Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt: What The New Evidence Tells Us

she's like a sickness in my brain a  vision standing by the window pain   she ripples through the blinds and leaves  me in a days it's in the way about moves   me the way she grabs me and intoxicates  until the signals in my mind forget to operate should put the treasure in your  fragile skull I take my pleasure from my   alcohol she never give you in a time  all she just comes and goes you know I she's got living in a chemical of ey try to find a strength and know she go back  to me again I'm going to come up from a hiding   place hello Hello everybody welcome back to my  channel and thank you for joining me for another   true crime video we've talked about Ruby Frankie  and the eat passengers YouTube channel we did a   video on it several months ago after Ruby and  her business partner her business partner jod   hilderbrandt were arrested and charged with the  abuse of Ruby's two minor children aged 12 and N   since then there have been new documents and  evidence released in the case and it's truly   chilling so for a quick summary of the case Ruby  Frankie was best known for her popular YouTube   channel eight passengers where she documented  family life with her husband Kevin and their   six children on December 18th 2023 Ruby pleaded  guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse   on December 27th jod hilderbrand a licensed  therapist who ran an online self-improvement   program with Ruby called conion she also pleaded  guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse   4 months earlier in August of 2023 both women had  been arrested after Ruby's 12-year-old son crawled   out of a window that was in Jody's Ivan's Utah  home and he ran to the residence of a neighbor   for help the boy had duct tape on his ankles  and wrists and he appeared to be in a state   of malnourishment it was at that time that the  neighbor found out from the 12-year-old that his   99-year-old sister was still in the house and  the boy claimed he had not seen his sister in   over a month the neighbor called 911 and police  responded to Jody's residents at which time they   placed her under arrest and conducted a search of  her property finding Ruby's 9-year-old daughter   terrified and hiding in a closet also emaciated  also clearly not eating properly and not receiving   the proper care that a child deserves to receive  now they have released a bunch of new evidence   and amongst the recently released evidence are  a plethora of videos documents jailhouse phone   calls and journal entries o the journal entries  along with this evidence the Washington County   attorneys office issued a case summary which said  quote the ensuing investigation revealed that   Miss Frankie and Miss hilderbrandt held Frankie's  12-year-old son and 9-year-old daughter in a Work   Camp like setting and this is not an exaggeration  the children were regularly denied food water   beds to sleep in and virtually all forms of  entertainment they were also prohibited from   interacting with others and were hidden in the  home when others came to visit they were forced   to do physical tasks like carrying loaded boxes up  and downstairs and sitting against a wall without   a chair or stool for hours at a time the children  were also forced to do manual labor outdoors in   the extreme summer heat without shoes or socks  they were similarly forced to stand outside on   a cement patio in the summer heat for hours and  even days they were beaten and the 12-year-old   was bound hand and foot after a previous attempt  at running away additionally the children suffered   emotional abuse to the extent that they came to  believe they deserved the abuse the investigation   found that religious extremism motivated Miss  Frankie and Miss hilderbrand to inflict this   horrific abuse the women appear to fully believe  that the abuse they inflicted was necessary to   teach the children how to properly repent for  Imagined sins and to cast the evil spirits out   of their bodies end quote honestly it looks like  we might have another Lori valow and Chad deal   on our hands and I never thought I would say  this but Ruby Frankie might be worse because   when you hear about the things she did to her own  children you're going to be shocked disgusted and   stunningly saddened and yes I know that Chad  and Lori ended up taking the lives of JJ and   Ty but I do believe had these two women Ruby and  jod not been stopped the 12-year-old boy and the   9-year-old girl would eventually have been dead  too that is a a a true belief that I hold and I   think that law enforcement probably shares that  belief because you'll see in some of these clips   that these police officers are absolutely  stunned they are devastated by what they're   seeing and the uh prosecuting attorney recently  did a interview with I believe it was news nation   and he said every single law enforcement officer  that's worked on this case has had to go home and   like take some time for their own mental health  because of how devastating it is we have a lot   to talk about today but before we do let's have a  word from the sponsor of today's video hello fresh   get mouthwatering seon seal recipes and fresh  pre-measured ingredients delivered right to your   door with hellofresh America's number one meal kit  whether you're trying to save money eat better or   stress less hellofresh is here to help you do all  three and personally I'm focused on saving money   and stressing less right now because my life has  drastically changed in these last few months and   I currently find myself with decreased funds and  increased stress anything to make my life easier   right now is a welcome Edition and honestly  hellofresh has been making my life easier for   years actually since 2020 when the pandemic hit  I've been using hellofresh so for uh four years   about exactly four years now I was afraid because  there's no food in the grocery stores and I wanted   to make sure I could still Fe feed my 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into the condition of Ruby's two children   but we are going to get some context into the  why the why which there is no why right there's   no legitimate reason that you would do this to  children but I guess the why the motive in the   um you know fever dream brains of Ruby and jod why  they thought this was acceptable why they thought   this was the only way so we're going to start with  the brave Escape of Ruby's 12-year-old son who's   referred to in these documents as RF now because  the documents refer to Ruby's son as RF and Ruby's   daughter as EF they're trying to protect their  privacy however we have to remember that these   two children were on a very public YouTube channel  there's really no protecting their privacy at this   point anybody who watched eight passengers and  there was millions of subscribers knows that RF   stands for Russell Frankie and EF stands for Eve  Frankie and in the first video before they had   started using their initials I did use their  names because everyone knows their names and   I'm going to continue to use their names in this  video for the purpose of clarification and for   the purpose of not confusing myself unfortunately  that is another downfall of putting your children   on a very public platform when something like  this happens or in any situation they no longer   have privacy the world knows their names so RF  is Russell Frankie he's the 12-year-old son EF   is Eve Frankie she's the 9-year-old daughter so in  this video you can see that Russell approaches the   door of a neighbor and you can also see that he  does this slowly tentatively he rings the doorbell   and then he waits for someone to answer and as he  stands there we can make observations about his   appearance the boy looks extremely thin uh thin  arms thin legs he's 12 years old my son Aiden is   12 years old when I look at Russell in this video  he looks like he's eight or nine because he's so   thin because he's so malnourished you can also see  there's something around his ankles which we'll   find out later is duct tape and he has shoes on  but no socks and his clothes are thin and ragged   and they're hanging on his thin frame because  they're they're just too large for him due to the   amount of weight that he's lost there's also what  appears to be blood on one of his arms and this   is the first house Russell goes to so we didn't  really know that Russell had gone to a neighbor's   house previously before he went to the neighbor  that eventually ended up calling 911 so Russell   rang the doorbell when no one answered after  the doorbell ring he knocked on the door but he   does so once again very lightly very tentatively  either because he's too weak to knock harder or   because he's afraid of making too much noise and  drawing attention to himself this is a response   that no doubt would have been programmed into him  conditioning him to make himself as small and as   quiet as possible so when no one answers the door  at this first neighbor's house Russell leaves and   he moves on to to another house and this is the  residence where the homeowner would make that   wellknown 911 call alerting the authorities to  what was happening in jod hilderbrand's House of   Horrors at first when Russell rings the doorbell  he gets some automated response which is weird   I've never seen that before he starts to walk away  cuz he thinks like the first house nobody's here   nobody's going to answer but then the man who  lived at the house calls him back and asks what   he wants and at first the neighbor seems kind of  weary I'm not sure why you'd be so suspicious of   a child but he's like what do you want you know  is like what do you want kid and then Russell   gets kind of closer and then the man realizes you  know this is a kid who needs help he's not some Rascal answer the door right now but if  You' like to leave a message you can do it now yes hi I was just wondering if you could do two favors well what are they uh taking me to  the nearest police station well actually   just one's fine what's going on son I  have a seat there it's personal business have SE what your name how'd you get here I I he has  duct tape big injuries there's sores around them   yeah there's sores around them I think the  a good chance he's been and he also has oh   and he has around his ankle me his wrists as  well okay this boy has been need immediate oh he was such a good kid this kid is prob St I think 22512 what happened I just had a  12-year-old boy show up here at   my front door asking for help and he's uh  said he just came from a neighbor's house and he's emaciated he's got tape  around his legs he's hungry and   he's thirsty need someone immediately he's hungry and stalking feet so he he escaped we need the police here you don't have any drive after the 911 call First  Responders arrived and then they   loaded Russell into an ambulance one  of the First Responders she begins to   cry when she sees the condition  that this 12-year-old boy was inad you uh got pictures I'll take more if  you want me to let view Russell was placed   in the ambulance so his wounds could be inspected  before he would be transported to the hospital and   although Russell's face is blurred in these videos  you can clearly see the wounds on his arms and legs hey I'm Sergeant to me just  get a few pictures are you okay   that how did you get the ropes on you who did them you're not in trouble with me  okay we're just trying to figure out   what's going on our main focus right  now is you okay who put the ropes on you what's to help you want in another clip a police officer is  describing desing the wounds on Russell   in great detail and I believe the context of  this video is that this officer is speaking   to someone on the phone because there's  no one responding to him but it sounds   like he's having a conversation with someone  so I do believe he was on the phone but just   listen to what he says and it's going to be  hard to listen to I'm sure it was hard for   this person this police officer to see and  witness but listen to what he says listen   to how he describes Russell's condition waser  the kid he was sitting on the chair had the um   duct tape and plastic around uh his ankles and  then he had a long sleeve shirt on and then we   pulled his sleeves up and he had duct tape and  clear plastic underneath the sleeves on both wrists and then uh Medical there they started  cutting his cutting the stuff off him and then   you can see like the the dark around his  ankles and it it you could smell it the flesh it's underneath the tap as soon as they took   it off you can even outside you can  smell you can smell the the flesh and then um the transport or put him in the  ambulance I went in there um they started   cutting more off of it you can see the wounds  on the back of his ankles or on the front of   his ankles um and then on his wrists as well and  um the wounds around his ankles were dark and um like I don't know like wet looking  I guess from the moisture underneath it yeah he said he said uh he was tied  on the ground with a rope that's where   the wounds came from yeah with ropes  on all four of his extremities and   that's where the wounds came  from and then um the put the put yeah they put cayenne pepper  mixed with uh honey he said on   the wounds and then covered that  with the plastic San wrap and then   the duct tape over the wounds yeah  and then that's what we cut off was that yeah they dressed the wounds um some of the  wounds when I was in there um when they went to   go um peel it they thought it was some of the  dressing it was actually his skin that was so   that was hard to hear and I want to address a few  things Russell told the police that his mother   and jod had attempted to treat his wounds with a  paste this paste was made of cayenne pepper and   honey apparently jod and Ruby Had cover Russell's  wounds with this paste and then they put plastic   wrap over the paste I guess to cover it and I'm  not sure if the cayenne pepper and honey paste   was intended to treat the wounds or to make them  worse because while both of these ingredients do   have natural healing properties and they're like  anti-inflammatory allegedly cayenne pepper also   contains something called capsacin therefore  it's important to apply with caution and only   on small wounds um unbroken skin you should  not be applying cayenne pepper or caps of any   kind to deep or serious wounds which inarguably  that child showed he had Mount siai Hospital in   New York specifically says to not apply capsacin  on open wounds or broken skin CU it'll make it   worse additionally towards the end of that clip we  heard the police officer mentioned that while the   dressings on the wounds were being removed a layer  of something came off and initially they thought   that it was just more gauze and plastic wrap  more covering of the wound but then they realized   that it was Russell's skin now inside the house  officers would locate a jar of the skin burning   concoction that's what they've started calling  it a skin burning paste and the jar had a spoon   inside of it along with two used medical gaues so  what Russell said to the police was verified with   this jar of cayenne pepper and honey found inside  next to medical gauze next we'll move on to the   body care camera footage of jod hild debrand  being taken into custody and compared to the   previous Clips we have just seen it's kind of  the levity break that we all needed she answers   the door all Cocky and Confident entitled some  might say she tells the police what she's going   to do and she tells the police what's going to  happen she's demanding answers she's like you   can't come in here I'm on the phone with my lawyer  and then they just yanked her ass out of the house   right and she was scandalized she was clutching  her pearls her entitled and self-absorbed Soul   could literally not handle the reality of the  situation she could not imagine a world where   she's not able to control manipulate and navigate  the situation with tactics of basically mental   abuse that's Jody's specialty jod I need you step  out I have I have my attorney that's great step   out of the house no I'm not going to step out of  the house step out of the house step out of the house wait minute how do you come to my house  there they going into my house so have a seat   right there do you have a search One have a seat  right there you have a search one I have a seat   right there I'll explain everything after I have  a seat right there do you have a search one sir   control 12x1 can you hold the air we're searching  the house I can tell you what's in the house okay   just have a seat right there for me do you have  a search warrant we'll explain it after this you   can't just come into my house without a search  warant we'll explain everything after this ma'am okay well that's one of the reasons why we're here  so we'll explain after everything's done after we   clear the house and make sure everything's fine  in but why are you coming into my house without   a we explain it after this but that doesn't make  sense you come into my house and do what you want   and then you tell me you don't have a warrant  we'll explain why we did but don't you have to   have a warrant not at this moment we don't we're  here on exigent circumstances and I explain it   after this after my sergeant and the officer are  done clearing the house so you hear jod asking   continually do you have a warrant do you have a  warrant do you warrant and no one really gives   her an answer and nobody really gives a [ __ ]  that she's asking because frankly they don't   have to have a warrant they don't have to in the  situation of suspected child abuse and not just   suspected child abuse like they just can't the  police can't just break into your house if they   suspect child abuse is happening but the fact that  they had Russell in the ambulance already telling   them what had happened and telling them that his  sister was still inside the police don't need a   warrant for that they can go in to do a safety a  welfare check they can go in and make sure that   um you know everything's okay everything's easy  peasy and like I said I think that having one   child sitting in an ambulance starving terrified  covered in wounds that's enough of a reason to   bust into Jody's house and not give her a ton of  consideration in the process and you can hear as   this police off officers talking to jod other  police officers are inside the house they're   talking to each other they're going room by room  they're clearing the house and they're looking for   Russell's 9-year-old sister Eve as well as any  other children that could be potentially abused   and hidden inside is there anybody else in the  house yes two kids there's a little girl just one   she's right over here okay how old is she she'll  be 10 next week okay and she's on this side mhm I have Airbnb guas over there probably scared  him to death okay the literal audacity of this   woman jod hilderbrandt talking about her Airbnb  guest being scared when she's been torturing   two children in her house for no less than  8 weeks straight the audacity of her to even   have Airbnb guests in her house while she's  doing this to Russell and Eve now inside the   house law enforcement did event eventually locate  9-year-old Eve she was cowering and scared inside   of a closet it looked like it was a closet off of  a bathroom inside one of the many rooms of this   home and although many people many different  people tried to speak to Eve she wouldn't say   a word so initially uh Sergeant tobler he's a  man he speaks to Eve she won't talk to him then   they bring in a female paramedic the same one  who I believe was crying when she saw Russell   Eve won't talk to her either and it's really  devastating to see a child like this because   evea is at the point where she's so she's been  so hurt she's been so mentally and emotionally   physically abused she can't even trust adults  anymore she can't trust anybody because if   your own mother could do what what ruby did to  Eve and to Russell then how can you trust any   grownup how can you you come on buddy I I'm  a police officer you want to put a union in   here hey you okay is this just you in here I'm  Sergeant tobler what's your name I just have one   where's your sister at contact one you okay huh  you doing okay you don't want to talk to me yeah   that's okay can you come with me though we got  jod out here you know Jodie she's outside with us you take your time but I'm in a hurry I'm a  police officer did you know that I don't mean   to hurt you at all now initially you can hear  Sergeant tobler refer to Eve as bud and then ask   her where her sister is and that's because tobler  initially thought that Eve was a boy because she   was so thin and because her hair had been cut  very short and that's something we're going   to talk about in more depth later on the hair  cutting I'm not going to hurt you promise see   this right here it's a badge that tells me I don't  hurt people I'm just here to make sure you're okay you're no way in any trouble  I'm not here to hurt you I just   want to make sure you're okay I  get if you're scared I would be okay you want to come with me not only is this  little girl not talking but she's not even moving   she's sitting in the same exact position she's  not reacting to anything it's almost as if she's   completely disassociated which makes a lot of  sense considering the literal hell she'd been   living in for months and the unthinkable things  she'd been exposed to the incredibly traumatic   statements made to her and about her coming  from the mouth of her own mother once again   we're going to talk about the things that Ruby  said to her children the things she told them   about themselves the fact that she brainwashed  them and broke them down so completely that as   the police stated they thought they deserved  this abuse so like I said one of the female   EMTs she attempts to speak to Eve but she also  fails to get a response we helped your brother   and we got some help too that's what we want  to do for you CU we want to get you some help too we are safe we will not hurt you and we  won't do anything to hurt you you don't want   to talk okay there's nothing at all you want to  talk about all it's okay talk to me Eve is then   brought some food and it's placed in front of  her and for several minutes she still doesn't   move she's staring at the food as if it's some  kind of cruel joke or some kind of vicious Ploy   and the second she reaches out for it she would  be punished she won't eat the food even though   she's hungry now after I think 10 or 15 minutes  Eve did end up eating and she ate an entire pan   pizza and then she ate half of a large pizza  and eventually she allowed First Responders   to bring her to the ambulance 4 hours after after  they'd found her in the closet that's how nervous   and scared and distrustful Eve was that's how  mentally broken She was That's how little she   believed the word of any adult at this point 4  hours she sat there without saying a word before   allowing herself to be removed from that house of  horrors and even then I'm not sure if she started   talking started opening up I really think about  Russell and Eve because this is so much of the   focus is on them and so much of you know what  we're talking about right now is about them but   once again we're going to start talking about ruby  and Jodie and Kevin and these two kids are going   to get a little bit lost in the narrative that  we're going to that we're going to discuss for   the rest of this video I think about them and  I hope that they're doing okay now I hope that   they've had therapy and have had the chance  to heal and have started building themselves   back up and allowing trusted adults to help them  build themselves back up meanwhile outside the   house the Ivan's house jod Hill debrandt is still  clutching her pearls and pretending she has a leg   to stand on a police officer who was searching the  house he approached her he asked her if you know   she was still on the phone with her lawyer before  telling her that they' found a room in her house   that they couldn't access so they were going to  start the process of getting a search warrant for   that room body cam footage shows that this room  is actually more of a I guess closet like a large   closet it's the size of a large walk-in closet and  it's hidden behind what looks like a safe door as   in a gun safe or a bank safe door and as of now I  would say it's unclear whether this room was used   to hold Eve and or Russell in however we can hear  the police talking about it and an officer on the   scanner directs the other law enforcement agents  to this room saying quote he said it's downstairs   under one of the garages and he's calling it a  safe room he said something about Fort Knox end   quote so if the he that this police officer is  referring to is Jody's 12-year-old son Russell   then it makes sense that the children were either  locked inside of this room at some point or they   were shown the room as a scare tactic to make them  behave so this $3.5 million desert home in Ivans   was built to jod hildebrand's specifications and  that safe room is located in the basement beneath   the garage the outside of the door looks like you  might need a PIN code to access it and in side   there's a room that's pretty much empty besides  a few pieces of furniture there's a Murphy bed   which is like a foldout bed there's some cabinets  a microwave toilet an empty refrigerator a sink   and some cleaning supplies honestly when I first  saw it I said this kind of looks like the braak   like a Brak room at at your job so let's say  you work at Walmart or something and you have   a break room it kind of looked like that you know  there's cabinets and a sink a countertop a little   refrigerator a microwave and then obviously  the bed wouldn't be in a break room I guess   depends what what kind of job you had but and  then the bed so inside the cabinet in a bottom   drawer police located a long strand of rope with  knots and tied to one end there were thick metal   chains linked to a set of handcuffs we're hearing  from a former FBI agent who says it's likely the   children were held in that Vault um you know I  think we expected that's safe to be open and it   to me it looked like uh closet gun safe basically  is what I was expecting sort of on the other side   of that lots of people have them particularly in  the basements of their homes to hold long rifles   and multiple weapons and those kinds of things  I did not expect to see a full sterile room um   I guess on the other side of it um and not just  a full room but a room equipped with plumbing   kitchen running water um and a bed Walder called  the room itself unusual no I mean I wouldn't say   it's common to have a safe like this they're very  expensive actually they're not you know cheap safe   so it's it's typically a Flor to ceiling safe  like that I wouldn't say it's the most common   type of safe I have a safe in my home and it's  not that but I've seen them before to hold you   know weapons mostly um but I think safe rooms  depending on where you live are not necessarily   un common I live in Tornado Alley and people do  have them but they're not rooms that are designed   like that which is designed to I guess sustain  life uh for prolonged periods of time you know   in safe rooms and homes from tornadoes weather  those kinds of things they're just designed for   you to be in there for a matter of hours to stay  safe and then emerge this had full support of   life in it basically um for however long uh was  intended you know like I said running water uh   bathroom facilities a bed a refrigerator that is  for someone who is planning to live there over a   prol longest period of time and that is highly  unusual they go through all of these drawers   and cupboards and things and most of them are  empty why is it that most of them wouldn't have   anything inside of them well obviously there's  two explanations for that in my opinion I think   the first is that maybe it hadn't been used  um in quite some time but I also think too   if this was designed as a form of punishment  um they're going to have the bare minimum in   terms of Essentials in there this isn't a time  for someone to eat the food that they want um   and be able to do the things that they want in  terms of entertainment so I I think that that   might be why as well so at first I was like well  maybe the kids weren't held in this room maybe   this is a sort of um like a safe room a Panic  Room you know jod and Ruby are super religious   they might believe in the Rapture the apocalypse  something like that maybe they have this room to   go into but then why was the refrigerator empty  why was there no food in there why uh were the   cabinets empty no food in there why was there  a set of handcuffs attached to metal chains if   I'm looking at this objectively and I'm looking  at it with the details of what was happening to   those kids in that house they probably were put  in that room but I guess only time will tell now   at the same time that jod hilderbrand was being  arrested Ruby Frankie was receiving a visit from   law enforcement and her behavior is so bizarre I  just can't figure out what her plan was like what   what is what is your end goal here what is your  hope to achieve from this situation because Ruby   says nothing to the police not one word and she  does this throughout every step of being arrested   questioned transferred to jail and processed  okay place your hands on your back for me perfect and then right now I can put a finger in  each of these okay and I'm just going to double   off those so they don't tighten up on you on  the way out there um you don't have anything on   you that I should know about correct any weapons  anything that we're going to find before you put   you in a police vehicle we need to search your  person to make sure you don't have anything on   you is there anything you have on you okay I'm  going to search you before we put you in his car   that's just protocol so I'm just going to have you  step right over here and then just widen your legs   widen your stance yep perfect are you wearing a  bra okay I'm just going to go like this through   and make sure you don't have anything you said  you're not wearing bra okay all right you're just   going to walk with officer hind go out this way  and then you want to go this way or that way yeah okay and then if you want to go down the  downstairs into the interview room downstairs   sounds good you going down or I'm going down  I could show you all the clips where Ruby is   not talking to the police officers even though  they're directing questions at her cuz there's   a lot of them and at one point one police officer  kind of he's like laughing a little bit cuz he's   he's so ridiculous he doesn't know what to  do and he's like I just need to make sure   there's nothing wrong with you like medically  or mentally and at that point you know she's   like no I'm fine or she just nods or something  and she acknowledges him so at least we know she   can hear him but she just does doesn't talk to  them doesn't answer any of their questions B you   want to let you know what your what criminal  charges for so you're under arrest it's going   to be two counts second degree felony of child  abuse or neglect okay do you understand that or no are you okay I'm wondering if there's  like a medical clearance that needs to   like do do you need medical attention before  you go to the jail no okay and during Ruby's   police interview she also had literally  nothing to say we're just here to talk to   you about kind of a few things involving your  kids so first are you do you live down here or or do you live up north do you want to talk to me about  where you live or how many kids you have so we just spoke with your  husband and he said you guys have   six kids are those all together are those all your kids I can wait all day so it's up to you  if you want to talk to us about what's going on would you feel more comfortable  talking to one of us may you want   me to I can step out if you want or  if you feel more comfortable talking   to him I can step out I'll wait till  I have a lawyer okay so talk this at all so yeah this this is just your  chance to tell us we're just trying   to get your side of the story um um so it's  your chance to do that but it's up to you to talk and I mean I'm not asking any crey  questions if you don't want to talk to   us just let us know and we will we'll be  done I've already told you that you want   a loer okay okay okay easy enough thank  you is there anything else I can get for   we okay I got the water do you need a  bathroom break or anything like that no okay but jod hildbrandt was much more chatty  during her police interview which is going   to give us more material to discuss I'm a little  nervous you're that's you know to be honest with   you if I was sitting over there I'd be a little  nerv too so don't don't worry about it we're   just here to talk to get your side and right now  we're just asking you do you want to talk to me   about where you live here how many kids you have  I watch you made detective movies how yeah which   one's your favorite so we just spoke with honestly  kids I I sit there wife and I say you were kids   that's not how we do it that's not right so don't  take there's some good ones out there don't get   me wrong but most of them are probably I can  wait all day not as me it's up to you if you   want to talk to us about what's going on we just  want to get to know you a little so if you just   kind of want to share a little about yourself  and what brought you down would you feel more   comfortable talking to one of us so I trust my  attorney said don't say anything I said I have   nothing to comfortable talking to him step so you  guys seem nice people yeah not at all difficult   this is really if you knew all the pieces I think  you'd have a lot of empy for what's going on what   we're that's what we're looking for and you're an  adult and the thing about our interview if we ask   you any questions that you don't want to answer  you can just tell us I don't want to answer that   question but we do want to have a basis and an  understanding of what's going on in that home   or what went on up north that brought them into  your home want to share any of that answer any   other questions that's okay I'd like to just tell  you but I don't I don't know who you are I don't   know if you're going to flip my words I don't  know and that's the good thing about cameras   everything it's pretty much double recorded  audio video and it's for the safety for you   and for us because we don't want to flip your  words and this will all be pretty much right   there to support you so we're not going to use  anything against you be so insistent that he's   an honest good you want man goes to church  I trust him would he say that to me thank you well I'm just saying he's a good honest  man and I'm an honest person as well so we   get along great and he just said do not say  anything maybe just as an attorney they just   they always say that they always want to be  with their client I'm not sure but like I   said at anytime if you don't want to answer  a question you don't have to so the ball's   really in your court on what you do want to  answer and what you don't so well I think   it it looks F that I don't want to answer  anything but it's not because I'm trying   to be difficult I'm really hanging on what he  told me to do MH yeah who's your attorney Adam Adam Adam his father's an attorney  his brother's an attorney is he local yeah the street of the town hall is they all the  same name it's funny because jod says she trusts   her attorney he's a good man a churchgoing man  honest honest like she is right she's like that's   why we get along because we're both so honest yeah  you're honest you're honest all right so she's got   all these great things to say about him but she  actually couldn't tell you what his name is okay   she just knows he's a good man cuz he's honest and  he goes to church but what what's his name what do   you need to know that for why do I need to know  his name to know he's a good honest churchgoing   man the whole reason we're s here today is we  just we there's a lot of questions we have that   we just maybe misunderstandings that we just need  clarify and I know and I'd love to tell you if he   were here because I don't know I I don't I don't  know what's going to happen with what I say you   know I I watched I'm a psychologist I've watched  people flip things all the time so I get it I I   sit on your side I get it I wish people didn't do  that but they do I love Jody's tactic here because   she's trying to relate to the police officers  she's playing the whole I'm a good person and   I'd love to be cooperative card but I'm also a  smart person a psychologist I'm just like you   officer I've been where you are I've been on the  other side of at this table I know how easy it is   to twist someone's Words which is funny because  she does twist people's words she twists people's   minds up you know we're going to figure that out  when when we hear from Kevin Frankie but she's   basically telling on herself and people like this  will tell on themselves if you give them enough   rope to hang themselves they will and she's saying  I've been where you're sitting now I know how easy   it is to twist words I know how easy it is to  misrepresent present what the person across from   you is saying and it's giving superiority complex  it's giving I'm a nice white woman with money and   an education and I don't belong here well how did  I get here I should be on the other side of the   table with you I have no idea how I got here but  trust me trust me if this were a perfect world and   you knew everything that I knew we wouldn't be  in the situation you'd understand exactly why I   did what I did it's so manipulative and so it's  very cold overt manipulation it's very clear to   tell what she's doing because we know what she  did and we know who she is and we played clips   of her and Ruby talking in circles in the first  video that we did on eight passengers and Ruby   Frankie so we just know these are her tactics but  if you're dealing with somebody like this for the   first time you can sometimes be thrown off and  you can sometimes feel like wow they're saying   this with such confidence they're saying this  with such Authority she seems like a nice lady   she seems intelligent she's well spoken she  seems to want to cooperate you know she seems   like she thinks we're nice she's nice what's  going on here you may be taken in initially if   you don't know everything that's going on beneath  the surface well if you're not willing to answer   any of the questions about yourself would you  be willing to answer any questions maybe about   Ruby or Kevin that you could help us understand  we just honestly want to understand what what   their Dynamic is what happened to the children  what caused their separation and after talking   to Kevin it sounds like you know a lot about  their Dynamic and their relationship so if you   could help us understand that at the least that  would be awesome and that's nothing incriminating   towards yourself because it's not pertaining  to you so if you could help us understand that Jody we're we're going to do this youve asked  for your attorney we'll we'll leave it with that   we'd like to maybe talk to you later when you  have your attorney here present absolutely and   and we'll go made an appointment at 4 on Friday an  appointment here with here at 4 he talked to the   to the officer okay and said can we make a time  and he said out loud do not talk to them yeah   okay we uh I I'll talk and see if we can schedule  that and maybe that's just something we we just   do with your okay do you have any questions for us  or anything you can answer in the meantime no okay   no all right appreciate your time we'll uh have  you hang tight in here and then we'll come back   and get you and we'll be on our way okay like I  said Jody's acting as if she would love to talk   to the police she would love to she would love to  tell them everything cuz then they'll understand   you know and it's frustrating for her that because  of her lawyer's advice she's unable to once again   this is manipulation in case any of you didn't  recognize it but you're all smart people maybe   not as smart as jod hilderbrand but smart all  the same so I'm sure you did pick up on it now   we're going to move into the police interview  with Kevin Frankie and he sat down with the   Santa Clara Ivan's Police Department on August  30th 2023 and it's a doozy for the life of me   I cannot figure out if he was complicit in what  happened to his kids or if he was brainwashed by   the Jodie and Ruby cult or if he's just a weak man  who was offered a way to not carry the day-to-day   responsibilities of caring for his children and  he took it and never looked back we're just going   to kind of ask you a few questions about your  involvement okay what's a good address for you   uh my well I'm not comfortable giving my address  right now okay but you do live in Springville I   do how long have you lived in Springville for um  I moved there in 2007 with my family so 17 years   17 and how many kids do you have Kevin I have six  kids I can't remember some of them are teenagers   two adults so are they all living with you or no  I haven't seen them for over a year any of them   no none of them for a year for a year so listen  to what Kevin's saying Kevin says he hasn't seen   a single one of his children for over a year and  even the detective is having a hard time wrapping   her head around that one she had to repeat it to  make sure she heard right you haven't seen your   children for a year there's really no legitimate  reason that a father or a mother for that matter   should go any extended period of time without  seeing their children unless that parent has been   found to be a danger to the child and in that case  there would be a court order reflecting that but   according to Kevin Frankie it wasn't a judge or a  law enforcement official who told him he couldn't   see his children it was his own wife I've been in  a separation from from my wife and family what's   your wife's name Ruby Ruby when's the last time  saw Ruby the last time I saw her yeah was um the   18th of of this month we met to she requested  me to sign over vehicles or the titles to the   vehicles the vehicle that she drives we're all  in my name when's the last time you physically   saw russler eeve um the day that I moved out July  24th 2020 2 2 24th of 2022 or July 25th July 25   so it's my understanding that that at least home  here in in K and Ivans have you been to that home   no you've not been to that home no I don't know I  don't know what anything that's been going on like   this is good man like I would love to be able  to help you out with this and like I'm seeing   light of being thisel cuz I'm I'm unaware of your  involvement in in what's really going on so for   you to say that you're unaware of the status of  your kids kind of makes I know that sounds kind   of crummy to you but it sounds kind of good to  me like who lives in that home with your is it   ex-wife is it currently a separated wife like who  lives in that home with your children to be honest   I don't know I I know that she's there with um  four of the children and our two older children   has moved out they're they're not at your home in  Springville uh and I'm not trying to trip you up I   can see your hesitant to talk to me I understand  that well where where I live no I haven't seen   them for over a year okay that's tough I can only  imagine how that feels man I got kids and not   seen for that long that that terrible piece of my  heart out the male detective is funny too because   he's like you know to hear you say you have no  idea what's going on with your kids well that   sounds really horrible but if it is true at least  it means you didn't have an active part in what   was happening to them you know like silver lining  the detective is trying to find the silver lining   to Kevin being you know kind of a bad father in  this situation and Kevin says that his wife Ruby   who he has seen as recently as that same month  she lives with their four younger children while   the two older children have moved out moved out  moved out another way to say they escaped and ran   for their lives I guess now obviously we know that  Eve and Russell were at jod hilderbrand's home in   Ivans but Kevin seems to think that the two older  children were also living with Ruby his wife and   they would have been with Ruby wherever she was  but that that's not the case cuz according to   documents um the Utah Division of Child and Family  Services first requested that the Springville   police search for Ruby's two middle daughters at  the Frankie home on the afternoon of August 30th   because the authorities couldn't find these two  other children anywhere and Ruby was playing mute   so she wasn't telling anyone their location and  officers spent several minutes outside of Ruby's   house knocking on the door but no one answered  and they said the home's windows were covered by   blinds and curtains so they couldn't see inside  after getting a warrant police broke through the   front door but they found the house empty the  oldest Frankie child Sherry she arrived at the   home home of a neighbor while all of this was  going down and remember that Sherry was the one   who's been screaming from the rooftops for years  that something's going on in her family something   that was dark and nefarious was going on with the  Frankie family because in September of 2022 Sherry   had called the Springville police Springville is  where Ruby Frankie lived that's where her house   was located and Sherry had asked them to check on  her four younger siblings who were still in the   home with their mother that was when Ruby had left  her children alone for days on end and neighbors   reported that the kids would usually hide in the  house but they would sometimes walk around outside   looking for companionship and human connection but  they were always alone they were unmonitored the   police had gone to the house at that time but no  one answered the door then either however remember   the police reported they could see in through the  windows and they saw the kids run upstairs with   a phone most likely calling their mother so on  August 30th 2023 Sherry helped police search for   the two missing children her two sisters and she  told the police that one of her sisters might be   at a nearby Recreation Center so when the police  contacted this establishment they were told that   there there had been a family emergency and the  girl had been picked up police also checked the   apartment of the oldest Frankie son Chad who was  18 and living in Provo Utah at that time but the   girls weren't there and Chad didn't want to talk  to law enforcement honestly this kid this poor   kid probably just wants to move on with his life  and forget that he ever knew um his parents and   forget forget that eight passengers ever existed  honestly so the girls the two missing Daughters   of Ruby and Kevin Frankie they were eventually  found 250 Mi away from Ruby's Springville home   in a place called American Fork and they were in  the care of a woman who'd picked them up from that   recreation center and this woman was a friend  of rubies but also a colleague at conion now   this woman told the police that Ruby had contacted  her around noon and asked her to pick up the girls   and this woman also said it wasn't an request for  her to be asked to bring the girls home with her   because she often did this and when she brought  the girls home with her they would do housework   and chores at her house so Ruby was literally and  actually trafficking her own children loaning them   out to her employees attacked as little unpaid  Maids I it's really hard it's hard to believe   that somebody would willingly become a parent and  then treat their most precious resources their   children like this so the girls were spoken to  on the front porch of This Woman's home and DCFS   told them they were going to go with their sister  Sherry for a bit but the girls said they wanted to   remain with the woman who had picked them up now  clearly in my opinion these two children have been   brainwashed they've been told terrible things  about their sister they've been told terrible   things about the police law enforcement they've  been told terrible things about anyone who didn't   follow and preach the Conan's mission statement  of endorsing and encouraging child abuse in all   of its forms because because when a police officer  and a DCFS agent tried to search one of the girls   book bags she got upset she became defiant the  police report said and told them that they would   need a warrant to do that so I mean sounds like  Jodie and probably also Ruby if she'd opened her   mouth and said two words when the police were  there now Kevin Frankie can sit here and act   like he's innocent and that he stayed away from  his wife and kids because they were better off   without him but I don't think he's as innocent  as he Pro claims to be because 2 days after his   daughter Sherry helped police find her sisters  he attempted to get her arrested his own daughter   claiming she'd broken into the Springville home  and that she wasn't supposed to be there Kevin   aren't you not supposed to be there like do you  you don't live there anymore dude you haven't seen   your kids in a year you haven't been in that  house in a year so who are you to talk about   this and remember this is after Kevin's already  been interviewed by police after he's been told   that his children are in protective custody  because they've been abused you'd think he'd   be trying to mend fences with his children you  know apologize to them for being negligent for   letting their mother treat them the way that she  did but instead he's trying to have his daughter   Sherry arrested and charged with burglary Kevin  told police that he believed the house had been   broken into because the door had been kicked in  and several Electronics were missing and he said   these Electronics contained his journals he told  the police that he suspected Sher was responsible   because she'd made an unspecified court hearing  that day the police were like no dude your   20-year-old daughter didn't kick down the front  door of your house the police did you know when we   were trying to save your children from the abuse  you let their mother put on them constantly day   in and day out but Kevin Frankie would not be  deterred because when the police told him Sher   had been inside the home on August 31st to get a  few belongings for her sisters Kevin said Sherry   wasn't allowed to be there he felt she had entered  unlawfully and he wanted her arrested and charged   with burglary the police documents state that the  officers once again told Kevin that Sherry had   been given permission Allowed by law enforcement  to go into the house to retrieve necessary items   for her sister but Kevin Frankie quote did not  seem to think it was relevant end quote so Kevin   made the police contact Sherry and have her return  the items which included pass sports for Ruby for   Kevin and for Chad Sherry's 18-year-old brother  along with three tablets three cell phones three   cameras and a stack of written journals now am  I going to say that the passports of Ruby and   Kevin Frankie were necessary for sher's two  young sisters no obviously not but I think in   Sherry's head she's considering what are these  people capable of like what have they already   done what are they capable of she's lived with  her parents for almost her entire life she knows   what they're capable of or at least she knows the  depths they can sync to so maybe she's thinking I   want to take my mother and father's passports so  they cannot make off with the children that are   still in their care so they can't um you know  leave and and Escape responsibility and the   repercussions for what they've done Sher told the  police that she didn't intend to take the items to   deprive her father of them and the police told  Kevin that they would not be recommending that   any charges be filed against Sherry and according  to the police reports quote Kevin was displeased   with this answer and advised we would be hearing  from his attorney end quote I I love it man these   people are these people hide behind their lawyers  always bad people hide behind their lawyers they   and I mean obviously innocent people do too but  we know that Ruby and Kevin aren't aren't fully or   wholly innocent in any way shape or form what I'm  curious about is what was in those journals that   Kevin Frankie didn't want anyone to see that's the  question I want answered and I hope that if Sher   did read them she made copies or took pictures  of any relevant or damning entries that suggested   Kevin might have known what was happening with  his children now let's go back to Kevin Frankie's   police interview which happened just days before  all of this went down like I said just a few days   before he's trying to have his daughter arrested  he's sitting in there being like I just want my   family back I just love them so much oh I miss  them I want to be a good father I have a picture   of them in my office and I work hard for them  every day so anyways Kevin claims he got a message   telling him to come get his kids from the police  station in Ivan Utah and he says he would prefer   to not answer the question of who it was that  reached out to him like I said I don't I know   nothing that's going on their lives or anything  going on how did you find out that you needed to   come here at 55 North m I received a message that  I needed to come pick up my kids from the police   department in hi and who is that message from uh  well I prefer not to say it right now it would   just help us a lot I'll try to figure out who  reached out to you because it makes sense that   that would happen I'm just not aware of anyone who  did that from our department right and and I'm not   comfortable saying right now who reached out to me  okay okay so you haven't seen any of your kids in   over a year you said that's correct and then well  the last time you saw her how old is she me 15 she   16 okay and then when all the kids left Ruby took  all of them oh yes she stayed in the house and I   moved out okay and did you ever try to reach out  to the kids drop by the home or no was there I   honored the no separation boundary that we agreed  to so what was your separation excuse me did you   have a no contact order in place order no this was  between my wife and I so what did Ruby ask of you   when you separated what did she ask of me did she  ask you not to contact the kids Ruby invited me   to leave the home MH while I um thought about the  the choices that I've made in my life and the way   that I've treated her okay and so I left why can  he not answer a question directly Kevin's asked   if Ruby asked him to not see the kids and have  no contact with the kids and he says that he was   invited to leave the home and think about the way  he had treated his wife and he's going to say this   a lot it's weird I was invited to leave the home  it's so bizarre he could have said she removed   me he could have said she kicked me out he could  have said she asked me to leave and I respected   her request or she asked me to leave and so not  to make a scene in front of the children who   I love I did but then I wasn't allowed back and  I couldn't see my children he could have said a   million things but instead he says I was invited  to leave the home it goes back to this tendency   that Kevin Frankie and anyone affiliated with  Ruby and jod have of talking in circles and not   giving straight answers to straight ra questions  and how long had you and Ruby been married before   we were married in 2000 so about 22 years when we  separated we were going on 22 years yes okay and   during your marriage how was how was disciplining  your kids how would you discipline your kids um yeah I'm not going to answer that question  okay that's fine so Kevin doesn't want to say how   he would discipline the kids because he knows that  even when he lived in that house and even when   they were filming daily content for the eight  passengers YouTube channel those kids weren't   being treated well have you been since separated  or since they lived here in the city of iance um   Have you communicated with your wife regarding  like discipline with your kids or their care or   their physical wellbeing yeah so she doing this on  her own and just telling how your kids are she's   not telling me anything about the kids Kevin said  that not only is he not able to see the kids but   Ruby wasn't even telling him anything about their  health and well-being and you tell me what kind of   father would accept that and be okay with that for  a month much less a year who's this who's this uh   female Jodie that your wife lives with do you do  you know a female named Jodie she is a a therapist   and a life coach I know and she's do you respect  her uh do I respect her yeah I think she's a very   honest beauiful person yes okay remember what he  says about jod during this interview because he   says that he respects her he says that she's a  very honest truthful person at this time at the   end of August after jod and Ruby are arrested and  Kevin realizes that something's going on with his   kids that they've been abused he doesn't seem to  have any issues with jod hilderbrand he respects   her she's a very honest and truthful person you  place value on Jodie I don't know what that means   like do you do you you value what she says and and  how she treats your wife a client of hers is your   wife a partner of hers is your wife a roommate  with her your kids are living in her house is   what I'm trying to say I'm not aware of that but  I know but they've been in business for the last   year filming who's day Ruby and Jodie they film  they film podcasts and so every week a podcast   goes up and I listen to it what's the name of it  connections with an ex I'm sorry sir but that is   not how you pronounce it it's connection get it  right and like do you support them in that role   and do doing that and having do I support them in  the business yeah like do do you support them and   think that what they're doing is a good thing or  I support their business efforts I think it's a   good thing are you involved with their business  efforts or no okay so just Ruby and Jody no in   the business yeah yes okay and were you involved  in the eight passengers account with your family   um yes I I was in the videos and that's what  you mean I briefly learned about this two hours   ago so did Ruby moreo do the videos for the  family mhm and how long did you guys do that for uh she started the channel in 2015 and as far as as I'm aware from the time I  left the last video she uploaded was Wards the   end of 2021 okay and I but again I'm not aware of  anything she's done since our separation I don't   visit fa passengers anymore chapter of your life  that's gone it it it's a past chapter yeah oh oh   Kevin wasn't that involved in the eight passengers  YouTube channel he was just in the videos but he   certainly was involved in collecting the checks  that came in he would now prefer to forget that   eight passengers ever existed I'm sure you  would I'm sure we all would I'm sure that   you you very much regret displaying your abusive  Behavior to your children to the world because   you literally thought you were doing nothing  wrong like Ruby and Kevin treated their children   horribly withheld food taunted them tormented  them made them wouldn't let them have beds and   they really legitimately put that [ __ ] on the  internet and thought people are going to praise   us they're going to be like wow this is a whole  new game a whole new ball game of how to parent   none of us are going to have misbehaved children  ever again now that we have eight passengers to   teach us how to abuse our children into submission  they literally thought that the world was going   to see their parenting style and say mind  blown okay this is the only way to parent   kids from now on when you guys had the previous  eight passengers YouTube channel you has got a   lot of heat for neglect and child abuse a lot  of people commented those things on there why   were they commenting those things that's a good  question um we uh we had a son who was acting out   in very selfish behavior this Chad or yes that's  was Chad and you know none of this is strange or   odd you could get on YouTube and find out all  sorts of stuff on this [ __ ] a double sword   the question is what do you believe right there  basically it boils down to he was being um very   cruel and mean to his siblings that he shared  a room with and so we removed him from the room   and we said you can sleep anywhere you want  sleep on the couch sleep on the pull out bit   sleep on the floor for all we care but you're  not sleeping in that room with your brother who um he chose to sleep on a bean bag so 9 months  later he had made a lot of changes in his life and   he was ready to and we had moved by that time and  so we had a new house and he was ready to move   into his own bedroom made a video about it and in  the video you mentioned something of the effect   of I've been sleeping for 9 months on a bean  bag okay that is what all the Uproar was about   so it's all Chad's fa by the way that the eight  passengers YouTube channel got heat and then they   got demonetized and lost sponsors and uh lost 90%  of their income it's all Chad's fault and remember   it was because Chad was being cruel to his brother  Chad was not being cruel to his brother he played   an innocent prank on his brother I think he  said they were like going to Disneyland and   then he was like psych we're not what that's not  cruel I mean is it nice no but they're Brothers   this is what they do my children are doing that  to each other all the time I'm not telling my   son oh you're teasing your little sister well no  bed for you buddy what you don't teach somebody   to not be cruel by being cruel to them and by  the way it wasn't just the bean bag story that   brought negative comments to a passengers YouTube  content this is Ken minimizing what happened to   his children he's minimizing it he's being  manipulative in his own way here he's like I   don't understand like you know it was just he had  to sleep on a bean bag like we didn't even make   him sleep on the bean bag we told him he could  sleep anywhere and he chose the bean bag we just   told him he couldn't sleep in his bed like what's  the big deal it was not just that Kevin and you   very well know it it was the Brazen admittances  of withholding food from their children and so   much more it was Ruby Frankie holding a beloved  uh stuffed animal in front of her young daughter   and saying like I'm going to destroy the stuffed  animal because of something you did that was wrong   the cruelness came from Ruby Frankie and no one  else probably Kevin too I don't know allegedly   don't come for me allegedly I think he he just he  played his part in it while he was living there he   didn't stop her but luckily Jody hildbrandt the  good and the honest jod hildbrandt she was there   to sat Chad straight and even help with Kevin and  Ruby's marriage she's a jack of all trades was   that part of your guys's reason for separation  after you guys ended eight passengers uh was   that part of the reason um the the reasons are  because of of ways that I treated my wife and um and some um of my own addictions   that I was working through and  seeking help on with um with uh pornography thank you for sharing that and i' yeah  I've made some wonderful progress like is that   something you came to the realization that you  needed help and weren't doing things right or that   something that like Jody helped you guys recognize  that maybe Ruby needed more I'm trying to   understand her involvement in your guys's life um  she's my focus I just be honest I understand and   I I can perceive that um jod and Ruby have a um a  close relationship and and Jody saw the need for   me to get help and um frankly I agree I the space  um has been exactly what I need to face you know   my own um addictions and and receive the support  and help that I've have needed and so this space   has been um very very good for me MH so when you  uh stated that you and Ruby had this no contact   that you guys just verbally agreed upon was that  an idea given by Jodie that she recommended you   guys have that space and not contact one another  I'm not aware of that it the the invitation for me   to leave and take space was from my wife but  that was while jod and Ruby were friends and   collaborating and doing podcasts and sure so this  is where I do start to feel like Kevin may have   been brainwashed or mentally abused to an extent  and to the extent where he was being told so often   that it it was better for him to be away from his  family and work on his addictions that he came to   believe it that's what happened to his children  right that's what happened to even Russell however   Kevin is a grown man and is going to have a little  bit more mental dexterity to sort of maneuver   his way around that but I will also admit that  any person especially when the abuse is coming   from somebody that you love any person can be  susceptible to this I've I've been susceptible to   this I would be told terrible things about myself  by my partner and I would not believe them at   first i''d be like no I definitely don't do that  and no I definitely don't feel that way and I'm   definitely I'm not like that but it would happen  so often and finally I would say to myself well   it must be true cuz let me look at the the facts  here right the facts are this person loves me and   the facts are this person is saying this stuff  about me and the facts are that he lives with me   he knows me better than anyone why would he tell  me these things about myself if they weren't true   he loves me he wants the best for me he wants me  to be the best I can be you will drive yourself   crazy or be driven crazy and you'll start to think  that you are this horrible person that the person   you love and Trust has made you out to be so the  detectives finally kind of let Kevin in on what's   been happening to his two youngest children and  and he has a weird response so I don't recall   the exact time but sometime before 11:00 today we  received uh a phone call from 911 on our dispatch   that uh a 12 to 13-year-old boy was knocking  on doors in a neighborhood asking for food and   water that he was severely emaciated that he had  what is iated me skinny scrawny malnutritioned   not enough food not enough water to sustain life  so he had I'm sorry what he had duct tape on his   extremities on his hands on his ankles and those  were covering rope Burns that were used to tie him down take a second and think about what  I just said that's the condition of your son given that information your son was  taken to the hospital a warrant has been   applied and granted by the Department  of Child and Family Services so no   one right now is going to have access  to these two children based on their   physical condition do you understand that  I understand do you would you condone that behavior would I condone that behavior I guess  I just don't understand how the question would   you condone that behavior would be so difficult  for Kevin to understand so difficult for him to   process that he has to repeat it would I condone  this Behavior instead of just immediately saying   no of course not they're children I don't condone  this Behavior and pay attention because Kevin   never asks if his two youngest children are okay  at least to to what I could hear I watched the   whole 45-minute interview he does not ask about  them he doesn't inquire about their condition he   doesn't say can I see them can I give them a hug  can I at least talk to them on the phone let them   know I love them he hasn't seen his kids in over  a year and he's being told that they're in bad   condition hospitalized he doesn't say oh my God  are they all right is there anything I can do can   I at least talk to them hear their voices let  them hear my voice Comfort them he doesn't say   that but he does seem very concerned about his  wife Ruby that's my job my job is to find out   your knowledge of the treatment of these these  based on description no but again I don't know   the details or I don't know what's going on but  as you describe that that sounds horri horrible   disgusting no human being should be treated like  that I yeah okay that's my thoughts but again we   might be different on that um sorry sorry the  clip's not done but I had to cut in again no   human should be treated this way it's disgusting  objectively a true statement and Kevin's response   okay yeah what o we're going to let sit here  for a second okay we're going to go out and   talk um I'm not saying you're you're still not  free to go are you underr absolutely Ely not   we just have lots of questions that we need to  figure out Lots okay okay because your children   are under medical care right now and what does  that mean it means that you don't have access   to my understanding is that they are what is  that they're in the custody of DCFS and they   will be for the next 7 there's a medical hold  on them right now so for at least the next 72   hours based on our understanding at at least the  next seven years during observation you're being   watched DCFS is going to provide you that  information and they can better answer your   questions along those lines that's handled  through them what's going to happen it's my   wife I love my wife I don't know I'm being honest  with you I don't know had charges against my wife possibly I think given the circumstances that's  highly appropriate but again I don't know your   wife I was hoping to gain some insight from  you but I don't necessarily know that that's   something you wanted to I trust her a road  you wanted to travel down with me so and not   without legal representation yeah all right  I get it and I love that wife and I trust   that wife and so I mean this feels like getting  over by a steam truck while you're sharing with   me today yeah you I can tell you're caught  off car I thought I was just coming here to   pick up my kids for what I don't know what or  why but and I was finally out taking them back   with me and just I me i' love to have a candid  conversation with you I just don't know how it's   going to be received by you I don't know you  but I can tell you my perception of how this happened well I interest look I'm interested  in facts but again at the same time I'm I'm I'm interested in all the facts but you  understand our facts our facts are that you have   a child that is an emaciated malnutrition and  has marks I I didn't spend any time with her   Sergeant toer did did any of you spend time with  her didn't spend I have not she went to today she   was requested to go to the hospital along the  way folks I don't know what to do like I want to you realize that I have a picture of my family  on my wall and I look at it every day and I work   I work every day he has a picture of his family  on the wall he's passionate about them just not   passionate enough to ask if they're doing okay  okay or to ask if he can see them so I can back   to my family and save my family everything you're  sharing to me just sounds like a madeup story like I I have no idea what you're talking about like it's just it sounds like a horror movie and I get you're all you're  all doing your jobs I get it I understand and this is this is my life I just want my kids I just want my kids I  just want my family okay Chris Watts you didn't   seem to be all that concerned about your kids for  the past year and when I say Chris Watts I don't   mean it in the way of Chris Watts being a murderer  okay don't come for me Kevin Frankie don't uh tell   me I'll be hearing from your attorney I mean it  in the way that when his wife and children went   missing Chris Watts got up in front of the cameras  and he said I just want them back I just want them   back I just want them back and he just kept saying  that over and over again in reality we know what   he did to his pregnant wife and his two daughters  so that's what reminded me of Chris Watts and I   stand by that statement I don't care I stand by  it I I don't know what's going on I don't know   why these things that you described happen I I  don't know it's almost like I want to say I'm   sorry you must have somebody else because it's  like am am I in the right conference room here that's what like it's real you know I have an hard  time accepting this and dealing with this I mean   you're telling me that you're taking my kids  for me is he for real your wife took your kids   away from you dude for a year and you didn't say  boo now law enforcement's protecting them caring   for them healing them and you're scandalized you  just can't believe this it's like a horror movie   he's stunned he's like he can't even speak it's  a horror movie it's like this isn't real imagine   how much it felt like a horror movie to Eve and  Russell for the past months you know the kids   you still haven't asked about you dick I've had no  reason to believe or think that there was anything   going on for all intents and purposes I woke up  this morning looking at the picture of my family   and making my commitment today as I do every day  that I'm going to live an honest a virtuous and a   responsible life today and what you're sharing  with me just feels like a sucker punch like I just um I don't know what my plan I  plan to go to God sure and I figure   this out right and um I am just heart  what you all are sharing with me and um I just I feel like I feel responsible SE it hurts I wish I was a better husband Sarah  again Kevin's focused on how he's feeling he's   overwhelmed he's confused he's hurt he says  he wishes he was a better husband not a better   father he's still focused on himself and Ruby his  wife who he's just been told has been abusing his   children so this guy is either brainwashed to the  nines or he's just as bad a person as Ruby Frankie   and jod hildbrand are Kevin Frankie is going to  talk to the police again and this happened on   on an undisclosed date but at this time his tune  changed so keep in mind from the first interview   to the second he's had time to contemplate he's  had time to talk to his lawyer he's had time to   get legal advice and he's had time to figure out  how to distance himself from the situation as much   as possible so what he's going to say in this  interview I'm sure it's all true I'm sure it's   all true but once again I have to keep in mind  that during his first interview for me like the   spell would be broken once you hear that your  children have been harmed physically mentally   emotionally in every way any brainwashing that you  have on you it would be shattered at that point at   least it would start to crack but it took Kevin  a little time for his tune to change now in the   second interview jod hildbrandt was no longer  an honest good person that he respects in fact   he suggested that she might have had some kind  of Supernatural powers or something or at the   very least she was possessed by an evil spirit  this second interview is actually bananas Kevin   revealed a lot of things that were shocking and  showed just how bad the situation was getting in   the Frankie household and what those kids had to  deal with even before Eve Russell were trapped   in Jody hilderbrand's Ivan's Work Camp let's go  through some of Kevin's claims it's also going to   introduce the religious Val de Bal esque motives  behind what ruby and jod did so let's talk about   what he said Kevin says that there was a couple  he and Ruby know they were called the Hannah and   the Hannah were involved with jod hilderbrand  and concons and they were trying to convince   Ruby to join the connetion organization  Kevin said that connections was focused   on healthy marriages healthy Communications  breaking unhealthy addictions and learning   the difference between lust and love and Ruby  asked him to go with her to a conion conference   in the late summer of 2019 and my impression at  that time was this is this is absolute craziness   this is a bunch of man-hating women that are just  looking for excuses to tear down their husbands   and I mean that's what it felt like to me when I  was in there but it did it was confusing because   there were people that I respected a lot that were  up on the stage with microphones in hand you know   giving testimonials of how great this was and how  it changed their life and their marriage and like   the Hannah were among them you know and and and  so yeah it was confusing in October of 2019 Ruby   and Kevin apparently went to the UK for a trip  with the Hannah and Kevin felt that the whole   objective of this trip was to convince him to  join up with concons in January of 2020 Kevin   agreed to join jod hilderbrand's men's group and  he agreed to participate for three months and he   describes this group as sort of like an an AA  group or like a support group for addiction or   something like that you know it's just like him  and 10 other dudes in a room um talking about   how they've hurt their families and by default  hurt themselves so I started that men's group   in 2020 and you know the group I don't know if  you ever been like an addiction recovery group   and that's what it was that's what it felt like  I mean there were probably 10 men in there was on   Zoom all of them were like working through you  know various stages of like sex addiction porn   addiction um drug addiction and and it was just a  it was like a 12-step group but intended just for   General like addiction recovery and I really  was like what the hell am I doing here like I   don't belong here but everyone's like no come  here like you can learn to have a better like   life and a better marriage and so I I thought  okay whatever so Kevin's like okay I'll do this   for 3 months he did and at the end of his 3-month  period he was challenged to sit down with his wife   and talk to her about how his lustful choices had  affected her negatively and you know to me that   was like a loaded question I thought uh you know  I still didn't see what I had done or anything   that would constitute any form of like you know  abuse or anything like that and um but I did I   I took the challenge and I sat down and for two  hours Ruby very emotionally just shared how she   felt in our marriage and how the things that I um  over 20 years of marriage you know asking for sex   as a husband frequently or um asking her to wear  lingerie or or things like that how that made her   feel and it was really emotional and it touched  like I didn't realize that she felt so strongly   about that that she felt so hurt by that and so I  committed that I would really give it a go and I   stayed in the men's group and so you know in that  men's group I met with Jody every week um with the   other men that were in the group and now Kevin  said that he felt like his marriage with Ruby   was getting better and stronger throughout the  summer and the fall of 2020 and this was right   around the time that they were getting cancelled  on YouTube losing 90% of their income overnight   uh there's a lot of stress happening a lot of you  know online stuff happening I get it when you're a   content creator and people are talking badly about  you online it's hard to not go and look and read   everything they're saying for anybody who is a  content creator I suggest you do not read it most   likely it's not going to be true or it's going to  be misinterpreted or misunderstood by people who   are dead said I'm misunderstanding you so just  don't read it it doesn't matter but apparently   Ruby was like just devouring everything and it was  stressing her out and she was going through a very   hard time so she turned to jod hilderbrand for  emotional support and guidance not her husband but   jod hild debrand so at that time Ruby was really  distraught and she was looking for support she   was looking for someone who would understand her  who who would validate her and she found that in   jod jod all all the stuff she did with Chad was  because of jod and so it makes sense that she   would go to Jodie you know for emotional support  when she felt like her world was burning down in   the meantime like our it felt like our marriage  was was getting stronger it it felt better like   we we didn't fight as much um even though we were  having less sex it it felt more connecting and and   it was just I thought wow this is great like you  know this this is great and I was happy to be the   guy up on the stage you know that started sometime  in like late 2020 or the fall of 2020 there would   be a conference and Ruby would say I thought  we were just attending it but then she'd say   hey they wanted us to get up and tell our story  you know and I'm like oh okay sure so I get up   and and and just say like yeah I was the guy who  said I think this is a bunch of like you know man   hating you know women but it really has made a  difference in my marriage and and I it really   did like I believed it so now Kevin who previously  thought like oh this is just a men hating women's   like organization and they're trying to make us  feel bad now he thinks this whole program might   actually be working and as he bought in more and  more to the connection's promise the Utopia of   a marriage and a family life that jod and this  organization served up to these men on a silver   platter Kevin also became a mouthpiece for the  organization he became the man on stage with the   microphone giving testimonials and saying hey I  thought that this was a joke and I thought that   you know this sucked and it was just not going  to work but I just wanted to save my marriage   but hey it ended up being the best thing we've  ever done and everything went on like this easy   peasy lemon squeezy until March of 2021 so they  were all at a Conan's conference in St George uh   who else went to conferences in St George Lori  and Chad they were all at a Concan conference in   St George Utah and um they went out to lunch with  Jodie afterwards and it was like the Hannah the   Frankies and other people who were being trained  to be mental Fitness coaches like Ruby can you   imagine Ruby Ruby Frankie being a mental Fitness  coach I guess if they say you can't do then you   should teach right but I don't know if it applies  in this situation where you're trying to help   people with their mental Fitness and your mental  Fitness is at an a zero you have zero mental   Fitness so all of these people the basically  the higher ups the the people closest to jod   like her her Apostles you know sitting at either  of her side at the Last Supper they all went out   to lunch with jod and it was there that jod opened  up to the women um in a private conversation Kevin   said and jod told the women that she believed  she was being tormented and haunted by shadow   figures every night and Kevin says you know the  way she described it was terrifying it sounded   creepy so because all of these crazy things were  happening in Jody's house because not only is she   seeing shadow figures but things are moving  by themselves like she's got Poltergeist all   over this joint they're throwing things they're  slamming things in the basement slamming cabinets   shut just harassing her she can't sleep right so  jod needs help she can't stay in her Ian's house   she's got to get out so a few days later the  Hannah remember the couple that Ruby and and   Kevin know they brought jod to live with them  but this only lasted for 6 weeks because they   were hoping to help her allegedly but it didn't  end well and this is where like I don't know what   happened but I do know that there's two different  sides of stories they tried to introduce her to a   new cult lady that the Hannah were getting into  so so they wanted to merge their CTS into one   apparently and um they referred to it as a cult at  the time oh no no no one in a cult says I'm in a c but from your perspective it looks like two cult  leaders mergin together from where I stand now   absolutely according to jod she was held against  her will for six weeks and was kidnapped and she   escaped and got out according to the Hannah after  6 weeks of jod stabbing herself with forks and   knives cutting herself and um wanting to commit  suicide and trying to seduce the husband of the   family they kicked her out I don't know what's the  truth maybe a little bit of both I don't know but   the point is somewhere around mid April jod was  back in her home in Ivans and she was a hot mess   so listen I don't know the Hannah and I really  don't even know jod but it sounds more likely   that the Hannah's version of events is the true  version because why would they keep her hostage   in their house and if they did why didn't she go  to the police you know like why would how why why   would they do that jod you're not that cool okay  people don't want to like lock you up so that they   can be with you and you can't leave them so jod  leaves the Hannah's home she goes back to Ivan's   she's not doing well there everything is still  happening so jod calls Ruby Frankie for help and   this pleased Ruby according to Kevin cuz Ruby  had always been jealous that jod was closer to   the Hannah than jod was to Ruby they had a better  relationship with Jodie than she did Ruby and this   is like goes back to her childhood she wanted  to be the best friend she wanted to be the most   like she wanted to be the the one that everybody  knew and and so it hurt her that she felt like   she was being excluded from what was going on  at the Hannah house and then she'd say why are   so many secrets and the Hannah would say it's not  secret it's sacred and when the time's right you   can know too so Kevin talks about May of 2021  being the first time he'd ever been to Jody's   place in Ivans and it surprised him when he pulled  up because of her house and the land and you know   like how large it was and how expensive everything  looked you know she's got a custom like Panic Room   in her basement built to her specs there's like  three garages there's all this land this house is   huge it's $3.5 million and he wondered how could  a therapist afford to live in this way well we are   going to get some insight into that what what jod  was doing for this this money that she was making   that allowed her to live this lavish lifestyle but  while Kevin and Ruby were there jod opened up to   them about her troubles and what was happening  to her and Kevin says it doesn't make sense now   talking about it but he believed her because  he witnessed some of it I gotta say like I'm   a smart guy I'm an engineer I designed and help  build some really big stuff I've been a college professor I can't explain some of the stuff that  happened while we were there like crashes and in   the basement while we were talking upstairs and  and plates like in the kitchen and just flying off   by themselves like full speed smashing on the wall  and and falling to the floor like by themselves I   I can't explain it but I saw it with my own eyes  and and I don't have any way to explain it other   than there's some crazy [ __ ] going on Ruby was  convinced that we could intervene and help jod I   didn't want a thing to do with it I tried to like  get the bishop involved and say hey go to like the   priesthood and the church and all that just go  to your support network but Ruby continued to   be like no we can help like she doesn't want the  could you imagine like what what happened to her   reputation of this got out St Let's help her so  we we went down like a couple more times between   May and August but it reached the point where in  August her Bishop at the time a guy Nam he's down   there in cayenta named um Scott galbreth he's  not her Bishop anymore but I mean he was going   over there like every night and he'd be there  for like four hours and just and he's be like   I'm yeah I'm I'm fighting evil spirits I'm casting  demons out and crazy stuff going on and finally   he got to the point where he's like I can't do  this anymore like there needs to be some sort of resolution it was at that point that they said  why don't you take her up to your house and I   was like oh hell no I don't want this in my house  but I was beaten over the head with it like that's   really insensitive you know she's done so much  to help our family and and you're you're being   selfish and and she has needs and and come on like  it won't be for long and so I I relented and I was   like okay so now jod hildbrandt is living with  the Frankie family in Springville and the second   she showed up chaos ensued and Jodie brought  her demons with her literally figuratively in   every way you could mean it and it turned into  just a crazy house the moment she showed up in   my house just the weirdest crap started happening  why it's turned on and off set sounds of people   walking in walls and like sounds like Footprints  going up walls and across the ceiling and and like stuff floating around and and it was just it  was weird and I hated it and I became the resident   Exorcist that was the title I came up with myself  I thought was kind of funny but it was my job like   go and give her blessings whenever she started to  like go into a trance and and go into possession   and which started to be a lot and Ruby would go  up and check on her it started like four every   four hours at night and then it moved every two  hours at night then it moved every hour at night   and then at some point Ruby said you know what I'm  just going to start sleeping in there and and if   I need you I'll come down and get you that's  kind of weird but okay and and that was that   she they started sleeping in the same bed Kevin  says that's kind of weird and yeah you think you   think it's weird it's weird dude it's weird that  your wife is sleeping in the bed with a woman a   grown ass woman that is her it's weird right it's  like Kevin and Ruby suddenly had a newborn baby   who would wake up every hour crying and jod was  supposed to be helping Ruby and Kevin with their   marriage but instead she moves into their house  takes all of Ruby's attention and time brings her   out of her marital bed and basically has Ruby  Place her husband and children in a secondary   role of importance in her life and you'd think  that at that point Kevin would have been like hm   does this woman really want to help us because  if she wanted to help us I I don't see how not   having me and my wife sleep in the same bed at  night is doing that I don't see how your constant   um transes and and haunting and shadow figures  interrupting a peaceful night's rest in our house   are helping our relationship and our marriage  get better but it didn't stop there because in   September jod started going into transes where  she would see God and receive messages from him   okay Lori valow she would get together with Pam  botcher Ruby Pam and jod would get together and   do these interventions that's what they called  them and so they just go up and lock themselves   in a room for four or five hours and then they'd  come out and and they'd all just be on cloud n   and and and Ruby would share with me like she had  this amazing vision and I wrote it and recorded it   all down and we have a work to do from God and and  and you're part of it and and The Bishop's part of   it and we're all part of bringing all this stuff  to the world and just going back you said said   that she was having like these visions of like  what did we ever privy enough to understand or   we told what those Visions were a couple of them  what what were the two they so like one of them   she would was walking along the beach with Jesus  and Jesus challenged her to go walk on the water   and it was a whole lesson on walking on the water  another she would walk with heavenly father and   heavenly mother and she learned about she had a  pet lion in heaven named Charles I I don't know   why I never forgot that name but but it was like  this massive lion and she got to ride the lion and   and learned that you know all about who she was  and this pet lion and all there was another one   where there was a lot of satanic ones where when  she would go into possession mode she would talk   in like different voices it was really creepy  but the voices would say she's ours we're not   letting go she is Satan's bride She's mine I'm  going to marry her you know so if she was faking   it she believed that she was trying to or or  Satan wanted her as her bride so it was um and   it continued like that until I wanted to move  on with life and I would call it dragging my   heels so that was around October and jod flipped  out because during one intervention Chad was in   the backyard with a bunch of friends and it was  my job to keep all the kids contained into the   basement watching movies or playing video games  and I took the dog on a walk and I thought they   were done but they weren't done and Chad had all  his high school friends over in the backyard Jody   flipped out she was ready to come back to Ivans  on her own that night and Ruby and Pam talked her   into staying but that was the first night where  Ruby said I want a separation from you and it was   an inhome separation do you think that L because  they both they both spent time in Utah right Lori   Val spent time in Utah definitely and they both  in the LDS church do you think jod hild debrand   and Lorie valow knew each other like did they run  in the same circles I have to make a note of this   cuz I really want to look it up I guarantee you  they were at some of the same conferences so once   again we look into what is Jo doing there she's  there cuz she needs help but she's also promised   to help Kevin be a better husband to his wife Ruby  and suddenly instead of their relationship and   their marriage improving Ruby wants to separate  from Kevin because he wasn't helping Jodie by   keeping the kids quiet while she was receiving her  Transmissions from God and how do you know they're   from God by the way like how do people know that  they're hearing messages from God instead of like   I don't know Satan right how do you know it's  God and not like an archangel how do you know   it's God and not you know schizophrenia or a  mental health condition how do you know and   suddenly Kevin was now living under a strict  set of rules in his own home basically there   were all these rules now placed on me like I could  leave when I wanted but I couldn't come back until   Ruby gave me permission I couldn't come into the  kitchen to eat until Ruby gave me permission and   the upstairs where jod roamed was completely  off Li I couldn't go up stairs anymore in my   own house and there would be Ruby would dictate  all of the terms of how our interactions would be   when we would talk when and um and that was hard  and it was during that time that I really became   I would say dependent upon Ruby like if she said  a kind word to me like my whole day was made right   and um so that separation continued all the way  up until the holidays maybe maybe the last week   of December first week of January the second week  of January jod hilderbrandt went home to Ivans but   the damage was done and Jodie was completely IM  mesed with Ruby and Ruby was completely focused   on the work that God had given them to do for  him in his name on Earth and Kevin thought it   was batshit crazy he didn't want Ruby to put all  of her eggs into Jody's basket he sensed that   there was some kind of manipulation and maybe  some coer of troll tactics being used on his   wife at the hands of jod hildbrand he thought that  maybe jod was using Ruby or at the very least Ruby   would lose sight of the things that were important  during her path of being Jody's disciple Ruby you   have a reputation you have a multi-million dollar  business you have a brand and you were just giving   it away she wanted to legally like work with  Jody's attorney to basically give Jody eight   passengers and become an employee of connections  so basically the contract was Ruby gives jod   everything and Ruby gets nothing in return our  manager um our YouTube manager at the time was   like um red flags red flags like I don't know how  to tell you she is scamming you Ruby fired him   and I was like I believe our manager I think he's  right and Ruby started threatening me with another   separation and just like this isn't about money  this is about doing God's work so we continued   in that Dynamic for the next six or seven months  until she went on a trip with Jodie and Pam down   to Arizona and I think they like when I read her  journal that she went into Mexico or something   and bought drugs or something like prescription  drugs for the Emergency kits and when she came   back from that trip before she even brought the  bags into the house she pulled me in and said   um I want to talk with you and that's what she  asked me to leave so on July 20th Ruby gets back   home with all these prescription medications she'd  purchased in Mexico I wonder where those were at   at when she was slathering her son's open wounds  with honey and paprika where was the prescription   medication for the Emergency kits Ruby and so Ruby  then tells Kevin when she gets home with all this   Mexican prescription medication she says you got  to leave I want you to leave and Kevin says this   was July 20th of 2022 this is the last time he  saw his children and at this time Kevin was still   in the men's group but he said his Dynamic with  Jodie and the men in the group had changed and he   was suddenly treated as less than as someone who  couldn't be trusted as someone who is potentially   now an enemy instead of an ally instead of being  like one of the top people that helped run groups   and and helped support all of a sudden I was I  felt like I got knocked to the bottom and jod was   just piling on me every week in the men's groups  and the other men the other men just do whatever   Jody does if jod piles on somebody they all pile  on if jod Praises somebody they all praise and so   it it it really felt like a it felt like a like  a pack of dogs and jod was the alpha and whoever   she you know sicked the dogs on they would go  whoever she praise the dogs would just lick them   up and down and that's how these groups went and  so once I was in separation every week was just   hell psychological hell and Jody was running it  everything was on Zoom I knew that the only way I   would ever get back into my house was I had to get  Jody's approval if I didn't get Jody's approval I   would never get Ruby's approval but it felt like  an impossible task because no matter what I did   no matter how like much I tried to track better  be you know true truthful and and not be selfish   every week it was like you're being manipulative  you're being selfish you're lying you're you're   hiding something you're still hiding stuff and  and I really started to like question my sanity   honestly so what it sounds like to me is jod got  her flying monkeys to help her Gaslight the [ __ ]   out of Kevin Frankie and make him question what  he believed he knew to be true she put him in a   position where he would be given certain goals to  reach but the goal post would constantly be moved   and that is frustrating once again as somebody  who's gone through that that's frustrating it   that is enough to drive you crazy because Kevin  could never make progress he could never feel   that he was competent in anything he was doing he  could never feel that his eventual goal which he   claims was to get back home and be with his  family that he wasn't getting any closer to   it he wasn't feeling like that goal was in reach  that's very harmful to somebody's psyche not only   that but jod removed all forms of support system  that Kevin might have had leaving him completely   alone with no one to turn to no one to vent to no  one to trust because if he said the wrong thing   it would all be reported back to jod you know jod  jod had an approved list of men that I could make   phone calls to and it was basically three men but  two of those well no all three of those three men   were like we don't want to do phone calls with you  anymore because you're being manipulative and I'm   like well who told you that well Jody did so I was  completely cut off and I you know if I went to my   church leaders I was seeking enablement if I went  to my family I was seeking enablement if I went to   anybody I was seeking enablement and so it just  it felt like a no when I felt trapped and that's   where I was all the way up until the last week of  July when Jody called me one day out of the blue   and just said I don't understand why you're not  getting it you're not changing I don't get it so   I've been asking God what to do and God told me  that you need just to have complete complete um   Solitude with God become a monk yeah and I was  like what what do you mean and she's like um I   don't want you to come to men's group anymore  and I don't want you to do phone calls with   any of the men and I'm like well then who am I  going to talk with who who's going to support   me God will you need to learn to go to God and so  I'm like there's nobody you're just I mean you're   I'm going to be completely cut off and she's like  no you'll have God and so that was the last week   of July and that was my last interaction and  contact with Jody so while Kevin's being cut   off from everyone and everything he's also dealing  with Ruby who's suddenly asking him to sign papers   but he she's asking him to just trust her don't  actually read or look at what you're signing can   you just trust me like Ruby wanted to meet in a  parking lot and wanted me to sign over titles of   documents like the two of our cars wanted me to  sign them over to her name but I was like okay   you know I'm just not I'm I'm in total compliance  mode at this point just like I'm a good husband   you see you can trust me and and so whatever she  asked like sign over the the the cars to me no   questions just okay and then another thing she  was like I might want to do an investment but I   will need your signature do you trust me enough  that I could get your signature if I wanted to   pursue my own investment uh yeah sure whatever  you say how big of investment what she talking   about did she sell you she never did and I never  signed anything she never brought anything to me   but when I returned to the house everything was  packed up and a neighbor came over and said she   asked for the HOA rules and and mentioned  to him that she wanted to rent the house out which I was like are you kidding me and  he apparently she wanted to sell the house   but couldn't because my name is on the mortgage  and I think I think that's what she was talking   about of will you sign something if I just put it  in front of you and you know what I probably would   have like that's how messed up I was I'm glad you  didn't me too that would have been disastrous yeah   but I can't describe to you what torture and hell  it was to live an entire it was more than a month   really in complete isolation believing that I  was like evil and I mean manipulative and lying   and selfish and I that I had abandoned my family  and that I was more interested in my selfishness   than my family Kevin was told that if he really  wanted to be better and healed he would be so the   fact that he wasn't improving meant that he truly  didn't want to improve the last communication I   had with Joby was last week of July might have  been like the first couple days of August which   just just shortly before we made contact with you  yeah or you made contact with us a month before   okay so for that whole month my life was literally  wake up exercise go to work pretend everything's   okay come home do connections like workbooks and  read scriptures and try to strip selfishness out   of my life like go to bed wake up repeat every  day boom boom boom boom boom I mean I was so   upside down and my plan was in six months I get  to reach back out to jod again and and she'll let   me back in the group and then I can prove even  we had communication with Ruby maybe three or   four times but each time or at least on some of  the occasions you spoke to her she's telling you   that everything's Blissful we're doing well you  know everything's so much better without you oh   that would be communicated to me by jod every  week and the men's groups too and it was just   like you're abandoning your family you're and  and it always hurts so bad because it's like I   want to be with my family so bad what do you mean  I'm abandoning them if you wanted to be with your   family you would change you would stop being  selfish you but you keep being selfish so you   want it it was just felt like well how do I stop  wanting it then it's like then you must change   well how do I change well you got to want it what  you know so how do I want it you got to change is   this like Perpetual yeah there's no I tried to  find my way into that cycle and and it felt like   have you ever had a dream where there's like  a problem you're trying to solve but you can't   solve it and how frustrating you feel that's what  my life felt like and as I'm looking back and I'm   realizing there was no solution it was there was  you either had Jody's approval or you didn't there   I wasn't doing anything different than the other  men in the group but they got her approval so they   were praised and they were repenting and they  were doing everything right I on the other hand   was manipulative and selfish and enabling and all  blah blah blah blah blah blah and she became like   the Arbiter of of Truth The Arbiter of forgiveness  God's Own mouthpiece and it it was just messed up   now what you you're hearing here what happened  to Kevin this is called circular logic and it   is a manipulation technique a manipulation  technique that abusers use that mlms use   that Cults use a circular argument is basically a  bad faith incorrect argument that tries to prove   itself using its own conclusion as evidence so for  example I could look at you like let's say we're   co-workers and I say hey our boss is the best  person for this job because she was promoted to   the position of being our boss therefore she's  the best person for the job this is considered   a logical fallacy because when you make this type  of argument you're not supporting your claim with   logic or facts instead you're using your claim  to prove that the reasons for the claim are true   even the explanation of a circular argument  sounds circular because that's how crazy they   are that's how crazy frustrating and maddening  they are circular arguments are fueled by one   person's emotional reasoning and they also trigger  the other person's the victim's natural reaction   as a human to justify argue defend and explain  themselves and this is known by the acronym Jade   it is a common mistake made by codependent trauma  bonded victims to to participate in this jading   in an effort to avoid or end pointless conflicts  and circular arguments with a toxic person now   what is the toxic person's goal in using these  frustrating maddening circular arguments well   they have a lot of they have a lot of reasons they  have a lot of goals they want to bait you into   conflict and elicit an emotional response which  can then be distorted and twisted around and used   against you whether it's with your support systems  your family your friends uh the law judges law   enforcement people in a legal sense in a personal  sense they want to use your words against you to   isolate you from everyone sometimes they do  it just because they're bored and they want   attention uh toxic people narcissists sociopaths  they get bored very easily cuz they don't have an   identity you are their identity and so when they  do get board they crave stimulation and they get   dopamine from getting attention from you and  they're like little kids in that way they don't   care if it's negative attention positive attention  they just want attention and so they will pick a   fight with you and walk into your office let's say  you're working in the middle of the day they walk   into your office you're in a good mood you're  working you're banging away You're Focus laser   focused in they're like hey can I just talk to you  really quick about something and you're like sure   thinking it's going to be a 5 minute conversation  if that and then 90 minutes later you're sobbing   you're banging your head against the wall you  don't know what the hell happened you don't   know which way is up they love that it gives them  such a thrill toxic people like to create problems   where there are none and they do this to entertain  themselves and these toxic people also sometimes   just like to inflict pain on their victims but  this is a method of entertaining themselves this   circular argument tactic is often used to create  feelings of fear obligation guilt and confusion   in the victim which are the emotions that usually  keep people stuck in abusive relationships right   guilt fear obligation confusion the these  things are the glue that holds trauma bonded   people together because you're confused you're  questioning yourself you don't trust your instinct   anymore once again this person loves me they care  about me why would they tell me things that aren't   true why can't we get on the same page it must be  me circular arguments are all about conditioning   you to give up and let your abuser have their way  they're about keeping you distracted so that you   can't focus on the real issues because you're so  focused on avoiding another argument that you know   you can never wi and as I said circular logic is  used to deceive people in Cults and mlms this is   when circular logic is used when you're trying to  manipulate someone when you're trying to get them   to join a cult when you're trying to get them to  sign up for an MLM that was a tongue twister MLM   when you're trying to abuse them and and have  them allow you to abuse them they want you to   let them continue their abuse on you they don't  want you to wake up and realize what's going on   they don't want you to leave they want you to  be so trauma bonded to them they will cause   your pain but then they'll also be the ones to  comfort you once you're in pain it's crazy and   it looks like this is exactly what was happening  to Kevin Frankie but once again how innocent is   he is he kind of just waking up to this which is  possible you know once you get away from the toxic   situation sometimes you'll have memory gaps and  you'll start remembering things that happened to   you as you know you have distance from your abuser  if you can go no contact and I mean I don't know   if that's the case cuz Kevin really didn't go no  contact from his wife Ruby as we're going to find   out he talked to her while she's in jail but this  video is already going to be super long and we   haven't even gotten to the jail house phone calls  yet or Ruby's journals yet so we will continue on   and wrap up in part two and you won't want to  miss it because this information especially the   journals it's going to give us a lot of insight  into what happened to the kids and into why Ruby   felt that what she was doing was right but before  we go let's do Stephanie's small business showcase   woohoo today's small business comes to us from Li  Ceramics a pottery company owned by Liza Ferman   in her home studio based out of Massachusetts all  the pieces are beautiful honestly they're colorful   they're fun inspired completely handmade using a  pottery wheel and handbuilding techniques and Li   Ceramics believes that every object in your life  should be more than just functional they should   be beautiful as well even the mugs you drink your  morning coffee out of and I agree with that you   know I do Li ceramic is a woman of color owned  business and the items are available in several   retail locations in New England as well as local  markets throughout the year you can explore what   they have to offer on their website which I've  linked Below in the description box I've also   linked their Instagram and Tik toac accounts  for you to follow I'm a sucker for Ceramics   okay I don't know if you all know I'm a sucker  for Ceramics and um I have a whole set of Harry   Potter ceramic mugs that that were made for me by  actually a subscriber who's very talented and I   give my endorsement to Li Ceramics because these  items are beautiful and not only that they're   interesting and they're unique I love the curvy  grid mugs and the Del re mugs because they look   so cool and so artsy so different than anything  I've ever seen and she even has tumblers with   little holes for the straw to fit through which is  so cute and functional so go check out lamics send   her some love and support from the harlo family  tell her I sent you and you know buy a mug or   two if you have somebody you know would love them  if you would love them if you're able to do it uh   we support each other here and we try to support  each other in every possible way we can and you   guys have always supported me so much through  everything and I'll never forget that so before   we leave like the video if you liked it share it  if you think it's worth sharing subscribe if you   haven't already okay the amount of people that are  watching my videos who aren't subscribing is is   going up like the non-subscribers are going up and  I wonder if it's just cuz people don't subscribe   anymore like YouTube is changing but subscribe so  that you're notified every time I post a new video   and until next time stay kind stay beautiful  stay safe and I'll see you very very soon bye straight down and river runs deep M  get Steep and get too loud feel is it's   looking like a going back from the call  it my name say I you don't know go it's   getting you slowly it's all you got to let  it go I got blood blood ons blood blood ons blood mys BL Blood on the streams  Blood on the stre God knows we

Channel: Stephanie Harlowe

Views: 543,129

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Id: tDFS9BI1BJ8

Length: 135min 28sec (8128 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 07 2024