Sibos 2020: In conversation - Hays Littlejohn, EBA Clearing and Russ Waterhouse, The Clearing House

[Music] [Music] [Music] just [Music] hello everyone my name is melissa tozzolo and i am the payments fmi and industry head at city i'm happy to welcome you to this fireside chat today where we're going to be talking about the future of cross-border payments and how collaboration amongst market infrastructures is going to help get us there in october of 2020 the financial stability board released their stage 3 enhancing cross-border payments roadmap with improving payments infrastructures as one of their five key focus areas to address the current theme points in the friction and cross-border payments this roadmap complements many of the payments transformation activities we're seeing emerge across the ecosystem today we'll be hearing from hayes littlejohn ceo of eba clearing and russ waterhouse evp product and strategy at clearinghouse on what this all means for our market infrastructures and what role they're looking to play in driving transformation in their communities so i want to start a little bit with a bit of a provocative question to both of you about the future state and the role of market infrastructures so we'll start with pretending that we have a crystal ball that's magically going to show us what the world of payments looks like in 10 years 2031. what do you think you'll see and what would you want to see and russ will we'll start with you okay melissa thank you and welcome um so how does how to start that question so my crystal ball has universally been wrong so we'll start with that especially if you put a 10-year time horizon on it but maybe as we think about the next 10 we should look back over the last 10 and what we've learned from that so 10 years ago would have put us in 2011. um at that point in time i think the uk faster payment system is probably the only notable real-time instant retail payment system operating today we have 50 plus that are either operating or in in development stages across the world uh mobile wallets hadn't been discovered so we didn't have apple pay uh google pay samsung pay wechat uh alipay and the list goes on um we didn't really see yet the emergence of competitors in the cross-border space certainly paypal was there but now we've got wise it used to be transferwise but i guess they rebranded this week we've got card push payments and we've got many other fintechs that are starting to enter the cross border space we also had at libra which was an interesting start and then not start but also domestically we've seen the rise of e-commerce tokenization and open banking it is just astounding to me how much change has happened over the past 10 years and many of these initiatives really actually set a platform for an acceleration of change in the payment system certainly that's true i think with open banking and apis and the adoption of apis so i think the message from the industry is that the change is is here it's it's accelerating and that means competition is accelerating and i think the call for for all of us as we think about history is is the history of the planet is evolution and those that evolve survive and those that don't oh and so as an industry we've got to continue to evolve to survive so so i'm not even offering the crystal ball i'll just give you i was about to say that's a very it's a very um diplomatic and calculated answer so that's everything are you willing to uh to place a bet on on this well it's funny that we're still talking about crystal balls in the days of predictive analytics um and you know i'm not sure that i i have any better answer for the future than russ has maybe maybe maybe rather to a vision or a dream or a hope rather than a prediction and i think i would want to see in a globally connected ecosystem with more opportunity and choice than there is today where the friction and pain and pain is removed or reduced where there's transparency across the processing chain from payer to payee minimal friction across borders uh low cost for consumers end to end 24 7 with 100 resilience complete security and data privacy um or at least the predator privacy of the choice of the user and clear and and complementary roles um that public and private sector can play in promoting that agenda what do i think we will see i think some of this will definitely happen some other things will probably happen and come in between i think we will likely to see an increased improvement on the user experience especially on the front end i think we'll make great progress in removing some of the frictions that are there today i think uh the resilience that we've retrieved so far is pretty good can be improved and probably will be i'm not so sure that it's always clear um in the coming years how the public and private sectors can work together here but i'm optimistic and i think that last but not least we'll probably still have a few legacy payment instruments around uh and that we'll still be dealing with uh despite all of the new normals that are coming no thank you both and i i think look both very um pragmatic and and realistic answers to the question um but again you know asking for this future vision or future state i know it's it's it's tough to uh ascertain right what it's going to be like in 10 years from now again to your point russ how much it's changed in the last 10 years so i'm sure there are things out there that we haven't even considered yet but you know russ or hayes actually um you know appreciate you you know building out a bit of a vision and what you'd like to see i think the question is you know what role do you think that market infrastructures can play in ensuring that the community you know gets to more of this ideal future state so thanks i think it's a great question melissa and i think market interest infrastructures have typically played a role in minimizing investment spend on a collective basis and through cooperation and collaboration are able to help remove some of the restrictions and some of the the issues that can pop up and work out some issues that um in processing that would pop up um also by bringing in common standards and features coordinating the technology spend defining and enforcing some of those roles and responsibilities that are agreed uh for the participants of the systems that they're operating um i think that also market infrastructures can play a role in resilience uh probably also in data privacy and helping improving trust amongst the users but i think also your the user experience can benefit too with the global standards and global cooperation and also the high system performance and response rates that we've been able to achieve in the real-time payments instant payment space um there are a lot of competing infrastructure requirements out there that are being driven by competition and some activity in the public sector like you mentioned what's going on with the cpmi and trying to bring down the the global cost of payments i think those things will also play a role and market infrastructures can help make that efficient i think though we'll have to prioritize really well make sure that senior commitment is available and and behind some of these initiatives across across the globe and careful not to dance at too many weddings there's a lot out there and uh there's a lot of choice and a lot of things we could be spending money on and if we're not careful we'll just boil the ocean yeah yeah no that's that's a very a very good way to put it and i think you know the point that you're making on on resilience is uh especially astute considering that a lot of these new market entrants right the actual scale and scope volume and value that they're processing is just a drop in the ocean compared to what we have across these existing market infrastructures so really when we think about something that's industrial strength i think absolutely you know a role for a big role from our infrastructure together to make sure that global commerce continues when we don't see sales in space but also on the the not dance with too many weddings i mean maybe also if i may you know also realizing when we've got a bad dance partner and finding a way to ditch them earlier than later in a wedding right um is probably something also that we need to learn as an industry and maybe pick up on at a point hayes made right at the start which i think is a critical point given where we are in the economic cycle um you know this is if we'd have been having this conversation 18 months ago the banking industry was in a very different place in terms of economics and capital available to invest and now clearly we're in a very different place so picking and making the right bets and the right dance partners i think can be very very important because we're competing for capital and resource in the industry um and i and i do think that the industry's gonna have to be very selective on on what bets it makes just because of where we where we are and that is a great role for an mi um i think there are things that we can do to reduce friction uh by taking on maybe a little bit more in terms of uh what we do on a central basis and might have been traditionally the case and reduce some of that cost and implementation friction um but at the end of the day i think you're right we we provide resiliency with incredibly high dependency job one for us is systems we can all depend on that do what they're supposed to do pretty much all the time i think 99.99 whatever that number is it's pretty close to perfection and it has to be um i think the flip side to that is that we've built domestically some incredible systems with rt1 with rtp so we really do have digital ready platforms now um so we're not dealing with batch uh we're dealing with modern iso standards and we're dealing modern technology so that is a great starting point uh to lever into a brave new world i think and actually just to double click on that for for a second you know and it's a good point that you bring up that the mis are already on this path right the mis you guys have already built these real time system capabilities what you thought we experienced so can you talk a little bit about how maybe your instructors have adapted um to build these real-time infrastructures and how you're bringing that into helping to to influence and play this role in making the right bed and finding those great dance partners i think you know the way that we we tend to operate really supports that um through our collaboration and bringing people together to solve certain problems um we have adapted to the changing needs that have come up in the first three years of the instant payments world with rt1 through a very active user user group that feeds in its needs as their product and service needs change on the front end and that's been really really helpful we've already had uh seven iterations of rt1 uh since it's gone live um which is a pretty quick pace for infrastructure and uh this has allowed us to to get ready and the other thing that we've done that we've leveraged the infrastructure for that i think will play a role in removing some of the frictions down the road is the um the request to pay and uh we've developed this on the on the rails of of rt1 using a lot of the same components and as russ was mentioning before you know that what we've built and what we've discussed so far here what we built is really ready for basically any type of use case um the scale of rt1 right now uh it was built to process 5000 transactions per second which is uh on on par with any credit card uh processing that you have today and can handle peaks that you you would see in in big shopping days so i think it provides a real uh together with request to pay requires provides a real opportunity uh to to improve on what we've gotten so we've adapted in that way along with our user needs and our users are what drive us okay thanks russ yeah i'd echo the request for payment um i think that is a game changer it's you know it's we've operated for a long time as an industry based on debit products certainly certainly here in the us so we think about ach debit debit card etc and all of those require the exchange of customer credentials sensitive credentials and i think the huge advantage of rtp is is credit push and and the way you get around a debit that request for payment can be done in a very secure way through a banking channel so we do think that's a huge game changer uh in terms of safety transparency and consumer control um and it actually brings the consumer or the business back to the bank right so they're not transacting uh with with the corporate they're actually coming back to the bank to transact which is usually important um i do think that is one of the things that surprised me in the rtp journey and hayes touched on it it was how market infrastructures would traditionally just build the tech and the banks would go away and build product and innovate on top of it but the complexity uh which is good for rtp and rt1 uh is you've got way more messaging capabilities and therefore way more product capabilities and so we found ourselves in a role of facilitating conversations around product development in ways that we didn't anticipate and i think that's a good muscle for us to further develop so as we think about this cross-border space uh you know how the the innovation is going to be required uh and how we innovate together i think is gonna be hugely important and and so we've actually invested significantly in our product team internally here to help drive innovation with the banks as partners well that's that's great thank you both and um yeah and i ask the question because i think sometimes we forget how innovative we've actually been as an industry and particularly the market infrastructure to real-time instant payments i mean it's a very significant change over the past 10 years and as you both mentioned you know has required a real shift in mindset with your own organizations and also has spurred a lot of development from the broader ecosystem in the banks um and i'd i'd like to ask about the other innovations right that that have been taking place across the cross-border payments ecosystem um and your thoughts around the ones that excite you the most right so we've got this migration to iso 2022 a large scale across the water industry gpi the swift platform this exploration of more 24x7 which again i think goes back to this you know instant payment schemes but thinking about that more broadly in in a high value space as well a movement towards usage of apis more dynamic interaction between between banks uh and even you know questions around digital currency and cdbc so i wanted to ask both of you i mean what should be is really excites you most um and which ones do you think are perhaps more hype than substance and uh thrust will start with you i think gpi has been tremendous for the industry it's done two things one is it's provided transparency uh so i think there was always this notion that cross-border and our bank payments were slow uh burdensome and i think what gpi has proven either by just the transparency it's given into that window is that it's really quite fast and efficient uh maybe there's a little bit of public shaming there too this helped the industry improve so i think jpi has been has been very healthy and a great step forward for the industry as i think about the others iso iso has huge promise all of these new instant payment systems are being built on iso so that provides us a common building block uh where we actually can build uh interaction between message exchange between the systems um i think 24 7 is the other huge one for me i think historically a constraint of all market infrastructures was they tended to operate on the business day of that country and and 24 7 obviously gives us access to the globe all the time and so to me those are really two of the most important building blocks that we've put in place to facilitate cross-border thanks thanks so hey is uh over to you i guess which of these weddings are you going to attend and which ones are you going to send your polite decline to well some of them we may not have any choice about um and yeah include cbdc um you know i'm i'm personally i'm not sure it's um what to what point it that it's needed and where it's going to be used and i'm pretty sure that it's not entirely clear in central banking community either there's quite a diversity of opinion on that um if it comes of course we'll adapt to that but it will be another wedding that we'll have to dance at and we'll require some effort and some some um spend so um we'll see where that leads i'm at at this point i'm a little bit uh doubtful about the immediate application of that maybe longer term it could be interesting in my view probably in the first in the wholesale space and second in the resale space but there are other factors out there that i think drive the central banks to be very interested in that um but i would say that uh you know both the dollar and the euro are already very digital so you know just to create a central banking digital currency is additional and complementary to what's already there and uh you know what we process is 100 digital and you know we're doing it 60 million times a day and i think that's already working in terms of scale and reach and resilience so i think that's that's something good um of the other points i think i agree with ross 24 7 iso are super enabling um and just having those and combining them together with some of the other things we've talked about requests to pay for example uh gpi transaction manager and and putting those building blocks together in kind of an end-to-end global processing chain can be really interesting and can really allow a a new kind of frictionless end-to-end payment processing so i'm pretty excited about that too great thanks i'd echo the thought on the seat on central bank digital currency it's been a fair bit of press on the side of the atlantic recently um and and you say hey it could be complimentary i actually think it compete it actually creates complexity um at the end of the day it is we we have digital today and so it's just a new digital pool so it creates another liquidity pool um and for most people uh consumers or businesses what's the difference it's a claim on the central bank versus the claim on the commercial bank to me it's very complicating and and i'm really kind of skeptical as to what value it adds yeah i agree with you russ i think it was a lot of those points were also made in the in the paper that came out last year from the ecb where they are trying to understand what the different roles could be and uh you know i i think there's really in my view a probably a role to play um in in the cache space because i think they're trying to understand what happens with cash and as as the issuers of cash uh there's a clear interest there but you know once you've done that and you start to apply it everywhere or want to apply it everywhere because you've invested in that that's where i think the confusion can come in and maybe even you know if a lot of hype and activity is spent there it could divert from other valuable and maybe more value-creating activities that we could be doing and i think there's a key lesson there um i you know i can reflect back on the us experience with same-day ach the industry has invested a lot of our money on the same day ach pretty much at the same time it was investing in rtp and it's pretty obvious as to what the better product is but a huge investment was made in both um and and one wonders was that the best use of funds so we don't have i don't think we have the luxury of those decisions going forward that's it's a really good point and really good dialogue um you know from both of you um i i think the point then is back to the you know when do you ditch your dance partner right because i think all of these things are probably exploring right we're we're looking at what are the right areas that we want to take our bets on um but i think you know russ to your point right we can't do everything and is it the best usage of all of our time and effort and investment dollars um to try to do everything and the answer there's is probably no um okay so then i guess you know moving on i want to talk a little bit about collaboration right because i think perhaps this also gets to the point of making our bets together and moving forward together as an industry right because the reality is that they cross border payments ecosystem as it exists today is is made up of many different players and in order to really move forward and innovate we all have to kind of move forward together right and if we're not making the same bets if we're not making the investments in the right places then we could you know end up being um you know quite confused and disorganized right with how things move forward so one of the biggest benefits of this model though is that it provides ubiquity of payments across the globe right so all of these players coming together um you know really gives this ability to make payments anywhere um which you don't get with you know the new close loop ecosystems and the the new networks and fintechs coming on the scene um but we also need to make sure that to retain this benefit this ubiquity of payments everybody needs to move forward together across different jurisdictions about uh you know and across different infrastructures as ut represent um different infrastructures so can you tell us a little bit about how you are collaborating together to move forward together um and hey we'll start with you with this one okay yeah um so the clearinghouse and eba clearing have quite a few common commonalities in their structure their governance uh and there are some institutions that are also shareholders in in both both companies and so you know that creates a kind of a way for the two to naturally come together to talk about certain things that might be um of relevance to to to both sides of the atlantic um and i think also many of our objectives uh line up for example um rtp and rt1 were launched within weeks of each other uh that's uh maybe it's coincidence uh probably not um i think it but there's all of this together it facilitates collaboration generally and so um i think there's been a natural discussion going on over the last few years about ways that that infrastructures might work together i think both also play a role in helping their participants collaborate in in the standards-based non-competitive space to help bring down costs and improve efficiencies and i think with some common objectives uh like for example to remove friction or improve transparency globally there's a we have a great chance to get certain key stakeholders for euro and us dollar around the table and work out possible solutions which can represent the two biggest currencies in the world and which can be expanded to others i think in this process there's a great opportunity to leverage some of those other things that we were talking about before other building blocks that are that are now been around and have been around for a little bit and are also maturing like swift gpi um i think the transaction management platform could also play a role in here and i think that's something we should look at um and i think that in the end though it has to be something that the participants and the banks that are are using the our systems uh want and can use uh without reinventing the wheel i think thanks very much for that news so russ over to you i think hayes is absolutely right i mean one of the things we do is we bring our members together our purpose beyond just running those systems is to help them innovate and it's a forum for collaboration and in doing so we can bring some of the brightest minds in the industry together um which i think is hugely valuable and they also represent a diverse set of stakeholders so we can get diverse views in the room which is also very beneficial it comes with a challenge i think because when you've got diversity of you and business model uh it's hard to get alignment um but i think that's part of the challenge of having these conversations and so so today we're we're working together to try to get some alignment on on how we might move forward with across border uh i think the biggest challenge we're gonna face in that is being bold enough i think when you're when you're building consensus there's a natural tendency to go to the mean and you know the mean is is great sometimes um but it's hardly bold uh and i think you know as we go back to that first question today i think we're in a place where it calls for bold action not me um but i do think that that you know the constituencies that we represent uh and bring together uh have what it takes to to make those bold decisions thanks for letting us it's getting everybody to sort of sing the same tune right not that's not always easy um even in the the best of circumstances right but here we're talking about not just your own communities but your communities working together across different jurisdictions um so russ maybe you could just double click on that a little bit more on the role that you see you know your marketing infrastructure playing and kind of wrangling the community right and getting to that that bold um vision i think it starts we have a common view of what the what the challenge is um so do we do we agree uh that there's a near and present danger or clear and present danger i guess is the better way to describe it um and a rallying cry to actually change i think the next question is so if we believe that change is needed and so the question is why and what's the end state and there i think you've got to look at it through the eyes of the customer and that's something that's a unique ability for the banks right that's not our natural ability for the market infrastructure so as you start to look through the eyes of the customer whether it's a corporate or a consumer i think that's really where you have to start in terms of what's the ultimate objective and work backwards from there um so so i do think you know we're that's a process that we have to go through and hopefully we get to a place where there's a very strong bold consensus and then the next question is you know can we rally around that um and i think the good news is that you know both of our organizations have senior representation and and so it's so we can take this to the top of the house and the banking community and actually uh look for support there which i think is going to be essential because the other challenge that i think you'll see in any change like this is the power of incumbency uh and incumbents are strong and there's incumbents within banks and and so the incumbency will fight against change um and for that it really does take somebody who's looking at an enterprise level uh to support the change for that so hayes yeah i think i would echo the points that russ made also before which is that in order to be bold enough there has to be a vision that is willing to take a risk and a risk of breaking things um that are working really well um in the understanding and belief that that creating new things is is going to be good and really valuable and i think that's that's hard because there's a lot of inertia uh in industry and along customer solutions that are currently in place and they work really well and a lot of people say well why change it works great but there are a couple of things we've talked about the regulatory push but there's also some competitive push for for a number of institutions that are driving them to have to innovate and find solutions that that can drive um consumer behavior in a positive direction and a really good user experience and i think you know when the industry responds in a um in a in a global and a in a thoughtful way and is ready to be a little bit bold and you don't have to spend a lot of money to actually be a little bit bold here um and then take a couple of uh chances and leverage what we've got we can create something truly uh amazing yeah one thing to avoid i think is the quick fix uh you know i think if we look back to the history of banking here's a shiny new product and we can roll it out and we've got this spaghetti of technology in the background and we'd layer in the quick fix and the spaghetti bowl just got bigger but we got something out the door as opposed to sometimes you really do need to take that fresh piece of paper and i think our team one and rtp represent that opportunity to have true straight through processing um so so i think we have to resist the quick fix a little bit too yeah i couldn't i couldn't agree more with that statement um you know sometimes you have quick fixes that are in place for 10 or 15 years uh some cases uh even longer and uh if we're not careful then you know getting there quickly could could lead to suboptimal results and i think that's that's really important and i think it's also really important other points that we've decided before that we mentioned before in terms of keeping focus and not dancing at too many weddings ditching the dance partners that are that are not uh not good dancers are not getting forward um and the tricky thing is you know what if that's uh you know and nelly that uh might get a little bit offended by that but uh sometimes uh and nelly might have to have an understanding yeah yeah no absolutely sometimes you have to be a bit controversial with these things but on that point right um you know maybe in the the spirit of perhaps being a little bit controversial but i think that the willingness is actually there to make these bold changes right we're talking about the bold versus the incremental and and trying to you know wake the the broader industry and ecosystem up to really be bold you're not being his past habits do you think that willingness is there please start with you um yeah unless i do actually think that there is a broad willingness um to do some of this change and take it forward i think that um the time is quite right we have a number of factors converging pressures conversion and i think um it is there that kind of the the thing is focus um and i think there are different perceptions of the different stakeholders whether they're banks regulators or customers on the speed of change or even the need to change um that need to take into account um but the willingness i think is there um i think what and why we need to change is is getting clearer all the time i think a lot of factors have been brought up in different reports coming out um exactly how to get there and how much it's going to cost and what value it brings this is still something that the participants are exploring and on a general note we need to also keep in mind that you know various payment systems that are that are operate around the world have unique properties and and value propositions and whilst technology might come together and standards might come together to create efficiencies you know banks have to decide you know how fast versus how liquidy the efficient things need to be they need to understand also where they want to make trades in order to optimize this product or that product so i think um the the future is bright um and the willingness is there um provided we can keep ourselves focused on the future yeah all right lots of positivity so russ over to you i know i it i think this is the bank's game to to lose in my view um so you've you've got the footprint today you've got the dda um you you've got these new building blocks that we've put in place i think there's every reason to believe that banks can succeed and should succeed i think the other one they've got is trust and so when we think about the libra as an example um and other large tech platforms that have huge scale which is a tremendous advantage in many cases they lack trust and i do think that that's not something we should never underestimate so i think we do have the the right to win here and i think we we could and should um so so i'm very optimistic to be honest that's great all right great to hear some optimism from both of you on this so look in in closing out um and maybe this also goes to that point about trust right the trust is there because we've got ecosystem and regulatory uh regulatory landscape and compliance landscape that's all built towards creating something that's very industrial strength that meets requirements that um is lined with the different jurisdictional views around the world and governments around the world and you know what while that creates this very you know an industrial strength ecosystem uh that can handle these large payment volume and values i guess there are also friction points right that these differences that you can have or this very complex overall view um from the regulatory and and standards perspective can create so i guess how how could um global policy makers like cpmi what could they do to do more to help standardize or embrace some of the modern technologies that are out there and remove some of these friction points that emerge from the fact that we're dealing with lots of different you know structures and requirements and jurisdictions around the world and russ we will start with you on this one so i think i think the first gpi our cpm is sorry have done that i think is right in the g20 is it's a call for action and so i think that and competitive pressures are hugely helpful in terms of helping the industry move forward uh i think their motivations are also right um so a lot of it is around just more efficient payment systems for shelves gdp it's financial inclusion these are all very positive things and and we support them i think the risk that that cpmi runs is it views the world through the lens of a regulator so i'll go back to where i was a minute ago which is it really has to be the end user uh that is driving the outcomes here uh not the regulator and so there aren't any silver bullets right this is this is going to be hard work and and most of the work is going to have to be on the backs of the private sector um whether that's the technology the user experience the illegal constructs um from the risk models all of that is is something that the private sector is going to have to wrestle with um so so i would kind of implore the cpmi to to not get in the way of what we need to do in terms of interfacing with and understanding the customer challenge um and help us in some of the things which are theirs right and so so clearly cross-border transactions today the biggest point of friction is is the regulatory overlap overhang uh that attaches to those payments and that's the place i think they can help thanks for that russ so hey i i couldn't agree more on on those points i i think the um the private sector has a big role to play in making it happen and putting the technology in place and putting the standards and processing and rules in place to make it all work um and i think we don't need a whole lot of help on that um other than to just keep the focus but i think the other the biggest thing that the the private sector and especially um embodies like cpmi or fsb who have an interest in financial inclusion and i've written a very lengthy report on this is to really take some of the big frictions which which the participants have these days which is around anti-money laundering and sanctions screening where in every country every jurisdiction it can it's different the standards are different and so even finding technology to deal with that that's it's out there but where a lot of value could be created is in in harmonizing some of those and creating the ability to do some more processing at the center rather than always at the end and i think that would remove a lot of cost and a lot of concern that um industry players have in handling transactions correctly at a reasonable cost yeah one thing you mentioned the other day haze was with safe harbor yeah i think that's gonna be it's it's a tough thing i think for the regulators to get their heads wrapped around because they like to strangle lots of throats when things go wrong but technology has evolved and i think the regulatory framework and landscape needs to evolve with it and a lot can be done at the center that is that is impossible to do at the end points and so i'm hopeful folks can embrace that and and as hey said safe harbor is key to that yeah i think safe harbor is something i've been talked about for a long time and maybe it's that time wasn't ripe in the past but with the technologies that are out there and models of global supervision global oversight that are in place for different entities including swift and cls and others i think there could be an opportunity to create even in the aml and sanction space a kind of agreement that could be applied uh globally and still be adaptive and i think that's uh some of the um challenges for the future also for the public sector is to try to make that happen to enable this that sounds like sorry go ahead sorry just to one last point there is models existing in the world today that at the center have clearly identified a path to be much more effective and than the current approach so i think we've got to shine some light on that and and help the regulators get to that place i would hope so it sounds like a willingness to kind of be open-minded already not stuck in our preconceived notions around how these specific things should work but there might be more efficient ways of doing it in a centralized way than you know um non-centralized as it exists today might be the best way to approach this but a willingness for also the regulators and um you know uh bodies like cpmi to also help uh echo the importance of being open-minded when trying to tackle these these issues okay great so that brings us to the end of our chat today so thank you both very much for your time i think a very very enlightening conversation um appreciate both of your time thanks melissa thank you very much appreciate it

Channel: SibosTV

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Keywords: Payments

Id: oEZ2pNiZItY

Length: 41min 5sec (2465 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 29 2021