Son of Hamas Reveals Shocking Details About Hamas and the Israel-Palestine Conflict

let's talk about your dad of course who was on the founders of Hamas I want to understand how this all happened so when you were 10 years old your father was creating Hamas and how did he start indoctrinating you I had always to run for my life like literally every day I had to confront monsters there was no day without being injured or shed in blood because of this type of fights and struggle for just my freedom if you went now would you be killed most likely if I go to any Arab country now I could get in trouble are you surprised by a couple things that the destruction in Gaza now people are blaming Israel it really doesn't matter whether they are pro Hamas or not what really matters are they anti-israel or not this is the more important question a lot of civilians from Gaza came through afterwards to do so much of the pillaging the raping the Arab Nation agree that Israel is the greatest enemy and Israel must be destroyed there is something that they agree on that Israel does not have the right to exist only a handful of people knew of this game there is no evil that can top this if you see him kill him this is one podcast I kid you not I I am really excited to to do because of what's happening right now of course with the conflict and you're the one guest that really can shed some light from the other side and have like perspective that probably nobody else that you know that I've seen have and so this is such an honor to have you and thank you for being on the podcast well thank you for having me and I didn't even say your name but this is uh this is the son of Hamas you guys his name is masab Hassan ysf is that did I say that right yes and uh I think we should start at the beginning right cuz I have a bazillion questions about your background and the evolution of your of how you became where you are now and so why don't we start the beginning for anybody who doesn't know who you who who has no familiarity with who you are so you're on masab who are you I'm a ghost yeah you really are yes well I was born as uh Palestinian Arab in the West Bank uh in a small town of from and um my family was and is still a very religious conservative Muslim family uh my father had the big aspiration to uh reform Islam to bring Islam back to the world at that time Islam was dead it was not popular and uh my my mother was the first woman in our town to actually wear a hijab so uh our family um has been uh a leading force uh of the Islamic revolution and I was their oldest son they had the big expectations from me um I went to the mosque at a very young age my father was gone most of the time and that was his secret mission establish in Hamas of course I didn't know as a child but I would chase after him uh for the dawn prayer some 5 a.m. in the morning facing the dogs wild dogs on the streets sometimes fighting with them uh on my way to the mosque so I can see little bit of him uh so you can say from very young age my father was gone um and uh I um had to fill the Gap uh I was there uh with my mother with our my siblings and uh I took responsibility for the family at very young age um but again I didn't know the nature of Hamas and what my father exactly was doing he would just show up uh in the middle of the night dressed up like an old man with a can in his hand even though he was just in his mid-30s at that time uh and I would wonder you know why is he dressed up like an old man uh but this was his uh ER cover uh so the IDF went uh recognize him and treat him just like an elder uh coming back from Hamas Mission or Hamas secret uh meeting so basically this is these the early memories of uh of me as a child um in relation to family and father mother siblings how old were you by at this point like what was your when you started all the Hamas when your father started you were how old so Hamas we're talking roughly 10 years old lots of things happen around that age uh yeah 101 yeah well what so before your death so let's talk about your dad of course who was on the founders of Hamas did you remember before 10 what he was doing before he even conceptualized creating Hamas what was he involved with was he what was he doing prior to Hamas my father was a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood which basically the mother organization of Hamas because Hamas is just a branch of the Muslim brother right that was my next question can you tell everybody really what Hamas is and what the what what the actual purpose was and did it change over time um so Hamas is uh the branch of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Palestinian occupied territories uh they use the Palestinian national cause to push their religious and uh ideological agendas um Hamas was established with the purpose of destroying the state of Israel in order to uh establish an Islamic State not a Palestinian State and this is where many people get confused they say Pro Palestine free Palestine but they don't know that they are advocating to a none National Organization because Hamas does not believe in politics or political borders we're talking about islamists who want to dominate The Globe and of course people find it very strange when they say but Hamas is very small and it's only the Palestinian territories how how could this be even possible so they don't see it as a direct threat what they don't realize that Hamas is just a sub uh movement belonging to to the biggest Islamic movement in the world and that is the Muslim Brotherhood more than 100 million active members worldwide including the United States including Europe and the Muslim Brotherhood inspired not only Hamas they inspired Al-Qaeda they inspired baddin if you look who's B ladin's Mentor you will find a guy's name Abdullah aam Abdullah aam was a the top leader of the Muslim Brotherhood so who inspired them is Hassan Al and say k they both hated the United States very much and since uh mid uh past Century let's say until now uh they spread so much hatred and there is no terrorist organization islamist organization that uh uh haven't been or hasn't been inspired by Hassan Al and say so basically my father is belonging to this leage to this Heritage of uh Islamic uh very aggressive very violent uh uh intellect Dogma cult whatever you want to call it so the Muslim Brotherhood then has all these spit like Hamas is just one of the offshoot then you have like you said uh all the other ones like is Isis one of the the Isis is not no it's it's not but they are all inspired inspired inspired like for example Hamas is the closest in its uh ideology philosophy to the mother organization but they are like other organizations that basically went sideways they went uh bit farther than the center of the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood maybe to even more extreme like Al-Qaeda for example the Muslim Brotherhood believe in infrastructure they believe that we have to have schools hospitals uh uh charity uh we have to have mosques uh we have to have dawa which is the Islamic uh Outreach right uh while the salafi jihadists believe no we have to achieve our goal but through Jihad and Jihad only we don't have time to go build infrastructure and invest all our energy in a society instead we have to just recruit members and go to Jihad directly they want to go to the use of force so the Muslim Brotherhood has different uh strategy but the end of the day they all have share the same goal which is to dominate The Globe create one nation under one religious and ideological banner and that is Islam so then if they're all they all have a different goal I mean sorry they all have the same goal but how to get to the goal is different is the difference but yet a lot of the a lot of I mean you can tell me you're the you're more of an expert obviously than I am I'm I'm definitely not I'm not a politician or an expert that's why this is such a fascinating conversation to me like Hamas Isis Taliban um all of the all the different organ all the different terrorist groups they don't like each other though even though they have the same goal in mind like if you if we if everyone wants to kill Israel why wouldn't that not be or like to to to demolish Israel would that that Connecting Point would make them unite but it doesn't correct they they are Rivals and uh uh of course uh they have a conflict of interest uh but there is something in common that they all hate Israel and they use this hypothetical entity that is actually non-existential it's exist only to them because they don't know what Israel is but as long as there is this common enemy where they all can hate this is their common ground this is their common Target and this what brings them together but trust me if there was no Israel in the picture they will kill each other right and do they do they kill each other even exactly that's why my my don't they are they fight all the time so even though they have the same common goal it doesn't seem to change look in the Middle East we have this problem tribal ISM and this is coming from the uh 7th Century mhm uh where a tribe keeps trying to annihilate another tribe uh until getting annihilated or having total victory yeah annihilated right annihilated so this is basically their uh this is tribalism and uh before Muhammad and after after Muhammad the problem continued until today you can find it in sh Sunni conflict hundreds of thousands of Muslims died if not Millions actually uh in the conflict between the two major sects sh and Sunni so if you tell me Muslims don't hate each other uh I don't agree they the amount of hatred within the Arab world within the Muslim Society is unbelievable uh but for the past let say 70 years they found a common enemy MH and that's what's bringing sh Sunni and the division and the subdivision of all this various groups with different uh ideologies uh to be United uh with a purpose to annihilate the state of Israel well look what happened like when this whole when October 7th happened and Israel was basically defending themselves and told the gazin to leave nobody know no Arab State no one would take the Palestinians not one Arab State wanted to take the Palestinians well Palestinians wherever they went they brought trouble you know for example in Jordan what yasat did he became a threat to the king he bullied the king and he interfered with the National Security of Jordan until the king got fed up with him and Black September have happened where you know the King buried thousands of yaser Arafat Fighters uh and yaser Arafat and his forces were expelled to Lebanon but in Lebanon yat went stay quiet he interfered with the inter internal uh issues and as a result of that uh the Lebanese Civil War happened where devastated Lebanon until today Lebanese people paying the price so wherever Yer arat or what so-call Palestinian Revolution moved they brought destruction they brought trouble corruption violence so yes the Arab countries prefer not to have any Palestinian refugee on their uh on their soil wow I mean I'm going to get to that part after I still want to get I want to really I want to stick to your cuz I want to get to how everything from how you basically your I want to get I want to stay with your childhood because I want to I want people to understand how you denounced your family and your religion you became a spy for you became like a you became a spy for Israel for 10 years I want to understand how this all happened so when you were 10 10 years old your father was creating Hamas and how did he start indoctrinating you and and you youve also have five what five we you're the oldest but how many brothers and sisters five brothers and three sisters five brothers and three sisters were they all being indoctrinated or just you because you were the oldest at that point uh well all of us were influenced to a certain degree but of course uh being the oldest son uh uh I had the Lions mhm um and um since childhood you can say I had a problem with the society that the Gap start widening uh there were things about the cultures that I did not like uh most importantly I didn't like the uh rigid uh discipline uh within our family and uh the religious class where I belonged uh and I have to say it's very very tough it wasn't uh an easy childhood and I like it because it taught me discipline uh and it taught me a lot about uh self-control and fasting at very young age during the summer of the Middle East sometimes was up to 16 hours no water no food and I was only still five six years old this is when I started that my entire life and would do this like an entire month um and if I don't make it to the most or I misbehave or I say something that was not uh respectful to the other Muslims Etc or violate any Islamic rule uh I would be beaten up by the family or by the family friends or by the Imam at the mosque or by the teacher by the principal by the uh even strangers on the street and um I had always to run for my life like literally every day I had to confront monsters and uh there was no day without uh being injured or uh shed in blood because of this type of fights and struggle for just my freedom and think that I was trying very hard to meet with their expectations not you know I was not lazy but I didn't know better I'm just I was just a child like what kind of thing would get you a give me an example very stupid silly stuff uh about uh religious rules that I did not understand so like take for example if I caused trouble at the MOs people were uh praying and I would just play around uh cause any noise that now is disturbing the prayer right uh and I was very good at that um the punishment was just unbelievable and my mother agreed to it my father was in prison at that time and the person who wanted to punish me was his one of his best friends and co-founder of Hamas as well his name is Fel hamdan and he's actually a disciple of abdah aam who inspired B ladin this what they had in common uh with them but anyway this guy was very very tough so anyway he invited me to his house in the evening and uh my mother said Sheikh Fel wants to see you would you come with me I was like yes for sure and I'm going just my the innocent child and we go after uh the the evening prayer to his house ER to my surprise I sit in the living area which his entire family was uh asked to leave and he tied me up to a post and I was like is this kind of joke you know he did not express any anger then I see him reach to uh the heater's uh cable electric cable this thick and he took it from uh the wall and the heater and he came from behind it just like he was as Cal and thought that the whole thing was just basically trying to scare me right until he start uh whipping me with the electric cable this is when I lost my breath I literally lost my breath my capacity to breathe and I was trying to inhale and I couldn't and he's not understanding that I could not breathe and he just kept going until I uh blacked out and my mother is watching the whole thing so this was an early memory of violence of that uh of that that culture and how old were you at that time probably 8 or n years old the marks on my back stayed for weeks if not months so this is the early discipline of the way you in that society and of course you know when when you push a child uh to the corner to this degree you don't expect from them you know that they are going to just uh praise the society afterwards was very violent it was not the first time or the last time where I got beaten up many many times in that and that's very common thing by the way and they even I can go a lot further with traumas that they are devastating but I'm not here you know to say that I'm a victim of that culture but I want to I want to know like what happens at that age because I don't think I don't that I don't think people know they don't they nobody knows nobody knows outside of me how it felt to be to be a child in that brutal culture so when you see the brutality and the Savages uh taking over annihilating everything in their way this is not coincidental it's a rape culture this is another dimension of it which I was a victim of it as well you were of course and I talked about it to everyone's surprise no one ever asked me who it was no one cared even though I was a victim of the most devastating crime ever and nobody cared to come and see like who was it or try to go get Justice for it so we're talking about uh a RAB culture a very violent culture then uh who was it it was basically uh someone I don't even remember their name uh it was uh a member of a family that my father entrusted I go with them for the Olive Harvest so my father was in there and before the dark came ER his family trusted him to take me home because we were deep in the mountains and they did not want the dark to come it would be dangerous uh for me to just uh travel and they wanted me simply to go back to my family so they entrusted me with one of their sons and uh what happened happened I ran for my life I was very small I think I wasn't probably like six 6 and a half no more than seven I don't even remember how I was was the around like the eight uh 86 87 so this is was was the beginning of the chaos you know and of course I I try not to mention this event it's it's known to public it's not a secret it's not the first time I reveal it but I try not talk about it because many people try to tie my uh position my moral stand where I stand today uh to uh the trauma of my childhood as a rape victim I don't like this uh thing because it's not only a personal it's not only what happened to me as a child it's the entire system that inspired or inspires culture the violence the sexual repression the way the society treat women which basically uh the unnatural way of um uh of living it's contradicting Evolution it's contradicting the human nature by the name of religion by the name of ideology and it's all hypocrisy and uh when we have a natural uh system like this that contradicts the human nature uh and uh where you know love making becomes a taboo becomes a forbidding then we have all type of social problems and this is why it is Arab culture so for me I always ask myself why did this happen to me why did this happen to me and why is it happening to many children in the Middle East and why and you can ask uh those who know who have the statistics and it's only intelligence Services who have the the actual numbers or let's say a Clear Vision uh or view of what's happening to children in the Arab world uh and the rest they don't care and they don't have actually access because many of the rape victims they don't talk about their uh their trauma because it's very shameful even today as an adult I'm a very strong man and immediately uh somebody would say oh he's [ __ ] up because it's nobody many rape victims they don't want to say right because you become the victim and now we everybody wonders like okay how how bad how devastating was that trauma to this individual and uh most people prefer to stay silent because they are ashamed or because they afraid of the consequences who's going to marry them who's going to accept them uh who's going to befriend them uh so this is this is another uh struggle that rape victims have to go with not only on a physical spiritual and emotional level especially when uh when they are very young so for me that that opened many questions about reality about God because one of the things was there when I did not find my father around for help I looked for for the superior power MH and as a child I asked for help but it did not come well first of all even the idea though this happened to you right with uh the beating and the rape as a as with a being a small child and being traumatized that why would that not be enough of a reason to then you know to to to to basically turn your head away from a culture like that you're say you don't want that to be the you don't want that to be the reason why people think that you've kind of gone the other way but is that that's that's a reason in itself to go the other way if that's part of the culture that you've been indoctrinated into yes but then then it will be a Revenge but what okay I mean I see why you're saying yes the if if my motive was Revenge uh many people will understand but what but this is not my Approach right not at all because eventually I had lots of power like uh maybe maybe the god I was looking for help empowered me in a way that nobody expected in that Society at some point I was able to bring armies in and out and I was able to destroy any opponent wow and I had the capacity not only to destroy my rapist I was able to do a lot worse to him did than what he did to me what did you do and I did not have hard feelings towards him period but okay so I want to know what you did to him to get for the re for the Revenge but all these other people these children who had the same traum traumatic experiences why like it can't be that all of these people just kind of accepted it and held it in and just kept on going like there like when you told your mom your mom that that your mother that Happ my mother did not know oh she didn't know about this okay I was very ashamed for a long period of time so what age did you tell people that this so the first time I talked about this when I was 28 years old uh and uh this is what I meant from that point on nobody ever asked me who was it no one this is how much people don't care uh and again I was able to take revenge and I'm still able to take revenge but but this is not that's not your purpose this is not what I want to accomplish I want to solve the uh fundamental problems that are leading to this type of uh crime and the part of it a huge part of it is violence and sexual repression I came to this conclusion and they're devastating not coincidental what we see now uh from the October 7 attacks uh lots of rape happened okay Hamas did part of it at the party uh lots of young women and many of them were uh basically partying and uh the Hamas people probably never thought they would be in a situation like this hence lots of rape happened at the party but there was not the only place later on many civilians from Gaza crossed the fence after Hamas had opened the fence and after their uh first wave of attacks and many of the rapes were committed by Gaza civilians not even Hamas members only so this is why when I saw the videos and I hear the stories I can totally relate to this problem because this this is a fundamental problem in the culture and the people can go on for eternity saying Israel is our enemy and Israel is the devil but they never protect the children from rapists and they H instead of fighting against violence they increase violence and they use violence especially against children where the parents beat their uh child the teacher beat their child at the most wherever they go so for me before you tell me the society want to preach me about Israel and this external enemy how about the child within you know and when this child is going to get his justice so basically it's this child Journey fighting uh for answers fighting for justice and anything that is not satisfactory is not satisfying to me is rejected uh if I wanted only to take revenge maybe I would get a little bit of satisfaction but my ultimate satisfaction is to fight the origin of this problem and every Authority that empowers it or stand uh stands behind it first of all you know it's interesting that I don't even think the majority of people even realize that a lot of the Gaz the civilians from Gaza came through afterwards to do so much of the pillaging the raping um and which then leads me to another question which I was going to I wanted to ask you this later on but you I want you touched upon it which was what is in your opinion of the the gazin the Palestinian people that do you do you believe that they are pro Hamas do you think that they are scared because of what the the repercussions where is their mindset because they've been indoctrinated from such a young age as you were they've been they've been traumatized all the rest where like what do you just by showing that most a lot of them went across to do all these atrocious things can you kind of talk about that a little bit cuz people separate the two like they're like Hamas is different from the the civilians from the other Palestinians is that accurate in your opinion look it really doesn't matter uh whether they are pro Hamas or not what really matters are they anti-israel or not this is the more important question and the entire Palestinian Society not only the Palestinian Society the Arab Nation agree that Israel is the greatest enemy and Israel must be destroyed that's the mass majority of the Arab world and this is where you need to focus cuz if we want to go into the rabbit Hall who do they support do they support Hamas do they support fat you know and there is a modate and there is Extreme and there is then you go into this Rabbit Hole you never finish mhm there is something that they agree on that Israel does not have the right to exist and this is obvious today in this war that we don't see powerful Arab countries publicly uh or at least let's say Palestinian figures influential figures that step forward and say we condemn Hamas atrocities we condemn Hamas genocide MH but if you want to go did they vote to Hamas yes a majority voted for Hamas has been a while so some people might argue and say this is invalid because the election was back in 2006 so this is why I don't even uh feel the uh need to go this route MH and we saw what happened immediately after October 7 they brought hostages teenagers youngsters infants and the people of Gaza were celebrating they're cheering it's uh it was uh a great Victory wasn't it when one of the hostages escaped for 4 days the civilians who captured him and brought him back to Hamas when a society validates genocide and this is practically what happened on October 7 by all standards that was a genocide committed by Hamas the ruling Authority government uh of Gaza and the gazan people did not make their uh position different than Hamas instead they gave Hamas cover they still give Hamas cover even if you want to forget about the gazans and think about the West Bank Which is far away from Gazza not connected to Gaza and they have a lot more freedom and they are actually the Rival party uh of Hamas they did not condemn Hamas publicly meaning that they're justifying Hamas genocide meaning that they are agreeing that Hamas Act of a genocide was part of what so-called resistance which in my my opinion it's not resistance it's not nationalism it's not self-defense it's only one thing and that is genocide idal attack motivated by very dark hatred and revenge and this is the tribal mentality I told you that is coming from the 7th Century because this is what tribes used to do to each other if they had an account to settle a tribe would go and ANH helate everything in their way take women and children as booty and sell them to slavery or enslave them and kill all men this is the mentality this is what it means the tribalism of the Middle East same mentality nothing changed when I saw a Hamas Savage holding a teenager girl from the Nick dragging her into a vehicle into the unknown that was the image of what Hamas is capable of doing which basically they want to dominate they want to take over territory they want more power and they want to enslave everybody everything that comes in their way everything becomes their property to this Savage that was not a prisoner of war as much as a booty a something that he owns now something that he can bargain for money for Mass murderers for whatever it takes so if Hamas approach was let's say if their fight was a political fight and they were fighting against uh military and there was a female soldier that Hamas had some respect they had some protocol to follow treat them as War prisoners uh to for exchange of soldiers been captured during the War I understand but you are capturing a teenage girl kidnapped her from a party into uh an underground uh City you built ER under Gaza to bargain for exchange with mass murderers people who people who killed and wounded thousands of people someone like ibraim hammed and abdah by the way that's also I got like we're going to be I'm sorry we're jumping around a lot here because I have all of these things written down uh about the The Exchange the 50 innocent civilians that they that they stole and grabbed for a bunch of Terror 150 terrorists and the idea that there's all these people out there saying oh well they Israel C had all these innocent people these children as prisoners what you can you can talk to this like you were in prison in Israel when you were a spy which we we still haven't gotten to we will can you talk about the fact can you explain what really happens in the prison are those people innocent my prison experience was uh an another level into this chaos that chaotic World absolutely we haven't even gotten to that but we again I'm just going by what you're I'm I'm going by what you're saying this is what we can do you know at at once just small uh that's all I can first of all my language betray me every time I try to talk about this uh Human Experience in um this chaos uh and I wish it was just a trauma of a child and things got better no things just kept getting worse and worse and worse and I was trying to explain I make this uh analogy of that the gap between me and Hamas just kept widening and widening and widening until now that there is a difference between them and me is like a universe a g Galaxy uh but my experience in prison was something very ugly and very different and that was the first time I saw Hamas brutality on a much bigger scale than the skill of a child than just being whipped or lashed by a crazy Islamic uh leader in prison they tortured and they killed hundreds of prisoners and that was my imprisonment back in 1996 my first imprisonment this wasn't the Israeli prison it was in Israeli this was the Israel prison inmates killing inmates basically uh Hamas security Wing trying to figure out who give information for the Israeli intelligence in the process they tortured they killed many Palestinian prisoners in the worst possible way 16 months in that term day and night the screams of those prisoners how can I how can I forget yeah we're not talking about just you witnessed an incident an ugly thing a fight someone got killed then you go and you try to heal yourself from that trauma talking about it had to live with it for 16 months and that's a monster my father helped establish I lost my father at a very young age when I mean I I lost him that he wasn't there for this project so I had the authority to question the heck of it what is it that we were doing that brought us here is this the project that he's getting busy far away from my mother spending most of his life in prison or leading a a secret life orchestrating this monster that I'm just face to face with in prison so that was that was the moment that where the childhood trauma growing up in that brutal culture all the Injustice all the chaos of the people that I did not like was something what happened in prison was something else and this is where I start questioning Hamas and not only questioning Hamas this is where I start having a serious problem with Hamas in prison and it was not accidental that the security Wing responsible for the killing the torture the death in prison where the military Wing leaders outside of prison so after my release from prison and the Israel intelligence uh approach me whether they knew my mental state and my hatred against Hamas and I thought that I was say I had a great potential that I could agree to the work whether they knew or they didn't know uh we met around the perfect timing where I was on a quest to destroy Hamas and that was not only because of the trauma of a child now it became just a matter of justice that the same group that killed and tortured hundreds of Palestinian prisoners in prison are the same group sending suicide bombers targeting buses schools universities beaches uh killing everything in their way including Holocaust Survivors so when the Israeli intelligence approach me with a propos that hey it's going out of control this group uh sabotaging the entire peace process they're killing people indiscriminately it's your father's organization but still do you agree to what's happening are you going to do something about it and um they challenged me they challenged me morally and I was ready deep inside me I was ready to fight this monster and I agreed but how did they know like go back a bit because how did that even happen why were you even in prison in the first place how did you even become how did you even become a prisoner like where were you in your life that even happened to even be there right well at uh I got involved with one of Hamas uh military CS at that time I was the president of the Islamic uh student movement that was not an armed organization how old were you at this point I was 18 years old so but so even though you had all this trauma as a child and everything else with your you still were living the life that your father kind of you know wanted you to of course it's it's not like the I I blame let's say this bad guy but the rest were good then I blame let's say a big group of the movement but they always my father was my model and my father was good so I compared everyone I say okay uh m of his organization are bad but my father is good so so I I was always the bond between me and my father that was keeping me in that realm so even though you had these you you knew that already that these everything that was around you was not was was bad you you had such a love for your father yes it's so he was you were like kind of like you're basically doing your family business like like kind of how similar how like we would iner anywhere else right like you were just following your dad's footsteps right so he said to so you became the president of the uh Islamic would you say it was the Islamic student movement okay which me which was what what was that what is that it's basically this is the uh a chapter or uh a branch of Hamas okay uh that is recruiting students at schools universities uh and that's a very important uh division of Hamas this is basically where the indu tration uh the early uh stages of uh recruitment so they start doing it around but what age would you say if you were 18 doing it they start with me personally they start as early as uh seven or eight years old and then and then right because you were the because you were the you were his son it's because basically wherever my father also went the summer camps he always wanted me to be involved uh in such activities uh so not everybody many came later but as part of Hamas uh leadership uh we were at a very very young age my mother all the time used to say uh you were born in a mosque she said uh when I was pregnant of you I never missed a prayer at the mosque you were always there even before your birth this is what she when she always wanted to remind me of my role uh of that so if I missed a prayer at the mosque she would be very very angry with me it's like you know how come you did not and that was uh um a very early 4 a.m. uh wakeup call that I needed to make it to the mosque regardless of what's going on outside the cold of the night the beasts on the streets the rapists whatever it is that if my father wasn't there I was required to go there and uh finish my prayer before the sunrise uh and this is before memory right like you're like a kid so then like at 18 now you're the president of the mosque you know Student Association so your job was to go into the schools and to IND doctor to get these other people other kids or whatever uh students what was your so how did you do it what was the process uh well there lots of uh uh activities uh I had lots of Charisma when I was very young you still have Charisma still have Charisma well it depends it depends some people maybe see it completely different um but as a public speaker I love to speak and I was not afraid of the crowd so this was uh my my strength and this actually what qualified me was not just being my Father's son I remember once uh there was dispute on a political issue uh and uh I was very young and very small in size uh in comparison to the other students who used to bully me sometimes beat me ER and um I I would defend myself but they they were a lot bigger and a lot faster and if they were group or a pack it was many times I just find myself uh black out on the sidewalk um after getting a very bad beat um but I they never silenced me and uh I remember I was 15 or 16 and it was a rainy day and the entire school was just uh packed at at the cafeteria and I jumped on one of those tables and I start talking to the crowd just with whatever I had challenging them with their hypocrisy uh with their um cowardice with their uh ER I would say misperception but I found whatever words there to just yell scream out loud fearlessly in a cafeteria and literally everybody was shocked because first of all none of them would have have or had dired to jump on a table and speak to the entire school like this um and he would drop a pen and silence this what it was everybody was in a State of Shock and that immediately after that uh put me on Hamas map and on the Islamic student uh movement map that with no time I became the president of not only that school but of the city of rala and I was only 16 or 17 years old and they were older uh students uh so and that got me in lots of trouble lots of Confrontation fights on the streets and this is why I'm not afraid of the crowd because literally uh there was no day without a confrontation especially with fat uh movement that's the Hamas rival party where we just all the time in fights I would come back to my mother bleeding or with bruised eyes and uh it just chaos chaos and so then what H so then you become the president and then what is your job then to do afterwards are you supposed to what is the process to get other people to be involved and to indoctrinate them into Hamas um so we got material uh from uh the movement from the Handler basically and uh they would give me thousands of books or uh magazines and newspapers uh that they were specially for the members of the uh Islamic student division um about the IDE theology about uh Islam about uh uh even how to become secret how to become uh ER invisible to the authorities and that was from the early age if there is something that I remember very well is this thing like for example uh if some if if there's following if they youve been traced how you're going to uh ER mislead uh the person who's uh pursuing you uh if how to communicate through a dead uh point which was you know we were just only students at school but many times when a superior in the organization wanted to communicate with us it was not even Direct ly so I would go to a dead Point what would they would call it deep in the mountains or sometimes in the mosque or in a u garbage bin uh whatever it is and there would be a message so I'd never actually meet uh the uh Connecting Point or the uh the person handling a certain issue because they did not want to reveal their identity to me even though I was a son of a top Hamas leader they did not want want to communicate with me directly and I was encouraged if I to communicate with others I would do the same thing so how would you do it you write a message to someone what would you do so basically there would be a dead point and this dead point I would how everyone know what the dead point is though so basically it would be a certain location um who picks it like so we I would be directed to uh that location uh through uh a medium so somebody let's say I would find the uh the message and the message would say okay you go to uh H this mosque and in this mosque there is um what's uh the Box you put like a dead body in oh I mean like a coffin the coffin yeah okay and the because funerals usually are prepared and they prepare the dead people at the the mosque so they like punch of those and they're not desirable nobody would go there and touch them they're scary yeah so I would be directed let's say at 1:00 a.m. in the morning to go into the mosque to one of these coffins and I would find let's say something there it would be a material sometimes it would be uh magazines it would be uh um painting for Gravity graffiti uh all type of material support for Hamas and their activities and the job sometimes would be okay you need to go out and uh make this statement on the walls of the city throughout the city so uh we would be required at age of 17 18 to put on a mask so they would provide the masks it would be like basically the whole gear available at this coffin but this is just like one example because we don't repeat the same location but this coffin they say you would find uh masks uh uh uh covers whatever uh some some weapon uh it wasn't guns at that time but they would give us uh knives etc for like to defend ourselves in case something happens and we were required to do such a thing somewhere between 1 and 3:00 a.m. so after everybody's asleep M so we would go like throughout the city writing Hamas propaganda or Hamas message whatever it is to public or even to the IDF uh so this was one of the things that I did at a very young age and was K and once actually uh I we we got arrested in the ACT but we were too young uh for Israel to keep us in prison and we were released even though I I I got cut with a mask over my head and Hamas material support and we were just doing some Hamas activity after midnight so basically um as you see you know the uh this is how much I loved my father and I believed in his uh in his cause and I I wanted to do whatever it took uh I dedicated lots of my energy to the Hamas cause and to um Hamas project this one when I criticized Hamas I didn't criticize Hamas as an outsider I knew a lot about them and uh I was considered a leader at a very young age and later on um I became my father's uh right hand I was responsible for his uh protection and uh I reached as far as Damascus amen Jordan abroad Gaza I never been to Gaza physically but most of Hamas leadership in Gaza uh was in communication with me on regular basis most of Hamas leadership in Lebanon in Syria and in at that time was Saudi Arabia was in touch with me because this is how they got to my father so I knew a lot about the movement and I in fact at some point I knew about Hamas um um op ation uh a lot more than my father knew about them cuz he separated himself from the activity of Hamas but I was literally in every thing that they were doing at some point not all the time but at least during the second Palestinian intifada I had few years that I knew a lot about the movement and how they were doing actually I was moving them uh but they didn't know that I uh what actually was moving them uh they the Israeli intelligence because our work was not just collect information uh lots of Hamas military Wing uh trusted me and uh we manipulated them like literally we give them money you know many people say about money yes there was lots of money but we give them the money to move from a place to a place and we set perfect traps for them and uh like at some point for example when I when I needed to communicate with khed mashar in Damascus um I had to send him a Hamas operative someone who who was trustworthy and um the Israeli intelligence did not like the idea because it was very risky but for me it was the challenge can we get to him because it was almost impossible to get to him and can we get a div device inside his office and uh that was something I orchestrated of course with the help of the agency and their cover and whatever you know we had to this one you were a spy this was like during the thing but it's all connected you know it's this Midnight Mission that I did and later on the uh dangerous missions that we did throughout the region uh the methods that I developed actually countering Hamas they were not just cdental it was all because I knew how they worked I knew how they worked and I manipulated those forces within their organization against them and this was the surprise of the Israeli intelligence that they actually had lots of information they did not lack information but they didn't know how to make sense of it they didn't know how to analyze it fast you would bring an expert right and give him uh piles of paper of documents it would spend months reading it and if you bring more than one brain then they are now uh they miss the whole picture it's like a puzzle and they have the missing pieces but for me I just had small amount of information that made perfect sense to me and I acted fast and it's all about time and time frame because if you act late means that a suicide bomber reached their target and it's too late now so basically did you save a lot of those things from happening you know I don't want to take credits for it because it doesn't matter it really doesn't matter and in principle if you save one human life it's equal to saving the entire Humanity because it's about the principle yeah but what really matters that ER Hamas or let's say that Community prepared me with such a rigid discipline system that it was meant to break me but it it didn't I just every year I became stronger and stronger and stronger and all the challenges that I had to go through on a personal level uh or from the society or political level or just being in the uh under the lens of the society for being the son of my father and their expectations it just made me into something very very different and I was able to function with uh you can say superc consciousness uh at a very very young age thatth even the might of the Israeli intelligence they were shocked of how I was able to just solve dilemma ER and sometimes it was very very complicated and sometimes all it took for me to just see two people sitting in the wrong place and I would see what they were doing and say it's like okay those guys should not be here and they would be arrested and that night we would find uh a dozen of suicide uh belts in their uh living room and everybody how in the world did you figure this out and I still don't have perfect answers to that so just being so deep in that culture that it's not like you know I I was they say filled with hatred since childhood and I wanted to take revenge as much as lived it lived it to the deepest possible level outside prison in school in the Islamic movement in the Hamas infrastructure throughout the entire indoctrination process and that was more than enough to figure out what Hamas was okay but when you said okay so you said you went to jail when you were in prison where then Israel was able to you that you were in prison for 160 months and that's when you saw the like the horrific things that the Palestinians were doing to the other Palestinians the killings and that's when it turned you to become a spy for Israel why did why did you even end up in jail in the first place like what did you do that what did you get caught doing guns you had guns guns I had guns y I had guns and uh uh we made a mistake uh or actually I wasn't the one who made a mistake but one of uh our s group uh made a phone call to my father's cell phone at that time cell phones were just very very rare yeah uh in fact in our entire town maybe there were just couple of them and my father had one of them so uh one of my um teammates called the phone and uh he said something and uh we were arrested right away wow but thankfully we did not use the the guns but I was not that far I was not that far from really getting in real trouble you had we used the guns I would be spending uh life term in Israeli prison by now wow and where are your brothers and sisters now obviously you don't talk to them or do you uh we are not in touch I have uh five brothers uh I don't know where where they're uh residing I assume one of them in turkey the other one could be in Europe the the uh the rest I think still uh in the West Bank um my sisters one is in Gaza I don't know if she's Alive or Dead uh she's married to uh a top Hamas leader who actually was released in the uh gadite uh prisoner swap just now uh you mean just a couple weeks ago uh no back in 20 2011 along with Y oh wow yeah and my father actually offered my sister to this Savage this guy killed uh three people with a knife in Jerusalem back I think in 1989 so uh my father after my story came out and I brought lots of Shame on the family his way to wash the shame of the family was to offer my sister to this Savage a top Hamas terrorist mass murderer and since then uh I lost contact with my sister she moved to Gaza uh he's a Target so she is so I don't know if she's still alive or she's she's killed and also along with their children who whom I never met so that's uh uh one of my sisters the other sister is actually living in Dearborn Michigan um her husband is originally Palestinian a doctor and uh it was an arranged marriage this is how uh how he took my sister when she was only 19 most beautiful girl you can imagine and they took my sister and they just disappeared and we didn't know where they were they phone number anything 5 years we did not hear anything from my sister and I was still working uh uh for the Israeli intelligence in the Palestinian territory at that time when I moved to the United States I looked them up I was able to find them it was not an easy Mission and I went to see her and they were very angry that I could find them uh because they thought they could hide he's a doctor yeah he's a doctor at public Hospital what what he thought that nobody can find him I know it's kind of but he's yeah he's an idiot that's what it is you know keep keeping my sister in some uh maybe basement in a Detroit uh or Dearborn Dearborn uh house and with no communication with my with my family very religious sick people so this is my other sister and it was not surprised this sister who's an American was the first sister to actually disown me she was the first one to disown me so just the matx Matrix of my life keeps uh expanding we we can never finish in just interview of how chaotic um my uh life experience uh has been but it is what it is how about your mom well my mother could be the only person in the entire picture who actually did not compromise her love uh when my father when when I wrote the book and uh the book is called the green Prince the book is called son of Hamas oh the son of sorry the movie is called the documentary is called the green Prince by the way I don't know where I want to know where you got the name or they got the name green Prince and the book is called the son of Hamas sorry the the the green the green Prince was uh my code name within the Israeli intelligence and uh this is uh talk dis finish your mom's situation I'm curious yeah so my mother disagreed with my father when he decided to disown me I told him about my involvement with Israel after I migrated to the United States I told him this is what I did and uh I wrote a book about it and the book is coming out soon so I wanted him to hear from me directly not to hear from the media and I had a very short window to tell him the truth about my role and I wanted him to know that I saved his life yeah I wanted him to know that he was a Target and the only thing that saved his life was my involvement with the um with the Israeli intelligence is that the truth this is the truth the absolute truth because if you look at all his rank even below him a lot less important Hamas leaders than than my father all of them were assassinated during the second Palestinian an but uh the irony that the Israeli intelligence needed him alive not dead because he was our access to Hamas if my father wasn't in the picture we wouldn't we wouldn't have access to Hamas so they this this what saved him and of course um uh whatever uh management that that I had to save him from himself not only from Israel from other intelligence services and from most importantly rival parties like fat who wanted him dead so I was protecting him not only from Israel I was protecting him from the entire world and most importantly from the poor choices that he made in his life and uh when I revealed my uh my true identity to him which I'm very happy and pleased that I told him in person because I did not want him only to hear person I mean over the phone but it was me personally communicating to him it was not a third party to's say a newspaper or a TV right or some other person and I wanted to be honest with him actually I dedicated the book to him I wanted him to see my life Through My Lens at that time I wanted him to see my reality uh and what what I had to witness as a human being um and especially that he had no clue what Israel is and what the Israeli intelligence is he just sees them as enemy and they Clash but he did not get to see them from within to see how they work and why they work and what it is like to be uh a democracy in the face of a terrorist group rather a terrorist within an outlaw organization in the face of a democracy how could you see the other side I was able to see both sides to see his organization and to see the most secret uh Israeli Jewish Community out there that I became one of them that their struggle became my struggle and we work together as a team they protected my life I protected theirs and our goal was to save human life lives uh this is the job of uh of intelligence service that serves democracy it's not to take revenge from people it's not to go after terrorist only for Revenge as much as go out for Justice right uh and with the most creative intelligent uh methods out there which was very impressive and this this is actually the true School of my life Wow you know where I learned um the biggest lessons about my self and about uh the uh human movement uh The Human Behavior Uh the structure of society uh reality uh false sense of reality and human delusion because we created the reality and we saw how people respond to it and uh their misperception was just mindblowing every time that the reality on the ground what we are creating was something and what people perceive it from from the from the outside were just insane the contrast of what actually was happening tell me what the Contra tell me the difference what was it what were you creating every operation we did every operation of every objective whatever Our intention was let's say to save one human life or to uh ER whatever action we had that resulted in an arrest or uh sabotaging a terrorist attack or uh sometimes assassinations uh or uh just a play that uh there was what appeared to be lots of violence but there was no violence like one of the examples uh we had to orchestrate big things I I cannot talk lots of uh this details because I'm not allowed to honestly but there is one one thing that I can because it's already mentioned in the book okay and can't you talk about the detail because because we um those are the secrets of the Israeli intelligence like basic I want to talk about no no it's I I have I'm under oath not to talk about this stuff I understand yes and um it's uh it's basically also given uh the methods of how we do the job to the terrorist maybe now they know a lot more than what they knew 20 years ago but always uh uh the the Israeli intelligence don't like anybody to talk about how they do the job but one of the things that I already talked about so we can talk about it I was involved in lots of operations uh in many fronts after many wanted people uh high-profile terrorists and many of them were arrested and um the I was getting very close to the point where people would become suspicious so how could I be the only survival like the Survivor the only one who's just getting away all the time but everyone else has been arrested or assassinated Etc so the um the Israeli intelligence wanted to do uh a play uh to manipulate uh Hamas security wing and uh basically um they wanted me to go to my house and they wanted to fake an arrest attempt but this uh fake play involves big army the entire city of ramala that everybody has to believe that I would become the most Wanted Man in the city how by the violence and the aggression of the operation that is about to take place and all of it was just fake only a handful of people knew of this uh of this game literally three people within the Israeli intelligence the Army the IDF had no the IDF had the command you go in the city of ramala tonight you're about to arrest a high-profile terrorist he's very dangerous he has guns if you see him kill him it's as simple as that so this is like the as bad as it can get uh for uh chasing a terrorist but in order to do this you have to bring Special Forces because you're going be uh behind the Enemy Lines so you have to bring basically uh the IDF division of undercover agents which they would dress like Palestinians they would go using Palestinian cars or other cars so people don't get suspicious of them they would come to my house my family house they surround the house secure the area so I cannot escape the moment they do this the big uh Army now would come with tanks armored vehicles Etc if there is resistance and shooting there could be Choppers and they're just everybody waiting so we're talking about big operation that would take millions of dollars to just move such a force and that's just to orchestrate a game to make Hamas believe that I was wanted that Israel was not letting me uh move freely they wanted me dead so basically uh but the arrangement was to evacuate my family out of the picture and to take them to safety so the special forces would come first surround the house then the Army come called my mother my siblings everybody to uh Evacuate the house they gave me 2 minutes before the Special Forces arrived to escape because it had to look like an escape and I get out of the house the forces arrive my mother is in the house they call for everybody and now the media come Al jazer other TVs come to cover uh this attack everybody see the tanks moving militia come they start shooting at the tanks and everything is uh on live TV and uh on the speakers they calling for my name uh to surrender while I was already sitt sitting in a safe house watching the whole thing on TV uh but the Army doesn't know that I'm not in the house because they are trusting the information coming um by the Israeli intelligence their own intelligence so when I don't surrender and my entire family is out of the house they shoot a missile into the house they destroyed like half of the house and in my room there was at least 150 bullets in the wall they start a crazy shootout killing everything inside the house when I did not surrender so it was a war zone it was and it continued for at least 5 hours of fire fire exchange with terrorists outside at the house then after that they brought the dogs they went inside and no one was in the house and everything was just a game and the idea of thought it was just a failure that they escaped but they didn't know how escaped they didn't know that the Israeli intelligence gave me the hits up one or two minutes before the uh the Special Forces arrived so special forces didn't know that it was part of the Israeli intelligence program they treated me exactly like they treated the Most Wanted Man in in the city and I was wanted uh bring him if not alive bring him dead is okay wow it's so crazy so so this is like one of the but like orchestrating something like this for example now this built my um uh trust with Hamas on one hand they became immediately obligated to provide me security so they had now to give me access not to all but to many many of their safe houses in the city the safe houses that we were trying to find for a very long period of time and we did not find where Hamas military wing top Hamas leaders hide um for a long time do you know where they are now like I mean I know now it's been years and years and years it's been years it's been years but well I know you wouldn't know specifically but based on all the experience that you've had and know the the thinking that goes behind all of it could you be helpful into like you know maybe it would be like you must understand the tunnel situation and how all that was but that was no the tunnels actually they happened after you after you long after I left and I never been to Gaza also right that's CU You' be killed I never been to Gaza just simply I grew up in the West Bank far away if you went now would you be killed most likely if I go to any Arab country now I could be I I could get in trouble but go but you said but you but the safe houses and like even in the US though like do you know what can you even be helpful to know what people should be even looking for what the FBI should be looking for because you have that mindset because you've been around it um most importantly uh if it was my field it was let's say uh the language I understand the mentality I understand I had a lead I need a lead you need a lead I need a lead this is the hardest part to find once you have the lead it's just a matter of time uh until you arrive at your target so as long as I have a lead it doesn't matter we will get there uh the biggest problem when you don't have a lead and this what happened you know that we were struggling to find the masterminds with send the suicide bomber attacks but when we orchestrated such a big drama which was very dangerous and they involved big army and we risked the lives of Israeli soldiers like literally I know and it was just fake so but that gave us access to the safe houses and within a year we uh destroyed Hamas military Wing in the West Bank like literally we destroyed them and we reached uh some of the most dangerous terrorists like ibraim hammed which took us eight years to capture him this guy is respons is convicted with U I think 65 uh killings but we believe that he killed a lot more than 65 uh but we could not convict him uh so he's in Israeli prison today and again as a person was part of the operation to capture this mass murderer we spent 8 years looking for him in a small town of romala less than 25,000 population and this how hard it was to find them and to today he's number one on Hamas list to be released in exchange for the hostages in Gaza so again and again uh this uh keep uh it's the karma that keeps uh repeating itself and bringing me back to the same individuals is well like sometimes when when people see me and they see me very very angry you know the way I speak it's a fight because to me the fight is on it did not finish it did not stop and it happened that Ibrahim hammed was the head of the Hamas security Wing inside prison torturing and killing the Palestinian prisoners in prison before he was released and he became the Hamas military Wing Outside The Mastermind behind most of the suicide bombing attacks during Second Palestinian antifada before he was captured then now ibraim hammed the same individual come back to the picture to be released for innocent hostages being held by those Savages after October 7 attacks so if you this why like for me try to just capture the Matrix of my life and all this chaos and what could appear as coin coincidence but it's not it's just something that I really I have the um it's necessary to deconstruct like it's my responsibility to destroy this thing called Hamas like literally eradicate whatever it takes it's not only Israel fight against Hamas it's my fight against Hamas is a lot bigger I don't have as much power but it's a lot bigger uh fundamentally and and this is why like I have to and if Hamas is not defeated I know we are going to have a lot more trouble in the near future are you surprised by the barbar the barbaric uh Massacre that happened on October 7th are you surprised by that is it do you believe that I was under I told was told that the uh the terrorists were on drugs because it was so barbaric to go to be that evil you had to be put on drugs do you believe that like are you were you surprised and do you believe that's true look I I I'm not surprised by Hamas brutality I've seen a lot but what happened on October 7 it was not a massacre I thought at the beginning was a massacre cuz I saw just some footage here and there I saw kidnaps I saw before I saw there was no suicide bombing attack that I did not see uh from H because all the time we try to I try to identify the terrorist who blow up and we we needed to know who was it uh to to see who sent it right and so I would get those fresh photos from a suicide bombing scene and I have to say one of the ugliest things that I had to see throughout my career for 10 years so there was no suicide bombing attack that I wasn't there like literally seeing the victims and seeing the so when I saw some of the okay you know they use explosives people dying explosives but what what changed the entire thing after I watched the uh what they call the massacre uh film the 47 minutes at the United Nations and my life would never be the same because what Hamas have become on the such a much bigger scale and how they developed uh is something exceeded uh my imagination uh their brutality on a smaller uh level is something but to uh move systematically wiping out annihilating everything in their way uh close to 20 Jewish communities where they killed uh everything ER not only humans but also animal raping blowing up things uh throwing grenades into uh shelters I saw a Hamas Savage uh throwing a grenade uh into a room uh killing a father in front of his two children while I don't know the children were different that they could not and just seeing that you know how the children survived but the father did not survive and the the kids were just looking at what just happened to their father it in like nothing there is no evil that can uh top this and as someone who fought against Hamas as someone who was with Hamas as someone who was born in Hamas household someone whose father uh established Hamas the the impact of just seeing that as as the outcome the creation of this monster it was just devastating I got sick I got sick in the worst possible way and for many years I protected my father for many years and I always different iated between my father as a person and the Father the Persona as a Hamas leader but after watching this I had to disown him completely out of my life even when he disowned me I did not disown him from my life you know about 12 or 15 years ago he publicly disowned me he said this is not my son you can kill him if you want this is what he said to public that my blood is allowed so that was his decision even when he did that decision I still loved him and I understood his position I was I brought lots of Shame on him and whatever he did is okay he my father I will always love him up to October 7th where I had to make a decision and that was one of the hardest decisions that they had to make that in truth there is no compromis now we Define the lines and we cannot just say Hamas is evil with one exception or uh this Society is is wonderful except they have a mistake here a mistake there no right now we have to define the lines and what happened was Pure Evil and anyone who uh who plotted planned even Justified a genocide a genocide that's not a massacre it's not only a terrorist attack it's a genocide by all standards and it's happened in the 21st century I had to define the lines where do I stand cannot be one leg here one leg there and not even emotional connection to that world and this is where uh ER I said publicly that Hamas leaders wherever they are should be executed assassinated and no exceptions and that includes Sheik Hassan YF do you feel do you feel that it's let going ask you a question actually a different question are you surprised that that they were even able to penetrate Israel as much as they were able to given Israel's intelligence they're known to be the most intelligent you know best army in the world and then they were not even able to even help their own civilians for for hours and hours and hours no one can find anyone did that surprise you it's uh not a surprise uh as much as it's uh the nature of um the um the Hamas deception because Israel considered the southern Community after they withdraw withdraw from Gaza uh as a Potential Threat uh but there was a truth there was a ceasefire a permanent ceasefire that was uh not host but it was um uh protected by Qatar by the United States and in the International Community Egypt included what else you don't bring your entire Army you to and stay at emergency State all the time yes it is the most powerful Army but can you stay at emergency State all the time no democracy can afford this people need to go do their work eventually and uh you can have a number of soldiers but it would be for very basic defense purpose and we're talking about musly farmers in in those communities so but they and they're plotting for so many years two years to do this of Hamas knew this weakness yeah you know thanks to technology drones and the help of Iran uh and other uh intelligence Services you think Putin helped because they wanted to take I'm sure I'm sure Russia helped Hamas at least G given them political cover at least I don't want to say more but Hamas had many trips to to Moscow and what the heck were they doing in Moscow what's their uh relation to the KGB uh so basically even if it was a surprise what are we expecting you know when we have just the very basic soldiers um defending basically the bases and doing just very uh basic defense job and we're not talking about now you know the entire Army is in the South it's an emergency situation well now it is but what I'm saying is like don't how did Israel like if they were planning and plotting for so many years why in your opinion would Israel not have known about it is very secret I I I know what were you trying to get with this you want me to say that there was a failure and there was a failure believe me I don't want there I there be like what you think no it's it's okay because it's not it's not shame you know it's uh again Israel um invest lots of energy in defense in security the intelligence service is the most powerful but this doesn't mean that they cannot make mistake especially when the enemy is hiding under the ground and the enemy um is avoiding to use technology and even those who carried the attack they didn't know about the plan until the last moment so Hamas kept the secret among a handful of people and that helped them a lot they did not use technology and uh there is a possibility that they sent the wrong messages through technology to make Israel feel safe um and they were good at that uh maybe there were some informants that they actually were double agents so they passed the wrong information don't you think that I would imagine that would be what would happened there is a possibility there is a possibility because in Gaza is very different like when I was in the West in the West Bank for example part I had to sit on a a polygraph test all the time like there was no way for us and not only me actually everybody within the uh intelligence Community who had access to uh sensitive material or operation everyone had to sit down on a polygraph test everyone uh in Gaza is a different reality and this is always was my concern I was like okay now you're you're handling that thousands of informants in Gaza but how do you know that they are sincere and they are giving you actually legitimate information I always ask myself this question because if you are not able to bring them into the Israeli territory uh and test them on regular basis uh your uh enemy could take advantage of this Gap and of this weakness and try to manipulate those assets and use them against you by giving you false sense of security or simply misinforming you uh then if Hamas was um keeping the secret not revealing the um er the plan they say the mega plan mhm to uh ER to Israel or to to their members then how how how Israel would know if they kept it in in the hands of just a few people so anyway it's very hard now to tell everything I'm sure there will be investigations of how Israel failed uh the the huge part of the failure that Hamas was attacking uh civilian communities and many of them looked like civilians and we didn't know who was who so how can you bring the Army uh to um rescue those communities under attack not knowing who's actually Hamas and who's Israel basically it was very hard to differentiate and uh this is another part where it the response had to take hours it's not that you know people were afraid to just drive south it's like how much force can you use without actually um harming your own civilians trying to destroy the uh the Invaders and I know you got a I mean I I've kept you here so long and I really apologize can I ask you a couple more questions sure um are you surprised by a couple things that the destruction in Gaza now people are blaming Israel what do you think of that like people are looking at Israel like it's their fault of all the destruction and in Gaza when in reality it's like they're defending now they have to defend defending themselves are you surprised by that are you surprised by the amount of protesting on the west you know in the west about the anti-Semitism in this in the universities what's happening what's happened I should say since October 7th and how much how many people are in support of Hamas on the West in the west I should say look H Israel is the victim or the only victim actually of a genocide this is what happened so accusing Israel of committing genocide while they are the victim uh of a genocide is not only unfair yeah it's uh absurd and so twisted and um uh like basically to take um I don't want to say aape victim and accuse them of being a rapist uh or being that's basically what is happen this is exactly what happened yeah that's exactly what's happening so basically Israel being accused of something that is suffering uh of and uh the gazans they gave Hamas Cava they supported Hamas they did not condemn Hamas they hated Israel uh they believed in the ideology of anting or uh having a genocide against Israel which eventually took place you for many many years tens of years since the establishment of state of Israel Palestinians did not agree to the the existence of the state of Israel yes arat it was tactical thing he he approved it on paper but that was ridiculous it was not sincere and they didn't do anything in the education to actually uh change the Paradigm or uh help the public uh accept Israel as reality instead they incited against Israel so uh the Practical steps on the ground uh weren't helpful to um to change uh this idea of the Palestinian society and the uh idea of annihilating Israel or uh ethnically cleansing everybody it kept yeah it kept growing and this is what we had to face eventually in October 7 it was was not just the day of October 7 it was just the whole process of indoctrination of political campaign political propaganda but how do they do it in the so so well in Europe in the west like the US Canada everywhere else beyond the Middle East people there's millions of people protesting for pro Palestine Pro you know free Palestine blah blah blah how did what like what was the Tipping Point in your opinion of how that happened where Israel the Jewish people became truly the enemy and the O you know the oppressor at to such a level now that's what I'm curious about did that surprise you on the in the west because you have like the lgbq uh you have you have the LGBT the LGBT yes Q thank you thank you exactly protesting meanwhile they would be shot and killed if they even entered right you know these these places is this surprising you the amount of support coming from that going towards that side and what what is that Tipping Point what happened to indoctrinate kind of the western culture to such a level um I don't want to say that this was a surprise because head doesn't know political uh boundaries uh and um it's instead of seeing it as Pro Palestine I see it as anti uh Israel anti-Semitism anti-jewish uh this is the opportunity of many people uh who actually uh HTE the Jewish uh Community uh and uh they have a problem so they basically uh projecting their hatred uh uh trying to inflict pain on the Jewish people uh and again instead of condemning Hamas for committing a genocide against Israel they were very fast to condemn Israel of committing a genocide totally uh twisted and uh this is uh this is hatred and uh they don't even know what Palestine is they don't even know you go ask for go ask people who are Marching and protesting saying whatever the river to the Sea they don't even know if it's a river or a sea they have no idea with they don't know what river or what sea they know nothing they and again like many they don't know even what Palestine is they don't even know what paltin is and this takes me back to my childhood you know where I got fed up with the cause you know cuz the cause everybody is swearing by the name of the cause and all the corruption all all the abuse all the torture all the violence can be justified by the name of the cause and for the cause and because of the common enemy so uh this is where I was screw this cause you know I don't care I don't care anymore uh first fix the basic things stop abusing children to begin with then we can talk about nationalism and the bigger uh issue and now it seems that this phenomena called Palestine or cause is an ego trick you know so many people need the mask now I played the game myself growing up and my father still playing that game that many people where is your father now by the way he's in Israeli prison he's in Israeli prison are they trying to get him back with the I guess you don't know with the hostage exchange I'm sure I I don't know I I don't think so because he's not uh he's not spending uh long life term he's not he's just uh temporary there what do you mean temporary temporary like he's not he's not spending let's say 100 years like how much is he spending there uh he's just uh six six months under administrative detention for what uh for just being a Hamas leader they can just let him out in they're going to have to let him out in 6 months yes yes it's democracy if you if you don't have anything to con to convict him you know this is how Israel and this is why everybody it's very hard fight for Israel that actually many of the high-profile terrorists had to be released because Israel could not convict them and if you cannot convict uh somebody how can you keep them in a prison in a democratic system and Hamas takes total advantage of this situation but anyway it's taking us back to to the cause that many people need the cause and what I see here you know uh Angry frustrated crowd uh projecting their uh personal hatred on this cause they don't know that this is the contribution of so many societies uh through and uh politicians uh ER criminals uh whatever you want to call it throughout the conflict called Palestinian conflict that any anybody could adapt the cause say this is my cause and try to project their hatred through this medium through this device called Palestine but what is Palestine we don't know is it a political entity is it um nationalism is it uh ethnicity is it ethnic group uh is it a religion is it all that or minus all that we we don't know there is no such a thing it's hypothetical it's just a very broad term called Palestine and when people go blindly say just Pro Palestine meaning anti-israel when they say Palestine from the river the sea they're not thinking Palestine they're thinking wipe out Israel annihilate Israel ER the total Destruction of the state of Israel right you're saying they don't they don't care what what they're saying as long as Israel's gone is basically the bottom line which means that like there's been so much anti-Semitism and Jewish hate just bubbling under the surface for so long and any reason or excuse to to kind of bring it up is what's happening so then the the next question I have for you is do you see a solution here where there is some kind of uh somewhat like some kind of peaceful solution versus the con the the the conflict between Palestine and Israel the ceasefire like where do you what do like how as a let me ask you this as like a regular civilian here living in the you know in in the US what can we do um to help our cause to bring to kind of show show people the way to kind of to to create less negativity towards J Israel or Judaism like what it or is it just a loss cause and it's just really impossible at this point what would you say first we have to eradicate Hamas we we cannot live with Hamas they are now a threat a global threat and if they survive tomorrow they will be a lot more dangerous so Israel cannot afford this United States cannot afford this anybody who's concerned of the Global Security cannot afford Hamas staying staying in power they have to go post Hamas I really don't know and it looks like no one knows because the United States hopes that the Palestinian Authority would come and uh replace Hamas this is the uh the easy solution but I'm not sure Israel want to do this because the Palestinian Authority did not prove that they are actually responsible um uh counterpart they break their word all the time yes and they lost control don't forget before Hamas it was the Palestinian Authority and they mismanaged big time they are the ones who uh uh failed their job uh to keep Hamas in check and Hamas had the coupe back in 2007 took over the Gaza Strip uh and it was the fault of the Palestinian Authority um so today why do we trust them again so anyway it could be best case scenario or say Bas scenario for Gaza it would be a moderate leadership could be Muhammad dlan or Mahmud Abbas I don't know who the United States would recommend or uh give support uh to uh govern Gaza if there will be any Gaza actually after this war um worst case scenario there will be Gaza with no infrastructure everything would be destroyed from the mosque to uh roads to uh institutions government buildings courts uh everything is being destroyed right now in this war and in previous Wars Israel helped the Palestinians rebuild Gaza helped the International Community the donors to actually come back to Gaza and rebuild it this time I think Israel is not obligated not after the genocide happened and Israel is is aiming now for a buffer zone where the gazans cannnot even get close that would take miles and miles and miles for them to be able even to get to the Israeli fence and this is going to be devastating for Gaza but it it will be necessary for the Israeli security absolutely and I so if but if this happened if this happened expect chaos in Gaza because Hamas has many problems with gazans and there will be time for retaliation where they want to get even because Hamas killed and tortured oppressed their rival party fat in Gaza and there is going to be a time uh after this war with no infrastructure with no police no Army no institution no building no central government of any kind Hamas will be just fleeing Force especially after their leadership is is killed so they will just fleeing force and there is going to be a tribal conflict where Palestinian internal uh Revenge will take place naturally and if that happens when if Israel is not going to take responsibility for rebuilding Gaza and I don't think Israel will do anything Israel is going to just destroy Hamas possibly build this buffer zone and say you know do whatever you want on the other side and if you get close we're going to destroy you but this could mean a Civil War in Gaza could mean similar to the Civil War that happened in Lebanon um and this is the worst case scenario the world is trying as much as they can that to uh to prevent this bad scenario from happening but uh nobody can predict 100% of how Gaza post war uh would look like but also Hamas is all over the world as you were saying earlier too they're heavily funded who is I mean as far as you know who is I know sorry I know I know I got so many questions for you I know can I ask you one more question then sure okay you said something earlier and I never asked you and then I won't to ask you about the funding right now uh you you keep on saying the word Shame Shame can you talk about the shame honor there's an honor shame uh part of this whole of your of your culture and we talk about the martyrdom are they offered money for each person Israeli civilian that they are killed I heard there's a whole thing called pay to slay is that accurate so the bases in the west are right and wrong the this is the scale in the Middle East is honor and shame very different value system and everything is based on honor and shame it's the honor of the tribe it's the honor of the individual and this is why what I did was what could be the most shameful by the Arabian standards to uh become a traitor and I became a traitor by choice it's it's very different you know when you catch somebody in the ACT then you shame them and they would lose everything then someone was at the top of the game and uh everything was going uh to my advantage then I turned the table uh table upside down and I said ER this is what I did I wrote a book about it not being ashamed so I was uh it was uh my big fight with the enemy of Shame guilt and fear this is those are the main demons that keep Arabians in darkness especially when someone see that this is the right thing to do but if you do the right thing you will have to face the enemy of Shame the society will say shame on you if I saved a human life and that life was a Jewish life shame on you if I stopped a suicide bomber from reaching their target to kill many civilians shame on you you know for doing this this is treason so and what is bravery bravery is to take to put on a suicide uh belt uh and go blow yourself up killing many innocent people this is Honorable in that culture it's praised a society that pra suicide bomber a society that's praising those Savages who killed many on October 7 committing genocide they're are not condemned they are praised as Freedom Fighters as uh uh sacred Warriors so in this type of society and this type of mentality I had to uh challenge the value system and say okay you consider this as treason therefore I become a traitor it's my choice I do it willingly you did not capture me and I am not afraid of your accusation whatever you think of me your Collective Consciousness doesn't matter what really matters what I know is right to do so if you look deep into the decision making and the uh psychology behind it and why I made such choice is this was one of the biggest enemies that I had to fight against and again as uh a rape victim I was ashamed most of my life even though I was a victim of that you know I could not tell anybody about it for shame so again and again fighting with this enemy called Shame for doing the correct thing that we should not be ashamed and we should always fight for ourselves fight the good fight I'm not talking about seeking revenge and being violent and I in no way seeking Revenge from my people if I wanted to do this I would be still there and I would be seeking killing and destroying but my approaches has been completely different that I need to find the origin of suffering and that's falsehood and that's the absence of Truth the absence of uh reason the absence of um uh Purity uh and uh when we we lose all the qualities uh the Divine qualities of society and we replace them with violence with abuse with aggression with manipulation with corruption with blaming you blam naming everything on something called Israel isra then we have uh fundamental problems and this has been my fight and it's honestly it's uh the fight within it's the fight within that I had to fight it truthfully I had to be 100% truthful to who I am and er not concerned of what the people are going to say even if I get killed in the process it's better to die in my pursue to freedom than dying in cowardice and so right but and your idea that's very different then the pay to slay is it Act is it accurate that people get paid yes yes but this is ridiculous though you know this is like the American artificial way of seeing things okay what's the point if you pay somebody and they're going to die what they're going to do with the money after their death for their family I would imagine no it's I mean money plays a small a small rule of this but it's not the most fundamental uh thing it's the human delusion when you honor it's honor System it's it's the honor System you honor your family it's the you become the the hero of the nation is the promise of the afterlife of what's going to happen on the afterlife and all the pro promises whatever it is but it's there is lots of pleasure and there is no pain and there is no suffering so why not just Escape all this suffering that is caused by those Zionist enemy destroy them make them feel uh the pain then after that just Escape all the pain together into a toia of uh absolute pleasure uh where all the things that they could not achieve in this life they would achieve it in the afterlife so uh this is what the recruiters sell uh the terrorists it's not only money you know pay to slay you know this is uh this can work in the case of a small crime uh group or organization but at the level of Hamas where they are able to mobilize thousands tens of thousands of soldiers who are willing to die for their cause for their cause and obey blindly you need a lot more than money to move this type of uh uh of dangerous people did I keep you long enough here by the way yes you did and it's about my dinner time oh my God thank you so much I I I I don't how long has it even been I have no idea I have like a million more questions but like you've been so gracious uh okay everybody I I don't even know you guys have to see the documentary green Prints but please grab up a copy of his book The Son of Hamas it is an amazing read he is fascinating so I mean you're also like you are a hero you really are I I I have to say The Bravery that you have the courage that you have to come out and speak your Truth uh when it is not safe for you it is quite dangerous and so I again I am just so honored and happy that I've got the chance to sit down with you to meet you to take you to Star bucks the whole thing you know so thank you so much for for being on this podcast thank you for having me I appreciate it thank you thank you and can go to sleep now cuz it's been 5 hours [Music] bye

Channel: Habits & Hustle w/ Jennifer Cohen

Views: 491,316

Keywords: Son of Hamas, Hamas-Israeli War, Israel-Palestine Conflict, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, Extremist Groups, Childhood Trauma, Religious Norms, Oppression, Tribal Mentality, Intelligence, Espionage, Manipulation, Charisma, Undercover Operations, Propaganda, Indoctrination, Violence, Human Behavior, Society, Terrorism, Anti-Semitism

Id: L0JP76-uE-c

Length: 126min 37sec (7597 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 12 2023