Salman Rushdie: On Storytelling

and joining us now sir salman rushdie it's great to have you here thank you nice to see you walk in here without bodyguards too oh well that's that's a long time ago you know I really haven't seen a bodyguard in 12 years but you didn't have to hide or slink in either which was a nice change though well it isn't the changes I say it's been 12 years I'm quite used to it you're used to it oh yeah let's start talking about your book Luka and the fire of life you wrote a kids book 20 years ago and now 20 years later comes the second kids book how come so long I know really it's a younger son Milan for whom I wrote this keep saying to me since she said dad don't write novels write series it's true that all his contemporaries are reading books which are like volume five of eight you know it's taken me 20 years to come up with volume two so I have to accelerate somehow well why so long no well just waiting for the next child to grow up really I mean I have a big gap between my two sons as an 18-year gap here since what 31 31 yeah he was he was 12 when I wrote her in the sea of stories and my youngest on Milan was 12 when I finished this last year he's now just turned 13 has he read it yeah he was the first reader he had to approve it he had to approve I had to approve it before he could go out and if he said I don't like a dad yeah I've killed him but but you know fortunately he liked it very much and was actually a very useful reader because I wanted to reassure myself about certain parts of it that they were okay and not too scary and not too upsetting and so on but so I wanted him to be truthful about it and he was well there are some scary things and let's if you don't mind let's explore some of the themes that you get into here it'd be me when I read it I was of course like most people looking for autobiographical hints throughout it and maybe that's a mistake to do and you'll let me know if it is but your lead character Luca is on a quest to save his father's life and I guess the first thing that popped into my head is is this a story about Solomon trying to save his father's life or is it a hope about Salman's kids saving his life or how about that really it's a it's it arose out of the fact that that there is a big age gap between me and my younger son I mean you know I mean I was like like the characters in the book I was already turning 50 when when when Milla and my younger son was born you know and I think if you if you have a child later in life then the subject of mortality always there you know you remember when he was born I thought you know when this kid is 20 I'll already be 70 and and you begin to hope that you're going to be around you know fer to break to bring your son up and so I just thought that was the engine if you like that was that to use for the Pullman's phrase the dark material you know underneath the book and then and then out of that grows a sort of father-son love story you know about the child trying to rescue I tried to prevent that from happening and seeking out the magic thing that will keep his father with him so in the back of your head somewhere I it sounds like you do hope this child is somehow at some point going to save your life is so strong but maintain some kind of some kind of life well I think children do keep you young you know and I think that that's a that's just a truth I think that many parents would recognize and particularly if you have them later in life it's it's like having a second chance at being at being youthful you're 63 now 63 so do you think about what you're not going to be around for for him um well I'm gonna my plan is to live forever that sounds like that Woody Allen lied remember what he said what he said I want to achieve immortality not by writing good stuff but by living forever yes exactly well I think that's right I think that's my that's my strategy and so far so good how's it going so far there's one line in the book where Lucas says to his imposter father I don't give too much away but obviously there's an imposter father at some point you're in love with death and again I'm looking for subtext and all of that what's the subtext in all of that well I mean that figure in the book is a kind of a kind of angel of death who's arrived to to claim the life of Lucas father and and upsettingly looks exactly like him and is literally filling up with his father's effing life you know so he's he's a confusing figure for Luca because on the one hand because he looks and talks and moves like his dad it's easy to be seduced into thinking that that's actually somebody to be affectionate towards you know like his father philosopher gang but of course he's yeah and he is and he has a he has a maligned purpose you know so and as the proceeds you Lucar becomes or about not mistaking this person for his father and realizing that this is actually the enemy who's in love with death out there that you're taking a shot at no it's just death itself you know this is the subject of this book is life and death after all what Luca is looking for is the fire of life and the fire of life is not just staying alive you know I think I think it's also all the things that make us human it's its passion and creativity and you know it's the thing that keeps human life ablaze if you like now this may be a bit of a confession because I read the daily papers too much but when I read that line you're in love with death you know I started to think about suicide bombers and nihilistic Islamists and this type of thing I think that's a reach really actually Jake I mean I think the first book you know how ruin in the sea of stories which I wrote 20 years ago which I wrote in the middle of all that trouble that book does take on I mean it's a it's it's a fable but it does take on the subject of the kind of attack that was launched against the Satanic Verses against me and was a way if you like talking about that material to my then young son so this one I think the the engine as I say somewhat different it's to do with with with with the existential question of life and death inside a family where there's a big age gap between the parents and children okay you're going to forgive me for pursuing this line a little bit Boris all right I'll indulge in my own whatever the word is here the question of who gets to tell the story yeah you have said that's very important and of course there's that famous Winston Churchill line where he says I'm sure history is going to be good to me because I intend to write it yah-hoo right now in the Muslim world is writing the best and most accurate stuff about that world today I'm not sure I think there if you look around that that world there's a very large number of very distinguished writers at work you know there's a Lebanese writer han arnold sheikh i think is maybe one of the most formidable women novelists working now and of course the subject of women in that world is is you know extremely important than that's very much a subject I don't know there's a the violence that are we it with another woman writer and there's a there's a whole range of brilliant artists and and one of the I think one of the sad things about the more conservative parts of the Muslim world is how many of those artists are forced to do exile because of the impossibility of telling the truth speaking openly and freely in their own countries I'm going to come back to that a little bit later but I want to pursue something else with you right now in on that part of the banquette a few weeks ago we had a Canadian author named Yann Martel who's in case you must know him you both I've never met too much but I know he won the Booker said yeah he sends our Prime Minister a novel every two weeks yeah it's been doing that for a while because he thinks it's important that the Prime Minister read more than just briefing books on that obviously I'm reading a great novel can give it idea yeah well can give you insights into decision-making and your soul and all of that kind of thing what is the level of appreciation for literature and storytelling in the Muslim world right now in your view I don't know I mean I think it's a theory it's there but in practice there's a more of an intention to repress you know than to and to understand but I mean I think it's a good idea and I remember being very impressed when President Clinton said that his favorite writer was Gabriel Garcia Marquez and I thought if he if his favorite book is One Hundred Years of Solitude he's probably okay you know and and I would remember being also very impressed when I first read Barack Obama's writing you know because I think he's actually really quite good I mean shockingly good for a politician you know so I think when you get these moments when politicians do have broader interests you know you you you feel more interested in them as human beings and you feel that maybe they know more about the world it's become unfortunate that in many parts of the world not just the Muslim world you know the political life has become so narrowed that that people really read-only political material you know and I mean Tony Blair for instance used to openly say that that was all he read you know he read political biographies and books about economics and things like that and and I think it narrows you to do that do they get forgiven a little bit for doing that given that they are expected to be on 24/7 and know everything about what's going on yeah of course you know it's a big job you know but lots about some difficult jobs what is preventing in your view a more vibrant and intellectual exchange of honest ideas in the Muslim world today oh just just tyranny you know and I think there's just unfortunately it's a moment in which a lot of countries that you would broadly call Muslim countries are autocratic or tyrannical regimes and as I say if you look at the intellectual life of these countries there's clearly a desire amongst younger people in particular for a more open conversation and you have to hope that that will prevail in the end and sometimes I worry that the young people in the Diaspora seem to be more conservative than the young people in the Muslim world itself you see that in Iran i infect I was just emailing with a guy who's Iranian yesterday who was saying all of what you just said but then said god forbid that the Americans or the Israelis attack Iran because that will just shut everything down well I think that's unfortunately that is true I think the it's not a popular regime you know as we see from the older protests and so on but probably the only thing that could make Iranian people rally behind this regime that they don't like is an attack from outside but there's a damned if you do damned if you don't isn't it in a way no I think you just have to understand that sometimes we can't fix the problems of other countries you know and that and that we simply can support those voices in the country which are trying to fix their own problems you know but I think the problems of Iran have to be fixed inside Iran inside but you know they've tried elections which didn't go out so well and and it doesn't look like a popular revolutions in the mix no it doesn't but it's very tough but I think what I'm saying is that violence would be and I'm convinced counterproductive can authors be helpful on this you know I think it's a very interesting that question because in much of the world other than North America writers you know playwrights novelists poets you know are often asked to contribute to the public debate you know and if there's a general election in England in McEwen Martin Amis writers like that will be asked to write articles about what's going on and go interview politicians and things like that in here it seems here in the United States it seems as if there's a narrowing of the range of political discourse let's say there's a professionalization of the commentariat you know so there are people whose job it is to be commentators and nobody else gets to comment and I think that's I mean many of those are very good I'm not saying they're not able you know whether it's narrowing but it's narrowing and you want to hear a broader range of voices and I think there are a lot of voices amongst just thinking about American writers who are very qualified to talk about what's going on if you think about it writer like the like DeLillo for example you know you have the sense that he foretold a lot of what's going on now you know a novel like Mao to saw the rise of religious radicalism you know long before it really hit everyone else and I do know Joan Didion there's a whole range of writers who who have been very engaged with public issues and why wouldn't we want to know what they think well what do you think's going on with that why would we I know exactly what you mean there is a sense of who the hell are you to comment on this you're not a you know you're not a newspaper columnist yeah why do why do we do that well it's just somehow this this this decision that to be a commentator is a profession you know whereas actually many of us are you think about the society in which we live and have something to say about it and I think it's it's just a good thing for a society to broaden the range of voices that I heard because why what would be the value in hearing different voices well because that's what democracy is democracy is an argument you know and and if you narrow the argument you narrow the democracy you know I think you want to hear a turbulent you know argumentative society because that that's a that's one of the natures of freedom you know it's always tyrannical societies where there's silence you know in a free society there's noise and and and you want to hear that those as much of that noise as possible well you say that but if you look at societies that we are trying to help become democracies Iraq Afghanistan one of the things that that I have read is that the people they're unaccustomed to that kind of noise they can't handle that kind of noise and they prefer a return to a less noisy society so well I mean it's easy to say that but in my experience if you offer people the choice between freedom and tyranny there's very few of them to choose tyranny you know and yes I mean I'm not sure that you can actually create democracy via armed force and that may be a just a mistake you know about how to do it but I think in general if you talk to people in I mean one of the things I know from being involved with American pen is it we deal with writers in trouble in very wide range of countries I mean these days China is pretty near the top of that list but talk to people in those countries they don't they don't want repressive governments they want freedom you know everybody wants it everybody wants the same thing the human animal is not so different different way just a word on pen poets essayists novelists and your that you are aware that was the head of it now I'm now still I still run this we started when I was president of Penn we started this world literary festival where we just wanted to bring the world's voices to New York to debate with American voices I'm still I'm still ahead about how do you deal with the queer sure when you when you put the choice between freedom and tyranny of course people want freedom people also want security and we I'm sure you've certainly read lots of stories from Iraq for example where people said oh it was better in Saddam's day we didn't have you know bombs blowing up in the marketplace all the time you do have to speak to the security I saved it I would at you know and I don't want to pretend to be an expert on parts of the world I'm not but I do think that that in general I mean I wrote about this you know before 9/11 actually that the the Battle of this age I think is going to be a battle between Liberty and security you know and and of course the requirements of security often infringe on what we would think of as Liberty and and so how you how you reconcile that is an argument that every society has to have my instinct would be always to err on the side of Liberty other people have other views well this raises this question what country did you come from to come into Canada okay let's take the United States yeah I went through the machine you did today did they know you don't have to be patted out if you go to this machine you know the expression these days they keep your hands off my junk yesterday well did it touch when you don't have to they don't do that if you go through the Machine it's only if you refuse to go through the Machine and you did the Machine yeah why not did you feel it an infringement on your civil liberties doing so i did not know i think it's fine you know i think it's a it's what there now is there was it used to be that you went through a metal detector now you go through a thing which which detects whatever it detects of it I don't care I would I would like planes not to explode we all would but they they see a lot when they put you in those machines you know I don't think they're interested you know okay let's go on to this here you have argued that Westerners have actually contributed to the distorted image that I guess many people have of Islam how have we done that well I think both sides have distorted each other's image you know I think if you if you read what's said about about America so in Muslim countries it's a cartoon you know and there's very little relationship to the lived experience of being in the United States and and contrariwise you know we've been each other's others the west of the East you know for a long time and what happens that it's becomes easy to start demonizing it becomes easy to put blame where it doesn't belong to blame a majority for the actions of a minority and etc you know and I mean in part it's human nature to do that but it's still to be avoided if possible how do we get past that well I think by having this kind of conversation you know by trying to constantly raise consciousness you know I tried to get people to think more deeply about what's going on rather than in tabloid headlines you know but if for example your work is banned in some places that need it the most one argue again how do you do it well I do it's difficult isn't it except that there we do now have a way of unbanning things called the Internet it's very difficult to prevent a text from reaching an audience nowadays although they do try they do try but you can't do it because they cut off one branch and ten more spring up somewhere else so I mean I do think that one of the things that the internet gives us is is a weapon of free speech that that's actually very very hard to shut down where do you see that I mean it requires a bit of speculation I guess here but you know five years ten years down the road those branches that are springing out is the world going to look dramatically different five ten years from now it always does it always does I mean one of the things I remember the study of history is that the only thing you can be sure I was the thing you think is going to happen is what's not going to happen you know history always takes you by surprise and that's if you like a cause for optimism because it would be easy right now - project 5 10 years in the future and not feel particularly optimistic no but that's not necessarily right you know I think people who predict the future you know futurology I've always thought of as the science of being wrong about the future because they usually are because they usually are you know even then you could say in December 1988 it would have been impossible to foretell the fall of the Soviet Union yes no less than he only less than a year later so that's what I mean the world changes the world turns on a dime now it goes off in a completely different direction and we have to hope that a more optimistic that direction is the one that shows up so you are forecasting the end of the authoritarian communist regime in China obviously obviously I could give you a date issue I appreciate that what is that gonna have out of those six years four months three days are all right we'll have you back here then and we'll hold you to it let me talk to you about remember that of course you do the rally John Stewart had yes a rally to restore sanity and the guy that used to call Cat Stevens now Yusuf Islam performed at that value and here's the quote you said I've always liked Stewart and Colbert but what on earth was cat use of Stephens Islam doing on that stage if he's a good Muslim like Kareem abdul-jabbar then I'm the Great Pumpkin yeah okay what's a good Muslim well I mean certainly not someone who advocates who has recently advocated the stoning to death of women for adultery so it is certainly not someone who runs a school in England whose own mission statement says that they wish to bring about the subjugation of the whole world to Islamic rule and certainly not someone who believed and repeatedly said on television that he thought that writers should be killed for their opinions if they say that yes he did he'd now pretends he didn't because it's bad for business I guess but you know it's on TV you can find it on YouTube so however much he pretends he didn't say it you can prove to yourself that he did he said it to a New York Times journalist he said it on BBC television more than once so I was very surprised but he was on that show and actually I did reach out to Jon Stewart and talked to him about it and I think we had a couple of conversations at the end of which I think mr. Stewart I think accepted that that was maybe the wrong thing to do did he not know about the examples that you just talked about don't think so actually didn't know don't think so I think he thought of him as the guy who wrote peace trade right well that's what I wonder does this guy get a pass because he's got a beautiful voice and has written lots and I saw you know I back in the day every when I was a college student I had a copy of tea for the Tillerman you know but he he hasn't been cat stevens for a long time no he has not has he no you also signed on to that manifesto in support of the Danish newspapers publication of all of those cartoons why'd you do that well look here's the thing that the thing that those cartoons were accused of was disrespect you know at cetera or offensiveness whatever I ask myself what would a respectful political cartoon look like it just wouldn't exist and that's an oxymoron yes the actual form of political cartooning is disrespectful its purpose is to poke fun at or deflate the pomposity of public figures you know and so if we're going to have political cartooning at all we just have to accept that disrespect is what it does and you just have to deal with it and I think there's two different subjects one is would you have published the cartoons and I think different news picture editors of different newspapers would have made different decisions about that you know I thought they wanted two of them or funny and one of them were not funny so if I was editing it I might have published a couple of them and not published others but that's that's if you like a journalistic question that the separate question is what do you do in response to threats and I think what you do in response to threats as you say we will not be scared at that point it seemed to me every newspaper in the world should publish the cartoons Victor because the point is if you give in to threats the one thing it guarantees is that there will be more threats you know you don't make peace by giving in to violence what you do is you ensure that there will be more violence in the future you're obviously a guy who can speak with a great authority on this topic given your background but but but people did die yeah as a result of the fatwa on you with the Satanic Verses well let's I'm glad you put it that way because the point is novels don't kill people you know tyrants kill people and what happened was a response of extraordinary violence to a perfectly legitimate work of literature no much of it perpetrated by people who had never seen a copy of the book much less read it but was simply doing what various religious authorities instructed them to do and those authorities of course had their own agendas which were not if you like literary critical you know they were much more brutal than that they wanted to make an example which would scare other people etc you know so so it was an important battle to fight I think and I I'm very well aware of the fact that the way in which we won that battle was not primarily by political support it was through the resistance of ordinary people you know it was the resistance of people working on the front line in bookstores and and and people working in publishing companies and translators and so on and and really just ordinary readers deciding not to be told what they could read and could not read you know so I think it was a large collective defense of free speech but I'm interested that you say you won that battle yeah by what definition do you think you won well book is available in 45 languages and the author is still available the author is still available yeah but people died yes people died and people were injured and weren't including my Norwegian publisher was shot in the back three times and but to show you what I mean when I mean I thought you very came very close to death and had he not been a former Olympic athlete he might well not have survived but as it was he was a very fit man you know and when he recovered and I was able to speak to him the first thing he said to me I was sort of apologetic you know because it seemed clear that he was a soft target easier to hit than I was at the time and he said look you don't if you apologize I have a grown-up person I know exactly what I was doing and what's more I'm just ordered to reprint hmm you know that's a brave man but I think what I mean is that people felt that the principle here was important to defend including by the way a very large number of people in the Muslim world I mean there was a whole book published of Islamic writers defending defending me in the Satanic Verses originally published in France and then afterwards published in England in America and those writers of course were taking in many ways very considerable risk because they were still living in these repressive societies where where it wasn't always okay to speak in that way I'm guessing it's one thing to accept the danger unto yourself but then you know given the collateral damage in this case did you feel guilty when you found out that others were either killed or injured of course you don't feel good about it but you know you really have to avoid trying to transfer the guilt here you know crimes are committed by criminals you know and you there's a it's too easy to blame the victim you know and there was too much about I don't say blame the victim but but if if somebody else had been hurt for something that I had done regardless of how justified whatever it was that I had done I feel pretty crappy about it well I didn't feel good about my friends be hurt you know but but as I say the battle is to keep the enemy in your sights and not to decide that it's your fault you know this is somebody else's fault if people decide that they can shoot people for the writing of a book that's their fault it's not mine right so you won when did you know at what moment did you declare victory no I mean I don't think he's not as easy as that what I'm saying is that there was an attempt to suppress a work which didn't succeed and there was an attempt to suppress a right so it also didn't succeed I think there are other ways in which it wasn't a victory because I think it did have a chilling effect on other speech you know night but I do think that publishers are now much less likely to publish anything that they think will alarm or excite Islamic radicals and they used to be I think it's not a win I said no it's an it's an ambiguous the victory is never clear you know if there's one side which is positive no the side which is very problematic you know and I think one needs to argue against that do you know that have publishers said to you you know we would have taken a chance on this but we're not going to now because of what happened you haven't said it's me but I can see the kind of books that are not being published you know or that have difficulty getting published there is no question there's a great deal with colleges around and to those who would say you know what you wouldn't publish those kind of cartoon not you but the publishing world would not have published those kinds of cartoons about the Pope or the you know the chief rabbi of Israel or whatever publishing about the Pope all the time you know I mean particularly right now with the Catholic Church having certain problems though to do with you know child abuse and whatever maybe I'd like there's very rude cartoons about the Pope all the time you know so it's not true that only one religion comes in for it you know every what the people who come in forget it in the neck and political cartooning are people who you know for whatever reason are in the spotlight for for things which are worthy of criticism you know and any political cartoon is worth his salt will go for it you know at the moment he sees a you know an opportunity that's what they do it's their job and it seems to me in a really in a free society what you do is you deal with it you know you develop a thicker skin and you get on with your day I know you're not a big believer but what do you think God makes of all this well you know yeah not to say I'm not a big believer is to put it mildly I was doing that but it just seems to me that you know if there's a god it would be very improbable that he would be shaded on his throne by a political cartoon what kind of God would that be you know it wouldn't be much of a god and and if there's not a God then he would certainly not be shaken on his throne by political cartoons so whether there is or is not a God a political cartoon is not a very big problem in the scheme of things in Danish yet in Danish yet comedy in Danish exactly let's talk about what you're working on now you're doing a memoir I guess of life after the fact well I well not know during as well yeah I mean well what I'm immediately doing is is working on a film of Midnight's Children which I've done a screenplay for which Deepa Mehta right here is is in the process of setting up to direct and that's really exciting because I've never had a book of mine filmed you never have but now you know what when I read this that the whole time I was reading this I thought to myself wow that'd be great scene in the movies well I think you know the thing about Hollywood is of course they look they're more interested now that there's two but that follow on from each other because you know they look for series now as my little boy was recommending so now that there's a mother there's a possibility of a property that could go through more than one film they they're more interested so we know we're having some chats let's hope it comes off but yeah this will be the first one you know and so I'm excited about that and when the big we know we're in pre-production we're casting and location finding and so on and so you're going to say in all of us yeah no we're working very closely together go deeper and I are quite old friends and we've come much closer during the making of this so yes she's been you know asking me to be involved in every casting decision and locations and costumes and music and so on so yes I'm very as a hands-on as one can be is the writer and then yeah then the next business is I mean I've started work on a memoir which I drove memoir autobiography I don't know what the difference is and of course the original motivation was was these years we've been touching on but when I acquired an interesting life that's in a very gentle way of putting it and I just thought I always knew that one of these days I would want to tell the story you know I'm for a long time I didn't want to I just wanted to get back to the day job and write novels you know but it was always in my mind you know to do this and I just decided I would leave it to instinct that they would come a time when I felt okay I'm ready now you know and earlier this year that I thought okay time to try to try and do this and I have started work on it and I've written about 150 pages so far you know so I'm quite a long way into it is it the first thing everybody asks you when they see you um well it's I hope that writing the book will get that off the table you know what I mean because once that book is out there but I'm gonna try and talk as openly as I can about what happened and why and what it felt like them you know so I mean I think actually the human story is the interesting story for people it says what would it have been like to be in those shoes you know to go through that experience and not just for me but for my children my family etc so I hope I mean my target is to finish it about about a year about a year from now and pretty to come out the year after in terms of this and turning these books into movies you how concerned are you that you know JK rowling really has cornered the market on this kind of thing has she not oh yeah but they run out of her books I guess you know they're gonna make two movies on the last book i yeah but I shot them already I'm just releasing the first one I mean no I think there's room for more books in the world and more films in the world than Harry Potter you know I mean I think we should we you know anybody who writes this kind of book owes her a debt of gratitude because I think she persuaded a whole generation of young people to read nine hundred page novels and that's not nothing you know that's shocking actually yes there used to be conventional wisdom that children were less interested in reading than they were and certainly they were very uninterested in reading very long books you know and she disproved all of that so you know good for her but you know there's a whole range now interesting films that that are made in a way where you stop asking yourself whether they're for younger or older audiences you know and I think I know what is it's been true for a while whose star wars for you know who is Indiana Jones form and avatar you know I mean it could be anybody could go from seven years old to know 275 and enjoy it and even the Pixar movies maybe see ratatouille or whatever Toy Story 3 you know they're just as enjoyable for adults as children so it's a very interesting area that's grown up in the cinema that this kind of middle ground between a childhood and adulthood and I always thought that if you can do it in the movies you can do it in books and that's one of the great pleasures for me of the success of her intimacy of stories is that that's exactly what happened that adults came to it from one direction and got one set of satisfactions from it and kids came to it from another direction found other things in it you know and I mean so far so good with this book it seems to be doing it again in our last couple of minutes I want to ask you a bit of an unusual question a former Canadian politician who is a single woman unmarried living in Ottawa most of the time represented her riding a long way away from the Capitol once said it is impossible for a powerful single woman to get a date in this town but somehow Salman Rushdie under the threat of death managed to get married and have children how does he do it this incredible sexual attraction I'm feeling it right now yeah that's it simple you know I don't know I can't talk about this stuff you know every dive I've been lucky in I suppose or unlucky in love or however you want to call it but it's it's well both I guess I yeah well which is true of most of us you know most of us have had times of happiness and other times of unhappiness and this is just human life I'm 63 years old I just have dive had four or five important women in my life that's not so that's not a huge thing but you marry them all I didn't marry or well not all for them but most of them yeah and well you know what I'm gonna leave it there because one of the things we try not to do on this program is ask people a lot of questions about their personal life which is nobody's business but their's so we'll leave it there and they'll just say it's a great pleasure to meet you and I thank you so much for coming in today to talk to us about your latest book and about your life and other things thank you so much thanks nice to be thank you

Channel: The Agenda with Steve Paikin

Views: 52,296

Rating: 4.6713614 out of 5

Keywords: TVO, TVOntario, Agenda, Steve, Paikin, current, affairs, analysis, debate, politics, policy, Islam, Muslim, fatwa, literacy, literature

Id: ud5Wu_D2kVE

Length: 34min 30sec (2070 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 29 2010