Shannon Q: The Sham of Religion "Deliverance" Counseling

I often have the opportunity to cross paths with people who are activists in out there who are part of the conversations about religion the influence of religion and the liberation that comes when you sort of cast off religion and as of late over the last I don't know Shannan has been a year or when did you start your channel may actually okay recently there's been sort of this swell of YouTube activists and new podcaster Shannon cubing among them glad to have you thanks for being my guest thank you for inviting me we started to be here I want to talk about how had you busted into this first of all and then we're gonna segue into kind of a more targeted specific conversation about the damage done specifically I think you're doing some research and you've done a lot of homework on the damage done by Christian counseling religious counseling specific flavors of counseling and how they just essentially screw people up but I want to start with a little bio so that people know you and how to find you okay go ahead hit me I am Shannon Q and I have a YouTube channel called Shannon Q where I do atheist advocacy and my background is in psychology I have an education in psychology and I studied perceptual cognition and communication theory so I talk a lot about the intersections of psychology and faith and I also do my best to have complex and difficult conversations so that I can model better conversations for people in this fear because there's a lot of contentious issues that we have to discuss and sometimes those conversations don't don't don't go well so I'm looking to to model and encourage better conversations walk after that I mean what's a you know what's an example of a bad conversational style the counterproductive way of approaching people well a lot of people when they go into conversations particularly in in this I guess YouTube Twitter sphere that we have it's almost a competition of of ideas they that they seem to they want to have a battle of ideas so my idea is better than your idea and I'm going to just you know forcefully prove that that's the case and that doesn't leave people open to discovering new perspectives or open to be willing to change their mind and as somebody who's an audience member when I was an audience member more so than a youtuber which I which I am now I was watching these these dialogues where it was essentially people two people that wanted to embolden their own side more so than they wanted to discuss and uncover the truth about the topic that they were discussing and those just end in in arguments that you just do you walk away high-fiving your own camp and and nobody came to anything in real fast forgive the interruption but don't I mean I am all about ideas in a battle of ideas let's defeat the bad ideas let's allow the good ideas to win Ingersoll satis quote that I say probably every other show much to the chagrin of my audience the more false and destroy the more room we make for the true I mean ideas are fair game so is it that people are discussing ideas that's the problem or is it that it usually gets personal I mean cuz that's what I see it's not just uh you know I think your reasoning may be flawed here let me present my argument instead of that it's you're a dumbass if you were smart you would agree with me that's usually what I see out there so yeah and not only that but they they're so some people can be so dogmatic about their their idea ideas are fair game but how you go about scrutinizing your own ideas is important so if you're not willing to at least listen to what the other person has to say and consider it and scrutinize it rationally and reasonably as opposed to just waiting for your turn to talk alright and and and insulting the other person I am they disagree with you it's almost like a schoolyard scrap you know you throw out some zinger I mean I've been guilty and it's not about seeing the best ideal win it's about seeing me win and right yeah I look bigger I look better if you look worse kind of a thing it's it's pretty pathetic can you think I mean I don't mean to put you on the spot can you think of a specific instance in your own life when somebody presented a better argument and you changed your mind I mean has it happened in your own life yeah let's see oh gosh Atena I've changed my mind I used to be religious so I clearly changed my mind about that I just lay down now the gym we talking about I was in Anglican a lot of tradition a lot of yes you know gesturing for its own self it probably not deep theology no goodness no no no no no well that there potentially are people but that when I was in the faith it was me going deeper into the theology that ultimately took me out a bit you know go figure on his research yeah I know what that's like how long ago did that happen for you that journey probably started when I was in my mid-20s and finished about two years two to three years ago and so you decided you had to be part of the conversation I mean where's the YouTube channel where's the Heath and our co-hosting where does all this stirring of the pot come from for you okay so what I was essentially kind of sitting in dark rooms alone watching the Twittersphere I'm watching the the conversations that have been starting to take place over the past couple of years on YouTube because I felt that that was the only opportunity I had to find compatriots you know the people to who understood how I thought and I could I guess sort of allowed them to be a proxy for me in these conversations that I wanted to be a part of because I had no one in in my sphere to to have these dialogues with in in a comfortable and productive fashion but I I saw some conversations that I felt you know I was interest and hearing the outcome of debates and I was interested in the topics that people were debating but I felt a lot of people were you know as we spoke about earlier we're more interested in screaming at each other improving that they're right then actually addressing with the issues that they were there to discuss so I decided to you know start a Twitter account and get into some of these conversations just to see just to see if it was even possible or reasonable to think that but they could be manifested differently in the process of doing that I encountered a lot of other atheists and realized that there was other people who who thought like me and who also felt as though you know they were they were alone and they were scared to tell people about that they were atheists they were they were finding it difficult to to have conversations with friends and family and then they were looking for more information once they found out that I have background in psychology about how to better conduct those conversations in their real lives and they were also struggling with a lot of misinformation that was thrown at them about the psychological aspects of deconversion you know I did a video called the myth of the unhappy atheist you know people in this fear throw a lot of information at you about um what it means to be an atheist a lot of the time the people that are throwing that information that you were actually religious people who are attempting to combat you by making it seem as though you know your your very existence as an atheist is an issue so I started the YouTube channel with dual purposes one to have better conversations and two to put out more accurate peer-reviewed summarized information about how psychology intersects with atheism and dispel some of these myths that are that are harmful to people and also start addressing some of some of the harmful things that happen within religion that just aren't being covered they're just what there's a lot of people who are sort of I guess armchair psychologists in the in this realm but wasn't seeing a lot of people really you know everybody does the evolution everybody does does the science everybody you know a lot of people do the theology but I felt that there was a niche in this sphere for somebody like me where I could help if there's one difference in what I see as far as atheist activism today as opposed to when I began when I began it was mostly a lot of what I saw anyway was these sort of ham-handed religious memes religion is a mental illness was a mean that would fly which is just a horrible idea or you know they'll find a variation on the religious are stupid I even wrote in my autobiography I had a chapter I think called Santa Claus for adults we were talking about Jesus which you know I still hold to but these were not effective and in many ways we had been reducing religious people to kind of the other back to tribalism which we've been talking a lot about tribes recently and I'm seeing more at least on YouTube with people like you I'm seeing more empathy more compassion more of a you are a fellow human being let's start there is that a focused and targeted strategy for you well I think yes I would say so I altom utley want to want to help I'm not doing I'm not my motivations for doing this aren't I want to be seen my motivations for doing this are I can I can see instances where people are being provided misinformation or there's harm being caused and I'd like to you know consolidate concisely a little information package that somebody can utilize to to assist themselves we all have to ask ourselves what our goals are when we're entering into this like when we're going into these conversations when we're making these videos when we're going on Twitter when we're going on social media we have to ask ourselves when we're engaging with people what's my goal here is my goal to look smarter then somebody or is my goal to better understand somebody's so that I can perhaps help and if your goal is to perhaps help telling an entire group of people that they're stupid especially when it's not true it's just it's just contributing to further polarization I mean it may get you views if that's what you want then more power to you but you're not helping at all you're not you're not helping are you well aware of this phenomenon where people will try to define the movement by the most controversial person is waving the atheist banner on YouTube and so they begin talking about YouTube atheism but they're really only be talking about one or two people who has a ton of subscribers right but I mean they're just very big fish in a bathtub like in a not even a small pond they're they're not representative of activism across the spectrum and yet we find these sort of ham-handed accusations that YouTube atheism is this have you run across any of that what are your thoughts I think it's because yes I have run across that I think it's an sort of a natural phenomenon for people to do that though because whichever is the most popular and work is in the forefront the most is what is immediately going to come to somebody's mind when they think about the concept of what they have a schematic in their mind about what it means to be a YouTube atheist and the information they're gonna draw from is what's most readily available to them and what's most readily available to them or theirs counts with millions of subscribers that a lot of their subscribers are there because they like watching them be jerks you know that gets them clicks that gets them views but because because that's the phenomenon that happens there there what is brought to the forefront people don't realize the breadth and depth of the activism that's that's taking place and it we're starting to gain some momentum though so our hope is that there'll be you know there'll be a paradigm shift and that when people think of YouTube activists now they'll think about people like me and they'll think about people like Paula gia and they'll think about people like genetically modified skeptic and and cosmic skeptic and holy kool-aid and those will be the new schematics that they have in their head better ones one ones where they they know that these people are capable of having dialogues and conversations and bring forth good and value valuable information so it's an interview I look forward to having that show first quarter 2019 we're gonna have a whole bunch of these YouTube activists on the show let's talk about the focus of some of your recent stuff that's really the first reason we started talking about having this show together the damage done by these sort of religious efforts can you frame it for the audience in a concise way and sort of talk about why it's important to you and why you went down this path yeah absolutely I'll try to be as succinct as possible I mean II there's the internet but I mean go ahead possible with this lot to it so if you're interested in more information there's a video series on my channel called how to be a Christian counselor so I was on a podcast on somebody else's channel and we were talking about religious approaches to depression and they introduced me to the concept of Christian counseling now I didn't realize that there was a specific designation called Christian counseling so I I found that intriguing but as somebody who studied psychology so I decided to look into it to see exactly you know what is a Christian counselor what differentiates them from secular counselors know I discovered that there were many many flavors of of Christian counseling now they they vary widely but there's a specific subset that I focused in on as a start that our deliverance ministry counselors who used the Arno profile system who belonged to the National Christian counselors Association now there's a lot to it but essentially they have an entire it's almost as though it's a multi-level marketing platform with a bait-and-switch built-in because they have their own accrediting institution that accredits their school they have a school that they sell through the counseling service is where you can get a PhD and that school is affiliated with the NCCA which provides you your counseling license so here's here's how it works you go to the school you can go there straight from be having a GED and you can go right from a baseline counseling certificate all the way up to a PhD in Christian counseling using the Arno profile system which is just a complete mess of foolishness it's a survey essentially that you fill out that has about I think it's something around like 20-some questions you have to fill it out in eight to ten minutes as quickly as you can and that gives you a personality profile on temperaments that these counselors use to give you therapy so once you get this education you can get all the way up to a PhD so you can have a PhD on your wall you then apply to be licensed through the NCCA they give you a playbook what this PlayBook essentially tells you is that you cannot is illegal in every state in the United States and in Canada to open a counseling practice without being licensed through the state unless you're affiliated with a church so in order to be affiliated with a church you have to be ordained in something you could be a what my favorite one was a Minister of administration you could be a minister of administration that affiliates you with the church and then once you do that if the church is willing to sponsor you you open a standalone counseling practice where you recruit people to to provide them fake therapy that essentially is equivalent to almost like an exorcism with a with a PhD on your wall and a license next to it that are that are both essentially worthless well let me stop you right here for just a second if I may interrupt is this just a degree for fees it's not an actual ph.d program it's not a course how do you get the PhD you have to take courses you do have to take courses they have they have an entire course program set up they have a school that's accredited um I mean it's a like a was it but school the canticle under who was it who got there you know they tracked an anniversary and it was like that mobile home in the middle of a you know field somewhere where you just essentially were able to go through a short program and walk out with a doctorate so yeah that's essentially that's essentially it so they have the master's programs as well it's all online all it's all over the internet and you you can get your I think that you BA you can get an 18 months in a signature religious or many of the courses I'm guessing many of the courses you take are entirely religious focused entirely religious focused and what here's why it's dangerous it's not simply dangerous because it's religious focus they actively advocating ensta seeking psychological help actively advocate against it I brought something up actually I'd like to read this so this is this is from the above and beyond Christian counseling website the word psychology comes from the Greek word psyche psyche was the Greek goddess of the soul that alone should be enough to raise some serious red flags for Christians why should we be inclined to find any truth in the realm of Greek mythology we rarely get beyond a single section session with folks when they understand clearly our perspective on psychology or if they if they think that they're if they think that they're gonna be there for them to get psychological help like therapy because there tactics are completely different we believe it's psychotropic medications for depression and anxiety and the like represented temporary band-aid fixes at best and we share that without prejudice or judgment I received messages from people that went to these Christian counselors that thinking they have the artifice of being legitimate counselors every outward appearance they've PhD on their wall they have a license but that license is in a state license people don't know that people don't know that they think they're going to an educated accredited counselor who who's educated in how to deal with their mental health I got a message from somebody who went and they were told to throw away their medication their anti-psychotic medication as an act of faith as an act of faith because it was bringing them further away from God from God and that's why they were upset and depressed they ended up being committed because you can't they know nothing about psychology they know nothing about neuro chemistry you cannot just tell somebody to cease taking a medication and throw it in the garbage and not monitor them you don't they don't know what that medication is for they don't know how long they've been on it that they're not monitoring their cessation program to make sure that they're not having withdrawal symptoms but that they do this with impunity and they operate within the law like what they're doing it's completely aboveboard that's what's really really terrifying it's completely aboveboard if you can't find a church to sponsor your Christian counseling ministry you can do what above and beyond Christian counseling services did they just started their own ministry this started their own ministry and they oversee themselves so they have a ministry section ministry section and a Christian counseling section the ministry section is the body that which they are owned is the body that's governing the Christian counseling section and it's completely aboveboard so if you and I were looking for some sort of an enterprise that we knew wouldn't be legit in scenario a we just go start religious 501c3 and all of a sudden we now get to enjoy some pretty alarming religious privilege right it it all comes down to the ambiguities I think in the word council so there's people will be counseled in a religion theologically sure but these people are actively recruiting people with mental health issues under the guise of providing them therapeutic assistance they tell them that they're possessed by demons they tell people that they are possessed by demons they tell homosexual people that they need to Deacon ver the engage in in D conversion therapy they tell people to throw away their medications their antipsychotic medications for them it's the same problem right it's I mean if you take an anti-psychotic if you take medication for depression to help balance you if you are engaging in the and a natural prevention or cure you're just swatting at the symptoms the root problem is there's a devil out there who comes to steal kill and destroy and we have to deal with the spiritual battle first it says yeah they use the term spiritual warfare quite a lot quite a lot you're they're engaging in spiritual warfare because there's demons fighting for your soul fighting for your soul they had a potential a little story about what I'm doing the current video that I'm doing I'm doing my next video on their practices with children and they share this stuff with impunity right so that they're they're prideful about about the work that they do and they're above board so they there's no reason that they would need to hide their practices but they're talking about on adoption and how there's special demon spirits that that influence adopted children on their most recent podcast are one of their most recent podcasts because this is above and beyond Christian counseling ministry which is a very specific segment of Christian counseling and I'd also I'd like to say that there's great Christians who are counselors who are fantastic people of all faiths I'm speaking about this very specific sect so anyway they had a woman come in with a child who had been adopted from Africa from I can't remember which country in Africa but was adopted from Africa they told this five year old child that she had to throw away the toy the what the doll that she had from from her from her home where she was born and that she was possessed with special demons of witchcraft because the town that she was from was rife with with witchcraft because they were primitive I'm gonna cry because they were primitive and that she had to have those demons cast out of her and she to throw away that's all it's child abuse right yeah I mean I don't throw the word around flippantly it's it's a form of abuse you are damaging this child's perception of the world of the child's perception of herself and that's baggage that she might drag through her life on the order of years decades perhaps until she dies it is it's really good functionable just cuz she was being a five-year-old you know I have a seven-year-old the five-year-olds can be temperamental you tell a five-year-old a specifically one who's adopted to write that like that's already you're adopted you're coming from a different country at this point you're learning a new language you're you have to learn to trust in your new parents and they take you to that tells you that you come from an awful place where it's primitive and there's witchcraft demons and that you're bad like yeah this is why we find them right this is why we do what we do and this is also why I reject this notion of can't we all just coexist which is a wonderful kumbaya kind of a sentiment on the surface but it's completely a fantasy because religion is not here to coexist religion is by nature on offense so while you and I sit back and say oh let everybody be who they want to be and let them all do what they want to do this buys into the canard that's what they do is innocuous and doesn't ripple out into others into spouses children young children families friends communities jobs bosses all of those things come into play these things are not an island unto themselves who's gonna be the advocate for the five-year-old if not people like you and me right Shannon yeah exactly like I didn't know that it existed I dealt like I just didn't know it existed and it's prevalent there's hundreds and hundreds of offices for Christian counseling and in every state and they're always working under a different set of rules right a different set of rules it's completely arbitrary so that like one school uses the Arno profile system like and the guy the Crypt that created the Arno profile system this is a fun story he is an honorary degree from another weird faith a Christian institution that is accredited through a church so we can call it salsa school so he's a fake PhD from there he developed the Arno profile system created the curriculum created the school and then founded the National Christian counseling Association which is the body that provides licenses to people that graduate from that school and got that and got the school accredited by a different church so a church is accrediting a fake school which is being provided like fake license I mean the license are essentially just window dressing they're not even necessary they're just not necessary you can call yourself a Christian counselor with or without the license it's just the artifice of legitimacy so that they can convince people that this has some sort of efficacy and is legitimate it doesn't even need to exist it's just so they can mirror other counseling legitimate secular licensed counselors and appear to have the same measure of legitimacy some atheist advocate Shannon q let's get back to gay conversion therapy I I remember sitting in a church service this was before my D conversion and they produced and showed to this I mean it's a pretty big Church here in Tulsa and they showed this profile of a guy who had been homosexual and he had been quote unquote had been homosexual and then they brought him in in an attitude of love and goodness and prayer and and they put him through a gay conversion therapy and then when he had gone through whatever the program was I don't know how long it was I don't know what happened behind closed doors to make him feel that he was no longer gay but then they trotted him out in front of the church in his story out in front of the church to essentially talk about how God fixed his gay his gayness you know and I even at that time I was struggling with the idea that for the rest unless this guy comes to an epiphany for the rest of his life he is going to struggle with who he is he's going to have to lie to himself about what his desires are and what would you sort of foster happiness in his own mind and heart and he's gonna be carrying this sort of sin narrative with him dragging that into every room everywhere he goes for the rest of his life and while everybody in the audience and the congregation was like a man a man praise Jesus God is good God still works miracles today even then is sort of an escaping Christian I thought to myself this they have essentially shamed him into denying himself you have any thoughts on gay conversion therapy I think that it can lead to suicidal ideologies because if you're telling somebody thoughts their natural state of existence you know they're the resting state of existence the way that they are innately is inherently evil and wrong inherently evil and Rob you you are doing severe damage to that person you're doing some fierce fear damage to that person because you cannot change your innate tendencies you just can't you can't be gay go through a bunch of D conversion or conversion therapy I use that term lightly sessions where you're it's they use almost like I'm you know you know what operant conditioning is so they give people negative reinforcement for for those thoughts and positive reinforcement for thoughts that's I guess are inherently hatteras a Clockwork Orange furgus yeah yes exactly so that's that is that's not good for a person you can't you it may works up to a certain degree for behaviors and there's some there's some legitimacy to say that you can influence behaviors through using utilizing that type of methodology but behaviors are very very different than natural states of being like your your personality doesn't change if your behaviors change just your behaviors just how you enact activity in the world changes so they're convincing them to suppress the suppress the urge to instantiate poor behaviors or to be honest outwardly about how they feel that's not good you have to spend your entire life lying to other people for fear that if you don't lie to other people about who you are you won't be accepted or God will punish you internally knowing that you still are that way because that can't be changed internally knowing that you are that way imagine what that must be like well ever you know I know or are you lying to yourself Shannon I mean are you saying I'm no longer that are you continuing to reiterate in your own mind trying to reinforce an untrue idea that's an interesting question because can you really lie to yourself about things that you think like your tendencies or innate tendencies so I'm attracted to men now can I convince myself that I'm attracted to women I don't know if I can't I really don't think it's possible I mean I haven't tried but what I could do is I could tell everybody that I'm attracted to women act as though I'm attracted to women but internally I would still know that I'm attracted to men I mean you the you hope that those things are elicited from you you don't manifest through an active cognition who you are attracted to I remember when I was in the church and even in conversations with religious people they would talk about somebody like and he wouldn't mind me mentioning my best friend Cory who I've used in a speech he announced me in the 90s he was gay and I remember as a religious person I was just horrified you know and we would say things like bull I'm sorry you chose to be gay and whenever I was in conversations recently with someone you know it's usually some indignant evangelical who's like you know the gay lifestyle and this is language I had to learn not to use because I realized he was it was wrong I was corrected rather that it's a lifestyle a chosen lifestyle they chose to be get so sad that you chose to be gay and I looked them in the eye and this was a woman and I said when did you choose to be attracted to men like when did you decide that decision and she just looked at me like I was like this the first time she'd been presented with the idea that she is instinctively attracted to men she and she well I mean you know I just am and I'm like thank you I think you are demonstrating my point right you don't choose attraction do you know you can't I you really can't I don't think that there's any way that you can I mean I'm trying to think it through is there any possibility that you can choose now I look forward to the youtube comment sections on this one whenever it goes out because I'm sure that productive any time we talk about you know anything regarding gender or sex if people just lose their minds do you read YouTube comment sections on these types of conversations and what do you thought oh well I think I have a pretty good comment section I'm pretty lucky thus far but the you know there's some the coffee and pastries are my favorite do you have any of those that with the dissertation I'll copy and paste on every single video that's exactly the same a lot of religious people lately it's been just a pasting of various scriptures in a kind of parroting of this very basic Ray Comfort like religious language religious message you know one day every knee will bow and know that one day when you're dead it's those two I've been seeing a lot of those types of things recently and then occasionally I'll just get some bad ship conspiracy stuff just bizarre stuff it's very late night art bell radio you know coast to coast radio type stuff these conspiracies about governments and do you find that people drag their pet soap boxes into completely unrelated conversations I see that off on social media so we're talking about thing X you and I are talking about Christian counseling and somebody walks into the room and they're like well capitalism and they'll just immediately just lose do you see that donation oh my gosh absolutely yeah what lately I've been getting um weird Flat Earth Illuminati comments which is fascinating to me so I did a conversation with John Perry from stated clearly who's great guy about me to movement and and what's going on Neil deGrasse Tyson he and I just had kind of really really good dialogue about you know some of our perspectives have boat you're hitting on women in the workplace but anyway there's somebody posted like in in rapid succession a bunch of stuff about the earth being flat and that I was a shill and that I was hiding it I don't even I don't even think I said the word earth it's like they are a volcano under pressure on one issue this volcano is their one issue and wherever they go they just have to like erupt that thing into it clumsily into whatever other conversation you're having it's bizarre I love your mug by the way loved that mug I haven't watched doctor I'll get back to the important topics here but I'm gonna watch Doctor Who since the go oh I have since the old Tom Baker gays I [Music] [Laughter] you're like if I was to jump back into doctor who do I have to go back to the 1980s or do you 2005 you start with that Coulson you can stay yeah the the new series the new series stands alone I mean yeah I would start with Eccleston if you yeah you should used to start with Eccleston if you're gonna go ahead thoughts on the new doctor yeah no yeah you think he's well the old thoughts on Jodie Whittaker yeah yeah she's great she's really good I'm really enjoying her actually um I was nervous because there was so much work up around it because people were like oh you're just making the doctor a woman because you're caving to political pressure what what feminists you're you know all those feminists but no so I was worried that because she was under that cloud people weren't gonna give her an opportunity and I think she's doing great it's like there's so many aspects of other doctors that I can see her you can tell she did her homework going in on the doctors based personality like as long as it's true to the character right I mean as long as you're you're doing something interesting that doesn't betray the character itself then you know by all means you know try something new try a second chapter experiment I'll never problem at all with that so you'd start me in 2005 though with dr. yeah I would start your cycle soon thousand five okay any final thoughts on how people who might have been damaged by some of the stuff we've been talking about the the Christian counselors gay conversion therapy the you know the idea that you're infected with sin and demons and that they're going after young children and the vulnerable at the weakest parts of their lives do you point people to other resources I mean we're talking about a culture of religious culture that is hugely distrustful of science and scientists they hate psychologists so for those have been damaged by that where do you point them where they are able to go and get some actual you know actual help so in the in the description of every single one of my videos at the bottom there are resources so I have the secular therapy project recovering from religion and the clergy project in every single video because it's very specified it's very specified the damage that that's that's done by in in this specific circumstance like if you if you went into a Christian counselor it's not just you're now not just dealing with whatever your mental health issue was going in now you're dealing with the damage that that was caused by religion masquerading as real mental health so it's multi-tiered now so the secular therapy project is great because they'll put you in contact with the with a secular therapist who can specialize in these types of damage and recovering from religions fantastic as well I think they can help find you some wire in your area and the clergy project is wonderful the clergy project is specifically for people that were in the clergy that Ardi converting and they they have their own special set of circumstances because imagine you have no training and anything else other than being a minute administer your livelihood and life is entirely tied up in the church in an irreconcilable way and you just discover that you don't believe so the clergy projects always there in my descriptions as well and I would encourage you just please seek out help not from a Christian counselor but seek out real mental health the pro go and find somebody who's licensed do your homework and be an advocate for yourself make sure you're seeing somebody who's legitimate you don't go and see somebody who has an education look where they went to school look what types of things they teach at that school and but you have to be an advocate for yourself it's really unfortunate because there's people who are out there that are trying to take advantage of you they're trying to trick you in your weakest moments so that they can take your money because they don't care about you so please go click the links in my video description or I can provide them to Seth if you want to use them sure decision in the description box of this show advocate for yourself I like that I like the way that sounds it's amazing how often people will look outward and help solve the problems of others and they neglect the self they neglect their own heart and mind their own issues problems and you know sometimes you have to be an advocate for yourself that's good stuff shannon q I will include the link to your YouTube channel in the description box of this broadcast along with the other helpful resources that you just provided for your work for the help that you're giving to other people and for I think all the wonderful things that you're gonna happen I think for you and this sort of new chapter of youtubers in the new year thank you very it's been a real joy thank you thank you sad you

Channel: TheThinkingAtheist

Views: 26,077

Rating: 4.9128246 out of 5

Keywords: atheist, atheism, The Thinking Atheist, Seth Andrews, Shannon Q., christian counseling, religious deliverance, deliverance ministries, Above & Beyond Christian Counseling

Id: bCXJJlOn2Qc

Length: 44min 51sec (2691 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 02 2019