Season 03 : Episode 02 : Nicole Nachtman

when nicole nachman was late to file her  application for student housing at florida   state university she believed that she would  have no place to live and decided to go down   a path that would provide her with housing  for the rest of her life this is monsters miriam deans was married to her first husband  joseph carey senior in the early 80s and she   had two sons with him joseph jr and kevin carey  they lived together in houston texas for about 12   years before they separated after the separation  miriam met ronald knockman in january of 1993. it   turns out they played volleyball together miriam  lost her job at the beginning of april and moved   in with ronald at this time joey and kevin were  living with their grandmother in tampa florida   in the middle of april miriam found out that  she was pregnant so the couple found a rental   house to move to and on august 1 1993 joey  and kevin came to live with them according   to ronald he wasn't aware that miriam was still  married and going through a divorce until after   they moved in together the living arrangements  were short-lived as he moved out on september   18th because he claimed that miriam was abusing  him when nicole nachtman was born on february 11   1994 the living arrangement changed again ronald  describes the situation in court she called me on   february january 31st she called me at my  home and invited me back to the birth okay   so you were present when nicole was born yes  ma'am and that was february of 1994 correct   that was february 11 1994 and that was in  texas yes ma'am and i moved back to the house you moved back in where nicole was living for what  purpose i uh nicole and i slept in the sun room   and i took care of her every day so even after you  and miriam deans broke up you all set up some type   of um caretaking schedule where you were taking  care of nicole every day as a baby i took care of   the coal every day by myself as a baby in the sun  room and until what age did you care for nicole   i i moved out of that house into  my my two bedroom apartment i had   a nursery in a two-bedroom apartment and  she lived with me so we moved with me until   january 7th in 1995. i took her almost every  day by myself so she was almost a little less   than a year old for the first year of her life  is when you cared for her every day yes ma'am   it seems that ronald had full custody  of nicole for the first year or so   but then miriam filed for custody and the pair  began a lengthy legal battle over their daughter   it was a battle that ronald would ultimately lose  and after the age of four and a half years old he   would have no contact with nicole the prosecution  pointed out that ronald had previously stated that   he didn't have any conflict with miriam as well  as the fact that he had another daughter that he   hadn't seen since she was six years old a fact  that he didn't seem thrilled to be brought up   you've actually previously said that there was  no conflict between you and miriam deans correct   we had no conflict man there was no war between  you and miriam deans right in our family system   mom miriam davron and our daughter nicole we  had no conflict but i'm asking between you   and miriam you've previously said that there  was no conflict between you and her correct   in our family system we had no conflict man and  mr nachman it's accurate that you have another   child that you haven't had any contact  with since she was six years old correct is that correct i have a sole custody of one child another child   but you've had no contact with her  since she was six years old correct it's a yes or no question uh that would be true   eventually miriam left texas and stayed with  family in tampa for a short while but then   decided to move to virginia joey who would  have been around 17 by this time didn't   want to go so he ran away and lived with his  grandmother until he graduated high school   and then joined the united states air force  did there come a time when you stopped living   with your mother and stayed instead with your  grandmother yes how old was nicole at that time   see i went to uh high school in tampa um at around  96 97 so my sister was probably three or four okay so three or four years old um you chose while  you were in high school to live stay in town but   what was the reason behind that so after without  too much background i guess but after the mess   that i call houston when we were in the living  condition there with my dad and everything   uh we finally were able to leave that place and  my sister's biological father the legal mess   that we were in the problems we had there when  we finally got back to where all my family was   and i felt a lot better being back here um my  mom wanted to immediately go back to virginia   where she owned the house and to me that was  just a huge mistake and it was just kind of   getting away from our foundation of family and  being together and helping each other out so   i just immediately thought it was going to be a  mess again so i wanted to stay where i was happy   okay so you were happy here in tampa and  you were happy in high school yes and you   didn't want to leave yeah so you chose and your  grandmother was okay with you living with her yes   at some point miriam met and married robert  deans and the couple with nicole and kevin   settled in tampa after a few years kevin  also graduated and joined the military   kevin tragically died in a car accident about  a year later in 2003 once nicole graduated   high school she began attending florida state  university in tallahassee initially working   toward a degree in history but eventually changing  her major to public relations her dorm roommate   from her freshman year testified that nicole  had told her there was no future in history   she completed her freshman year in the summer  of 2015 and was back living with her mother and   stepfather during the summer break she had  also visited her brother joey that summer   now when you would visit the nicole did with the  mom with your mom did everything seem normal did   you see any sort of fighting or loud argument when  you were there between who said just the family   did you see any strife or anything that caused you  concern no there's nothing that causes concern now in the summer of 2015 did you see nicole at all  that summer yes when did you see her the summer   word after before the incident all right  um what uh did you see her here in tampa   or where where was she no i was living in  washington state she visited me out there   now were you already married by then yes and you  already had your kids yes okay and um how long   did she stay with you that summer of 2015. uh  three weeks to a month somewhere in that area while she was there that summer of 2015 does she  ever discuss any issues with you about your mom nothing out of the ordinary okay nothing just  typical did she ever mention to you that she was   concerned about your mom or concerned about their  relationship or anything that she was worried   about no did um did she ever discuss with you any  issues at school or things that were going on at   school problems she was dealing with at school i  mean uh on that specific visit i don't remember   typical typical problems you know bullying or  whatever okay so she didn't she didn't fight   you some things but anything that caused you a  lot alarm or concern at that point no and what   was your understanding as to where she would be  going in the fall at a florida state university was that the last time you saw the cold army  before the sun sites yes nicole turned in her   application for student housing at fsu late and  was told that there were no spaces left in the   dorms this was a problem because tallahassee  was at least a four-hour drive from tampa which   meant commuting wasn't an option she started  implementing a new plan but after a few days   she got a call from the school and was told that  they had gotten her a spot in overflow housing   overflow housing was a small community area and  one of the dorms that had been converted to a   room with a couple of sets of bunk beds and some  dressers students could live there temporarily   until one of the permanent dorm rooms became  available this would happen because some students   would inevitably not show up at the beginning  of the term giving up their spot in the dorm   the offer of a spot in overflow housing required  a 100 fee nicole didn't have 100 so on august 19th   she called her cousin david lear who lived nearby  and asked if she could borrow the money i was at   work and i guess sometime in the morning she had  called me so i was too busy to get the phone so i   after the call was over i text her and i told her  that i'm at work that i'm busy um you know what   you know what's going on and then she texts me um  she wouldn't know she would talk to me or whatever   and then i said okay i said how about after work  and she said fine and that was that was it okay so what time did you get off work that  day uh i imagine two o'clock okay yeah   starts to thirty somewhere in there two or two  thirty yeah and did you head straight on oh yes   about approximately what time you got home uh i  think it was around three that day okay and did   you did you call them nicole not went back uh  i totally forgot to call her back um you know   i just i just slipped my mind uh so as exactly um  as i was coming home i was pulling to the driveway   the phone rang it was her and um i you know i  then i remembered that she text me so then i   answered the phone she just asked me what i was  doing uh if she can come by and um you know i   kind of asked her yeah i said yeah it's fine um  what was going on and then she asked me she told   me something about if she could borrow money  uh for her dorm room so i said yeah i know i   checked my pockets i had money on me did she did  she tell you how much she needed a hundred dollars and you had that with you yeah i just happened  to have it on me so so what did you what did   you tell her um i told her uh you know i  said yeah come on bye um she's actually   gonna come right away so i said okay i'll wait  in the driveway so you never even went in your   house then no at that time now right and did she  show up shortly after talking to you uh she did   like immediately like probably about five minutes  about five minutes um and after she showed up and   how does she seem um just knowing her regular  demeanor regular demeanor yeah all right um did   she seem upset crying anything like that uh no um  i just knew that she needed to borrow the money   so uh she showed up she gave me a hug and i said  um you know she said she needed the money i gave   it to her uh i made a joke because it was a state  trooper parked next to the house he watches over   students coming off the buses and stuff like that  uh so i made a joke that you know oh you know   i gave her 100 bucks it looks like a drug deal  or something you know like it's just suspicious   whatever um so she said thanks uh we talked about  um she's going back to school so then i asked   her when she's coming back uh probably around  thanksgiving and i said okay you know basically   i'll see you around thanksgiving and she's okay  give me a hug and uh she got back in the car and   okay classes for the fall semester of 2015 at  fsu began on august 24th so nicole was all set   to begin her sophomore year wesley rowe lived next  door to bob and miriam deans on august 20th 2015   his stepdaughter elizabeth had gone to an event at  the high school she was about to start attending   at about nine o'clock that night wesley said he  was inside his house talking to elizabeth about   the information she had brought home about  her upcoming school when they heard shots it   was sometime probably uh like around nine o'clock  or so a little bit after that is it already dark   outside yeah it was already dark outside 9 15 or  something like that we started talking about her   going to high school what was going on how was you  know seeing the high school how was it and what   what room were you all in i was in her bedroom  okay and her bedroom when we look at these houses   looking at this picture uh where where in  your house would she would her bedroom be um   like you almost can see a window there  it's like the farthest to the right   okay are you referring to the wind  the only one as you can see yeah   yeah but one more over this one here  yeah okay so that's her bedroom yes   and you all were in there that night yes all  right what uh what happened while you were in   that room i mean we were speaking and i'm guessing  around 9 20 or maybe a little bit before then   um we heard a pop and then i heard a pop pop  it almost sounded like fireworks and i was   kind of thinking maybe you know there was some  kind of kids outside you know doing fireworks   or goofing off or something so i didn't know  exactly what it was um i basically walked out to   our living room to see what was going on and i  kind of heard like a scream um it wasn't a kid   scream it was kind of scream of you know agony or  miss you know disbelief and next thing i saw was a   shadowy figure around between the two windows  in our living room towards back to that lake   okay all right now i'm gonna get into that with a  little more uh detail with you so um the shots you   said you just described it as bang and then you  said there was a it was a pause and then there   was two more and were the two more were those  more rapid yes they were right after each other   wesley wasn't sure what had happened but he  decided it would be best to call 9-1-1 and   have them come take a look the audio quality  of the call isn't great but it was a standard   call to 9-1-1 just saying they thought  something suspicious might have happened   it wasn't until wesley hung up with 9-1-1 that he  noticed that there was something in his driveway   after i i hung out from the  9-1-1 call i went out to   a front of our kind of our house  inside and we have some windows there   and i was looking outside the windows to see when  the you know deputies or the sheriffs would arrive   so as i was looking out there i saw something in  my driveway at the bottom of my driveway and i   couldn't figure out what it was at first couldn't  picture what i was seeing because it was dark and   there was some street lighting and then i  finally figured out what i was looking at were   shoes and i couldn't understand what what are  these shoes here and then i understood that uh   there was also blue jeans and i figured out that  was a body and it was facing towards the road so   at that point i was really panicking so i went and  called 9-1-1 again from my cell phone he called got shot or 911 they're like laying on the ground  what is the average of the emergency i'm very dry f-e-n-n-s-d-u-r-y drive earlier i think of deputies here now i think so i don't want to go outside after  that it looks like there might be something   i can't really tell they want  to be a body on the ground okay is there anybody else around uh no my  daughter's inside the house okay no i mean   outside renee i don't know no sir you just keep  yourself safe okay i'm not advising you to do is there only one yeah 340 all right sir i went ahead and updated the call  and we do have um more defeats on the way out   there to check everything out okay all right  thank you so much a deputy with the hillsborough   county sheriff's department arrived on the scene  pretty quickly wesley was only on the line with   the second time for less than a minute when  you can hear him say quote i think a deputy's   here now end quote patrol deputy michael pislak  arrived on the scene when i first pulled in the   fensbury drive the south end of it is a cul-de-sac   so i parked outside the cul-de-sac and immediately  upon looking in the cold sack i saw a female white   female excuse me white female body laying in  the driveway of 14108 fensbury drive did you see   anything else around the female no there was  nothing no one moving it was kind of eerie   as you approach the back cul-de-sac that  you've described and approached and got   to the position to park your vehicle do you  recall seeing anybody running from that scene   i did not see anything anything moving no one  running no one walking down the road or any close   by streets anything like that no man no one around  do you recall seeing any cars driving fast away   from that area i did not see any vehicles and did  you see anyone standing outside their home no no at approximately 9 35 at night when you were  called tell it or when you responded tell   us what the lighting was like in that area the  cul-de-sac has a pretty decent lighting for the   area there's a couple street lights around there  so it was pretty well eliminated okay and the   female body that you've described you i believe  you indicated you could see blood yes ma'am   okay what position was the body in the body  was towards the end of the driveway the head   upper body of the area was closer to the roadway  itself while the feet and were pointed up towards   the garage of the residence towards closer up on  the driveway itself so after you park your vehicle   do you go straight to this female i do did you see  any movement at all from a female no man did you   make attempts to determine if she was still alive  or if you could um do any life-saving measures   i did i i put a glove on my right hand  and i went to feel for a pulse on her neck   but was not able to feel for a pulse you call  for ems i did medical services yes ma'am once you   felt that there was no pulse coming from her neck  did you yourself perform any life-saving measures   i did not what observations did you make at that  point once you're standing close to the body   so at that point as i was standing close to the  body i observed a um a casing a bullet casing just   next to her head down towards the roadway itself  did you move it i did not did you move the body   at all in any way i did not move it wasn't  long before the cul-de-sac was flooded with   law enforcement and first responders it  was determined that the victim who would   eventually be identified as miriam deans was  deceased she had died of multiple gunshot wounds   deputy p slack says they did a neighborhood survey  a neighborhood survey is something we'll conduct   on on both in-progress crimes and delayed crimes  for example if i go to your house for a burglary   i'll go ahead and talk to the neighbors  it depends on the housing situations of   the residences but i will talk to um two  to three houses down from the crime scene   on each side across the street i'm looking for  stuff like a witness that saw suspicious vehicle   cameras incidences stuff like that so i went ahead  and began going around to the whole cul-de-sac   the first house they went to was obviously  the house where the body was found when they   knocked on the door wesley was waiting for them  and they asked if they could search the house   of course authorities don't know who the shooter  was or where they went so they check his house and   make sure there are no suspicious individuals  hiding inside the only other person they find   is elizabeth who was hiding in the master bedroom  closet watching videos on her phone while deputies   were doing a neighborhood survey sergeant robert  carr had arrived on scene and was noting his   findings when i first ran on scene i did approach  the female laying in the driveway i did observe   that she did have some sort of trauma based on the  blood near her head and the caller initially came   out as shots were fired so i was looking for shell  casings that could be in the area which there   were two located that i did locate near her feet  which were marked after that and while i was doing   that that is when other deputies were going  door-to-door checking on the welfare of all   the other neighbors and that's when i learned  that there was a door open lights were on and   nobody was coming to the door that was directly  to the right side of where the body was laying at   so what happens when you approach that residence  and the door is slightly open what do you do   i did give permission for the deputies that were  there knocking and announcing their presence to   go ahead and enter the residence just to conduct  a welfare check to see if there any anybody inside   that may be injured okay and when you say you got  permission is this from calling other supervisors   no i made the decision okay at that time at  that time you were one of the supervisors   yes uh prior to entering the residence did  you all make attempts to call out to see if   anyone was inside yes several times okay  and did you receive any response no ma'am   so tell us why you make the decision to go into  that lightning based on the initial call coming   out of shots being fired and there's a female  laying in the driveway next door that's deceased   and the door is open lights are on not getting an  answer you know the safety of human life is our   priority so we want to make sure that everyone  is okay after clearing wesley's house deputies   knocked on the front door of the neighboring  house but the door was partially open sergeant   carr believed there were exigent circumstances  to enter the residence and the deputies began   clearing the house the entire house was cleared  except for a locked bedroom door near the back   of the house not knowing what was on the other  side of that door sergeant carr was called over   because he had experience working with the swat  team who would normally handle a situation where   an active shooter may have barricaded themselves  into a room i initially went in based on the   information given to me that there was a door that  we thought to believe went into a bedroom that was   locked and they couldn't gain access so i went  in to assist what do you observe inside the home   prior to reaching that door tell us what you see  in the home when i went in i went into the left   kitchen table there's a purse a  set of keys laying on the table   as i kept watching walking toward the  back of the residence in the living room   there was the tv was on it appeared that it  could have been a movie that was on on paws   there's a bag of i don't know what type of potato  chips in the recliner as if somebody was sitting   there watching the movie were the lights on inside  the home yes ma'am did you hear anyone in fact not that time okay and i guess i should  say did you see any people inside that   home no so tell us what happens when you go  inside regarding this locked or closed door   not knowing who's inside if anybody did  find a screwdriver to try to defeat the   locking mechanism to unlock the door to  get inside prior to going inside that door   do you go inside the door immediately no tell  us what's going on prior to entering that door   customary if you don't know what's on the other  side of the door you want to make sure you   maintain coverage if there is somebody  inside that you know it's not a friendly   so we're maintaining coverage until we decide  to actually open that door that's locked and   until we decided do we just held our position okay  so when you say maintaining coverage what do you   mean where where are deputies going to sort of  protect everyone residents law enforcement that   sort of thing the ones that are inside there's  a small hallway actually that was leading up to   the door of the locked bedroom there was a  deputy in one of the bedrooms that was open   and at one point i did go in that room as  well backing up prior to going into that room   and on the other side of the wall where the  recliner was in the living room just to the   right of the door we're not going  to stand right in front of the door   they don't stand right in front of the door  when they don't know what's on the other side   it's a healthy strategy sergeant carr used  a screwdriver to unlock the door and the   sheriffs entered the room as i was able to get  the door open door opened in from left to right   i immediately on the floor saw a comforter that  was covering up not knowing exactly what it was   at the time a few seconds later i could see a  gap at the bottom of the comforter near the door   and looked like a a human toe that  was sticking out from underneath there   what did you do at that point grabbed a piece of  that comforter and slowly pulled it back toward   down toward his waist that's when i uh saw that  there was a deceased gentleman laying on his back   okay um other than pulling the comforter back to  confirm the appearance of a deceased body did you   move anything else in any way no ma'am move  the body in any way no ma'am um did you flip   it over anything like that no ma'am was it  clear when you pulled that comforter back   that the gentleman was diseased it  was clear could you see injuries   i saw a little bit of blood near his  mouth but i couldn't see any specific   trauma no other clear bullet hole or  anything like that that you can no ma'am and tell us what it was about him that indicated  to you that he was clearly deceased his color at that point when you make this  observation what do you then do   back out of the room as deputy bristol i believe  stand right side of the door i told him to   maintain where he was at not touching anything  and went outside and revealed my findings the body   in the locked bedroom was identified as robert  deans he was killed by a single gunshot wound to   the back of the head the medical examiner dr lesha  krostowski said that he didn't find any defensive   wounds indicating that it was likely that bob  didn't even know that he was about to be shot   he said that bob was likely killed about a day  before miriam miriam had a gunshot wound to the   head and two shots to the abdomen she also had  abrasions on her forehead dr krastowski stated   that any of the three gunshot wounds would have  been fatal crime scene investigators collected   evidence from the house but the most important  piece was a very faint pink fingerprint on the   wall in the hallway it turned out that the  fingerprint matched nicole and the reason   it was pink was because it had been left in blood  even at the beginning of the investigation before   nicole became a suspect authorities began looking  for her she was a frequent resident of the house   the victims were her parents and the  neighbors had said that they had seen her   not long before the shooting detective michael  messer became the lead investigator and began   talking to miriam's family first because  they were local would family members begin   learning about the deaths of bob and miriam they  initially thought it could be a murder-suicide   after talking to various family members detective  messer was finally able to get nicole on the phone hello hi is this nikki uh it is nikki this is detective messer out of the sheriff's office in hillsborough county uh i'm ... actually that you answered are you okay I I just got a call from my uncle okay and I was I was just gonna tell you I I called your uh ... and spoke to your grandmother and and um I wanted to make sure you're okay obviously but i guess your  uncle told you what's happened he told me my mom's in the hospital um well she's she's not doing very  well um but i i needed to talk to you ... said that you had been staying at your grandmother's house um I.. I I do that sometimes but like I'm in tallahassee oh are you I I I stayed with my mom I left a day or two ago a day or two ago yeah cause I have school on tuesday or monday okay um is there aany way I can meet you up there and talk to you I need to show you some pictures to you uh and instead being your grandmother you're going to be next of kin um okay but your not your not driving right now or anything like that you're actually right now I am oh are you okay well ... I mean I just wanted to uh ... wel - he - I'm o - I'm I'm on campus uh I don't know the area real well other than the campus okay well do you know your address of where you're staying uh yeah I'm in the smith I'm in the smith building um I'll have to go get the address for you now cause I don't really I - know the streets in tallahassee I don't know and they don't really ... ... yeah that fine call me right back though uh if you could cause wait do you know what hospital she's in no i don't actually um and um are you on campus right now driving around or or yeah I'm on campus okay um I really need you to get get to your dorm uh some time and then call me back okay okay alright and I'll wait right wait right for your call uh okay alright thanks nicole initially says that she heard that her  mom was in the hospital detective messer doesn't   immediately tell her that her mother is dead  which is not uncommon in a homicide investigation   she tells the detective that she's been  in tallahassee for the last couple of days   they discuss meeting so he can ask her some  questions and he asks her to call him back   with the address of her dorm when he  doesn't receive a call back from her   detective messer has her uncle eric lear call  her and record the phone call what's going on he called me back and he said that your mom you know is gone but apparently someone  handed to your mom and she's bashed away   are you ready maggie i'm sorry only intentionally um um you sure not sure detective messer later learns  that nicole ended up calling his office number and   left a voicemail but she didn't leave her address  it's important to note that in this phone call she   isn't exactly clear when she left tampa she also  instantly starts putting blame on other people   and she catches herself saying she's fine then  quickly says quote no i'm not end quote i also   find it interesting that it's only been a matter  of hours since miriam was killed and bob's body   was discovered but her uncle is already pretty  suspicious of her during his phone call with her   he doesn't seem entirely convinced when she says  she left on the 19th and that she wasn't involved   in the murder her half-brother joey called her  initially to find out how she was doing after   hearing the news so you know i started off with  the normal chit chat love you we'll see you soon   and then she just was quiet for a second  and then she said i'm gonna miss you joey   just like that just very matter of  fact i'm gonna miss you joey yeah   right what did you think  when you heard her say that   i didn't know what she meant the first time she  said it um and i don't think i made sense of it   just yet and i said what you know something like  say that again or what i'm just gonna miss you   and i said what do you mean and then at this  point saying out loud sounds weird but i was   thinking maybe she was thinking of hurting  herself because she's her mom's gone so um   but i didn't want to put words in her mouth and i  was like what do you what do you mean i was like i want to say i said you're thinking you're  hurting yourself now at this point and she said   no i don't think i'd do that i said so what do you  mean by that and then she got quiet again and then   she says i shot him i said you did what i shot i  shot mom and bob i said i remember leaning forward   remember leaning forward on the couch and saying  it again it's like what do you mean you shut them   up bob i said why'd you do that or something to  that effect and she just started crying really bad   and talking really fast and i couldn't understand  what she was saying i was trying to calm her down and uh eventually trying to get her to calm down  and make sense of what she's saying and eventually   she got to the point where she was explaining that  ever since she got back from london her school   trip that she said uncontrollable screaming  in her head and like a hypebit screaming   and that um it was affecting her sleep and  she was having nightmares from it and then i tried to calm her down some more and then  she said if i'd only gotten a good news phone   call about the dorms earlier if i only got the  good news phone call about the dorms earlier   i would have had to do it and i didn't know what  she meant by that i didn't know anything about the   dorm situation i didn't i didn't know what she was  meaning by that and then she said something that   i remember you know um i was i'm sorry i had to  do it i'm not sorry that i did it but i'm sorry   i had to do it um and then she was you know more  crying and things like that and then i remember   thinking to myself well i need to i don't know  what to do now so um i'm gonna call my family and   have them help me think correctly about this  so after finding out that she wasn't going   to get a dorm at fsu she believed that she  needed to kill her mother and her stepfather   it was because she heard screaming inside her head  so okay so she she described after she shot bob   that a lot of screaming went away in her head it  didn't go away all the way but it went away a lot   and then she described she went up to her dorm  and she was hanging out in the dorm and she kept   seeing the signs in her hallway and her stairwells  saying you know your dreams are almost realized   keep going things like that like motivational  posters and she took that as a sign from god to   go back and finish the job so then she told  me she went back to tampa and she waited in   the house overnight for my mom and then when my  mom got home she said that she got cold feet the   last second she wanted to get out of the house  so she mistimed it she jumped out of the window   to not meet my mom so my mom was walking in the  house and she wanted to jump out the window and   just time it to where she would miss her  and she mistimed it and ran to my mom and   she said my mom said nikki what the [ __ ] are  you doing here and she said she blacked out and   somehow she knows she did it and then  i don't remember if she said she was   in the car driving or she was  getting to the car to drive away did she ever mention anything about you calling  her an animal or something along those lines   um she said she said you can call me a beast but  don't call me a monster or something like that   well i'm gonna call her a monster it's kind of my  thing the problem with what she told her brother   was it wasn't true she never went back to her dorm  after shooting bob the first time she checked into   her dorm was on august 21st a little after 9  00 am she hadn't even gotten to the school yet   when she told detective messer she was driving  around the campus during their first phone call   this was all backed up by the records pulled  from her garmin gps and cell phone tower   records detective messer describes those findings  whenever a cell phone phone call is placed from a   cell phone obviously a cell phone that is has  to communicate with the network so it reaches   out to the nearest cell tower to make contact  and it records that cell power this contact   now when you received the records back from the  from the cell phone company were you able to   determine dates and times and potential locations  of where miss knockman was during that day where   at least where the cell phone was during that day  or during those days at least the tower and the   cell phone accessed yes all right and on august  20th uh the date that um miss snotman told you   and her uncle that she was in tallahassee where in  fact was her uh cell phone um pinging off the wood   tower i'd have to look at the records to be exact  but cell tower is consistent with the residence   or the neighborhood of our residents all right  and did you in fact go out and physically locate   that cell tower and see that cell tower there  was two different cell towers that i located   yes okay and where are those cell towers in  relatively close proximity to the home yes yes and did those time periods and locations  generally correspond with this with   the information you received from the cell towers  yes the gps also showed that nicole's car was in   a very suspicious place at the time of miriam's  murder now specifically um with a specific time   period there was a uh around the time of the  murder where where was the gps was the murder   of miriam deans where was the gps showing that it  was located during that time period it was in a   neighborhood north of the dns residence if i  show you a map of the area would you be able to   orient yourself on it yes now the location down  here 14110 fensburg drive what is that location   that is the uh the scene of the homicide all right  and this uh this home up here 15902 country brook   street uh do you do you know what the location  that is i'm trying to remember his name but it's   uh nicole knockman's cousin's residence david  laird that's not familiar yes it is all right   and when during the course of the murder based  on the gps proximity where uh where is this   location right here what is that that's a  side street fox hunt and i believe hounds   tooth or something like that but that is the  location where the uh the gps from the garmin unit   was located um prior to the homicide prior to the  homicide and just after the homicide would that be   accurate yes all right and just after the homicide  that gps starts from there and starts heading up   to tallahassee would that be accurate yes based  on your recollection of the of the download   based on all of the evidence authorities believed  that this is what happened to bob and miriam deans   miriam had gone out of town for a few days in  august of 2015 leaving bob and nicole at home   miriam was under the impression that nicole  would be leaving to head back to school around   august 19th but when nicole was notified that  she wouldn't be receiving a spot in the dorms   she decided that she was going to murder her  parents sometime around august 19th nicole   took bob's gun from his nightstand and used it  to shoot him in the back of the head from behind   he had no idea what was about to happen  to him nicole then dragged his body from   the area outside of the kitchen down the hall  into one of the bedrooms covered his body with   a comforter and locked the door from the inside  she then cleaned up the floor which was evident   by the mop bucket that was still in the area  by the kitchen when police searched the house   there was still blood spatter on the side of  the refrigerator in the kitchen when crime scene   investigators documented the house at some point  on the 19th after the murder of bob nicole went   to her cousin david lear's house to borrow 100  she told him that she was leaving to travel up   to tallahassee that day but she didn't she went  back home and waited for her mother to return   at one point nicole learned that miriam was  concerned after not hearing back from bob   she said that she had even sent him an email but  received no response at that point nicole tried to   find a way to sign into bob's yahoo mail account  well from the download of the cell phone belonged   to nicole nachman again i mentioned that among  records contained within the phone it included   internet searches and there was an internet search  conducted on the phone of how to reset a yahoo   email password didn't assignment email account  not that i was aware and did mr dean said he   got an email account yes and did the records  actually show or indicate that uh an email had   been forwarded to her phone from that yahoo email  account belonging to mr deans yes and was this   just prior to the murder of miriam deeds yes  nicole didn't want her mother to know that   anything was wrong at the house she wanted her to  come home so she could murder her with no warning   she even moved her car a few neighborhoods over  so her mother wouldn't see her distinct red toyota   prius when she arrived home when miriam came into  the house something caused her to run back outside   where she was gunned down by nicole nicole then  walked to her car that was parked nearby and drove   north at some point she disposed of the gun which  has never been found she eventually made it to fsu   and after checking into the overflow dorm she  met one of the other girls who was staying there   mariel battle had arrived at the dorm a few  days prior and was already in the room when   nicole arrived do you recall what time she was  moving in um maybe 9 or 10 somewhere around there   because i was eating breakfast so it was in the  morning because i had somewhere to be afterwards   was petra in there with you when you saw her no  right and when nicole nutman moved in did she talk   to you at all um yeah she just introduced herself  um and what class she was in and stuff like that   right um did she say anything else to you  what class did she say she was in i know   she was an upperclassman i'm not exactly  sure she was a junior or senior at the time   um and what else if anything did she did she  tell you and she saw um well she was coming   over her stuff and i guess i was like asking  her oh do you have anybody there to help you   and she said her dad was downstairs to  help her because i was concerned because   she looked like she had a lot in her hand okay  um and so anything else that you can remember   the conversation that morning that joel had um  not at that time because um she was in and out   trying to bring her stuff in and then later on um  because i had to leave and go and meet with the   there was like a live coach meeting i have to  go to and then i came back and spoke to her a   little bit then okay so you let go for a while  and what did you recall by the time you came back   um probably around the afternoon um i can't  remember if it was because there was something   else another conversation we had my cameraman was  like the afternoon after i had went somewhere or   beforehand but i do know um she had said that  she wanted me to say that she had moved in the   day before did she tell you who she wanted  you to say that to i guess if anyone asked   all right did you did you find that strange i did  i didn't see anybody asking me like that type of   question so i didn't think it was that important  all right specifically she said that if anyone   asked you she was moved in the day before is that  what you said yes right she wanted mariel to say   that she had moved in the day before committing  a murder and then asking someone you just met to   cover for you is a surefire way to get caught she  also told mariel that her mom had been in a car   accident and was in the hospital detective messer  traveled to tallahassee and questioned nicole   the local police assisted with search warrants  for her dorm and her car they collected her gps   her cell phone and confirmed with the school that  she hadn't signed into the dorm until just a few   hours previously they also spoke with joey again  who told them about her confession nicole nachtman   was placed under arrest by tallahassee police and  she immediately asked for a lawyer so there was   no interrogation she spent the remainder of  her time in the interrogation room talking   about elsa the ice princess from the disney movie  frozen at nicole's trial her defense requested to   have the murders tried separately claiming they  were separate acts which was initially granted   by the judge this meant that at one trial  there could be no mention of the other murder   the prosecutor however argued that it would be  impossible to introduce evidence in one case   without it including information from the other  for instance how would they introduce nicole's   statement i shot them into evidence without the  jury knowing she had killed more than one person   the judge agreed and nicole was tried for both  murders at the same time this put a damper on   the defense as they were claiming that nicole  killed her mother in self-defense they said that   nicole suffered from battered child syndrome and  she believed that she had to kill her mother in   order to save her own life i don't believe that's  true in this case but even if it was how is that   a defense against a murdering bob well for that  murder they claimed that she was suffering from   schizophrenia and didn't know what she was doing  at the time so she had a schizophrenic episode and   committed murder on wednesday but then committed  another murder on thursday out of self-defense   seems unlikely when you try the cases together now  we see why they wanted to try the cases separately   not to mention that she's never shown any  signs of schizophrenia before or after this   one magical episode that explained away her  murder of bob like most defense lawyers do   they had multiple psychiatrists in to testify  to how miriam belittled and abused nicole   which caused her to feel so bad about herself that  she thought her only answer was to kill her mother   first they had psychotherapist kathleen  heidi testify that nicole suffered from   battered child syndrome she testified that miriam  badgered nicole about her weight and appearance   called her worthless and  one time an overweight skank   miriam was alleged to have hit and kicked nicole  though no family members were able to back that up   judge christopher scabella only allowed the  defense to argue self-defense in the murder   of miriam since there was no evidence that  bob had ever been abusive so then forensic   psychiatrist charles ewing testified that nicole  showed symptoms of schizophrenia the prosecutors   had their own psychiatrist evaluate nicole  emily lazuru who you may remember from the john   john chuck case testified that nicole does not  suffer from battered child syndrome and revealed   that the method that dr heidi used to diagnose  nicole was not used anywhere else in psychiatry   do you feel that nicole means the  standard for battered child no right first of all this miss not me is not  currently a child correct correct and she she's 25. now does that factor in your into  your opinion on this issue no it didn't   uh dr heidi used a personality  development skill are you aware of that   i'm aware of it only because of dr heidi okay  so is that is that a scale that's widely used   in the field in diagnosing patients objection  unless he lays a better product than that   answer a few more questions um have you ever  used such a scale no right it is it's taught   in schools have you ever seen the following  schools no have you ever read about it in any   magazines or anything in the circular anything  in the psychiatric field well hopefully i would   write about it more than a magazine but i did  look at it because dr heidi was on another case   that i was involved in at one time and i did  read about it extensively because of that um   and what i found out that essentially dr heidi was  trained by the person that actually designed it   and it was many years ago i believe dr heidi said  it was about 40 years ago when she underwent her   training so that was 40 years ago but as far  as our clinical practice and somebody with as   a psychiatrist medical school in any of our  training and residency there is no training   on that i've never heard of it before before dr  heidi dr lazaru also testified that nicole had no   symptoms of schizophrenia let me ask you did you  feel that this other suffer from schizophrenia no   because she doesn't meet the  criteria for schizophrenia she doesn't have any of the symptoms  the hallucinations she doesn't have   any hallucinations i asked her directly about  symptoms of consistent with schizophrenia she   denied that i asked her about the screaming that  i was i read in other reports she denied that it   was screaming she said that it was a high-pitched  tone that she heard like um like a flat line um   she never described any hallucinations she never  described any voices she never described visual   hallucinations she never described delusions i  asked her specifically about those items she did   not endorse any of those which was consistent also  with the jail medical records that said she did   not have any psychotic symptoms nicole was not  reporting psychotic symptoms to me and i asked   her extensively about it because i knew it was a  cause for clinical concern sesotypal personality   disorder as you guys know i diagnosed her with  that and there are specific things that i look   for in that diagnosis and i specifically asked  her about do you have any types of odd beliefs do   you think any things have special meanings to you  specifically um she denied that except for to say   that she thought that you know certain colors  had certain meanings like purple met royalty which is consistent with average people what  average people think average people think that   purple is royalty her birthstones at amethyst  which is also purple so she had talked about that   um she i asked her do you feel like others talk  about you trying to elicit some paranoid ideations   and she gave me examples in reality of people  talking about her she gave me an example   about some kids in fifth grade that they she was  singing or she was singing and some kids appeared   to like what she was doing and then some other  kids were talking bad about her behind her back   and then so she said yes people have talked  about me before but that is in reality that is   not a psychotic symptom at all so i asked about  i said do you feel that others are do you like   people because that's another thing people are  schizophrenics iconic they don't really relate to   others she said it's 50 50. it depends upon the  person i don't like hanging around mean people   so all this stuff is reality based this is  not delusions this is not somebody talking   about all kinds of odd things i've evaluated  thousands of people many people with schizophrenia   and i have not ever had somebody that is psychotic  when i'm asking these types of questions for them   not to go off into something psychotic i know the  types of questions to ask people to elicit those   symptoms because i want to know if they have those  and she did not report those she almost sounds   angry that someone had diagnosed nicole with  schizophrenia just for the purpose of her defense   she goes on to explain why she doesn't believe  that nicole was suffering from any delusions   when she murdered her mother yes she did talk  about saying that she felt that her mom was   going to kill her it's the whole basis for this  crime right did you feel that was a delusion no   i felt that it was her rationale to be able to  get out of the consequences of her actions so i   thought that that was the basis of malingering  that she felt that her mother was going to hurt   her and she put that forth as the rationale for  this i did not believe that that was a delusion   so you don't believe she really truly thought that  at the time no i don't believe that she thought   that at the time and in fact let me just say that  uh one of the things that sort of supported that   was when i spoke with her about  after she had killed bob and   you know because she said the whole basis for  all of this was that her mom wanted to kill her   i then i asked her or then she had said  she came forward with this and just said   if my mom didn't want to kill me before she is  going to want to now and her right her feeling   would be justified because i killed bob  if she had a delusion about that she would   never have said that she would never have  said if my mom wanted to kill me before   she certainly wants to kill me now because she  knows that that's not she knows that that's not   the case so she said after she killed bob then it  was justified that her mom would want to kill her   she didn't have that thought before she reinforces  her opinion about the diagnosis of schizophrenia   she got communication from fsu got the hundred  dollars from david deposited that into her bank   account filled out the housing paperwork  stand it and send it back to fsu between   the killing of her father and the killing of her  mother a person who's suffering a psychiatrist   no that requires executive functioning and  people with schizophrenia do not have that   they cannot plan like that they're so caught  up in their delusion they're not in reality   so the fact that she's able to communicate with a  university come up with where she's going to get   money get money go to the bank deposit it scan  in an item or fill it all out scan in an item   send it back to university and get housing between  killing one person and killing the second person   that is incompatible with schizophrenia she  stated that nicole had either lied or evaded   questions multiple times during the course of the  investigation she lied in describing her fear that   her mother was going to kill her she lied about  the date on which she killed her stepfather   where she was standing when she fired  the fatal shots and why she killed him   she also lied in her account to her brother about  driving to tallahassee and seeing posters that she   interpreted as signs the defense has detective  messer read text messages from miriam to nicole   in an effort to make her look like an abusive  parent you reviewed this data or these downloads   that the florida department of law enforcement  conducted correct for the cell phone yes yes for the record it's  states exhibit 70 page 335. can you see that the top i'm going to refer to the   message the content of the message at the very  top of the right-hand side can you do that yes   can you read that for the jury yes you need to  weigh yourself to get an idea where you're at   at five feet you should be 100 pounds add  five pounds for every one inch after that   get bob to determine your height and that appears  if you look to the left hand column all the way   down that appears to be a tax of some sort from  miriam deans is that correct that's correct now i'm going to refer you to page  334 of that same extraction report are you able to read that detective or do you  need a figure no that's why i would the third box   third fourth and fifth box beginning at once  to make sure you go back to school looking good   okay beginning of that and continuing yes sir the   the next three um entries  and she replies okay and then mariam says you are 61 inches your weight  should be the max 105 pounds keep that in mind   no meals after 7 pm start alternating days  with salad one day and a meet the other day   stay away from breads and she nicole replies okay  now i'm not saying that miriam was a great mother   from what some of the evidence shows she was harsh  about appearances and seemed to be a hard ass but   in no way does it seem like nicole was a battered  child the prosecutor ends the trial by describing   nicole's real thought process ladies and gentlemen  a lot has been talked about throughout this trial   nicole nachman's thought processes her the way  of talking and the things that she said to people   after this offense i submit to you that the best  evidence of nicole nachman's thought process are   those statements on those calls less than 12  hours after she murdered her mother she has   absolutely no trouble answering the questions his  name is detective messer this is the phone number   i called i left a voicemail she gets the number  back from him she gets the address of where she is   what dorm she's staying in she follows along in a  logical manner having that conversation with both   eric lear and detective messer that is the best  evidence of what's going on in nicole knockman's   mind closest in time to when she committed these  crimes and what does she say are you okay yeah   i'm fine i mean i mean no no i'm not nicole  knockman's fine she's fine with what she's   done but she knows that she shouldn't be she  has the thought to know i shouldn't say this   i shouldn't act like i'm fine what else does she  say less than 12 hours after she killed her mother   well you know she had a lot of people who  didn't like her she's already thought the   police are investigating me they're on the phone  with me i gotta try and put this on someone else   those are conscious thoughts of a murderer  she knows what she did and she's gotta try   and play it up you know there are people that  didn't like mom and you know mom and robert   you know they had issues too these are things  that she's already thought about in her mind   these are not disorganized illogical thoughts  these are not hallucinations at just after 1am   on august 3rd 2019 nicole nachman was found guilty  of two counts of first degree premeditated murder   she was sentenced to life in prison without  the possibility of parole she will never be   released if you're the victim of domestic  abuse please reach out to someone for help   please call the national domestic abuse hotline  at 1-800-799-safe that's 1-800-799-7233 or go   to thehotline.org to chat with someone online the  great thing about this website is that at any time   hitting the escape key twice will instantly  take your browser to a google search page   in the event the abuser is nearby you can assure  that you don't get caught trying to get help   if you're having feelings of harming yourself or  someone else or even just need someone to talk to   please contact your local mental health  facility call 9-1-1 or call mental health   america who operate the national suicide  prevention lifeline at 1-800-273-talk   that's 1-800-273-8255 they're  available 24 hours a day 7 days a week   be safe thanks so much for watching this video  you can help us out by hitting the like button   or leaving us a comment you can also subscribe  to the show to ensure you don't miss an episode   also remember that if you'd like to support  the show the easiest way is to donate a few   bucks at buy me a coffee or check out some of our  merchandise at teespring you can find information   on how to do that along with links to our  social media at thisismonsters.com thanks again you

Channel: this is MONSTERS

Views: 2,768,931

Keywords: True crime, nicole nachtman, murder

Id: 5Kw57TxZTHM

Length: 66min 37sec (3997 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 26 2021