Richard Dawkins: "The God Delusion" (Full Documentary)

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[Music] [Applause] [Music] of all the issues human society faces today religion remains one of the most divisive and destructive I hope you find this film on it interesting there are lots of people who have been brought up in some religion or other are unhappy in it don't believe it or a worried about the evils that are done in its name there are people who feel vague yearnings to leave their parents religion and wish they could but just don't realize that leaving is an option I've written a book called The God Delusion aimed at those people the book inspired a short documentary series for channel 4 on the dangers of religion called root of all evil now we've made a single film called The God Delusion from that series the film explores a world increasingly polarized by religion with the atrocities of 9/11 and 7/7 still raw memories in America's Midwest and in Israel it became apparent how Pro otherwise sane people are to extremism once they indulge in faith belief without evidence when they give up reason this film takes a hard look at the very concept of faith how it behaves like a kind of brain virus infecting generations of young minds how it perpetuates outdated and dubious moral values religion deserves to be scrutinized far more critically than it normally is I feel passionately about this if the film does just one thing I hope it encourages people to start questioning why the strange distorted mindset of religious faith should automatically demand and usually receive our society's respect [Music] there are would-be murderers around the world who want to kill you and me and themselves because they're motivated by what they think is the highest ideal of course politics are important Iraq Palestine even social deprivation in Bradford but as we wake up to this huge challenge to our civilised values don't let's forget the elephant in the room an elephant called religion the suicide bomber is convinced that him killing for his God he will be fast-tracked to a special martyrs heaven this isn't just a problem of Islam in this program I want to examine that dangerous thing that's common to Judaism and Christianity as well the process of non-thinking called faith I'm a scientist and I believe there is a profound contradiction between science and religious belief there is no well demonstrated reason to believe in God and I think the idea of a divine creator belittles the elegant reality of the universe the 21st century should be an age of reason yet irrational militant faith is back on the march religious extremism is implicated in the world's most bitter and unending conflicts we want the non-muslims off the reins of Muhammad's we want the qu4 out of it America too has its own fundamentalists the issue for the next generation is going to be the islamification of Europe and in Britain even as we live in the shadow of holy terror our government wants to restrict our freedom to criticize religion science we are told should not tread on the toes of theology but why should scientists tiptoe respectfully away the time has come for people of Reason to say enough is enough religious faith discourages independent thought its divisive and it's dangerous [Music] [Music] it looks lovely doesn't it inoffensive and gentle but isn't this the beginning of that slippery slope that leads to young men with rucksack bombs on the tube [Music] if you want to experience the medieval rituals of faith the candle light incense music important-sounding dead languages nobody does it better than the Catholics at Lourdes in southern France the assault on the senses appeals to us not to think not to doubt not to probe and if we can retain our faith against the evidence in the teeth of reality the more virtuous we are pretty impressive sight isn't it I could imagine finding it very seductive partly because of the tremendous feeling of group solidarity that there must be if you have the delusion that you are Napoleon it must be a fairly lonely feeling because nobody else agrees with you your faith that young Napoleon needs a lot of shoring up but these people here thousands of people all has exactly the same delusion that must give wonderful reinforcement to their faith [Music] I used to think reason had won the war against superstition but it's quite shaking to witness the faithful droves trooping through Lourdes this is a benign herd but it supports a backward belief system that I believe reason must challenge [Music] daylight reveals more of this shrine where a myth is perpetuated that a virgin who gave birth Christ's mother Mary appeared here once to an impressionable and I do mean impressionable young girl the faithful make the pilgrimage here because they believe that terrible afflictions can be cured by dragging their poor bodies up to a pool of water where the Virgin Mary made her miraculous appearance in reality they're probably more likely to catch something from the thousands of other pilgrims who've wallowed in the same water [Music] is it something that Catholics feel they ought to do in their life rather like Muslims going on the Hajj to Mecca yes and and what what are you hoping to get out of it well I have I've got a lot out of it I got faith I've got trust yes and a belief that there is a person up there stronger than any medical person right what about a cure it may seem tough to question these poor desperate people's faith but isn't bracing truth better than false hope [Music] what is the evidence for any miracles there are actually 66 declared miracles there are about 2,000 unexplained cures here but then we will say there are millions of people who have been healed in different ways healed in some sort of medicine healing spiritual spiritual way are people who have come to terms with their own particular situation people who have rediscovered God in their lives again people who have received a new grace here endured so you tend to get about 80,000 per year about 80,000 sick pilgrims who come every year that's been going on for more than a century now a century and a half yes so 80,000 per year and of those 66 have been cured I'm just you see what the way I'm thinking so the hard fact is that over the years with their millions of pilgrims there have been 66 supposed miracles statistically it adds up to no evidence at all I can't help remarking that nobody has ever had a miraculous regrowing of a severed leg the cures are always things that might have got better anyway people lean on their faith as a crutch but I fear the comfort it provides is a shallow pretence and I want to look at how the suspension of disbelief inherent in faith can lead to far more dangerous ideas beyond [Music] [Music] people like to say that faith and science can live together side by side but I don't think they can they're deeply opposed science is a discipline of investigation and constructive doubt questing with logic evidence and reason to draw conclusions faith by stark contrast demands a positive suspension of critical faculties science proceeds by setting up hypotheses ideas or models and then attempt to disprove them so a scientist is constantly asking questions being skeptical religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time [Music] let me give you an example of this with the story of the Assumption of Mary Catholics believed that Jesus's mother Mary was so important she didn't physically die instead her body shot off into heaven when her life came to a natural end of course there's no evidence for this even the Bible says nothing about how Mary died the belief that her body was lifted into heaven emerged about six centuries after Jesus's time made up like any tale and spread by word of mouth but it became established tradition it was handed down over centuries and the odd thing about tradition is that the longer it's been going the more people seem to take it seriously it's as though sheer passage of time makes something that was to begin with just made-up turns it into what people believe as a fact by 1950 the tradition was so strongly established that it became official truth it became Authority the Vatican decreed that Roman Catholics must now believe in the doctrine of the Assumption of the virgin now if you had asked Pope Pius the 12th how he knew it was truth he would have said you had to take his word for it because it had been revealed to him by God he shut himself away and thought about it he just thought private thoughts inside his own head and convinced himself no doubt on tortuous theological grounds that it just had to be so [Music] none of this is particularly harmful when it is limited to the Virgin Mary going to heaven but what about the Pope's personal convictions when it comes to say discouraging the use of condoms in aids ridden Africa then the power of the church through tradition Authority and revelation comes with an appalling human cost [Music] it would be unfair to pick on the Catholics all religion they're up to the same tricks it could be muslim imams issuing fatwas it's the same principle it's issued by the authority and then passes down through the ranks to parents to children and all without a shred of evidence [Music] unlike science which sees it as a challenge religion thrives on unsolved mystery for early humanity what was mysterious and unexplained was so vast that only an equally vast higher being an alpha male in the sky could fill that gap how would our ancestors have responded to the sunrise there must be a fiery charioteer a Sun God to accept our sacrifices a Supreme Being who on the first day of creation announced let there be light but scientific investigation has rolled back that mystery today we know the Sun is a giant nuclear reactor one of billions of stars pumping out electromagnetic radiation heat and light [Music] how do scientists know the things that they know about the world and the universe how do we know for instance that the earth is four-and-a-half million years old and that it orbits the Sun that nourishes it how do we know that these dinosaurs are hundreds of millions of years old the answer is evidence tons and tons of mutually supporting evidence science is about testing comparing and corroborating this mass of evidence and using it to update old theories of how things work I do remember one formative influence in my undergraduate life there was an elderly professor in my department who had been passionately keen on a particular theory for a number of years and one day an American visiting researcher came and he completely and utterly disproved our old man's hypothesis the old man strode to the front shook his hand and said my dear fellow I wish to thank you I have been wrong these 15 years and we all clapped our hands raw that was the scientific ideal of somebody who had a lot invested a lifetime almost invested in the theory and he was rejoicing that he had been shown wrong and that scientific truth had been advanced so what does the overwhelming evidence of all these fossils tell skeptical science how did we and every creature get here in all our improbable diversity in past centuries humanity had no choice but to resort to a supernatural hypothesis among the many creation myths around the world the book of Genesis imagined a designer God who fashioned the world and life in just six days [Music] finally in the 19th century science piece together what had really happened Charles Darwin hit upon a truly brilliant idea that elegantly explains all of life on Earth without any need to invoke the supernatural or the divine [Music] here's a helpful way to look at the problem Darwin faced climbing a mountain let's call it Mount improbable let's say at the bottom we have the simple bacterial beginnings of life on Earth at the top man today or any complicated piece of biology so how did we get to the top if it had happened by blind chance or by design it would be equivalent to leaping up a sheer cliff in a single bound utterly out of the question if we come round the other side of Mount improbable we find something very different here there's no sudden precipitous cliff here there's a gentle slope a gradient of evolution all we have to do is put one foot in front of the other and we'll get to the top Darwin's great insight was that life evolved steadily and slowly inching its way gradually over four billion years natural selection not a divine designer was the sculptor of life [Music] so evolution driven by Darwin's motor of natural selection gets us to the top of Mount improbable from primeval simplicity to ultimate complexity the design hypothesis couldn't even begin to do that because it raises an even bigger problem than it solves who made the designer the abundance and variety of life on Earth may seem improbable but it's self-evidently futile to invent an improbable God to explain that very improbability I thought that in my lifetime evolution would be accepted and taught around the world as a scientific fact supported by overwhelming evidence but unfortunately the whole point about faith is that even massive and constantly accumulating physical evidence cuts no ice evolution today is under threat in the Bible Belt of Middle America evangelical Christians are fighting back against science in the new world religion is free-enterprise rival groups set up shop on every street corner competing to save people's souls and collect their money fundamentalist Christianity is on the rise among the electorate of the world's only superpower right up to and including the president if you believe the surveys 45% of Americans that's about a hundred and thirty five million people believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old [Music] whenever this is the New Life Church in Colorado Springs where conservative Christians have built an 18 million dollar Worship Center as their New Jerusalem in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains evangelical churches like this have become a powerful lobby exerting enormous influence on everything in America from the teaching of science in schools to foreign policy this place strains belief it isn't just a church but a ready-made social network the 12,000 strong congregation can also attend 1,300 organized programs where they can lead to exchange Christian tips on everything from marriage to dog walking [Music] it's all terribly exuberant and intense much less tradition here than in Lourdes but plenty of swaggering Authority [Music] the pasta is Ted Haggard a powerful man chairman of the National Association of Evangelicals and the new life is Ted's evangelical Vatican [Applause] even to your right to your left that are visiting here with us today if you're here for the very first time we have a packet of information that we want to give to you sadly the warmth of the Welcome would prove short-lived when I started talking to Pastor Haggard about the Bible and scientific fact you'll find yourself wrong on some things right on some other things but please in the process of it don't be arrogant all right let's all pray together father in the mighty name of the Lord Jesus we love you and we praise you we exalt you here this morning Lord God everything that's within us wants to give you praise and glory and honor because we are so grateful for what the New Life Church in Colorado Springs who is a bastion of American religious conservatism I've come to try to understand why what I see as irrational faith is thriving and why it's attacking a science posture Ted Haggard has a hotline to God and to George Bush a staunch Republican he claims he has a weekly conference call with the president and has also rubbed shoulders with Tony Blair and Ariel Sharon well that was really quite a show you gave us today a fair bit of money seems to have been spent yes yes I wanted people to be able to worship and enjoy it and in be in a setting where the speaker is close to them that's why it's in the round and so they can be up close to me and so I can look at them well it's certainly very effective what you do I mean it seemed to me to have all the the arts of I mean I was almost reminded if you'll forgive me force of Nuremberg rally I mean such incredibly dr. Goebbels would have been proud I don't know anything about the nürnberg rallies but I know lots of Americans think of it as a rock concert [Music] [Music] your way when I prepare a presentation I don't prepare it to get a group of lunatics to come in and just say oh yes pastor Ted you're just so wonderful I believe everything you say I would be opposed to that here the Bible says who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father this is talking about us we've been chosen for every person needs at the center some sense of meaning about existence it is life and death to us it makes us who we are yet most of us as we grow up and become responsible adults accept that life is complex that we live in a world of subtle shades not sharp black and white I worry that these born-agains are being persuaded to return to Childish certainties the only truth they need is God God has interpreted for them by their pastor everybody knows that we believe the Bible is the Word of God and today I talked about love your neighbor as yourself now I didn't have to produce evidence sociological evidence or psychological evidence the book is from can you say that ask to think for themselves and they told everything in this book is true because they don't have to believe that the evidence I presented you can go and read this book it says one thing that book says another that book says another that book well the evidence I can present as we've got a book written over 1,500 years by 40 different authors on one subject and it doesn't contradict itself where you can't you can't give me to two experts in certain areas that are in the same generation in the same area of study that don't contradict themselves the beauty of science we have we have lots of evidence than the evidence is all the time coming in constantly changing our minds spray and whereas you have one book which you say doesn't change exactly not even to think for themselves [Music] [Applause] but my biggest concern is that evangelicals like Haggard are foisting evident falsehoods on their flock the evangelicals are denying scientific evidence just to support Bronze Age myths and then of course we need the power of the Holy Spirit we fully embrace the scientific method as American evangelicals and we think as time goes along as we discover more and more facts that we'll learn more and more about how God created the heavens in the scientific method clearly demonstrates that the world is four and a half billion years old we do accept that yeah you know what you're doing is you are you are accepting some of the views that are accepted in some portions of the scientific community as fact where in where in fact your grandchildren might listen to the tape of you saying that and laugh at you you want to bet sometimes it's hard for a human being to study the ear or study the eye and think that happened by accident I beg your pardon did you say by accident yeah what do you mean by accident that the eye just formed itself so who says it did well some evolutionists say not a single one that I've ever met really really oh you obviously know nothing about the subject of your maybe you haven't met the people I have but you see you do understand you do understand that this issue right here of intellectual arrogance is the reason why people like you have a difficult problem with people of faith I don't communicate an air of superiority over the people because I know so much more and if you only read the books I know and if you only knew the scientists I knew then you would be great like me well sir there could be many things that you know well there are other things that you don't know well as you age you'll find yourself wrong on some things right on some other things but please in the process of it don't be arrogant [Music] we just had a rather disconcerting experience we were just packing up our stuff ready to go and he suddenly drove up in his pickup truck and said get off my land immediately I'll have you thrown in jail now--how seized your film and he then is a very curious thing he said you called my children animals afterwards we worked out that what he must have meant was that I talked about evolution he thought I was saying that his flock were animals which of course and since I was because all humans are animals [Music] Haggard's approach is to say let's teach evolution as just another theory alongside the Bible's creation story also called intelligent design which claims God helped evolution along it sounds so reasonable doesn't it [Music] [Applause] but of course it's nothing of the sort these are not equal theories evolution by natural selection is supported by mountains of evidence while creation contradicts the evidence and is only backed by some ancient scribblings with Haggard and his followers on their doorstep the rational atheist minority here feels so browbeaten that they've organized themselves into what they call a free thinkers group which meets furtively perhaps to fantasize about moving to Canada how nice to meet you do free thinkers in America feel pretty beleaguered at the moment I've had my fair share of vitriolic letters and messages from parents saying that I'm Satan's incarnate for teaching evolution and there are ministries here in Colorado Springs that indoctrinate students in summer programs to challenge biologists biology teachers in the in the classroom and with an organized campaign to go there organized campaigns absolutely I do not tolerate it because if a person comes out in this country as an angel they're likely to suffer career damage they might lose a job they might not get a job they might lose an opportunity for an apartment Americans do very late on this coming to a realization as we did during the McCarthy era and even during we do begin now to see the dangers of this extremism Christian fascism and whatever manful do you want to give it which I have heard lately is domination theology double Union who's never become a Christian has gone to the same thing you know was that God forgive them and love them in a Christian heart fundamentalist American Christianity is attacking science but what is it offering instead a mirror image of Islamic extremism an American Taliban we live in a time of lethal polarization when the great religions are pushing their conflict to a point where it is difficult to see how they can ever be reconciled in New York Madrid and London we've witnessed the religious insanities of the Middle East penetrate the heart of the secular West to understand the likes of Osama bin Laden you have to realize that the religious terrorism they inspire is the logical outcome of deeply-held faith even so-called moderate believers are part of the same religious fabric they encourage unreason as a positive virtue what's really scary is that religious warriors think of what they are doing as the ultimate good those of us brought up in Christianity can soon get the message onward Christian soldiers fight the good fight stand up stand up for Jesus he soldiers of the cross but as far as I'm concerned the war between good and evil is really just the war between two evils this is the holy land where the terrible certainties of faith began and still rage I've come here because it's a microcosm of the religious conflicts which threaten rational values and civilization the dreadful combination of politics and extreme faith has caused the death of almost 4,000 people here in shooting suicide bombings and reprisals in the last five years [Music] despite the troubles tourists still flock to Jerusalem to places that their particular brand of religion taught them to revere as a child the Via Dolorosa where Jesus was allegedly whipped and beaten during the last hours of his life or the Muslim Dome of the rock or the Western Wall Judaism's and the world's most holy ruined [Music] very special church because the church on the surface it looks like a place of harmless myth here what we are facing to the strong anointment where the body abuse was taken down from the cross so this is the slab where Christ's body was anointed with oil how do we know that is there any evidence that it was here you see this is by telling from person to person is tradition tradition from generation to the mix yes we can see the hole where the course was stood well they're putting the cross inside the hole and this is the place where the place of the crucifixion and where Jews died on the cross you don't really believe that do you this is the cause as explained to you that they believe this is the place where the crucifixion took place and we can cause our two year to my side please thank you at all of the tomb is a Greek priest the phone regarding the truth of Jesus this is left from the big part of the stone which closed the tomb what we call it the rolling of angels watch your head please thank you very much this is Lois Lane and rose from death we call it's a picker means empty - god bless you come touching the two can make your prayer this holy city has to be one of the least enlightened places in the world and it is also a place of barely suppressed religious hatreds [Music] one of the first things you notice is the edgy watchfulness the different ethnic and religious communities live cheek-by-jowl but there are security checkpoints throughout the old city and one section above all is under heavy guard for the Muslims the compound enclosing the Dome of the rock and L AXA mosque is after Mecca and Medina the third holiest site in Islam it was from here they believe that the Prophet Mohammed flew up to heaven as bad luck would have it the jews believe the same place is the site of the long destroyed first and second temples the holiest shrine in judaism [Music] [Music] Jews are not allowed to worship inside the compound their prayers are restricted to the ruined Western or Wailing Wall when Jesus came here to overturn the tables there was no mosque in view when the Arabs conquered this part of the world they established the al-aqsa mosque and then they put over where we think is the main temple compound where the altar was where the Holy of Holies was they put another building called the Dome of the rock it was not properly a mosque and we at the present moment are simply not allowed in there inside the compound identifiably as Jews the Muslims reject these Jewish claims and when Ariel Sharon entered the Temple Mount area in the year 2000 I came here with the message of peace his visit sparked the second or al-aqsa Intifada a Palestinian uprising that has cost 4,000 lives so far whatever another alia hood as-salaam MA a lot of wool muslimeen were falestine fell yep tied to an illness to the Luxor Mubarak and if the Jews sincerely want peace with the Arabs and the Muslims then they should stand away keep away from the al-aqsa mosque in the Muslim religion there is no possibility any way of sharing of the territory if I come in there in some far corner far away from a mosque in an open area under a tree somewhere if a Muslim will catch me murmuring Psalms or some other prayer he will call the police to have me egressed shall I say as far as the al-aqsa mosque is considered there are no negotiations absolutely no negotiation about it now who'll I am Leah had mineral Muslim in falernum and yet a foul word Allah Gaza because no Muslim has the right worldwide to negotiate over the al-aqsa mosque [Music] again and again my conversation has come back to the solid walls that religion puts up back to implacable faiths my holy book is true I am right he is wrong so I went to meet someone who in my naivety I thought might be able to see both sides of the story Yusuf al-khattab used to be called Joseph Cohen born and brought up as a secular Jew in New York in 1998 he moved to Gaza as a Jewish settler but there he discovered a different God what I noticed coming to this center of world religions was a lot of hatred religion fosters I mean I'm an atheist and I like them rather gentle I don't I don't hate people but it seems to me that I'm hearing hate on all sides and it seems to me all to do with religion I hate atheists because atheists don't care if somebody fornicates in the middle of the street they don't care if their women grow bouncing around on TV topless that makes no difference and they don't believe anything because you don't believe in a set rule and you believe that a constitution can change and you can amend the rules as they go along and you don't believe in God's rule then what law do you have you just have man-made laws I realized I was in the company of someone who has willingly bought into a fundamentalist dogma what do you think about the September the 11th attacks on New York and the um July the same time but sometimes okay since you like to speak about evolution I like the start before what do you think about the Jews that have destroyed over 417 Arab villages including all mosques and Majid's which wouldn't affect you it was you're an atheist so what are you saying that we should sit back and say oh you know what let us progress and let us sit down and drink tea and talk about what to do I think that's the most ridiculous thing all I could say is if there was no quote/unquote State of Israel there would have been no September 11 but if we've all got to live together it's not going to be helped if there are people of very very strong faith who simply know they're right and are not amenable to argument because but there's somebody out there who's just as faithful as you and has his faith just as strong as yours which is opposite to yours they see the problem is Richard I think that you have fear you know that this party of occupying Muslim lands and polluting society with these evil ideas that are around it's not gonna last forever there will always be the soldiers of Allah there to give the response to this so we also want the same thing all we want is that we want the non-muslims at this point off the lands of mohammad salallahu alaihe said him all the lands of Mohammad we want the cool fall out of it do you want Islam to take over the rest of the world of course I wanted to and it will so my advice is to clean up your show at home take your forces off our lands correct yourselves fix your society all right fix your women fix your women that's not my business that's my women's no no it is your business it is your business when you take the women and dress them like whores on the street dress women they dress themselves just now but you allow it as a norm to let the women go on the street dress like this what's going on with your society that I'm interested in religion and people's minds Marie demand we're very worried about you what's going on with the ceiling clearly historic injustice towards the Palestinians breeds hatred and anger but we must face up to the fact that in creating the death cults of suicide bombers its unshakable unreasonable conviction in your own righteous faith that is the key if preachers then tell the faithful that paradise after martyrdom is better than existence here in the real world it's hardly surprising that some crazed followers will actually swallow it leading to a terrible cycle of vendetta war and suffering [Music] I'm here on the Mount of Olives looking out over this beautiful old city we've heard some pretty extreme statements and hatred some bigotry such as I haven't really heard before I don't see what future the world has as long as people think like that and people are going to go on thinking like that as long as they're brought up from childhood from the cradle to think that there's something good about faith to think that there's something good about believing because you've been told to believe rather than believing because you've looked at the evidence [Applause] [Music] I want to say that killing for God is not only hideous murder it is also utterly ridiculous unlike religion science doesn't pretend to know everything there are still deep questions about the origins of the universe that have yet to be explained but just because science can't answer them right now doesn't mean faith tradition revelation or an ancient holy text can science can't disprove the existence of God but that does not mean that God exists there are a million things we can't disprove the philosopher Bertrand Russell had an analogy imagine there's a China teapot in orbit around the Sun you cannot disprove the existence of the teapot because it's too small to be spotted by our telescopes nobody but a lunatic would say well I'm prepared to believe in the teapot because I can't disprove it maybe we have to be technically and strictly agnostic but in practice we are all tea pot atheists but now suppose that everybody in the society the teachers the tribal elders all had faith in the tea pot stories of the teapot have been handed down for generations it's part of the tradition of the society there are holy books about the teapot then somebody who said they did not believe in the teapot might be regarded as eccentric or even mad there's an infinite number of things like celestial teapots that we can't disprove there are fairies there are unicorns hobgoblins we can't disprove any of those but we don't believe in them any more than nowadays we believe in Thor and Monroe or Aphrodite we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in some of us just go one God further [Music] I'm increasingly worried about how faith is undermining science it's something we must resist because irrational faith is feeding murderous intolerance throughout the world [Music] there is something exceedingly odd about the idea of sectarian religious schools if we haven't got used to it over the centuries we'd find it downright bizarre [Music] sectarian education has proved to be deeply damaging it has left a terrible legacy when you think about it isn't it weird the way we automatically label a tiny child with its parents religion [Music] these are Jewish children in another part of Jerusalem we've seen Muslim children in Northern Ireland we have Catholic children Protestant children all going to separate schools but what's so special about religion that it is allowed to label small children Catholic or Protestant Jewish or Muslim nobody would categorize children by the political party their parents support call them Tory or labour children we agree they're too young to know where they stand on questions of politics so why is it not the same for where they stand on the cosmos and humanity's place in it in genetic evolution a species divides into two initially geographically the some initial separation between the two subspecies and they divide away from each other genetically there's no longer gene flow between them and so they can become separate species it's a divisive force the sectarian education acts in a similar way children are initially isolated from each other because of their parents faith then their differences are constantly drilled into them and they embark on opposing life trajectories such divisions are encouraged not just in faraway Israel but right on our doorstep in Northern Ireland for instance or in London in North London the Hasidic Jewish community is the largest after Israel and New York here religious division is taken to its extreme these ultra-orthodox Jews only marry within their sect television is frowned upon and of course children attend exclusive religious schools cloistered away from external influences which just might persuade them to look outside their community I want to find out why these children are being segregated and whether their culture allows them to open their minds to reality how do you do thank you very much rabbi Gluck is London born and bred but you wouldn't necessarily know it his accent is a testament to the isolation of this religious sect why should children be victims of the particular tradition in which they happen to have been born rather than choosing for themselves by being shown all the evidence that's available we are all to a certain extent affected by our surroundings there's no such thing as a person living in a vacuum we're all affected by our parents by a family yes but at the same time we have a choice to stay or otherwise I think it's important for a minority to be able to have a space where it can express itself but can learn about itself well couldn't you preserve the customs the tradition as the history without somehow imposing upon the children views about the universe which modern science would say are simply false I would say impose upon the Jew anything I would say that's something which is impossible I think scientifically impossible we believe that God trade to the world in six days we know about evolution every single Jewish kid knows about evolution and has thought about it that I studied it and as looked at it and has thought what's going on here how many of the children who come up through your system your school system end up believing in evolution I'd I think that the majority don't believe in evolution they but but at the same time it isn't they don't believe because they don't know about it you realize that being taught that the entire world began after what archeologists would recognize as the Agricultural Revolution I mean these children are being brought up in a very distorted world indeed and I worry about children being victims of this kind of what I can only describe as mis-education I find the terms distorted and mis-education rather disturbing Judaism has its tradition I think there are various scientists who have their tradition it's to cool the theory of even because it was so but still but still it's called that and it's not called the law of evolution I will call it the fact of evolution and we know your your fundamentalist believer not a fundamental eva the age of the earth 5000 years I mean that is I'm sorry rabbi that is ridiculous of course rabbi Gluck is right that it's important for us to learn about our own background but what upsets me is that in pursuit of that these innocent children are being saddled with demonstrable falsehoods [Music] and this is not just a problem of the Jewish minority there's pressure from an increasing number of faith schools of other religions to put scientific fact on a par with primitive creation myths in science classes why can't they simply teach science usually this is truth because it's based on evidence they say that you say we're struggling towards the truth and as new evidence comes in we refine it in the middle of that Jesus says I am truth [Music] we live in the shadow of a religiously inspired terror in an era when science has plainly shown religious superstitions to be false and yet it's a strange anomaly that faith schools are increasing number and influence in our education system with active encouragement from Tony Blair's government there are already 7,000 faith schools in Britain but the government's trust reforms are encouraging many more over half the new city academies are expected to be sponsored by religious organisations the most worrying development is a new wave of private evangelical schools that have adopted the American Baptist AC e curriculum accelerated Christian education accelerated Christian education slips religious superstitions back into science if you want to be rude you would say it's program learning if you want to be polite it's individualized instruction so really each one is teaching themselves to a certain extent of course that has to be modified with adult supervision and so on next when you find me outside Atlanta - I had a look at the curriculum books it that you use for science and it was very noticeable that God or Jesus did come on just about every page yes yeah we don't have anything like religious instruction in the school because it is parked as he read it in the in one section in the sounds thing I suddenly I was sort of taken aback because I suddenly started reading about Noah's Ark and what's that got to do with a science lesson I suppose that depends on your opinion it could have a lot if you believe in the story but I mean the stuff that I was taught when I was a kid at school in science now you would laugh hat and say it was a myth but that's what I was taught what's right you took what we're talking but when I was tortoise one of the things that they taught me at school I've always remembered was that the moon came from the ocean here on earth and is flowing into space and that's where it came from what you should have been taught I suppose is that there is a strong current theory that that's what happened so so what you're really trying to ask me is do you think the Genesis story was true and the God created the world in seven days that's what you would really like to ask me right my answer that is I don't know having said that do I think that if God wanted to do it in seven days he could yeah I think you could you do anything so so it's a sort of an academic question which actually I don't care about the arts very much really does that make sense kind of yes it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense to me because I do care about the answer why because I care about what's true and and I I care about what's true yes well III find Christianity encompasses everything about life Christianity is life so it's it's about everything it touches education politics care social services everything seeds let me ask about another thing in the booklet which was about AIDS and HIV I think some where it talks about aids being wages of sin is that mixing health education with moralistic preaching I suppose the flip side of that is that if there is no God and there is no lawgiver why does it matter what I do why-why-why is right wrong Weis pedophilia wrong why are any of these things wrong if there is no lawgiver you've just had a very revealing thing but if those are you telling me that the only reason why you don't steal and rape them and murder is that you're frightened of God I think that all people if they think they can get away with something can it is there is no consequences we actually tend to do that I think that is the reality look at the world in which we live that is the reality okay well I think we better leave it at that Adrienne Hawkes I'm sure is a well-meaning man but why should he impose his personal version of reality on children not only are they encouraged to consider the weird claims of the Bible alongside scientific fact they're also being indoctrinated into what an objective observer might see as a warped morality [Music] let me explain why when it comes to children I think of religion as a dangerous virus it's a virus which is transmitted Part D few teachers and clergy but also down the generations from parent to child to grandchild [Music] children are especially vulnerable to infection by the virus of religion a child is genetically pre-programmed to accumulate knowledge from figures of authority the child brain for very good Darwinian reasons has to be set up in such a way that it believes what it's told by its elders because there just isn't time for the child to experiment with warnings like don't go too near the cliff edge or don't swim in the river there are crocodiles any child who applied a scientific sceptical questioning attitude to that would be dead no wonder the Jesuit said give me the child for his first seven years and I'll give you the man the child brain will automatically believe what it's told even if what it's told is nonsense and then when the child grows up it will tend to pass on that same nonsense to its children deception and so religion goes on from generation to generation are you gonna be nervous when you die setup Oh winner come on shit oh so be winners I'm not sorry seventh for many people part of growing up is killing off the virus of faith with a good strong dose of rational thinking but if an individual doesn't succeed in shaking it off his mind is stuck in a permanent state of infancy and there is a real danger that he will infect the next generation I'm going to meet someone who has experienced religion as child abuse firsthand Jill Mytton was brought up in a strict Christian sect today she's a psychologist who rehabilitates young adults similarly scarred by their narrow religious upbringing they need to be allowed to hear different perspectives on things they need to be allowed to investigate they need to be allowed to develop their critical faculties so that they can take a number of different viewpoints and weigh them up and decide which one is for them they need to find their own pathways not not to be forced into a particular molds of child if I think back to my childhood it's one that's kind of dominated by fear and it was a fear of disapproval while in the present but also of eternal damnation do they get taught about Hellfire and things like that solutely and to a child images of hellfire and gnashing of teeth are actually very real they're not metaphorical at all of course not no if you bring a child up and discourage it from thinking freely and making choices freely then that's that's that's still to me that is it that is a form of mental abuse or psychological abuse or if you tell a child that when it dies is going to roast forever in hell that is abusive yes what do they tell you about it I mean what what what happens in hell it's strange isn't it after all this time it still has the power to affect me when when you when you asked me that question hell is a fearful place it's complete rejection by gods it's complete judgment there is real fire there is real torment real torture and it goes on forever so there is no respite from it [Music] it's deeply disturbing to think that there are believers out there who actively use the idea of Hell for moral policing in the United States christian obsession with sin has spawned a national craze for hell houses morality plays come Halloween freak shows in which the evangelical hobbyhorses of abortion and homosexuality are literally demonized pastor Keenan Roberts is rehearsing a new production of his colorado-based hell-house which he's written and staged for almost 15 years he fervently believes that you have to scare people into being good the call upon my life as a pastor as a minister is to tell people what the book says and what I and we in our church and hundreds of churches across this country and around the world are doing is we have found a very creative effective tool that is getting people's attention he said of the message I believe it [Music] we want to leave an indelible impression upon their life that sin destroys every scene preaches the truth that either sin destroys or Jesus Saves if this is a rehearsal think how horrific the full production must be I presume you have a cut-off age for the for the tour I mean no children below an age of so what what is your cutoff age well over the years of having audiences and people go through this we have come to the decision that the best age for young people is really at 12 worried you if a child of 12 coming to see your performance had nightmares afterwards or do you would you like that I would like them I would like for their life to be changed no matter what I would rather for them to understand that hell is a place that they absolutely do not want to go I would rather reach them with that message at 12 than to not reach them with that message and have them live a life of sin and to never find the Lord Jesus Christ in the case of homosexual marriage what harm does that do why would you be so passionately against that they're living in sin that's your opinion but it's nothing to do with you is it it's a decision it's not my opinion I'm telling you what the Bible says it's the Bible's opinion but these are two people who want to live together isn't it their own business well what right have you to interfere this wood burning in a repulsive lust for one another deceived by all of them that they've been gone gay or joining they're deeply confused lives in this nauseating matrimony 1st Corinthians 6 God says I want them to know homosexuality is sin but you believe it people be on the basis of scriptural authority absolutely yeah unapologetic yes unapologetically but why are you so sure that's right I mean if you think about where the Scriptures come from I mean who wrote them and when and what makes you so confident they're right it's what I believe my name is giel is of why it is a faith issue with me why do you not believe it because of evidence Hell House is the brash end of a much bigger problem with the way religious belief works taken to its extremes as by American evangelists the Bible is scanned for passages to justify right-wing views on abortion and Family Values I'm about to meet a believer who muses the word of God to fight against centuries of human progress I think execution for adultery is not rejected not rejected by whom by you know by the New Testament right not you do you favor execution of adultery I think that's fair to say that that's still a proper punishment that the state ought to prosecute [Music] it's not so bad surely to believe in moral codes handed down to us from the Good Book doesn't the Bible give us a moral framework in which to live well no the holy texts are of dubious origin and veracity and they're internally contradictory and when we look closely we find a system of morals which any civilized person today should surely find poisonous the Old Testament is in every church and synagogue throughout the world and is the root of Judaism Christianity and Islam if your brother the son of your father or of your mother or your son or daughter or the spouse whom you embrace tries to secretly seduce you saying let us go and serve other gods this is God's advice on what to do to a friend or family member who suggests you believe in another deity you must kill me your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death you must stone him to death since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God the God of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction jealous and proud of it petty vindictive unjust unforgiving racist an ethnic cleanser urging his people on two acts of genocide if God doesn't set a good moral example who does Abraham the founding father of all three great monotheistic religions the man who would willingly make a burnt offering of his son Isaac maybe not how about Moses he of the tablets which said thou shalt not kill will the same man it says in the Book of Numbers was incensed by the Israelites merciful restraint towards the conquered midianite people he gave orders to kill all male prisoners and older women but all the women children that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves how is this story of Moses morally distinguishable from Hitler's rape of Poland or Saddam Hussein's massacre of the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs so let's leave Moses out of it but there are lesser characters facing somewhat more everyday moral dilemmas maybe they provide a better role model in the book of Judges a priest was traveling with his wife in Gibeah they spent the night in the house of an old man but during supper a mob came to demand of the host hand over his male guests so that we may know him yes in the biblical sense well the old man replied nay my brethren nay I pray you do not so wickedly behold here is my daughter a maiden and his concubine then I will bring out now and humbly them and do with them what seemeth good unto you but unto this man do not so why are they so enjoy yourselves by raping and humiliating my daughter but show a proper respect for my guest who is after all male whatever else this strange story might mean it surely tells us something about the status of women in this religious Society now of course nice Christians will be protesting everyone knows the Old Testament is deeply unpleasant the New Testament of Jesus they claim undoes the damage and makes it alright yes there's no doubt that from a moral point of view Jesus is a huge improvement because Jesus or whoever wrote his lines was not content to derive his ethics from the scriptures with which he'd been brought up but then it all goes wrong the heart of New Testament theology invented after Jesus's death isn't Paul's nasty sadomasochistic doctrine of atonement for original sin [Music] the idea is that God had himself incarnated as a man Jesus in order that he should be hideously tortured and executed to redeem all our sins not just the original sin of Adam and Eve future sins as well whether we decide to commit them or not [Music] if God wanted to forgive our sins why not just forgive them who is God trying to impress presumably himself since he is judge and jury as well as execution victim to cap it all according to scientific views of prehistory Adam the supposed perpetrator of the original sin never existed in the first place an awkward fact which undermines the premise of Paul's whole tortuously nasty theory oh but of course the story of Adam and Eve was only ever symbolic wasn't it symbolic so Jesus had himself tortured and executed for a symbolic sin by a non-existent individual nobody not brought up in the faith could reach any verdict other than barking mad the strange theology and questionable texts wouldn't matter but for the unfortunate fact that there are people out there who really believe this stuff is the word of God and act on it challenging progressive values and the rule of law if you take the good book to its literal extreme and some people do you can justify murder in 1994 the Reverend Paul Hill shot and killed dr. John Britton outside his abortion clinic in Florida in 2003 Hill was executed for murder but he went to his death claiming his actions were backed by Holy Scripture [Music] I'm going to meet Paul Hills friend and defender the Reverend Michael Bray mr. Bray yes sir hello hello I'm Richard Oakley to meet you sir Michael Bray on what moral basis can he as a Christian defend a self-professed cold-blooded killer your friend Paul hills was convicted of murdering a doctor he took the law into his own hands didn t know Paul Hill by his own testimony acted defensively not in retribution that's the job of the law the job is the job of the law is to is to punish the job of citizens is to is indeed out of love to protect one another does it ever occur to you that that doctor had a wife to grieve for him and Paul Hill killed him now the embryos that Paul Hill was defending they were tiny little things without any knowledge without any memory without any fears without all the things that a full-grown adult doctor hand doesn't that give your conscience a little bit of it too much I don't think we measured that the value of someone by their their their cognizance of their surroundings or their even their relationships the value that we give human beings historically and thankfully from the Scriptures is that they are created in God's image and they are they have a certain sanctity because of that so whether they be imbeciles to most sensible people Bray's fellow clergyman Paul Hill looks like a dangerous psychopath writing what he perceived as wrong by committing another more terrible wrong yet people like Hill and Bray don't see the world that way they declare that their justification is in the Bible and by read eclair in the Bible as the absolute Word of God they give their actions validity many of us who don't subscribe to any particular holy book worry about suffering we actually worry about whether the victim of a murder whether it's a murderer of our and you're in your terms event of an embryo or of an adult doctor I mean can you not see that there's a big imbalance there between between those two those two deaths well I couldn't take into account because I'm not omniscient to know all the sufferings that various people suffer when do you think he is but oh I have high hopes that he's doing well you think he's in heaven yes you think Jesus approves of murdering doctors I think that he said that he said that we're to love the children just as we love others suffer the little children to come to me I reckon I have a fairly strong moral conviction as well but I'm not that confident I wouldn't like to go and kill somebody for the sake of my morality how can you be that confident I think my own confidence I guess has come with with time the more I I think the Scriptures the more I live the the more satisfied I am intellectually that they interpret reality for me it was curious I'd quite liked him I thought he was sincere I thought he wasn't really an evil person and I was reminded of a quotation by the famous American physicist Stephen Weinberg Nobel prize-winning theoretical physicist Weinberg said religion is an insult to human dignity without it you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things but for good people to do evil things it takes religion people like Michael Bray are a big problem for Christian morality not all Christians are as rooted in the soil of Scripture but they do all take inspiration from the same holy texts but who is right the established Church of England is being painfully torn apart by these differences of opinion over the scriptures the battleground is not so much abortion but homosexuality and gay clergy on one side are vociferous scriptural purists on the other more moderate believers who interpret the Bible selectively you're only liberal wing of the Anglican Church maybe the other side are the ones who are being true to their scriptures in a way that you're not I mean you who are liberal and much closer to what I would would think are the one who's departing from the certainly from the scriptural and perhaps from the fundamentals well if you take the issue of homosexuality there's no doubt about it there are a number of texts not as many as people think but a few texts which clearly regard homosexuality as wrong both in the Old Testament very strongly but there also there in the New Testament but of course it's a question of how you interpret the Bible whether it's really right to just simply with extract a few isolated texts rather than seeing the whole message of the Bible the whole message of Jesus but I think there's another perhaps even more fundamental one which links in to your fundamental interest in evolution our understanding of what it is to be a gay or lesbian now it's very very different from what it was let us say in the Roman world when the New Testaments written this was purely a matter of choice we now actually know that a significant percentage of people are predominantly attracted to members of their own sex so it's a question of the changing facts as well as a changing understanding of how the Bible should be interpreted this of course is all music to my ears but I I'm kind of left wondering why you stick with Christianity at all therefore therefore then maybe some of the fundamentalist mites might say just that to you I think that moderates need to be passionate both about their religious beliefs and about rationality and it's possible to be a passionate a moderate it's much more some say that while religious fundamentalists betray reason some moderate believers betray reason and faith equally the moderates position seems to me to be fence sitting they half believe in the Bible but how do they decide which parts to believe literally and which parts are just allegorical I take it that as an anglican bishop you you wouldn't deny miracles and i think you ought to to be consistent with with what you've just been saying I think if God was doing miracles the whole time then we would live in an Alice in Wonderland tiny world it would be unpredictable and you and I wouldn't be able to have a rational conversation it's almost they think there's a kind of ration of miracles which mustn't be exceeded but or we get into well we can't we can't say what that ration is if miracles were happening all the time whenever whenever we wanted them to happen then human life as we know it couldn't exist in what about sort of really big miracles like the virgin birth what do you think about that I don't think that it's on a par with the resurrection for example I mean I'd actually do believe that the resurrection of Jesus from the dead is absolutely fundamental to Christianity in a way that I don't believe the virgin birth is it seems to me an odd proposition that we should adhere to some parts of the Bible story but not to others after all when it comes to important moral questions by what standards do we cherry pick the Bible why bother with the Bible at all if we have the ability to pick and choose from it what is right and what is wrong for today's society I suspect that religion is simply a parasite on a much older moral sense I want to examine how science reveals the true roots of human morality morality stems not from some fictional deity and his texts but from altruistic genes that have been naturally selected in our evolutionary past humans have much more sophisticated versions of the kinds of social instincts you see in chimps and other creatures really there's no great leap is just you can think of chimps as ms-dos and humans as Windows 2000 [Music] [Music] religious believers like to claim that their God and ancient texts provide them with an inside track to defining what is good and what is bad but it is surely far more moral to do good things for their own sake rather than as a way of sucking up to God our true sense of right and wrong has nothing to do with religion I believe there is kindness charity and generosity in human nature and I think there is a Darwinian explanation for this through much of our prehistory humans lived under conditions that favoured altruistic genes gene survival depended on nurturing our family and on doing deals with our peers the I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine principal I don't think we need religion to explain morality and if anything it just gets in the way morality is a lot older than religion humans have an innate moral sense or a range of moral senses but you can think of as sophisticated versions of the kind of social instincts you see in chimps and other social species what sort of morality will proto morality would you expect to find in a chimpanzee troop we find that they they live in family groups they're the mothers look after their their kids they work in they work in teams and also chimps are particularly good at competing for status through what's been called public service so they compete with status not just through brute force but by being good leaders by intervening to settle disputes what are the main evolutionary reasons for cooperating and being altruistic working together often produces mutual benefits of them for those that are involved so you can often just do better by working in a team than you can by working by yourself perhaps it is our genetic inheritance that explains why those of us with no allegiance to a holy book or a pope or an Ayatollah to tell us what is good still managed to ground ourselves in a moral consensus which is surprisingly widely agreed as social animals we've worked out that we wouldn't want to live in a society where it was acceptable to rape murder or steal we have a moral conscience and a mutual empathy and it is constantly evolving religious or not we have changed in unison and continue to change in our attitude to what is right and what is wrong 50 years ago just about everybody in Britain was somewhat racist now only a few people are fifty years ago it was impossible for gay people to walk along the street hand in hand now it's easy some of us lag behind the advancing wave of moral standards and some of us are ahead but all of us in the 21st century are ahead of our counterparts from the time of Abraham Muhammad Orson Paul [Music] the progressive shift often emerges in opposition to religion it's driven by improved education and then expressed by newspaper editorials television soap operas parliamentary speeches judicial rulings and novels I guess my starting point would be the brain is responsible for consciousness and we could be reasonably sure that when that brain ceases to be when it falls apart decomposes that'll be the end of us from that quite a lot of things follow I think especially morally we are the very privileged owners of a brief spark of consciousness and we therefore have to take responsibility for it you cannot rely as Christians or Muslims do on a world elsewhere a paradise to which one can work towards and maybe make sacrifices and crucially make sacrifices of other people we have a marvelous gift and you see it developing children this ability to become aware that other people have Minds just like your own and feelings that are just as important as your own and this gift of empathy seems to me to be the building block of our moral system i profoundly agree with you and I've always felt that one of the things that's wrong with religion is that it teaches us to be satisfied with answers which are not really answers at all and if you have a sacred text that tells you how the world began or what the relationship is between this sky God and you it does curtail your curiosity it cuts off a source of wonder the loveliness of the world in its wondrousness is not apparent to me in Islam or Christianity and all the other major religions [Music] to an atheist like Ian McEwan there is no all-seeing all-loving God who keeps us free from harm but atheism is not a recipe for despair I think the opposite by disclaiming the idea of a next life we can take more excitement in this one the here and now is not something to be endured before eternal bliss or damnation the here and now is all we have an inspiration to make the most of it so atheism is life-affirming in a way religion can never be look around you nature demands our attention begs us to explore to question religion can provide only facile ultimately unsatisfying answers science in constantly seeking real explanations reveals the true majesty of our world in all its complexity people sometimes say there must be more than just this world than just this life but how much more do you want we are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones most people are never going to die because they're never going to be born the number of people who could be here in my place outnumber the sand grains of Sahara if you think about all the different ways in which our genes could be permuted you and I are quite grotesquely lucky to be here the number of events that had to happen in order for you to exist in order for me to exist we are privileged to be alive and we should make the most of our time on this world more from our age of reason season next Wednesday at 9:00 from tarot cards to new-age reasoning Richard Dawkins takes on superstitious thinking he's also back this Saturday at 10:00 on more4 along with other scientists championing the genius of Britain that's at 10:00 next though drama an extra helps required when an old case is reopened in the closer

Info

Channel: Trig Johnson, PhD

Views: 498,480

Rating: 4.6301546 out of 5

Keywords: Richard Dawkins, Dr. Trig Johnson

Id: RHAz-ULSdhI

Channel Id: undefined

Length: 93min 42sec (5622 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 27 2019

Reddit Comments

Totally going to be nothing but measured discourse in this thread.

👍︎︎ 390 👤︎︎ u/BrockVegas 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

If he’s so smart then how did he not know that Mr. Garrison was a guy?

👍︎︎ 583 👤︎︎ u/CodeBrode 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

Funniest part of this to me is that many people watching it won’t know the pastor of that megachurch later lost his job for having meth fueled gay sex with prostitutes. I can’t remember if they were underage prostitutes or not I’d have to google that detail.

The biggest takeaway should be how amazingly hypocritical evangelicals are, not what you think of Dawkins.

👍︎︎ 575 👤︎︎ u/WantsToMineGold 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

Let's be honest, humans are terrible and stupid. We don't need religion to be ignorant.

👍︎︎ 384 👤︎︎ u/flyguysd 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

It's strange that the comments are largely about how Richard Dawkins is an arrogant prick, and not so much about the subject matter. Is it that people don't like his ideas and so they attack him, or more agree but are embarrassed by his persona?

👍︎︎ 98 👤︎︎ u/leadingzer0 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

If your beliefs in deity or participation in a particular religion lead you to be a better human here and now, I’m okay with that.

👍︎︎ 105 👤︎︎ u/DoubtingThomas50 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

Nietzsche would like a word with you.

👍︎︎ 125 👤︎︎ u/evtheben 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

Also an award winning book. I think it's a interesting read, he presents his arguments logically and with plenty of explanation. Also, his prose is surprisingly nice.

👍︎︎ 84 👤︎︎ u/DogHanderson 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies

There is no god and I am his prophet!

👍︎︎ 207 👤︎︎ u/CrackandYoghurt 📅︎︎ Jun 25 2019 🗫︎ replies