School of Theology, Session 12c of 14, Wm Paul Young, May 2019, Morro Bay-CA

so I have uh I have a friend who's taught this to inmates in prison and they'll go around and know they'll go up to somebody and they'll put an arm around them and go hey have you heard the good news it's like what you're included I'm included in what you're included in the love of the Father Son and Holy Spirit and he said every time without exception that he's done that the person immediately begins to tell him why he's not included they begin to confess their sins yeah oh so let me tell you about my my friend Jamie and I love this because this gives you a little window into what life can be like when we begin to not just adopt this but incarnate this right we can where we begin to live inside this kind of reality and and Jamie is such a good example for me because he's doing this and so is his son who was an FBI agent but Jamie when Jamie graduated from from college right before he graduated all these different companies came looking for recruits for their companies and so they would you know they'd meet the company and they'd go through a testing protocol in order to see if they were adequate well one of them was a front company for the CIA and they were acting like who knows what company HR development company or whatever and so they had a test and 440 students took the test and two passed it Jamie being one of the two and once you pass that CIA entry test you are on the CIA radar for the rest of your life because they know already know you've you know you're way ahead of the curve so when he graduates they come and they tell him who they are and they invite him to become a CIA agent field agent and he turns it down and he turns it down he says and he tells him I always wanted to be a cop that's what I wanted to be I wanted to be a policeman and so they said fine and we'll be here if you change your mind you know that kind of thing so he becomes a metro police officer in Washington DC so he's a DC police Metro cop but he he had been taught through whatever I needed to ask him about this specifically but he and by the Holy Spirit how to live inside this but he didn't have a theology for it until OpenTable two years ago right and and he sat at open table in the background and he said he told me just recently because he and I did a men's conference together he said majority yeah did Jordy tell you about that it was unbelievable and so joy so Jamie says he says I'm sitting there listening to John and Baxter and and you and Brad and I'm wanting to jump out of my skin because I'm going like because he'd been told by a lot of people you need a theology for this and he says and here it is this is it this is it right because he's been living in this without knowing the theology for it that by being a cop I'll just I'll tell you why I'll tell you how so an odd thing happens in Washington DC they put him in the in the worst crime areas and in a strange thing happens the arrest rate would go down and the crime rate would go way down which is a total anomaly because in order to get the crime rate down you usually have to arrest more people and this was not happening the arrest rate would go down but the crime rate would go way down and it's like and and but they didn't ask him about it and so when the crime rate went rate down in that area they'd move him to another one the same thing would happen the rest rate would go down crime rate would go way down and they didn't know that when Jamie Jamie built relationships you know because he really believed from the get-go that he was there to serve and protect not be a law enforcement officer right and so he was there to serve and protect both the victim and the perpetrator and he and he knew this right from the beginning and he figured if I can serve and protect the perpetrator from themself or whatever I can begin to make inroads into the crime that's happening in the community right so he would build relationships and so he would he would find out through his network when somebody was going to be attacked or some store was going to be broken into and he he would he would cut it off before it happened and he throw the guy into the back of the squad car and then get in with him and his partner would go get coffee and donuts or something especially if they weren't Jesus people and in terms of their of their thinking and and Jamie would sit there and start asking questions like so do you think your mom this is what she was hoping for you you know that you would one day have an identity as a burglar is that is that what you really wanted and he'd start talking to them as human beings and building relationships and and they'd end up just and and then he would lead them like brad does into an encounter with jesus like an actual encounter right he never asked anybody to say a sinner's prayer or nothing he would tell him you know Jesus lives in you right has always lived in you everything that has happened to you and you've you've participated in Jesus has been there with you and anytime you want you can have a conversation and they go like really and he'd lead them into an encounter with Jesus and then they'd go back and start changing their gangs and all this other stuff and people are going like what is going on right so he gets he gets elevated to a position of Detective and they start he starts solving cases that nobody else could solve and he solved like 24 in a row and he could walk into an interrogation room and walk out with a confession when nobody could even get the guy to say anything right and they're just like what is this and he gets a call from the CIA we need to talk so they get together and he walks into the room to meet with the CIA and the CIA guy's got all 24 of his cases solved on the desk and says to Jamie we've been through your cases with a fine-tooth comb and we haven't been able to figure out how you're doing this and we want to know and he said you're not gonna like the answer and the CIA guy says well you may not like the answer but we haven't been able to find a way to to to figure out what you're doing and we want to know he said well it's really simple I asked the Holy Spirit and I talked to Jesus because I know Jesus lives in that person and I just need to know what's the right question to ask and so I'll go in an interrogation room and before I go in I'm going like Jesus what do I ask this this guy or this gal what do I say or how do you want me to see this and so that's what I do and the guy goes you're you're right don't like the answer but here's our follow-up question can you teach other people how to do this and Jamie says absolutely so for the last ten years Jamie's been teaching the CIA the NSA police departments how to listen to the Holy Spirit and he has never asked one person to commit their life to Jesus or become a Christian he just assumes that we live and move and have our being in Christ and he assumes that the Holy Spirit is there and so there's all this engagement already happening and so he teaches them how to listen to the Holy Spirit have an encounter with Jesus any and he doesn't do any religious stuff with it at all so he was doing one of these interagency training right now he's teaching cops up in Seattle how to listen to the Holy Spirit and and and he lived 20-some years in an Arab country speaks fluent Arabic he does the same thing with the Arabic community except he uses the Quran he says look you know it says you can have an encounter with with God you know Allah comes from Elohim God comes from water nymphs just so you know and but but he's like in the Quran it talks about the only Messiah mentioned in the Quran Jesus Lisa and Jesus is the true way and so you know there's all this language it's already built in and he just leads him into encounter with Jesus and Jesus shows up who would have thought you know and so he did this interagency training and and this young guy comes up to him and he's like who's this super agent Jason Bourne right there's like six of these guys in the US and he's one of them and he's a young younger guy and he's but they got you know multiple PhDs can speak many languages and kill you by winking I don't know but but yeah but he comes up to Jamie up at the conclusion of this seminar thing and says I don't buy this he says I just he said I can't find a hole in what you're doing but I just I can't buy this and Jamie says well I'll tell you what I just got an invitation from the Taliban to come visit them and for a week I'm gonna go and be shuttled between homes of different Taliban leaders all over the Middle East you want to go yeah he's because Jamie still works for the CIA but he's known as the love guy because because he believes that love can change anything right and and I mean I'm telling you some of the tame stories and so so he says you want to go these guy says yeah I mean how often do you get a chance to go and visit with Taliban leadership you know so they start going and about about the third day second day in one of the the hosts of that night says to Jamie after they've been talking in front of this young man says to Jamie says you know you'll never beat us you know the Americans you'll never beat us but if you talk to us about Jesus the way you're talking to me you would win our hearts in two weeks right and so this young guy hears this but then fourth day in they get to the evening meal and finally this young guy says to the the host of that night says I've got a question been bothering me since the first night he says how come every night for supper were in a new place but every night you set a table for four and there's only three of us because it was Jamie a friend of his and this young guy and you you set a table for four but there's only three of us and the Taliban guy goes well it's for your bodyguard you know we every night we ask him to come in if he wants to come and have supper with everybody else and he says he prefers to stay outside and this young guys looking at him and the Taliban guy goes oh you can't see him can you and it blows this kid away because obviously they've got an angel that's been going with him that the Taliban are able to interact with but but this young guy can't right and so that night in the middle of the night Jamie hears sir and he says yeah he says I've been asking God a question for the last 20 minutes and I don't hear anything and Jamie says well what are you asking I've been asking God why my wife and I can't have children of all the things right but he could be asking about it's about real life it's about what's going on in our worlds you know and Jamie says you know I've rarely had God ever answer a why question so maybe change your question change it to maybe God what do you want me to understand about this or how do you want me to look at this you know how do you want me to engage with this there's silence for half an hour sir yes I'm in and Jamie's telling me the story and he says look we just got we just got a text that they're pregnant with their third child right so again when you begin to take the boxes down and you begin to allow for the emergence of a vision of God as father son and holy spirit that is truly worthy of the adoration all the adoration that we can engender suddenly creativity begins to consume all the space because this God is a redeeming genius and we learn to live inside of that love and affection and purpose that we don't even need to know as children who respond to being loved inside the grace of just one day at a time that's how we're designed we're not designed to carry the weight of the world we're not designed you know if our burden is not easy and our you if our yoke is not easy and our burden is not light we're picking up things that don't belong to us and rather than trust we've engaged in creating imaginations that don't exist in trying to control them trying to please a God and we are in Christ who is the pleasure of God he is the seat of satisfaction and and he loves you not because you're a piece of it's because you're his child I mean how many of your kids or grandkids would you say you know I love you but you are a piece of you know you may be full of but you're not a piece of and hey it's a good distinction let me tell you I've actually used that in a conversation not with one of my kids but so if you go inside right now to that safe place the meeting place and you ask Jesus is that true what do you hear the torture ok so you have now confessed right you've told the truth about something that you're dealing with and you've now heard Jesus response to it so you can ask him so how do you want me to look at this and hear what he has to say and then you can choose to agree with the lie that you've exposed or with what he says uh-huh it's all about relationships and Trust right because of what part of what we do and I've coined the term future tripping to kind of cover it we create imaginations that don't exist and try to spend today's grace on something that is today's grace is real sufficient to the day is the grace thereof take no thought for tomorrow tomorrow's got enough issues of its own so the question is not even about the big picture about tomorrow it's about between now and the time you go to sleep right so in a sense the reason and you can hear this for yourself but I can tell you what he's going to say head and it's like you're you're dealing with something that doesn't even exist you know because it's not between now and the time you go to sleep right you are inside the pleasure of God you are you are surrounded by enough I take no thought for tomorrow tomorrow's got enough issues of its own take every empty imagination captive that raises itself up against the knowing of God the underlying lie that was behind that is that do you need me to suffer in order for good to happen or there's there's other woven lies inside of that yeah and it's like that is opposed to the character and nature of one who loves you and and for those of us who live in fear and it's always almost always John O'Donoghue has this beautiful line in his interview with Krista Tippett and he says he's the poet Irish poet and he says almost all stress is a perverted relationship to time right almost all stress is a perverted relationship to time and and so when we future trip we actually leave the presence in which there's fullness of joy and we go into a space that doesn't exist in order that we have some sense of control so we actually think that worry is control and it's all mythological it's not real and so come back to the presence come back to the present and the lies that raise itself up against the knowing of God what do you know about God is he do you know that he's especially fond of you you know do you know because some of those lies are so subtle that's like when you acknowledge them and tell God the truth don't make up a Sunday version of the truth you know tell God the truth like I'm feeling right now that you don't see me that you won't be big enough to handle whatever if you got a future trip at least take Jesus with you you know because in most of our future tripping we don't have the presence of Jesus it's we're alone yeah we're alone right and and it's like immediately if you feel like you're alone ask are you in me right and that'll ground you right back to the presence and then you can ask your questions and you'll get response he lives in you and he's there the Holy Spirit is your teacher yeah so yeah so don't be afraid of that this thing about not telling God the truth oh it's a big deal you know that that passage where and many will say we did miracles in your name and we did we did we preached the gospel in your name and we healed the sick in your name and he says depart from me I never even knew you depart from me to destruction right and it sounds again we bring our hell hell eschatology and we place it on a passage like that but it's actually much simpler than that just think of it this way God does not speak to a false self because it's not real so they're saying we did all this they've created a false self around their religious performance and God is saying false self I never knew you may you be destroyed yeah and that's that's an act of love yeah yeah yeah I'm sure that he had people who spoke it into him as well but I don't know that story yet and I wish I did I tell you that's why I said I need to have a conversation with him about that yeah I imagine yeah whatever yeah yeah exactly so so he he's there in experience first right well that's because when he read the New Testament he actually believed it because it's all over the New Testament yeah you know and and so he's like greater things that you'll do then and all that he believes all that stuff you know like I like it's real yeah and so he just that's what he did from the very beginning was it's it's much simpler and it's much more childlike you know but sure oh and it's wild what he does yeah but he he's his organization that he has now is called identity exchange right and when you can look it up but identity exchange and he works with business yeah he works with business people and he again he does he's not there trying to get anybody to become a Christian he just believes that there are included it depends on who he's talking to so if he's talking to a Muslim he won't he will say my father is a Christian my father my father was a Christian he'll say that that's what I say with the Muslim as well because that just solves the problem of Christian versus Muslim that's oh because it's a family heritage thing because most Muslims don't believe in Islam either but they're but they're Muslim because their father is right so for him to say well my father was it was a Christian then that conversation is over yeah yeah so now it's off the table and now so I tell people all the time especially my people only be a Christian when it's helpful you know like like Paul was a Roman when it was helpful right but for most of the time it's not helpful it's just not I have um I have another friend of mine who I was just with him Tony Whittle and Tony he was a brethren or Nazarene brethren I think like for 35 years a pastor and then suddenly the system started not to work the way that it used to work you know and and the stuff starts falling down and he starts engaging with Baxter and Trinitarian thought and all this kind of stuff and it starts kind of a cataclysmic shift in his thinking so he he he gets invited to go on a mission trip to India and he gets over there and he's he he gets asked would you tell these little children a story these young kids a story and and Tony is six five six six he's a he stands out here but in India he like really stands out and so he's sitting there and any telling this beautiful story about that he got just popped into his mind about Psalm 1 and about the tree that reaches down and you know and like life that comes from the inside out and bears fruit and all that stuff beautiful and and he's telling this story and and he gets this old man bumps into him and Tony's like must have been an accident you know and he starts again and the guy bumps into him again and he this time like Tony's like I'm the man of faith and power here you're kind of interrupting what I'm doing here because he had he hadn't really done anything what he'd been in India now he's doing it something you know and and he's he's like whatever gets bumped into again and he thinks oh he wants a picture with the tall American guy so there's a guy with a Cameron and he he just leans back put his arm around this old man and smiles I've got the picture and I can show it to you later and it smiles and and then he goes back and tap on his shoulder and it's the young man who was with the old man and the young man says sir he was born blind so he'd been actually trying to get by but he didn't know where he was and he kept running into Tony's leg and and Tony goes oh okay about to start again in tap tap tap sir he was born blind and Tony's like well what am I supposed to do you know I mean he's yeah that's what's going on inside of him and so he he just he just just pops into his head and he reaches out and he touches the guy on the chest and he goes while Papa heal you because he'd read the shock you know well Papa heal you and and and it doesn't think twice about it I mean he's from a very concern right the Holy Spirit stopped doing stuff after the first century or at least when the Canon of Scripture was done and so then all of a sudden BAM BAM what he goes what and he looks over and tears running down this man's face because he can see and he was born blind and he can see and the place just goes nuts and and in the middle of all this celebration Tony's like what the hell just happened you know like he had never been involved in anything like this in his entire life and and this guy comes up to a Tony and grabs his hand and he says I'm the mayor from this part of the city and I think God has a has a word for me that you need to give me and Tony is just like he is so far out of his comfort zone it's like and he goes well listen to your wife because that that's that's the only thing that came to his mind right listen and the guy goes thank you thank you thank you and leaves and Tony's like what well that night they were going to have a gathering of the area people and and Tony's there and that Christians are in their group and the Buddhists are in their group and the Muslims are in their group and the non committed czar in their group you know and everybody is stoic and quiet and it's nighttime and in walks this old man who had been born blind and he'd come through the streets by himself in the middle of the night and he comes in there and the place goes crazy and the Buddhists are dancing with the Christians who are dancing with the Muslims and everybody's celebrating this great thing that God has done and Tony feels a tap like what turns and it's the mayor and the mayor is crying and he says thank you I listen to my wife and she saved me from a disastrous business decision that was about to make and so thank you and he says so do I need to become a Christian now and and Tony Tony says and out of my mouth comes something that I would have never believed comes out of my mouth out of my mouth comes absolutely not if you become a Christian nobody here is gonna even listen to you right and that's what comes out of his mouth and he's like what you know totally contrary to everything that he grew up with that it's it's such a violation of our categories we need an us-and-them right we need we need to know who were against in order to exist that is not the kingdom of God the kingdom of God is in you and light comes from the inside out as a river and this holy of Holy's this cubed space that is in your heart and soul that is the Temple of the Holy Spirit that naos has has a light and Jesus is the light and you have a river of life and the and the leaves of the trees along the river and the fruit are for the healing of the nation's right you get to live from the inside out with this life that originates as a river and and I'll show you I've got pictures of the the morning time when it happens with Tony and when he saw the guy at night and it's just it's just beautiful but it takes the walls off it let me tell you one more little story I'm in Australia this about two months ago and I've had a wild year so far so so I'm in Australia and I meet a couple who have a have a church there and and he he tells me how he had been really high up in the signs and wonders legit stuff in India mostly and in literally no this is this is the work of the Holy Spirit stuff not magic stuff because he's but really powerful impactful stuff I mean he even had not only guy was born blind but he had no eyeball he had nothing there and he comes up for prayer and and he's like what do I do in the holy holy spirit just said put your thumb right there and he put his thumb there and the eyeball grew under his thumb right there BAM and but he walked he the Holy Spirit says just walk through and snap your fingers and every time he would somebody who was deaf could hear you know that kind of stuff really incredible stuff well let me say this even though we are opposed to magic as a means to get across the bridge it doesn't mean that when somebody prays the sinner's prayer that nothing happens it's like God is no respecter of our delusions you know he'll climb into anything that we give them as part of a redeeming genius right so so a friend of mine who knew Billy really well in fact my friend died a year to the day after Billy did but they were friends and and Billy Graham said to him I didn't really meet the person of Jesus until after the Crusades and I realized I had never led one person into a relationship with Jesus I led them to a decision and and he had a really sense of regret about that but I know lots of people who went to a Billy Graham crusade and had an encounter with Jesus even though Billy didn't even know what exactly he was doing and and I'm saying this to just say that just because people can identify experiences where God has encountered with him I know a gal who literally was her life was saved by a Hellfire damnation preacher on the streets of the city that she was lost in and I mean it saved her life and she had an encounter with Jesus and although I totally disagree with the methodology and the theology that the guy had but the Holy Spirit climbed into it right or yeah yeah and another yeah and and even our language at this point is is limiting because he wasn't saved in that sense because that's he was saved in that sense but the the outworking of this salvation is why there are multiple tenses for salvation there is the finished work there is also how we are working out this salvation which is an ongoing process just because that is accomplished doesn't mean that everything is okay you still got all this crap and darkness and lies and everything else that's got to be worked out so you get to work out what he's working he who is in you both to will and to do the good the beautiful pleasure right and so but again we're working on reforming our language to find ways to say this in a way that doesn't begin with separation we think of saved in what sense crossing the Great Divide you know he was saved he did something he made the transaction which for us part of that magic is that we ended up saving ourselves that's who saves us you you don't get saved until you confess and repent which is contrary to Calvin and Luther by the way who said that forgiveness precedes confession and repentance unless you're already forgiven you can't even confess or repent anything you don't have any capacity for it and and so we're not talking about movement from the Great Divide we're talking about being included in what Jesus has accomplished and then working it out right working it out yep the truth of our being becomes the way of our being and and we reject piece-of-shit theology you know that that's not the truth of our being the truth of our being is a Nehemiah D yeah that allows you to catch up yeah I used to I've gone back and listened to things that I was teaching when I was in my 20s and a lot of it is really really good but way beyond my experience I could see it I just didn't know how to live it and the integration is where the way of your being is an expression of the truth of your being right the truth of your being is now expressed in the way of your being that's integration that's wholeness or holiness right then that that's a really beautiful thing and again you don't have to future trip how long the integration takes you just enjoy what's inside the grace of today because this is this is where the real world is right here right now that's a that's a beautiful thing oh yes thank you for that I knew I'd gone somewhere and I didn't bring it back so because of the high performance sense of a lot of ministry and stuff that that work that he did almost killed him he he almost lost his marriage he almost lost his relation well he did lose his relationship with his kids he he began to lose his mind because of the stress to perform because he's living under the ministry consciousness of of where a lot of us grew up inside of and he he was standing on the edge of a cliff about to jump off because he was suicidal and and and what pulled him back suddenly he could hear you're a good good father the song right yes you are yes you are right and it pulled him back and at the same time a friend came and found him and said I've come to give you a word from the Lord and he's like great last thing I need right now is a word from the Lord because he's just so scrambled in his head and but he loves to this particular friend and trusts him and says so what is it and his friend said I believe that God told me to tell you that he wants you to build something so small nobody can see it and he said I heard that and the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders and I went back and I built rebuilt my marriage and then I rebuilt my relationship with my kids and I never have to do another sign and wonder in the world and he said now we're trying to just build the culture of family where the speed of a family any healthy family moves at the speed of the slowest yeah where as institutions move at the speed of the vision or the speed of the leadership or whatever and and so now they're building this culture of family and that's the community they got it didn't to speak in in in Australia and it was it was remarkable but both Brad and I and Eden and we we get invited into these blossoming communities of life envisioned entirely different than the way that it has been done in the past and we're just watching the creativity the holy spirit uniquely birthed in the identities of the people involved in that community not something that is placed on them from the outside you know that that we're learning to find out who we are and then the expressions of our life together become an expression of that and it's quite an amazing time I'm watching this as I travel and listen I'm watching it happening around the world and and only the Holy Spirit is in charge of it hopefully it'll stay that way we don't need a new mission there new ministry and you know in some senses it's sort of sad that we have to do all this with theological work but its theology that has really put us in the box to begin with and it requires some time to take it down and because otherwise we're so afraid that God's actually not this good you know and what about separation yeah exactly we globalized separation theology yep I had a woman from Tanzania and she comes up to me theories you know just after I spoke at just outside of Atlanta about two months ago and she says you have got someone has got to come and and free my people from what your missionaries taught us you know and I felt it I could feel that like yep we did we're the ones that perpetrated this all around the planet and if you go to a lot of countries this is the fight that is happening inside the indigenous communities of faith they're all about territory and property on a basis of a god who's whose greatest expression of love is violence you know the cross and it's like mm-hmm we've we've hurt the planet this way but we're watching it come down to yeah we good so holy spirit thank you for our time together thank you that you are the teacher in each of our hearts you know us and we trust that you know us and you know how to unwind the ways that we've been hurt and damaged and lied to and and the things that we perpetrated ourselves you know how to teach us how to grieve those losses and not be shamed by them continue to renew our own hearts and and increase our capacity to love by what we're learning because if we are not growing in our capacity to love then what we're learning is probably not true thank you for your kindness to us and your care and your gentleness but your firmness as well and we declare you are good all the time worthy of our affection and adoration and because you first loved us we have an ability to love you to the praise and the glory and the goodness of the Father Son and Holy Spirit amen

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Id: gnYshY51its

Length: 44min 12sec (2652 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 27 2019