Sarah Edmondson: NXIVM and How I Escaped a Cult

[Music] how you doing everybody I'm Chris free and Bennett with the Vancouver Film schools our storyteller studio podcast today I have a really fascinating guest Sara Edmondson Sarah's story is truly one of the best fits we could ask for on one of these episodes each each week we try to talk about storytelling and how it fits into a whole host of different industries and crafts Arts and Sciences all those things and Sarah as an actor your your last few years have been some of the most tumultuous and certainly newsworthy headline-grabbing years of your entire life your new book scarred the true story of how I escaped nexium the cult that bound my life it just hit newsstands in September and wow you did this Sarah this is an incredible story truly how are you thank you for asking that first that's a great question because it changes and it's you know been a said a crazy couple of years I'm okay too in fact today I'm a great I slept well last night I did normal things I got some exercise in I played with my children these things make me happy this is good yes so let's set up a couple things here there's a lot to talk about one you were in a cult and we're gonna talk about that to you you are a very talented actor and I want to talk about that how that's going but the most important thing right now you're a new mom again mm-hmm little baby boy seven months old right correct congratulations yeah and all of this you decide hey let's have another baby yes and that was eight a book why not write sure like you didn't have anything else going on why not right how is the little baby he's amazing yeah and I have read that kissing your baby actually increases serotonin levels in your body and so that's what I just do I just kiss him all day long and cuddle him and and play with him for sure for sure it does yes so this extraordinary new mom again you you've got it you've got another wonderful son this working mom this actor in the middle of all this let's talk about the cult let's talk about nexium most people watching will have read a little bit or a lot about this I think a lot of people are fascinated by it you and I have known each other for a couple years and we've talked about this a lot and what to me in the story always struck me as as so fascinating and important beyond the fact that you've been so brave and courageous to really get in front of it and be a voice and help people understand and and help others get out of a cult or something like this it's how you got into it to me that was so fascinating and when you told me all these stories over time I remember thinking this could happen to anybody I mean this this could have happened to me when you look back at it now are you still convinced that would you are you smart enough now in hindsight that you would have seen it or was this something unlike anything you ever would have guessed you could have somehow been pulled into and become a part of another great question I think now with the education I have I don't think I'd fall for it again because I now know what these things look like and I know what the red flags are and I know what the template is which is one of the reasons I wrote the book is to give that template to other people I wasn't educated in cults I wasn't educated who is know I don't know maybe a little bit more so now I mean it's because it's become a sure I don't want to say trendy but it's it's it's dominating a lot of different you know feels in terms of their there's a Netflix series about all sorts of different call related you know scripted series and documentary series and of course Leah Remini's series Scientology in the aftermath it's become very popular so people are more aware I think of cults than certainly I was when I joined there's now 15 years ago and I was there for 12 years joining them in 2005 my image of cults was like long robes and drinking goat's blood and shaving your head and like you know weird weird stuff that like you know this is not that no not at all and that that was a fascinating thing and as an actor you there were a lot of actors who were a part of Nexium war walk me through and help me understand that because the there's a reason that that happens that I'm interested I want to share that with our listeners originally when you became involved what did you think you were gonna become a part of okay I just have like three tangents to go on after I remember these things so one is how I got involved into talking about actors and why they loved it so much let's make sure I come back to that I will but I got involved because I met a filmmaker who I really respected and it's great being in this you know venue and also talking to you so I think you'll understand I saw a film called what the bleep do we know and this was a film that came out in the early 2000s was one of the highest-grossing documentary film independent documentary films of all time and it was about spirituality quantum physics and how basically your thoughts affect your reality right it was I think probably the beginning of my journey of spirituality and and I was at a time in my life where I was an actor I still AM an actor but I was not feeling fulfilled with that like I had more purpose in me other than you know beer commercials and vampire TV shows and and don't get me wrong I was very grateful for the career that I had at the time but it wasn't where I thought I would be right by my mid to now late 20s when I met mark this filmmaker and I met him at a film festival and I loved his film and I basically you know was very bit of film moved by the film and he said well if you like my film you may like this program I just took and to me it was like a seminar or workshop right which is not uncommon not a look on youtube or Facebook anytime this week and they're all over the country everywhere everywhere yeah and also my mom is a therapist my dad's a counsellor I've been in this world of develop self development I'd taken other workshops through them before I've always been interested in in bettering myself I'd read books and in that field as well and so this was a natural next step and I also wanted to work with him and this was like kind of compromise you know this is networking it was like let's course you know let's let's change the world the idea for me was shifting the world through conscious shifting media having an effect on the world through media which is you know not just entertainment which is great but how do you shift consciousness which is what the film did what the bleep what the bleep did that I believe so I was I want to be a part of that I don't want to just entertain I also want to help people through media so helping people has always been a big drive for me I was a camp counselor nothing unusual about that yes and when I was choosing my career back in Montreal it was either theater theater school or being a counselor at therapists like my parents it's a psychology or theatre so it's a natural draw it was a very natural fit for me and they were always positioning these events or workshops like a like a learning event right it was designed to come and meet other was it presented as network and meet successful artists or actors or people or was it you know take that was it curriculum or some kind of regular as an artist part of it came later because of mark and I and the people we knew and that's the nature of the actors at the I brought in people similar to me and then it kind of exploded which I'll get to later about that but no it was pitches personal professional development and looking at your belief system and your wiring I mean I I'm so glad we met after I left because I would have met you and thought you were great and totally could have tried to recruit you because you watered thank you well you would have been perfect because you're working you're go-getter you're you're connected you're you have a big vision for yourself like this would be the probably would have wanted to go I mean I'm a member of the American Marketing Association or the you know the CPR like it you're totally right I think there are lots of those things where you know people like me are in the industry like you and I are I guess susceptible is the word it would not have probably raised a flag and it certainly didn't and you know as you tell the story and I'm really familiar with it you had no red flags early on not at that point yeah for me this was it was an opportunity to connect with like-minded people the way that mark pitched it it was also a group of humanitarians that were really shifting the world one person at a time and we're basically doing the things that I wanted to be a part of and all of those things were dangled like a carrot in front of me just like they got mark mark told me later that they told him that Keith the creator of Nexium was the scientist and he'd be meeting like-minded scientists so it was sort of like they would bring people in on the values that were important to them sure though you know if I had met you at the time and I wouldn't have I mean I'm trying to think of how I met you in the and what I knew about you but I probably would have shared you know the like-minded artists and these filmmakers and we're all supporting each other and were to go I mean all these things were true wouldn't have been alive but I would have showed it to you in a way that I think would have appealed to you did you did you think of yourself like a recruiter for yes nexium was it called nexium it was called I'd never nexium wasn't a word that was right that comes later yeah well it said she was originally the umbrella company but the program that I got involved with was I'm under that umbrella called executive success that's right ESP we called it and I was I was brought in through ESP which is an educational tool set a curriculum that's designed to rewire your belief system which if you believe that the people who are doing that wiring have good intentions that could be a good thing to get rid of you're eliminating beliefs you know critical self doubts and sure anything that's and this is like by the way is yeah I mean you're describing a half of you know Tony Robbins that's special I mean it's it's a very accepted and certainly tested model sure you know self development professional of them all of that yeah and therapy yeah it's basically like therapy goal-setting and NLP a lot of Tony Robbins in fact when I watched I'm not your guru yeah which I just watched recently isn't it incredible did you find I remember watching it and thinking of you the entire time all of these I didn't know if there is a real big difference to the people attending that event and probably who are attending the the ESP program in the early days there must have been a lot of parallel a lot of parallels and the fact I I'd never taken Tony Robbins when I was in ESP but people said I was similar Tony Robbins and so I'd learned to kind of like poopoo it but really what Tony Robbins is doing was a well produced version of what we were doing you know in terms of lights and and music and nice binders and like writing 2500 people we had 25 people so we had a small group chairs in a little costume is much more intimate and of course at the time I thought that was way better I mean who knows I do flip for 12 years you're doing this so certainly for for many years you're getting value for us there's something happening you're I mean you've made some great contacts you talked about this you mean some incredible people both from in the industry and outside it yeah when does it start to feel like this is not professional development I'm not becoming a better actor this is something different that's there's a huge journey from when I got into when I left and when it when it changed but I will tell you who day one of my first training there were red flags and I all of those things were preempted by the head trainer who said you're going to feel uncomfortable you're going you're you're going to have what's called the urge to bolt to leave and if you do come speak to a coach because if you never talk about what's coming up for you then you'll you'll leave the room with those issues and you walk it we all came here to work on your issues right the most successful people know your limitations it's called a double bind you don't want to be out not successful it's genius if not terrifying it's totally terrifying so like I want to be successful I want to work on my shoes I'm having that feeling I want to leave in fact recently I ran after writing the book and ran into one of the coaches that trained my first five day and she said I cannot believe how far you went because you hated it at first and I forgot I knew that I was skeptical but I forgot that I actually hated it I was like of course okay yeah please Nancy the trainer was super cheesy everything was kind of eighty like late eighties early 90s you know and it was just like what am I paying for but then I'm gonna pay my money back you know and also Mark Vicente this filmmaker that I really trusted was like I know it's weird first few days are super strange ticket out day three that's when things change so I paid I'll stick it out to day three and that's the nature of how the indoctrination or brainwashing is a more calm how it works is they they have a number of techniques which I now know that they dead to us it's called forced attention so they're forcing me to take notes and stay straight ahead getting bored repeating certain things and there's an indoctrination that takes place over time and then at a certain day three is when things either shift for people or they don't and some people never come back and that's fine but I was hooked is is they're in so in this experience that they've created and they're welcoming you and they're attracting people like you and trying to trying to get you to be an ambassador for them and keep that going are they presenting they know what the best Sarah looks like or is it designed like a lot of you know professional development workshops where you have a vision of the best you and they will give you the tools did did they feel did you ever feel like if you surrender to it the best you will come out of this or did you have to still guide whatever whatever the the the ultimate outcome that you were searching for was some experience it's a really good question no one's asked me that before and it's interesting is it's actually both so they would have us write sheets about like our deal selves like our dream life infinity goal they called it you know what that look like in the best optimal version of your it writer in it so that was important and I was always driving me and I had these goals but there was also this tacit enforcement that for you to succeed within the company and I say that loosely of course we don't call it a call with it was called a comfort of course there was a series of things you needed to do and achieve to be recognized and to go up to the next level it was a martial art system of growth right so it was like visit this is your vet we're doing this for you this is you use the tools to serve you in your life that milestone right but it was also you can't do those things unless you've hit these ones so it was before the company and so for yourself but ultimately if personal development aka nexium wasn't your highest value at a certain point you couldn't grow within the company so I started off that creativity and acting was my highest value sure storytelling why we're here of course so I was an actor and now slowly those things switched and no one told me to switch them but i but i but i replaced it it just like all personal development is more important actually and i and i I can see that and I say this all the time to anyone who would if it comes up in conversation you know how did how did they not know and I go you know what I know Sarah and this story is incredible and you wouldn't know I mean the way what you're describing still up to point is not far off from from a course you'd pay money to go some companies will even you know expense those workshops for their employees yes let alone if you go out and do it on your own professional development there are there are one-on-one coaches who offer that service for a very very high premium or than ours sure yeah so it's still not it's still not you know raising the red flag and then somewhere along the way you said you switch over yeah that is actually something that comes up the most in interviews is people saying but really how did you not know really and I think that is a great question in fact if I wasn't in the situation I hadn't gone through this whole experience I'd probably think the same thing truly I'd probably just be like really you're just is this self preservation because we all think we're smarter than that yes and also and another reason why I wrote the book because I want to explain that cults and groups like this they they don't there's it's not full disclosure it's not transparent it's not transparent what's happening behind the closed doors in fact the personal development and all the good things and yes you're right there's a lot of good things that I that I learned through my whole 12 years there that's on the outside and that's how these groups work there has to be something good to lure you in and what's on the inside is only privileged information for just a small few and you have to go through a number of steps to even know what those things are and a lot of indoctrination to even get to that point yeah do you find somewhere in that 12 12 month journey obviously now what you're chasing or pursuing has changed does it become a goal that you're is it a mindset you want to achieve or is it goal based and or is it also now it's become part of your social circle so you've got a lot of friends and colleagues and people you're invested in like oh look when I was still in yeah what's what's keeping you now over that time were you know all of those things when I was in and and there were red flags along the way that I marked in the book so people could know what they look like in terms of being gaslighted a lot and things always being flipped back to me that were like if at anytime I had a concern if I went to mark or one of the higher ranks cuz you couldn't go down and rank like you don't tell one of your students here if you have a problem with how the something's happening right let me go talk to somebody on staff you would never complain to the right great so you have to go up and so every time I went up I would get flipped back as my limitation right so if I'm saying it's you know it's really unfortunate that we're not being paid as like monthly as we're supposed to be as a salesperson for example right oh you seem entitled at your limitation have you talked to your coach about that Wow and always done in a way that it wasn't actually like I'm even being harsher than it than it would normally be like well you seem like you're really having a reaction Chris have you talked to your coach but your reaction you may want to work on that because you seem like there's something going on for you and you need to work on that before you bring it to anybody else right do you feel like oh yeah and at the same time you go there is some you know one of my producers the other day Dylan and I were looking at something and he he you know he responded to you know what I'm always open to the feedback and I think we and and he had a really great reaction as we were looking at something and I think we trained ourselves to go okay yeah I should take that feedback yeah you know it's maybe human nature to want to receive that criticism and not know that it's something it's masked as something else obviously he didn't sense that yeah well I felt uncomfortable with it but again any discomfort no pain no gain is is in way to an inward inroads to my growth right so anytime I had one of these interactions it wasn't strong enough to pull me out because of all the things you mentioned this was it eventually became my community you know we we had social events we called humanitarian humanities events yeah my family was involved what kept me I think fully going in in terms of getting into inner inner inner circle where yes they did know they knew of course mine was that I never moved to Albany and I never the ultimate yeah the ultimate commit and trust me they were pushing hard yeah and I've read about I think a lot of people who write about Albany and what was going on there yes and I did I went so people back to the other question how did you not know I didn't live in Albany I didn't see the day to day I'd go in take trainings and I got outta there sure I intuitively I was being protected myself because I never liked Albany but I'll tell will tell you that at the time so this would be 2009 four years in this is before I'm totally made the switch to ESP being my house value yeah I was working a lot I did a film festival that got into TIFF where i rana CLE i played a sociopath right and i learned how to play a sociopath from the from the teachings what was that film it's called a gun to the head by blame theory ER gun to the head I'm gonna I'm gonna link to that one after in the oh yeah I have no idea where that is I mean it's a very quick it's a crazy independent film but probably one of the things I'm most proud of as an actor it's incredible that you the parallels to that experience - were you aware of it at the time oh god no I mean wow no I there's did anybody else that knows you anyone else that really knows you and loves you you know you're your husband aside were other people sensing anything they were saying anything uh you know nobody ever did an intervention with me which is something that I that I have asked people like cuz people since the news have come out saying like well I knew I knew it oh really you you know can you believe that no because if you really actually if anyone knew it was that what we know now right there are [ __ ] [ __ ] for not getting me yeah for sure you know so I think what people are really mean and I forgive them is that they sensed that things were weird and culty don't be culty right but they nobody could ever really pinpoint what was going on and if they could it was if they ever came to me and some people would say things like Oh Sarah you know I call like my my agent would joke about going Albany and don't come to shave your head this time but it was a joke you know in a in a in a sense but I think it may be not a joke you know it's like when people kind of like I have some friends and some other groups sure and like I don't know very k/m way or what I mean there's lots of I know lots of people involved in something that they're they're fanatical about yeah you know III know what you mean and I don't know if it always war and say hey you're really into this kind of a conversation never you never know but I have to ask you about and it's in the headlines everywhere the the sex stuff right how do not see that yeah and I I'm I'm you know from from understating the story that doesn't reveal itself on day one of course no talk about sex in the five-day that's right that it comes way later but how much of that is out there is is is really accurate versus what was that experience like for you do you mind if I oh no of course no of course and I think it's a good question because one of the another reason why I wrote the book is because I want to tell the story storytelling properly from my perspective we weren't in a sex called right we were a personal professional development program but the fact is it was a sex cult just not in a vancouver so it was in Albany and when people say sex call like what is that there were people having sex is that a problem no right is it a problem that he has a polyamorous lifestyle which is what we found out at the end that he has in his case a harem literally had a harem I don't even know when I when I started to count and started to do the math and read the transcripts in the trial it was at least somewhere between forty and a hundred people that I knew of it that had sex with him so what makes something a sex call I think actually all cults are sex cults in some way there's some weird sex thing or power thing or money things we linked with sex I think you're right those doors right that's like why are these men bringing in all these women to search what's that what's the motivation behind this gross abuse of power exactly an influence yes more sex and that's really what I what I motivated me is to expose this abuse of power and shine a light on other abuses of power because it's not just cults you know any there I'm sure and I Johnny after writing this book I was even saying to my editor and like the PR person because I was so in it I was like it's even interesting like is this an interesting story because I'm I don't even know it is and not in a oh you know you can't look away when you see a car crash there's a curiosity to it that I really you got to believe me when people hear the story and I anyone I talk to about it over the last few years it is a cautionary tale which I think you've been such a great voice for and it's important you do because I really do think you know and I'm not beating on on the the Tony Robbins stuff I'm really not but I think there that line between fanaticism and cult is very thin yeah it's very very funny we put them in the same category why is walking on hot coals yeah any different than branding a part of your body to show your your your support and your buy-in right and you know when you watch I'm not your guru on Netflix this is what they're doing hundreds and hundreds but you know that he also produced it I did yeah so I Tony Robbins did yes so I wondered also and I happen to know somebody who knows somebody who said that of course he's gonna edit it to make it look great as it was it was a little edgy at points yeah you know there was a couple interventions they call it working he works at people one on one that were pretty they were extreme you know yeah at somebody when you call up 2500 people I'm like oh I mean I'm glad he pushed her too I mean I'm glad that she did it because it was clearly not a good relationship but that's not a winner I mean I just didn't feel good about no and you talked about this also in the book where they come to a point where you know again I want to disclaimer here I'm not I'm not knocking anyone who's gone to a Tony Robbins event but that line is thin and the perfect example and then you look what was happening with the nexium and now somewhere along the journey you have graduated to a certain level and now they want you to do something compromising photo they want a video they want they want the ultimate proof of your commitment and that's actually the weight I was just about to say about people saying like is it relatable is this interesting and people say even though they weren't necessarily branded or or done anything quite as extreme everyone's been in a position where their boss is asking them to do somebody or something somebody higher in position is asking them to do something they don't want to do yeah and they're like oh I don't feel good about that how do i how do I stay in this company or continue on in my career and do this thing right so that's that's like something that people can relate to right it's not they're not in a cult but they're like you know don't my compromising my own ethics if I do XYZ right I didn't interrupted you of what we used no no no you just answered it that was that was what I was wondering it and I think you just nailed it did did you find though what was that moment for you that but that revelatory that reveal Ettore thing you have to do to prove your ultimate commitment right what was that thing that they wanted you to do well that was the branding and I think that that is right is the branding and that that was the first there were stories of videos and photos from other people or things they had to say everything leading into that yeah everything leading up to that is it's an emotional hospital it's emotional blackmail and actually your blackmail because that's yeah they've been convicted of blackmail sex trafficking forced labor conspiracy conspiracy to commit all these things anyway I the the actual branding itself I don't know you're not asking me is something that I've had to now doing over 50 interviews about it I've learned that I can't talk about that night and just because it reach remote eise's me and it triggers me and like it's just PTSD is a thing that I'll probably always be I think you've done a good job in the book weather thank you I think people will get as much as they need on that yeah I go into great detail might it's all there they want to know how it happened and also the steps leading up to it which was really important for me for my own so not just self-preservation but just preservation of my sanity to know and then for me to understand how did I get to that point how did I lay down on a table and say these words and let this happen and I say let it happen I was coerced I was coerced I was lied to I was betrayed all of those things people don't get it if they say oh whatever these women are branding each other you know like there's a judgement that again I probably would have if I didn't know the story and I want to explain how somebody goes from being a attending of personal development workshop to hat letting that happen and of course if someone had said hey do you want to get this this guy's initials torched into your pelvic pelvic area with no anesthetic of course I would have said right right yeah it happens slowly over time let me throw an idea to you and and and you want me back if I'm if I'm reaching too far into it but I wonder are there there is a there's an extraordinary extraordinary high number of actors in this organization a lot and there's a there's an obvious answer to that actors no actors and that's that's not anything unusual I wonder our actors are artists hardwired are they even you know with professional training literally are they susceptible to direction you know you've been on set hundreds of times you work with directors all kinds of directors and there's a moment I think sometimes and and you probably agree where you you surrender to that direction you have to trust in that direction even if you don't see the vision the director has won and in many ways it's like the military you're taking orders and you're gonna follow yes is is some of that at play there I don't mean to say that all actors will acting in it itself is called yeah but rather the susceptibility to that and where that sometimes you might not even realize it because you're Trent you're trying to take direction is that a is that a fair assessment I think that could be I've never thought about that and I now you're saying it I think that's definitely an element I think another big chunk of it is that a lot of artists stereotypically even if they're the most talented at their craft don't necessarily have their [ __ ] together in terms of a bishop sense yes a lot of the people I was working with was helping them get an agent and setting goals around making their first voice demo which is one of the things I did when I first got in and they kind of used me as the poster child within nexium - and by the way we didn't use the word of recruit which is what it was but in a roll in roll and rolling was poza they wanted to create an enrolling culture enrolling being synonymous with building humanity okay so the more you enrolled the more you build Humanity builds I mean so that's how I saw it at the time but I was always working with people based on what I had done and one of the things I did when I first got in as I did the goals program where I after seven years of keeping it on my to-do list was able to write produce and distribute my voice demo reel this back when we had CDs before mp3s to every studio in Vancouver and that was something I did because of my goals lab and by the way I mean that's good I mean that's important work to do when you're out there promoting yourself I mean I see a lot of things in there that oh yeah you should do things like yes yes that's not bad I would use you as a poster child for you know own your success in that yeah and I could probably teach a great workshop yeah you could and I that's really what I love doing the most and I think Wyatt it grew in Vancouver as people would come in and like oh I'm this and that but I struggle here I'm like oh I can help you with that all you need is X Y Z and sometimes it was really really just a physical thing all you need is an agent and other times people just had emotional stuff to work through which is another big gap I think for actors is that they are these emotional vessels and they love to tell stories and in some times they may have a block like I had a block with when I was going to Theatre School in anger I couldn't and still still you couldn't pull it out in a performance yeah yeah and maybe with a coach but like on the day or like in an auditions and what and why do you think that was is that does every actor have a block or that was just when you worked that was something identified with and I think that most actors I think most people have blocks with something people have issues around very common things like conflict you know they don't like conflict they don't like for me I hadn't I didn't leave my agent for way too long because I didn't want to break up with her I mean sure for that cut feels sticky so I ask easier to just get along yeah so those one of the things that worked on my first training and then I worked on my confidence level so a lot of people are good at or a lot of actors are good at acting but they're not good at auditioning again for me I'd get really nervous I would literally go into fight or flight in auditions so that was something else I worked on yeah and so the point where to go in and I'd be grounded and calm and I would just like you know all the things you're supposed to do is was to play and listen and yeah you know connect but I couldn't do that because I was literally like out-of-body so and you've you've now so jumping ahead a little bit let's say you get your you're out and you're back and you've always been working throughout it and I know you were you were worried in the height of it a couple years ago what kind of an impact this would have on your career and of course you're still getting some really cool parts and I love that you did salvations I said about a year ago I love that show I wish it was still running people I do too I really wish it was still running and even though I died at the end of season two I people have come back from the dead that show so I was like maybe I can oh maybe there's a way if it's a chat it was a really cool part and it was a really cool show and did you find that the experience of all of this like does this give you now a better palette of emotions to draw from oh absolutely like I mean that sure as hell musta helped with the anger block oh say oh yeah I mean I can I can pull out anger and no problem now are you a better actor because of this experience am i putting words in oh I think I think I am a better actor also because I've been through real adversity and I have it'll have had a lot of challenges I mean how many 40 year old mother actors have spent time with the FBI I mean my life is my life is really crazy I've always wanted to write a book what was I gonna write a book about you know oh wow nothing now I have a story to write a book it's not why I wrote the book but it's made my life more interesting I think I'm a better person overall and even though I wish you know I wish I just taken a five day or maybe a 16 day taking those tools and I'm gonna dodge right you know and of course I wish I'd ever been branded at the same time I love my life I mean look at look what I get to do this is crazy it is it is it is crazy and I love your perspective on it and I love the the lens that you've been communicating to everyone and talking about it through because you make it really accessible for people to ask questions and try to understand it and I think a lot of people when they get to know you Sarah they see themselves in you and how they would probably respond to that you you you you don't mind being open about after the pregnancy you or you were postpartum mm-hmm that's that's tough lots of moms are going through that that's a really tricky thing what kind of an impact has that had on the creative work you're trying to do right now the book tour aside yeah what's that like I mean how are you are you coping with that day-to-day I honestly I think it's crazy to try to write a book with a newborn but it was just sort of having things lined up and I went with it and at the same time it's it is easier because they're portable and you don't do have to do much with them except feed them and you're understanding and also I had a co-writer so I didn't I didn't write the book by myself I wrote a book with a national writer and helped pull it out of you and organized it yeah that's great and lay it out and it was a really like a back-and-forth process of her writing stuff me making it more accurate sending it back her making it more literary me writing stuff her fixing it like back just back and forth I mean I think it should and I know people have probably it should be it it should be a movie I'm sure and I mean it in the non sensational way but that it is just how it all happens you go this is this is one of the most it's like a shark that just leaps out and you do not see it coming and you are one of the smartest brightest most creative people I know and this could have happened to to anyone because we don't have cult awareness seminars in school no you know this to your point it's I think it's popular now as we are really starting to try to wrap our head around Scientology and what are some of the the scandals or controversies with that and other other fanatical cult type groups but prior to that the things that we are often leery of is at best as you know don't be conned don't be fooled you know watch out for someone who wants to you know run away with your money they don't teach you anywhere that I can think of don't let someone run away with your life don't let someone run away with your sense of self or identity of who you are and what you stand for I mean this was over that time and you are not the only person in this there are hundreds of people in this organization thousands do you keep in touch with any of them how is it just like this you guys talk to have a Facebook group like what is that life what's not like now we actually have a Facebook group that I'm that I put together when we were in the group and then I kicked off everybody that was remained loyal to the to the leadership there's still some that do there are still some that are loyal to Keith actually here in Vancouver there's about five that that I know of that are that think I'm crazy and that Keith is maybe not conventional but not guilty of the crimes but I have a Facebook group I communicate with I'd say the people that I'm closest to were the people that I was friends with prior and then that we you know went through this ordeal together and and they were the ones are also really supported me getting out so we're still tight people that I met in the program it's there's only a handful that I'm still really close with because I'll tell you a ranking system really messes up a friendship you know people see each other like in in levels of worth in that way and I think a lot of people unfortunately kept their distance from me when I went public because who wants to be associated with a sex cult right so I understand that and I really love that you are so honest about well you know I've full transparency here like part of part of me kind of fixing the fact that I was such a big recruiter and it brought so many people in and I was I've ouch for this douche bag back in Albany for so long is I have to come out the other side and and lay it all out there you know that's part up for me my healing yeah you know I have to do that what so what does the next year look like for you your ear of course you you've got your your newborn mm-hmm you're doing mom's stuff you're trying to manage that are you gonna go aggressively on the book tour I've kind of the book tour is aggressively over and the aggressive stuff yeah being in Toronto bring New York and book signing and doing the launch that's done like the big the big show is like dr. oz and stuff which was amazing is that's that's all done but stuff like this like intimate podcast interviews where I don't have to travel I really don't want to travel anymore especially with two kids too much you've got your miles logged yes I'm just want to stay put and kind of be normal and do do normal family stuff I did two weeks ago have my brand removed from my body good for you yes so that was a very exciting and also scary semi traumatic surgery because sure sensitive area and I've also I feel better do you feel different yes I feel very different I feel like just energetically to have those initials even that was very faint yeah and it healed very well because I was obsessive of putting different oils on like every day to try to get rid of it right I could still see it and I could see it in the mirror I could see the kr in the mirror every time I said I looked in the mirror and that's got to have an enormous impact yes how you're seeing yourself yes that's congratulate thank you I'm really actually the day a couple days after I got it off I had told my agent I wasn't ready to act again I've never stopped doing voiceover so voice-over has been consistent for me and you've done some really cool voices yes and I did voices that's a big part of my life and I'm so grateful to my little pony my little pony transformers yeah lots of different shows that my my five-year-old is likes to brag about at school my mom is a voice of Rainbow Dash's mom that's amazing oh my little guy loves that one of my niece's love it that's a windy whistles it's a big deal in the fiber in that genre and the brony is of course you did max steel did max steel yeah played his girlfriend reasoning the voice-over acting is is really there's a part of it we had someone in recently talking about that do you find that easier or more difficult generally for me easier cuz I don't have memorize lines that's the hardest part about acting with the kids is mom brain like mom Brian is legitimately real I died just to finish that I did call my agent said okay I'm ready and that was I think having that surgery done is like I was ready to do something different and I went back had a great audition I had a callback my first time I was like yeah I'm back at it and then in the callback I could just couldn't get the light so and I'm really good at memorizing lines like that's a skill that I've built for sure and they just weren't there and that's yeah so what happens when you're I think part of breastfeeding and like literally your life force being sucked out of you that you can't I'll have to believe you on that convinced you're correct no it's proven to be a thing you end the book and you say to all the people who believed me and trusted me both going in and going out to the people who haven't woken up yet who will read this one day I hope we'll be friends again to all the people who felt that I cut you out in a way that wasn't compassionate forgive me you apologized I have always had good intentions and I hope you will know my true heart it's a it's a really beautiful ending to the book what is the ending to this story for Sarah you know what do you want to do I guess it's also what's next the new beginning or what's the ultimate what's next after this do you feel that it's done yet is that did the book help you close it or is this always going to be a part of your your crusade to help you know protect and warn people and be a beacon or a an inspiration or are you hoping one day to move to the whatever might be after this you know I don't know yet I really see that I'm at a crossroads there and I also just decided that I don't need to decide yet and I'm still and I'm in a healing I'm in a healing process especially with like physically healing and just ready to just yeah II love myself you're not you're not sure you take them I'm not sure yet and right now healing at least to the end of this year as what I've given myself till 2020 and I could see myself having this be a big part of my life possibly becoming a psychotherapist actually being able to help people through legitimate therapeutic processes about number of people have contacted me about groups that they're in and may be working to expose those groups where there's massive and egregious abuses of power happening just as bad as my group I think I'll always want to talk about it I think but it's also you know like my son just started a new school and you know I don't want to be the crazy call from him yeah and you're not no I you got to remember that you've got a you know don't let anybody especially you yeah that's not the person that I see and I don't think a single one of our audience will see that I think you've been I think you've gone to war if you will I feel and the same way we don't necessarily see a soldier like a killer we see that they have gone through something extraordinary and I think most people would see the the best in you as a result of how you've clearly come out of it and what you've done I hope you will come back and as you go through this journey and in particular anything you're doing creativity-wise we would love to know I'd love to talk about it I think you're an incredible actress we love this stuff you're doing this is a just a masterpiece of a story and I really want everyone to take the time to read this especially over the holidays if you sometime because you you you can't get it all from the headlines no you've got it and you lived it and I think it's just incredible when you come back another time and absolutely and I will say about the book of people to I'm time to read which I personally don't being a mom it's not audible and I great narrated it was really cool because that was on my to-do list was to to get into narration and it's your voice oh that's so great I've heard not to put my own tires but I heard it's a good narration so why Fred you've got a bit of background in voice I do yeah that must be the hardest part is playing your voice well they said do you want to sure you don't want to audition for it I'm like no I want to do bionaire a [ __ ] I want to be my voice good for you sir oh yeah please please listen and have me back and love to talk about other things and whatever you want I'll come and teach a workshop to your voiceover actors that would be amazing I hope you'll do that the book is called scarred the true story of how I escaped nexium the cult that bound my life it's by Sarah Edmondson I love that you came in to talk about it today come another time thank you so much for being here thank you for having me

Channel: VFS Originals

Views: 61,117

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Id: w2ktUb8zEjU

Length: 45min 20sec (2720 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 11 2020