Rob AGER (Jungian archetypes, Kubrick films, and James Bond)

okay hello everybody Welcome to psych hacks I'm Dr Orion taraban and today I'm very happy to be speaking with Mr Rob anger uh Rob is a he has a number of YouTube channels that I followed over the years I think first and foremost is collative learning in which Rob gives some really deep and insightful analyzes on some of my favorite films and uh I've been a fan of his channel personally for many many years so I'm very very stoked to be talking with you today Rob thanks for joining us on the podcast it's great to be here and I asked to say Orion taraba I loved that name and that's like that's something I have a some crazy science picture movie I thought was like a yeah fantastic yeah it's an intense name I didn't choose it of course but it's it's something I've tried to grow into which type when I was younger but it's uh it's nice to have when you're older so uh Rob I remember I that you posted an episode a while back that was something along the lines of like why is it so difficult for people to appreciate that there might be deeper levels of meaning in film like I I I'm assuming that's coming from a perspective of you sharing some of your interpretations with maybe friends or folks on the internet and then saying ah you're you're just reading too deep into this it's just a movie uh so I think we're talking about semiotics here the the reading of symbols why do you think why do you think this is so difficult for folks and and how can people learn how to read film as a like a medium well uh it's a strange one because when I first started posting the videos I didn't think anyone would be interested in the stuff but um turns out there are some people who are really into this stuff you know I was quite surprised I thought it would only be other filmmakers but there's a lot of regular everyday people who are who are interested in this stuff and if you start telling them about it um and showing them the little bits and pieces from the movies or you're pointing out things from movies that they're already familiar with um then they're like oh my God yeah and they can even remember from the scenes the details that you're talking about and and they love it you know some people do but yeah a lot of people just really back off from this stuff and like whoa whoa whoa whoa I just want to go with the surface plot of the movie I just want to believe what I'm told by the characters um there's a simple straightforward narrative that you've followed it's got a middle beginning and an end and at the end you're told what the full story is and that's it and then the movie's over and then you just go away and that's that's that um but yeah this this idea that the of movies which that have a lot of hidden stuff that isn't obvious a lot of people are really uncomfortable with it and it shows in that the choice of movies that they watch as well um you know the type of people who don't want to go anywhere near the movies of like David Lynch or something like that because you don't get a very obvious explanation at the end of the movie and they hate walking away confused they they feel uncomfortable with that confusion and um I mean there's a there's a few different things that I think this is down to uh one I think is we humans have got into this sort of bearable reality that we've created for ourselves which is incredibly useful uh you know we go around and we take this incredibly complex world that's around us and we apply all these verbal labels to these complex things just so we can have a simplistic organizing approach to reality oh there's a car you know but a car is actually an unbelievably complex thing if you actually go and study it in detail um so I think that's an issue is people don't like Delvin out of the comfort zone of simplistic verbal uh reality and once you get outside of that it's like oh my God the world is too complex and I'm getting a headache and I'm not sure if I can handle this but I think there's that reaction a lot of the time and another one is that I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea that they've been deceived that somebody has come along and made a movie and they fooled the the person who was watching it into thinking it was about one thing and it turned out there was a lot of other stuff going on there and I think sometimes it makes people feel like um uncomfortable it's like I mean people have a problem with deception generally anyway uh a lot of people like to just follow the newspaper headlines and stuff to get their reality about how the world works and of course the real world is way more complex than the newspaper headlines um so that's a big factor as well and I think when people watch movies a lot of the time they just want to be entertained they want to get away from the world of deception and um I mean there's a thing about movies as well where um you have the you know good guys and bad guys in movies and people loved the Simplicity of good guys versus bad guys and movies but in reality you can't always tell who's a good guy and who's a bad guy so you know that that makes things nice and comfortable in movies you don't have to deal with deception so much the bad guys make it obvious that they're a bad guy so yeah the the complexity and dealing with the deception that's gone on when a movie has deeper themes I think those two things people have a major problem with so among other things what I'm hearing is that it's like an emotional discomfort over overwhelming or incomprehensible complexity that tends to turn people off and maybe there's a sort of literacy that comes with being able to read symbolism in film or in literature or in other works of art that people don't practice and therefore don't have but maybe some people have the potential to move in that direction but they might feel emotionally uncomfortable about doing so because it might shatter some of their let's say comfortable World Views I really like what you said about the Simplicity of good versus evil because I think that some of the best works of art whether it's film or literature is not really about good versus bad but about two two sorry like you you cut out a little bit there can you just go back a little bit you cut out for about five seconds so oh sorry I I heard everything on on my end so what I was saying is that I really like what you said about the good versus evil being too simplistic because in my opinion all the Best Literature were film is not really about good versus evil it's about two mutually incompatible World Views that each have their merits but they can't both be held at the same time I'm actually working on an analysis of Les Mis the book and and the musical because there's this fundamental antagonism between Javier and Valjean that I think is actually mirrored in kind of like the old versus the New Testament you got you got Jaber who's like an eye for an eye there has to be order when there are bad guys and good guys and that's totally incompatible with the let's say the new testament worldview which is that people can change people can be redeemed and um once a bad guy not always a bad guy because if we open up the possibility to that it really throws all of the order of the uh the Old Testament Covenant into chaos and that's exactly what happens to Javier at the end of the film so uh and and it's not that Javier is a bad guy he definitely has a point we need Justice we need order um we need Sentinels in the night to look out for folks so it's not that he's he's bad he's just you can't have both of those World Views at the same time and so it's a contest to see who's kind of going to come out in the end ahead now with the deception this is something that you I remember you talked a lot about in your analysis of 2001 which I think is just absolutely brilliant where you talk about how on the surface this film seems to be like uh a movie about first Contact it's about um you know the star baby elevating into the next dimension of human consciousness but I think I'm getting it right your argument is that Kubrick was actually trying to make a commentary on like Cinema itself is that fair to say yeah partially yeah yeah I'll show you about the medium itself and how the medium can be deceptive you know and uh I'm not not to go over it too much uh because I've covered this stuff a lot before but the whole idea about touching the monolith and the monolith being the cinema screen in Disguise but it's been rotated at 90 degrees um when you touch the monolith and you're touching the movie screen itself it's like if you're sat at home or you sat in a cinema and you're watching this movie and you think oh this is so real but if you go up and touch the screen it's like it's not even unreal you know I can touch the screen right now and you are not really in front of me and you know that we've got this communication going on digitally but um I think that's part of the concept of 2001 is that don't believe in what you see on your screens and just go and touch the screen and realize that it's just a magical display that's going on it's not reality you know I think that's part of the whole 2001 thing yeah yeah and the way that you worked in all of those rotationals um gestures you you notice the rotational gestures in the movie to turn the monolith from vertical to horizontal to mimic the panoramic service would have picked up on that I thought that was very observant Rob now I do believe that you mentioned that partly the reason why that level of meaning might have been buried into the service in 2001 was that Kubrick couldn't really get that film produced like no one was going to pay to bankroll a film about the the illusion of Cinema they wanted this was in the era of I guess it was before Star Wars but we're getting into the space race and this was very popular and and so he kind of had to do it for pragmatic reasons so the question I have for you I'm going to play a little bit of a devil's advocate here is if if what you're saying is true about these hidden levels of meaning and if the filmmakers really wanted people to understand these levels of meaning why did they go through the trouble of hiding them like why don't they just tell the people what they really want them to know okay uh does something that I think is going on particularly with Kubrick and Lynch and people like that where they're challenging the audience it's like the saying I'm not going to hand it to you on a plate I'm going to give you lots of Clues and you're going to do the rest of the work and figure it out you know it's like uh there was actually a in the novelization of 2001 which Kubrick wrote with Clark and Kubrick had authorization writes on that novel he was able to override Clarke um in the novelization there are many many models all over the Earth it's not just the one that arrives so there's tons of them with different ape groups and the apes are being tested that explains that it's it's not just about training the Apes it's about testing them and so the monoliths are looking for the Apes with the most potential and so it tests them with a number of perceptual tricks and I think at one point they have to throw stones at the the monolith and there's like a Target on it and they have to throw stones and hit it and stuff like that so it's looking for Apes with potential to really develop and it doesn't bother with the rest and you know this it's quite you could say it's kind of like snobbish and elitist um but I think Kubrick was basically just he wasn't trying to make a movie that everybody would be able to get I think he knew that a lot of people that would have just been like too much of a headache for them or they couldn't be bothered they're not motivated well I think he realized that there would be some people around who would be really interested in developing their understanding feather of the movie and because the movie doesn't give verbal explanations those people would have to explore the visual you know the non-verbal the metaphoric the symbolic uh they would have to delve into that and gradually start to decode what he put in yeah and so that you know the the novelization is very specific about that about um I think that there was a point where it actually said that the monolith was there to find out whether the Apes were worth helping oh my god um I think Kubrick may have said that in an interview as well at one point um I can't recall if it was just in the novelization but you have that when I came across the I was like my God is this is this like the attitude Kubrick was taken with with this film was like um I'm gonna hit you with this really tough puzzle that is right outside your comfort zone right outside of your familiar verbal thinking and it's definitely outside of the thinking of the investors so they're not going to get it um but if there's some of you out there who are going to be open to this stuff who are really willing to step outside of the usual mental boundaries and here you go I've got some employer I've got like a cinematic Rubik's Cube which if you can break it down and figure it out either individually or collectively figure it out then you can have the the goodies that are hiding underneath yeah the hidden narrative I like that well let's let's kind of pivot a little bit and talk about um I I think this is an interesting connection so like why why do symbols even work at all and I think there has to be some sort of psychological response to that question that the the reason why symbols might be so rich especially as a communicative medium is that like a rose is not just a rose a rose can also be Beauty it's also about sexuality it's the color of the Rose could be passion or it could be friendship um that these are all associations that we have with the symbol either the word or the image of the rose that we can kind of play with without even uh making it seem like we're activating those associations so they they seem to be in play in our Consciousness even though we may not be actually perceiving them on the screen do you think that that's part of what we're talking about here definitely yeah I mean this I mean it's it's it is kind of you've hit on the night I don't need that there's a lot of people who resist this kind of symbolism in movies because they're not used to this kind of symbolism but symbolism is dead in their life every day and they use it when they speak they don't realize they're talking that way um you know if if if they if they meet someone who is very uh say intelligent they'll refer to that person as bright how are they bright it's not like they're actually emanating light but they use that term and that is such an inbuilt um metaphor that we all use it as if it's a real thing you know um so it seems like people are really okay with using symbolism that they're familiar with and they know that everybody else is familiar with but when you start getting into new types of symbolism or more complex symbolism then it's like oh they start to back off yeah sure because I think at basis all language that we use human language is metaphorical in its Essence because otherwise we would just be talking in tautologies like if I were to say a rose is a rose like that's x equals X as a mathematical proposition which is true but totally not useful and not interesting information so the way that we communicate is we actually say it looks x equals a times b or something like that so we we can kind of transmute this one variable into a combination of other variables and still maintains some sort of equality between them and that's how we can kind of expand our conceptual understanding of the universe it's through metaphor which is basically a graded comparison between two things right yeah yeah I mean I I I've been getting it quite into the idea of um I've been learning a bit more about about mathematics recently I've been studying uh I wrote a huge video which I'm still editing which is about uh cubic reality and it covers 2001 Space Odyssey the movie Tron and uh the video game Minecraft you know with this cubic blocky world okay and um cubism in Picasso's artwork it goes through a whole bunch of historical cubism things that have happened in the past 120 years and uh I was I was very interested because I think there's something in this there's patterns going on here what is what is it with this cubic reality thing that people are drawn to and so I started like um researching a bit more about mathematics and mathematical theories and I sort of started I've already suspected this for a while but sort of came to the conclusion that mathematics itself isn't the real thing it's actually symbolic you know numbers are just symbols um if you go through history there's been different numerical systems of existed yeah the the Roman numeral system most of us are familiar with that we get taught her in school and we've got our own system and there's there's all these different ones with it's not just the ten point thing but I think the main theory is that we we have a 10 point um you know 10 numbers because of the the number of numbers of fingers and thumbs on our hands so it makes it easier for us to count intense so that um 10-digit system which is used everywhere in the world today um it's almost like taking over to the point where we think it is real but it's just one other form of it's just another set of symbols that's fascinating so you're basically saying it's an anthropomorphized uh view of reality that's been like reified as something that's objective to nature which isn't true because even though I think every culture in the world now uses the base 10 system of mathematics that hasn't always been true in fact now computers are not running base 10 they're running binary um and exactly and base eight um but I think the Mayans used a base 12 calculation which I think would be very difficult for me and most modern people to take off the retrain our perceptions but it's not anymore or less real than the one we've already got yeah I used to be a math professor and I used to tell people that math is not about numbers it's about quantity which is a different thing and quantity is really about relationships like the the number 0.75 is about the relationship between three to four and three and four not really numbers because they are quantities in of themselves that can be reduced into different kinds of relationships like there is no value in and of itself all values exist in proportion to other values so what we're talking about an absolute that's kind of a misnomer we're actually just comparing it to some other things everything is about relationships um so let's talk about this so if the symbolism of film is related to let's say the psychological associations that people have in their minds about certain images would it be fair to say we could take a film like Mulholland Drive which I just rewatched yesterday and show that to like the folks in Papua New Guinea and they're going to be able to pick up on the symbolism or is there stuff in Lynch's films that you kind of need to be trained by maybe other lynches films or by Western Cinema in general to be able to perceive like are these symbols contextual or are some of these symbols Universal definitely a mix of the two um I mean it's you know with with Lynch I mean a key thing is just figuring out which scenes and dream sequences and which aren't you know you as far as I tell with without doing that you cannot figure out the proper narratives of this films like Mulholland Drive it's actually got a very um uh it's got a narrative that makes perfect logical sense and a standard plot way it's just that it's presented through a mixture of dream sequences which I think is about something like the first two thirds of the movie I think is all dream sequences and then you start getting presented towards the end of the movie with the waking State experiences and you have to relate those to the dream experience scenes in order to figure out what really happened so you know you get one character who shows up but they represent a different character uh you know in real life they were a different character but in the dream they are somebody else um I mean that that stuff kind of goes I would say that's it's difficult to work out but I think that can be figured out by people from any culture because in all cultures people dream um and I I would well I don't know if there's been any research done on this but I would assume that the similar kinds of bass symbolism goes on in dreams across all cultures I should imagine it somebody from some Far Away culture that is really exotic and different to mine and if some of the air has a dream I'm pretty sure they're in their dreams every now and then somebody will pop up in the dream who who visually looks different but they represent somebody who exists in that person's real awakened state that you know the person has been um represented differently in the dream I I would assume that that happens across cultures um in all dream states so on that basis I would say people from any culture should be able to look at a movie like Mulholland Drive and start figuring it out I suppose you've got the language bar you might make it awkward as worker yeah I don't think it's research but I think Paulo coelio said that Shepherds tend to dream of sheep which kind of makes sense but what we're getting at I think is uh the possibility that there may be Universal um symbolism that all human beings are capable of perceiving and understanding and in Psychology the guy who most people are aware of did the most work on that is Young And The Arc Type yeah and I think one way that we can think about archetypes is that they're Universal symbols that they exist in the collective Consciousness and may even have like a biological origin yeah and these are ways of perceiving that all human beings are capable of um other all human beings are capable of regardless of their culture or their language so these are symbols like um like death or like um the wise old man or um the empress things like that you know the kind of stuff that shows up on tarot cards actually yeah so it I think that there is a strong argument for the possibility of archetypal symbology in all human beings just like there seems to be some Universal human emotions that are always kind of as far as we know experience but certainly expressed in the same way regardless of people's culture or socialization um what have you what have you done with respect to junking archetypes in your work Rob well funnily enough I just finished editing uh yesterday morning or the day before um a new video that I haven't put out yet which is on um Carl Jung's uh quite short book called the Undiscovered self um I read that for the first time recently and it's only 79 pages so so tons of notes and recorded that um I've been aware of Carl Jung's stuff for a long time I've read about his theories but never read his books until recently I think I've read some of his papers before um and I I think it's fantastic he's absolutely brilliant he was so ahead uh of the Kev and like the stuff that he was writing away back in the 1950s is absolutely relevant today um yeah so I mean was there some specific aspect of young that you wanted to discuss there well you've made a couple of videos on the Shadow and I think the shadow is really interesting because there are a few different ways that we can approach the idea of the Shadow both in jungian Psychology and in other forms of psychology um I think there are two general um ways to approach it that I'm aware of and you can correct me if you if you want to change the definition or if you have another idea one is that the shadow is sort of a disavowed self it's the part of myself that I don't allow myself to acknowledge and so I deny and repress and and see it in other people and want to destroy the projected evil that I perceive in others because I'm willing to accept it in myself I think that is the more let's say jungian approach to it there's another um idea about the shadow that basically says the shadow is kind of inescapable even if you were to do all of this deep personal you know psychological work to kind of like understand your demons as we say to integrate Your Shadow you still have a shadow you can't get away from it because your shadow in this conceptualization is just the sum of all of your unchosen lines that it's not necessarily a bad thing it's just the path that you didn't take and on some level The Shadow becomes even more dangerous to the individual when the unchosen path represents let's say greater happiness and prosperity than the one that you decided to take does that make sense yeah yeah um okay so let's try to think that so so you're talking about the like the rejected part of ourselves absolutely that's so big I totally agree with that and we projected on to others and then we we hate the older people who we projected onto absolutely and uh you know I mean young talked about that in terms of well before world affairs Wars and stuff you know it's like he said virtually all laws it's just two sides each project in their own shadow onto the other side and then attacking it you know so um he talked about the the mutual withdrawing of projections as a way of stopping War not an easy thing to persuade all the leaders to do is it um and then the other one you mentioned can you just clarify that for me a little bit again yeah rather than be like so in the first definition the things that I'm disavowing of myself are like my own capacity for cruelty my own darkness my own hatred my own envy and selfishness I I prefer you know like I'd prefer to think of myself as all good as righteous as honest as forthright but like those those darknesses live inside of me you know and I if if I don't get through them they're always there they're built in um into uh it's in our nature the way we we grew up in the you know the way we evolved we had to fight we had to be we had to fear you know all that kind of stuff yeah it's uh you can't get really you can become aware of the Shadow and lessen its effect on you so that you don't project so much but you can't get rid of it that's my understanding of it yeah and I think that the more that I do that shadow work myself and accept those parts of myself I become more compassionate and patient with other people because it's like yeah and when I see this and other people I'm like well you know have I really done have I done something that bad myself in the past maybe I have could and if I haven't could I yeah I probably could so um you know I don't want to give bad behavior a pass but it is important to the we can respond to that behavior without necessarily needing to hate it or destroy it absolutely so yeah so that's that's one part the other part is that um like think think about this maybe there's an archetypal story I can't think of one on top of my head but there's like two twin brothers and one person takes the path of I'm becoming a scholar and I'm working hard and I'm getting married and becoming a productive member of society the other person takes the path of I want uh a life of adventure and exploration and um danger and like this intensity of Life neither one is necessarily bad or wrong but one is kind of the shadow of the other because they couldn't take you'd either take one path or the other and on some level that twin becomes the shadow of the other person because um they represent all of their the way their life could have been but they didn't choose does that make sense so all of the uh motivations the desires that would have opened the the would have been the basis of that alternate life if it had happened you go down a different path but okay I guess you could say the edge for the the path that you didn't go down that edge is still there you could refer to that as like the shadow sure because whenever we make a choice we actually have to forbear every other decision out there and so every decision requires this sacrifice and that means like actually giving up a huge part of our lives and a huge part of our our potentiality it's like my best friend in in high school he right out of college went to law school and he got a corporate job and he bought a house and got married and I was an actor and I was living this kind of life and he would look at me sometimes and think oh Ryan you're so free you get to do kind of whatever you want and I was like yeah but I'm broke and you got a nice house and a fancy car so it's like we just represented the path that the other didn't take okay yeah yeah that's a lot of paths there it is right yeah yeah but so I think in that case the shadow is more around like Choice points it's like if I could um you know what would my life have been like if I didn't marry this person or if I didn't become a doctor but it's usually around really or even that this tragedy didn't befall me you know what I'm saying that's a big one yeah so it's not necessarily about the the negative that's just another way of looking at it but we can talk about either one of those definitions of the Shadow or something else I think I got what you mean yeah I mean it's um the the term Shadow because Shadows are literally dark implies that it's a negative uh nature to the to the shadow but yeah I definitely agreed as either whether you would call it the same Shadow or whether we've got multiple Shadows that come with us and some are more positive some are more negative yeah but definitely I agree that there's um an unconscious side of us that follows us that's full of positive things definitely yeah I definitely agree that's the case I mean whether you want to look that in with the negative side and call it as one or whether you can separate it out into different pieces for them but we're getting into mathematical uh relationship comparisons there so I don't think the words really can do it justice can they you know they often can't so I was bringing this up in the context of your analysis of a full metal jacket do you want to talk about that or do you want me to try yeah great yeah yeah so what do you what do you see is the role of the shadow in that film uh the main thing that I see is the the split between the two halves of the movie the first half and the second half and a lot of people don't like the second half of the movie this is quite interesting because I mean young talked about that a lot of people don't like accessing their own unconscious they don't want to be aware of their own shadow it's uncomfortable isn't it you know so um so naturally they don't like the second half of Full Metal jackets so much because it gets into the the the jungian shadow thing uh and you know Kubrick did talk about Carl Jung in relation to Full Metal jackets and interviews he specifically said that he and the co-writer Michael Hare who wrote the book uh is called dispatchers which Full Metal Jacket takes many of its scenes from um Kubrick said that he and Michael hair were specifically talking about ways of getting Young's The Shadow into full metal jackets so I mean you know never mind all the secrecy that with 2001 Space Odyssey that Kubrick was pretty open about putting uh jungi and Shadow Concepts into full metal jacket it's not so obvious when you watch the movie because nobody tells you except for that one moment when um The Joker character is talking to I think is a kennel or a um some high ranking officer and the officer the officer demands to know from why have you got a peace symbol on you jacket and you've got born to kill written on your helmet and Joker says I was trying to make a comment about The Duality of Man the jungian thing you know that that's quite a blatant giveaway for Kubrick I mean he's not normally that blatant but you know he slipped it in there um so yeah but for me the overall split that happens in that movie is between the first and second half and the way I view it is that the recruits in the first half of the movie they are shadowed in the second half of the movie those recruits in the first half are reborn as the Lost hog Squad in the second half of the movie uh I did a video up there in fact it's still up uh about Full Metal Jacket called um it was about the private pile character um Born Again hard I think I called the the video just so sorry I haven't watched that one a few days ago I thought that was really insightful yeah so so you know the basic point where private pile his death is symbolic in the toilets in the first half of the movie and that's like killing off the the innocent child he's like a baby like innocent character and in the military training they want to kill that off they want to get rid of your innocence and your your childishness and just turn you into a man I mean they literally call you we're going to turn you into a man that that standard jargon in you know military training so they want to get rid of the infants so he gets killed off uh symbolically in the first half and then he comes back in the second half uh his shadow is the character called animal mother and if you watch the two characters they have similar facial expressions similar height and build one's fat and the other ones suddenly become lean and um yeah so this that that's your Shadow at work right there and what neither of them is aware of the other animal more that never ever makes any reference to uh the first half of the movie in fact in the second half of the movie nobody talks about the first half in the movie at all um the cowboy character shows up in the second half and Joker meets up with them but it's like the first half of the movie didn't even exist I think that freaked people out and watched him film out the jackets like you're watching two separate movies um and I think it was like they're two heart two hemispheres of the brain separated the oil and but it's not just animal mother who that happens with lots of the other characters in the first half of the movie appear to be reborn in the second half so you've got private snowball which is the black character in the first half um he becomes private eight ball in the second half and he gets killed later um and yeah yeah so that that's that's the way I look at it is the the squad is reborn as their jungian shadows in Vietnam and the military has split their psyche so that they've become somebody else and they can't even remember who the hell they were when he started the basic training well there was one um a very clear clue they're found in the the Full Metal Jacket script and if you look in the movie the look The Lost hog squad has got it's got a number it's 4092 or something like that you um but in the script it's the the trainees who've got that number so they've got their squad and it's named 4092 or whatever number it is and in the movie it switches to the Lost hog Squad in the second half I thought that was quite interesting you know um so yeah it's been a a while since I've done any videos on Full Metal Jacket but that's the general uh jungian gist uh that I got from that yeah I think that's brilliant because I remember the first time I saw that movie back when I was a teenager I would not have been able to make that interpretation I think my sense of private piles suicide was it was a commentary on just like the brutality and cruelty of the military yeah and it you know this it just destroyed this person through like this ritualized trauma and it was a commentary on the evils of militarism and maybe even American imperialism I do think it was that as well I mean this is the thing is like with Kubrick he he wasn't just he didn't just feel the need to present one narrative he was happy to present you with a number of different things um which all have some truth to them and yeah the first half of the movie works very well on that point and I always perceived it on that level as well so I'm not saying that that version of the first half of the movie is invalid and it's just the youngin take on it is it's just a different uh view of it but the the good thing about that jungi intake is it does make kind of sense of the second half of the movie and that's where people get confused what the hell is this second half of the story where's it going what's it about yeah yeah and and that's why it it's weird it's when I watch some of your interpretations of films and I think this is probably true for symbolic interpretation in general it's like when I hear your vision of it it like makes so many things clear and it's almost like that moment of that makes total sense and I kind of on some level knew that without even knowing it that I think is the confirmation of the validity of the interpretation it's like the things that you point out are absolutely true but they were just happening subliminally like below the level of my own awareness um but everything kind of shifts and there's a great deal of like Integrity between between everything that previously just seemed confusing and disjointed and hence the reason why you would click to watch your film analysis of fullwell jacket you wouldn't watch it if you didn't think there was more there absolutely and I think you're right most people really first half of that movie which is weird because the second half is the war movie you know on some level it's the action it's the killing it's the yeah I think part of the reason why a lot of folks don't like the second half is because it's not actually just a flat out War pick it has this like meta Narrative of the soldiers in action but also like being interviewed about being in action which sort of like breaks up the action of the war movie which is unusual I don't know any other war movie that's kind of like that yeah yeah it's it's the yeah there's a funny aspect of it where it's like in the second half of the movie you know they talked about John Wayne a lot in the film both in the first and second half there's references to John Wayne and it's it's kind of like in the second half of the film uh all the soldiers are acting like they are in a movie um you know even in like the first battle scene it's like they're all posing for the camera you know trying to look tough for the camera and stuff and um and you got the when they're all sneaking up towards that building where there's I think the snipers or something up in the building not the ending of the movie the first battle scene and they all just blast this this building to Pieces um and it's so staged and choreographed it's it's like they it's like they are it's almost like they're aware that they're in a movie it's like we are in a war movie and um well I think that was part of when they play it up and we're going to act it up yeah yeah and I think that's part of why the Vietnam War as I understand it was so unpopular because it was the first excessively televised War so that could be like a kind of historically accurate um you also talked about the military creating a man and I'm actually doing a number of pieces on like performative masculinity and so maybe the introduction of the camera in the film is a commentary on how we it's like we we that men these days are are acting as if they were men on some level that they that's more of a performance of masculinity than um but actually okay man potentially fascinating stuff okay um can I pivot again Rob okay because once around whatever subjects you want to talk about I want to be sure we get to this because uh I'm one of the biggest James Bond fans on planet I get a sense that you're up there too so I'm really excited to be talking to you about the series so um I I probably got into Bond when I was a teenager and I just became obsessed with him and I probably seen all the pre-crag movies at least 20 or 30 times so it's like I'm pretty oh that's a serious bonfire serious yeah um so I want to there's a number of things we can discuss first I just got to get off my chest because I think that you've made your uh public let's say disdain is that too strong of a word for the for the Craig movies so what's up why do you why do you hate the Daniel Craig Bond movies so much um I don't know about hate I just find them boring incredibly boring um you were talking about uh people acting up on masculinity um and instead of actually being masculine and I see that with the Craig Bond movies and there's too much of an effort to try and make him look really tough and hard and you know it's like I prefer the old bonds where Bond was having a laugh and um I I love the uh the Sean Connery Roger Moore Timothy Dalton era um yeah there's so much to go into about that yeah but it's I find the new ones are too fake uh ironically that they try to be more realistic but they're not more realistic they're just as stupid as the old ones um but they try to put this uh veneer of realism on it um that isn't there the plots are just as stupid the the characters are just as stupid the fights are just as unrealistic but in the old movies they embraced it and they they didn't lie about it and they they acknowledge to the audience who said look you know we know this is absolute garbage we know this is juvenile teenage um masculine sexual fantasy and it's it could never happen in the real world but we are going to fulfill those deep fantasies that you've got on the most brilliant level um you know you know we're going to take the fantasy beyond what even you would would do with it you know um and I love how they did that because for me that felt very honest they made them movies unrealistic but I think that was honest because the fantasies that we men have that were being fulfilled by the movies those fantasies are unrealistic to begin with so I think the more mature approach is to present it unrealistically on the screen and the new movies try to uh pretend that it's not pretended yeah they do have this like grittiness and this realism we don't have exploding pens and uh you know helicopters and suitcases and women with ridiculous names and and things like that but um realistic by the way that case that they're not more realistic I I do think that for most of the series they are catering to the male fantasy it's like who would want to be this dashing secret agent who lives a life of adventure embeds all these beautiful women and saves the world I mean it's like sign me up for that that sounds fantastic and there seemed to be some sort of like crisis of conscience about this that happened in my I think the first signs we see it in our GoldenEye which I we watched a couple of years ago a lot of people that are my age have this romanticized view of GoldenEye I think because of the video game that came up uh at that time around the time when we were classic game and so we love golden eye but when you go back and watch it it's actually kind of depressing and a lot of that movie they spend just like flagellating bond for his misogynism for his you know being out of date you know the money Penny the new Young Money Penny isn't going to flirt with them so she's she's too good for his advances and it's like we can't have fun anymore in in Goldeneye and it was like we have to stop uh we have to stop The Superficial male fantasy that we've been indulging in for too long and not only that we have to enact some sort of penance on men and I actually think that's where we're getting within the Craigs because I do I do think that um you know ever every actor who played Bond certainly brought something unique to the role and I think that's also not just a representation of who he was as a person or an actor but also of the times and um I think what Craig brought to bond was you know that we hadn't really seen in bond before is that I can take it I can take whatever you throw at me and still stand up like I'm tougher than anything else it's like you couldn't think Roger Moore I don't think could really get the crap beaten out of them maybe you know he he'd probably keep a stiff British upper lip but like Craig is just no matter what you throw at me no matter if you it's the same with Connery by the way I mean a lot of people think if Connery as being a tough Bond but actually when you see him with his shirt up in the movies he was just as skinny as Roger Moore he just had a hairy chest but heavy chest doesn't stop but lots of conscious does it you know so yeah I mean we had Bond like running through drywalls in Casino Royale and just like being this this almost this unhinged weapon of like pure ID and destruction that needs to kind of be reigned in in Casino Royale to become a more targeted effective assassin basically um but I do think that the the Craigs are kind of a um I mean we're talking about how to be a man in a modern society that kind of doesn't believe in men that thinks that men have done all kinds of bad things in the past and not only maybe shouldn't be in power anymore but maybe need to be brought to bear for those transgressions those historical Transmissions and um that Bond as the man who's like who gets things done and it's tough is becoming increasingly irrelevant like you see that in the exchange with q in Casino Royale and they made Q into this um this young nerdy character we also find out in no time to die that he's gay and he basically says that you know you're I can do more damage on my laptop than you could in your entire life you're you're just someone needs to pull the trigger every once in a while so we're using you you're just like this brute animal you don't really have a place and you also see that in the storyline in like um uh what is it Specter where uh who is it C is trying to take over MI6 it's like the the whole MI6 Empire is we don't need this anymore we're globalists uh we need to move Beyond this parochial view of nationality it's just like the whole thing about that bond is coming up against in the Craig films is you are irrelevant like that just gets told to him over and over and over again and over and over and over again he shows that he's not like I think that's the the male fantasy today which is men live in the society where they're kind of being told in so many ways that they are increasingly irrelevant yeah you know we're not that's a good take on it I like that yeah and and Craig's and he kind of takes it on the chin every time it's like the exchange with Vesper on the train when he just like Smiles as she skewers him and no one really believes in him but he is he gets the job done and almost everybody comes around and respects him in the end and I think that's the new male fantasy not that I'm gonna go in bed you know 30 different women and have a bunch of cool cars it's that like I can still be a man and be respected and celebrated for doing so yeah what do you think uh I can I can see that reading of it um I don't for me it doesn't make the movies work for me um because right in order to be respected as a man you have to save the world and I can go through all kinds of pain and beat people up and fighting and stuff but that's the male fantasy version what does that mean a woman doesn't have to go through that does that mean some other person from some other group doesn't have to do that why is it only a a male has to do that you know it's a good point so yeah it's not a message that I agree with um but I also never got the the feeling and I didn't cease back to but I saw the other ones I never got the feeling in any of those movies that he ended up respected at the end it's all for me the endings were always just flat and dull um well he died in the last one didn't he well he does and then they toast him and you know everybody is very sad uh Vesper comes around after he started with his hacks very sad uh maybe you're right it's the difference isn't it I saw some interesting takes one thing that I do think was great about the Craig series is that really for the first time you see continuity between the films which I think was some something that the series as a whole really missed out on like I think you see Sylvia trench for two seconds in From Russia with Love and she's the girl that you meet at the baccarat table in Dr No but other than that other than like q and Moneypenny and there's like no every every movie is it takes place in like this almost in its own time capture a lot of medically sealed universe exactly and I think that I do kind of like that though because I love the fact that with all the old movies you can just say which Bond movie do I feel like watching today and you can dive into any one of them and it's a complete whole experience on its own um where's the new ones yeah it's more like a series I I prefer the old style but I can understand that there there are appeals to having a continuous story between them all but there's some interesting things that come out of the uh the disconnected nature between the old um Bond films it's almost like they're all remakes of the same story you know and the formula for sure yeah definitely the same formula they're all remade lots and lots of different ways um and you kind of always knew what the outcome was was going to be but there's things about that that I found really fascinating and one of them is uh if you looked at them as being continuous a continuous Bond story what happens to each um woman he gets with at the end of each movie before the next movie is the I was actually thinking I might do a video on this at some point I think you talked about this in one of your episodes you have a little pep probably bad yeah I mean does he does he does he kill them off does he uh you know is he serial killer uh does he just go and sneakily dump them is this some woman broken-hearted crying their eyes out somewhere well he's off Adventure in in the world meeting the next girl you don't often see that you see that I think in uh Tomorrow Never Dies where he goes up to uh Terry Hatcher's character and she just slaps him and I think this is the first time in a film where bond gets reintroduced to a woman that he has seduced in the past you don't you see that yeah yeah and then he succeeds in seducing her again so I guess yeah yeah of course he does yeah yeah there's always an excuse to let Bond off with them with being a naughty boy isn't it you know so it was usually like he sleeps with one girl or two girls early in the movie and they get killed by the bad guys sometimes Bond even slip slips up and accidentally puts them in danger and they get killed anyway but then he gets to be with the woman he really wants in the movie at the end and he doesn't have to have the guilt of dumping the other ones because they got killed I think that's certainly the formula I I don't know the numbers but I get the sense that in recent movies he seduces fewer women per movie too I think we're all about Madeline Swann and there are other some there's some other eye candy in that movie but I don't think he actually seduces them my favorite girl in no time to die was Paloma the girl that did you see that one Rob I've seen it yeah I can't remember much of it that one really uh kicked me in the teeth um Paloma is the girl that she he meets up with I think in Cuba with Felix and they have like a big gun fight she's super competent she's on the floor shooting the people and and drinking with her and at the end he like shakes her hand says good job and it's like it's almost that one felt a little heavy-handed it's like man this is how you're supposed to treat female colleagues and you know even if they're beautiful and um you know this is a male fantasy so uh but I do think that you know he didn't sleep with her and in fact um there's a little bit of a misunderstanding in a scene where she brings him into a closet to get him into change into like an outfit and um he thinks that they're going to have sex and she's just like no no no no um that actually happens in a different point in the movie with the woman who becomes the new 007 yeah she kind of picks him up at the club and they go back to his house and he just is she's like is the bedroom over here and he's like okay I guess we're doing this and it turns out that she's the new 007 and they're not gonna have sex so it almost feels like the I think the number of seductions has decreased significantly in recent years and I think that is um maybe that just has to do with the political climate or uh how some of the Seductions in the bond series have really kind of toyed with the line of consent let's put it that way I'm thinking there's a thing with the from what I recall with the the Craig Bond films were if he does sleep with a woman it has to it has to be because there's been some sort of a trauma he's been through a horrible time or she's been through a horrible time and it's kind of like um blocking out the raw sexual attraction and making out that it's like oh this is an emotional connection based upon shared trauma sure which again I found I find it dishonest because people do have raw sex Desires in real life people do go around you know guys and women that go around and see people and um just uh you know decide I'm gonna but I I would like to just this person that's what people do it's like can you hear my phone going off in the other room there you're good okay my phone's going off if you can't hear it that's fine um so yeah people do have this raw pornographic desire for people who they just spot in the streets or people they know that is what people are really like you know it's it's there um so I think to try and take the bond thing and hide that and say we've got we're only going to have Bond have um sex with women when there's some emotional trauma that's going on between them and they need to support each other it's not always like that you know um I guess I I don't see the point of making trying to make bonds more realistic um or to try and make bond into the socially responsible uh movie series it was never intended to be anything like that um if you're gonna make if you're gonna do a spy series that is socially responsible then you should have a spy who questions uh the orders that you receive through you should have a spy who looks into his own government and finds out who he's really working for what they're really about what their agendas are not just the agendas of the enemy um if you're going to do a socially responsible spy film you go down that route and that would involve uh James Bond going off in a direction that would be unrecognizable from anything we've seen before it's like an underpinning there's an underpinning of the Bond movies where his own government is always in the right it's always trustworthy it might make some mistakes but it's got the right ideas it's you know at heart and therefore he is Justified in killing people blowing things up whatever attacking enemies in order to defend what his government has ordered him to do you know that was always a a naive aspect of bond um and it's almost like it's like bond is a um it's like he's a man's life you know um he's brainwashed into thinking that he should spend his life putting himself in danger in order to protect who who are these people who give them the orders you know I think they played with that realistic on bond I would say drop that stuff sure they I think they play with that a little bit in Goldeneye in the antagonism between 007 006 who betrays England and you know Sean Bean is questioning for England you know he's only he's only a colleague he doesn't need to show him being character I'm talking about the people who are high up above bomb absolutely but I think that's in in the second definition of the shadow that I was mentioning that's interesting in Goldeneye because 006 is like a double O who begins presumably to question the the righteousness of the British government and the orders and like goes Rogue and betrays the government and so he's like the shadow side of 007 who's just is blindly obeying orders and doing everything for Queen and country that's actually an interesting antagonist which film is that in that's golden eye yeah it's one of the best parts of that film is I like gold knife because it was a decent Bond Sean Bean as as Alex trevillian was was fantastic there is a there's a spy movie that kind of off top of my head that does do that it's not an action-packed spy movie but it's called the lives of others have you seen that one Rob very very good yeah a lot of the things that that you discussed that movie didn't get talked about very much no I think it did win you're one of the very very few it's a great film I I think I saw that one in the theaters a long time ago did It win best foreign picture I'm not I'm not sure I think it did win some awards won some awards somewhere I can't remember why it it got some good recognition when it came out and it just seems to have been largely forgotten about in film discussion since then I'd even forgotten about it myself for years yeah that was a pretty good one I have to know um do you have a favorite Bond I have a soft spot for more too because the very first Bond movie I saw was um The Man with the Golden Gun yeah and uh which I think It's actually an underrated Bond but it certainly is one of the best uh and so I grew up kind of with Roger Moore well I mean what I what I love about um Roger Moore is that he's the happiest Bond if you were going to pick any of the bonds and live there life had picked the Roger Moore one because it just seems to be really cheerful and happy everywhere he goes and none of the bad things that happened seem to make it dense in him emotionally you know um he lives a great life and he's a real charmer and he's hilarious he has a laugh I wouldn't want to live the Daniel Craig Bond life because he's too miserable and angry and depressing I find it boring I don't like people like that I like people who've got a bit of life to them and people who they don't just take all the punches that life has got to give and get back up and fight back they actually come back fighting and they're happy as well they stay happy despite the traumas I think um for me the new the new Bond is kind of like a symptom of something that's been going on for a long time where um people value anger and uh self-pity far too much you never got Roger More pity and himself in the the bond role you know I mean even the actor Roger Moore didn't take the role seriously um but yeah it's like this like the bond who has to be pitied because this happened to him when he was a child or he got his heart broken and blah blah blah blah for me bond isn't a character you're supposed to Petty he's supposed to be someone who bounces back strong and positive every time you know so I love that it's not realistic but for me that's a much better fantasy uh as a bond I think I can respect that I mean I I understand that if you can get through something but you're so traumatized by having passed through it that you're devoid of any Joy or meaning then that's certainly a pure Victory isn't it it's not it's not a victory it's all really is and you might physically survive but you your emotions haven't survived if you if you stay in trauma Zone do you have a favorite film favorite movie out of the uh series out of the bond series yeah mine again this is an unpopular choice but I love Moonraker I love Moonraker too yeah I did when the when the pandemic just started uh I did a a bondathon I did a tournament of all the movies I'm a huge Bond nerd and Moonraker got really really far it's like the apotheosis of just the the bonds fantasy it's like the formula is cubed it's just bond to the moon it's so over the top and it's so like self-aware of being over the top it's it's just a joy to watch it's so much fun and it's it's there's so much good stuff to say about I mean it's gorgeously shot cinematography and moon record is fantastic you know not just a special effects but just beautifully shop throughout and um I mean I mean the themes of it are fantastic as well you know it's uh particularly with the pandemic you cut this guy in the space station in the movies fairly use like uh genetically engineered whatever the hell he says to kill people not that I'm saying that the the pandemic was that well it's crossed all of our minds at some point anyone who says it hasn't crossed their mind is a liar it could well have been I don't know um but yeah but there's also a massive uh overlap between Moonraker and Dr Strangelove and 2001 A Space Odyssey and this is true I've documented this in some videos before um this very specific references to uh 2001 Space Odyssey in the novelization of Moonraker which was written alongside with the movie um yeah just loads and loads of great it's even got the thing which uh I I don't the only other movie I can think of that does this Starship Troopers where um Moonraker shows a a future Hitler type character and he was supposed to be a Hitler type character like a Doctor Strange Love German character but he made they used a french actor because they needed to film in France when they were making Moonraker and he did a great job I can't remember the actor's name who played the villain but you know french actor he was superb but that character was scripted to be very specifically um so so he he had a German history um that he was an ex-nazi you know and so in Moonraker that character shows up and he's creating this new master race and um Bond sort of points this out later um when they're arguing on the space station about his vision of the future but his totalitarian Master race is a multicultural word he hasn't gone the Hitler route he's gone beyond the path of I'm going to take these couples of all the different races I'm going to bring them along and I'm going to create um a version of Hitler's um ideas about how the world was going to be but I'm going to make it Multicultural version of it and so Moonraker did that back in 1979 and for me that that that was a crystal ball ahead towards we've got now because a lot of the people who are pushing um the multiculturalism and diversity stuff don't give a damn about that stuff that's a tool that they are using to divide people that's the way I view it um it's a lot of rich white people who are pushing that stuff to get other people attacking each other on the basis of race gender stuff like that and and that prevents people from actually looking at the very super Richard that's often saying hang on what are they doing to us yet divide and conquer so I think that's been happening in a while then I think Moonraker predicted that and the other movie that predicted that was Starship Troopers because it showed them a future Society where um you have men and women as equally equally as soldiers um fighting in the battlefield and stuff and um and you have all the different races together and it's like we've got this big diverse future Society but it's a totalitarian one anyway you know so that those are the only two movies I can think of that tapped into that so that was one good aspect of the moon right that's fascinating yeah I I did notice that in the film when I rewatched it that it was uh not going the pure Airy and bloodline route when they did show the um the couples that were selected to repopulate Earth but they were all like beautiful and I presumably you know very genetically healthy like they were they were tested and uh you know for their which defeat defeats the points of diversity they're not diverse in terms of their level of Health well that's certainly true so it's just taken Hitler's Doctrine and instead of basing it on one single race we're gonna base it on the most healthy beautiful specimens you know which how is that any better yeah yeah there is a uh there's a lot of uh history that people don't understand about the like Eugenics movement there was a Eugenics movement in the United States that predated the uh Eugenics movement in Europe uh they were on laws on the books in several U.S states until I think maybe the 60s or 70s with mandatory sterilization of certain individuals that were uh yeah say cognitively impaired for instance um you know pretty pretty nasty laws but the the idea that we can um we can move in the direction of that certain certain parts certain types of individuals are really corrupting the nature of society and it's it's our responsibility to cleanse Society of these folks I mean that's a very old idea and I don't know if it's ever going away it sounds like what you're arguing is that it's it's just been transmitted into something that is absolutely more socially acceptable and because of that it's harder to see find it harder to see so maybe a lot of people do um yeah yeah I made a video about the department of the jungian Shadow thing that well you know which is you know like I said Carl Jung said this goes on with all laws uh with the Nazis uh We've bought the Nazis and they are the evil ones completely utterly evil and we are absolutely right to fight and defeat them and do whatever is necessary to defeat them but we're not recognizing that what is there in the Nazis is there in us as well in Britain and America and everywhere else it was true back then it was still true now I mean if I remember rightly Than That season some of their propaganda stuff they used to put out um they would actually point out how um the UF streets uh blacks you know and um that was well they will put that out as part of their propaganda but there was some truth to it you know so you got two sides who uh who've got racism going on lots of different groups each criticizing each other's racism it's just Shadow stuff projectional you know from both you see that yeah I I do I I I'm conscious of the time and I've really enjoyed the conversation so far Rob I I will um also mention since we're talking about Moonraker the you you called to my attention this perceptual illusion about Dolly's braces I I had to go back and watch that movie as soon as I saw that video because I could not believe you I had this incredibly strong memory of seeing Dolly's mouth break into a racist-filled smile when she died and I was like there's no way I've seen that movie 40 times I know that by heart and she doesn't have braces it was so it was so incredible and I I think your explanation for why that perceptual illusion existed in the minds of so many people uh I think it was um you know persuasive so thanks for bringing that to my attention well I hope it was because I can't find that footage the original footage in there yeah I sure thought she did but I went at least on the DVD versions I had the VHS versions back when I was a kid I don't think I have them anymore um I did notice you've only saw no time to die once so you probably wouldn't catch this but there was changes in the movie from the theatrical release to the DVD release they're not the same film I don't know why they did this but there were they changed the scene between Bond and uh the villain who who what's his name Lucifer it's like Lucifer luciferon or something like that I can't remember I can't even remember the the character that Randy Malek plays when Bond confronts him in his Fortress and they have that back and forth about like some men I remember very explicitly in the theater as it was a very weird shot where usually they do this um you know the kind of perspective taking back and forth within the conversation and then there was this shot where the camera looks right at Bond and bond looks right into the camera which never happens and he basically says some people don't you know want to play God and it was just this really jarring shot that doesn't exist in the DVD release and there's a few other lines that have been changed and the shots have been changed I think as far as I can tell only in that conversation and I have not been able to find any information about this on the internet I don't know if anybody else has even noticed this but I guarantee I'm remembering this correctly because it was such a jarring change and that kind of you know close up into the camera look these things do happen don't they do you think that happened with Dolly's braces I'm thinking I'm thinking it's possible because you think that you have this strong memory of the braces I think I have a strong memory the braces but why would they that doesn't make sense that they would like get rid of braces from the VHS you did mention before that there was uh the thing about when you were younger you watched the movie on VHS yeah and yeah I think I put that in the video I did about it where when you're watching the VHS because it's a a lower resolution image you're going to be more likely to perceive braces there um you know often watching the HD movie makes it look so much different visually and there's been times when I've done studies of movies uh years like some of my early film studies I had to rely on uh DVDs I didn't have there wasn't really hardly any HD movies out back then when I first started doing film analysis and there would be points where I would thought that I could see certain things in the certain movies and then when I get the HD version suddenly it's more clear so that's what it is okay I would never have been able to guess that so it could be something like that I always thought though that it was such a clever little visual thing that the directors were doing because you have Jaws who's this monstrous yeah not only is he tall but he's monstrous because he has this like bunch of metal in his mouth and you would think he'd be terrifying to this small little girl and then when she smiles she has metal in her mouth too yeah it makes total sense that the braces should be there yeah um definitely and the way she slowly Smiles you you think oh there's going to be a slow revealing of the of the braces there and yeah it is it's a it's a an incredible illusion there unless there it really is some sort of uh conspiracy where the footage got changed or something I don't know it was uh I don't I don't think so I don't know why they would take the braces out but I I want to know why they changed the dialogue in that scene in no time to die so if anybody out there knows please get in touch with me uh Rob I feel like I could talk to you all day but I want to be respectful of your time uh anything else you'd like to say uh not that I can think of no I can't remember if there was any other subjects we wanted to discuss uh I mean what about if there's any last topic you'd like to quickly cover or you know whatever um well we can leave Bond um I I'd like to know maybe if you have any film recommendations for folks out there I I have the Criterion channel do you have that Rob I haven't got the channel no but I've got lots of movies that are from the Criterion Collection I don't get any kind of Kickback from saying this but I highly recommend that people look into the possibility of getting a Criterion Channel subscription it is fantastic it's 100 bucks a year and you get access to thousands and thousands of like the highest grade World Cinema Classics um movies that are very hard to find anywhere certainly you're not going to find them on Netflix um and so that's really helped me to broaden my cinematic Horizons but um always looking to know where I'm what I'm missing so do you have any recommendations for folks okay so I was trying to think of some amazing movies which hardly anybody knows about so talks about and one spring Springs to mind came out the same year as 2001 A Space Odyssey but it cleared up at the Oscars was the musical version of Oliver you know Oliver Twist sure I saw that a long time ago yeah that is an amazing movie on all kinds of levels wow I haven't seen it in a while in a long time do you think that's that movie's so great and the size of the production is just incredible just on the pure technicality of the scale of the production the songwriting and musical score is incredible I don't even like musicals generally it's usually my least favorite genre and for me that's the best music I've ever made I like pretty much all the songs in it um the the actors the set designs you know the many um classic performances in it and Oliver Reed was amazing because Bill Sykes and yeah you've got tears it's Tom Moody as Place Fagan um there's just so much good stuff in that movie I've been wanting to make a video about it for years but not really good I did make a short video on the bill Sykes character oh yeah that's a movie that uh still massively impresses with me today um I think partially I like it because it gets into this really dark aspect of uh history how people lived and suffered and died in in parts of Britain back then and um but the subject matter is so grim that the movie has to use a musical presentation in order to stop in the blow for the audience if it was just done in this with the same crew and director and everything um with no musical aspects of it I think it would have been too Grim for people um so yeah I think the the the musical frame and of it makes it very palatable yeah that's fantastic one of my one of my top 20 favorite movies of it that's a strong recommendation I watched a long time ago when I went through all of the best picture um films I haven't seen it in years but on that recommendation I will check it out again yeah call Rob if people want to know more about your stuff where can they find you uh on the YouTube channel collatedlearning.com c-o-l-a-t-i-v-e correlative learning or on the website of the same name and um yeah yeah this is a couple hundred videos there on the YouTube channel some of them are really long like two hours long so we'll be just short ones and then on the website there's uh articles and stuff available there as well yeah I'll put those film analysis but sometimes on psychology stuff as well I'll put links in the descriptions for folks and some of those videos are definitely worth watching even the longer ones um especially the ones on The Shining uh blew my mind man so really great work thank you so much for talking to me today thanks for having me on it's a pleasure talking to you yeah thanks Rob all right let's touch all right bye

Channel: PsycHacks

Views: 14,909

Keywords: Orion Taraban, Jordan Peterson, psychacks, mental health podcast, psychology podcast, relationship podcast, relationship podcast for couples, relationship podcast for singles, dating podcast, dating coach, dating coach tiktok, dating advice, dating advice tiktok, best dating podcast, best psychology podcast, chris williamson, relationship podcast for guys, dating advice for guys, stellargre, rob ager, collative learning, film analysis, kubrick, james bond, 007, daniel craig

Id: sEegdBW1jpI

Length: 79min 1sec (4741 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 16 2023