Scientology's Freewinds is Not So Free After All ft. Leah Farrow

hey everybody I am doing an interview here with Leah Farrow and she was is an X C org member at Scientologists who worked on the freewinds the Sea Org motor vessel that is owned by the Church of Scientology and sails around in the Caribbean and is responsible for delivering the highest ot level in Scientology ot level 8 and that is the main purpose and function of the ship but it is also broadened out to also deliver other services courses and that revolve around l ron Hubbard's lectures and and they're also the ship also offers a service called the officer training school for Sea Org members who go there and do leadership training and I think that's now available for public as well they can pay and go there and learn how to be little Sea Org members so anyway that is the ship we're going to talk it with me about all of this so hi Lea hi glad that you that we could finally connect up and make this work yes technology exactly all right well first off let's just talk about you a little bit so how long have you been how long were you in Scientology and how long have you been out of it okay so I was raised in Scientology my parents were Scientologists I had a brother and sister my sister is still a Scientologist actually and my my dad actually was the first to get into it and then he got my his sister's into it so two sisters and then an uncle as well so I've had two aunts and uncle siblings cousins everyone inside all right so they all just mass went in there yeah anyway so I was raised in it and then I basically decided I wasn't a Scientologist around the age of 24 so I'm 38 now just it's about 14 years ago this when I just decided I was done fully okay that was around 2003 or so yes okay and and when were you in the okay so you're raised in it and when were you in the Sea Org so I joined this year when I was 15 in 1994 and I left just before my 21st birthday in 2000 so it was almost in almost six years okay 60 was in which is a good healthy amount of time to be involved in that I mean certainly a deep dip not not just the shallow I was in for a couple months sort of thing okay and of course second-gen like like me and many others so what's the current status with your family now well everyone is out with the exception of my sister okay at this point and she is [Music] she's very much in but she says she would never disconnect with us from us um I'm not declared and my parents are not declared I'm I mean not yet anyway I did I'm sorry did you say you did or did not get declared I'm not or not okay okay well honestly talking to me my change that but okay all right just so we're clear on that because the the church doesn't cotton to folks talking to people like me I mean you know but since you're not in Scientology anymore I don't know I mean you know I don't know how far they're gonna they're gonna stretch their you know who's yeah I don't know if anybody's gonna take the time to actually go through putting the whole package together and sending it on up the line and all that and since you've been out for so long you know who cares yeah what is your what what how is it your sister has managed to you know everybody else kind of going in and then leaving where's she at I mean I don't mean geographically I mean where she had on the bridge and why is she persisting I think that she I don't even think that she's made it too clear yet um a couple of things happened she married a psychologist and his whole family they are all Scientologists so you know and all of her friends are Scientologists which of course mine were too but you know so it's hard to kind of extract herself from that she's also kind of had a little bit of a fortuitous sort of privileged existence in Scientologists and psychology and I mean that not as a diss on her but more just like she got lucky in that most of her experiences have been very positive she hasn't ever been recruited really you know hardcore for whatever reason yeah I don't know like she's lived this time she was kind of like floated through and she's also she used to live she moved out to Los Angeles as a woman she was about 1516 to go to not makes Kingsley ranch there was another ranch out there that she Mojave Desert she went to the Mojave Desert school yeah well she went there and graduated from there but also was a nanny therefore I think the Mojave Desert school yoga yoga leg yes yes okay I believe that she was a nanny to her kid and that paid her way through the school and then and then she ended up moving to Los Angeles to become an actress and then slowly moved kind of did the northern migration she had a family you know so she moved to San Jose and now she lives in Portland so right so she has always been kind of at these smaller orgs from you know adolescents on we used to we lived in Clearwater so she moved to Clearwater that's from Clearwater at 16 broke code and and for whatever reason she hasn't had any of the bad experiences like most of the bad experiences those come from me okay you know okay it's almost like I sometimes I liken it to like you know the senator's kid he doesn't get you know recruited for the war it's like I'm the oldest so somehow I got all of it and she sort of like slid under the radar a little bit new truth and any bad experiences she has had she's attributed to being out tech not being kind of what is intended in the church and so she is you know written it up and pushed back and stuff and most of the time she's gotten a positive outcome but none of a none of the experience have been you know really like big bad experiences it's been like you know oh you know they wrenched me a little too hard and she's happened to have friends in the church you kind of you know are on her side and help her along so it's just I don't know it's kind of a perfect storm somehow that she is escape this many really scathing things yeah interesting well of course you'd have to have people who've had you know positive experiences to continue going I mean you know idiots like us do you know which table stood around until we had something horrible happen to us and then we're like oh yeah okay maybe this isn't everything it's cracked up to be and she hasn't quite had that happened yet so okay I mean you know I'm not gonna blame her for not having had bad things happen to her good for her you know but but interesting I have to ask having interviewed Gloria Smith on my channel here about the Mojave Desert school because she went out there and had a really horrific time was she was your sister sent there for disciplinary reasons or should she just go there because there was a what was the reasoning no she actually I think she met someone or she heard about someone who knew there was an Andy position open and so she went there because she loves horses and wanted to go so she was kind of on staff oh really and then she just finished okay got it all right so she wasn't she wasn't the target audience for that school is that that school tends to target disciplinary you know kids with their troubles and the so she never she never went in there and was on the receiving end of all that you know right yes she kind of again floated right a little right interesting interesting okay fair enough well I you know maybe I hope at some point she doesn't have horrible things happen to her but I hope she twigs on you know the the untruth of the whole thing well yeah and I think you know she and I are gonna talk a little bit more about what happened me I kind of gave her an idea at one point and she's willing to talk about it and so I'm hoping that eventually that will kind of help her see what you know that that's not it's an institutional problem not just like you know an anecdote exactly it is a systemic issue there for sure okay yeah so now you were okay so now first off you join the Sea Org you said what 1994 okay that's funny one year before I did I joined in 95 where did you so you were in clear waters that you joined it flag well actually on the ship so I went to the ship 14 week which was a week for teenagers okay and how many how many people were there that week at the teen week well there were probably about maybe 30 of us 30 teenagers I don't remember how many on the ship boat overall but and a lot of them I knew because I went to a Scientology school so we I had graduated that year I graduated on my 15th birthday from high school so as part of my graduation present my parents paid for half of it and then I paid for the other half through like working a night job and it was kind of just a present for me so I went and you know I was partying and having tons of fun and I don't even think I did of course all I was there and yeah and really in retrospect I think teen week was kind of just like a really clever scheme to get a lot of young people who qualified for this year I'm telling you right now that's exactly what it was yeah get all these eligible Sea Org qualified people young all of us are young oh yeah I mean and I had an amazing time because I I mean there were tons of excursions and I had a lot of friends and we went to the beach and I went horseback riding and I went just everything and so at the time I was 15 I was you know I never had a boyfriend I never you know it was kind of a late bloomer sort of and there was this guy there that the South African guy that started taking it interested me and I see remember he was he was healing yeah and he had an accent yeah yeah anyway so you know and at the time I wouldn't say that he was being a really romantic at all but he definitely was talking to me a lot and he was tall and good-looking and I was this naive fifteen-year-old it was like you know Ugly Duckling kind of and he recruited me okay so um you know I was already kind of you know why I'm bushy-tailed like I was it's a again it was kind of a perfect storm because I was lucky that my parents were very loving and very kind of you know supportive of me and whatever I wanted to do but they also ascribed to the belief of course that I was an adult in the little body so here I am graduating high school on my 15th birthday and instead of being like hey you're done with school like where do you think you would like to go to college and what do you want to do with your life it was like at the time I wanted to be a veterinarian and I said I want to be a veterinarian and my parents were like that's awesome you can do that crickets right reminds reminds me of my Scientology parents at the time when I when I asked them one day about a college fund I'd heard about this thing called college funds that parents do I was like college fund wow really and then I went up to them and I went do I have a college fund and they both just looked at me and then they looked at each other and then they just started laughing and laughing and laughing they thought it was the funniest thing ever that I'd even asked yeah I know it's I mean I have a 13 year old son currently who says he wants to become a doctor and you know that may change of course but I'm sitting here going okay this is what you need to do you know you're gonna be in high school next year and you need to get these grades and you know these are your options and you know and it's like I can't I mean my I will say just for my parents sake I mean they look back and they're like what where we think oh of course my parents - yeah totally yeah exactly so but it's like I'm looking at him going oh my god you know that's I would like that was how basically how old I was so anyway here I was you know wanting to save the world 15 years old no direction you know to speak of and this super cute guy comes and says you know you can drink the see or it gets lots of fun look how fun your how much fun you're having this week you know and so okay was that the pitch was this is it's a lot of fun this is what it's like all the time what you're experiencing is what Sea Org members experience yeah kind of he didn't say that in so many words but it was it was kind of fun he was being very like you know this you know you want you know the whole save the world speech and you can have a higher purpose and stuff and you know the ship is amazing as you can see okay you know okay yeah so it was very much on the purpose line and clearing the planet we're saving the world by sailing around on this ship and showing teenagers a good time and this is this is what you should be doing right okay yeah yeah it's funny how you don't really think about it too much when you're when you're that age you know you just kind of like accept this information you know yeah of course they're saving the world by sailing around and showing teens a good time you know yeah and I always had like a big you know I was craving to help people and I was always you know and so I mean it said right into I mean actually Chris when I was 10 I walked into recruiters office at flack and said I wasn't to join the Sea Org Wow you know I'm my mom was like no you're too young you know I mean but like I always had this like I just want to help people and I want to do good things and so you know it's like kind of sick how that can be twisted around it is and it's and it's it I can't really blame the recruiters I mean I'd like to and sometimes I do but but really they're just they're in it for the same reasons we were in it where some reasons tons of people were in it you know which is okay good we will yeah well let's go ahead and talk about this so you did you go straight to the ship then yes I jumped out of the car from my vacation after I got picked up from the airport and I said you know I'm back and I'm joined I joined the Sea Org and I'm leaving tomorrow Wow so yeah and 15 years old yeah and your parents said my mom said no you aren't my dad said oh just let her go okay and I remember that was actually kind of a conflict between them where my mom was really upset and crying and not wanting me to leave you know from the viewpoint of like I think it's just motherly instincts kicked in you know you're 15 like this is insane and my dad was like now let her go have an adventure do her thing you know my parents actually were both in the Sea Org briefly in LA when I they were in the sea when I was born oh really oh I did you get the pitch okay they joined the Sea Org as part of their whole experience yeah they were it I guess that pack and big blue building right I think and they left when I was about to they took a leave of absence and they came back to Alabama where my dad is from originally and then they kind of wrote to my dad had a friend I don't know it was 70s maybe or early 80s I don't know if it was something happened and they managed to just never come back but they they weren't blown they did officially it was fine I don't know something anyway that's okay all right fair enough yeah well at certainly in the late 70s and early 80s was a time of incredible confusion and flux for Scientology so you know for some people to slip through the cracks is not surprising at all okay interesting okay so then it's funny because well see your mom freaks out your dad's okay with it how far along at that point had your parents gotten in Scientology as far as the bridge progress I think my dad was clear and my mom was grades it's funny neither of my parents never went past clear my mom never made it clear I never made it to clear as a funny anecdote I had a friend who had both parents roti you know three and seven I think and she came over to my house one day well she had been over - a bunch of times and we were good friends we've reconnected she's out of Scientology now - and she recently told me that when she came to my house she was like oh my gosh your parents must be so T because my parents were really friendly and loving and happy you know just my parents are really good people and despite all the Scientology stuff they were always so accepting and loving and like you know supportive and so a lot of my friends who had ot parents who were just like so I called a Scientology Scientology like came to my house and really oh my gosh your parents you know yes I do I know exactly what you're talking about yeah cuz I like I interviewed Tim and Sylvia and they you know the wall and they had been in Clearwater and they talked about other parents in an area who were very harsh with their children as far as applying ethics conditions and and right yeah I I I sort of had a bit of a light experience with that I had I had a few grueling exercises of doing liability conditions but but not as bad as some of the kids in Clearwater had it according to what Tim and Sophia were talking about anyway yeah well it's interesting so I guess that's that is one reason why your folks aren't still in it so then you went to the ship how long did it take like did you really go the next day well I went to the EPS maybe two days later or something like that maybe within the week at flag and I was done the EPS at flag I finished it in like two and a half three weeks whatever and then probably a few days after I finished I was on the ship Wow Wow okay that was before they put all the I know later on they put a lot of restrictions I that was before yeah for you yeah that's because going to the ship now is kind of like going to int there's a whole qualifications process you have to do and lengthy sect checks you have to have a production record that's like a year or two long and you know there's all kinds of safeguards to make sure only the right people go to work there yeah okay and what happened what was your where did how did they start you off now you're working on a ship you're a sea org member you've gone through the EPF which is their version of boot camp so now you've got your Sea Org basics learned as far as how to say yes sir no sir and and what that's all about so then what so okay that TTC is technical training core which is that when they put people in full-time training for technical posts like auditors and supervisors and the people who are gonna be applying the tech to people all day that's that's where they train them for that so right yeah and of course the minute I get there they say no we have this mission from it and you're not gonna go on the TTC and instead we're putting you in this newly formed callin unit so which is also in div 4 so in my you know 15 year old brain I'm like well being before we're auditors are right so anyway in the callin unit was myself and two other women and we our job was to people who already had courses paid for and who hadn't come to receive them so we would call them and say come get your course you know like you already paid for it but of course they'd have to get a flight and pay for the room and board and all that well alright so so we were put in by this int mission that was on the ship that that was my first alright tech tech services they call it yeah that was my first post to the CCS I was doing call it know that services so okay so you're doing call in how does that go I mean you're literally fresh on the boat I mean do you do you even understand the services that you're calling people in for how did you get grooved into this how long were you doing it so I did so I've always again a double-edged sword so because my parents were so supportive and loving and stuff I've always been kind of an overachiever and so you know before I got to the ship I had done student hat and I had done um you know a bunch of like little courses you know up to 15 I think student hat was probably the biggest one I had finished but I finished that in like two and a half weeks you know I mean like right I'm just like overachiever so I understood what I was doing but the pressure was insane because it was an admission we had we had this pressure to produce my my actually my immediate senior with the callin units supervisor where the head of they're all in unit and she was very at the time I didn't realize this but in retrospect she's very verbally abusive very emotionally abusive you know face right thing get in my face one day she would be happy and literally something went set her often and she would just be completely you know insane right now I realize she was getting lots of pressure too but either way so you know I have never dealt with this because I was raised and very calm happy household and so it like mess with me a lot I mean I would be like crying at night every night I would be anytime someone yelled at me in my face I would just like start crying I had no control over it because it never had anyone yell at me like that like no one had raised their voice to that degree you know I've been yelled at as a kid but not in my face you know red like backing me into a corner you know none of that so I was having immediate like I think it was the second or third week I was there I was already having doubts about being there Wow within just a couple weeks yeah because my like you know world view is Shaq I was like you know I was like psychology is happy in Scientology as positive as and Scientology is this and right away I'm like this is none of those things did and did you have the idea at that time did you think this is an anomaly this is something this is on this is these couple of people who are doing this to me or did it start dawning on you that wait a second there's something wrong with this system I definitely I I thought at the time that these people were out text right okay that's you know there were in other words they weren't following Scientology according to the way l ron Hubbard said - right okay yeah and I definitely again looking back the way that I see it now is that the things that are on average said that were kind of off and weird I sort of just ignored and I took the things that helped me write called confirmation bias yeah right and so at the time I was like he wouldn't have wanted it this way this is not how you know and so and again being the good student I am and I'm you know not to toot my own horn but when I can read and understand something and apply it really well so I'm just like this is wrong this is wrong you know I could like quote back tech like you know this is not how you're supposed to do it so right well was there anybody there anybody you could go to for recourse or did you try to like oh hey I think something's wrong with my senior or this situation or you know anything like that no because the admission was putting so much pressure you know there was nowhere to go I will say that the DTS so my call to Collin unit senior senior she never yelled at me she was very good at like pushing back pushing the pressure back and kind of being calm and collect and I give her a lot of credit because she never yelled at me once the entire time that I was there and I know she was getting tons of pressure and I know she was getting I mean I could just see it in her face and you know those people that just refused to pass on the abuse I mean I give them all the credit in the world so she was cool but this Maya media senior right yeah yeah it's rough you know being in that position that being a middle person in a in a position in a setup like that I tons of similar experiences myself so then how long did that last then how long were you in that Collin unit you know what what happened though I think I was there about a year maybe maybe year and a half it's hard to remember how long I was on certain posts but I got busted from it because so well let me back up a couple things were happening one it's incredibly expensive to call from the ship and so every week we would get a certain amount of you know money in the in financial planning or whatever and we would have that amount and usually I would be out of money by about Monday and so but of course I still had to make it go right and so what it ended up happening is I would use my own money so my grandmother actually died and left me like $8,000 and I used probably about 4,000 of that on post because I've never had enough money and I had people screaming at me and you know it's like at the time I thought well I'm doing something wrong I'm not making this money last long enough and I have to use this money on post because this is my fault but of course now I know that's anyway so I use like half my inheritance money for that and I think like I started just not caring a little bit because it's like I was damned if I do damned if I don't you know so what ended up happening and why I got busted it's just funny it's a they were recording all the phone calls and someone that I had talked to a few times I get rapport you know and I'm like sixteen at this point like a 16 year old kid and he was like no I don't want to spend the money to come on the ship and I was like what are you a cheapo that's what I said specifically okay so at the time I didn't even think anything of it because I you know I talked to this guy a few times and he laughed he thought it was hilarious you know and anyway I get called in to the you know this room and I forget it was above the dts I don't even remember that post now but she is like do you know why you're here I'm like no and she plays the tape and I was like oh okay and she is like this is unacceptable joking and degrading and oh okay we have to you have to explain that okay explain joking and degrading because not everybody's gonna understand what the problem with that is so basically like joking degrading is like making fun of something what but why is that such a bad thing in Scientology it's low tone right it's like okay well Hubbard Hubbard actually wrote a bulletin called joking and degrading writer Jay indeed necessary that they refer to it in the Scientology as J and D and if you and he calls people who are Jokers psychotic he says he says if you're if you're running around making jokes about things all the time that's not a sense of humor that's psychotic and it's and it's actually degrading the importance and seriousness of the activity and therefore you're an enemy if you are making fun of things and so the idea of having a sense of humor in Scientology is sometimes a little dangerous because there are people who are of a bit of a fascist mindset who will pull this thing out and start using it on people who are trying to keep things light and airy and going in a sort of a fun way they'll pull out J and D and go your J and D because you're not serious like I am and they'll get people in trouble for that and that apparently is exactly what happened to you which is funny because the guy who thought it was hilarious and he didn't mind and like and also now that I'm older I mean that's kind of my sense of humor anyway is kind of this blunt you know I don't know so anyway Wow you got put on the decks for that yeah he's this man somebody really had it out for you God well I mean so I kind of I don't I think the combination between having kind of the supportive childhood so I had a high self-esteem right like I was very confident and then also understanding what I read I didn't I kind of felt like a little bit you know invincible not in an overconfident way but just sort of like I feel like felt very confident and what I knew and so a lot of times I think that really got to people because I I wasn't I didn't allow myself I will say it's funny cuz okay so obviously I'm in therapy because you know of what happened to me and you'll see more as we go along but even my therapist said this where I didn't really often allow myself to be a victim I uh I fought back all the time and with their own weapons right so oh I definitely had a lot of people who really annoyed with me all the time okay I was gonna ask how did you survive you know the first week or two you're like in this new environment where everything is literally insane and you're getting backed into corners being yelled at yeah and then a year later you're getting busted how did you adjust to that I mean was it just sort of okay now I need to grow up or was it this is how things are and they're kind of out tech but I don't like it but I'm gonna have to live with it anyway or did you try correcting them or like what how did this roll for you I mean sometimes I try correcting them with the tech but honestly I think what I really did is I just sort of like kind of separated myself from the environment and I I kind of you know I made friend I made lots of friends with other people there were a lot of kids my age oh so you know um I made but I made friends and I would just kind of focus on the positive stuff and like for example you know we hadn't watched it as we're when the ship sailed some of us would be doing certain jobs to help the ship sail and I was a lookout and I would be on the bridge like the flying bridge under the stars and I had a friend he would be there with me and it was gorgeous you know I mean just no one yelling at you you're under the stars you're you know we would laugh and joke around and sing songs I mean at 2:00 in the morning right but like you know it's like I lived for those moments I think and the rest I just kind of was like okay this is just filler like I'm just gonna live for these moments you know I would play like at our 20 minute lunch we you know there was a Australian guy who we'd always play like silly games with and he was really into cinema so we would talk about that and you know just you know I also ate a lot I gained like 30 pounds while I was there cuz I was like eating like bread cause I mean I you used as a coping mechanism honestly you know just constantly like shoving my face I would like sneak food and like shove my face with food just eat the most I would put like sugar on bread and Link I was just I mean now I know that's what I was doing it right you know there you you went straight to the ship I guess you were on the EPF for a couple of weeks did you ever go to other bases I ask because I'm curious I've been told that the food on the freewinds is amazeballs like amazingly good and having come up in pack where the food is amazingly bad most of the time I was as curious it was that true or was that just for the public that got the good food and the crew got the yeah most the time we had really good food there were times we're on rice and beans but because that's but yeah missed the time we always had like fresh fruit and I didn't know that we were different than other places I was only on the ship right right the comfort food okay got it so okay so then so then will you get busted so what I mean are there any other things that happen during that first year which I imagine was not you know fun with the you know being in Colin and not being able to even do call and spend your own money I mean that's pretty pretty silly circumstances what anything else happened during that time we should know about you know yeah that's that's really it but no nothing nothing crazy happened just you know the normal up and down getting in trouble when your SATs are down you know staying up all night on you know Wednesday night you know stuff like that or just your typical I mean I it's so silly but yeah it's just your tip and the tools now this is 1994-1995 so there's no internet there's no emails no the tools you have to get people to the ship or the phone and letters yeah we literally had like one of those old printouts you know like those pedometers printers and we just had like one and a highlighter we would just you know it's right okay on that so then what happened after you got busted you're on the Dex what does that mean and and what happened so is you know I worked in an engineer some cleaning and I kind of worked just basically cleaning nothing at this point super hard labor I mean like I would clean the decks you know and sweep the decks and stuff like that but basically what they wanted me to do was just you know go through my conditions I was assigned Allura condition and I forget watch enemy probably and then I just basically worked through my conditions and then they assigned me to being a cabin cleaner so that was my guy did you get when you got busted I'm curious did they get did you get a committee of evidence which is what you're supposed to get if you're actually on a post and you're supposed to get removed and I supposed to just be able to verbally take you off a post okay just curious all right so so you're busted for this incautious calm joke so you spend weeks doing conditions and stuff and then you're now you're cleaning yeah okay so you know very little I mean that that was I will say the best part about that is I was working by myself all day and people just left me alone so you know I found actually that working in the ship org was much more just calm and sort of you know less pressure than the tech org because the ship or what you know focused kind of on the secular side of things just running the ship and so even though a lot of times I have way more cabins and I should and I this is irony to we were always the entire ship as always if we didn't have enough passengers like they wanted us to be and I think 350 at all times which is how much they have on maiden voyage but the irony in this is during made a voyage we would be up all of us all night doing three different posts we would be sleeping in like the course room because we need it because all of the people from it would be sleeping in our cabins right so we would be sleeping in the courtroom or we'd be sleeping in the galley or whatever and we would have to have like three more people helping with the cabins for example you know and I think during maiden voyage I was a cabin cleaner and then I was a waitress at night you know because so like we were at full capacity one week a year and we could hardly wave up with the amount of crew we had so we would always get this out of here you need a ship that doesn't have enough people on it but oh you know in my mind I'm like we would never sleep if we had it perfect how many so 350 is about maxing out on that ship in terms of passengers how many crew worth it no it's just for anybody who's not gonna get this you on the ship you have two activities going on activity number one is running the ship and activity number two is delivering services to Scientologists who come to the ship and the crew who are running the ship are not the same people who are delivering the services you know they're two different organizations right yeah two different orgs and with different hierarchy and different command personnel so the guy who is actually captaining the ship Nate Napier right I think his name is yeah yeah that guy's not the one who's telling the people who were servicing Scientologists what to do he's telling the engine-room what to do he's telling the deck crew what to do he's telling him that you know hey these cabins aren't clean that's his area whereas you have this other woman Sharon Weber who's running the service organization and and she doesn't interfere with how the ship gets run her job is to get people there and service them ya know when I got there she wasn't the she wasn't in charge yet openers got there it was a it was Milt whoa okay yeah he was in charge and he seemed actually really nice I I mean I never had to deal with him directly but like he was you know you kind of know like he just I never saw him yell at anyone and other people may have had about experience with him but he got knocked like there was some sort of big to-do I don't remember at this point but like he got basically like not off of this post and I think scent of lions or not up lines via blind spelling okay you know and then and then Sharon who was the director of inspections and reports at home she's like that's like the chief ethics officer person that's person overall the ethics in other words the hard-ass as the CEO Wow mm-hmm of course she was okay yeah cuz she's hardcore man she does these ethics seminars and she's just like oh she's the worst I have she's like she's also kind of like that again she's really she can be very nice and then the next second she is just laying into you I mean that you know to me is is worse like if she was always horrible then at least you know and expect right but like you're kind of shielding yourself and then she comes in she's like hey how are you doing today and you're like oh I'm doing great why would you say that to me you know it's like then you're like right is that because you're always on eggshells around such people yeah that's exactly what it's extremely abusive yeah okay so just to make it clear on those two organizations so you had gone from this been busted from the service side of things from the service org to the ship org and you're doing all this cleaning and stuff okay so then how many how many crew were there in the in the ship board in the in the in the running the ship part probably 150 at the very most and kind of the same on the other side too like a hundred maybe maybe a little less okay so about 250 to 300 people working on the ship at any one time yeah okay all right and what was the birthing situation like for you in other words what you had a cabin you you were with other people what was that I was I was in a dorm so I was in a dorm that was probably I don't know gosh I'd say it the 200 square feet maybe and there were one two three four six people in it so there they were bunk beds right so there was literally enough room for you to walk in take a left and then there were lockers in between the buck beds on the walls okay so you got a locker area stuff yeah I guess there wasn't and and during that again during that first year like how do you take a day off when you're on the ship I mean if your staffs are up and you take a Liberty day do you get to go ashore do you are you on the ship is the ship regularly onshore or is that in the ocean a lot how does the schedule work on that it's it's mostly actually docked Oh so normally there were times that that usually they tried to schedule the sailing for a night time and when people are asleep so people I think that people wouldn't get seasick okay yeah and then there were times where we would travel maybe flick from one set of islands like we would stay in a set of islands so they covered by Bonaire curaçao the ABC Island so we would go from Island Island kind of stay somewhere two days hop the island right and then we would do that for a few weeks and then maybe we will move on to a different set of islands so we would move on to like the West Indies so we'd go to Barbados Antigua that area there was one other there but I forget and we would travel there so like maybe from going from the ABCs to the West Indies would be a day travel so we would do that during the day of course it would be full day but most of the time we would travel at night so during the day like on the I did on rarely but I did have a few times right the day off and I would go on the ship and those things were fun sometimes I would even have a friend it was off too and you know we would go you know just explore the island and be a tourist for a little while and you know it was actually I mean that was right sure yeah well I just I was just kind of curious about the lifestyle you know like what's it like being a regular ship you know crew member because it's not like everybody's you know down you know what's the word pin holing all day every day you know or or or down in the engine room you know cleaning really nasty horrible hot pipes and gunk I mean there are there are some pleasant times but but it's in the world of New York so right the co typical day is we would wake up early we'd eat breakfast and we would do ship drills so we would either lower the lifeboats and raise them and even if you were in the tech org you still had you know jobs that if there was an emergency or when we were sailing that were you know kind of all hands and you would do kind of ship type stuff so the guy was the lifeboat engineer so I would like to start the engine and stuff like that you know and we would lower them sometimes everybody do these drills where you would pair up with someone and go down to your cabin and then you would be blindfolded and have to find your way back up to the top deck to your lifeboat crawling and blindfolded you know in case of fire right that sort of thing and then we would so we would do that and then we would have you know air cleaning stations of course and then do that from clean what you know whatever a little place was assigned to us and then we would get ready for the day and then start on post and I think we'd be on post by 9:00 so that gives you an idea of how early we started Wow and then you know 20 or 30 minutes for lunch and then we'd have dinner and then supposed to have exercise at night and that never happened and then we're supposed to be off at like 10:00 right but I mean I know that drill alright yeah we would have like every every Saturday we'd have eat in CSP in the morning cleaning clean ship program I yeah well yeah and you were literally clean ship program like we just called it that we were on land all right yeah we're CST time yeah whatever we're doing our laundry and grocery shopping you know getting back to your time track here so what happened after you were cleaning how long did that go on and it wasn't too long it was I would say maybe a year or less you know I was young I didn't have a lot of you know ethics history in general you know it just because I'd never been an adult and so as you know they like young people for certain posts because we qualify for that yeah you haven't gotten into too much trouble yeah so they actually put in a new switchboard on the ship and they put me in they actually so I was promoted right to HCO okay and and I think I was still in the ship organization but I was in each show in the ship organization and I became the switch for an operator so if you called the ship probably around 1996 to 1998 or nine I was the person that you spoke to got it and HCO is what Hubbard communications office man this like trivia so long I know I know just for people who are watching I just like to keep the terminology there's so much of it yeah Division one HCO to the it's the division that is responsible for in the organization for hiring people for ethics and for distributing all the communications throughout the organization all the dispatches and calyxes and phone calls all of that is handled by HCl okay so okay switchboard operator yeah and honestly that was I thought was smooth sailing cuz it was easy all I had my I think my stats were really calls routed or something like that and I mean it was just so easy it was like pushing buttons and you know and I just drew all the time basically and I mean it was if I could have done that forever I would have I would probably I mean I'm yeah I didn't do that forever because I might still be in you know what I mean like because just I mean I'm I kind of flew under the radar there right so so I did that and also around that time so the ship had that way that I don't know how they do it now I'm sure it's similar but the way that they would get kind of mail and packages from the ship to land and race versa is they would actually send a physical courier so they would buy a plane ticket for a crew member and that crew member would check all of this luggage that were big trunks full of mail and packages and stuff like that right and we just paid the fee for the extra heavy luggage and sometimes it was like five or six right and we would just fly to Clearwater where the ship office was and then take and then drop off that stuff and then fly back to back to the ship and take mail back so the ship org I think was responsible for that I can't really remember but anyway I started being sent out every now and then as the courier oh this is so my immediate senior would cover my post because he had others he couldn't really leave the ship he had other you know irons in the fire I guess and he would basically send me as a courier so the four to is this thing about that as my parents lived in Clearwater and so because of that I would drop off the stuff and my parents would pick me up and I would spend the night with them and see them and see my little brother and my little sister and then I would go back to the next day so that also made it a little bit more you know palatable being there because of course you know I think I took one vacation the entire time I was on the ship so um but I got these little tidbits of my family and you know stuff like that and of course you know I think I was 18 at the time or 17 even and I was flying you know flying and I mean you know how it is like you get away from everyone I mean even being able to walk through the airport with no one talking to you and like oh I'm gonna get a burger and sit and talk to the bartender like just being able to do that you feel a human again right was it it was it that much of a contrast for you at this point that that you were like really seeing that you were in this whole little world that was not like the rest of the world I already knew it was not like the rest of the world but I I thought that it that wasn't necessary because we were doing you know God's work I didn't call it that time but you know like I felt I felt like that was like a badge of honor I was still kind of on the on the thing especially at that point because I was kind of protected from a lot of the insanity at that Polk Coast and so I felt like you know I was kind of I mean I was kind of elitist about it I probably probably you know like yes I'm these people are so at ethics and they're you know these these cute little walks right or whatever you know but at the same time I got to you know get a piece of Itza with no one and eat at my leisure when I had a two hour later right so like those things were really nice I was kind of getting a little bit of the best world the best of us right did you did you ever have to route calls from Miscavige or other senior senior senior people so I did it and I don't remember I'm calling in but definitely during maiden voyage they would call the switchboard and I would have to page people all the time so you know I would talk to gamla sev I talked to Ron Miscavige not senior but honey David Miscavige's brother yeah he was at the time a lot of people from gold like during maiden voyage I talked to all of them briefly I mean I would just rat calls all the time and page people constantly over the loudspeaker you know and stuff like that so um and then when I actually this is funny when so when I was in well this is later on I did meet David this kind of fun time and ironically he was very nice to me but it's I'll tell you I can tell you about that so basically after that period of about two years I got and this time and this is the I got promoted to see your curcumin officer okay alright so now you're the one who's getting people into the Sea Org right so I'm about 18 yeah 19 was that guy who recruited you a Sea Org recruitment officer or is he just doing that as as just part of teen week he was just okay yeah he wasn't by this point I think he's gone oh okay yeah all right so soro the soro post the the wonderful awesome amazing sorrow post oh yeah talk about going from going from near invisibility on the switchboard to right on the frying pan I mean so again and I went from either the Colin unit where you couldn't win to the Soraa where you couldn't win because the the same at the same point probably a few months after I six months maybe after I got to Sawyer they implemented all of those you know stops to being able to get to this oh the whole qualification sound yeah yeah and so people are constantly pressuring me to get people on the ship because they need this post fill under this post and I'm like well I got you know four people in the last three months on to the EPF but they're just sitting there and you know that's not on me you know so it's like I'm getting all this pressure and I'm like uh why don't you go talk to them like this is nothing I can do no no thought you get him through that evening faster go go go well if you had more people if you had more people at the EPF then they'd be going through faster right or they may be done a thief yes I'm just sitting in the ship office and Clearwater just waiting to come to this you know and it's like what am i you know so it's just funny but I actually recruited I don't know if you talked to her but Ramona do you know Ramona Venus browning I don't know her no she was okay she she was in Australia and with Celeste I do folks right yeah blast conniver I did not recruit her of course but we both yeah and she and I became really good friends and so Romana I also I recruited and she has come and spoken out on Australian like 2020 and stuff with Valeska they know each other of course so she was about 15 when I recruited her 16 and she I recruited her along with a guy in the CMO come in Commodores messengers organization so he was you know higher than me and then she ended up marrying him and anyway she was in a longer than me I left and she stayed in and she ended up going up to CMO in the on the ship and she so the irony is I recruited her and she actually ended up coming on the ship quickly because it was right before all those qualifications and she ended up being senior dato sure recruit my senior happens yeah yeah so she ended up being like kind of a hard-ass a bunch of times but whatever I recruited her so I deserve it okay all right I get that now so how long did you did you stay a recruiter so I was a recruiter until the day I believe okay good and we will get to that okay good now how were you taught to recruit Sea Org members I read there's a book actually it's a secular books I was made to read and now I can't remember it was something about selling big sales what big fleet sales closing techniques by les Dane yes yes that is the sales manual for Scientology yeah I mean I mean honestly Chris I was pretty good at it comparatively like I mean I didn't have huge stats but I was better I actually had I was told at one point that I recruited more people than any syrup sooro before me and I will say that I I felt like at the time I never liked I never did any of these things or you like someone in a room and not let them leave till they sign a contract or any of those things like I was really good at just like like selling the tree you know it's like like don't you want to help people the plans going to like this is how you do it like you know that sort of thing and which I kind of still believed at the time yeah I was wondering about that like how much exposure did you have to the planet to know that it was going to and how did you present that to people well I didn't have a lot of exposure to the planet but you know I guess I've been sold that told that so many of times myself I believed it you know and um just kind of this sort of naive just wish to help the world I still haven't you know and I still wanted other people you know I still believed Scientology was the only way to help I really did so um like even though I had you know the start was pretty rough and then it got better and so by this point you know I'm pretty like chill and I'm pretty you know good and it didn't get like it kind of all came to a head and that's when I was just like oh my god like you know if something had to happen for me to kind of have this moment where I just like screw all of this and so I will get to that sure but um anyway so at this point it's still kind of I believed what I was selling right right it's very hard to be a recruiter and not yeah it's very hard to be on there on the on the fence or not want to be there and and and keep doing that work weren't there any other I'm just curious were there any other training you had or seminars you went to or anything like that to be a recruiter or did you just kind of have a have a knack for it yeah I think I just had a knack for it I mean you know I was outgoing and I was young and you know friendly and it just kind of you know at the time I thought I was doing a really bad job of course because I was getting yelled at constantly nothing was that well that's the thing nothing it doesn't matter how much you produce it's never enough yeah but but yeah I just you know I just went out and talked to people you know I mean it's funny too because I had a very limited pool from which to you know talk to because well I was gonna ask you why did you ever have times when there was just no one on the ship qualified to recruit yeah I mean what would end up happening on occasion is we would have you know ship missions out to try to get people to the ship and sometimes they would have someone there that they you know found right for the picking and I would they would have him call me and we would kind of do like a tag-team in that respect so I did that a couple of times but yeah I mean yeah there were times where it's like what am I gonna do you know just busywork or whatever I mean and there were times where like I would just falsify my stats like you know yeah you know this guy started the EPF and ciello East us or whatever and maybe he hadn't quite you know it's like I mean it didn't happen a lot a lot but like there were definitely times where you're like it is just like I needed them off my back you know and I knew that they maybe they didn't start like right before 2:00 but they started like the next day or you know whatever it's like nothing like I didn't make anyone up but it definitely like you know whatever so but overall everyone with everyone how many do you do you know average or estimate how many folks you recruited into the sea work I guess I don't know how many actually like made it like for the EPS and stuff but I would probably say I recruited probably 50 to 75 people in about three years okay okay cool and okay good so then and was sharing down on you often on that oh yes yeah she was so this is this is a good segue into what the Miscavige okay so Sharon was just like the little the big nap that would never go away always on me right you know I mean if my SATs were up that week maybe I'd have like a little bit of reprieve but even if I stack up that week if I wasn't in like an upward trend overall still right you know so she was always on me yelling at me constantly just and so so we so its maiden voyage and so david miscavige usually does kind of his rounds where he'll go from the department department so you know code the buzz it's like see you abuse coming so I've never met him and of course I thought that he was wonderful at the time and I'm you know we're all standing next our stat graphs that are nicely just Leggett and he comes in and at this point literally probably an hour prior I was getting my face ripped off by Cher however for not having had enough recruits right because it was me more voltage so I'm supposed to be recruiting all these ideas so anyway right so I'm standing there and CEO he comes in and he looks you know going to shake his hand and I didn't reduce myself and whatever any like semi stacked and he goes your stats are in normal that's very well done good job you're doing a really good job and sharing web bears like oh yeah she's she's doing a great job man I hate that crap and it's and it's unavoidable when that environment I mean it Sharon had no other choice but Jesus you know I I knew Sharon Webber was a douche right I already knew that so like in my head and I didn't have any respect for her you know she had been married like three times and she was like really rude to her husband's like I would see this stuff alright and you know thank God for my parents for like I mean bad that they raised me in Scientology I thank God that they raised me in an environment that at least I could I could spot abusive behavior you know I could see what was like abnormal or not okay you know it's like apart from Scientology right just you know because parents love each other too like they're nice to each other you know anyway so so yeah so I just had I have had like very I had to kind of you know I didn't want her math so I would listen to her and do what she said but I hadn't zero respect for her Asperger's and that's a really important point that the authoritarians miss all the time a hundred percent of the time they miss it you know they think that your fear is respect yeah and it has nothing to do with it yeah and she would always I mean I would get in trouble constantly also because I was I was always kind to people even if they were in trouble so like if someone was on the decks right I would still say hi to them I would ask how they were doing if they were doing okay Valeska reminded me of this but one time she was you know upset because she was you know away from her parents and family and being hidden on the ship which I didn't realize that was going on at the time and I brought her some ice cream and when we got back in touch after you know which was like about a year ago or something um she is like I always remember that you brought me ice cream because I was you know so I was always like you know looking out kind of for the little guy or if one of my friends was on the decks I wasn't going to be a dick to them they were my friends right so I would I kind of I wouldn't like buddy-buddy with them but I would be like hey I hope you're doing okay you know I hope you come back and join us you know so kindness right so I remember this one time there was a guy I think I forget his post but he was an officer and higher than me and for some reason he was on the deck so when you're on the decks like if people in good standing walk by you you're supposed to like go to the side and let them walk past you right so this guy who had always been very nice to me even you know he was above me or whatever I'm walking by and he you know go to the side and I'm not and I never made it office or anything I forget but uh and I said hey I said how are you doing are you okay you know and said hi to him and then what you know literally like a three-second exchange and sharing whatever comes around the corner and she's like you know just yelling in my face and I remember that was a turning point for me because I remember thinking like if you can't be kind to someone when they're having trouble right then how are you gonna help that one you know and so that really I feel like that one's what started I'd had doubts throughout you know being there just moments of doubt but that was when I started really kind of maybe this is not what it seems right there you go it's everything because I wasn't the only one who did that every I was one of the only ones that's what's gonna say who was kind of people when they were down people with what my friends when I was on the decks would walk by like they didn't know me right and it was obviously not only encouraged to do that but people were punished if they were kind right and I wouldn't and I wouldn't stop doing it because I was just like this is in my mind I was like this is not I don't think you know at the time I sold no so now I'm like separating myself a little from the church but I'm still kind of like this is not what LRH intended right I'm just like okay this whole system is broken is what I thought at the time and of course when you learn how Hubbard ran the ship you find out no the system's not broken that's exactly how he ran it right now yeah but at the time yeah you have this whole other and vision of what Hubbard was all about because of what you're told when you're in the church now Hubbard what above Sharon Weber he in the free ones the Sea Org and then I finally got out for good and then it so it took me a few more years to disabuse myself of the entire right you know yeah organ yeah okay so how did this go from doubts and reservations and wait a second something's wrong here too I'm getting the out and you blow I mean that's that's something especially from the ship how'd you do it okay so this is a really like adventurous strategy so so what happened was my parents had planned since I was very little and my dad is very enamored by the southwest and the Grand Canyon and stuff so they had planned this family trip that my dad had been telling me about since I was like 10 years old to go out to you know this huge family trip to go out to Arizona in the Grand Canyon and Las Vegas and all of that so here I am I think I was 19 or 20 and my dad says okay we're all going and so I'm like I'm going to so I put it in my leave three weeks wow you went for that you went for the whole tamale the whole enchilada cuz I up until this point I think I have taken o21 weekly okay okay yeah and almost six right want more leaves than I ever got in 17 years but yeah so again this is me being like Authority in people side right this is what this is the policy I'm supposed to get these you know so I get my leave arrived okay and I'm ready to go I have my plane ticket bought everything I use some of my the last part of my grandmother's inheritance to you know my parents bought my plane ticket but to like for extra stuff you know I'm ready for my vacation whatever and of course they don't start the leaving sex act till a day before I'm supposed to go always last minute I can't get right I can't get through it I can't get through it and maybe it was two days before so then the next day I'm told by the LRH calm the LC that my that I can't go my stats are down that week so I'm not alone well my I call my mom you know upset and I tell her and my mom calls the ship my parents aren't great standing right my mom falls LRH calm and other age calm tells her that I knew all along that I wasn't gonna be able to go oh come on right and I was lying to my mom about it so they always come literally shifts the entire blame to you for her Wow who was that Jane I don't know who that is okay so my mom so right before buster I think this morning muster my mom calls me and I was like did you talk to her and then I'm expecting my mom Tilly like yeah I talked to her and you're gonna be able to go or whatever right and instead my momma blaze into me she believed her right and she is like you knew this this you knew this whole time like I can't believe it you lie and I'm just like tears streaming down my face just like so upset and I'm like trying to convince her I didn't know and she didn't brown right which now if she of course feels horrible about but um and I don't know like it was like something snapped inside of me like the place that I was talking to her was actually where the public talked to people to Lincoln it's like the public phones and I was just like tears streaming down crying and so a public could kind of see me or whatever and like someone asked me if I was okay you know anyway I get off the phone with her and they go up to muster it was um it was Saturday that's why it was like after CSP or whatever I go up to muster and after musters over in front of everyone I walk up to the LRH calm and I delayed into her at the muster oh damn and now now get this people because this is important the LRH communicator is a job that is an it's called a network job in in the organizational structure of Scientology and the LRH calm is at an equal footing with the commanding officer of the organization the LRH communicator is not under Sharon Webber she does not take orders from anybody on that boat the LRH communicator is supposed to be there to ensure that l ron Hubbard's policies and tech are in full force and are being applied standardly across the ship that's the only reason that person is on post and it's and so she she takes the coward's route when she gets confronted on her on your leave by shifting the blame to you and then you as a lowly crewmember not even a div head your ass or oh you're like down in a department right you stand up at a muster in front of God and everybody and and and tell her what's for that way that was seriously ballsy was like what are you you know I just like you know I mean really their big mistake as they underestimated the fact that I had a good relationship with my family you know and they go yeah yeah I go right ahead oh yeah yeah so like I went up to her and like everyone's kind of like talking at each other because I was right after muster and I just went up to her and I said what the did you say to my mom and she was like well I just told her the truth you know and I was like no you didn't and I just was like you know what you know you lied to her liar and so everyone like stops and like looks at what's you know what's going on and I was like I was like you you you and I just like wow nice so I walk so I was walking on the upper deck so there that's where we had muster so there are a lot really like a lot of passengers day and so I walk away and immediately the Dryad are at the time I forget his name he actually was a really nice guy he was way too nice for that position he comes up to me right and he says Lia you're gonna have to come with me and I look at him and I'm like I'm gonna I said I know I'm not coming down with you right now I'm gonna chill out for a little bit and he goes no you have to come with me right now I said if you make me come with you right now I will make a scene and every passenger on this ship will hear me so you have two choices you can go away and wait for me to come down or you can let everyone know what the just happened and he was like all right I'll see a few minutes boy Wow so you would definitely hit a breaking point here I was like what I was in my mind I was like what's the worst hit me what's so much do you can do to me and I didn't at all from one moment think that I would get declared or anything like that because I still felt like the tech was on right so I went down to the dryin R and I was put on like heavy you know engine room only work you know like cleaning SCVNGR spaces let me explain what that is so the engine room the engines the ship that size our multi-storied right so they have decks built around each story kind of of the engines and they have parts of the engines that are hard to clean and one of the part it's a scavengers face and I'm probably an engineer and tell me I'm doing this wrong but basically it's like we're the diesel fuel heavy fuel oil essentially it gets deposited in this space that's about this big and you have to clean it out and so basically you clean it out but it's like toxic fumes and the only thing that that disperses heavy fuel oil is diesel fuel so you'll go up there and you use a rag soaked in diesel fuel and you basically like scoop out this road right so your hair gets I mean you just get covered in this stuff and the only way you can get it off yourself or I was told once using these little fuels so you take like a sponge bath and diesel fuel and then you wipe that off of you you take a shower so I mean it's like the worst job that gives like the real people that mess up you know at that job so like I was doing that and I was just you know okay so the of course my parents got medication without me right um and it was like I was on I was just like I had that like the resolve I was just on a mission and I was like I'm in the out like I'm leaving like these people so what ended up happening is I faked my way up the conditions okay and it took me about two weeks I was just like on it right in my mind in my mind was I'm gonna get up the conditions I'm going to be somehow sent on a courier run mmm where I'm gonna have my passport so that's so it is true then that they confiscate your passports yeah yeah you don't have your passport furnish it and they say it's because the port captain needs it for when we sail doc I don't know if this I doubt it yeah because I don't think that happens on passenger cruises yeah exactly so here's where like the adventure begins okay so actually okay so I had a little bit of money left for my grandmother and I two days after I went up the conditions I got sent on a courier really I was like what I did is I started my plan in motion so I'd always wanted to go to Italy and I'd made friends with some people yeah I know this is where the adventure begins and I made some friends with some passengers on Italy week who and you lived there and I had their numbers right so what I ended up doing is they've sent me on my career round I dropped the off at the office and I went to my parents house like normal I booked myself a flight to Italy the next day Wow so I stole my parents credit cards just in case and then I didn't tell them at all about my plan they were obviously back from oh they had come back by this okay yeah this is probably like three weeks okay so your folks are there did you manage to resolve things with your mom at this point or I don't remember an exact time that we resolved it but she wasn't mad at Kody more so I don't know if she like ended up like believing me I I don't know what happened but um anyway so the next day I instead of going back to the ship I get on a flight to Italy Wow I'm like I'm going and having some fun so I went to Italy I'm out like you're throwing away I'm out so I did a few things right because I had been in hto long enough to know what happens when someone who blows not exactly but I haven't yet so I wanted to give myself as much leeway as I could so a couple things happened one I was sitting in the Miami Airport because I think I had like I went from like Tampa to Miami to Chicago something like that and then Italy and I'm sitting in the airport and I knew that my flight was supposed to arrive at the island the ship was on at like 10:00 or 11:00 that morning and then the ship was going to a different Island and was going to be there at like 6:00 at night so I called the ship and told my flight had been delayed and that I rerouted it to the other okay so that was you wouldn't know right I knew they wouldn't figure out that I was gone until I was already in Italy right so they couldn't like get me there everybody just mark yeah so I did that so I mean for the next 10 days I went to leave Rome I went on vacation anyone have any idea where you were um no not that I know of now I called my parents I think the second or the second day I called from a pay phone in Florence I left a message on their answering machine and I said I took your credit cards just for your emergency purposes I never used her and I can't tell you where I am but I'm safe Wow and of course at this point they're still in Scientology yes and they I found out later that hit they had already been visited by sirak members where is it and they didn't know because I didn't tell him right and you weren't using their credit cards that there was no trace yet yeah no I just I just I just stole wine I would I thought just in case I get myself into a pinch right like I'll have money but but yeah so I I didn't want anyone to be culpable yep right so I did that's why I didn't tell him where I was because I knew they would feel conflicted right and so I just said I'm safe anyway so I spent I mean I had an awesome time in Italy I met up with that guy that I knew from the ship from the passenger I told him I was on Loa he was like I mean this is just like he was like a employed by modeling agencies to be a chaperone for models in Milano like what a job oh my god sure so I stayed in his house really his parents house because they stay with their parents until they're you know whatever and they thought I was just son leave and I went out to like clubs you know with these models you're on just you know I had an awesome time when I went to Rome I went to Florence and I just traveled by myself all around Italy and you know when I was in Milan I stayed with him but and when I travel to like Rome in Florence so I was by myself I went to Venice and you know just I don't know just like a normal person in Italy and I'm thinking at this point I'm gonna go back to the ship and round out properly because I know that I can't be declared right so I I mean I this is all like cognizant purposeful decisions you know I did ten days because I wasn't sure where the cutoff was of the time in other words the policy is if you blow if you take off and you don't return in a reasonable amount of time you'll be declared a suppressive yeah so I was like all right at the time I thought maybe I could just go back to flag and ran out there properly you know so anyway I come back here's another thing I did I changed my flight at the last minute to reroute to a different through a different or get to Tampa Bay Airport that's where I was flying into at a different time because I knew they would be meeting me in the airport so at the very last minute I changed my flight so that they wouldn't be there when I got there and so my parents picked me up I went home I talked to them and by this time like they were pretty cool like they weren't pressuring me to go back they were just kind of I think more concerned for me that's how you know that they're gonna oh yeah you know and so to see every members show up they come sit with me everyone's really nice Sharon Weber gets on the phone with me and says sweetie you know I get it um you know you don't want to get declared because you know you're your you know your brother your sister your family like my brother at this point is like 10 you know like you know you just come back and do it the right way leave properly no problem you know then then you can continue in in Scientology so I buy it right so I go back so when I get back you know media decks set check you know whatever and at this point I saw I want to leave the Sea Org right but how how were you greeted when you get back okay so Sharon wasn't still calling you sweetie when you got to the ship no okay yeah yeah so immediately I get put on this sect check so here's where like it's it's interesting because you know and I'm put on like heavy labor and stuff the same old stuff so in this sect wreck somehow they were convinced I mean they spent a lot of time on this that I of course they were yeah well you've flown to Italy I mean you went halfway around the world and then you hung out with a guy who takes models around their minds immediately gonna go there right and they were just convinced I mean it was question after question after question so so to set the scene here I'm 20 years old I never had a boyfriend I had never kissed a guy you know in fact like I was confident in like my personality in a lot of those ways but I had a lot of like you know it's kind of over wavy and didn't know you guys the only person that I've ever been interested in me on the ship was Sharon Weber's ex-husband ironically bill Strauss and he was like 40 years older than me or 30 years older than me and he had like given me he knew I liked the draw so he'd given me like some like colored pencils or something and I actually wrote a kr on it because I was like this dude it's way too old for me I'm 17 what the are you thinking you know which I don't think it ever went anywhere but um that's so that's the only person that I ever showed any interest in me at all Wow the whole time I'm there yeah so that's that is very unusual for the Sea Org yeah I think I just I wasn't great to look at this at the time I mean I was like a late bloomer well you're clearly not hideous to behold so I'm kind of like that's really weird to me I'm like wow really really are you sure yeah I know it is true I mean I've had plenty of crushes you know on people but it's just I mean it could have been the ship - you know there it's not like there's a ton of crewmembers well you definitely do have a limited number of yeah yeah yeah but you're right I mean most young girls around me we're getting married and like you know at a young age and dating and that just never it never happened to me you know I mean also I was chubby I was pretty chubby you know like I've gained 30 pounds so I think that had to do with it too there a lot there were other young girls my age who were younger and prettier and thinner and stuff like but actually at this point but that I had that Armour for whatever reason anyway so so so you know as any young teenage girl I was of course I had wanted to be in a relationship I mean I have entire teenage years like you're supposed to be dating I mean I didn't date anyone I I was like completing an experience so um so there but then they're asking me all these questions right and I did not go to out to tea at all not even remotely so they're just pounding me and pounding me and pounding me and and it's you know I know it's not an embarrassing thing that this happened but even to say it it's like how could that have happened but like mental like abuse is just so insidious I started like questioning like did I go out - do you not know it like did I have sex and not know I did or look at one point I was like could I be pregnant like I mean I was so like did that I somehow do this and not realize it I mean after like weeks and hours of like you know interrogated I remember there was another guy who wanted to leave at the time and we were eating lunch together that he's out now his name is Giorgio and Sara and I was talking to him about it I said Giorgio like could I be pregnant and I not know it and he's the one who kind of snapped me out of it he goes yeah don't be ridiculous no he's like he's like stop you know he's just like Italian Daisy and I actually I recently like he's on Facebook and he's out and I recently like wrote him I said do you remember when you said that to me and his idea said that really helped me you know I I you know thanked him for that but anyway so like it just kind of I think people haven't been it been through it maybe they see that in are like that's crazy of course you weren't pregnant wait do you think that but being interrogated that long over the same things and not being able to get through it it's not like I could say no I didn't go out to the no I didn't have sex no I didn't do these things and then be like okay let's move on you know that's not what happens and if they're if they've got it in their head that they're doing that that you've done that they're gonna vary that the the tech of it is that you very the question so you're gonna be asked literally not I'm not exaggerating right now 20 different ways whether you have had sex has sexual intercourse sexual activities heavy padding they'll word it 20 different ways to try to hit it from all these different angles to try to get you to cough up that you've done something that you really just didn't do yeah and they don't believe you they believe the meter you know yep yeah exactly yeah so that happened for a while and then there was a small moment in time where I was like well maybe you know I was kind of being guilted about wanting to leave and I thought well maybe I should sing like maybe you know so there was probably a period of about two weeks in in that that I thought maybe I'll stay and I said that in in my sect check and of course Sharon Webber son saw me in the hallway and was like oh my gosh you've decided to stay this is amazing and like you know then I was kind of back in good graces after being on for weeks and but I hadn't actually decided I had been like wavering you know and probably a week later I'm in my sector because now I'm just finishing my sector right or maybe it's a few days later and and I'm like wavering back in the other direction like like maybe I will actually you know at this point I was like kind of going back and forth I was thinking seeing this of like I'm the oldest like just gonna take care of my parents when they get older and like you know stuff like that and I wasn't like certain either way but it's the new I the next irony is that because I had kind of wavered back the other way and I wasn't sure again I'm walking down the hallway and Sharon Webber is like you pieces you know and she's like yelling at me like I'm liar and and I'm like well you just made my decision for me exactly I'm not I'm not staying so this is probably about a few weeks in a month in after I came back so at that point I said I went out I'm done I'm leaving you know and they keep sex checking me on this 2d stuff and I can't get through my SEC check and they keep like yelling at me and whatever and that goes on for about six months six months oh my god so they I know you go in in session every day okay so this is like periodically while I'm in between your Dex work probably like two but six five months of this yeah from the time that I said I'm out I want to leave till the time they let me go Jesus Christ I mean I mine mine took eight months but the SEC check part was a week I mean once I finally got an auditor it went really fast it was just trying to wait for a auditor that took me forever but you were going in periodically and just getting on over and over and over again for six straight months that is thoughtful yeah so Chris the only reason they actually ended up letting me go because there was no end in sight is I threatened to kill myself oh my god yeah so I at the time I had no intention of doing so but again having worked in CEO I knew that you know now the reason I hadn't done that prior because I knew I knew I suspected that they let me go pretty soon after that and the only reason I had been that prior is because I still wanted to be a Scientologist so I knew that it would make it difficult to go in session right if you have them good a suicide threat right you have to like jump through your hoops or something and so I had kind of like put that in my back pocket for like if it just got to the point where I couldn't stand it anymore so I threatened I said you know I'm thinking about ending it all or whatever I made this big threat or whatever and instantaneously they had me on lockdown the good news is they put me in an office an air-conditioned office with a camera and I was just like mandating ID like passenger ID cards you know but it was awesome because I was like in this air-conditioned office and I was proud of that I'm in the Crimea non-stop you know oh yeah they're not gonna have me there they have the equipment at that point where you could start drinking the diesel fuel right yeah my hard labor I was working with at the time FB FB I who had been knocked down there for David minute he pissed me off and they had sent him to the ship yeah and we were cleaning the bilges literally now this is now FBO is flag banking officer this is a senior finance person within the Church of Scientology this is a person at the international level deciding where money goes and ranking it that's the flag banking officer that's their job is to put money in the bank and deal with it and act like a bank and this guy got busted so hard that they sent him from LA where he could have gone to the RPF or he could have gone to Dex over there but they bust this guy so hard that he's cleaning bilges that the ship yeah I think it was what I heard through the rumor mill it had something to do with you know there's like an L Aries policy about cleaning Belgians right so yeah sure like you know like I mean he mentions it in numerous times like oh yeah then you have to clean the bilges or whatever I mean no one ever really did that on the ship right so but like I guess David Miscavige wanted to be well so so I was actually cleaning we clean these villages I mean they were wonderful like IA by the time we were done like because we like you know ground like used like power tools to tighten them down and like we had like i pratices on and they've got all the rust out and then we painted them and everything by the time we were done it's like there were times Rio it's like Fant like fantasize or daydream about like hiding down there and just like coming up and sneaking food and like sleeping Wow so anyway that was one of it so I go it was the type of work I was doing I'd come and just be covered you know there was one time where I was you know they don't really give you a lot of instructions on how to work with these like machines and stuff you know and I had never done any of the stuff there was one time where I had to paint a deck and they used this like really strong oil-based paint and I went into the paint Locker which is where all the paint is kept and I someone I haven't put the top on one of the paint cans I went up to get it and I tipped it a little and it felt like all the paint like fell all over me and I was like I just stood there and all of a sudden it just started burning because it's toxic so I ran to the shower and with my clothes on and everything just like showered you know I mean it got in my eyes I mean oh my god you know stuff like that is quick on a ship a ship goes up and down and side-to-side and moves around they leave a can of toxic paint with no acquit on it yeah you know but no one was trained properly yeah I mean I've always it's funny I only have to comment on this really fast because the PR of the ship is that it is the cleanest most efficient smoothest Saline most amazing machine in the Caribbean right all the pipes are color-coded and you know everything has been worked out to the nuts and the bolts and it's all beautiful and wonderful there and and there isn't any and it's like the most perfect model vessel that everybody else in the Caribbean goes to to look at it and Meyer an award because the Sea Org is so awesome and they show other people what to do this is what I'm saying right now is literally how Scientology presents the ship to Scientologists it's really just a bunch of kids trying to figure it out I mean there are people like higher up like my make your new home is doing you know and he he was a merchant marine I believe before he became the caveat this is everyone so you know there were people that have like real-life experience with ships but then under a certain level you know it's just I mean we're we're kids just about kids Wow you know so anyway so yeah I mean after I got you know after I threatened to kill myself they put me in that room and they had like I remember my back was to the camera and there I had a friend who with a security guard and we were like we used to say that we were so we had the same birthday right so we was joke that we were siblings and he was a security guard so he would come in there sometimes and sit with me and work on these things we weren't allowed to talk but our backs were to the camera and so he would like talk to each other because you couldn't wear anything they could just see it and we would like talk to each other with our backs to the camera you know like doing our work or whatever cuz he wasn't allowed to talk to me because I was you know wanting to leave Wow and you know stuff like that so he's out now - he's not a Scientology buddy but plus you were on an under watch I mean not just security watch but you know suicide watch right yeah you know stuff like that but two days after I threatened to kill myself they let me go that'll do it you know that'll do a dead bodies on the shipper are not easy to explain yeah suddenly the Audi wasn't so important and then after you left I am assuming you went home or where did you land how did you recover from this whole thing and get back on with your life so I'm at home again here's where I'm Way more lucky than a lot of second Jen's and my parents you know my parents welcomed me with open arms I mean again super lucky in that way they tried to get me some like false data stripping I think that's a Scientology procedure by the way Paul stated strict with me that's right that's something to remove supposedly false information from your head so you're not thinking with it anymore right cuz I was you know I wasn't going crazy crazy crazy I mean I wasn't doing drugs and you know just you know going off I don't know I was still virgin and I mean it was like another year I think before or two years before I lost my bikini I mean I was just like still kind of I wasn't you know I immediately got a job I had to learn to drive you know I was I got out in April and I and I turned 21 and died so but you know they were obviously I was like kind of just I don't know I kind of now looking back at the time I wasn't so forward enough to know this but I was kind of just kind of flailing you know and I don't know I just didn't know what to do you know I knew I needed to get a job so I got a job in a Scientology company in HR ironically and the equivalent debate to see oh yeah and and then I you know my parents tried to help me though they they taught me how to drive and I got a driver's license and you know I saved up money nice I had lived with them until you know about 23 or whatever and I think that that you know I was still so incredibly naive that I didn't you know the world was like the equivalent I was like white that was too bright you know it was just like I would see everyone I attack everyone without ethics because I went from like an environment like a pressure cooker where if you walked by a paper piece of paper and didn't pick it up right that was an over so when you wrote when you sat down and wrote up you're over it and withhold it's like that was one of them right I went from that to where you're like oh yeah oh yeah and I wish I was just like what is this world everyone is just insane you know and yeah no not really yeah right right exactly but the standards that you're held to are so incredibly the wackadoodle that you go into this world and I was trying to hold myself kind of to the same standards you know and other people too and so I was constantly getting upset and disappointed and whatever so for a long time I had a lot of trouble and then I heard I mean I adjusted eventually I mean you do right what else are you of course now my cousin actually you know saying how you know you have to adjust like what choice do you have right you know my cousin who is little younger than me he joined I think ala or Astro and he got he was in there for only about two or three years some he got out and he had a hard time adjusting and he ended up killing himself oh my god yeah so I mean you have a choice to adjust or not I guess you know and at the time I wasn't that I mean it Scientology I feel like it's so insidious because of the nature in which it says that everything is your fault right and and you feel I mean the indoctrination is I mean doctrine ation is just that because you don't recognize it as a dr. nation you recognize it as a belief that's not even a belief it's it's something about true right so it takes so long to kind of disabuse yourself of those feelings because you're not even aware that that's something that other people don't believe almost and I think that because of that you know when he did and of killing himself I was really angry at him like like dude it's not that bad mm-hmm you know I feel bad about that now even having I mean I feel bad that I had those feelings because it's like I recognize that you know what we went through was just when you tell a therapist for the first time what you went through and their response is to like stare at you in disbelief you know you really is kind of oh this is pretty bad right I had I know exactly what you mean yeah because it took me a long time to uh normalize what had seemed so normal in the Sea Org right you know like you talk about the cleaning and stuff and I go oh yeah I mean even right now I'm sitting here going well yeah things should be clean yeah but no the people don't really understand that you know it's like no every week in fact randomly every day people are coming around with a white glove running it over the surfaces of your bed and under your bed and and if it's not clean you're at fault and you're like you know I look at that now I'm like oh my god you know or like there was an ethics mission that came to the ship because we constantly didn't have enough people on the ship you know passengers and they implemented this thing that if you're late or if your stats were down or if any any kind of out point right you would immediately get a meter check and so for example you know staying getting two hours of sleep three nights in a row and then the fourth night you sleep through an alarm right and then you get woken up to this bang bang bang bang and like I mean just startled awake and then you get sent straight from that right half a week sleep-deprived you know 16 years old or 17 years old to a meter check where they say oh no you know your needle oh that's dirty like you need to write it up overts and withholds and oh sorry you can't go until you pass your you know meter tech again you can you can't even leave this right you can't go down off on dot off on the dock or anything like that and so it's like you know even now I have to be woken up gently like if someone like knocks at the door or I wake up to a doorbell or anything that's abrupt like I I start panicking you know it's stuff like that that it's the pressure cooker so you don't it takes so long to realize how messed up it exactly exactly yeah and how it affected you and how like how many relationships you ruined in the meantime because of it or you know and I mean nice you know I'm lucky now I'm married to an amazing man but like who under who he saw a psychologist never was but he's so understanding and you know empathetic and just there for me right but like it's so profound like the you start realizing like oh click click click look at all this thing as I up since then because of and I thought it was right and doing so right you know yeah no it is it's it's a crazy upside-down world in that in that world and I wanted to ask you just a couple you know now that we've gone through the whole arc of your story here I just want to go back and touch on a couple things that I know people have asked me about for years I was I was never on the ship I've never even seen the ship yeah I never came to the west coast once and I wasn't there you know and I've just never been over there I've been to Clearwater in the flag but not the ship so so a couple questions did I get asked about all the time right one blue asbestos right so we did go and be dry dock to remove all that okay supposedly I didn't know that it was there it wasn't part of the initial briefing when you got on the ship yeah exactly but I did get tested after I came because my dad actually a couple years after I got out was like did you hear about this and my parents actually sent me to get tested I'm okay and this was a this was a so you didn't learn about it until the dry dock happened I didn't learn about it until I got oh you didn't even they weren't telling anybody no and we they brought in a bunch of like Hungarian workers to it like it wasn't even okay so I think maybe some people in the engine room knew about it maybe but no they didn't they just thought it was like renovations right we're just waiting yeah yeah okay and as far as you know that was all removed at that point well I think so I think that's what it was for was that they were removing it but I only know anything about it because my dad saw that found out about it later okay got in here alright and so like I don't know if they removed all of it then or not okay so so there was just no briefing to the crew about this in any way shape or form all right and that speaks to the next thing I wanted to ask you about which is the compartmentalization of information because like you mentioned Valeska gets sent to the ship and she's trapped there and you had no idea and yet you're you know you're friends with her the FBO it gets sent there and as cleaning bilges because of some whatever I think that's I think that bill just thing was with some nonsense you guys were told because otherwise everybody would have to go to the ship to clean the bilges that they get busted you know what I mean like that doesn't really make a lot of sense something about that guy in particular that he did something to piss off Co be specifically landed him there you know now who knows what that could have been you know maybe he told Co be you know we can't afford you John lobes this week or something I don't know I mean you know yeah who knows but but he ends up there over the years that you were there did you observe anybody else coming into the ship under mysterious circumstances or being sent there or that were there that seemed non sequitur at the time and you just didn't really think about it too much no I don't remember anything else happening I mean people would be I didn't remember any one coming from the outside anyone else coming from the outside you know people would be kind of rotating in and out of the decks especially when that hat we had that at six mission you know constantly just people getting busted and then being on the decks and then off the exit on the decks and off so we had a lot of that kind of consistently and with velasca I knew a little bit I didn't know that she was like the way that was presented to me was like see if he was taking care of her like her mom or dad had been declared I forget which and he was just like protecting her right so as always of course it would be put that way of course it would yeah right yeah so I knew something had happened but I didn't know too much and I it's like she wasn't in trouble she was being protected Wow okay yeah good right all right but you didn't see anybody else being protected that way no I didn't see any I didn't see anyone else being protected I talked to a lot of people like who were in gold and stuff like during the voyage I would talk to them that was like my dream was to go to gold because I'm creative right you know gosh you know looking back I I mean I it's funny to say I lucked out but there are certain things that happened that like if I had been something gold you know that would have been even harder to get yeah yeah oh yeah you know just little things like that where man it's fortuitous that they happen I mean if the LC hadn't done that then I wouldn't have snapped you know and that kind of started the ball rolling with me leaving you know I have friends even now who are still on the ship still in the Sea Org you know and I think about them all yeah I mean you know 14 years later right no longer okay you know I think I think about them all the time and I think like if they only knew right you know life is nice yes it's amazing out here I mean as bad as politics in the world in the economy and all that kind of stuff you know we're gonna be talking about that stuff forever I mean there's always gonna be problems with that but the fact the matter is the world out here is a thousand times better than what goes on in the bubble world of Scientology have you over the years been asked or or you know is there other any other aspects of ship life that you think might be of interest or different from the regular sea org experience that you've seen you know from other X's or other books and memoirs and whatnot I think I mean the obvious main difference is that you're on a ship right so you have to ship duties and that stuff actually I found interesting I mean you had to do like and I became a certified lookout you know and helmsman and stuff and I knew ship terminology and stuff like that so you know I learned how to drop a lifeboat into the water and stuff like that so I mean if anything I was happy for that stuff because it was cool you know that stuff's interesting but oh this is actually unrelated but when I you know when they finally let me leave I did have a comment oh okay so and it this made me think of something they actually so this is the last kind of nail in the coffin from you know my certainty on the tech right so they sat me and at the comment they sat me in front of the Koala SEC who is my friend Rosanna she was my lookout partner you know so we had spent hours and hours and hours together just us two and then of course the to the call SEC and whoever is on the comm have I forget the dinar and some other people so we're sitting there and they tell me okay so here's the deal you either need to go to the RPF or we're gonna declare you oh wow yeah so they Bay they gave you the Sophie's Choice on the RPF Wow yeah yeah and you know what I did so funny I took the policy on the RPF right because it's the Archaea policy says this is what you write right you know sec just one RS ER right yeah all this stuff and I go through none of them say having doubts about the Sea Org right so I didn't qualify for the RPF even according to their standards so I put the policy like for base and I said I don't qualify for the RPF like my such actually were up overall and you know I have doubts and our campus for people who want to stay in the Sea Org but they need to rebuild it I don't even want to be here you know and then the I said how you know show me hi I'm surprised a person like I took that out like I don't qualify to be a suppressive person you know and then of course you know at the there are also tears where I'm like I like clean in to my friend Rosanna and I said Rosanna my little brother he's 10 like you're gonna make me disconnect for my brother Lee like white I don't like this is ridiculous you can't do this anyway I don't know what happened but they didn't end up declaring they let me go Wow well I mean maybe the suicide thing helped - oh got it Oh got it okay okay got it got it got it well you know good for you for standing up and at least pulling out some policies and saying you know this is arbitrary and probably some order from Sharon to be honest that's probably where that came from I'm sure I mean it's just I mean it's insane though because you know in all of this I look back and I think the only reason I had any of the courage to say any of this stuff or fight back or push back at all is because I had a family that was gonna be there for me you know and if I hadn't had that which a lot of people don't have and a lot of so you know then I think it would have been way worse and I would have been like knocked around so much more you know more than I was you know it's like I always think I'm like oh I didn't have it bad I know people who were there for 17 years you know I mean it's like I had an easy in comparison and then like I tell my story to people who are I've never been in and they're like oh that's easy though ya know it's it's weird because what you just said is true I mean there are there are people who you know who experience worse things but but that doesn't this isn't a competent you know I say this to people this isn't a competition we're not we're not in in the victim Olympics you know in talking about Scientology that's not the point of what we're doing this for right right yeah no absolutely it's more like I just feel I just feel like sometimes you know when I've talked about the things that have happened to me and how it affects me it's like I just I almost I feel bad like I almost is another like layer of how I feel bad because it's like what I went through it's nothing compared to a lot of other people and so the fact that it's affected me so profoundly it's like you know I had a wonderful family to fall back on I had you know all these things and so it's like you know it just goes to show you how pervasive the indoctrination is because even now it's like you know I shouldn't be this affected by it it shouldn't have affected me this poorly you know what I mean in ways but of course it does I mean I know logically that it that that's wrong but it's it never ends you know it's like you work every day to try to exactly and I know exactly how you feel I mean I really get it you know cause every day is like you look back on some things and you go oh that wasn't so bad you know yeah we're talking about this stuff and it really they're not that so bad and then you wake up the next day and you look at you go what the was I thinking that wasn't so bad that was insane you know what what do you mean the RPF wasn't that bad i was i mean how what are you talking about or you know being stuck cleaning bilges or whatever you know like yeah I mean or then you know I still have it's starting to I don't have them as much now but I mean 14 15 years later it was no nightmare so you know I would like wake up like my nightmares would always be trapped being trapped somewhere like running around and not being able to escape like usually on the ship like running around the lower decks and not being able to find stairs out or I would have dreams that I rejoined the Sea Org like real dreams that I read and I would wake up and I would be freaking out like and there's like so like for almost for a day I would be in a haze like thinking like reminding myself that I hadn't read oh yeah yeah you know and just like that becomes normal to where you're like and then you realize wait like wait I'm having nightmares something is wrong right right oh no I get it I have there been a couple times I've woken up and wasn't sure which one was reality you know and like like just like and now I thought I have kids you know I would I started waking up and being like I left my children you know and like and just and then but at least there's that relief I think it's not she yeah you know there was one time I almost and I don't know what to say about this except there was one time I woke up and I was almost crying I was so happy that the dream had just been a dream you know yeah yeah yeah you know the gold at the end of the rainbow is that you get to relieve realizing you're not in this [Music] alright well Leah thank you for sharing all of this you know maybe people will have questions in the comments of this video I'll you know I'll send you a link to this so you can you can maybe respond to some of those if you want you know this look this will go up pretty soon and and I just want to again thank you very much for taking the time to share your experiences with me on this and and enlighten folks out there about you know what you went through what this thing is all about and and hopefully answer some questions out there about you know what goes on on the ship specifically that's no problem alright

Channel: Chris Shelton

Views: 58,627

Rating: 4.7545457 out of 5

Keywords: Leah Farrow, Scientology, Freewinds, Sea Organization

Id: hjx5lcDHjD0

Length: 124min 1sec (7441 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 28 2017