so they can stay in touch with their grandkids and their videoconferencing more than then younger people are and it's it's incredible what this is done so that's just one simple example but there's like dozens of them that have clicked with you know seniors that are living independently that want to stay in touch with extended families and do other things like that yeah I think that it's a very good point when you look at the size of the market and that's partly why it's great that there are all these companies out there who can see ok what would you do for seniors I think natural user interface is particularly applicable here because the keyboard you know we're sort of warped and that we grew up using the keyboard and so it's extremely natural to us but things like and and that's partly why when we showed the surface computer I showed it privately to a bunch of CEOs a couple weeks ago I was kind of stunned by how blown away they were but the their ease of navigation is just not the same and when they saw that the idea that they could organize their photo album - then - it meant more to them than it did to me I'll give you another example we've got a little shy of 200 retail stores now and one of the things the stores are doing is personal training now it's called one-to-one and we are up to now a run rate of a million personal training sessions they last an hour per year a million per year you only started a little while ago right yeah we started about a year ago and we're up to a million training sessions a year run right now and a lot of those folks are some of them anyway many of them are seniors and they're coming in and they're spending an hour learning how to use office and they're spending an hour learning how to video conference and they can basically come in as much as they want they can schedule these things throughout a year and they pay $99 I think a year for it and it's been great last question now the last question over there we all share a common science fiction experience of the Metaverse or the matrix where we all could communicate without being in the same place and by the way thank you both for providing us the best platform so far to go to chat rooms or to all go to a MySpace it's a far cry from these things that we see on Star Trek at the holodeck what kinds of things can you imagine there are part way there that could be much better than the free window a chat that we might see in the next 5 or 10 years well I don't like steams gonna announce his transporter I want Star Trek just give me Star Trek I think short of the transporter most things you see in science fiction are in the next decade the kinds of things you'll you'll see that the virtual presence the the virtual world that both represents what's going on in the real world and represents whatever people are interested in this you know movement in space is a way of interacting with the machine I think the deep investments that have been made at the research level will pay off with these things in in the next 10 years I don't know and that's what makes it exciting to go into work every day because there's as we talked about earlier this is an extraordinarily exciting time in the industry and lots of new stuff happening so it you know I can't begin to think of what its gonna be like ten years from now thank you so much [Applause]

Channel: z400racer37

Views: 1,024,981

Rating: 4.8784685 out of 5

Keywords: Steve, Jobs, Bill, Gates, All, Things, Digital, D5, ipad, imac, mac, Macintosh, Apple, computers, Walt, Mossberg, memorial, AllThingsD, Pixar, Inc, Ipod, Iphone, Touch, Sergey, Brin, Larry, Page, Mark, Zuckerberg, Edwin, Catmull, Ellison, Animation, Oracle

Id: ZWaX1g_2SSQ

Length: 89min 35sec (5375 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 01 2012