Sandy Munro Reveals Model 3 Insights | In Depth

hey everybody I'm Zach and I'm Jesse and you're watching in depth on now you know [Music] sponsored by our great friends over at the solar-powered Hotel in Schaumburg Illinois the Fairfield Inn and Suites by Marriott and of course our amazing wonderful patreon patrons okay so a lot of people been talking about this video that came out a few days ago this was a live conversation between sandy Munro who runs Munro and associates their company that tear down cars and help tell other car manufacturers like what the other car manufacturers are doing Gary vassal ash who is the automotive design and production person John McElroy who works for auto line TV and David Welch from Bloomberg now this was recorded on January 3rd and it's almost two hours long so I mean a lot of people wanted us to cover it we watched it all took notes on it all so that you don't but there's lots of good stuff in here and I gotta say I think you know should watch it pop it onto two times speed you'll get that puppy done in about an hour sandy Munro if you remember many months ago when he first tore down the model 3 he had just lots of negative things to say about the car and and I think here's why before you tear down the car you have to look at the body gaps and you know you look at the body first all of his negative things were about the body of the car he was looking at a very early production model 300 good point kind of dumb for him to do that because most car companies when you get that car it ain't changing like they're not gonna change apart for an entire year if then with Tesla I gotta say honestly they change parts all the time if they come across something needs to be fixed from that moment on all the new cars have that fixed right when we got our model 3 in November of 2017 one of the first 1000 cars it had a little bit of a problem with in cold weather with the charging port and so we brought in as a Tesla a bunch of other people in cold weather had it too they figured it out they changed it so those of you buying the car now you don't have the same direct my charging port does not have that kind of persona means sandy was looking at a car with that problem and basing all of his reports on certain problems that have been fixed one of the first things that that sandy talked about was that the body in white explained what a body white is it's just the the the structure of the car basic right so he is claiming that the body in white is built too heavy is over built that that Elon could save money about two or three hundred dollars he said by making it lighter not using aluminum and steel he thinks that's dumb you should just do it all out of steel one of the other guys in the show said like okay but right it has really good safety um and he was like yeah Sherman tank is safe kind of missing the point right so basically he said that he actually talked to Elon about this and that he said you know why did you over design this this body it's causing you so many manufacturing problems and then Elon said to him oh yeah we fired that guy and they sat there for a minute basically talking about who is this guy we we think that it's the VP of engineering Doug fields who came from Segway and has since left and gone to Apple and so I'm not putting anything negative on Doug fields if he's the one who you know design this car because I think it's a wonderfully designed car but the big point here is that sandy said that if you take the battery off the body and white and you do all of your smash testing to it it'll come out exactly the same as if you put the battery on it so basically you're not taking advantage of the battery as a structural part of the car now as a as a recent model three buyer I love this I was like cool the the battery could fall out of the bottom of the car and then I could get into a horrible accident and it would still be the same he's comparing it to a Sherman tank so almost like missing the point it's like maybe he did maybe he did over-engineer it but nothing to be too upset about if the whole cost is maybe two or three hundred dollars let's get to this point so he pulls out this little looks like the size of a lighter even smaller little magnet and he says that he found you know if they when they tore apart the motor they found these magnets and they were like why do these magnets have little lines on them and they put it into a vise and they smacked at it with a hammer because that's what you do to figure how things work and one oven exploded right um why did it explode so it's it's not just one magnet it's four magnets all kind of glued together so the guys after the magnet exploded these said that they were all kind of scratch their heads and like they had never seen this before they had to do some digging but basically it's a Halbach array using the haulback effect a haulback array is an arrangement of permanent magnets that creates a stronger field on one side while reducing the field on the other side to near zero you know it's this tiny little thing in in the motor but what that has done is it has made Tesla Motors better than all of their competitors in terms of power it has more horsepower it's lighter mm-hmm and it's cheaper this creates more power basically the square root of two faster he said that a lot of people over the years have talked about doing this but that no one could basically they're like that's too much work so here's the first engineering principles of Tesla they sat around in a room one day and they went hey how about if we use the haulback effect to help us and they were like sounds good let's do it yeah and when you say cheaper they compared it to the Chevy Volt motor and the BMW i3 motor and basically the model 3 motor is seven hundred and fifty four dollars to make whereas those two other motors are about eight hundred and forty dollars more Tomatoes that's a huge amount more that's more than ten percent more right and they're lighter heavier and they're crappier and don't forget this is coming from sandy monroe who be started a few months ago by saying that tesla just doesn't know what they're doing now that he's actually start to analyze his own data he's realizing more and more as he digs in deeper that it's incredible so he talked about GM and how when they wanted to make an electric car they said well let's take something we already got let's take the spark and let's just take the bottom out of it and have LG come up with the power train and slap that puppy on the bottom right that's GM's approach to how they did it right and he said that it was smart and it in a way it kind of was you're taking all the strengths of GM and just hobbling that all together along with LG to come up with a car that that works now David well choose from Bloomberg he said that when he started writing negative things about Tesla he was getting just tons of people writing back to him and saying what are you talking about you know and that there are all these conspiracy theories he said floating around that he was like working for the shorts and he explained how could I be working for the shorts since he like half of Bloomberg's readers are probably protesting and half our negative on Tesla so I would stand nothing to gain by writing negatively about Tesla like he's like that's not that's that argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny right in my opinion I'm not saying that you know I'm not gonna confirm or deny the conspiracy theories but I mean the shorts do have a lot more to gain in a very short period of time for articles that are negative because you write a negative article the stock goes down shorts profit a bunch of money here's the thing just watching him I think I know the answer I don't think there's any conspiracy theory with this guy I think that he basically a doesn't really know what he's talking about and be all of his sources are old school sources so he basically keeps hearing the same thought bubble over and over again and so he thinks he's living in reality when in fact he's not right he says the number one problem at Tesla is corporate governance and the number two problem is manufacturing there may be problems and maybe corporate governance you think is one of them but I want to point something out his argument is that there's too many yes-men on the corporate board of Tesla you know his brother Kimble and other people who have risen up through the ranks through the years with Elon who are friends of his if that's true then every company out there every company that has a board is pretty much the same because what has been learned by people like Steve Jobs he learned that if you don't have friends on your board what do they do to you they kick you out they kick you out the moment there's a problem so what has happened most CEOs don't want to work for a company where everyone on the board hates them and they generally don't get hired by a board that hates them you generally want to have a bunch of people on your board that believe in you huell's who ride out the hard times right if this were true then let's just look at Ford which is another American car company Ford was full of Ford's grandchildren right I mean who then became president of the company right if that's not a corporate governance problem than what is and then his second problem with Tesla is manufacturing if Tesla was having such a manufacturing problem then that would mean that no one would want to buy their cars because of quality issues yet they don't advertise so the only way you'd want to buy a Tesla is either you sit in one at a showroom and you take it for test drive or your buddy down the street has one and you you've talked to him and it's wonderful like if there were so many manufacturing problems it would just be full of recalls and quality control issues in Tesla it can return your model three three days after you buy right up to three days which means that if you take it home and you're this aren't I like oh my goodness that's a glaring thing you can you cannot turn it many people all these analysts wanted to know about Sandy's data because they wanted to know how profitable the model 3 is what is the margin on this car he said it should be able to do over 30 percent gross profit and he's right I mean that's what Tesla's been announcing and he said even the base model should be 18 percent gross margin which if you compare that to many other cars is a fantastic margin mhm my big question is sandy knows all the parts that went into the car how does he know the price of the battery price of the battery is a constantly moving target it's it's like you know it used to be more expensive and then they keep making it cheaper and cheaper because they keep making it faster and better well and here's the thing Tesla doesn't buy the battery from a third party they make the battery so and Sandy's never been in that factory so how does he know what Tesla today is paying for that battery and what tomorrow they're paying for that battery going down every day sandy brought up another great point he said the model 3 in China Elon is not going to make the same mistakes that he made making the model 3 this time in China good point of course everything he's learned up to this point will be put into China exactly and we've we've brought this point up before yeah you just you copy the line as it is you know take your most successful line at Fremont and you just copy a part for part over to China and sandy said Elon will clobber everyone in China Munroe said that he's working on a China margin he said that it's easily 20 percent right and I think he means on the base model right which is huge cause I mean obviously labor costs and China are a lot lower than they are in Fremont California Lee being able to grab a huge margin in China is going to be huge we are not wrapping our head around China at the moment because they're so excited about what's going on in the US and soon in Europe China is dwarfing us mm-hmm and they are so excited because Tesla is a brand that is just sought after in China and so when they start rolling out cars there with no tariffs on them watch out yeah sandy started talking about the fact you went back to the fact that the body in white is just over built and if they had used Optus tried software to clean it up that that would be doing a lot better I can't want to go back to the fact that there's really nothing wrong with the design its it's SuperDuper safe and this is a point they'd over design right I mean it's it's getting I think they were like once you get to five star safety rating just stop Americans don't need to be safer right and it's like no make it safer it's do you not remember because I think we don't mention enough the model 3 is the safest car on the road it's true now sandy talked about the BMW i3 which was a what he called a very well engineered car but he brought up a really interesting point which is that BMW spent a lot of time and money to engineer this car to be very light and fantastic and then what do they do they sold off all of their carbon fibre facilities and I mean like let's talk about the i3 for a minute they kind of brought this up as like the oh the i3 that was a really nicely engineered car they almost ignored completely what the i3 is which is this like low range tiny right it's SuperDuper light box right also I've been hearing from post I three owners that they've gotten in very minor accidents and small bits of the carbon-fiber frame chip off which totals the car David pointed out kind of surprisingly almost like he opened up his phone and saw this he's like you know the model 3 is outselling the Audi yeah dude it's outselling every luxury car right like it's created it's like it's its own new amazing category where it's a luxury car and it's not the Dreamtime and in sandy brought up some good points here he said that a lot of model 3 owners are first-time new car buyers jesse is living proof of this he's never bought a new car before his model 3 and in zach is also living proof of this he never bought a new car before his model ex and I think that this is a really really interesting point both these cars were out of our normal price range like I was not thinking of buying a Model X and you were not thinking about buying and something is expensive we're not outliers here in terms of especially the model 3 there are a lot of people we talk about hundreds of people who are trading in Noboru old Subarus it's not like oh I bought it two years ago and now my lease is up and I'm buying a new one like these are people who buy use cars and you know have to run them into the ground because that's kind of the most economic way for them to do stuff and sandy kind of fought his own point remember he talked about the gap the body gap being a problem he said these people do not care about body gaps right and it's absolutely true because let's face it unless it affects door closures and in fitment and you know unless that you can hear the wind whistling no one cares about body gaps except for the people who really care about body gaps exactly we'll walk up to your car with like a credit card and be like oh the body gaps are like totally perfect because you're like I don't care if you've gone from an eight year old Subaru and you get into model three it is the quietest most awesome thing you've ever felt and nothing he pointed out there was a slight braking distance problem early on in the model three we did a video on it and how do they fix it and over-the-air update have you heard anything about it since then no no that was brought up by Consumer Reports elan fix-it over-the-air done let's talk about the super bottle mmm-hmm I didn't know what the holds out this thing let's get a picture of it cuz I mean like yeah it looks like the alien tech so is this like like a drink bottle what is this no so this does the cooling for the entire car what do you mean so it does battery cabin AC motor cooling it does cooling for the entire car Detroit has been talking about this for years they would love to be able to have one central pump and tank to do this and they can't why because they are so entrenched you know you have people who are in the motor department people are in the in the exhaust and the cooling departments and they they can't work together not because they're in different departments and they don't want to give up anything right and so he said basically different fiefdoms arguing and bickering has kept them all of basically GM Ford Chrysler from ever doing this and he looked at it and marvelled out of his eyes just glows like a kid at Christmas who's looking at this like this is a feat of Engineering and I and I want to point out that this comes from engineers of different backgrounds they have them all work together design a bottle together and they're so proud of it right they put super bottle down the side of it and then they have a picture of a of a bottle bottles are super here right like that shows first of all that they had fun at least at some point when like well what are we gonna name this thing we spent so much time designing right and they call it super bottle they put it in the the actual thing just because they're so damn proud of it right I'll tell you I work with engineers when they're proud of something they want to put all sorts of stuff all over it cuz it's fun right when I try and think of what GM and Ford are like I think of dunder-mifflin the paper company in the office where it's like you watch the show week after week and you're like oh my god they can't do anything right sandy was saying basically the exact same thing he's saying like you know there's a difference between people and talent hubris Tesla engineers - like the Navy SEALs and then he compares GM to like the Regular Army now that I don't that's what he said so like if you're in the army and you're mad at me that don't be mad at me be mad at him I think that most people can agree that the Navy SEALs are better trained than the Regular Army and when he said that when he's looking for people you know he can fight he can get people down to interview with him but that he's not impressed with them no he said that GM doesn't have the internal expertise Tesla does can we talk about the supplier model yeah so sandy Monroe talked about the fact that most car companies they sub out as many parts as possible they're basically just a big company that buys other parts and puts them together the Tesla doesn't really do that kind of like Toyota doesn't do that Toyota has part suppliers but they own 90% of them so it's this vertical integration Tesla is the same way I mean Tesla makes for instance they talked about Tesla making the motors and all of a sudden the Bloomberg guys like wait they make their own motors great like wow you didn't know that right you're an analyst yeah how about you know that so there's no secondary markup for many of Tesla's parts because they are the one making them so let's just talk about a secondary markup let's say I was a hammer manufacturer okay and I needed to buy the hammer handles from you right you need to make a profit on your hammer handles so you you make the hammer handles they have a certain cost to use say it's a dollar then when you sell to me you have to sell it for markup so that you make money right busting buck-20 all right so now I have to buy it from you for a buck 20 and then I put on my $5 hammer head and then I have you know so now it's six dollars and 20 cents so now I have to mark it up even further for me to make a profit which means that in the end it ends up costing you know that 20% more for that component right but I mean if I also have to buy the head of the hammer and and I get a 20% markup then my whole product is now 20% more and if I as the handle maker have any cost in like if I have to pay more for my wood or my labor I have to pass that on to Jessie right whereas Tesla if they're vertically integrated if all their stuff is made in-house then they keep their costs very low there's not a 20% markup 20% markup 20% market and that's just the markups and another point that sandy brought up which I wasn't thinking about because I'm not in supply chain is that you know you have to send your engineers to your supplier to make sure that it's up to spec right before you can accept it and cost which you know probably doesn't really make it to the books because you know there's there is the markup but you also have to send guys out there they have to make sure that it works then then you have to do quoting and all of that stuff sandy also brought up that a lot of the big auto makers bring in consultants to answer questions and he said that he's met these consultants and he thinks they don't understand the auto industry so that's interesting right then David Welch from Bloomberg I really think he doesn't get it he kept talking about things like how big autos dealer network is going to help them and I'm like dude that's what's killing them right like that no one talked about the fact that big auto right now has to convert everything from ice engines to electric power trains and they basically have to chew their leg off to do that they have to get rid of these divisions that are costing them running and there's absolutely no way that the dealer network is going to be a benefit to conventional auto manufacturers for selling electric cars we've gone to dealerships in areas where people buy electric cars and trying to buy an electric car off of them is hard to do right they don't want to sell you it is because they make no money they have to sell it for certain price and then you buy the car I bought my Leaf two and a half years ago no I have never been back I've never had it serviced once I got the tires replaced that's about it right that is the reason why the dealer network is a hindrance it is not a help no then st. you talked about the fact that Chrysler is just one of these companies they only care about winning awards like their whole big thing is they want to win five star safety awards and awards and awards because that's how they market their cars to their people and he said that the tesla sells so well because of Elon now I got a kind of stop in there I can't imagine that too many of you would go out and buy a Tesla if you loved elan but the cars suck same thing with like the iPhone you can love Steve Jobs all you want but if the iPhone sucked you wouldn't buy it which I don't if the model three where the leaf and there was also a leaf on the market I think that sales would be pretty split I mean I think that a lot of people become disappointed in Tesla if if the model threes offering was basically a lower mileage non cooled battery car yes Elon is the reason that the model 3 is as amazing as it is I think David brought it up earlier in the in the talk talking about the mission of Tesla and how that creates basically no other option for you he said you know the the people want to buy an electric car because if you aren't buying an electric car you're like a part of the problem right to do about climate change they never brought this back up now because they are all car guys right the funny thing here is though that he was completely right about it once people realize that electric is better for the planet and better they don't go back no and I think that this is like a point that they completely missed well and let's talk about how Monroe got exposed to Tesla he started by throwing rocks at the Model 3 that's his quote okay that basically went toward the parked car part he was like what the heck is this then what happened they were driving the second one that they got and and he hadn't driven one yet right and so his friend was driving and he was having a marvelous time they drove and Monroe dropped him off and then sandy took it to the parking lot and just drove it around a key thing here that happened and he was so impressed by how it handled yeah he said a handle like a dream he was like driving on Rails it's a Sherman tank that drives like it's on Rails sign me up those two things put together I was just like yes I know it's great do you see what happened here in Monroe's own shop two of his employees he said bought Tesla's that's kind of like if you work in an apple store and you went and bought Android something happened to all the people who touch this car they touched the car and they went oh we get it I think especially driving the car I think that that is the biggest thing that convinces people and that's just one I want to point out is that very few people have driven in a Tesla ok it yes more and more people are getting to but when you're on the internet when you're on YouTube and Facebook and all these people are crapping on it those are people for the most part who've never even come in contact with the test right so if one of the guys who's been in Detroit his entire life and thinks this thing is crap tore one apart thought it was crap all this crap crap crap and then got him one and was mind was changed do you see if he can have his mind chained right that's all of us just need to encounter and drive in these cars yeah look what happened when he went to China 500 people were stuffed in a room waiting to hear about what he had to say about Tesla that 500 people did not include the many more that were outside of the room that the building owners were like you can't have more than 500 people in this room right it's against the safety law you're there to hear what sandy has to say because he has all the data on how this cars built right that many people in China want to hear this that's incredible think about 500 people in the industry and more who were like heard about him and went and to hear about his talk he then said that there are really good engineers in China now he said there used to be they weren't so good but in the past 10 years they've been learning from you know the Germans and the Americans and now they are crackerjack so that's great news because we're gonna need lots of great engineers in China to help build the lines and build the cars he said Tesla is gonna be a big deal in China and quote it's gonna be a new day I think this is from sandy Morano this is this is from a guy who was been originally crapping all over the car then one of them said hey now have you heard of this company Rivi n' and this is the weird part he was like ah no I don't think I have and then they're like I don't know if they showed him the logo or something then he's like oh yeah and he's like I can't say anything about my clients so Vivian has clearly bought the book about model 3 which I think is smart and I would kind of expect that you know they want to learn as many secrets as they can model three that's very smart of them I thought was really interesting the other guys on the show when they heard that he wouldn't talk about it they said well you know Riven's gonna have a problem because they're gonna have name recognition problems and it's like do you guys know anything but now I understand that it's gonna be expensive sure but it's made they're following the Tesla playbook which is come out with an expensive car for people who can afford it this is gonna be an adventure vehicle for people who can afford to go to Aspen and ski and they they they can buy any car they want like rich people can buy whatever they want this is gonna be a quad motor car yeah which have I don't think most humans have driven a quad motor car before it'll have torque vectoring which I know that I'm reading off of their press briefings or whatever but if you put four motors on a car you can you can make that car do anything it you can do tank steering you could just turn the car around without moving it I've seen that happen in electric car I've three wheels and break the fourth leg it's amazing what you can do and so what's gonna happen is they're going to create a brand right the problem with name recognition yeah well yeah until the super rich dudes are driving around and then it's going to be a luxury brand I mean that's best what happened to Tesla right it bugatti doesn't have a name recognition problem because not everyone's driving Bugattis right you've heard of Bugattis even though you could probably count the number of Bugattis in the world like on all the people around you was hand right like exactly there's not a lot of them here's a weird one okay david from bloomberg said this why can't the other companies do over-the-air updates this is from a guy who covers cars like that's his that's this job let me do it why do you think david that they can't do over-the-air updates because they're not a computer on wheels right they're built component component component you can't change anything even if you brought that car into the dealer they can't change anything about it right it wasn't built that way right David do you know what you're talking about what why are you allowed to write for a magazine why are you so bad at your job I mean the guys explain it to him and you know they talk about how most systems are not connected in a car whereas on a Tesla and the whole car is connected and they can just make changes with software updates and it's amazing also with with him during parts of the the talk it and at the end I know this was true but during parts of the talk he was sitting there with his cell phone out yeah on his lap during the middle of the thing when sandy had earlier said that he had people come in for interviews and the reason he didn't hire them was because they would take out a cell phone and start like interrupting the meeting he's just sitting there in his phone like in the black bowl I don't think the Tesla could do this or that and then and then he do just like I don't know I don't know he's just yeah I feel like the kind of guy who wants to just drop like I guess with Tesla stalks doing her name yo by the way uh oh and by the way I have to go oh I have to take this call Oh blah blah blah here's the thing they talked for an hour and 45 minutes no talk of pickup truck the Tesla pickup truck nothing no talk of Tesla supercharger nothing no talk of autopilot nope no talk of the model y nope no talk of the semi-truck nope no talk about solar no talk about batteries other than the one thing one little right I didn't mention the range of Tesla nope you know the the the battery rain they didn't compare that with the i3 with the leaf anything like that they did not talk about emissions no they do not talk about safety but other than the one for one second for the Sherman tank yeah thing they did not talk about the Future bit hardly at all they didn't talk about handling panoramic roof any of the little things about the car like like the like the Easter Egg other than John having driven it for a little few minutes and Sandy for a few minutes I don't think the other two have driven it at all right so there's four guys talking about a car that's out there now you can anyone can drive right and they haven't driven it right it's or experienced it it's really really funny to hear people talk about Tesla when hardly anyone in the conversation knows a lot about Tesla because in every conversation that I'm in somebody knows a lot about Tesla and usually is there to illuminate things you know gaps in information which there are plenty there is a lot to learn about Tesla and so it's just really funny when people are like oh with the model 3 blah blah blah blah blah and then it's like okay what about the model why what about the pickup truck right like you didn't will you talk about riffian and you don't bring up the Tesla pickup truck I think I think maybe a one-point David was like oh and Riven also might have when the Tesla pickup truck comes out right it's okay that's it you don't want to talk about maybe the Tesla pickup truck because the whole time he's like oh and everyone's moving away from passenger cars and everyone wants to do pickup trucks right which is like okay but like do you do know that change is coming on the horizon also Europe China right that's not true like oh right absolutely the biggest organized world for no one buys pickup truck right though America you're in serious trouble if that's all you've got to sell exactly I wish we had conversations like this from you know over a hundred years ago when horses were going to cars and if we had had you know this kind of discussion that we could go back and look at because it would have been so illuminating we don't unfortunately it's a really good point I mean history is kind of doomed to repeat itself which is why you know people study history but I don't think of it enough people study history to realize like oh this is really similar to the horse thing which is why we made the 1910 2010 video which we'll put the card up over there if you haven't seen it it's like it's a funny little skit it's like they don't know anything about electric cars they don't at all they don't it's you know something about cars right it's instantly like saying they know a lot about horses so they should be able to talk about automobiles right or oh I know a lot about checkers yeah I know everything about chess so let's do it exactly it's honestly yeah it's I'm just saying I hope our talk isn't as long as theirs though if we got to wrap it up yes absolutely so thank you so much for watching this episode of in-depth we make one every single week on top of the patreon bonus stories on top of the model three tip of the week and mind walk which is coming out Thursday so definitely check that out as well if you'd like to support us you can support us on patreon for as little as a buck a month you'll also get our patreon bonus stories also we have a Amazon affiliate code if you if you can't spare any money every month it's just whenever you're buying anything off Amazon click on our code before you buy and thanks so much for watching your viewership means a lot to us hit the like button and now you know

Channel: Now You Know

Views: 117,097

Rating: 4.8064518 out of 5

Keywords: tesla time news, now you know, zac, jesse, news, update, elon musk, model x, model 3, model s, model y, supercharger, nyk, electric cars, ev, technology, science, funny, autopilot, electrek, roadster, next generation, tesla, tesla news, first look, red model 3, ev adoption, roadtrip, network, charge, automobile, test, future, learning, does the model 3, model 3 tips, range, model 3 range, charging, battery, sandy munro model 3, sandy munro, bloomberg

Id: SKiJrqHmQMg

Length: 31min 3sec (1863 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 08 2019