Sara Walker: The Origin of Life on Earth and Alien Worlds | Lex Fridman Podcast #198
Video Statistics and Information
Channel: Lex Fridman
Views: 295,681
Rating: 4.8832893 out of 5
Keywords: agi, ai, ai podcast, artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence podcast, lex ai, lex fridman, lex jre, lex mit, lex podcast, mit ai, sara walker
Id: -tDQ74I3Ovs
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Length: 119min 28sec (7168 seconds)
Published: Fri Jul 09 2021
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I love this woman. Pure genius.
During the intro, Lex mentioned that he’s been getting feedback to slow down the release of new shows.
Luckily he said he actually plans on upping the tempo of new interviews, but I don’t understand that kind of feedback. I mean, you can always just listen to fewer of them, right?
10/10
This is what I listen to the podcast for.
Really insightful podcast.
Lex did a great job with the questioning on a topic that required some pretty deep thinking.
Sara’s energy and enthusiasm was infectious. And kudos to her for the lucidity, given how difficult to describe the content must be (as she admitted)
I found the tempo of her voice so fast I had to slow it down to listen to what she was saying....but then Lex sounded like he was having a stroke 😂
I am a little drunk and overall, mostly stupid, but as a rational human being who has just listened to Sara Walker and Lex talk about life for two hours, I have a few thoughts about one of the more fascinating aspects of that talk (they all were awesome, lets be honest); the dark biosphere and why our formulation of entropy may be too anthropomorphic.
Disclaimer: I think I developed a crush with Sara’s mind after this episode. If this beautiful brain doesn’t get a Nobel prize in the future, then to hell with academia.
There are two things Sara mentioned that I want to bring up and derive the rest of this post on; the concept of a dark biosphere and the fact that information is fundamental. The fact that information is the most fundamental thing in our universe is fairly obvious; with a binary operator we are able to get any amount of complexity imaginable. Why not an operator less than two possible states? Well… it does exist, it is the “nothingness” that surrounds our Hubble volume; or multiverse of Hubble volumes, if you choose your epistemic life that way. Not remarkably interesting though, is it?! Given enough time we even get a certain process to turn a binary operator into something that uses base four instead of two; of course, bits are still the subsystem upon which DNA relies upon. It is a neat feature that supersystems can’t exist without subsystems and vice versa.
Life and Information
I will make a very vague definition of life, through the lens of which we can view the following discussion. Life appears to be an agent, or amalgamation of agents, which have a utility function that has a use for a particular arrangement of bits relative to that agent’s goal/s. Everything can be represented in bits, EVERYTHING. Here is the thing though; at a scale of similar agents, the utility function needs a relative translator which is why we have ASCII. It is a universal standard for translating the alphabet into binary. If you don’t speak any human languages though, the bit code that translates “Humans need to be more humble” into binary makes no sense. It may as well translate to glib jobber klamda. What this hints at is that you can take a bit string that is out there in the universe and have vastly different meanings to different agents with different utility functions. To make this more concrete, let us say there is a bit string 01011110001010001111010100 where 1010100 is the bit representation of an apple that is instantiated in the universe. To a human being this bit string has meaning in the sense that I can eat it, which makes it part of my utility function (well, one of them). To a weird gaseous alien that does not need glucose however, that string is gibberish, and the apple does not exist from its xenopomorphic (don’t know if this is a word; anthropomorphic but for aliens) point of view. To this gas creature, the 111100 may be a vital instantiation for it, but be random noise for us (kinda like this ominous substance that 95% of the universe is made of).
Bit-String Intersections
If we take this one step further, we begin to see that the universe is REALLY efficient at getting the most exploration out of a single bit string. Smells like fractality, but that’s a story for another drunk rambling. To make this easier we are going to play physicist and create a nice box with only variables we like and ignore the ones we do not. We assume that only the Earth exists, nothing else; this means the universe’s bit string is just what is going on here. Through the stochastic process we call Natural Selection (henceforth NS) a little utility function finds use for a tiny part of this long bit string. Out of this bit string we get replicators, but not with 100% fidelity which means we get a second replicator that finds use for a slightly different part of the bit string; however, it still shares interest in the bit string from which it sprang. Maybe not all, but some. A billion years later and we are here. Lots of species that each found different uses for different parts of the universal bit string. This is the reason why things from a common ancestor can sense and see each other; they have an overlap in interest relative to the bit string they interact with. As NS selects for more and more traits, we get a larger spectrum of the bit string being utilized and competition increases for similar portions of the same section of this universal bit string. We may think of the intersection as resources needed by competing agents (species).
Dark Biosphere
What does this have to do with the dark biosphere and how can we define it? Strap in ‘cause we are about to speculate. NS is the process that we know of that has a particular attachment to a section of a bitstring and it became really good at occupying it for itself. All of its products interact with each other in the biosphere because they share a common origin point on this bit string. Let us assume now that NS has siblings which occupy a distant part of the bit string; one which has no overlap with that of NS descendants. This would mean that the various agents, which are descendants of this sibling process, share zero bit-string overlap. If that is the case, then nothing descending from NS would know these species exist as there is zero interaction or competition. This could be how Sara’s multiple geneses’ of life events occurred without us knowing. As time increases and the species of each NS like process increases in complexity, we may begin to find more and more life forms on this planet and beyond. Therefore we discover more and more species. When humans had zero utility for parts of the bit string at the Mariana’s Trench, we had no clue about the species of life living down there; once we had utility for that section of the string, we discovered new species of animals. This works for the universe as well. Our sphere moves outward as we occupy and aim to uncover larger parts of the bit string. That is why Greeks had no idea about black holes or neutron stars; there was no connection to the section of the string describing them vs what they knew or cared about. This also explains why we may only now see these TicTac aliens and predicts that we will see more aliens in the universe as we explore more of the bit string and intersect with another agent’s utility function.
she had creative ways of looking at things. for there to be a kind of physics to myself is a cool idea. i'm not convinced by some of not having "free will" since thoughts that I have afford me choices. I can see my brain going through a learned suggestion process on what happens to be relevant for me wherein it ask "how about this?" and then "okay then what about this?" and it seems that the brain structures might be shaped as such, though the brain is much more complicated than my simple example. perhaps a better word than free will would be "free choice". obviously the brain makes thinking efficient and the things that fire together are strengthened because they proved useful in the past. so I guess bret weinstein's ideas of consciousness as uncompiled code also comes into play. I think it takes the brain more effort to make choices, it's more efficient to go by what is already ingrained into us.
one of the best episodes i've heard, incredibly interesting.
Such a fun and interesting podcast.