Shoot out at Weaver Needle

This is Larry Hedrick for histories of  superstition mountains where we bring the   past into the present for our future viewers today  we have another great story by Jack San Felice.   This story is the story of Ed Piper and Celeste  Marie Jones called shootout at weaver's needle   but the tail itself takes in  a whole lot more story than   weaver's needle and that one  shootout it didn't take long   it was a big buildup to the shootout well  Celeste Marie Jones a supposed opera singer from   Illinois or California came to Arizona in 1946  she came here with a story of Jesuit riches   buried in the superstition mountains that's 1946  is when she comes here most people think that Ed   Piper was here first he got all the coverage no...  Ed Piper didn't come here until 1952. so if I do   my math depend on the month it could be six or  seven years she was here and had an opportunity   to meet with people and try to get something going  in the mountains in the superstitions you see   she believed weaver's needle was the  location of the lost Jesuit treasure   now just a little history what is this lost Jesuit  treasure how what was she talking about how did we   get to the superstition mountains well in 1767  Carols III of Spain recalled all of the priests   in the Jesuit order or society of Jesus recalled  them all from North America, South America   and Europe and Asia they were recalled back  to Spain some of them had never been to Spain   were born and raised in other countries but he  recalled all of them and he put an edict out   called the expulsion of the Jesuits you see  he believed that the Jesuits were in fact   not giving him his one-fifth of all the silver  and gold that was coming from the various parts   of the world where they were at now why were  the Jesuits involved in mining anyhow well   if you look at history most of the people  who could read and write were either royalty   or they were priests so the priests  were charged with the responsibility   especially in the new world of maintaining  logs of mining activities mines how much was   taken how much agriculture was going on how  many ranchers there were etc, etc, etc and   wars if there were wars with the indians or wars  with other people uh um disruptions to mining etc   they wrote it and he felt that he wasn't getting  his fair share. remember at that time Span,   French, England they've all got a war for 100  years he kept trying to replace his coffers   and but here's the deal this is why Celeste  Marie Jones believed that believe that   silver and gold and jewels and church artifacts  made it into the superstitions for one you   could see weaver's needle for miles miles and  miles. two there were spies in the king's court   he let people in the Jesuit society know when the  soldiers were coming in fact they were rounded up   with by soldiers there's a whole book on it and  it a fellow by the name a priest by the name of   Juniper Sarah, Juniper Sarah wrote all about the  expulsion of the Jesuits and they were supposed   to be expo expelled for 100 years. 100 years  okay so they they're doing this roundup and   of all the priests and they  were leaving things behind   now she believed that the church artifacts  like golden crosses that were found   in various parts of the world uh silver which  was the coinage the coinage of the day was silver   the the money was stamped and printed in if you  heard the tail pieces of eight well they had coin   by the size of a dollar and you could knock pieces  of it off cut pieces off eight pieces you could   break it into eight pieces and that was worth  so much money so the silver money whatever gold   there was gold crucifixes etc etc were supposed  to be in all these churches the mission churches   throughout the throughout the country... the  world and he believed he was not getting it   and so he sent the soldiers out to take them and  bring them out well like I said the spies got the   word to the Jesuits in the new world and they they  supposedly gathered up their treasures and took it   north into where apacheria and that's what the  superstition mountains were called in those days   it was the land of the apaches so they came up  into that land buried those treasures somewhere   because when she came here she saw that the most  prominent landmark for miles and miles and miles   you can see this weaver's needle she believed  that was the location so she hired some people   she got some funding started digging started  blasting that she used black powder and dynamite   in those days now she was here in  1946 now here comes Ed Piper, Ed Piper   many people thought was there first no Ed Piper  probably read about this woman after all it was an   enigma she was a black woman supposedly an opera  singer and no other woman had done any searching   in the superstition mountains for gold since  Julia Thomas in 1892 almost 50 years go by and   now there's here's another woman and she comes  in and she's a different color than most people   and so she's has all this excitement about  her and she generates the story of the Jesuits   and not only is she... the more she talks about  it I believe the more she believes it herself   so I believe that's how Ed Piper saw it  in a newspaper somewhere Ed Piper in 1952   he lost his wife and his mother all at  the same time and he had been a farmer   in Kansas and in Idaho and all his life  he'd been a farmer he wasn't a miner   he wasn't a treasure hunter he didn't do that for  a living he did he didn't know I died if he knew   what gold in the raw look like so here he comes  and there's this woman that's there she has a   camp and her camp is up on the heights so she can  control the traffic coming and going her people   with guns when I say guns handguns as well as  rifles so here comes Ed Piper he makes a camp   not on the heights he makes a  camp at a spring just to the west   and sort of to the south of weaver's needle in  fact that spring is still called piper spring   to this day on the maps and it had running water  when I was there in the 90s it had running water   there was water there so water below the needle of  course there were a lot was a lot more rain then   but nevertheless piper moves his people in there  and he gathers a group of people around him called   piper's army and that's what it was called they  wore six guns about that long they carried rifles   shotguns and they set up a camp by the spring  not only did they set up a camp for piper but   piper started growing vegetables and started  growing fruit trees and roses here in the desert   in the middle of the desert he's trying to  grow roses but he has water and all this water   is it has become an issue with  Jones's group on the heights for now   there's starting to be a conflict between the two  groups when they go down to get water for their   animals we get water just to live on otherwise  you've got to bring water in with you somewhere   there's a conflict and there's going to  there's hard words harsh words between the two   well this kind of goes on for quite a while  Celeste Jones hires guys that are marksmen and   what she does during the day when Piper's group is  out and about their camp she will have a marksman   shoot at them but not to hurt them shoot close  to them to spook them and it was called dusting   dusting Piper's army it was what she called it so  the bullets would hit in the desert the dust and   they'd get all excited in matter of fact ed piper  hires himself a marksman and what he does he does   the same thing so they are shooting uphill so  you got guys with long guns and then you got   these these strange folks that are they they are  clustered with either camp Ed Piper hires this guy   this fellow called himself Jewel Holder well  guess what Jewel Holder was not his name   he was to visit the Apache Sentinel all the  time he didn't have he didn't have any problems   in many of the papers had his photograph in  it well guess what somebody saw the photograph   and started getting a little question mark in  their head could this guy be John Gilbert Strong   who had escaped from a mental institute in Newark  New Jersey yeah it was him he was given 30 years   in prison for a violent rape now  John Gilbert Strong alias Jewel Holder he was quite a character he hits he  was married had seven kids but yet   was put in jail for rape well that's the type of  character that clustered around Jones and Piper   nobody did background checks on them they came  out and said ah can you shoot a gun yeah are you   afraid to shoot a gun no will you shoot at other  people yeah well that's what they had so for years   this went on I mean years this animosity between  the two groups it finally broke out in 1959   Celeste Marie Jones got I guess got tired of the  of the fact that Ed Piper's not leaving and his   soldiers aren't leaving so she hired this young  man 22 years old just out of the marines I believe   Robert Saint Marie odd that his name would be  part of her name Marie St Marie Celeste Marie   Jones... Jones had given some guidance to Saint  Marie to take care of Ed Piper November 11 1959   out of the heights comes Saint  Marie he goes down to Piper's camp   Piper's alone that's why he's there he's not going  to have any interference from any of his gunmen   so they probably were given a day off or whatever  or probably and by then probably they were coming   and going they weren't just there steady because  Ed Piper had that money to pay him and Ed Piper   had funders he had funders people that funded  his operation here comes St Marie and what's he   do he said once you get out of here get off this  claim get out of here you're not wanted here get   and and then he turns like he's going to leave and  this is testimony of Ed Piper and when he turns to   leave ed piper thought this was kind of wacky so  he jumped behind a boulder and at that same time   Robert Saint Marie turned with his gun to shoot  ed piper ed piper's gun was already out it was   a long revolver probably a 357 or 45 colt bam bam  bam he shoots Robert St Marie now the most of the   people won't tell you what happened  next what happened next Piper said   at the at the coroner's inquest he went Marie  didn't die right away so he went up and talked   to him he said son what did you do that for why  did you spook me why did you aim your gun at me   why did you want to shoot me he said he was paid  money by Celeste Marie Jones to come and do this   and he said he'd already gotten some of the  money and piper says in his testimony he says   son I'm sorry I had to shoot you but you gave me  no choice give me no choice Robert St Marie dies   okay there's a coroner's inquest now  that that is different than a grand jury   in the 1950s where there were rural areas  generally where there was no law enforcement   per se they the coroner went out and did an  examination did an investigation and called forth   about six people from the county and then  and that would make up a coroner's jury and   that's the way it was in Arizona all the way back  from the 1800s coroner's jury for these cases   so he holds a jury and brings them together in  Florence and Celeste Marie Jones is to testify   and then Ed piper's to testify Celeste Marie Jones gets up at the inquest she waves the hat   of Robert Saint Marie and said they murdered that  young boy he was a nice young man he would never   have done this never have done this waved his hat  he said they were assassins I watched them do it through binoculars and so she was  all disturbed about what had happened   now Ed Piper comes and it's his turn  he says well this is what happened   he came to my camp challenged me pulled a  gun on me and I was lucky that i was able to   I was expecting something and because I was alone  and here comes this stranger armed and he's acting   nervous he said I knew something was going to  happen so he readied himself he jumped behind the   boulders etc. etc. etc. the coroner's jury nodded their hair yeah self-defense self-defense   and in fact they acquitted Ed Piper of any wrongdoing and the coroner's report said   self-defense death by self-defense and wrote up  the story of course the papers get it and it goes   and in all the papers of the day especially the  Apache Sentinel while all of this is going on   another name jumps out out of the woodwork and  it's Bob Ward well what's Bob Ward got to do with   this Bob Ward is over he's way out of the way  Ward's cabin was over there on Peralta road etc   Bob Ward in his book and statements by others said  that by Bob Garman in his book said that Bob Ward   was called upon to act as a mediator  between the two parties well you got a   one crazy woman and another crazy guy old  right and then you bring in a third guy   these are all that's the temperament of  what was happening at weaver's needle   so there's a lot more than just a shooting by the  way 14 days after the death of Robert Saint Marie Vern Rowley one of Piper's men were shot  and killed by persons or persons unknown   is the way the report read and that's the  way they wrote it in those days died by per   by persons or persons unknown by gunshot  and that was right at weaver's needle and in 1959 to 1963 several people were murdered  murdered out at the area of weaver's needle   weren't found some not to three or four years  later like a fellow by the name of Jabez Clapp   who lived the life of a hermit but he'd like to  go around with his camera and take photos of these   crazy miners he got caught up in it he got shot  and died others were shot and died in that area   in the 60s and then always 70s all the way into  the 90s this shooting out in the superstition   mountains occurred some people thought maybe  there was a homicide homicidal maniac let me   get that right it's a homicidal maniac was running  loose out in the 70s in the superstition mountains   just arbitrarily shooting people and killing  people does this happen sure it does happens   today all you have to do is read the papers see  what's going on today well what became a Ed Piper Ed Piper by the way had his men climbing  and he had claims on top of the needle   mining claims on top of the needle but before his  claims were there Celeste Marie Jones claims were   there also so they had claims on the needle around  the needle and in east boulder that area looking   for what Jesuit treasure and looking for gold they  also believe that the lost dutchman mine was there   at the needle also that it wasn't a mine that  was some of the gold from the Jesuit treasure   and that was Celeste Marie Jones idea as well as  Ed Piper they both believed in the Jesuit treasure   now part of this story is true in 1767 the Jesuits  were expelled the Jesuits were in charge of   recording the mining and what was uh of value and  how much was shipped and how much wasn't ship but   if you look at it at those days a lot of Spanish  galleons sunk and maybe a lot of that can be   attributed to the fact that the gold was and the  silver was mine and it was because when they went   into Mexico back in the 1500s and that's when it  started Cortez took all the gold that he got off   of the Aztec chief Montezuma and then they subdued  the Aztecs and took all their and made them work   as slaves so they had this thing about  gold... well Ed Piper works for a while and then he's not doing well he's getting sick  and sicker and something's wrong with them   they take them into the hospital  in florence a small hospital   and they find out that he's got cancer  well Ed Piper dies in august of 1962.   there were nine vehicles in his funeral ceremony  and he was taken to this old cemetery between   florence and coolidge and buried in pauper's  field now ed piper was broke he had no money   somebody provided a new blue suit for him he was  buried in a blue suit in pauper's field and in the   area known as potter's where potter's graves were  where they buried poor people no headstone etc   his wish his dying wish was that  he'd be buried at weaver's needle   but the papers report that he was laid in the  grave doesn't mean he stayed there didn't mean   his friends those guys that were dedicated  to him especially young Bernie Gerhart was 27   who he looked on Ed Piper as a father figure  he had no father so he may have gone back   exhumed the remains after things died down  and actually took him out there and buried   him we don't know nobody knows that's  one of the mysteries where is Ed Piper   I don't believe anybody ever dug up they probably  couldn't find out where his grave is today   in potter's field in that old  cemetery outside of florence   Ed Piper's gone but that doesn't mean things have  died down well what happened to Celeste Marie Jones   well look I didn't have to kill the old  man he died on his own all it did was wait   all I'd do was wait a year or two and that was  it she's still searching for funds now where did   Celeste Marie Jones get her money from  Celeste Marie Jones supposedly had some   heavyweight backers here in Arizona Bob  Corbin the attorney general at that time   I have a photo of him with Marie Jones and he  supposedly was one of her benefactors that he   wanted he wanted to hedge his bets in other  words he was searching for the lost dutchman mine   when she was out there already doing the  work for him if he gave her a little money   he'd get an interest he'd sign off and he'd get  so much so he was hedging his bet that's one guy   there were other people that were very  prominent one a owned many many grocery   stores supposedly gave her some money also now  another story comes out that she charged or sold   shares for a dollar a piece to all the members  of her congregation and she went back to   California and collected money and came back she  convinced them she was convinced in her own mind   that that treasure had to be there Piper was he  wouldn't leave they had to die before he would   leave it's got to be there so she what does  she do she says I've got to go back on the top   I got to go back on the top of the needle  and she hires an engineer named Vance Bacon and he's on top of the needle and  he's doing a mineral assessment   could there be mineral there could there  be an entrance up there a matter of fact   Ed Piper when he was there on top  of the needle he had his men working   in an eight-foot slit right on top of weaver's  needle digging trying to find an entrance   inside one story back to Ed Piper why he was there  Ed Piper tells the story that some Indian friends   of his said on top of the needle there are two  rooms and in the two rooms are buried the tombs   of some of the ancient indians on top of  the needle and with them other treasure and   artifacts are been put in there wow wow so that  that just stirred the pot a little more for him   and gave him the impetus to keep on going he was  going to be sure to get it first well he died now Celeste Marie Jones goes up she gets her back  by the way Ed Piper had put a rope ladder on   the side of the needle he put a 60-foot rope  ladder and that's the way Ed Piper climbed up   that is the way he climbed up and came down at  the tough part of the needle 60 feet well the   needle's over 500 feet tall and it's all crazy and  rocky and very very difficult to get up other some   people I know a person says they've climbed to the  top of weaver's needle I know at least two people   it says they've climbed to the top they weren't  rock climbers they were hikers and they made it   okay so she hired this guy to get back to  Vance Bacon 30 year old mining engineer he what happened to him he fell 500 feet to his  death from the top of the needle so this now this   is in all the papers again it generates  excitement to sell a lot of newspapers   death sells especially death at weaver's needle  now his friend was there with him at the time   and the time he fell and his  friend one of his friends said that   Bacon was not he didn't fall accidentally he was  pushed off the needle because he was going to   write a report that said no mineral no mineral are  on top of the needle it contained no minerals no   treasure no nothing there was no opening other  than what Ed Piper had done a slit that they   were starting now get back to uh Mr Piper for a  minute Ed had all of these people coming and going   and they were still roaming around the  countryside without jobs you think about   it Ed dead his money's dried up they didn't leave  they were still here and they became part of that   group of people that drank in the bars in  apache junction during the 50s and early 60s   and they all wore big guns etc etc so they were  still there some of them probably were hired by   Celeste Marie Jones maybe one of them did  push Bacon to his death now Bacon's friend he   got stranded on the needle he wasn't coming  down there was no way he was coming down   that rope ladder because coming down was  worse than going up twisted and turned   it was very dangerous he had to be rescued by  a military helicopter out of Wright field so   they get him off things kind of quiet down  at the needle for a little bit but not   until all those shootings that took place and  desks surrounding the needle in the early 60s   and there were several of them several  of them people looking for it and they   still were looking for that treasure and they  believed that the dutchman's gold was there now what happened to Celeste Marie Jones   the forest service had her having 10  claims Piper had about 10 or 11 claims the forest service went to close the  books on Jones and Piper... Piper's gone   think his claims are null  and void because he can't   renew him and she doesn't renew hers  but they got to serve the actual papers they can't find her finally  somebody gives up where she's at   she's in the insane asylum in downtown phoenix  she had been declared mentally incompetent   by somebody she was there so they go to  serve these papers on Celeste Marie Jones   she's not there she had signed  off on a weekend pass and left   and so the government has to find her to serve  these papers they do find her finally at a   friend's house they serve the papers but guess  what she had got over on the government again   because she was declared mentally incompetent  they could not hold her accountable   for cleaning up all the holes she dug all the  blasting she did what is it about weaver's needle   that draws men like flies to honey the lure of gold is what it was now it can be said that there   is a epitaph for those that came to weaver's needle some came to search and some came to die I don't a lot of them came to die because nobody found gold or the Jesuit treasure   and let me tell you there's been folks there's been a lot looking for it and even today there are   die-hard Jesuit searchers and they're out there and they're looking for that treasure of the lost dutchman's mind or they're looking for the treasure the lost church treasure of the Jesuits   and that my friends is the mystery one  of the mysteries of the superstition   thank you for watching this episode of  Mysteries of the Superstition Mountains

Channel: Mysteries of the Superstition Mountains

Views: 26,823

Keywords: Charlie LeSueur, Superstition Mountains, The Lost Dutchman Mine, Superstition Mountain Museum, Opal Images, Arizona, History, Gold, Treasure, Weavers Needle, Jack San Felice, Larry Hedrick, Ed Piper, Marie Jones, Jesuit Gold, Tresure, Jesuit, Lost Dutchman Mine, Mining at Weaver Needle, Feud, Jones Piper Feud, Murder on the mountain

Id: 95a6vrezo98

Length: 35min 10sec (2110 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 31 2020