THIS AND THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN RUSSIA. >> BILL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME. I KNOW YOU ARE IN D.C., BECAUSE YOU ARE TALKING TO CONGRESS ABOUT HOW TO USE RUSSIAN ASSETS TO HELP FINANCE UKRAINE'S DEFENSE. HOW WOULD THAT WORK? >> BASICALLY, WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE, AFTER THE WAR BEGAN, THE WEST HAS FROZEN 350 BILLION DOLLARS OF RUSSIAN CENTRAL BANK RESERVES. AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT RUSSIA HAS NOW CAUSED MORE THAN A TRILLION DOLLARS OF DAMAGE IN UKRAINE. AND SO, THE OBVIOUS THING TO DO IS TO TAKE THAT MONEY THAT IS FROZEN AND GIVE IT TO THE UKRAINIANS FOR THEIR DEFENSE AND RECONSTRUCTION. IT SEEMS BOTH MORALLY CORRECT, FINANCIALLY CORRECT AND POLITICALLY CORRECT. >> I DON'T DISAGREE. IT SEEMS OBVIOUS. THEN, WHAT IS HOLDING US BACK FROM DOING THAT. WHAT ARE YOU THEY TELLING YOU ON THE HILL? >> WHAT WE HAVE IS SORT OF WEIRD BUREAUCRATIC CAUTION, AND PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO BE DOING ANYTHING THAT WOULD ESCALATE. WE DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE US LOOK BAD. BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, IF PUTIN IS READY TO KILL ALL THESE INNOCENT UKRAINIANS AND DO ALL THIS OTHER TERRIBLE STUFF, THEN WE SHOULD NOT BE SO TIPTOEING AROUND HIM. AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OBJECTION ON CAPITOL HILL, EVERY SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN THAT I KNOW SUPPORTS THE IDEA. BUT THE HESITATION AS A NEW ADMINISTRATION -- THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS CAUTIOUS, MAY BE OVERLY CAUTIOUS IN THIS AREA. AND SO, THE KEY NOW IS TO JUST PUSH THIS OVER THE LINE. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS ONE TO ME? RUSSIA ANNOUNCED THAT IT IS PULLING OUT OF THE DEAL THAT ALLOWED FOR GRAIN FROM UKRAINE TO BE EXPORTED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. AND AS WE HAVE ALL REALIZED, IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, UKRAINE IS A MAJOR SOURCE OF GRAIN FOR THE WORLD. WHY IS RUSSIA DOING THIS NOW? >> SO, PUTIN IS JUST USING -- HIS WHOLE MODUS OPERANDI IN ALL THE SITUATIONS IS JUST TO CAUSE TROUBLE WHEREVER HE CAN, USE WHATEVER LEVERAGE HE HAS. AND SO, HE BLOWS UP A DAM, CAUSES AN ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER, AND NOW HE IS USING THIS GRAIN THING TO BASICALLY CAUSE THE PRICE OF WHEAT AND OTHER THINGS TO GO UP IN AFRICA. LIKE IN THE OLD DAYS, WHEN HE WAS BOMBING SYRIA TO CREATE REFUGEES, THAT IS WHAT THIS NEW THING IS ABOUT. BY CREATING A FOOD HUNGER CRISIS IN AFRICA, HE'S HOPING THAT REFUGEES WILL SWARM EUROPE AND, PERHAPS THAT WILL CREATE MORE FAR-RIGHT PARTIES TO COME INTO POWER, WHICH WILL BE SUPPORTIVE OF HIM. IT IS KIND OF LIKE HE JUST LIKES TO MESS STUFF UP, AND TO SEE WHERE THE CHIPS FALL. I DON'T THINK HE HAS ANY SPECIFIC GOAL HERE OTHER THAN JUST TO CREATE CHAOS, WHICH IS WHAT HE DOES AND HOW HE OPERATES. >> HE SURE DOES. THERE'S ANOTHER TOPIC I AM DYING TO COVER WITH YOU. THAT REVOLT FROM A FEW WEEKS AGO -- YOU KNOW, THE MINI COUP LED BY THE WAGNER GROUP? WHAT DO YOU THINK ACTUALLY HAPPENED THERE, HOW ENDED? WHAT'S YOUR WHOLE ASSESSMENT OF? IT >> SO THE FIRST THING I WOULD SAY IS, THAT'S PROBABLY THE SINGLE MOST DAMAGING THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO PUTIN SINCE HE CAME TO POWER? HIS WHOLE THING THE WAY HE STAYS INTO POWER, IS BY PROJECTING STRENGTH BY SHOWING THAT HE IS THE MOST BRUTAL, TERRIFYING DICTATOR AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY WHO IS MORE BRUTAL, MORE TERRIFYING, WHO BASICALLY ROLLS THROUGH ALL THESE RUSSIAN CITIES, AND THEY PUT FLOWERS ON PRIGOZHIN'S TANKS AND PUT TAKES ALL FEES WITH HIM. AND WHAT IT DID IS POP THIS MYTH, THE BUBBLE, THAT PUTIN IS A STRONGMAN AND THAT'S A VERY HARD THING TO RECOVER FROM. NOW, WHY DIDN'T PRIGOZHIN MAKE IT ALL THE WAY? WELL, YOU CAN TAKE OVER COUNTRY -- A COUNTRY OF 141 MILLION PEOPLE -- WITH 1000 TROOPS. HE NEEDED PEOPLE IN MOSCOW WHO WERE GOING TO GO ALONG WITH HIM, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT HE THOUGHT HE HAD THEM THEY PROBABLY GOT COLD FEET WHEN HE GOT CLOSE TO MOSCOW. BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THIS HAS OPENED UP A TERRIBLE PANDORA'S BOX FOR PUTIN. HE HAS NOW SHOWN HIS WEAKNESS IN A COUNTRY WHERE THEY DESPISE WEAKNESS. AND EVEN IF PRIGOZHIN DID NOT SUCCEED, I THINK OTHERS WILL LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, MAYBE THERE'S A CHANCE FOR ME. AND SO I THINK THE PROBABILITY THAT SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS TO PUTIN IN THE FUTURE HAS INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY BECAUSE OF THIS WHOLE WAGNER REBELLION. >> SO, LET'S STAY THERE. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? IF YOU THINK THE PROBABILITY THAT SOMEBODY ELSE GOES AFTER HIM IS HIGH, WHAT IS GOING ON IN PUTIN'S MIND? AS YOU JUST SAID, HE IS OBSESSED WITH STRENGTH, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. AND THIS IS THE WEAKEST HE HAS EVER LOOKED. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. AND SO HE IS IN THIS TERRIBLE POSITION WE ARE THE NORMAL THING THAT A DICTATOR WILL DO IF SOMEBODY HAS CHALLENGED THEM IS TO GO ON AN ALMIGHTY PURGE, AND JUST TAKE OUT EVERYBODY AND EVERYTHING THAT STANDS IN HIS WAY. AND SO, THE NORMAL THING YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED HERE IS THAT HE WOULD ARREST PRIGOZHIN, BRINGING HIM TO RED SQUARE, SET UP A GUILLOTINE, PUT HIS HEAD ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK AND CUT OFF. THAT IS THE KIND OF THING A DICTATOR WOULD DO. BUT INSTEAD, THEY DIDN'T DO THAT. THEY HAVE, LIKE, MEETINGS WITH PRIGOZHIN AT THE KREMLIN. HE HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO GO FREE. IF HE IS NOT THE GUY WHO HAS PURGED 50,000 DISLOYAL LIEUTENANTS, THEN EVERYBODY IS GOING TO SAY, HEY, MAYBE THERE IS A CHANCE THAT I CAN GET UP THERE AND BE THE STRONGMAN, BE THE DICTATOR, BE THE GUY THAT GETS ALL THE MONEY. AND THERE IS A BIG INCENTIVE FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO DO
