Sierra Leone: Do citizens benefit from mineral resources?

this week on the 77 street debate we can see that human rights violations are still occurring children are still being forced into these sites do we give up hope do we say the diamond should be left untouched we have to mine the diamonds the government agents that are supposed to be protected protecting supposed to be challenging the companies to deliver they are colliding and colluding into this operation [Music] hello and welcome back to the 77 the show for africa's youth this week we are in koidu this is sierra leone's rich mining district and in this country you will find literally anything from colton to iron ore and diamonds but it is extracted and very quickly exported and so today we want to find out are those exports translating to wealth for the young people who live here who better to answer this question for me than fellow sierra leoneans and we're going to begin with ibrahim and i just want to get an overview from you because i've often heard it say that you know had it said that minerals and riches natural riches particularly for africa can be occurs what do you think of this is it a curse well i think very contrary minerals cannot be a cause endowments are meant for beneficiation are meant for development purpose it's all depend on the type of talent people have in a given sovereignty let me hear from aya here he's a student but he was also mining and in the minds from a very young age at 14. for my own story when i was 14 years old i was going to school i was around a junior secondary school in sierra leone i was giving this kind of support to my relatives whom i was staying with back then in order for us to see here we can get our livelihood it was very difficult it was very challenging because as a young boy i'd skip school by then to go to the mines to give support because that was the only source of livelihood we had and even onto that ibialex kept that particular not a falling out of school because a lot of colleagues whom we were in that stage with whom i started schooling with because of mining activities and because of you know the the effects of mining activities they were unable to afford the education today a good number of them are drop out so if you look at the impact of diamond mining to use you know in the wider population cereal for me it is much of a cause because we are not getting the kind of dividend we are not getting the kind of profits okay and by the way we should mention that where we are right now there's a big mine that operates just beyond this mound and what we are seeing is a byproduct of that blasting rocks which are then uh crushed into smaller pieces by the women we're seeing in the background to then be sold to construction workers so i'd like to hear from the mayor because we've heard that this region despite its riches is not reflective of uh the diamonds and the gold that's coming out of this region so i'm wondering why you're right the reflection of the natural resources we have you cannot actually tell whether the diamonds the golds and other minerals extracting from corner whether actually this uh this is a place where those minerals are but on the contrary to say mineral or diamonds or whatever mineral giving to us is a cause it's not a cause the availability of the natural resources hasn't is not a problem it is a proper utilization of a mineral resources that has a problem policies around extraction of minerals these are the problems if we have a good governance system system put in place how to extract an even if there is a wipolizer wheel to bring those machines those technologies how to transform those raw materials here into a finnish product actually let me let me just bring in suleiman here because you spoke of policy and he is from the national mining agency the body that is supposed to enforce policy and also create it around the extractive industry so is it right what the mayor is saying that we just have a lack of that leadership from national level leadership i can show you now from now from 2018 that the willingness is there now what the agency is focusing on mainly is to see the committees where they are where these where these manuals are coming from they benefit from them so they've ensured that the communities do sign the committee development agreements with the communities so that at the end of every year there are ghosts and revenues some passengers come back to the committee they have their committees that that these with these funds to ensure that projects are being implemented hold on ai is already disagreeing with you yes if we look at what mining companies are getting from kona district from the minings that they are doing and we compare it to the impact in the communities it is not commensurate even the community development agreement that is said to sign with those communities the amount that is getting back to those communities it can undertake no tangible development project look at the communities for example we are very close to one community which is a located community which is a a a resettlement this community lacks water they are not having access to electricity and they're very close to this mining company so what are we talking about in terms of communities benefiting from the mining what does the sierra leone government say about who mines where they're allowed to mine how much comes back into the community water that's a problem every year now but but this these settlements they are doing our best you have areas that don't have water but every day every now and then these problems comes we we tell the people this is the problem of the people this is the problem of people so it's ongoing yeah it's trying to address most of these issues we know there are issues the the mayor is raising his hand on that side but i want to hear from mary for a second because you grew up in a place that has been mining for a really long time in fact some of the earliest diamonds were discovered where you grew up did you see this reflected as you were growing up you know that yes we have good agreements with oh you're already shaking your head no okay go ahead tell me before this time i think there was a better system in place many people benefited from it before even we were born i think we had of the the benefits that our own parents even our grandparents we are benefiting so for the fact that i'm mining or diamond as a resources i mean as a resource being a cause to us i personally disagreed with that first of all because god cannot bless you and in turn cause you again it is with the individuals it is we the leaders are leaders up there what actually are they doing in order to see that the the their children yet on bond are benefiting or they will be benefited from these mining companies or from these resources right um i want to come to uh patrick here because he's actually wearing a shirt that says ethical minerals and what uh mary has touched on is really important that previously there was a system that worked for everyone but of course the war came and so the term blood diamond and conflict diamond arose to what extent did the war change and shift the way people think about extractives in this country before the war came i believe the awareness is not there but now we have the awareness we the youth are coming up we are we went to school we we will we are in congress to go to school so now that we are going to go to school you want to see that that thing translates if the company comes to do this necessary needs for the community okay for them to all right um let me speak to issa here for a second because we're hearing that look the policies are amazing it's just the implementation that sucks and i've had big companies being named here but you as a small scale miner are you one of the people who is deterring development from happening perhaps because of bad employment practices you know i deal with a lot of people i had almost 50 minus people working for me under daily circumstances they've got kids they cannot even feed they've got kids they cannot even take to the hospitals they sleep in houses wherein they're cramped and crowded with no mattresses whatsoever they sleep on the floors isn't that because you're not paying them enough now we pay them when i got here as an example i'm not sure if i'm supposed to say we were paying the miners 70 cents per day i thought that wasn't enough we paid them a dollar and when the diamond comes out it's theirs they tell us how much they want for it and we negotiate so we're actually supporting them to make sure they can get on the field and work i want to come back to air for a second because i want to understand you know i think for people who don't live or come from places where their minds the imagination is that you come in you mine for two days you get a diamond that's about 50 carats and then your life is set but what's the reality well the reality it is on two spears for example if you're doing artisanal mining previously like a about two or three decades ago some people will say by then i was very young and maybe i was not even born to decay three decades ago they would say like they'll leave the house but they'll leave their their parents or wives at home and say let me go to the mines and go and take diamond and come but looking at the train now for the past one decade now that has changed eventually on average how long would an artisanal miner be at the mines before they're able to extract something meaningful so there are some people if you ask them from stories they'll tell you that i've been mining for the past three years and i've not gotten a single diamond some people tell you i've been money for the past three years the diamonds i've gotten from the mines it is only worth about fifty dollars okay uh let me hear from benedict here because he's actually a very busy man i was talking to him earlier but he's actually embroiled in eight lawsuits active against big mining companies because of various reasons so is what we're hearing from a uh uh reflective of what you're seeing in your profession that it's the big mining companies who are making it big whereas the communities are basically going with nothing i cannot specifically speak to these matters because they are subject to judicial proceedings but i will just reflect on the facts that have been arising out of this debate communities are calling out and saying we've been oppressed we've been abused by mining companies and they are not respecting the laws and policies as articulated by the leadership of this country but most worrying it is not the communist behavior that is worrying to the communities is their leadership attitude towards their oppression and suppression and exploitation that is what worries them when we consult with them in chamber this is what they always raise and the problem we have also is that if that is the persistent matter that we take to court and in the circumstances the communities are saying inside our leaders side with us they are siding with the company let me go to the leader that we have here the mayor you knew i was coming for you that's why you're laughing so we're hearing that when people come to you and say hey these guys are here they're doing one two three to us you're really not caring about it you're you're more concerned about the investment rather than the welfare of the people in your community true or false well um when you look at the mining policies in this country one uh it is not done at the local level um our parliament and this country they formulate those policies at the uh legislative level the the leadership i have like the local council level of leadership if he asked me i think i would stand with the people the view of the people because imagine myself as a mayor when we meet at some quarters other people will say the mayor from a mining rich you know community and he has a lot of money the council has a lot of money but it will surprise you to know that um since i became a mayor of 2018 we've not received a ten thousand dollars cash from any mining process in this particular community but give me a second let me come to suleiman how is that possible given that the act is very very clear one percent of proceeds from mining companies should come back to the communities where the percentages are not static it depends on the company now like in kernel districts we have five large-scale mining companies but only two are productive now for every stage every step you want to take they have their consultants they call them they do environmental social impact assessments to see what what and this affects the community they present them to the company quarterly we have the national administration board they come they do inspection they see what and what is it's not going right with the company they give exactly a picture where they are and then where they are going to and we are from now okay uh let me hear from benedict yes i think um the point the enemy uh slamman is being pointing out reflects the our our communities who are fighting against oppression the attitude of government and political leaders so the the government agents that are supposed to be protected protecting supposed to be challenging the companies to deliver to the communities they are being indicted by our communities that they are colliding and colluding into this operation it's a serious issue it's a security issue and you look around here these are the people who own the lands where the diamonds are mined they've been reduced to the utter level of poverty minus zero zero poverty level instead of having their children go to school go to universities go to hospitals have good infrastructure look at them the children below 10 years are smashing stones dogs from the rubbles of the diamond mining of octogenarian type one of the best quality diamonds in the world and they cannot see it it is not accounted for no one knows what is taking there every day let me ask him ask him that question let me ask let him declare to the people so because earlier you did say that to be fair that uh percentages are not static but are you able to track and trace how much is being extracted okay now we are seeing enemy has mines compliance officers inside there they work on three shifts basis what the mining the company gets they package everything they sign they sell it they ensure that it has been seen and then kept into a safe yeah every day on it on on pre-ship basis so in the last year or so uh based on what the mayor is saying you want to tell me that what has been exported one percent of it does not amount to ten thousand dollars the enemy calculates what they may they what they've exported and then they have the percentage 0.5 percent that comes back to the committee for which the cdc's they've got their accounts those money has done they are not giving they are not being sent into the permanent chiefs account they have the cdc the committee company the community committee has their accounts we ensure that before the start of the use of the money they identify projects for which they want to implement okay what projects have been i mean i'm sure that is beyond your scope but i'm just trying to brilliant if you put money into an account and you never see the results why keep putting money into the account that's why i'm i'm telling you now they've been three secondary schools two security schools and a primary school and then there are two ongoing projects one a health facility has the ado community and the staff quarter is completed yeah i want to come to issa here for a second because you've recently returned from living abroad have you seen any dramatic changes since you've been away i think um to be honest sierra leone is the only place you come back to you never get lost because everything remains the same whether it's in freetown it's in board so there has been no changes whatsoever you know the question would be is diamond the thing that's going to bring that change for me i'll say no because we've seen over a century perhaps that um diamond has made very little impact we see other countries like the gambia senegal they've got no diamonds whatsoever as a matter of fact they got peanuts so for me i don't know if the answer to sierra leone's problem is minerals and yet you're in the business i'm in the business because i see there is a bit of an opportunity i can make changes in people's lives i help communities i support people i spend money on a daily basis i employ people direct employment as a matter of fact i've got close contact with people in governance and what they say is we need people like you that are making direct investment direct employment so i'm happy to be back home doing whatever little i can do i see a lot of experts around me they know what's going on they know what the problems are maybe they need to be engaged a lot more maybe there's that sense of responsibility by everyone to make sure we can um or make an impact all right unfortunately issa has to leave because he's a busy man he's got to sell diamonds but we still have the panel here let me say to the last comment the other gentleman said about diamonds are not an answer diamond is an answer a thought really before we call me a google demon sincerely i saw blood diamonds i saw a diamonds wrecking lives of people i did the same them also boswana i saw diamonds lifting transforming botswana i saw the policy in botswana instead of having octia mining a company registered in virgin islands owning 100 percent of london mining sales in sierra leone and taking over the mines and octa diamonds of sierra leone literally presiding over the wealth of sierra leone diamonds botswana said no we have what we call the swanna that is the bea and botswana the state owns the mining company that mines and police demos in boston and guess what on the records eighty percent of the proceeds of the diamonds in busan goes to state coffers and guess what all of that goes to schools hospitals roads infrastructure okay i want to hear from ibrahim and aya for a second because you know as everybody is speaking i'm wondering you're the people who are living in these communities why not take these companies and sue them why not protest why not demand more from your governments honestly conor was a hundred percent destroyed during the civil war this was the center of the yes of the war probably for the diamonds but we've also recovered 80 percent because of the diamonds the small mines and the other things and we are progressive we are competing with other places like makini body america tests i can't allow you to continue with your thought knowing full well that this gentleman standing next to you was forced out of school because he was actually a child in the minds yes i'm also a victim of what's happening i was shocked so one of those how can you believe that diamonds are suddenly now a blessing when we can see that human rights violations are still occurring children are still being forced into these sites yes that makes me my work more relevant in as much as i was nearly killed in one of those demonstrations the lawyer test i have my testimonies and i all over the world it's in al jazeera and other places yeah you were shocked during a demonstration kind of situation do we give up hope do we say the diamond should be left untouched we have to mine the diamonds let's move to other factors you know because there's direct impact and indirect impact and mary i want to hear back from you the women in these communities most of them displaced because their land is used for mining and then they find themselves internally displaced because they can't afford to buy land they're not allowed to in some cases tell me about that really before this time um women we are not allowed to own land and these lands are being regulated by the authorities chiefs and others so um for the women as you can see they are suffering because they cannot have access to lands and of course those that they those that are being resettled they were having backyard gardens in their their previous homes but now since the resettlement has taken place those areas that they used to do their backyard garden in order to to sustain themselves with their children are no more you know in existence they the company never give it to them and i want to hear from benedict how difficult or easy is it to then take some of these uh companies to court because you know if i say i used to have two plots and now you've given me a half of what i had what's the the procedure that's why we're in court and we are litigating these matters on a no we no fee basis i mean they do not have the legal fees to pay they don't they cannot afford the cost of lawyers to litigate these matters and on the contrary opposed inside the companies they have tons of diamonds they have tons of money unaccounted for so they can speculate and hire a battery of lawyers between an outside city and contest this matters and it is not a hidden secret it is not rocket science to look at the people in connor and say hey mining companies you have not lived up to your expectations so um i will be challenging the mayors and the dc uh chairman of conor to come out and challenge the apartment chief and challenge the stakeholders and say listen we cannot be put escape goals we are here presiding over debris we are here presiding over poverty yet in the midst of wealth and another challenge that comes from mining of course you're dealing with ethical minerals i said earlier what are some of the implications of of these extractive practices if you can even call them that well i will say the implications like if this big company that are coming into the community like they now they use this um machinist they call extraveto they just meant then they leave the hose like that then i believe if they leave it like that for the future generation they wouldn't have like now you measure our culture they would have some some yeah to do the agriculture because the whole the pit is left open okay slime and i like the fact that you're raising your hand because i wanted to ask what does the nma say about this so we tell them after mining you will claim the land because after mining there's there are other use of land so what you're saying is the companies are compelled or they're supposed to you're supposed to be supposed to all right yeah my experience is that say the enemy and the epa are literally doing nothing in terms of preservation and protection of the environment because if you look at the people that you know the protection agency to be fair they've been trying to plant trees they're doing their best to recover and reclaim some of the land we are the trees that they are planting the trees are not growing the trees that they are planting are not even looking after the trees for me most of the institute institutions that have a manning their fears of the environment they are just being leave leap service to the people if you go to nimey covered shift dome we are one of the biggest gold mines is located in conor d street they are polluted the water sources that is there the communities are suffering at this point in time the stream that is there has been polluted i see is also the mining operation fishes another living things that are living those streams along you know the places where these mineral equations are being carried out specifically in the main coach of them all these things have been destroyed yeah so what are they doing in terms of preservation of the environment so we've had quite a myriad of challenges related to both large-scale and small-scale mining particularly in this region and now i want to find out from my panelists how do we move forward you know as the sun sets down i want to hear what we can do to change the situation because it's persisted for decades mary you have something to say to me all these issues that we have deliberated we have a way forward how could we the the top management has to change their attitude especially in the area of these mining companies we are seeing the system um the policies that are already in place should be implemented we should stop saying them let's implement it and of course regarding women we have several structures in place even these a um stone crushers women we have them as an association so these structures um if we want to empower them there are several other ways maybe in agriculture we can bring up agriculture i mean programs and we subscribe them to to that agricultural program so empowering women creating skills for them for them all right ibrahim any solutions for me yes that's 10 20 of all proceeds coming from the mind should go to the women and the children okay for education for brilliant students and their community support does anybody else have a solution that we haven't heard yet i think the government central government must realize and must understand that it is the future of these children that has been put in japanese for the from the mines and the government has a singular responsibility if they want to do it they can do it next tomorrow or they can even do it today the excuses the the the structural adjustments the reliance on foreign donors and even imf does not is not necessary if they can really utilize the resources that are coming here and like i said to the enemy gentlemen we don't know what comes there every day even if they say they know they are not publishing it so how can we claim the one percent of the three percent that is agreed in the first place how would you calculate hundred percent all over what right nothing so the government must be transparent accountable and development must not be particularly political issue once you are in government you are government for everybody okay well at the beginning of this debate i asked if the riches that are found largely underground in this country present a curse or not to the economy and the people of this region what i've heard in a resounding way is that no they're not it's simply how they're handled or mishandled i don't know what your viewpoint is but thank you for watching [Music]

Channel: DW The 77 Percent

Views: 48,883

Keywords: DW, DW Africa, Africa, The 77 Percent, African youth, Sierra Leone, Koidu, Kono District, diamonds, blood diamonds, mining, mineral sector, Edith Kimani, conflict diamonds

Id: 8DVoUc8Sads

Length: 25min 42sec (1542 seconds)

Published: Wed May 18 2022