Roald Dahl books censored: 'You should be ASHAMED' - David Starkey clashes with Rebecca Reid

now on to our generation gap debate which this week we've had two stories haven't we dominating the agenda we've had brexit and then we've had the Roald Dahl story so I'm going to be asking my panelists is this censorship of literary Classics a sign of cultural vandalism I'm joined by the historian Dr David Starkey who is going to argue I'm sure that it is and I'm also joined by Rebecca Reed author and broadcaster we can agree without being insensitive to your ages that there is a generation gap here huge fair enough now David kick us off because we've now got another story in the telegraph this morning suggesting that some of Ian Fleming's books are now being edited and maybe that's right because it's different to the dial situation there are some racially very dodgy references in there but as a general rule should we be censoring children's books it depends on the children's book I mean remember you used a word in your introduction which is the key word classic what a classic meme most books die most books the thing your books and my books will almost certainly they are things of the moment when you take when you call something a classic you mean it's worth reprinting it's worth surviving because it is an object out there and it's for you the reader to adjust to the classic not for the classic to adjust to you that's why we revive the culture of the ancient world with the original classics it's why you talk about classical music and again I think that the really important thing is do we see books just as another commercial product you know we've got more I mean I read a lovely thing that you did about coffee and and Diet Coke is is it simply a question of I prefer coffee here too dark okra I prefer dark is it another consumer product if it's if a book is just another consumer product do you know what it doesn't matter depends what you think it is what its purpose is what's even the purpose of getting a child to read yes I think the difficulty is that a child reader doesn't have full con full context when a child reads something particularly if they don't have parents who are involved who are there to have discussions with them there is a sort of loco parentis role from the publisher to make sure that they're able to read that in a safe way and I'm not a huge believer in safe spaces for adults but for children particularly with children without parents to explain in some music sorry be realistic is a child that doesn't have a parent to explain going to be given a role doll because I'm in the library at school they are available everywhere but surely in that case it's the job of the teacher the idea that you have a sensitivity reader in loco parentis I mean what an absurd notion is it different if it's a librarian at school or it's a publisher it's still somebody making a decision about how children should contact and textualized reading ultimately somebody has to be responsible the old Enid Blyton books have language in that would be basically illegal to say to somebody now we have to accept that some books have to be adapted particularly with racism wouldn't it be more honest to say let's abandon them what all this what all this is about so you've conceded my case you're saying a book is simply a product yeah this I fully agree I do think that well then in that case we can abandon the discussion all that we think then reading is is a form of child minding it is no more than giving the child sweets I think reading is a challenge I think the reason you are here and I think the reason I'm here is that we will once challenging repeatedly challenged in childhood and the whole point about good children's books like doll is that they challenge that they're not Pap that they're not just Diet Coke you want to feed your child Diet Coke you want the feet you want to feed your child the equivalent of McDonald's I am not the kind of parent who does that sort of like oh she's so amazing she's a reading escalate that's not me I think reading should be enjoyable it should be fun there is no I'm almost home do you see any place for challenge do you see any place shouldn't a child above all be going to a parent and saying explained I've been told this is a naughty word wouldn't it make much more sense rather than suppressing of course they've been told Rebecca respond I mean I think as well Dr Starkey makes this point some of the stuff that was um edited out was pretty harmless you know I don't understand why it's a problem for children too see depictions of witches um wearing wigs and having difficult fingers very complicated is interesting every single fairy story has been changed to make it more appropriate for children with every generation you do not read at the moment you do not currently read children stories where Cinderella sisters cut their toes off with a meat Carver which is exactly what happened in the original version all of you they do and I think if you have a safe home with parents who can contextualize it you can absolutely allow them to have some gorans for fear but you don't know which child is reading it and realistically every single one of these stories that's the oral tradition stories change with everything on that Maxim then you could be saying to yourself okay well maybe we shouldn't have Cinderella because it might be offensive to kids from Blended families you know it's got the wicked stepmother and the Ugly sisters people with club feet like I mean it's very difficult to put on a glass slipper but coming to tell me just tell me tell me just read Snow White sorry what I would absolutely avoid Snow White on the basis that I think kissing a passed out person is completely inappropriate I or I would read it and have the conversation where I'd be like just so you know if you're passed out people shouldn't try I mean is this for consenting um this is this is silly and it's pathetic and you are on the side of the Puritans you're a new bowdler you're a new Paul IV wanting to go and stick fig leaves on statues ashamed of it isn't your is it yours a generation which is simply pathetic and frightened and suppressing and puritanical I thought we'd say must answer that I mean there are so I think you're a purity there is a cycle of puritanism some generations are more conservative than others and that has always been the case it's moved from generations to generation however I would say I'm not being puritanical because I would like children to be able to read stories without absorbing incredibly dangerous messages with no one to unpack it for them Define what's incredibly dangerous in in for instance the twits I mean incredibly dangerous would be oversizing it but in the twit there is a whole passage about how if you're a nice person you will have a nice face and look nice and if you're a bad person you'll be ugly that is a pretty toxic thing to say to children that people who aren't facially pleasing or inherently bad people that's not great is it well you know that kids just stop reading dull what you should be doing you should be writing exactly like Diet Coke it wants to be sweet it wants to be pink it wants to be absolutely safe it wants to leave children with no thoughts but a much more interesting question are you keen on censorship just for children wouldn't you like to see everything since would you give your child everyone believes in sensitive for children nobody is saying to Children let's watch Pulp Fiction everybody believes on a certain Tuesday what about reading the Bible right what about starting Bible is self-fulfilling because it's so boring children don't care what what about I think many children have to read it and many more have to read the Quran and the Quran has got much more shocking things than it than Ronald you are wanting to Sense little stories by doll what about the things in the Quran what about the condemnation of homosexuality of jewels of Christians what about the notion of murder and the cause of the faith now do you think children read that children are compelled to read that really quick response because we shouldn't that be censored should it be censored Rebecca I do think that all children who are exposed to religion should be given in context and should be given it an age you want the Quran censored I think this has become intellectually dishonest at this point we like some intellectual honesty we also like some good banter from both of you and it's been brilliant

Channel: GBNews

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Length: 8min 34sec (514 seconds)

Published: Sun Feb 26 2023