Sig P365 vs Springfield Hellcat

I got two guns one for both of you it gets one of each yeah you have to watch team stone again and drunk when I said it you drunk when you watched it hey guys thanks for tuning into n range TV we've got a Springfield Hellcat a little while ago and it of course is kind of a copy right well yeah that's a complete derivative of a P 365 yeah so when we got this we put it through this way if you haven't seen the video yet we went out and kind of did a torture test and this got a red dot it was zero perfectly out of the box and turned out to be completely reliable but what we didn't do was talk about the handle right because we didn't have a sig at the time so we now have a sig Peterik P 365 which is the obvious side-by-side comparing my goodness it it's a it might be a good gun in fact it does appear to be a good gun so far but it is definitely a copy of this so the question is which is actually doing it better the original or the knockoff yeah well all artist theft so it's done art well I don't know what a plastic metal thing is art but you know you're I'm going but yeah exactly so our Hellcat has a red dot optics on it came on it it's an optional thing you don't have to have one but the one who sent us did we're not gonna take it off the 365 XL the long slide version has an option for a red dot but we don't have one of those and it's not quite the same size profile so we do have a little bit of a discrepancy there which we are just going to in terms of size and capacity these are these are the closest equivalent right so the P 365 and the Springfield Hellcat are the same size the XL is a little bigger but that's the red dot option now there is the P 365 SAS which we do not have interesting that's a discussion for another day yeah this has one extra round in it this is 13 in this 12 yeah but what we wanted to do today is do some dry fire handling talk about what the trigger feels like general handling and then I thought let's go ahead and do the thing we need to do which is put some drills on the clock compare it one drill with that to this directly and see if we have different scores the same scores what happens all right okay so we're at 10 yards and we've got too many up stick targets downrange and we're gonna start at low ready which is pointing at this little rock behind us and when the buzzer goes off Ian you're going to very quickly come on target and get two hits on the Left argot then two hits on the right target we're gonna do this three times and then we'll have essentially an average you're gonna start with the P 365 and then we're gonna go to the hellcat and we're using the long magazine on both tons we are using the consistently longer when it gives a better grip that way we're consistent between both and we get the better just the better handling and in general all right there we go all right so this is your first run P 365 two hits on each target from low ready are you ready yep stand by you know what these do handle slightly differently because when I take what feels like the same grip I'm shooting way high with this guy mm-hmm the grip angles just a little bit different are you ready yep stand by [Music] five four six six eight one yeah you know it's funny this red dot is not actually that much faster I don't think red dots are faster we'll get into that later in the topic I'm having to take time to acquire the dot and it's taking me more time than if I just acquired the iron sights you want to do it again with just the irons and ignore the dot I think I'm actually going to do that right now that's a conversation for later because there's an interesting all right all right stand by 3:45 that was just using the irons why don't we run that again with the irons all right so I'm gonna do a couple more runs specifically using the irons not trying to use the red dot at all cuz I'm not sure that red dots actually helping me all right irons only are you ready yep stand by [Music] 369 all right so my first three runs with the P 365 I've never even shot this gun so ready yep 312 - eight nine - eight nine okay not too bad that's pretty consistent yeah ready yep - 77269 yep [Music] 3:17 alright alright so real quickly here the first drill which is ten yards two hits on two targets even you actually won with the Hellcat okay so your P 365 average was three point six six okay and with the Hellcat using the irons you had a problem with the dot yeah we we're not going to talk about the doctor we'll talk about that later your iron results with the Hellcat was three point four seven okay and then me same drill my P 365 score was averaged two point nine seven okay and with the Hellcat I use the dot two point eight eight so both of us came through slightly faster just tiny bit faster yeah with the Hellcat alright well let's move back a little bit and try something a little different yes okay so now this next drill we've moved back to fifteen yards from low ready position means going to come up with the Hellcat for the first gun and acquire just two hits on that one target so little further back fast as you can do it reliably good two one five best run all right all right let's move over to the two one five six - alright my run with the Hellcat first target on the right 15 yards ready yep one three eight - five - 379 you suck that was not a good run ready yep 0.86 Wow ready yep one five zero ready one six one all right the 15-yard go ready two hits on the target drill completely the opposite results pretty overwhelmingly yep different all right so you in with the Hellcat your average was two point eight seven and with the P 360s five was a one point eight four that's that's a second average difference in in time terms with guns that's significant especially considering that maximum was less than three yeah all right so me same drill with the Hellcat two point five six and with the sig one point three two I have some thoughts on that but let's get to the next drill and we'll have conclusions at the end okay okay so the final drill is at 25 yards ten rounds in each gun this is not time this is how many out of ten do you get on target that's it and I would not do it World War one style let's use some modern pistol technique just today just today all right so he and you're gonna start with the P 365 and why don't you start on the left target and we'll use the Hellcat on the right all right all right if you're ready go ahead [Applause] [Music] I thought I had to missus you did and seven hit loaded your mag float around honey bullet make a count alright so crap seven hits alright with the 365 now do I want to do this with the dot or the irons I think you make sense to use the DA personally considering the dot is more about precision than it is speed that's true alright target on the right I think I'm loaded this one properly good math is hard right alright my turn dots are nice sometimes I guess alright P 365 25 yards 10 rounds I think you're low no your left your very consistent it's just have you tried putting that - all right you got - okay that's okay that's a result it be the one I want but it is a result all right Hellcat [Music] six got six I'm a speed shooter not a precision pistol shooter clearly however there's still an interesting result there make fun all you want let's go look at the data let's first of all go with the results at twenty five wouldn't hand you that one yeah which I'm not happy with but hey you know what you know what differentiate from some other content I'm just gonna go ahead and put the data out there and are we shooting it all right it is so Ian with VP 365 at 25 yards on a mini up stick with ten rounds you had seven hits yep good job I would do seven fingers but I'm gonna point the gun in some weird direction if I try I think that that kind of slow precise shooting is something that's something you've had a lot more practice with in your life especially with pistols maybe that is my original background in pistol shooting it has collegiate 22 bullseye pistol ironically that's my background with rifle shooting and not pistol shooting anyways with the Hellcat you had 10 out of 10 10 for 10 I attribute that largely to the red dot yep we'll talk about that in a moment and then me yeah not so good P 365 2 and the Hellcat still not that great but a lot better sis so again the dot so what we see here is we see result where the Hellcat won at super close range between targets this is the SI 365 won hands down at 15 yards with a double tap on a target one target a little more deliberate maybe yep and then back at 2 at 25 yards the Hellcat won again probably mostly about the sighting system these guns are really similar they are I mean trying to distinguish between them is kind of a challenge yes if you weren't a dark room if someone handed you both of them would you be able to figure out which one was which if it didn't have the red dot yes because of the texture trigger dingus ok fair enough but that's got like that's about it that's really close yeah um that said I think one of the things that we can't talk about if you're gonna be confused about they will Red Dog red thoughts are faster I don't agree I I think red dots provide precision red dots can be faster with a lot of iterations of using that gun with that dot and that presentation but if you don't use that gun with that dot and your presentation reliably all the time one gun not ten of them that one looking for the dot even with a hand off from an irons is still slower than just going to the irons you know that makes sense especially because with that sort of dot a pistol dot you've got a single plane and you don't have anything other than your iron sights index it you don't see that differentiation on rifles where you've got first off in extra point of contact with your face yes and then you actually have a tubular red dot that gives you kind of an automatic index as you start to look through it it's very easy to automatically line it up because you're looking through a tube and you can Center the one end in the other end which is harder with this which is something the a CRO which is another video on in range about the acro red dot on a Glock the accra is a tube and that does come up faster okay but that's a whole other discussion but it red dot like this what this provides is if you use this gun reliably all the time consistently only this gun you can get faster with the red dot because it's gonna when you present the double index for you just by the natural muscle memory but if you're known if you don't have that muscle memory with that gun grip angle changes all that stuff you have to go irons transition to dot so most of the time the dot provides one huge benefit which is precision yeah and we definitely saw that oh my god that was clear as a bell at twenty five yards for both of us even if I had four misses so I still I always am and will continue to be a huge proponent of red dots on pistols one you don't have to use it if you don't want it right now that's true and when you need it you need it yeah overall though in general aggregate when you see the result from a bear what are your thoughts thoughts are I want a 365 XL with a dot on it so you don't want to either the guns we're talking about in that world of stuff well I think a 25-yard precision shooting test with the fees is not exactly their intended use case I agree that doesn't mean that's not something that could absolutely come up and it's never a bad thing to be able to shoot well with anything agreed but I a 25-yard precision test is not what I would use to determine which gun of this style I would pick I understand it's a really tough call for me I'm biased in favor of the cig and to be honest I'm not entirely sure why and maybe it's just the fact that the Hellcat is a copy mm-hmm and that vaguely offends me and some ok fairness sense of play sure but I like this trigger better for shooting I would like that trigger better for carrying the complete lack of of an external sort of safety on this no this isn't a DA revolver this does not have a DA revolver trigger this has a DA striker trigger without anything to prevent it from catching I am expecting that Sig did some sort of background research testing on you know discharge of this when you don't intend it to fire and insert endless comments about sig drop tests yes but I don't know and I know no knowledge of the details of that for the 365 so I don't know I sleep at your dingus on that makes me feel a little bit better but there's a there there that dingus exists as a mechanical safety for a reason on the long-range shooting what was interesting to me is I very much preferred this trigger even though I wasn't able to make as many hits with it okay that trigger is just heavier yes it has a clean break well but there were times in there when I was focusing more on trying to hold the dot on target while I continued to apply pressure because I had to keep applying more pressure before the thing would fire yes we're on this I was able to get a sight picture and have a nice quick release I highly I wholly think that's why we saw such a significant different result at 15 okay because the dot while we neither of us have shot this enough to have the presentation speed with the dot that you can get with time the difference there at 15 yards with a DoubleTap on a target was that trigger reset was was easier to handle and provide a subsequent accurate secondary shot this one you have to be more diligent with I wasn't even thinking about reset you're right yeah this does have a shorter reset to it it's shorter and even if it's mode feels like a rubber band it's shorter so on that when we come up and were like pop-pop that's where that came from yeah that makes sense so okay I'm gonna throw down the garland then I'll do mine you have to pick one which one do you pick sake pick the signal like this thing okay and that's for cuz I like it okay honestly I'm going with cuz I like it okay fear um this is gonna be a good video because I would go with the Hellcat company politics aside all that nonsense talking about mechanical use of the gun today here's why I go with this I'm a proponent of dots this is a dot in a small package it's true you don't know when you need that precision but when you need it you want it now it's very true so in my opinion I want that capability the other thing is this sounds goofy it is an advertising thing does have an extra round yeah that's true that is true the other things are the other thing I do like is I actually prefer the grip texturing on this grip I find this to be more sticky a tactile and in this is not a dynamic environment Rin right now but that's a real thing as well okay the last thing and this is the tiniest of tiny however I think it's kind of cool that they put enough design engineering into this that there's a standoff here when you press it into something and I think that's a worthwhile addition did they do they desert no well there's acknowledged you've got a guide rod but it's however it is flat and that one is extended intentionally yeah that one's extended to come out and match the barrel and I know a lot of people get exactly and so that's yes this is unloaded less likely to go out of battery in a very close combat environment don't have to go very far to be just a little bit will make the gun not fire yeah and that's and that's a little thing there and if you've ever taken something like II CQC man pushing into stuff and fire the gun is a common thing and it's a common malfunction and this may not solve it but it makes it less likely and this is a carry pistol first and foremost that's what this is designed to be these are both self defense pistols you make compelling arguments those are my reasons no I feel bad no I don't think it is all about the feelings for me apparently that's okay you know but you also shot extremely well with that I don't think either you know what I don't think any of these are a bad choice no I absolutely agree with that I think you have to try on both and figure out what's right for you I would love it yeah now it sounds like your opinion really wouldn't change if you had a dot on this there's a couple other reasons because there's a little more to it than just that correct but these are so comparable that I think that we're literally counting how many angels can dance on the head of a pin here these are this is a derivative copy they did a little couple changes here with the dot putting a dot into a small package versus the XL my next around and that standoff our differentiators yep all the small ones and they are both in my opinion at this point with the limited use we've had I think they're both good choices yeah definitely so either one is bad yep okay this is of course more expensive with the dot - that's true so otherwise I think the base guns are about the same yeah at least MSRP sr if the street prices end up being different we've yet to really see it anything else you want to add to that I do too and I want to play what the SAS the excel with a dot is like it's not a it's not a hideout gun it's like a miniature version of a service pistol yeah just kind of these are kind of they're already you know what we're kind of reached this is almost like we've always said all the golden age of the killer pistol man if this isn't close if not the Golden Age of the carry pistol I don't know what is because how long ago was it that a package with 13 or 12 rounds of a semi-automatic gun that was capable of making reliable hits nevermind my performance today at 25 yards on a tiny target wasn't a thing right people were careless Caltech 30 2009 and there's a lot of pistols now that are starting to become this really interesting place where it's big enough to be reliably used like a service pistol yes small enough to actually carry yeah so I think I think you're great with either one well what we do need to point out Springfield provided that gun they did sadly we can't just keep our preference guns because we borrowed this from a friend we did we have to give this one back Thank You Aaron yeah other than that the ammunition the time out here to do this this is all provided by patreon supporters this channel is completely supported by people like you we don't have monetization or sponsorship from anyone we don't have advertising it is really completely viewer supported PBS model if you're already doing it thank you so much for bringing us ammo today be able to do this video for you if you're not please consider it and if you can't totally get it just subscribe to one of our distribution points there's multiple of them you can find them all at in-range TV and thanks for watching you

Channel: undefined

Views: 165,515

Rating: 4.9011593 out of 5

Keywords: p365, hellcat, sigsauer, springfield, springfield armory, sig 365, sig sauer, inrange, inrangetv, forgotten weapons, mccollum, gun jesus, kasarda, c&rsenal, military arms channel

Id: RTRTnCIupYQ

Length: 24min 7sec (1447 seconds)

Published: Fri Nov 29 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/DC4Runner]

I thought that was a very good unbiased review thanks. Even though I had already bought the non red dot Hellkitty.