Shepherd's Conference 2013/General Session 5/Question & Answer

now I want to start with the question for John and and actually a confession John I prepare my sermons on a computer [Music] who's talking to us you yeah well I'm not seeking absolution I just I want to set up I want to set up this question for you I I prepare my sermon notes on a computer and then I actually marked them up with a flare pen and all that's an abomination to you I heard you recently say that you think that that is not the best way to go and so I wanted to ask you to give us your thoughts on that on sermon preparation and your use of pen and ink and all of that I really feel that writing with a pen especially a fountain pen slows me down because sometimes I have to change the ink that slows me down again it's almost a sacramental act to change the ink isn't it let me tell you something well the answer to that is no but slow is better than fast sometimes people ask me where do you get all that and that you say and and my simple answer is I think about that I think my chair goes up so I can write and read it goes back so I can think I spent as much time back as I do up for me slapping something together from all kinds of sources on the computer and coming off with a printout and then taking that into a pulpit is really not an efficient way to handle the Word of God because you have to think deeply you have to meditate you have to pursue things you have to chase around in your Bible so a pen for me slows everything down it it gives me an opportunity to think I talked to one of the guys that I work with and he said he tried that after doing all the sermons on computers and then had a mental effect first of all he had ten times more data going in than he then he'd ever had before because when you slap something together that's very different than doing a rough graph by hand of everything you're thinking about amusing and contemplating and drawing out I just think it enriches the process and so I and I I think great preachers write their sermons that was then I would think that you guys do just because I know actually the way you said it last time was you didn't know of a single great preacher who didn't do it that way don't you Pierce me to the heart but I actually don't know of any preacher who uses a flare pen using an iPad and a bamboo stylus so I took a step up okay actually all of you know you need to hear from Alan that's what I'm gonna ask a question about this but I wanted to let all you guys know that every one of these men except for me is a pen aficionado and I mean they are serious about it they were talking about it at dinner last night pens and and nibs and and they know the brand names and the and the all the inks and all that stuff it's fascinating and probably the best expert of all is al Mohler give us your thoughts about the use of a pen and preparation of your sermons I think it's just under the level of creedal orthodoxy in all seriousness it's it's not a matter of of an ironclad conviction but it is a matter of I think the fact that we're associating was something that began long before ourselves I think there are certain habits a man needs to have that his great-grandfather would have had and in this world that those are increasingly difficult to time and the use of a pen in a man's hand is different than the use of the keyboard you actually will think differently you're you cognitive processes will operate differently there are studies that have been done showing that if high school and college aged young men in particular because men are tactile learners if high school boys and and those in college will switch from taking notes on a computer to taking notes with pen and paper they will retain more and it is because you're doing something with your hand that requires a complete different set of cognitive skills than if you're working at a keyboard what you see on a keyboard all looks the same you can forget it what your M if you look at my sermon notes it written out in in always pen and ink what what you're gonna notice you can tell my moods on the paper you can tell what I think is important you know I you can tell my mind you can you can see how ideas are being shaped if you're looking at that which is an entire area of knowledge it's going to be completely lost on a generation that just works in a digital world that's true with John - I always go back when I'm editing his material to look at the sermon notes he preached from and you can tell his moods he writes things in the margin that tells them what to emphasize it's fascinating and almost illegible to John's handwriting is is and I'm not joking it's John wouldn't confess this I think his handwriting it's not particularly read up you know that that may be bad but I'll tell you the worst Steve Lawson's wife writes calm down inside his sermon [Applause] yeah is that true no but she sits on the front row and gives me what's known as the look which means settle down yeah darling does that for me too I appreciate that but I there been times when I've encountered in John's notes stuff I just couldn't make out I can usually figure out what he writes and I took it to him and showed him that and said what does this say and he looked at it and he said I don't know and I said but but you're preaching from that when you get to that he can't read your own handwriting what do you do and his answer was he's not that tied to the notes and so I wanted to talk about that as well how tied are you let's say Steve how tied are you to what you actually wrote because I'll admit I'm I'm pretty tied to my notes sure I'm tied in the introduction I don't want to get up and ramble I I don't like pastors who kind of a speech before a speech before a speech before a speech before they get into the message I I really want to hit the ground running and so if any part of my sermon has been rewritten and rewritten and tightened and using a thesaurus to try to expand the word selection it would be in the introduction I don't do it for the conclusion because at that point the momentum of the preaching event has has carried me at such a rapid pace that I don't need it at the end but I do need it at the beginning and and I there's an economy of words as well in the main body of the message I don't have a percentage or anything but for me it's read the text explained the text and exhort with the text and the explanation of the text I've given careful thought as to its interpretation the exegesis and so I'm fairly connected at that point with the exhortation which would be like the implication of the text and the application that's a little bit more of the heat at the moment and you're looking up to make eye contact to connect it to the listener and you get more to the you of the sermon I'm not as tied although I have written it out nevertheless to try to discipline my own thoughts to think through the targets that I want to hit to relate this text of people so heavy with the introduction let a little bit less with the explanation and then less with the exhortation well my sense would be of all these men up here you're probably the most extemporaneous how I'm a typical sermon say a 45-minute sermon how many pages of notes would you bring into the pulpit six days really they are not sentences right they are speaking units they I speak off of what I call a speaking outline it's it's it's points that are made transitions and that's why the Pens also important to me is because mine looks like a map if you look at my sermon notes so there's an arrow going over here and then an arrow that comes down here there's an inserted quotation that I want to put here and that quotation is usually just if it's short I try to memorize it if it's longer I write it out sometimes it's just a name that I'm going to go to in order to make the point but you know you every preacher has to do what works for him as he stands in the pulpit and has the responsibility rightly to divide the word of truth and and to preach the Word of God but I make no apology for carrying notes I think the person who says I never use notes probably demonstrable needs to but on the other hand i I don't slavish ly follow them because it is an event and and the word is alive and so is the congregation and so you're in a constant sense of awareness of maybe I need to spend a little more time here I can move more quickly here you know just add a footnote to that Phil I think the genius of all of this is that you know and have in your mind a whole lot more than you have in your notes which is the way it has to be if you have in front of you everything you know about a subject you are stuck with those notes if you have in your mind less than you have in your notes you really in serious trouble this Q&A that I've actually used the map system you talked about with the arrows sometimes when I do a late edit to my notes I'll draw an arrow here and write something down here and that never fails to confuse me when I get in the pulpit so is that I write only on one side of the paper which is the right side of the notebook and then I can at points insert something on the back of the previous page as as you have a thought and so again couldn't do that with a computer but you can do that with a pen yeah with the computer you have to go back that's pretty easy to do actually [Applause] pretty easy to do unless you have to be sitting on the front row when you have the thoughts at which point it's harder to do how many how many times out would you get up and start a message in a way that you had not at all planned and you just come up there and in the time you were there you're listening to the hymns you're thinking you you you restructured the beginning and maybe a whole lot of the rest high restructure the introduction many times especially as as you just imply as you find yourself also in a situation in which the context of worship what comes before you and I'll tell you it as you well know because you're a master at this what's the real challenge is when you got to get up after someone else has preached and you can't let what they just said be the last word to the congregation here's on this and you got to find some kind of a direct way to say that's not right yeah that'll work if you put it in a prayer it's more noble well in Southern Baptist life what we do is the next guy gets up and goes well bless his heart [Laughter] notes of a sermon he preached four years ago and and can you pull them out then and come right back to that sermon yeah I can I wouldn't come right back to it but I I could step right back into work it then would you rewrite the notes or would you just add rewrite the notes okay every time Tom how many pages of notes do you take into the pulpit well if I had a memory like owls I would only take in what he takes them but but I take in typically for a 4550 minute message of my church I'll take in about twelve pages of notes I don't use them slavishly but in case I have a slip of memory of where I want to go I'm there I tell you the other real benefit for me is John and your encouragement try to invest 30 hours a week and study I don't want to lose that 30 hours no worried and and I'm not going to remember all the nuances that I discovered in that study so capturing it in a more permanent form is is good for me not only to think it through in terms of making me more exact in what I want to say but also in in securing it for the future so it's not lost now let me also go through starting with John we'll work this way and each of you give just a brief description of how it is you prepare your sermons I remember thirty years ago today I actually walked into your office and for the first time saw how you prepare your sermons and it blew me away you had books all around you in the front and in the back open books just literally surrounded you 360 degrees talk about how you do that well I mean the objective is to understand the meaning of the text first of all interpretation but first of all you you want to get an accurate reading of what you're dealing with so I know what the text is because I'm going through books first thing I do is get into the original text in the New Testament find out what the Greek and what those syntax lexicography whatever it is the issues that are there take notes on an eight-and-a-half by 14 pad just regarding each verse and any textual issues so I know I'm dealing with the real text and I and I understand that then I begin to surround myself with commentaries well the reason that I I'm not the first person the Holy Spirit has illuminated there's a history of illuminated people and I want to I want to touch base with all of them I don't want to leave anybody out and so and and most of the people I read are dead there are a few that are alive a lot of what is produced today is devotional kind of things I don't really need that so I would read maybe 15 commentaries and I would take copious notes on everything they have to say I'm you know if you're reading Lenski who's a sort of a Lutheran sacramental approach I get I get an interpretation within a context of his of his Lutheranism his Sasser total kind of approach so that that helps me to understand how he thinks I might read William Hendrickson which is reformed rich in theology and historic theology so I'm just trying to take advantage of everything that is there because I don't want to miss anything that the Holy Spirit is illuminated in an evident revelation of truth what I'm saying is you read things and you say it doesn't make sense I don't see that there I think that's pushing the point but then there are those times as you read something you say that's absolutely true and it's supported so I I want to take advantage of all that that's where most of those hours for me are eaten up in exposing myself to the range of guys that have that have something to say about a text within a framework in which in which they have interpreted the whole book I mean that's very important you don't want to just pull something out of the air on a chapter because you know they've had to make this work in the entire book beginning to end write an introduction that's where commentaries helping and so let's say at this point the notes you're taking are kind of random order these are the same notes you're gonna take yeah at the poll they're all over the page there you couldn't really read them they're kind of a shorthand you know I can tell what letters and what words they are just by this curves and things so I'm just amassing all this data and in the process of that it becomes clear to me what the point of this is and then I begin to go back to those notes and I'll write in a an introduction there kind of a basic introduction this is where I'm going I'll write a basic conclusion this is where I want to end and then I'll begin to formulate an outline but those don't get firmly fixed until everything is done in terms of the exposition so I'm not imposing that text on my my idea I'm rather letting the text tell me what what the flow is you actually write your introduction and conclusion before you do the heart of the sermon I don't write them fully out I just write the idea or the notion of it and then that subject to change particularly on introduction I unlike Steve I I think more about the introduction than I do about the conclusion because there is a momentum and sometimes it's a dynamic and rather explosive conclusion and that that can happen sometimes and sometimes maybe like this morning I kind of ran out of time and and just kind of a little little let's sing him you know so you know sometimes you have a conclusion sometimes you stop but hopefully in the process you have made those people encounter that text so that that they have seen the beauty and the magnificence and the wonder of that text regardless of you know how you finished with a flourish or without a flourish but all of that sort of gets that's sort of the last thing for me because how can I introduce and conclude what I'm not sure of God so I have to know that the flow of the message first and then all of that is reduced by hand with a pen to notes no one ever sees anything I preach but me no one ever sees that I do all of that and all the processes and I come into the pulpit with handwritten notes and as you know I use a little red pen and kind of highlight was a big talk about that as well well I just use red you know they're like landing lights for me I'm looking for two things the key statements key clarifications explanations critical I can add the stuff in the middle and maybe one other thing transitions transitions are very important you got to move people logically from one thing to the next and you don't necessarily you know want to leave that to spontaneity you want to think through your transitions that's why people outline they don't outline because you know it's it's clever they outline because that's how you move people from one idea in the next so yeah so I write that all out and then I when I finally go over it my sermons on Saturday that's when I take the red pin out and I highlight and it almost becomes like Al's arrows it becomes tracks for me to follow I don't read the sermon I didn't read anything I gave you this morning and I say I didn't read any that I think I had five pages in my hand of handwritten notes but but I'm so familiar with him I've looked at him so many times I come in here off of looking at them the little red markers kind of moved me through now I see your sermon notes after you've preached and well it seems to me lots of times you don't actually make it to the end of the notes and so the what you intended to finish this week becomes the beginning of next week's yeah sometimes they're really well-crafted sermons with a clear introduction and a great conclusion that becomes a series because I can't get past point 1 and so you know and nothing really gets completed but that's the wonderful thing about preaching in the same place all the time you know my sermons are like link sausage you can whack them up anywhere and get the whole thing yeah you say that a lot and it sounds like you're denigrating your style but really that's one of the keys to the success of grace to you that each point you make is a is a succinct that has its own conclusion so we can we never broadcast a complete sermon on grace to you we typically do half a sermon and then complete it tomorrow but people who listen to the radio don't have that sense that this is an unfinished sermon well but here's the point this is not about oratory this isn't about some masterful creation this is about you understanding the Word of God and I can only go as far as I can go and say to myself if I've made this section clear then I've discharged my responsibility regardless of whether I had a WOW factor at the end if they if they've engaged the Word of God and they grasp the truth that's all I'm ever after and then the next time we'll go to the next one and if what started out as a sermon ends up as it often does in for messages like when I did John 3 yeah it was that yesterday John 3 1 to 10 was for messages here and I didn't intend it to be for but it became 4 and that's part of knowing more and studying more than you've got in your notes all of a sudden you get in it and you just get flooded with with these ideas and these truths and cross-references and all that Tom what's the process you go through well for me it really begins with a block analysis I want to see the flow of the author's thought and so either either Greek or Hebrew I want to see how they laid out the thought because obviously not only the the basic theme or concept but even the structure is inspired by the Spirit so that helps me capture keeps me from atomizing the text which I think sometimes we hear it expository preaching and so that's where it begins and then from there a very similar process I do enjoy writing with a pen writing out on a number of sheets of an eight-and-a-half by eleven legal pad you know four for each point or each passage or in some cases a word all that I'm learning about that word from my study of both the parallel passages from the lexicons whatever it might be again those are process notes you take into the pulp no not at all would you with those windows those open what's that do you file those then and keep now I don't though those ultimately become the backbone of what my preaching notes will be so I take and in Alan Steve you may want to close your ears here but I take that that notes that the notes that I've made in handwriting I then dictate them into my computer because I can talk a lot faster than I can then I can write a type and so using a dictation program I dictate in those notes that I've written out saves me a lot of time and then I can take it from there and so you're only you know what I do with my rough notes I give him to Phil who sells them on ebay that's right it's I don't sell on eBay but it's true he used to throw them away and I said what are you doing he said these are notes I'm not gonna use anymore I said give them to me so I've got a file cabinet so you haven't started selling them on eBay for me my grandchildren will do that that's his retirement place his retirement plan that's right now I'm a firm believer in the necessity of going to the original languages however I'm a firm believer and not beginning there I think one of the tasks of preaching and this is our confidence in really really fine English translations this is what our people will be using the first thing I want to do situate myself in the text they're going to read and they're going to hear and do my original thinking from that and then and that's more devotional actually and then I move into the more intentionally exegetical hermeneutical work and and there I do something differently now than I would have 20 years ago now I have this vast assortment of materials do I do the language work just by myself just you just get that done and and then I turn to the commentaries much like what dr. MacArthur said as John does I mean I've got a massive array of commentaries but what I do now is a bit different because I used to just do my work in the commentaries and I mean in the commentaries I would write on the commentaries and in the margins you mean just all over the place Wow with the maps and arrows and ya know what I mean is I mean I'm in a conversation with the commentator I'm not just receiving what he's given me I do then and the other but now I actually have for a message I will have those sections of the relevant commentaries photocopied and bound together and I know right on that I know do my work on that and the commentaries are have two functions one is to make sure you're not being an idiot you know because here's John said this you know that faithful men have looked at this before and you know if if they see something as a consensus you're not saying you better go back to the text or if you're seeing something that the consensus of the commentaries is not saying then you really better be justified in terms of what you believe you see in the text but then I I moved to the imagining part which is where new the preachers this is where as Calvin said that the the amazing thing that God would use a human being to preach his word he could have the word preached by some other means but he chooses to do this because he actually wants a human instrument to be the agent of doing this and that means to have to form arguments and form words so this is a this is a god-ordained calling and that's where I want to sit back and make sure that I'm doing the exegetical work that I'm getting the the passage that I'm doing the biblical theology work to put it in the context of the canonical shape of Scripture that I want to know where this flows how it fits where this is going what it is fulfilling what it is affirming what it is correcting where it is where it is heading what is going on and if it's if it's first Corinthians what in the world is going on in this congregation and and how does this fit within the larger theological purpose of the Apostle Paul in the larger context of the New Testament flow with biblical history and then I move to actually outlining it and and after that I actually used my entire library everything I know and can remember and think about at the time to think about what will be the very best way of making this point and I don't call that illustration I'm not opposed to it but it really is what I would call the amplification that's where I'm looking for the specific points the specific illustrations from church history most importantly the crucial biblical cross references which are going to make this point and amplify it so that the congregation will understand it and then I aim towards a conclusion you often don't get there especially if you're doing verse by verse teaching in it and my Sunday morning men I'm never actually sure where it's going to end but I know next time it's gonna begin wherever it ended this time right and and yet there is a conclusion to every passage that you preach and so as John said sometimes you just end but you're actually ending the way I think scripture would naturally be read and breached you make the point and you say we'll be back next time the the actual flow the the pen and paper work I'm working on that to the very end that's why I hear people say you know I I believe in finishing my message on Wednesday well I don't think the only spirits finished with you you may be preaching that text you're gonna live in it if this is your passion you're going to be living in it two minutes before you get up to preach you're going to be thinking about exactly how you're going to do this and it is likely to be different because of that that was when you sat down two days ago and wrote that particular section of your notes that's a great point hey you know if you guys are listening to this you notice some nuances of difference in the way all of these men work but the thing they all have in common is this is rigorous work well if you're if you're say you're preaching on a passage from the New Testament epistles 10 verses or so how much time on average would you spend from scratch when you first begin to look at that passage to preach from it how long would it take you to well it will be many hours but it's me hard to track them because if you are preaching as I believe the scripture is naturally and rightly preached book by book chapter by chapter verse by verse then you're doing an enormous amount of work I mean countless hours of work before you preach the first sermon from that book and so you say how many hours you spend doing this well there were there was a month of July that was spent getting ready to start preaching this book right now when I look at these particular verses you know I don't have a formula Phil but I will say this any preacher who says he has enough time to master this thing and put it to bed is fooling himself right because it demands every bit of time we can possibly give it to the minute we get up to preach it that's good Steve what's your process yeah I'm preaching through books in the Bible as well so I'm beginning by trying to get a handle on how many verses I'll be looking at for this particular week I think the the older you are and the longer you have been preaching those literary units are fewer fewer verses as a young man you preached more verses and older you bring more to the process so I'm beginning to anticipate how many verses the first thing I do to start each week is to Xerox everything that I'm gonna need to study for this sermon I put a manila folder I carry it around with me wherever I am I don't want to market my books I just love my books too much and that's I market my kids but I won't mark hold that thought because I want to ask a question about that later but go ahead okay so I I see rocks everything from study Bibles to commentaries to historical background to what I can anticipate are some keyword studies I just have it all in a manila folder and I'll begin with just my preaching Bible and I go through the text and I'm just marking it up underlining circles arrows cause and effect intense verbs conjunctions and and I'm just trying to observe everything that I can and the movement development of thought sometimes I will do like Tom and write out a block diagram so I can see what's subordinate to what and just visualize this in my mind and I'm a visual learner I've got to see it to get it and after I do that I like an outline it's like a road map through a text it helps me be on target and I can begin to anticipate how I'm going to break open this text they said of Alexander McLaren he had a golden hammer he could tap the text and he would break out into the perfect parts and I think that's a part of some of the skill just even in knowing yourself that outline may not work for someone else but to break open that that text into parts and I then read everything that I have xeroxed I start with the simplest I start with study Bibles I start with the footnotes at the bottom of the page which is the easiest entry level and usually whatever is in a Study Bible footnote it's just very basic or it deals with a problem and I'm learning as I'm going into this being able to anticipate what are interpretive problems and then I read more popular commentaries and work my way to technical commentaries I read some expository sermons that other men have have preached on this and and I'm marking it all up because I'm gonna come back and harvest out of these marked notes I keepeth Authority than the Bible I use that more than any other book and as I'm pulling out of these commentaries I want to shift some of the words and sort of be more original with me and where I'm not just using all of those words and beginning to craft it into a sermon I start with Roman numeral 1 the last thing I'll do will be the introduction in conclusion I start with Roman numeral 1 and I can hear myself preaching so I'm not trying to write a a commentary that would be published as a commentary this is a sermon and so I write the room number one the transition to set it up and I and I am a pen guide to the point that I've been cutting and pasting for years in that I cut up a Xerox my preaching Bible and so when I'm in the pulpit my preaching Bible and my sermon notes is the same font it's the exact same type and I have scissors and scotch tape and I I have little pink scissors and scotch tape and I'm strip in the first half of that verse and I draw a line and and then I'm writing my commentary down the left side on what the text means what it says and what it means and then having written out the interpretation of that text usually towards the bottom of the page I'll have the exhortation the application the implication I'm wanting to apply it as I'm moving through this I don't want to wait till the end and say let me give you three things you should learn from this but I'm weaving the application all through and I know how many pages per homiletically that I would use approximately on my notes I put my cross references in I don't want to waste time going to lots of different you know taking the time to turn to all those the text yeah I put the text in I actually I have a Xerox copier next to my desk and I Xerox all those verses and then cut them out yeah yeah well I that's what I understand that I understand that you know IIIi I'm a dinosaur I I admit it I'm I'm RK but I'm so hands-on that there's a sense of ownership of everything I haven't like John said I haven't hit buttons and things are just appearing on the screen I mean I've literally looked up all these verses and I've with my own hands put them into the text and then I'm drawing circles around the keywords and I've learned from John as he would use all this cross references he'll have a follow up sentence after reading a cross reference that restates that text in a very helpful explanatory way well I have those little notes out in the side and it may not be a complete sentence but it's a restatement and synonyms and it's more emphatic and it drives it home as I'm whipping through those cross references and I try to and usually summarize each heading with some kind of X or tation I call it kind of the preacher point to drive it home to the to the listener I want to get to the you how this relates to your life and and then I moved Roman numeral two and I the whole process again but as Paul said in first Timothy 4:13 until I come give attention to the public reading of scripture to exhortation and to teaching I'm just repeating that read the text explaining the text exhort with the text read the text explain the text exhort with the text and there will be some illustrations thrown in as well and then just wrap this up the last thing I do is the introduction and then the conclusion after I build the house I put the front porch at the front to get into the house and then the back porch to get out of the house and I've got you know that whole thing for me pulled together sometimes on the front row yeah it's a driveway to get into that yeah a little curb appeal doesn't that doesn't hurt you guys exhaust me just with the process that's you know there there's an interesting common denominator it's obvious but it's very important what the the the safety the greatest safety that you have is cross-referencing because of analog is scriptura the scripture is analogous to itself with a single author you're protected from some aberrant view from wandering off by continually looking to support any interpretation with the rest of Scripture then then you're never going to depart you're always going to be framed and and then we stretch that a little further and say the reason we teach systematic theology I think one of the reasons we teach systematic theology in seminary and not just skills of in exegesis of the text is because ministry is spontaneous preaching has a dynamics spontaneous element in it and what what fences your spontaneity in is your theology hmm when you have clear boundaries in your theology you don't go over the line you go you I can say to you go and speak your heart without fear if you don't have a clear systematic theology you're not framed in you you're dangerous we don't know where you're gonna go so that's you need the skills to exegete the text but you need the sound doctrine to put the walls around so that you stay within the confines of truth you want to talk a bit about cross references I think the most important thing you taught me John about how to handle Scripture is just that to illustrate Scripture with Scripture to use the cross references to sort of highlight the true meaning of this Steve said his the book he uses the most as a thesaurus I happen to know the book you use the most besides Scripture is a treasury of Scripture knowledge which is basically just a book full of cross references yeah Treasury scripture knowledge is where I started and it was it was the most shaping book not really a book but the most shaping resource I ever had in the beginning of my ministry because I I knew the Bible was its own best explanation that there used to be a big fat volume remember this called the self explained Bible but TSK is you go to a verse you look up a verse and it'll it'll give you not like a concordance other references with the same word but other references with the same idea that that was an absolute blessing from heaven for me in the early years is it chased me all around scripture to find supporting data for the interpretation of any given passage and the reason you you should prefer biblical illustrations is because they not only have interest in clarification they have authority so you've now taken them out of the realm of non biblical illustrations which may provide clarity and interest but can't bring Authority plus you're teaching while you're illustrating you're you're exposing them to the most powerful the information which is biblical truth and plus it translates into any culture or any language right and we've we found that I we've said this before if your sermons ought to be able to get out of your zip code and out of your time in place and because you're handling the the Word of God and that's what's been gratifying you know for thirty years you've seen it a grace to you you can take the sermons and you can put them in any culture and any time they don't know where they were preached in 1975 or in 2010 yeah and and it can go across cultures because we haven't burdened the process with all kinds of limited illustrations I just came back from Vietnam and they're translating your material into Vietnamese and the guy who does the translation told me he loves to translate your stuff it's the easiest of all that he deals with because you don't use illustrations from American pop culture the latest movies and all that it's biblical and so it translates naturally into any culture any language you know it's interesting too at the beginning of my ministry I don't know why I decided to do that I decided to do it because nothing was as interesting to me as the Bible and and then I was reading in Corinthians where Paul Paul says that these things have happened unto you as unto us as examples so I thought well there it is I mean first Corinthians 10 these things have happened that they're the examples that's the whole Old Testament the illustration so I've drawn on that through through the years yeah it's interesting to say what book do you use most often other than the Bible increasing and for me it's not a thesaurus is a concordance and I think I started out as a teenager studying scripture somehow I just learned to to want to know where else has disappeared where is this and this is where the digital age has brought some real real assistance to the preacher for instance you can put words together you can put a phrase in and and find it for instance I'm working on a message right now tiny little bit of it will appear tonight where I'm going to all the scripture where the exhortation fear not is found and you can't really do that just with an old concordance you have to look fear and then you know you got to put it together you can put this together and these remarkable electronic searches now and it is because the analogy of faith analogy of Scripture is not a hermeneutical technique for us it's a doctrinal conviction strength right and and we want people to have the reflex and what the congregation to develop the reflex when they when they are linking to a text how am I going to understand this I'm not primarily going to hope the preacher is going to explain this to me although that's our task I'm not gonna believe that some professor you know in university or seminary X has to explain this scripture will explain itself and we need the congregation to have the habit and the intuition the reflex to want to go back and find out okay where in scripture does this fit what else speaks to this where else have I heard this you know I was just going to say you filled it go ahead all of this is behind the scenes you're talking to the talking to us about the construction crew what's behind the drywall you know yeah you don't see this he but it has to be there hopefully you didn't when you when you were listening to Steve last night you didn't have any kind of sense of this you you you didn't deep decompress all of that what was going on and break it up into little parts you know we have mark rice and mark rice does a lot of arranging and I asked him one day if he enjoyed music and he said not particularly because he can't hear the music he only hears the parts when great preaching you don't you don't you don't experience all of this so you you get the impact of the the seamlessness of of this done well and then presented well and it becomes the event that I'll talk about it is an event it is a it is a dynamic spiritually empowered event through a gifted man and the Word of God is alive and it's supernatural this is a supernatural event after I talked this morning I went out and was one of the guys said to me wow you really got yourself completely out of that text didn't you well that's an interesting statement that yeah yeah I'm not that isn't about me that I ought to be out of that thing totally so that that all of a sudden the text comes alive right I mean that's what it's all about so somehow getting from all this mechanical stuff to that is the dynamic of the holy spirit and the experience of the word with all of its innate supernatural power and the prepared heart of the preacher and and what you get is a living explosion of truth that comes to you from the page I think this excuse me I'm gonna say it's like a skeleton everybody needs one but nobody wants to see it yeah they just have to have the support they're behind good point and let me make a plug for computers at this point I have I have on my computer I have the Treasury of Scripture knowledge a built-in thesaurus and a built-in concordance function and they all work beautifully and I use them with equal frequency so I just wanted them just needed to say that Phil may I just say one of the things yeah about this and it comes back to the fact that when I hear preachers ask the question how many hours did you spend you know doing this I always hear that as if to say how minimal can I do this minimally can I address this and I just don't come back and say if this isn't your passion if this isn't your lifeblood you know if time in the study is a burden to you then consider your calling because this should be the stuff that excites us the most I appreciate what John just said this is back door stuff but this is this that we get to do this is that the congregation doesn't get to enjoy that we do I never wear a watch when I study I don't I don't take a watch in there I don't have I don't want a clock I don't want to watch I don't want anything you know if I could do it in a submarine I'd do it I could probably do it on a Las Vegas casino I understand they don't have clocks or windows but really if that is an issue al you're absolutely right if you're saying it you mean I got to get this thing out of here I got to crank this up you know I got to play golf in 15 minutes and you hear your your that you can't do that you what it takes it takes and there are weeks when it takes 15 hours and there are weeks when it takes 4 and it's just but that can't be the issue that can't be so you always give yourself more time than you think you need and and part of it too and you all know this you get into the dynamic of this experience and sometimes you just have to stop to take your breath that's right don't you Steve I mean you've got to get up and walk away and you just you're overwhelmed I don't make nervous energy and if you if you at all responded to the preaching you have to understand that whatever activated and energized you and what you heard so far this week did the same thing to me maybe more powerfully than did you because I was on the ground floor of the discovery process and sometimes I just have to get up and go somewhere walk somewhere turn around you know just because I'm trying to I'm trying to recover from what I've discovered right so that you need that kind of process I mean you know you you you you want the time to really be able to capture everything that's there and you can never anticipate all that that's gonna be there until you get into it you made it kind of throw away come and I want to follow up on about getting yourself out of the text I think that's one of the big problems in popular preaching today that pastors seem to do the opposite they look for ways to put themselves in the text as if that's a way of contextualizing or something like that my friend Chris Roseboro cars calls it narcissus narcissistic I see Jesus and yeah I think is a huge problem you listen to some of the young celebrity pastors and they're always the heroes of their own stories they're always the the point of the illustration talk about that John oh my dad used to say to me and I was trying to learn that preach beware of preachers who are the heroes of all their own stories you know I run the other way it's never it never can be about me trying to get myself out of the text I don't even want to find myself in the text to start with but this isn't theatrics you know you hear people say I was looking for Jesus but so-and-so was in the way I couldn't find him they couldn't get past the guy talking you know it's just that that is basically that is basically a spiritual issue one of the most helpful things you've ever said to to some of us or who are sort of coming behind you and learning from what you do is we're not the chef where our jobs not to create the meal we're just the waiter we're supposed to get it to the table without messing it up and that's such a great perspective mm-hmm well I've always said you know people say well what does this text mean to you who cares what it means to you I don't care what it means you well what does it mean if you're dead what does it mean if you never existed what does it mean the God who authored it so you know that tends to be the the attitude that keeps you out of it how you look like you're itchin to add to that well I think this is where Evan Teleca preachers often talk themselves into trouble me for instance you'll hear someone a lot of politicians a lot of homiletics professors a lot of preachers will say remember what Phillips Brooke said is he defined preaching is truth through personality well you need to know that fellas Brooks was a theological liberal and that what he meant by personality fits within a philosophical stream of his day that is not where you want to go suggesting that the the special giftedness of the human personality was the vehicle that religion as he would use the word and I would say revelation is dependent upon we don't believe the revelation isn't anyway dependent upon the human personality nor does it need to ride upon the rails of the human personality trust me the fact that God uses earthen vessels to preach means there are going to be plenty of personality generally too much personality and and we do need to understand that God does want human beings to preach this is not a robotic act and there are five of us here up on the platform every one of us would preach a different sermon on the same text but the same text better come shining through every one of those five sermons and not only that five years later or five minutes later you might preach a different sermon on that same text because you're a different person but trying to amplify the personality is leaning into the dark side of preaching we lean into the text you're not gonna have to worry about there being enough personality in there trust me you're there there's gonna be more than you need hmm very wise I have so many questions in so little time you guys are all writers and now let me start with you on this one how do you find the time to write as much as you write well I'm always frustrated that I don't write here you're not up at 3 a.m. is that true no that is not true ok that it's not true I am NOT THERE I'm up at 3 a.m. but I'm not getting up there no I I do almost all of my writing very late at night because that's when it's quiet no one calls this an amazing thing no one calls me and I can actually get things done that's one I'm alert I do believe that you need to know if you're primarily able to do your best intellectual work in the morning or at night and if you know that of yourself then lean into that understand that you have 24 hour days it's the most frustrating thing to me we can't improve on that I don't have any more time than Adam had and and time management is both an oxymoron and a lie if the reality is it's just never that and I'm making facetious fun of that but of course we have a responsibility but at the end of the day if you're going to get it done it means you can't do it while you're sleeping and if you're gonna write you can't do it while you're doing something else and so it's gonna require concentrated blocks of time you can devote to this and I would say the other thing is you at some point to get like a book-length project done you can't do it all just in even four or five-hour blocks at some point you're going to have to have a one or two week period and perhaps even more depending on the scope of the scale of the project I sit down and just say I am mono maniacally giving myself to this yeah I'm glad to hear you say that because I can't get a book-length project done without actually leaving the office going home and just camping out on it for weeks well what I've learned of myself is that I actually have to get out of my normal space just with the stuff I need just to finish this project and and get that done and so I will sometimes go to you know a different location and just just I like the idea of submarine and let's see if I can get one of those but you seem to be a little bit like like John what's extraordinary about John as always amazed me is he can shift gears quickly and it doesn't seem to bother him I traveled once through Russia with him where he would preach at pastors conferences meet guys do all this and then instantly go to his rooms start working on a book I can't do that I can't shift gears and in my mind that quickly you you seem to be able to do that well I I guess that everybody has a different set of skills that's one thing I had to develop very early the ability to do and also I mean we have more time you know I can think I wrote two essays on the flight from two segments of a flight from Louisville here on an airplane and that that's just if I'm up and in it it was an early morning flight we're existed that I'm gonna use this time I'm not gonna sit here and you know I will use the time and you can actually get things done if you if you think about how you're going to get yourself ready to do this and the night before I laid out two file folders with two materials sets of materials for two essays I said I'm gonna sit down I'm gonna get this done and can I just say on behalf of all of these guys thank you for making us feel so puny and and impotent you know I understand that Ally I got on a plane to fly back at Nashville on Monday and I had all my stuff to work on two chapters of the fourth volume on Luke commentary and sat down comfortably in my seat all my material guy sits down next to me looks over my name is Mel I'm from Sydney what's your name my name is John you have a Bible there yeah what do you do John MacArthur four hours of non-stop questions he was a Christian who needed all kinds of instruction apparently and that's one place where we usually can get work done you know unless it's hit or miss there's some kind of divine appointments right and we're thankful for those too so I lost that four hours so I thought okay on the way back I'll do it so on the way back can I sit next to you we can talk you know somebody from the event four hours so you know I mean but that's how it works you might capture that you might not so I mean you make up for it right I mean that you find the cracks to make up for it and you know what I have going for me is when it isn't really what it should be and I've worked hard on it and I give it to Phil and he fixes it well I think a lot of people think that what a writer does when he writes is that he sits down and it could happen on a desert island with a blank sheet of paper a pen or a working assessor and a laptop and by the way I write a lot of book link material just that way because that's not a sermon it's not the same thing I the original notes aren't handwriting but no I I'm very dependent upon the laptop but that's not actually the case you have to be ready to write the writing is the end of the process with editing other things to follow but I mean you have to be ready and that's why I carry materials with me so that if I end up being delayed in an airport I end up somewhere if I'm stuck somewhere I got material I can I can get writing done but you have to be ready you have to have the stuff with you you have to know it to premeditate how you're going to take it back right yeah yeah Steve you're also a very prolific author and and in a different way I mean I'll writes a lot about things that are going on I don't know how you keep up with everything that you write about out but you seems like you know about the latest thing that happened everywhere Steve is almost at the opposite end of the spectrum writing about church history biographies and all of that and you do one after another how do you how do you do all the study that's necessary to write multiple biographies like that and is the majority of your time spent in the study or the writing or do they blend together well they blend together obviously it's different many books come out of your preaching like John's commentaries which just sar such a phenomenal blessing to all of us the church history is different in that it doesn't flow out of a message it's just for me excuse me original research and so it begins with stockpiling a treasure-house of books and articles and chapters and everything that I would need to read in order to write a book on Luther or a book on Spurgeon or whatever and again I go through and I read the whole thing and I have pens and I just mark up everything that I read and that I know I'm gonna be going back to that I'm gonna need to pull this out and I sit down with a fountain pen a blank piece of paper even for the church history books and just write it all out by hand well and I have the quotes in the footnotes and as I Xerox I've got the title page and all that stuff so that it's impossible virtually to go back at the end and footnote everything pillars of grace I think I have something like 3,500 footnotes in there you just have to do that as you go and then the writing of it there's both substance and style and the substance part in some way is a little bit easier once you find it you've you have it it's the writing with the style to be engaging to the listener so it's not encyclopedic or so that it doesn't read like a phone book you know where it's just information data dump you you've got to write it in a way that pulls the reader in or at least the sentences are pithy enough and have enough energy in them that you keep going through you pull them through the material but I will edit numerous times and so by the end of the process probably there's more on the style than the substance the substance on the front end the style is on the back end you know just a footnote and we get we need to stop but you all need to read Steve's book on Martin Luther and you need to read Al's book on leadership just really you have to read those books I don't know if we're giving them away or if you're buying them but whatever you need to do to get a hold of those the book on Luther really exceptional helpful book on leadership the best I've ever read never at a lot of things so make sure you get those amen

Channel: Reformed Christian

Views: 88,293

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Keywords: Shepherd's Conference 2013, Question & Answer

Id: uuBG2HbfXME

Length: 62min 37sec (3757 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 18 2013