Red Hat Summit 2021 Virtual Experience

so we've talked many times on the cube and now it's kind of playing welcome back [Music] welcome back to thecube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual i'm john furrier your host of the cube we have paul coleman here who's here president and ceo of red hat cube alumni paul always great to have you on uh the leader of red hat now president and ceo for a year i think about a year now we're looking at under your belt now part of ibm great to see you youtube nice to see you again john so we've talked many times on the cube and now it's kind of playing out in real time the software world with open source has gone mainstream the conversation was moved to the cloud okay people move to the cloud cloud native emerges devops been around for a while but now the conversation is cloud for the enterprise that's and the enterprise is a it's a tough world you gotta it's complicated there's a lot of legacy a lot of value and you want the new stuff this is what the conversation is now it's shifted to i got cloud it's hybrid what's your reaction to that well you know it it really is as you say it's complicated but it's evolving and really really fast i mean you know i think you remember we've been here a lot you first remember you know first software was eating the world and open source software was eating the world and then every every company is becoming a software company all true but that evolution continues today with the proliferation of hybrid cloud environments that it encompasses everything from data centers to public cloud services to and even now we'll talk about two far-flung edge deployments that's all now part of the cloud i mean this is all what makes up hybrid i like to always say that that hybrid really is the the new data centers but but now cios and it leaders they need to reconsider what their roles what their role here is and the way we look at it is every cio now needs to be a cloud operator because because hybrid is what their environment is now today that used to be all in their data center so so but one of the things this really makes choice even more important for cl and and it leaders they need to addre address specific needs not only to the organization but even as they change and evolve in this because it really is a dynamic environment i mean think about it i just mentioned edge and how how important that is to the cios we weren't even talking about that two years ago so there's not a single answer here right um and and you know and there as there wasn't a single answer when it was all in one building or in one data center but now it even it's even more complex so so we need to enable really a new wave of cloud operators here with technologies that can be deployed as cloud services as well as on premises i mean we'll talk more about this too but and we'll talk about this at the summit we've talked about the summit cloud services become really important especially managed services for example because because we're so complex the hybrid brings so much power but it is complex you know cios need help with this they need help managing this now and so that's really where a lot of our focus is today it's interesting you say there's no single answer i would agree with you because it's now you can actually do a lot more customization with cloud and hybrid i think there's a general sentiment and directionally correct answer in the industry is that hybrid is operating model right and i think you guys are have a whole division of sres you know google talks about this all the time in their cloud site reliability engineers and i think you're seeing that in educational institutions which we'll talk about but i think this idea of cloud scale as the new i.t and you mentioned hybris the new data center you know i don't i don't want to offend my i.t friends out there but they're kind of all realizing it too that if they don't understand how to operate cloud scale they'll be irrelevant and there and they understand that their jobs are not just provisioning storage networking and servers those are yeah now involved in a hybrid architecture and by the way there is no one recipe it's dependent each enterprise can have its own set of architecture based on their workloads again so i buy that's no single answer but there is hybrid and i think it's pretty well understood i mean do you agree with that i i i absolutely agree with that but let's take a look at let's unpack it a little bit and take a look at the building blocks a bit right um you know we talked about open source is what's driving all of this now and and and everything we're talking about here is built in and around linux and it was only possible because linux was so open so available and became so powerful that's now been the platform that all this new innovation is built around i mean i oftentimes say and it's true the cloud just wouldn't be here had linux not only made its way in the open source development environment but made its way into the enterprise to enable it to you know companies like us that make it enterprise ready secure etc so i think that's really an important thing to understand here so when you talk about skills that the cios need certainly sre skills operation skills etc but they also need linux skills and even open source skills so so i think i think that's important everything that's coming down the road in in in this space in um in is in is open source based and built in around linux things like ai quantum computing autonomous vehicles um iot and out to the edge all built on a foundation of linux and open source so we see it in the enterprise everywhere now i mean a survey where you know we did a survey out there and looking at the survey of cios out there open is is predominant out there linux is predominant out there and hybrid is predominant and growing in a pretty big clip every year you know paul i want to get your reaction to something because this is maybe kind of a dot connecting moment for me because i want to get your thoughts on this because it's a pattern i'm seeing emerging now multiple times and usually i thought this was kind of a one-off but i'm starting to see it although i want to get your thoughts on this you guys have been super successful with open source in the enterprise super successful over decades building a community and an ecosystem now with open source with cloud native specifically we're seeing end users participating more in the in the contribution i mean it starts out with the hyperscalers but now you're seeing kind of i would call general purpose mainstream enterprises contributing projects not necessarily their expertise but they've been participating in taking the goodness of open source and bringing that into into their enterprise and obviously relying on you guys as well but now i'm starting to see the pattern where people are relying on you to bring your community to them and they merge their communities with you you guys and being kind of a steward there is that a pattern do you see that evolving because we've heard that on multiple interviews on the cube where we've heard end users say we love the red hat ecosystem and and that seems to be more and more about they want to be building their ecosystem so you did it for yourselves you did it for the industry now enterprises want this service is this so is this a pattern what's your reaction to that yeah it actually is a pattern because and it's actually one of the reasons why innovation is moving so quickly right now i mean as i just said you know you know this whole area here and infrastructure and cloud and developer environments um hybrid included it's all built in and around it it's all built in and around linux and in the past what what's happening and driven by open source development in the past would happen look at the old-fashioned way right where company like us would be in a you know company a software company not like us but any old software company would be you know in their stove pipe talking to their customers getting their requirements and then bringing those requirements back from the customer base and then trying to work that into their products over time get that back out to the customer to test it and try it see does it work that's probably a five year it was probably a five year journey for big for big requirements for big change requirements you look at now with with actually end users now participating in upstream development they're building their requirements into that upstream which is our development environment and actually that's what feeds our products and so we've cut out the middleman if you will completely in there now when we're building those requirements into our future future r d work in the upstream and then we bring that down into a product back into their enterprise for them to use in production so it cuts out years of time for that innovation to get from concept to building to productizing to production and and i think you know john that's one of the big reasons why that that customer base participating is one of the big reasons why we're seeing innovation move like we've never seen it before in the enterprise which in the old days that was a stodgy place where they didn't want to move very quickly yeah and the values there i mean i think it's clear with the pandemic we'll get to this towards the last last talking track here but with the pandemic i think it's pretty clear where the value is and the speed to capture opportunities and growth i think enterprises are realizing that i think the power of the ecosystem is a modern error kind of phenomenon that is now kind of showing its its its value and clearly in the market and i think people who harness communities and ecosystems not try to fork them but connect them and and intersect them and kind of play it well together again this is an open source concept kind of reimagine so uh we'll keep an eye on that so um i want to get to your comment in the keynote you mentioned at the top here every cio it has to be a cloud operator you know that reminds me of all the startups and all the positioning statements every company needs to be a software company every company needs to be a media company every company needs to be a cloud operator so i love that what does it mean because i could say hey paul i have a cloud i'm working on amazon or is that it or wait a minute azure's got i got 365 over here and i'm using bigquery over here i might use oracle over here i mean all these multi-cloud conversations so it's confusing no tell me what you know if you look at if you look at it we were really one of the first ones to really build around this hybrid um this hybrid concept and the reason why we were one of the first ones is because you know what did amazon hit the world 12 or 13 years ago or something like that they were the first major cloud and at the time that you know the the narrative was that you know every application was going to move to the cloud tomorrow right well because as i said earlier everything is built in around open source and linux we were very involved with our customers as they tried to move those first applications to the cloud so certainly there's a lot of value in moving to the cloud but our customers quickly realized with us helping them quickly realized that you know what this is great but not every application is suited for the cloud for any cloud but also i may want to run multiple clouds because another cloud provider over here might have a better service than this particular service over here vice versa and so we were in the middle of that so one of the decisions we made sure seven or eight years ago everything we did in that last seven or eight years around the portfolio whether it was build new products m a requiring new companies etc was built around that hybrid portfolio what that means is a common platform that sits both on premise and bare metal machines virtual machines private clouds on premise multiple clouds across out in the enterprise that common platform so the developers operators and the security people have that common platform to build with because just like in linux even though they're all derived from open source upstream they're all different they all make different choices in how they're going to configure themselves so so that's important so now we're out there with these multiple clouds in one of our surveys we see our cios telling us now that they're using on average i think six clouds today and they expect that to go to eight to ten over the next three to five years so how are they going to manage that how are they going to secure that how are their operations people going to operate with that that's all the things we've that we've been working on over the last number of years so from that common platform which is sort of the basis which is open shift to underneath it which is the linux operating system which is rel that spans all those footprints that i talked about then also you look at what one of the latest trends is as well is manage services because what customers are now telling us is okay i got this environment that this hybrid is now my data center it means i have to worry about these apps all in different footprints um i want the platform to act like a cloud in some cases i don't want to i don't want to even manage it i want you to manage it for me because for many reasons i want great uptime i might not have the right skill sets in my i.t organization and so i want you to manage it and so that's where we develop managed services and that's where we have said a large group today a large sre group that's providing those managed services no matter where our platform runs for our customers also what i talked about in my keynote today is that to support that thought process is that we're doing a lot of research in this and so you know in a typical computer science research world you know of the past you might really be into the into the real computer science of research we with the consortium around mass open cloud with boston university mit harvard northeastern with this consortium we're running mass open cloud on all red hat with the collaboration of these universities and we're really focusing on the sre aspect of it what do we need to to manage it what do we need around automation to manage it what do we need around ai to manage it what do we need for tools to manage it and and that's really goes down to what i fully briefly said in the beginning is that every cio and it uh executive now has to be their own cloud operator because they are effectively stitching all these disparate clouds together so that's where a big part of our focus takes us all the way from you know upstream development to product to the research we're doing for the next three to five plus years you know i gotta say um the hybrid cloud is a new data center which is implying i.t and cloud operators or cxos and cios is interesting because it's validated by mckinsey's recent report that came out that said there's a trillion dollars of untapped value in one retrofitting existing infrastructure and operations and two net new operating use cases that the cloud enables so there's clearly not two categories of value proposition that businesses are facing one is you know kind of take care of the existing and then also bring in the new that cloud enables so you know i think that's really key and that will drive the business leaders to force it if you will to be agile and adaptive to that so so totally agree on that i love this open cloud initiative you mentioned the mass open cloud which i know is kind of like this bean pot for you know techies um for people who know what that means uh it's in it's in the boston area these institutions um this is gonna be a training and an opportunity to train this next generation and if you take it to the next level cyber security is also in this kind of net new novelty interdisciplinary component so you got engineering which is like devops engineering and then systems engineering and computer science intersecting together with kind of this data discipline so it hits cyber security which is a board level conversation it hits the new business model opportunities which is a driver this is new this is there's no pre-existing curriculum why how do you explain that to heads of the departments and the deans of these these institutions saying you know no it's an engineering thing no it's computer science no it's a it's a business school thing with data science what's your what's your uh conversation with folks in the industry when you say this is a different thing uh you know the the university you know the university is getting it was actually one of the one of the first things this is you know what you'll see you know i talked to uh dr bob brown from president bu earlier in an interview and and this is what we imagined with them early on and even they're they've brought those disciplines together now in in in in what they call a harry institute where they bring data computer science engineering as you say and now even operations it's almost like you know systems engineering on steroids it's a it's a really big spanning system and so so they the universities are starting to understand that's why these universities in the consortium that's why we're working here but but also you know the the industry is kind of learning it the hard way because now that they get some of their developers starting to move some of their application developments out into one maybe two clouds and having now they have to figure out how they're going to do all those things that we talked about develop secure operate it so they're they're learning the hard way that this is the new discipline because that's reality i i also think that you know as i said like anything in tech we always say this is going to happen tomorrow i also think like i said when cloud first came came out everybody's saying i'm moving every app to the cloud tomorrow we even had customers that bought into that said we're moving going full bore but they realized once they got into it it wasn't practical so don't take me wrong cloud brings a ton of value here but from a practical perspective it's going to be some apps and across many clouds and and so now they're having to deal with the it um execs and the cio's having it deal with it so they're they're learning really fast because of the reality that they have to deal with now having said all that too it also brings up why manage services you're seeing is so popular right now because as that's moving so fast they just don't have the skills necessary in many cases to really operate and run in this in this type of environment it brings so much power but the skills aren't necessarily there in the industry so that now you see the connection between the industry where we sit and even the university now looking at this whole big problem as you put said john actually a new discipline yeah i think i think and i think one final leg of the three-legged stool is at the business schools because when you think about systems programming you mentioned that and you know i love to go back in history and look at the history of operating systems and you know paul we've talked those in the past and you guys know a lot about operating systems from a technology standpoint it's not just about a productivity suite for a user or a department with a system it's a company that needs to be programmed so when people want to globally operate their business that's software defined this is a now and this is now happening right so this the new leaders in these companies that want to run these global companies at scale and operate them just like operating the business not necessarily operating a tech or shiny new toy have to build the operating system for the business to me i think that's where i see ibm looking at cloud differently and saying hey this is an operating system under the covers for the business the applications are multi-fold from you know an application for productivity to an edge device industrial or consumer user work at home i mean it's a plethora of applications what's your reaction to that you you see the same thing i mean frankly i think this is an area that a lot of the infrastructure players missed in the past and i think i think this is what ibm saw with bringing us in um as well it's all about the application you know i said earlier that you know we said every every company was a software company is true and and so that means that companies are running their businesses on these applications so it's all about the app and i think a lot of infrastructure companies miss that and and so with hybrid now you have that ability to run the app wherever it makes the most sense for for a whole host of reasons and so now but now comes the complexity of all of that i think i think ibm was bringing us in saw that that hybrid was maybe is as big if not a bigger opportunity than cloud itself because of of the complexity it's going to bring the power it's going to bring but also the complexity it's going to bring i see that's why you see arvind sort of doubling down the entire ibm company on on hybrid this services that that are that are going to be really important here that they provide there's applications on top that are going to be really important but that have to be architected in such a way that they can run in a hybrid environment and finally this is all the infrastructure and tools and development pieces that we bring to the table so so yeah i think i think arvin really really understood that as they made the decision to bring red hat in i talked to accenture all the time and they also have this kind of concept of refactoring and reprogramming your business it's not a holistic view this is kind of what's happening so my final question for you is as that becomes software enabled and programmed if you will with applications the business you know with many different subsystems in there a lot of companies now looking at the light at the end of the tunnel with the pandemic and they're seeing vaccines coming out some say vaccines will be pretty much everywhere everyone over 12 by the fall so we're back to real life there's going to be a pullback of some projects on doubling down on others as you as you mentioned with carvings doing so you're starting to see hybrid as companies come out of the pandemic they're all jockeying to make sure that they've either done their work to refactor or reposition reprogram their business and be set up for net new opportunities what do you see as a growth model or growth opportunities for companies who want to come out with a growth strategy out of the gate of the pandemic what's your thoughts well i mean i i think you have to plan for you know companies have to plan for your workforce to be anywhere but in order to be anywhere in in to be productive you need you need services like we're on right now for example but you need the infrastructure to be able to do that you need you need a way for your customers if you if you buy the fact that every company is a software company and you're running a business through their applications need a way for your customers to be able to interact with you anywhere from where they are anywhere in a real-time way and so i think that's why from our perspective things like that we're pushing a lot on the edge now that's why you're seeing the hybrid cloud move all the way out into the edge and you can see it in every vertical you know in the telco space the edge means you got to do you have data and compute that needs to be done on the set on the cell tower in the manufacturing world you have this data in compute that needs to be done on the factory floor in the retail vertical we see the edge really being significant in all these verticals but but that edge is now extends that hybrid data center that we've been talking so much about so even though you have all these edge devices way out there on the edge it's a critical part of the business so you have to have you have your developers need to be able to develop for it you need to secure it you need to and you need to operate it and manage it so now you know in a very short period of time hybrid's taken on another dimension bringing you out to all these points on the edge which is the same but slightly different in every vertical now comes complexity and that's why automation is so important because with that power comes complexity but it's going to take automation to keep it all running paul great insight thanks for coming on thecube open innovation uh out in the open with with you guys again continuing and the focus of the evolution of software in the cloud with enterprise i t uh clearly a lot of innovation and your contribution to academia and the mass open cloud and all the open cloud initiatives phenomenal uh world's going open source and continues continues doesn't stop the operating system of business is is uh coming and you guys are well positioned thanks for coming on thanks again john always a pleasure okay paul carmier president ceo of red hat here on thecube i'm john furrier your host thanks for watching hello welcome back to the cube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual i'm john furrier your host of the cube we're here with roberto calendrini head of architecture and digital and ai services from sam he's remote remoting in from milan italy roberto great to see you thanks for joining us on thecube great to see you too john thanks for hanging here love the virtual events we can bring people in from all around the world i love the virtual i mean it's one of the trade-offs for not being in person is we can still get you in thanks for coming on before we get started i want to dig into the digital architecture of what you guys are doing it's very compelling in a hybrid cloud it's got you got all the things going on which i like but before we start can you provide a short overview of snam who are your customers what is your company's focus and what's your role there sure so tsunami is one of the worst leading energy infrastructure operators and we basically build the energy infrastructures and offer integrated services our mission is to guide the evolution of the energy sector and lead the energy transition to a low carbon future and as you can see in our last investment plan we declared our net zero carbon objective to bridge by 2040. this is why we basically are investing a lot in uh technology in renovating our technology stack in order to uh provide our business line with the most innovative sustainable energy network thanks to which we are already guaranteeing stable supplies to europe of natural gas love your title love the fact you got the ai piece in there um what about specifically is your role what do you oversee i'm responsible for uh architecture digital and artificial intelligence services that basically means that i'm uh within with my team and my extended team of the digital technology uh department uh are designing the entire technology stack for islam and i'm specifically focusing more on developing intelligent and usable services for our business lines awesome the you guys over there at snam have transformed a lot the stack that's cool when i get into that you redesign your applications map right so it's really edge to cloud now edge up to the cloud what were the business drivers and the objectives to reach that goal i mean because that's really a great use case i mean you've got the edge to deal with intelligent you've got industrial business drivers and objectives yeah yeah our main business drivers has always been to to increase the effectiveness of our processes and business lines so to better support the decision of our internal line of business and we soon discovered that we needed more data in order to do that and we structure a very extensive iot program but those data provide information about the internal state of our assets because they're coming from the census and we thought what about the environment in which our assets are located so following up on that we integrated data coming from remote sensing technologies so think about drones and satellites imagery data and we soon discovered that we need platform in order to process this new level of uh of data this way we think we will be able to enter the new volume of data that we predicted will be 100 times what we currently manage and efficiently use ai and machine learning to derive insight from these new scale and complexity so we're talking about big data robert i got to ask you could you take a minute to describe your transformation journey you guys went through and how red hat helped you guys execute the digital transformation yeah we basically uh started working in uh 2018 with red up to set up our cloud readiness map we basically needed to decide what to scale uh what to lift and shift what to refactor in order to move our application to a modern architectural stack and right up at us with this we use open for our general new the rate and since then most of our new software project is now a cloud native and developed on openshift we are still in the process of leveraging modern architecture so microservices based and using our container orchestration platform and a service platform in order to complete the modernization of our application map and we're targeting 2023 2024 to complete the entire process but as you know is an ever-changing uh landscapes so you basically never complete uh such a task the same way do you see red hat technology helping stem in its ecosystem for energy efficiency and aiming for low carbon emissions well i i think that openshift provide provide us with with the right level of flexibility and agility to move at the speed of our new businesses that's one way to look at the quest and the other one i think it would be in terms of energy efficiency and the carbon footprint that our application workloads generate and i think that uh in the in that in that respect uh it could happen in the mid to long term probably so it will in proportion to the workloads we will be able to refactor as purely reactive so as non-blocking apps this probably in fact for the same business service could improve the effective resource consumption so indirectly saving energy and co2 you know i love this conversation and i know you're in italy i wish we could be in person but i'm glad to get you on because you guys are and kind of an example of the main theme at the conference this year which is an edge you know intelligent edge and iot but you know iot has been around for a while and we've talked about it before but now with the cloud and connecting to the cloud that's a huge topic here at red hat summit 2021 you guys are well versed on what they call ot technology operational technologies and what's interesting is kubernetes and containerized orchestration all help operators operations people so you have this otit integration where the operational technology old school technology people and the stack and the people in the disciplines are meeting the old i.t and creating a new thing so i have to ask you what are these what's that world like what are some of the use cases that you're working on and you're planning to deploy yeah yeah yeah exactly it's exactly like that snap has a long ot history as you said so right now we have a complex brownfield uh situation for our edges and gateways on the field there are various technical components that resigns on the field you must consider that italian network uh the italian transportation network has more than 33 000 kilometers of pipeline and differently sized plants across the country so we have several already several use cases currently running on our data centers that could benefit we think from distributed processing at the edge think about for example physical security so just to give you an example privacy preserving local video processing for anomaly detection done at the edge it's much more effective in our opinion for hierarchical processing for data intensive tasks that involves field data so that you can process the data coming from the field at different level and take to the central data center only what's needed and we're also working uh on the usual problem there is with a with a widow t with with the operational technology that is standardization so we have many heterogeneous components and communication protocol there and you know without a proper iot stack gathering and normalizing the data for higher level processing could become cumbersome so security is also is also a relevant topic because it is usually a preserve at the physical and natural layer and we we think that we can introduce with iot uh three main improvements uh about this we're expanding the level of cybersec to the full technology stack bringing modern internet security standard to the edge we're pushing containerization to the edge being able to orchestrate uh our workloads from data centers to the cloud and we think that we this will provide us with a high level of flexibility and a better exploitation of the geographical distribution of our data and last but not least we are standardizing our gateways and edges and this will help us streamline the messy data transfer conversion and normalization of the data we will receive from the field awesome i gotta i gotta ask for a great job on the edge i think that's a great vision obviously building in security is important having that edge intelligence is really well done congratulations love the vision i got to ask you what's your future plans for um sam's technology journey as a whole what's your vision what's your next step so well what we would like to focus on uh in the coming years is uh cloud environment we currently set up so right now we have an average cloud environment with a data center and one cloud tenant and having our workloads running on openshift would make easier for us to leverage the offering of different cloud providers and of course to best exploit what we currently have on our tenants second one is find the best way to leverage iot so as i said before our focus in the coming years would be to complete our iot foundation rolling out our edges our gateways and put our new unified acquisition system to work and this will provide the computational backbone of our intelligent gas network and finally and this is a last objective that is will be built on top of the other two uh we must find different ways and explore different ways to leverage data and artificial intelligence so we need to exploit our data in order to generate insight for our business lines due to the scale of our new data streams artificial intelligence machine learning we think will be ubiquitous in our applications right now we're already using it but not at the scale uh that the new data streams uh will uh will need and most of the algorithms are working on data that are apart from legacy system and skid assist so they are specifically created for each project we are about to begin an exciting data journey where everything will reside on a unified data platform and our data scientists our data analysts in the business lines will be able to derive value from them awesome you know you guys are a great customer use case i love the the real operational impact i talk with a lot of other practitioners and and end user enterprises and i get the same question and i go the statement they say obviously security needs to be built in but the challenge is and where they want to what they want to do and i want to get your thoughts on this if you don't mind commenting they all say i want to run cloud native applications cloud native applications from my data center to the cloud and then out to the edge and with a as a distributed platform one operation set whether it's otit i want to make that that's my end game in the short term i like out there fast so i got to ask you for those people that want that is openshift a good solution for that in your opinion we we of course think it is uh it is part of our iot foundation uh is not the only technology component but is uh one of the one of the most relevant and it is absolutely happiness in enabling the possibility of orchestrating workloads from the cloud to the edge and we will be able to to give you more information about that as soon as we will release the first distributed workflows within 2021 so i'll be happy to to answer any any questions from our peers or or other colleagues from other industries you guys have thousands and thousands of sites this is the classic industrial edge implementation obviously monitoring just monitoring the pipes i mean you got monitoring the system just physically i mean this is like just a physical thing so now as you have technology you guys have to monitor and get that early detection of any gas leaks this is critical to your business um how is that changing how is that environment changing with technology is it more automated what's your vision how are you guys looking at that well we we surely are trying to uh move along to two main drivers the first is um unification and standardization of how we monitor all these distributed technology stuff this is very important because even for the simplest use case you're now dealing with distributed application and this is a entirely different game to what we are you used to basically and and um the the other rather the other relevant thing is uh how can we get the best from the machines we put uh on the field so in other in in other terms how can we standardize uh how we connect to the machines we have on the field and how much intelligence we need to put there and how to test it and in order to do that we're thinking about building a digital twin of our assets that will enable us to be able to test end to end before getting to the real thing on fields uh how will it work what are the security vulnerability potential security vulnerability and other aspects of the technology infrastructure and the data infrastructure and we think this is very important because in some way uh in order to provide the acceleration and the scale that we are going to provide to to our company we need to be sure well in advance that what we designed will work in practice without getting to the field we would like to get into the field but everything is already tested roberto great to have you on thecube great to see you thanks for coming in from milan italy um cube virtual it's one of the benefits and hope to see you in person soon at the next event but great use case love your environment love how you're looking at that platform as a distributed platform and bringing that otit together data center to the cloud to the edge that's a really relevant use case and architecture so congratulations thank you very much john and i hope to see you too very soon when i'm in italy we're going to come by and do a site visit and see each other thanks for coming on appreciate it thank you absolutely okay cube coverage for red hat summit 2021 i'm john furrier your host thanks for watching [Music] [Music] hello everyone welcome back to thecube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 i'm john furrier host of the cube we got a great segment here on how red hat is working with telcos and the disruption in the telco cloud we've got a great guest cube alumni daryl jordan smith senior vice president of industries and global accounts at red hat uh daryl great to see you thanks for coming back on thecube oh it's been it's great to be here and i'm really excited about uh having the opportunity to talk to you today yeah we're not in person in real life's coming back soon although i hear mobile world congress might be in person this year looking like it's good a lot of people are going to be virtual and activating i know a lot to talk about this is probably one of the most important topics in the industry because when you talk about telco industry you're really talking about the edge you're talking about 5g you talk about industrial benefits for business because it's not just edge for connectivity access we're talking about internet of things from self-driving cars to business benefits it's not just consumer it's really bringing that together you guys are really leading with the cloud native platform from rel openshift managed services everything about the cloud native underpinnings you guys have been successful as a company but now in your area telco's being disrupted give us your take on this this is super exciting well it's actually one of the most exciting times i've been in the industry for 30 years i'm probably aging myself now but in the telecommunications industry this for me is the most exciting it's where you know technology is actually going to visibly change the way that everyone interacts with the network um and with the applications that are being developed out there on on our platform and you know as you mentioned iot and a number of the other ai and ml innovations that are occurring in the marketplace we're going to see a a new wave of applications in innovation what's the key delivery workloads you're seeing with 5g environment obviously it's not just you know 5g in the sense of thinking about mobile phones or mobile computers as they are now it's not just that consumer hey surf the web and check your email and get an app and download and communicate it's bigger than that now can you tell us where you see the workloads coming in on the 5g environment you hit the nail on the head the the the killer application isn't the user or the consumer in the way that we traditionally have known it um because you might be able to download a video and that might take 20 seconds less but you're not going to pay an awful lot more money for that the real opportunity around 5g is the industrial applications um things like connected car you know automotive driving um factory for automation how you actually interface digitally with your bank how we're doing all sorts of things more intelligently at the edge of the network using artificial intelligence and machine learning so all of those things are going to deliver a new experience for everyone that interacts with the network and the telcos are at the heart of it you know i want to get into the real kind of underpinnings of what's going on with the innovations happening you just kind of laid out kind of the implications of the use cases and the target application workloads but there's kind of two big things going on with the edge in 5g one is under the hood networking you know what's going on with the moving the packets around the workload throughput uh bandwidth etc and all that that goes on under the hood and then there's the domain expertise and the data where ai and machine learning have to kind of weave in so let's take the first part first openshift is out there red hat's got a lot of products but you have to nail the networking requirements in cloud native with containerization because at large scale it's not just packets it's all kinds of things going on security managing compute at the edge there's a lot of things under the hood if you will from a networking perspective could you share yeah what red hat's doing in that area sure so so um when we last spoke with the cube we talked a lot about vms and actually people know darryl can i pause you really quickly i'm really sorry keep your answer in mind we're gonna go right from that question we're just kidding um are you is anything that you're using or touching running into the desk we're just getting a little bit of shakiness on your camera and i don't want to so any way that it's my it's probably my elbows as i've no worries so so no worries okay so so take your answer i'll give you like a little three two one from behind the scenes and and and we'll go right as if john just asked the questions we're gonna stay running it's not alive thank god can you ask the question just again so it's in front of my mind perfect yeah well let's let's do it from that so dare we'll we'll stay on your shot so you'll hear john but it'll be as if he just asked the question so john team up yes here we go i'm just going to um just nudge him here just so keep my other question on your nudge here we go okay here we go so daryl openshift is optimized for networking requirements for cloud native it's obviously complex under the hood what is red hat doing under the hood to help in the edge in large complex networks for large scale yeah so so that's a very good question in that we've been building on our experience with openstack and the last time i was on the cube i talked about you know people virtualizing network applications and network services we're taking a lot of that knowledge that we've learned from openstack and we're bringing that into the container-based world so we're looking at how we accelerate packets we're looking at how we build cloud native applications on bare metal in order to drive that level of performance we're looking at actually how we do the certification around these applications and services because they may be sitting in different outlets across the cloud and in some instances running on multiple clouds at the same time so we're building on our experience from openstack we're bringing all of that into openshift our container-based environment with all of the tooling necessary to make that effective it's interesting with all the automation going on certainly with the edge developing nicely the way you're describing it certainly disrupting the telco cloud you have an operator mindset a cloud native operator thinking kind of i mean it's distributed computing we know that but it's hybrid so it's essentially cloud operation so there's an operator mindset here that's just different could you just share quickly before we move on to the next segment what's different about this operating model for the these new kinds of operators as you guys have been saying the cio is the new cloud operator that's the skill set they have to be thinking and certainly i.t to anyone else provisioning and managing infrastructure has to think like an operator what's your view exactly yeah they certainly do need to think like an operator they need to look at how they automate a lot of these functions because they're actually deployed in many different places all at the same time they have to live independently of each other that's what cloud native actually really is so the whole the whole notion of five nines and vertically orientated stacks of uh five nines availability that's kind of going out the window we're looking at application availability across a hybrid cloud environment and making sure the application can live and sustain itself so operators as part of openshift is one element of that operations in terms of management and orchestration and all the tooling that we actually also provide as red hat but also in conjunction with a big partner ecosystem such as companies like uh netcracker for example or ibm as another example of erickson bringing their automation tool sets and their orchestration tool sets to that whole equation to address exactly that problem yeah you bring up the ecosystem and this is really an interesting point i want to just hit on that real quick because it reminds me of the days when we had this massive innovation wave in the 90s during that era the client server movement really was about multi-vendor right and that you're starting to see that now and where this ties into here i think is and we get your reaction to this is that you know moving to the cloud was all about 2015 moved to the cloud moved to the cloud cloud native now it's all about not only being agile and better performance but you're going to have smaller footprints with more security requirements more net and enterprise requirements this is now it's more complicated so you have to kind of make the complication go away and now you have more people in the ecosystem filling in these white spaces so you have to be performant and purpose-built if you will i hate to use that word but or or at least performing an agile smaller footprint great security enabling other people to participate that's a requirement can you share your reaction to that well that's core of what we do at red hat i mean we we we take open source community software into a hardened distribution fit for the telecommunications marketplace so we're very adapt to working with communities and third parties that ecosystem is really important to us we're investing hundreds of engineers literally hundreds of engineers working with our ecosystem partners to make sure that their application and service is certified running on our platform but also importantly is certified to be running in conjunction with other cloud-native applications that sit over the same cloud so that that is not trivial to achieve in in any stretch of the imagination and a lot of it technology skills come to bear and as you mentioned earlier a lot of networking skills things that we've learned and we built with a lot of these traditional vendors who bring that to the marketplace you know i've been saying on the cube i think five years ago i started talking about this it was kind of a loose formulation i want to get your reaction because you brought up ecosystem you know saying you know you're going to see the big clouds develop obviously amazon microsoft came in after and now google and others and i said there's going to be a huge wave of of what i call secondary clouds and you see companies like snowflake building on top of amazon and so you're starting to see the power law of new cloud service providers emerging that can either sit and work with across multiple clouds either one cloud or others that's now multi-cloud and hybrid but this rise of the new more csps more cloud service providers this is a huge part of your area right now because some call that telco telco cloud edge hits that what is red hat doing in this cloud service provider market specifically how do you help them if i'm a cloud service provider what do i get in working with red hat how do i be successful because it's very easy to be a cloud service provider now more than ever what do i do how do you help how do you help me well we we offer a a platform called openshift which is our containerized base platform but it's not just a container it involves huge amounts of tooling associated with operating it developing it around it so that the concept that we have is that you can bring those applications develop them once on one con one single platform and run it on premise you can run it natively as a service in microsoft's environment you can actually run it natively as a service in amazon's environment you can run it natively in ibm's environment you can build an application once and run it in all of them depending on what you want to achieve and who actually provides you the best zoning the best terms and conditions the best the best tooling in terms of other services such as ai associated with that so it's all about developing it once but deploying it in many many different locations leveraging the largest possible developer ecosystem to drive innovation through applications on that common platform so the assumption there is that's going to drive down costs can you really talk about why the benefits the economics are there talk about the analytics yeah so so a does drive down costs and that's an important aspect but more importantly it drives up agility so time to market advantage is actually attainable for you so many of the telcos when they deploy a network service traditionally it would take them literally maybe a year to roll it all out they have to do it in days they have to do updates in real time in day two operations in literally minutes so we we we're building the fabric necessary in order to enable those applications and services to occur and as you move into the edge of the network and you look at things like private 5g networks service providers or telcos in this instance will be able to deliver services all the way out to the edge into that private 5g environment and operate that in conjunction with those enterprise clients so openshift allows me if i get this right i'm a csp to run have a horizontally scalable organization okay from a unification platform standpoint okay whether it's 5g and other functions is that correct that's correct okay so you got that now now i want to come in and bring in the top of the stack or the other element that's been been a big conversation here at red hat summit and in the industry that is ai and the use of data one of the things that's emerging is the ability to have both the horizontal scale as well as the specialism of the data and have that domain expertise you're in the industries for red hat this is important because you're going to have one industry is going to have different jargon different language different data different kpis so you've got to have that domain expertise to enable the ability to write the apps and also enable ai can you comment on how that works and what records you do in there so so we we're developing um openshift and a number of other of our technologies to be fit for the edge of the network where a lot of these ai applications will reside because you want them at the closer to the client or the application itself where it needs to reside and we're creating that edge fabric if you like the next generation of hybrid cloud is really going to be in my view at the edge we're enabling a lot of the service providers to go after that but we're also igniting by industry you mentioned different industries so if i look at uh for example manufacturing with minesphere we recently announced with siemens how they do at the edge of the network factory automation collecting telemetry doing real-time data and analytics looking at materials going through the factory floor in order to get a better quality result with lower lower um levels of uh in that system just one industry and they have their own private and favorite ai platforms and data sets they want to work with with their own data scientists who understand that that that ecosystem inherently you can move that to healthcare and you can imagine you know how you actually interface with your healthcare professionals here in north america but also around the world how those applications and services and what the ai needs to to to do in terms of understanding x-rays and looking at you know common errors uh associated with different x-rays so a practitioner that can make a more specific diagnosis faster saving money and potentially lives as well so different different vertical markets in this space have different ai and ml requirements and needs different data sciences and different data models and what we're seeing is an ecosystem of companies uh that are starting up there in that space you know we have watson as part of ibm but you have preceptor labs you have hta h2o and a number of other very very important ai based companies in that ecosystem yeah and you get the horizontal scalability of the control plane and in the platform if you will that gives cross-organizational leverage uh and enable that vertical domain expertise exactly and you want to build an ai application that might run on a factory floor for for certain reasons due to its location and what they're basically physically building you might want to run that on premise you might actually want to put it into ibm cloud or in azure or into aws you develop it once to open shift you can deploy it in all of those as a service sitting natively in those environments daryl great shout out i got a lot going on telco cloud there's a lot of cloud native disruption going on it's a challenge and an opportunity and some people have to be on the right side of history on this one if they kind of get it right we'll know and the scoreboard will be very clear because this is a shift it's a shift so again you hit all the key points that i wanted to get out but i want to ask you two more areas that are hot here at red hat summit 21 as well again and as well in the industry i want to get your reaction and thoughts on and they are devsecops and automation okay two areas everyone's talking about dev ops which we know is infrastructure as code programmability under the hood modern application development all good yeah the second there security devsecops that's critical automation's continuing to be the benefits of cloud native so devsecops and automation what's your take and how does it impact the telco world in your world you can't you can't operate a network without having security in place you're talking about very sensitive data you're talking about applications that could be real time critical misses actually even life-saving or life-threatening if you don't get them right so the acquisition that red hat recently made around stack rocks really helps us make that next level of transition into that space and we're looking about how we go about securing containers in a cloud-native environment as you can imagine there'll be many many thousands tens of thousands of containers running if one is actually misbehaving for one one of a better term that creates a security risk in a security loophole we're sure that up that's important for the deployment openshift in the telco domain and other domains in terms of automation if you can't do it at scale and if you look at 5g and you look at the radios at the edge of the network and how you're going to provision those services you're talking about hundreds of thousands of nodes hundreds of thousands so you have to automate a lot of those processes otherwise you can't scale to meet the opportunity you can't physically deploy you know daryl this is a great conversation you know as a student of history and um dave vellante and i always kind of joke about that and you've been around the industry for a long time telcos have been balancing this evolution of digital business for many many decades and now with cloud native it's finally a time where you're starting to see that it's just the same game now new infrastructure you know video voice text data all now happening all transformed and going digital all the way all aspects of it in your opinion how should telcos be thinking about as they put their plans in place for next generation because you know the world is is now cloud native there's a huge surface area of opportunities different ecosystem relationships the power dynamics are shifting it's it's really a time where there will be winners and there will be losers what's your what's your view on on how the telco industry needs to cloudify and how to be positioned for success so so one of the things i i truly believe very deeply that the telcos need to create a platform a horizontal platform that attracts developer and ecosystems to their platform because innovation is going to sit elsewhere then you know there might be a killer application that one telco might create but in reality most of those innovations the most of those disruptors are going to occur from outside of that telco company so you want to create an environment where you're easy to engage and you've got maximum sets of tools of versatility and agility in order to attract that innovation if you attract the innovation you're going to ignite the business opportunity that 5g and 6g and beyond is going to actually provide you or enable your business to drive and you've really got to unlock that innovation and you can only unlock your now view of red hat innovation if you're open you know you follow open standards you're using open systems and open source is a method or a tool but you guys if you're a telco i would ask you guys need to leverage and harness yeah and there's a lot and there's a lot of upside there if you get that right yes there's plenty of upside a lot of leverage a lot of assets take advantage the whole offline online coming back together we are living in a hybrid world certainly with the pandemic we've seen what that means it's put a spotlight on critical infrastructure and the critical shifts if you had to kind of get pinned down daryl how would you describe that learnings from the pandemic as folks start to come out of the pandemic there is a light at the end of the tunnel as we come out of this pandemic companies want a growth strategy they want to be positioned for success what's your learning coming out of the pandemic so from from my perspective which really kind of in one one respect was was very uh admirable but and another respect is actually deeply uh granted a lot of gratitude is the fact that the telecommunications companies because of their carrier grade capabilities and their operational prowess were able to keep their networks up and running and they had to move significant capacity from major cities to rural areas because everyone was working from home and in many different countries around the world they did that extremely and extremely well um and their networks held up i don't know and and maybe someone will correct me and email me but i don't know one telco had a huge network outage through this pandemic and that kept us connected it kept us working and it also what i also learned is that in certain countries particularly latin where they have a very large prepaid market they were worried that the prepaid market in the pandemic would go down because they felt that people would have enough money to spend and therefore they wouldn't top up their phones as much the opposite effect occurred they they saw prepaid grow and that really told me that that connectivity is critical in times of stress that we were also what everyone's going through so i think there are some key learnings there yeah and i think you're right on the money there it's like they pulled the curtain back of all the the fud and said you know necessity is the mother of invention and when you look at what happened and what had to happen to survive in the pandemic and be functional you nailed it the network stability the resilience but also the new capabilities that were needed had to be delivered in an agile way and i think you know it's pretty much a forcing function for all the projects that are on the table to know which ones to double down on so i think you pretty much nailed it daryl jordan smith senior vice president of industries and global accounts for red hat cube alumni jeff thanks for that insight thanks for sharing great conversation around telcos and telco clouds and all the edge opportunities thanks for coming on thank you john okay it's thecube's coverage of red hat summit 21 i'm john furrier your host thanks for watching [Music] okay welcome back everyone to thecube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual i'm john furrier host of thecube got two great guests here from aws bob weiss general manager of kubernetes for amazon web services and peter lander head of product marketing for the enterprise developer and open source at aws gentlemen you guys are the core leaders in the aws open source initiatives thanks for joining on thecube here for red hat summit thanks for having us john good to be here so you know the innovation that's come from people building on top of the cloud has just been amazing and you guys props to amazon web services for constantly adding more and raising the bar on more services every year you guys do that and now public cloud has become so so popular and so important that now hybrid has pushed the edge you got outposts with amazon you see everyone following suit it's pretty much a clear vote of confidence from the customers that hybrid is the operating model of the future and that really is about the edge right so i want to chat with you about the open source intersection there so let's get into it so we're here at red hat summit so red hat's open source company and timing's great for them now part of ibm you guys have had a relationship with red hat for some time can you tell us about the partnership and how it's working together yeah absolutely why don't i take that one um aws and red hat have been strategic partners since shoot i think it's 2008 or so i in the early days of aws when engaging with customers we wanted to ensure that aws was the best place for enterprises to run their red hat workloads and this is super important when you think about you know what red hat has accomplished with rel in the enterprise it's running sap it's running oracles it's running all different types of core business applications as well as a lot of the the the new things that customers are innovating in so having that relationship to ensure that not only did it work on aws but it actually scaled we had integration of services we had you know the the performance the price all of the things that were so critical to customers was critical from day one and we continue to evolve this relationship over time as you see us coming into uh red hat summit this year well to get into the hard news here also the new service red hat open shift service on aws known as rosa the a for amazon red hat open shift a for amazon web services uh clever acronym but really it's on aws what exactly is this service what does it do and who is it designed for well oh let me jump in on this one um maybe let's start with the why you know why why why rosa uh customers love using openshift but they also want to use aws they want the best of both so they want their peanut butter and their chocolate together in a single confection and uh a lot of those customers have deployed aws uh have deployed openshift on aws um they want managed service simplified supply chain um they want to be able to streamline moving on premises openshift workloads to aws and naturally want good integration with aws services so as to the what uh it's uh our new service jointly operated and supported by red hat and aws to provide a fully managed openshift on aws so again like a lot of customers have been running uh openshift on aws before this time but of course they were managing it themselves uh typically and so now they get a fully managed uh option with also a simplified uh supply chain so single support channel single billing you know we're talking before we came on camera about the uh acronym on aws and you know people build on the clouds kind of like it's no big deal to say that but i know it means something i want to explain you guys to explain this on because i know i i've been scolded saying things on the cube that were kind of misspoken because it's easy to say oh yeah i built that app we built all the stuff on the cube was on aws but it's not on aws it means something from a designation standpoint what does right on aws mean because this is open shift service on anywhere as we see there's other companies have their products on aws this is a specific designation can you share please john when you see the branding of um something like red hat on aws what that basically signals to our customers is that this is this is joint engineering work this is the top of the strategic partners um where we actually do a lot of joint engineering and work to make sure that we're driving the right integrations in the right experience make sure that these things are accessible and discoverable in our console um they're treated effectively as a first-class service inside of the aws ecosystem so it's there's not many of the ons if you will you think about sap on vmware cloud on aws and now red hat open shift on aws it really is that signal um that helps give customers the the confidence of you know tested tried trued supported and validated service on top of aws and we think that's significantly better than anything else it's it's easy to run a a an image on a vm and stuff it into into a cloud service to make it available but customers want better customers want you know tighter experiences they want to be able to take advantage of all the great things that we have from uh from a scale availability and performance perspective and that's really what we're what we're pushing towards yeah i've seen um examples specifically where when partners work with amazon at that level of joint engineering deeper partnerships the results are pretty significant on the on the business side so um congratulations to you guys working with openshift and red hat this real testament to their product i got to ask you guys pull the amazon amazon playbook out and pres and and challenge you guys or or just you know create new some commentary around the process of working backwards every time i talk to andy chassis he always says we work backwards from the customer and we get the requirements and we're listening to customers okay great he loves that he loves to say that it's true i know that but i've seen that at idiot what does the customer work backwards document look like here what is that what was the need and what made this become such an important part of aws what was the and then what are they saying now now that the products out there well openshift has a very wide footprint as does aws and uh some some working backwards documents kind of write themselves because uh the customer demand demand is so strong that there's just no avoiding it and uh but it really just becomes about uh making sure you have a good plan so it becomes much more operational at that point and uh rosa's definitely one of those services we had so much demand and it's as a result no surprise that we're getting a lot of enthusiasm for customers because so many of them asked us for it what's the response been so far what's what what's been the reaction i'm absolute demand that's i kind of got the sense of that but okay so there's demand now what what's uh what's the use cases what are customers saying what's the what's the reaction been a lot of the use cases are are these um hybrid kind of use cases where a customer has a big open shift footprint um what we see from a lot of these customers is a strong demand for consistency in order to reduce i.t sprawl what they really want to do is have the smallest number of simplest environments they can and so the customers that standardize and openshift really want to be able to standardize openshift both in their on-premises environment and on aws and uh get managed service options just to remove the uh differentiated heavy lifted okay what's your take on the product marketing side of this where you know you got um open source becoming very enterprise specific red hat's been there for a very long time i've been you know user of red hat since the beginning and following them and linux obviously is linux where that's come from but what features specifically jump out uh in this offering that customers are resonating around what's the what's the vibe here this is a and and and john you kind of alluded to it um early on which is uh i don't know that i'd necessarily call it hybrid but the reality is our customers have environments that are on premises in the cloud and all the way out out to the edge and today when you think of a lot of solutions and services it's a fractured experience that they have between those three locations and one of our biggest commitments to our customers is to make things super simple remove the complexity do all of the hard work which means you know customers are looking for a consistent experience environment and tooling that spans data center to cloud to edge and that's probably the biggest kind of core asset here for for customers who might have standardized on openshift in the data center as they come to the cloud they they want to continue to leverage those skills i think probably one of the um an interesting one is we headed down in this past we all know delta airlines delta is a great example of a customer who joint customer who have been doing stuff inside of aws for a long time they've been standardizing on on red hat for a long time and bringing this together just gave them that simple extension to take their investment in red hat open shift and leverage their experience and and again the scale and performance of what aws brings them next question what's next for uh red hat open shift on aws uh in in your work with red hat what's where does this go next what's the big to-do item what's what do you guys see is the vision i'm glad you mentioned uh open source collaboration at the start there uh one thing to point out is that uh aws works on the kubernetes project upstream as does the red hat team so one of the ways that we collaborate with the red hat team is in open source one of those projects is a new project called ack um amazon controllers for kubernetes this is a kind of kubernetes friendly way for customers to use an api to manage aws services and so that's one of the things we're looking forward to uh um as that goes ga rolling out into both uh rosa and to our other services awesome i i gotta um ask you guys this while you're here because you know it's very rare to get two luminaries within aws on the open source side this has been a huge build out over the many many years for aws um and some people really kind of don't understand um kind of the position so take a minute to clarify the position of aws on open source you guys are very active in the projects you mentioned upstream with kubernetes in other areas i've had many customers with adrian cockroft on this as well as others within aws huge uh proponents i mean web services i mean you go back to the original amazon i mean jeff bar was saying 15 years ago some of those apis are still in play here you know apis back in 15 years ago that was kind of not you know mainstream at the at that time so you know you had open standards really made amazon web services successful you guys are continuing it but as the modern era is very enterprise-like and you see a lot of legacy you're seeing a lot more operations that are going to be driven by open technologies that you guys are investing on take a minute to explain what a diverse is doing and what you guys care about and your mission yeah well why don't i start and then we'll kick it over to bob because i think bob can also talk about some of the key contribution sites but the best way to think about it is kind of in in three different pillars so let's start with the first one um which is you know around the fact of of ensuring that our customers favorite open source projects run best on aws since 2006 we've been helping our customers operationalize their open source investments and really kind of achieve that scale and focus more on how they use and innovate on the products versus how they set up and run and and for for myself being an open source since the late 90s the biggest opportunity yet challenge was the access to the technology but it still required you as a customer to learn how to set up configure operationalize support sustain aws removes that heavy lifting and and you know again back to that that earlier point from the beginning of aws we helped customers scale and implement their apache services their their their their database services all of these different types of open source projects to make them really work exceptionally well on aws and back to that point make sure that aws was the best place for their open source projects i think the second thing that we do and and uh you you're seeing that today with what we're doing with rosa and red hat is we partner with open source leaders um from red hat to uh redis and confluent to you know a number of different players out there grafana and prometheus to even foundations like the lf and the cncf um we we partner with these leaders to ensure that we're working together to grow grow the overall experience in the overall uh the overall pie if you will and and this kind of gets into that point you're making john in in that you know the old world legacy proprietary stuff there's a huge chance for refresh and new opportunity and rethinking or modernization if you will as you come into the cloud having the expertise and the partnerships with these key players as enterprises move in is so crucial and then the third piece i like to talk about that's important to our open source strategies is really around contribution we have a number of projects that we've delivered ourselves i think the two most recent ones that really um uh you know come top of mind for me is what we did with with uh babelfish um as well as with open search right so contributing and driving and a true open source project that helps our customers um you know take advantage of things like an sql um a proprietary to open source sql conversion tool or um you know what we're doing to make elasticsearch um uh the the opportunity or the the primary open platform for our customers but we you know it's it's not just about those services it's also collaborating with with key industry initiatives and you know bob's at the forefront of that with what we're doing with the cncf around things like kubernetes and and prometheus etc bob you wanna you wanna jump in on some of that sure i think the the one thing i would add here is that um customers love using these open source projects but one of the challenges with them frequently is security and this is job zero at aws so a lot of the collaboration work we do a lot of the work that we do on the upstream projects is um kind of specifically around kind of security oriented things because that is what customers expect when they come to get a managed service at aws so um some of those efforts um are somewhat unsung because um you generally do more work and less talk um in security oriented things but in projects across aws that's that's always a key contribution focus for us that's a good way to call out um security too i think that's being built into the everything now that's on operating model people call it shift left day two operations however you want to look at it you got this nice formation going between under the hood kind of programmability of the infrastructure at scale and then you have the modern application development which is just again programmable devsecops it's funny bob i'd love to get your take on this because you know we and i remember in the 80s and during the unix generation i used to pedal software under the table like here's a copy of unix don't tell anyone you know people in the younger generation don't get the fact that it wasn't always open okay and so now you have open and you have this idea of an enterprise that's going to be a system management system view so it's you got engineering and you got computer science kind of coming together this sre middle layer you're hearing that as kind of a new discipline so devops kind of has one i mean kind of knew this for many many years i said this in 2013 on thecube actually at reinventing i just recently shared that clip but okay now you've got sec ops devsecops so now you have an era where it's a system thinking and open source is driving all that so can you share your perspective because this is kind of where the puck is going it's an open open to open world it's going to have to be open and scalable how does open source and you guys take it to the next level to give that same scale and reliability what's your vision you know the key here is really around automation and what we're seeing um you could look at kubernetes kubernetes is essentially a robot it was like the early design of it was built around robotics principles so it's a giant software robot and uh the world the world has changed if you just look at um you know the the influx of all kinds of automation uh to not just the devops world but to all industries you see a similar kind of trend and so the the world of a i t operations person is changing from doing the work that the robot did and replacing with the robot to managing large numbers of robots and in this case the robots are like a little early and a little hard to talk to and so you know you end up using languages like yaml and other things um but it turns out robots still just do what you tell them to do um and so uh one of the things you have to do is be really really careful because um robots will go and do whatever it is you ask them to do on the other hand they're really really good at doing that so um you know in the security area you know i think the research points to the largest single source of security issues being people making manual mistakes um and you know a lot of people are still a little bit terrified if human beings aren't touching things on the way to production um aws we're we're terrified if humans aren't touching it um and that is a super hard chasm to cross and um open source projects have really are really playing a big role in what's really uh it wide uh migration to a whole new set of not just tools but organizational approaches okay what's your reaction to that because we're talking we're talking essentially software concepts because if you write bad code the code will execute what you did so i'm assuming it compiles like the old days now if you're going to scale large scale operations that has dynamic capabilities services being initiated and terminating tear down up started you need the automation but if you really don't design it right you could be screwed right this is a huge deal this is one reason why we've put so much effort into get ops um it's a you can think of it as a more narrowly defined subset of the devops world with a specific set of principles around using kind of simplified declarative approaches along with robots that converge the desired state converge the system to the desired state when you get into large distributed systems you end up needing to take those kinds of approaches to get it to work at scale uh otherwise you have problems yeah yeah just adding to that and it's it's funny you said you know devops is one i actually think devops is one but devops hasn't changed has cloud move right you know the reality is it was founded back what quite a while ago it was more around cicd and the enterprise and the closed data center and it it was one of those where automation and run books took addressed the fact that you know every pair of hands between service requests and service delivery recreated or you know created an issue so that that growth and that that mental model of moving from you know waterfall agile to devops you you built it you run it type of a model i think is really really important but as it comes out into the cloud you know you no longer have those controls of the data center and you actually have infinite scale so back to your point of you you got to get this right um you have to architect correctly you have to make sure that your code is good you have to make sure that you have full visibility this is where it gets really interesting at aws and some of the things that we're tying in so whether we're talking about git ops like what bob just went through or what you brought up with devsecops you also have things like ai ops right and so looking at how we take our machine learning tools to really implement um the appropriate types of code reviews to to uh uh assessing your infrastructure or your your choices against well-architected principles and providing automated remediation is key adding to that is observability developers especially in a highly distributed environment need to have better understanding fidelity and touch points of what's going on with their application as it runs in production and so what we do with uh regards to the work we have in observability around the grafana and prometheus projects only accelerate that whole concept of continuous monitoring and continuous observability and then kind of you know really uh uh you know adding to that i think uh it was it was last month we we introduced our fault injection simulator a chaos engineering tool that again takes advantage of all of this automation and and machine learning to really help our developers our customers operate at scale right and make sure that when they are releasing code they're releasing code that is not just great in a small sense it works on my laptop but it's it works great in a highly distributed massively scaled environment around the globe you know this is one of the things that impresses me about red hat this year and i've said this before another covers events i've covered with them is that they get the cloud scale piece and i think their relationship with you guys shows that i think you know devops is one but it's the gift that keeps giving in open source because what you have here is no longer a conversation about the cloud moving to the cloud it's the cloud has become the operating model so the conversation shifts to much more complicated enterprise or and or intelligent edge and whether it's industrial or human or whatever you know you've got a data problem so that's it's about a programmability issue at scale so you know what's interesting is that red hat is on this bandwagon it's an operating system i mean basically it's a distributed computing paradigm essentially a la aws concept as a cloud now goes to the edge it's just distributed services via an open open source so what's your reaction to that yeah it's it's back to the original point john where i said you know any any cio is thinking about their i.t environment from data center to cloud to edge and the more consistency automation and and you know um kind of tools that they're at their disposal to enable them to create that that um uh uh kind of you know i think you you started to talk about it infrastructure the whole as code infrastructure is code it's it's now almost everything is code um and you know that starts with the operating system obviously um and and that's why this is so critical that we're we're partnering with companies like red hat on on on our vision and their vision because they align to where our customers are ultimately going bob you want to you want to add to that no i think you said it i think you said it you got a question bob one quick question for you why i got you here you mentioned git ops it's been i've heard this before i kind of understand can you just quickly define from your perspective what is git ops sure um well githubs is really taking the like i said before it's a kind of narrowed version of devops sure it's infrastructure as code you know sure you're doing things incrementally but the get ops principle it's back to like what are the good what are the best practices when you're managing large numbers large numbers of robots in this case it's it's around this idea of declarative intent so instead of having systems that reach into production and change things what you do is you set up the defined declared state of the system that you want and then leave the robots to constantly work to converge the state there that seems kind of nebulous let me give you like a really concrete example from kubernetes by the way the entire kubernetes system design is based on this you say um i want uh five pods running in production and that's running my my application so what what kubernetes does is it sits there and it constantly checks oh i'm supposed to have five pods do i have five pods do i have five pods but what happens if the machine running one of those pods goes away now suddenly it goes and checks and says oh i'm i'm supposed to have five pods but there's four pods what action do i take to now try to get the system back to the state so you don't have a system run it reaching out and checking um externally to kubernetes you let kubernetes do the heavy lifting there and so it goes through goes through a loop of oh i need to start a new pod and then it converges the system state back to running five pods so it's really taking that kind of declarative intent uh combined with constant convergence loops uh to fully fully production and scale that's awesome well we have we do a whole segment on state and stateless uh future uh but we don't have time but i do want to summarize real quick we're here at the red hat summit 2021 you got um red hat open shift on aws the big news bob and peter tell us quickly uh in summary uh why aws why red hat why better together give the quick overview bob we'll start with you bob you want to kick us off uh i'm going to repeat i'm going to repeat peanut butter and chocolate the customers love openshift they love managed services they want uh simplified uh simplified operations simplified supply chain um so you get you get the best of both worlds you get the uh openshift openshift that you want fully managed on aws where you get all of the security and scale yeah i i can't add much to that other than saying you know red hat is powerhouse obviously on on data centers it's it is the operating system of the data center and you know bringing together the best in the cloud with the best in the data center is such a huge benefit to our customers because back to your point john our customers are thinking about what are they doing from data center to cloud to edge and and and bringing the best of those pieces together in a seamless solution is so so critical um and that that's why aw guys great for thanks for coming on i really appreciate it i just want to give you guys a plug for you and you know being humble but working the cncf and standards bodies has been well well known and getting the word out congratulations for the commitment to open source really appreciate the community thank you thank you for your time thanks john okay cube coverage here covering red hat summit 2021 i'm john furrier host of thecube thanks for watching [Music] and welcome back to thecube's coverage of red hat summit 21 virtual i'm john furrier host of thecube we've got two great guests here returning back cube alumni is here to give us their perspective dave lindquist gm vp of engineering hybrid cloud management red hat joe fitzgerald general manager and vp of the management business unit red hat guys welcome back to the cube congratulations red hat summit's ongoing virtual great to see you thank you john thanks john so love to get the lowdown a lot going on the productivity this year looking back from last year a lot's been done and we've been in the pandemic now now circling back a full year a lot's happened a lot of productivity a lot of clear visibility on on what's working what's not you guys got some great news let's just jump right into it what's the big announcement so one of the things that we announced here at summit john is an expansion of our red hat insights brand uh basically we announced red hat insights for our rel platform back in 2015. over the years we've increased the amount of data and visibility into those systems here at summit we've now announced red hat insights for both openshift and for the red hat ansible platform so it's a pretty significant increase in the visibility that we have to the platforms oh so can you repeat that one more time so the expansion is through which platform style specifically so red hat insights is a way that we connect up to different platforms that red hat provides historically it was for red hat enterprise linux for realm we've now expanded it to the red hat openshift family platforms as well as the red hat ansible automation platform as well so nice broad expansion people want that data what was the motivation behind it was it customer demand was it more access to the data just was it on the roadmap what's the motivation where where is this going what's what's the purpose of all this well i don't think customers say hey please you know take more data i think it's customers say can you keep me more secure can you keep my systems more optimized can you help me set more things to automatic and that requires that you get data from these systems so that you can auto tune auto secure auto optimize right so it's really all those benefits that we get by connecting to these systems bringing in the telemetry the data the config different kinds of information and using that on the customer behalf to optimize security to those systems you know one of the biggest trends i think now for multiple years has been observability with cloud native more services are being turned on and off uh enterprises are getting a lot of pressure to be modern in their in their application development processes why is data more important than ever now can you guys take a minute and expand on that because this idea of telemetry across the platform is a very interesting um announcement because you're turning that data into value but can you guys explain where's that value coming turning into what is the value proposition where are people seeing the the key key value points well a couple of points john as you started out is in in a hybrid cloud environment with cloud native applications and a lot of application modernization and the current progressiveness of devops and sre teams you're seeing a lot of dynamics in workloads and continuous delivery and deployments that are in public environments in private environments distributed models and so consequently there's a lot of change in dynamics in the environment so to sustain these high levels of service levels to sustain the security the compliance the ability to gather data from all these different points to be able to get visibility into that data to be able the ability to process that with various analytics and understand what when something's gone wrong or when an update is needed or when a configuration is drifted is increasingly critical in a hybrid cloud environment so on the telemetry piece is that in openshift as well that that's supporting that is in there how does that work it's it's in openshift as joe mentioned it's in rel it's in we have feeds from ansible in the openshift space we have offering advanced cluster management that understands fleets of deployments clusters wherever they're deployed however they're running infrastructure public private hybrid environments and it also collects in the context of the workloads that are deployed on those on those clusters to multi-cluster environment i want to ask you guys a question i get this all the time on the cube hey you know i need more data i have multiple systems i need to pull that data into one kind of control plane but i'm being pushed more and more to keep scaling operations and this becomes a huge question mark for the the enterprises because they they have to turn up more more scale so this is becomes a data problem does this solve it here how do you guys answer that and what was what would be your response to that trend well i think the um the you know thirst for data right there's a lot of things you can do with more data there is a point where you can't ship all the data everywhere right if you think about logs and metrics and all the data it's too heavy weight to move everything everywhere right so part of it is you know selecting the kind of data that you're going to get from these systems and the purpose you're going to use it for and in the case of red hat we take data from these different systems regardless of where they're deployed bring it in and then we do predictive analytics against that data and we use that telemetry that config that health data right to do everything from optimize for performance or security cost things like that but we're not moving you know huge quantities of data from every system to red hat in order to you know pour through it we are very selectively moving um certain kinds of data for very specific purposes dave what's your take on that because you know you got to engineer these systems what's the optimized path for data do you are you keeping the silo do you bring it together what's the customer's view on on how to deal with the data yeah it's a complex problem no doubt you don't want to be pulling all the data and trying to transmit all that data back into your analytics system um so you end up curating some data some of you forward on often it's done it'll be done under control of policy so that data that is sensitive that should stay within the environment that it's in will stay but curated or alerts or information is particularly relevant say to configurations updates any any of that type of information will go up into the analytics into the insights and then in turn the alerts will come back down in a manner that are presented to the user so they understand what actions need to be taken place whether it's automated actions or they have to get approvals to maybe make an update to a certain environment all right you got telemetry data power the the advanced cluster manager acm what's the overlap of the visibility and automation here can you guys talk about that well it's a great question john what we like to do is we like to sort of separate the different areas there's the seeing right of what's going on in these environment right so getting the data analyzing it and determining what needs to be done and then the either the recommendation of the automation as dave said in a lot of environments um there's a process of either approvals or checkpoints or you know evaluation of the changes being made to the system right so separating the data and the analysis from the what you want to do with this and making that configurable i think is really powerful that that's i mean i think that's the number one thing it's like you know everyone always asks what do you optimize for do you optimize for the automation or the visibility i think you know there's always a trade-off and that's always an interesting question dave i'd love to get your thoughts if someone asks you hey i'm i'm i have a team of people what do i optimize for the visibility or the automation or both is there is there a rule of thumb or is there a playbook how would you answer that question well there's a couple things um i first i think the ability to pull the data together to get uh visibility across the environment is critical and then what becomes often complex is how the different disciplines how the different parts of the system are able to work together and common understanding of the resources common understanding the applications um that's usually where systems start falling down and so it's too siloed so one of the key things we have with with our systems particularly with openshift and rail and with acm and ansible is the ability to have a common back plane and the ability to have a common understanding of the resources and the applications and then you can start integrating the data around that common those common data models and take appropriate actions on that so that's how you end up getting the visibility integrated with the automation when you think about this uh joe about the security aspect of it and the edge of the network which has been a big theme this year and going into next year a lot more discussion and just the industrial edge you know um that's important you got to take all this into account how do how would you talk about folks who are thinking about embedding security and thinking about now the distributed edge specifically right so we thought it was complicated before right it goes up a notch here right as you have you know more and more edge applications i think at the end you're going to want automated policies and automated configurations in force so that when a device connects up to a network or is uh you know analyzed that there's a set of policies and a set of configurations and versions that need to be applied to that device these devices aren't always connected there's not always high bandwidth um so you basically want a high degree of automation in that case and to get back to your early point there are certain things you can set like policies about security or configuration you say i always wanted to be like this make it so and there's other things where they're more uh you know complicated right to to address or have regulatory requirements or oversight issues and those things you want to tell somebody i think this should be done is this the right thing to do is it okay do it but at the end you're going to have a lot more sort of uh lights out automation um to keep these things secure and configured right it's funny so the ansible guys are talking about you know code for code changing code all the time and dynamic nature of some of the emerging tech coming out of the the red hat teams it's pretty interesting you guys have going on there but you know you bring it down to the average enterprise and main street uh you know enterprise out there you know they're looking at okay i got some public cloud now i got hybrid i'm going 100 hybrid that's pretty much the general consensus of all the enterprises okay so now you say okay if i understand this correctly you got insights on rel open shift and unansible platform so am i set up for an open hybrid cloud that's the question i want to ask you guys does that give me the foundation to allow me to start the cloud adoption with in a true distributed open way well i'll offer to go first i think there's a couple of things you need in order to run across hybrid clouds and i think red hat from a platform point of view the fact that red hat platforms run across all those different environments from the public cloud to on-premise physical invert to edge devices now you have consistency of those platforms whether it's your traditional workloads on rel your container-based workloads on openshift um or automation that's being driven by ansible those are consistent across all these different hybrid cloud environments so it reduces the complexity by standardizing those platforms across any and all of those different um substrates then when you can take the data from those systems bring them centrally and use it to manage those things to a higher degree of automation now you've taken another sort of uh chunk of complexity out of the problem right consistency of getting data from all those different systems being able to set policies and enforce things across all those distributed environments is huge yeah and then you know it fills in the gaps when you start thinking about the silo teams you know that i think one of the messages that i've been hearing out of red hat summit in the industry that's consistent is the unification trend that's going on unifying development teams in a way that creates more of an exponential value curve rather than just linear progressions in in traditional i.t are you guys seeing that as well i mean what's your take on this uh that's that piece of the story well i think the shift that we've seen for the last few years actually quite a few years uh with devops and sre has started to bring a lot of the disciplines together that you mentioned that are traditionally silos and you'll find the effectiveness of that is really around many of the areas that we've been discussing here which is open platforms that can run consistently across a hybrid environment the ability to get data and visibility out of those platforms so you can see across the distributed environment across the hybrid environment and then the ability to take actions in force or um update environments through automation um is is really is what's critical to bring things to to bring it all together yeah i think that's such an important point joe you know i was talking with chris wright around and we've covered this in the past uh red hat's success with academics um and the young people coming into the universities with computer science it's not just computer science anymore now you have engineering degrees kind of cross-disciplinary with sres as sre movement because you're looking at cloud operations at scale that's not an i.t problem anymore it's actually an it next gen problem this is kind of what there's no real degree there's no real credential for you know large-scale hybrid cloud environments you guys got the mass open cloud initiative i saw that going on that's some really pretty big things this is a a change in and talent what's your what's your view on this because i think people want to learn what what do i need to be in the future what position so john it's a great question i think ansible actually addresses a number of the issues you brought up which is you know historically there have been different tools for each of the different groups so developers had their favorite set of tools and different i.t areas had their favorite set of tools and technologies and it was sort of like a tower of babel people did not share the same sort of languages and tools ansible crosses both your your development test and operational teams so it creates a common language now that can be used across different teams it's easy to understand so it sort of democratizes automation you don't have to be deeply skilled in some you know bespoke language or technology in order to be able to do some level of automation so i think sort of sharing the same technology and tools like an ansible uh democratizing it so that more people can get involved in automating sharing that automation across teams and unifying those worlds is huge right so i think that's a game changer as well in terms of uh getting these teams to work holistically and integrated in the future yeah and there's also a better together panel an ansible and advanced cluster management session folks watching should check it out on on the virtual event platform on that point um while i got you here on that point let's let's talk about the portfolio updates for advanced cluster management for kubernetes um what's new since the ansible ansible fest announcements there's quite a bit that's been new since uh ansible fest that ansible best um well actually going back to summit last year we introduced advanced cluster management we for years we've been seeing the growth of kubernetes with cloud native and uh clusters and what what acm really allows enterprises to do is is scale out their deployments of of openshift one of the things we found is that as you're deploying workloads or clusters or trying to take care of the compliance the importance of integrating that environment with the breadth of capabilities that ansible has in automation so that's what we announced that advancement best following last year's summit what we've done is put a lot more focus on that integration with with ansible so when you bring up you know provision a cluster maybe you need to make some storage or security configurations on behalf of that cluster or if you're taking care of the compliance how do you remediate any issues with ansible or one of the things that gets shown a lot demonstrated a lot of customers like is when you're deploying applications in the production how do you configure uh the network uh do the network configurations like a load balancer maybe a ticket into your service management system along with say uh threat detection on your security so a lot of advances with acm in the integration with the broader ecosystem of i.t in particular with uh with ansible what's the ecosystem update for partners and this is comes up all the time i want to make sure i get this in there i missed it last time we chatted you know the partner impact to this you mentioned the ecosystem and you got native kubernetes non-native what's native to everything you guys got a lot of native things and sometimes it's just support for other clouds so you start to get into the integration questions partners are very interested in what you guys are doing can you share the partner update on how they play and what impacts them the most here yeah on the advanced cluster mansion the acm front first with this integration with ansible that actually allows us to integrate with the wealth of partner ecosystem the hands of glass which is huge so that's that's one one space and then the way acm works this policy desire state model is we've been able to integrate with a large number of partners around particularly the security space not the service management space where they where we can enforce the use of certain security tools uh on the on the clusters themselves so it's really opened up how quickly partner offerings can be integrated into the openshift environment at scale across all the clusters that you want that you need to support it on with the appropriate configurations and policies sure i've got to ask you on the inside side you mentioned the expansion across the platforms now if you go out take out the ecosystem you know there's guard rails around governance how far can partners push their data in terms of sharing that's something that might come up when you comment on that sure so uh red hat um you know takes you know our customer data very seriously we're a trusted partner to our customers so the data that we get from systems we make sure that we are following all of the governance and oversight necessary to protect that data so far we have basically been collecting that data and using that data at red hat our plan really is to allow partners with the right degree of governance and control to be able to use some of that data in the future under the right conditions whether it's anonymized or aggregated and things like that to be able to take that data and to add value to customers um if they can enrich customers or help customers by getting some access to that data without every vendor or partner having to go out to systems and having to connect and pull data back that's a pretty tough uh situation for customers to to live with but uh i think that fact that red head is trusted uh we've been doing this for a while we know how to handle the data we know how to provide the governance but our plan really is to enable partners to use that data ecosystem i will say that initially what dave said about acm and partners ansible has been working with partners on the automation side uh at a very large scale right so if you look at the amount of partners that are doing automation work with us we have some pretty strong you know depth there in terms of working with partners our plan is to take the data ecosystem and expand that as well it's really a nice mix between ansible open shift and then rel you guys have great insights across now i think the open innovation just continues to be every year i say the same thing it's almost like a broken record but every year it just gets better and better you know innovation out in the open you guys doing a great job and continuing and now certainly as the pandemic looks like it's coming to an end soon post pandemic a lot more projects are being worked on a lot more productivity as we said at the top so to end this segment out i'd love to get you guys to weigh in on what happens next as we come out of the pandemic the table has been set the foundation's there cloud native is continuing to accelerate rapidly in the open open source going to another level what's next what's what's going to what what's next for customers are they going to continue to double down on those the wins they're going to shut down certain projects what happens after this pandemic how do people grow dave we'll start with you well i think yes we all see the light at the end of the tunnel john is great and i think if a positive is really throughout this we've been accelerating the digitization and at modernization across the board across industries okay and that is really teaching all of us a lot about the importance of how do you start managing and running this at scale and securing this at scale so i think what we'll see coming out of this is just that much more effort on open ecosystems how you really bring together data across insights how you bring an increasing amount of analytics ai to now do something turn that data into information that you can respond with and that in turn close it closing the loop with automation against your against your hybrid cloud environment we're just going to the acceleration of that occurring awesome great insights there open data insights automation all kind of coming together ai if you don't have ai in your in your plans someone was wall street was joking that's going to be the future stable stakes get listed on wall street you got to have some sort of ai piece they have great insight joe your take on um what's next what what what's going to what's going to happen as we come out of the pandemic yeah we've definitely seen people you know advance their digital transformation um and i don't think it's going to stop right so the speed scale and complexity are just to put more pressure on teams right to be able to support these environments that are evolving at light speed um so i think red hat is really well positioned and is a great partner for folks who are trying to get more digital faster trying to leverage these technologies from the hybrid cloud to the edge they're going to need lots of help red hat is in a great position to help them you guys doing great work dave lindquist joe fitzgerald great to have you back on again open always wins and as end users become much more participants in the open source ecosystem end user contributions and user interactions software at scale it's it's now a new next generation commercial environment guys doing a great job thank you for sharing appreciate it thank you john thanks john okay red hat summit 21 cube coverage i'm john furrier getting all the action from the experts have been there done that living through it being more productive and bringing benefits to you being open source thanks for watching welcome back to the cube's coverage of red hat summit 21 virtual conference i'm john furrier host of thecube we're here here with kevin martelly principal software engineer kpmg during the conversation kevin great to see you uh thanks for coming on john thanks a lot for having me so obviously red hat a lot of action cloud native um part of ibm now a lot of talk going on around this growth around cloud massive new opportunities new modern applications being shaped in super exciting opportunities for first before we get into the into all that tell us about your role at kpmg sir john thanks so my role at kppmgm i'm one of our cloud leaders at kpmg where i really help both from an internal perspective so helping our internal enablement and digitalization as well as more importantly helping to deliver solutions and applications to our clients as they go through these digital journeys and really focusing on containerization and enabling it through the cloud you guys have done a lot of ai work i know which is cutting edge pretty much data driven i mean ai is i mean what everyone talks about but underlying ai is automation data machine learning you know really dealing with kind of new types of data sets not just dealing with existing structures you have a new platform called ignite tell us what that is what do you guys solve what was the problem statement and what's what's going on with it yeah john thanks a lot for asking so ignite um is something that we developed internally initially and which really helped to solve our ai initiatives we called it our ai platform but it's more so an ecosystem and it solves not only our own internal needs and internal use cases but also it's used to help you know support and deliver these solutions to clients um one of the foundational principles of our platform is built on top of containerization which we know is a hot area now today in the marketplace really gives you the ability for scalability flexibility security et cetera but more important what we're seeing large scale of adoptions in our clients is using this platform to really get value out of both unstructured and structured data um in a way that they're able to do this in a secured fashion and then easily get it deployed it's a pretty scalable platform and something that has just recently received the patent for it so what was that what was the internal conversation to put this together was it the fact that there was business needs um cloud native gave you that scale advantage what was some of the drivers behind ignite because this is like was it iot was it what take us through the mindset what were some of the first principles around building this and john next it's a good question and actually to be to be fair this was probably a little bit before the time of iot and some of these newer technologies were coming up and at this time we were really kind of scratching on the surface of data science and advanced analytics and what really generated the need for this is as you can imagine working at a consultancy firm and many of our clients deal with tons of contracts and the live board documents or financial services there was so much rich information in these unstructured data documents and we had no way to get this information out so really it was generated out of the need to get information out of a lot of these contractual documents that we had in pinpoint specific information so really taking it holistically on ingestion on transformations running nlp algorithms it really evolved into a whole end-to-end complete platform you know running on top of a containerized ecosystem such as openshift yeah i mean i think not to go on a tangent here but i think one of the conversations we've been having on all these events and certainly with covid was the highlight of all these silos and you know the old the old days was well break down the silos but now with containers and and cloud scale you can extract out data kind of create that horizontal data plane if you will or view observation space some call it i mean this just seems to be a huge trend you guys were on it early how was that what's your take on that i mean the silos used to be kind of like an advantage if you had a monolithic application but now you have a lot of diverse distributed databases what's your take yeah it's good how we are kind of coining it is really through the power of you know some of the toying and openshift that really gives organizations the ability to defer risk right in the sense that allows you to run certain types of workloads on-prem in a private cloud containerized way it allows you to burst certain other types of workloads you know into the different csp providers so you can get advantage of their scale their capacity without maybe moving some sensitive data and then another benefit of with some of that vendor locking that sometimes you know clients are concerned about is being able to kind of easily deploy your workloads and applications from one cloud provider to another and i think as we look at this distributed processing no one client will totally be in one cloud provider so having the ability to move workloads quickly and fastly where they make sense where the security and risk is is aligned is something that would what makes successful use cases deployments so let me ask you another question you guys um kpmg also have your own big data effort going on with analytics you've got clients that you serve and ultimately they have customers as well so you have that red hat equation what are some of the advantages that you guys see at your firm and your clients with red hat analytics because this is this becomes ultimately the number one conversations like okay what's in it for me yeah that's it's no point i would say we're seeing a few things some of them highlight is one is as you're well aware we chose uh red hat's open shift is one of our strategic options to deploy archimede platform and you know whenever you're deploying these platforms it's very important that you have the the flexibility the agility and the ability to scale and and red hat underneath the hood really helps take care of a lot of that you know for you in a way that not only can you do it on your own as mentioned earlier your private cloud but also onto the public csps and multiple csps in addition some of the other things i think that we saw that were very beneficial you know a lot of times as an application user so application users of ignite the developers the data scientists the um the business users the analysts you know they all need to interact with the platform they want to worry about getting the insights about getting the efficiencies of the platform they don't want to worry about how the infrastructure is being put together you know how the how the workloads are being moved how the scalability is occurring et cetera and red hat really takes a lot of that away from from you having to worry about it and you know one of the other i think things that's also important is you know we have a strategic relationship with with um red hat and as we look to help to enhance and develop these capabilities and experiences as our clients are doing private cloud hybrid cloud and multi-cloud we're really going to be able to let them take the power of you know open source you know into their own control and how they want to deploy it in themselves well i got you on the topic there i got to ask you the question what would you say to the people out there that haven't really kicked the tires on red hat in a while what's the modern update how would you describe the current situation at red hat for people who are going to read look and or uh bring the red hat conversation up up a notch yeah it's a it's a good question i think we see this in any type of software in the industry today there's so many choices and there's so many options out there and how do you choose the right source for the right use case you know for the right clients the right company and how we always like to talk with clients is that yes there are a lot of choices in there in the orchestration for containerization but when you're looking for something that's separate in the market that has the the security built into it that many organizations are looking for that gives you the flexibility without having to do a lot of additional operational overhead of moving from on-prem into the cloud and the way that it can scale and kind of make the overall ecosystem operations and deployments easier it's one of the benefits we see if going with a tool like red hat open shift well kevin i really appreciate the comments there and on red hat that's awesome red hat summit obviously a big event around red hat and future cloud and modern applications so i got to ask you as a software engineering leader in the industry you've got to be pretty excited about artificial intelligence and machine learning as it relates to you know what it can be doing for changing the software development paradigm obviously you there's obviously no code low code serverless you got cloud native you got containers you get all this new capability so how does how do you see those trends what are the big trends around machine learning and ai as it relates to someone who's going to be building modern applications in the cloud because certainly there's a huge ups upside there you know some are saying that if you don't have ai that's going to be table stakes and will lower the valuation of the software or the application what's your what's your take on all these big trends around ai i agree with that and we've actually done several studies and what we're hearing industry leaders saying is there's quite a few things one is um we kpmg coin covet 19 whiplash and really what that means is that the pace and acceleration of adoption in ai has been tremendous over the covet 19 period over our pandemic period and so much so that industry leaders are a little bit concerned about how fast this adoption is going and is it going too fast in addition we recently published a study called thriving in an ai world where we were able to identify that business leaders and insiders are really bullish on to your point of using you know ai and ml to make some core critical decisions how can we make vaccines what's the distribution process you know fraudulent analytics were you know financial services however what i will say is we're still seeing a lot a lot of questions and challenges around ai it's security it's ethics associated to it right how can you manage and govern in your process then privacy associated to it so there's a lot of points around those areas i think that industries are still trying to struggle and figure out how to solve for and one of the things that we are hearing is that with the new administration you know there's different you know think tanks and industry leaders that are feeling that the new administration while open to a lot of these advanced techniques and technologies are going to put a little bit more rigor around than regulations around how ai can be used in the marketplace so hopefully that will give some companies guidance around these security and privacy and ethics concerns yeah that's interesting i was talking to a friend the other day who's a leader at a big company that's a customer of red hat and a lot of other clouds as well and we were we were joking about the agility speed oh agility and speed of course yeah you get that with here but you got a lot of fast and loose situations going here you got to know when to put the pedal to the metal when there's a straight and narrow you can really kind of guess it with ai and machine learning and then know where the potential curves are if you will use that metaphor because you can go fast but with speed comes dangerous new things for breakage it's always and you're seeing that all the time you're seeing that you know with with software because you can push new update but still when you talk about operational integrity and security you know fast and loose isn't always the best way to go but when you if but if you know there's a straight and narrow you can really push it um this is what's the what you're saying is like hey we know when to go straight and narrow and go fast and then when you slow it down pull it back what's your take on that what's your assessment no i i agree i i think you hit this develop points there and and sometimes what we do is we take some antiquated processes and we overlay them into these newer technologies and we try to think them as being the same way and they may not always hold true but it's not only you know kind of fast and narrow and then putting things in it may be a little bit more simplistic but it's also there's a whole change around how you productionalized how do you get these things into deployment how do you moderate these over time so some of those biases or some of those privacy concerns don't end up creeping up into the algorithm over time i still think that what we're hearing from industry is there's still struggles around that there's still struggles around there's a lot of technologies that can do a lot of these same things our business processes don't always align and then how do we really take something from an innovation from a poc into production right is there a fast track for something that is straight and narrow and something that has a little bit more complexity but what we're seeing today is a lot sort of follow the same road which makes bringing more complex ai algorithms into production challenging yeah and there's always that big trend of day two operations which is hey you deploy it's great and then okay wait a minute something to break we need better monitoring we need better data analytics what's instrument what's not what services are being generated and terminated these are all big cloud native kind of themes uh with that i got to ask you from the from a customer standpoint these are new first generation problems at scale at that with with this new cloud native environment the pros and cons how do you guys talk to customers what are some of the things you're seeing around the challenges that they face with analytics all this analytic activity yeah so i i think one of the challenges and we've probably heard this year in year out is around data literacy right like really having our folks understand the data and empowering them to be successful in the organization and to be fair i would say data literacy was a little bit more narrowly focused in organizations who needed it i need some analysts to use it i needed some you know data scientists and engineers but what we're starting to see now is there's larger programs across the board where the it's more holistic at an organizational level everyone should be involved in data everyone should be able to do their own reporting so really data literacy and getting data kind of into the arms of the the folks is important um some of the other ones that that we've also kind of talked to about and they kind of go hand in hand and maybe a little bit on our prior conversation was the technologies technology especially in open sources explosion is exploding as well as commercial right so how do you choose the right technologies the right tools you don't have too many you know tools in your toolbox per se but use the ones that are really differentiating and try to standardize on the ones that are more standard you know finally it's bringing those processes and that wrapping them back into the technologies again a little point we hit on earlier but what we're finding is as technology is rapidly you know increasing your you're able to use it for your analytics your processes are still antiquated and legacy processes which makes it you know a little bit harder for you to really take advantage of you know what you're trying to achieve in your organization from a digital transformation and then you know one final one i would add in there is around the rest that organizations have right so there's a lot of concern about reputational risk if they're doing these types of activities that people don't understand the data they don't understand the algorithms are there some impacts that can be had and they're they're figuring out how to control that um and then how not to and then i think finally the workforce is as we know it's getting the workforce up to speed you know retooling where need be and putting their people in the right place to be successful kevin that's great insight thanks so much for coming on thecube i got to ask you one final question one more thing you know you mentioned covet whiplash there's a lot of post covid activity discussions going on if you look at what's happened with covid there's been an exposure of all the projects that need to be doubled down on ones that may not be continuing people working at home obviously a change of the environment you mentioned workforces among others what do you think the biggest conversation around your customer base or within kpmg right now around some of these growth strategies around post cover what are companies thinking around how to deploy the people process and technologies big part of this conversation what what is the postcode general theme that you're seeing among among large enterprises and business in general it's a good question so i think in general we're seeing the acceleration of digital agendas that may have been pushed out after five years pulling it in closer but one of the most interesting things i think that i've gathered out of working with the clients that we're working with is that um you know before to get stuff into production ai solutions even even any type of smaller production system it was taken months you know months several months to get something in production and it seemed to be once the koba pandemic kit you know organizations can accelerate that journey of deployment of applications into production in very very quick time frames without you know hindering or impacting any types of control frameworks that they have in place but just working quicker so i think some of the things i see as we move forward is that these digital agendas are going to be pulled forward more quicker the the the day of this a poc is good or pilot's good is long past it's now they want to see the results in the outputs in the enterprise in production and i think they realize that they have the tools to do this in a period of time that is weeks versus months and some cases years so would you agree then just as a quick follow-up to that that obviously when we get back to real life post covid that the visibility and the economics and the productivity gains from this new environment is going to stay around longer and be permanent which you agree with that statement i hope i hope it is but we are creatures of habit and sometimes we go back to back to the way that we have done things but i'm i'm hopeful that they were able to see to be successful in these types of environments and and make these types of decisions that those processes start evolving to take into consideration what we learned during this terrible pandemic and be able to apply that to postpandemic yeah who would have known the word hybrid cloud actually means something more than just cloud technologies hybrid events hybrid workforces the word hybrid has been kicked around kevin thanks so much for coming on thecube here from red hat summit coverage thanks for coming on great insight thank you thanks i'm john furrier with thecube here for red hat summit coverage 2021 virtual thanks for watching [Music] hello and welcome back to the cube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual i'm john furrier host of the cube we're here in palo alto we're remote with our great guest here cube alumni been on many times chris wright senior vice president and cto of red hat chris great to see you always a pleasure to have you on uh the screen here today we're not in person but thanks for coming in remote yeah you bet glad to be here yeah not only we talk about speeds and feeds digital transformation going under the hood here we're going to talk about red hat's expanded collaboration with boston university to help fund education and research for open source projects so you guys have a huge relationship with boston university talk about this continued commitment what's the news what's the what's the story well we have a couple different things going on uh and and the the relationship we have with bu is many years in so this itself isn't brand new um one of the things that's important to highlight here is we are giving you know something north of 550 million dollars worth of software uh to be you really in pursuit of of running powering and running scaled infrastructure that's part of the open hybrid cloud and that's that's an important piece which which we can touch on a little bit as we talk through this conversation the other one is like i said this isn't a new relationship with bu um and what we're doing now is really expanding the relationship so we've we've built a great connection directly with bu we're we're substantially expanding that the the original relationship we had was a five million dollar relationship spread over five years now we're talking about a 20 million dollar relationship spread over five years so really a significant expansion and of course that expansion is connected to some of the work that we plan to do together in this open hybrid cloud infrastructure and research space so a lot of things coming together at once to really really advance the red hat collaboratory at bu that that combined effort in built bringing you know cloud research and open source and all these things together and a lot of action going on especially in the boston area a lot of universities but i love the uh shirt you're wearing where it says red hat innovation in the open this is kind of one of those things you also mentioned obviously this huge subscription of software grant that's going to be you just you know you know huge number of good value for for the boston university but you also have a another project that's been going on uh the collaborative research and education agreement called the red hat collaboratory okay this was in in place you mentioned that how's that tying in now because that's what was pre-existing now you got the grant you got the funding more and more research talk about how this connects into the open cloud initiative because this is kind of interesting you're now bringing hybrid cloud kind of research and practical value in ai ops is hot i mean you can't you can't go anywhere these days without having great observability cloud native more and more is more complex and you got these young students and researchers dying and get their hands on it take take us through the connection between the collaboratory and open open cloud so the the collaboratory is a clever name uh that just talks about collaboration and and research you know laboratory type research and initially the collaboratory focus was on the the infrastructure running the cloud and some of the application workloads that can run on top of of an open cloud infrastructure that are that's very data centric and so this is an opportunity for multi-disciplinary work looking at modeling for for healthcare for example for how you can improve imaging and we've had a great results in this collaboration um we've talked at uh at times about the relationship with the boston children's hospital and the chris project not related to me but just similar acronym that spells chris and these things come together in part through connecting relationships to to academia where academia's research is increasingly built in on and around open source software so you know if you think of sort of two parallel worlds open source software development just the activity of building open source software it brings so many people together and it moves so quickly that if you're not directly connected to that as an academic researcher you risk producing academic research results that aren't relevant because it's hard for them to connect back to these large fast-moving projects which may have invented a solution to the problem you've you've been focused on as an academic if you're not directly connected so we see academia and open source coming together to build really a next generation of understanding of the scientific endeavor and these these trend operations you're talking about here though this is significant because there's dollars behind it right there's real money it's not just that's right software it's it's a center it's a joint operation that's right and so when you think about just the academic research of producing ideas that manifest themselves as code and software projects we want to make sure we're first connecting the software projects to open source communities and with our own engineering um experience bringing code into these open source open source projects to just advance the the feeds and feed speeds and speeds the kind of functionality the state of the art of the of the actual project we're also taking this to a new level with this expanded relationship and that is software today when you when you operate software as a cloud a critical part of the software is the operationalization of that software so software just sitting there on the shelf doesn't do anybody any good even if the shelf is an open source project and it's a tarball waiting for you to download if you don't ever grab it and run it it's not doing any anybody any good and if the challenge of running it um is substantial enough that it stops you from from using that software you've created a barrier to to the value that's locked inside that project the focus here is how can we take that the operations experience of running a cloud which itself is a big complex distributed system tie some of those experiences back into the projects that are used to build that infrastructure so you're taking not just the output of the project but also the understanding of what it takes to run a project and bringing that understanding and even the automation and code associated with that back into the project so you're operationalizing this open source software and you're building a deeper understanding of what it means to operate things at scale including data and data sets that you can use to build models that show how you can create the remediation and closed-loop systems with ai and machine learning you know sort of synthesizing all the data that you generate out of a big distributed infrastructure and feed that back into the operations of of that same infrastructure so a lot going on there at the same time operationalization as as an open uh source initiative but also um really the understanding and advancement of ai and data centric operations so ai ops and close the remediation yeah i mean devops developer and operations you got operationalize it and certainly cloud native put an emphasis on uh day two operations which needs a lot more research a lot more uh uh student work on understanding the coding environment uh so with that i to ask that um i asked you about this massachusetts focus or this open cloud initiative because you guys are talking about this open cloud initiative including this massachusetts open cloud what is that what is the massachusetts open cloud sounds like you're offering a kind of open approach not just bu but other um institutions that's right so the the moc massachusetts open cloud is itself a cross organizational collaboration bringing together five different academic institutions uh in in new england and massachusetts it's bu it's harvard it's mit it's northeastern uh and it's umass coming together to support a common set of infrastructure which is cloud it's a cloud that runs in a data center and then it serves a couple of different purposes one is research on clouds directly so what does it mean to run a cloud what is what does it look like from a research point of view to understand large scale distributed systems and then the other is more on top when you have a cloud you can run workloads and those workloads scaled out to do say data processing looking at the implications of across different fields which could be natural sciences it could be medicine uh could be even political science or social sciences so really a multi-disciplinary view of what it means to leverage a cloud and run data centric workloads on top so two different areas that are of of a focus for the moc and this becomes the sort of vehicle for collaboration between red hat and vu and the red hat laboratory so i have to ask only because i'm a big fan of the area and went to one of those schools is there like a bean pot for technical hackathons where you get all the schools matched up against each other on the mass open cloud and compete for who gets bragging rights and the tech city there it's a great question not yet um but i'll jot that down here to make sure we can follow up on that happy to sponsor we'll be we'll do the play-by-play coverage uh you know great i love that yeah kind of twitch tv style the the the one thing that there is um which is very practical is uh academic research grants themselves are competitive right people are vying for for research dollars so you put together proposals bring those proposals to um the agency that's that's that's giving out grants and winning those grants is certainly prestigious it's important it's part of how research institutes continue to fund the work that they're doing uh now we've been associated uh through the work we've done today with bu with you know some almost 15 million dollars in grants to do to do research which itself has published nearly 20 papers so there's there's a um a lot of work you can't quite call it the play-by-play uh it's a scoreboard i mean they're numbers you can put numbers on the board i mean that's what's one of the things you can measure but let me ask you on those grants so you're saying this is just the bu you guys actually have data on um the impact of the relationship in terms of grants and papers and stuff like that academic work that's right that's right and so those numbers that i'm giving you are examples of how we've worked together with bu to help their faculty generate grant dollars that then fund some of the research that's happening there together with red hat engineers and on and on the infrastructure like the massachusetts open cloud that's a good way look at the scoreboard it's a good point we'll have to research that uh if you don't mind me asking on this data that you have are all those projects contributing to open source or do they have to be is that just generic is that all all papers around bu or is this part of the research in other words i'm trying to think if i'm in open source has this contributed to me as an open source yeah it's a big and complex question because there's so much uh research that can happen through a research institution and those research grants tend to be governed with agreements and some of those agreements have intellectual property rights front and center and might require things like open source software as a result the stuff that we're working on clearly is in that focus area of open source software and and research activities that help kind of propel our understanding forward of what does it mean to do large-scale distributed systems creation and then operation so how do you develop the software that does it how do you how do you run the software that builds these big large distributed systems so we're focused in that area some of the work that we facilitated through that focus includes integrating non-open source software that might be part of say medical imaging so for example work we've done with the boston children's hospital that isn't a hundred percent doesn't require us to be involved 100 in the open source pieces all the infrastructure there to support it is and so we're we're learning um how we can build integrated pipelines for data analysis and image analysis and data sharing across different institutions uh at the open source project level but maybe we have a specific imaging program that is not generated from this project and of course that that's okay with us you know chris you bring up a good point with all this conversation i can see this really connecting the dots most computer science programs most engineering programs haven't really traditionally focused on i.t at the scale we're talking about because we look at cloud scale but now scaling with hybrid it's real engineering going on to think about the large scale we know all the big hyperscalers right so it's not just it provisioning you know network connection and doing some i.t work we're talking about large scale so i have to ask you as you guys look at these relationships with academics and academia like like bu and others how are the students responding to this are you guys seeing any specific graduate level advancements because you're talking about operational roles that are becoming so important whether it's cyber security and as cloud native because once we're data driven you need to have all this new scale engineered up that's right what's what's wrong how do you look at that there's there's two different pieces that i would highlight one is just the data science itself so schools still need to produce data scientists and having data is a big part of being a data scientist and knowing you know what your what your goals are with that data and then experimenting with different techniques whether it's algorithms or tools it's a big part of being a data scientist sort of spelunking through the data so we're helping produce data we're looking at data science efforts around data that's used to operationalize infrastructure which is an interesting data science endeavor by itself the other piece is really what you highlighted which is there's an emergence of a skill set in the industry often referred to as sre site reliability engineering it is a engineering discipline and if you back up a little bit and you start thinking about what are the underlying principles behind large-scale distributed systems you get to some information theory in computer science so this isn't just something that you might think of as some simple training of a few key tools and and knowing how to interpret a dashboard and you're good to go this is a much more sophisticated view of what does it mean to really operate large-scale infrastructure which to date there aren't a lot of these large-scale infrastructures available to academics to research because they're commercial endeavors and they're new too i was talking to some young folks my son's age and daughter's age and i was saying you know architecting a building a skyscraper isn't trivial you can't just do that overnight there's a lot of engineering that goes on in that science but you're bringing kind of operating systems theory systems thinking to distributed computing i mean that's combination of a interdisciplinary shift and you got i won't say civil engineering but like concept is there you got structure you got networks they're changing and then you got software so again completely new area that's right and there's not a lot of even curriculum that explores this space so one of the opportunities here's a great program that really focuses on um that that space of site reliability engineering or operationalizing software and then the other piece that i'm i'm really excited about is connecting to open source communities so that as we build software we have a way to run and operationalize that software that doesn't have to be directly tied to a commercial outlet so you know products running in a cloud will have a commercial sla and commercial agreements between the user and the producer of that service how do you do that in an open source context how do you leverage a community bring that community software to a community-run service learn through the running of that service how to best build architect the service itself and then operationalize with the tooling and automation that service that you know how do you bring that into the open source community and that's something that we've been referring to as the operate first initiative how do you get the operationalization of software really thought of as a primary focal point in a software project where you normally think about the internals of the software the features the capabilities the functionality less about the operationalization so important shift at the open source project level which is something that i think will really be interesting and we'll see a lot of reaping a lot of rewards just in open source communities directly yeah speed and durability certainly having that reliability is great you know i love talking with you guys at red hat because you know software you know open source and you know operating systems because as it comes together in this modern era what a great great fit great work you're doing with boston universities and the mass open cloud initiative congratulations on that i got i got to ask you about this red hat graduate fellows program you have because this kind of speaks to what you guys are doing you have this kind of this this red hat graduate fellows network and the work that's being done does that translate into red hat at all from an engineering standpoint how's that how does that work together but basically what we do is we support [Music] phd students we support post docs so there's a a real direct support to the um you know that is the reg graduate fellow program and our focus there is connecting those academics the faculty members and the students to our engineers to work together on key research initiatives that we think will will help drive open source software agendas forward this really broad can be in all different areas from security to virtualization to the operating systems to cloud distributed systems and one of the things that that we've discovered is it creates a great relationship with the university and we find students that will be excited to leave university and come into the industry workforce and work at red hat so there is a direct talent relationship between the work that we do at bu and the talent that we can bring into red hat which is awesome uh you know we know these people we've worked well with them but also uh we're we're kind of expanding understanding of open source across you know more and more of academia which i think is really valuable and important for red hat when you just go out to the industry at large and helping bring a set of skills to the industry that whether they're coming with you know whether these are students that come into red hat or go elsewhere into the industry these are important skills to have in the industry so we look at you know the the how do you work in open source communities how do you operationalize software at scale now these are important things they open up youtube expand expand the territory if you will in terms of systems thinking we just talked about great collaboration you guys do a great job chris great to have you on uh quick final word from you on this year at red hat summit i know it's virtual again which we could be in person but we're starting to come out of the cove it's kind of post covered right around the corner um what's the update how would you describe the current state of red hat obviously you guys still got that that vibe you're still pumping strong a lot going on what's the current what's the current uh bumper sticker what's the vibe well in many ways because we're so large and distributed the last year has been i can't say business as usual because it's been an impact on everybody but it hasn't required us to fundamentally change and as we work across open source communities you know there's been a lot of continuity that's come through a workforce that's gone completely distributed people are anxious to get to the next phase whatever back to normal means and and people at red hat are no different so we're looking forward to what it can mean to spend time uh with colleagues in offices we're looking forward to what it means to spend time together with our friends and families and travel and all those things but from a from a business point of view red hat's focus on the open hybrid cloud and that distributed view of how we work with open source communities that's something that's that's only continued to grow and pick up over the course of the last year so it's a it's a clearly an important area for for the industry and uh you know we've we've been busier than ever the last year so uh interesting interesting times for everybody well it's great to see and i love how the culture maintains it's its relevance its coolness intersection between software open source and systems great great working congratulations chris thanks for coming on thank you all right i'm john furrier here with the cube for red hat summit 2021 thanks for watching [Music] hello and welcome back to thecube's coverage of red hat summit 21 virtual i'm john furrier host of thecube this year virtual again soon to be in real life post covet as the fall comes into play we're gonna start to see life come back and the digital transformation continues to accelerate and we've got a great guest stephanie cheers senior vice president and general manager at red hat cube alumni great to see you stephanie thanks for coming on no it's my pleasure john thanks for having me i am thrilled to be here with you and look forward to doing it in person soon i can't wait a lot of people on the vaccine some say that by the fall vaccines where pretty much everyone 12 and over will be vaccinated but we're going to start to see the the the onboarding of real life again but never going to be the same digital business at the speed of online offline almost redefine and reimagine not the old offline online paradigms you're starting to see that come together that's the focus that's the top story in the technology industry that really brings together the topic that i'd like to talk to you about which is edge computing and rel and linux this is the topic where all the action is obviously hybrid operating models have been pretty much agreed upon by the industry that is the way it is multi-cloud is on the horizon but edge part of the distributed system this is where the action is a natural extension to the open hybrid cloud which you guys have been pioneering take me through your thoughts on this edge computing dynamic with rel yeah so as you said we have been on this open hybrid cloud strategy for eight years or so very focused on providing customers choice both in where they run what they run how they run their applications and the beauty of this strategy is the strategy indoors because it's able to adapt to new technologies coming in and as you said edge is where things are happening now it's enabling customers to do so many new and different things you take kind of all of the dynamics that are happening in technology with data being produced everywhere new even architectures and compute capabilities that can bring compute right out there to the data you get 5g networks coming in incredible advances in telco and networking you pull that out now you've created a dynamic where the technology can really make edge a viable place to now extend how open hybrid cloud can reach and deliver value and we're our goal is to bring our platform and our ecosystem to do everything from the core of your data center out to public clouds multiple public clouds and now bring that all the way out to the edge you know you talk about edge you know you thought decentralization distributed computing these are the paradigms that are getting getting reimagined if you will and expanded um you guys talk about and you talk about specifically this idea of digital first economy requires a new kind of infrastructure talk about this because this is you know some say virtual first media first data first video first i mean developer first everything's like a first thing but this is focuses on the new normal take us through this new economy it's really about how you focus on being able to deliver digitally with decisions near the data and to be able to adapt to that it's thinking about how you take footprints and now your footprint out at the edge becomes a part of that i think one of the things that's really exciting about edge is it does does have some specific use case requirements and we're seeing some things come back things like we've talked in the past about heterogeneous computing and heterogeneous architectures and the possibilities that exist there now at the edge we're seeing different architectures show up which is is great to see being able to bring a platform that can allow the use of those different architectures out at the edge to deliver value is a great thing in addition we're seeing bare metal come back out at the edge you can really imagine spaces where out at the edge you have new architectures with bare metal deployments and you're operating containers that are touching directly onto that bare metal it brings a a whole new paradigm to how to deliver value but now we can bring the consistency of what linux and rel and openshift with containers can bridge across that whole space so heterogeneous computing distributed computing multi-vendor if you kind of weave those keywords together you have to have a supporting operating model that allows for different services cloud services network services application services work together this kind of puts an emphasis on a control plane a software platform that could bring this together this is the core if i understand the red hat strategy properly you guys are going right at this this this this point is that true yeah that's absolutely right it is when when everything else you can get value from everything else changing what stays the same to help keep you efficient and consistent across it and that's where we focus on the platforms and as as open hybrid cloud changes with different optionalities our focus is to bring that sort of single common control plane that provides consistency so you can develop once and reuse but make it adaptable to how you want to leverage that application as a container as a vm on bare metal out at the edge on multiple public clouds it's really about expanding that landscape that open hybrid cloud can touch and you'll see in in other discussions you know one of the places we're going into new is in the edge managed services also become part of that paradigm so it really is our focus to be that common control plan provide accessibility uh while still delivering consistency and and let's face it consistency down at the operating system level that's what starts to deliver you things like security and boy it's a critical topic today right to make sure that as you expand and distribute and you got compute running out there with data security is top of mind i have to ask you we've been having many conversations in the open source community linux foundation cncf kubecon cloudnativecon and other other communities and the and the common thread is i want to get your reaction to the statement the statement is edge computing's foundation must be open across the board talk about what's your reaction to that and how does that relate to red hat and what you guys are doing at the edge and with rail i mean we really believe in open source brings compatibility and standardization that allows innovation to grow in any new technology fragmentation causes the death of the new technology so you our focus is it will have to be i mean we firmly believe it absolutely has to be built on an open platform that has standards so that the ecosystem and the ecosystem around edge is complex you have multiple hardware capabilities multiple vendors there any edge deployment will be multi-vendor so how do you pull all of that together an ecosystem it is about having that foundation be open and be able to be accessible and built upon by everyone you know you're talking earlier about the edge in 5g and we're just talking about open this is the future of computing both consumer and enterprise whether it's you know a factory or a consumer wearing a wearable device or sensors on on cameras on lights and cities and all these things are happening i want to get your reaction to that because there's a difference between industrial iot devices and consumer iot devices both have different ramifications you know 5g certainly is not so much a consumer as it is also a business technology as you get the kind of throughput you're seeing so both consumer and industrial enterprise capabilities are emerging what's your position on that i mean i think it it edge is one of those things that it's been hard for people to wrap their head around a bit because what we deal with with edge in our own personal lives whether that be in our connected home or our mobile phone that's one view of what edge does and one set of value that it does but from uh from a separate lens edges everything from um how telco is deployed to how data is aggregated in from sensors and how decisions are made i mean we're seeing in spaces whether it be in manufacturing and adding ai onto manufacturing floors how do you have you know in vehicles i mean vehicles are becoming sort of mobile software centers now so there is a whole shift in edge that is different from industry 4.0 and from kind of operational transformation edge that it's driving all the way into kind of the things that we see every day which is more the mobile space and how our homes are connected um and i think now we're starting to see a real maturity in how the world views edge to be able to compartmentalize what enterprise edge is able to do how edge can change operational technologies as well as how edge can change out of our daily lives great great vision great insights definitely awesome um thought leadership there i totally agree i think it's exciting you see confluence of so many awesome technologies and a bright future with the technology platforms and with society open open now is de facto everything not just in tech and truth whether it's journalism or reporting society and security again trust open trust technology all coming together the confluence of all those going on so i think you got a great read on that so thanks for sharing um red hat summit what's new tell us what's new here and what's being talked about that no one's heard before and what's the existing stuff that's getting better yeah we'd love to so we are really we are really doubling down on edge within our portfolio we have you probably saw in november we had some announcements both in openshift as well as in rel in order to add features and capabilities that deliver specifically for edge use cases things like the ability to do updates and roll back in a rel deployment we are continuing to drive things into our products that cater to the needs of edge deployments as part of that we are engaged with a whole lot of customers today deploying their edge and that's across industries things from telco to energy to transportation and so as we look at all of those cases that we've been kind of engaged with and delivering value to customers we are bringing forward the red hat edge brand it's going to be our collection point to shine a spotlight for how the features and functions in our portfolio can come together and be used to deliver in edge deployments it'll be our space where we can showcase use cases where we're seeing success with customers but really to pull together because it is a portfolio story and it's an ecosystem story how do we pull that together in one spot and in order to support that here at summit we are announcing some really key additions into rel 8.4 that really focus on the specific needs of what edge is driving you'll see things like the ability in in rel to create streamlined os image generation and we can simply manage that into container images that contain our magic right to be able to repeatably deploy an image repeatably deployed application out to the out to the edge that has become a key need in these edge deployments so we've simplified that so operations teams can really meet the scale of their fleets and deploy it in a super consistent way we've added capabilities image builder we had brought out already but we've added capabilities to create customized installation media it simplifies for bare metal deployments and as i mentioned out of the edge where it's really small bare metal deployments where you can bring that container right onto their bare metal you can imagine a lot of situations where that brings a lot of value we introduced in rel 8.0 pod man as our um as our container engine and we've added new automatic updates in that so again getting back to security fixes simple to ensure that you have the latest security fixes application updates and we're continuing to add changes and updates into universal base image universal base image is a collection of user space packages that are available to the community fully redistributable the goal of those user space packages is to enable developers to be able to create container images with those packages included and then they can redistribute them when they're run on openshift or they're run on rel so we can really work through that user space and that host matching and we can stand behind that matching then we can support it but it allows for a lot of freedom and flexibility with universal base image to really expand where we can go and and help folks kind of create deploy and develop their applications we're also moving into i think one of the things you see in edge is a real industry slant um we're starting to see edge deployments take on real industry flavors and so we are engaging in some spots things like whether it be from automotive to industrial and operational technology how do we engage in those industry verticals how do we engage with the right partners one of the things that's key that we're looking at because it is core to what we do is things like functional safety and uh we're working with a company called exita who's a leader in the space for functional safety for how do we bring that that level of security and certification into the rel space when it's deployed out there at the edge so um it's an exciting space everything from the technology to the partnerships to how he engages industry verticals but this is uh i'm really excited to have the red hat i can tell i'm super excited um you know one of the things that's interesting is that the little indie industry industry trivia as thecube's been around for us for 11 years now we've been to all the red hat events and ibm events for many many years but i actually interviewed arvin who's now the ceo of ibm who now owns red hat at red hat summit in san francisco like at this rate and of course i'm connecting the dots here in real time it's an operating system that hits bare metal open hybrid cloud edge public cloud and across the enterprise it's an operating system okay so okay we know all know that okay you apply that to a cloud operating model you have some system software so the question which by the way is what's going to power the next gen cloud i think is what arvin wants and you guys hope so the question for you stephanie is what applications do you hope to con to create on top of and what do you have today that rail is powering because if you have great system software like rel that's enabling applications i'm assuming that's cloud services that's new cloud native take us through that that part of the stack what's your vision yeah absolutely and um and i think one of the one of the key things that i would touch on is that it's part of the reason we build our portfolio the way we do right we have rel of course for your for your kind of linux deployments that you described but rel core os is part of openshift and that consistency delivers into the platform and then both of those can then serve the applications that you need to deploy and we are really excited to be able to do things like um work with the transport transportation industry folks like allstrom who do really bring edge capabilities all the way out into the rails of the train systems they from high-speed trains to metros to monorail they have built their whole strategy on rel and ansible automation platform it's about the platform just as you said that operating system delivering the flexibility to pull the applications on top and those applications could be anything from things that require functional safety right things like um in in vehicles as an example could be anything from artificial intelligence which goes out into manufacturing but having that stable platform underneath whether or not you're using rel or openshift that consistency it opens up the world to how applications can be deployed on it but i am super excited about what ai and machine learning out at the edge can do and what being able to bring really hardened security capabilities out to the edge what that opens up for new technologies and businesses that's super exciting and i think the edge is a great um exclamation point around any debate anyone might have had around what the distributed architecture is going to look like it's pretty clear now what the landscape is from an enterprise standpoint and given that what should people know about the edge what's the update what's the modern takeaway now that we're i mean obviously covid has proven that there's a lot of edge applications that kind of were under forecast or accelerated working at home dealing with network security you name it it's been kind of over amplified for sure but now that kovid's kind of come in this light at the end of the tunnel coming to an end it's going to be still a hybrid world i mean hybrid everything not just hybrid cloud hybrid everything so edge now cannot be ignored what should people take away from red hat summit this year absolutely i i think i think it's the possibilities that edge can bring and there are different stages of maturity telco beautiful example of how to deploy edge and telco market as a market continues to drive the the kind of pioneer what is done in edge you see a lot of embedded edge right things that you deploy or your business may deploy that is you purchase it from a company and it's it's more embedded as an appliance level and then there's what the enterprise will do with edge specifically for their businesses what i think you'll see is a catch-up across all of these spaces that those three are complementary right you may may consume some of your edge from a partner in a full solution you may build some of your own edge as you expand your data center and distribute it and your main leverage of course you'll leverage what's being done by the telcos so what i think you'll see is a balance in multiple types of edge being deployed and the different values that it can that it can deliver stephanie final question for you and thanks for taking the time great conversation an interview here for red hat summit as a general manager you're constantly talking to customers i know that personally you've told me that many stories off-camera but also you have to look inside the organization run the business keep an eye on the on the product roadmap and make sure everything's pumping on all cylinders what is the customers telling you right now and what's the common pattern that people are are talking about things that they're looking to do projects they're funding and what's the most important story that we should be covering and what's the most important story people aren't talking about so i think one of the things i'm i'm really saying as you mentioned at the beginning we've been talking about open hybrid cloud for a long time there was a period of time where hybrid cloud was happening to folks or kind of it was it was um a bit uh a bit some developers were using it from here now hybrid cloud is intentional it is very intentional about how customers are strategically taking a view of what they deploy where how they deploy it and um and taking a advantage of the optionality that hybrid can do so that's one of the things i'm most excited about i think the the next steps that will happen is a balancing of how do they expand that out into how do they balance a managed services addition into their hybrid cloud how do they manage that with also having vms and a large vm deployment on-prem to me now the biggest thing that is being looked at is how do companies make these decisions in a strategic way that is is um kind of holistic rather than making point decisions and i am seeing that transition in the customers i talk to it's not how do i deal with hybrid cloud it's how do i make hybrid cloud um work for me and really deliver value to me and how do i make those decisions as a company and honestly that requires kind of what you talked about earlier it requires within those customers to have the structure the organizational structure the communication the transparency the openness that you talked about that takes a strategy like open hybrid cloud a long way so it's both the people and the process and the technology coming together yeah stephanie we do so many interviews on the cube um and you've been on so many times to go back and look back and say you know in that time that year 2010 we were talking about this just i was talking to a friend and we were talking about 2015 that was the big conversation of moving to the cloud you know and startups are all there born in the cloud so you know early generation was all about the startup cloud they all got that 2015 was like moved to the cloud this year the conversation isn't about moving to the cloud it's about scale and all those enterprise requirements now that are coming about from the hybrid now that that's been decided you're starting to see that operating model connect so it's not so much moving to the cloud it's i've moved to the cloud and now i got to run some now enterprise grade scale operationally what's your reaction to that absolutely i mean to me the um i love the intentionality that i'm seeing now in customers but when it comes down to it it's about speed of deploying applications it's about um having the security and the stability in order to deploy that to give you confidence in order to go out and scale it out so to me it is speed stability and scale those three comes together and how do you pull that together with all of the choices we have today in the technologies today to deliver value and competitive differentiation open source is winning and you guys are doing a great job stephanie thank you for coming on spending so much time chatting here on the cube for red hat summit thanks for your time well my pleasure john good to see you okay great to see you this is thecube's coverage of red hat summit 21 virtual i'm john furrier with thecube thanks for watching hello welcome back to thecube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual i'm john furrier host of thecube cube virtual we're remote we're not in person this year like last year soon we'll be back in person we've got a great guest here mark potts managing director at accenture for the red hat relationship mark great to see you thanks for coming on thecube hey thanks for having me john i really appreciate it now we've been covering pretty extensively throughout this event as well as you know the many many years the impact of cloud computing obviously you guys have a really big strategic relation with ibm and now red hat red hat's part of ibm it's pretty clear that you know the red hat's got this operating system mindset of open source and you know innovation it's extending into cloud cloud native and edge distributed computing that's kind of in their dna if you will distributed computing and system software and open source kind of the perfect storm so really interesting as this enables new services you guys are on on the front lines working with the biggest companies in the world as the global business is changing so i want to get your your take on red hat and what you guys are doing together but first give a quick overview of accenture's role with red hat your role there what you do yeah thanks perfect john so mark potts as you mentioned i'm the managing director responsible for our global business with red hat and our partnership with red hat um as you probably saw in our announcements last fall around the september timeframe accenture made a very large bold announcement about forming a new cloud-first business unit within accenture and so we're going to invest 3 billion dollars into that business unit we're going to dedicate 70 over 70 000 people worldwide to that business unit in that cloud first initiative and as part of that cloud fish and first initiative we've also developed our new hybrid cloud strategy and we're looking for new partners and existing partners to help us grow in that hybrid cloud strategy and that hybrid cloud business we see red hat as a very important partner in that business and as you mentioned they've also been you know in the distributed computing for a long time we also see them as a partner for clients that are lifting and shifting and migrating to the cloud on rel like sap and other workloads like that and i'm excited to talk to you today about openshift and ansible and all those great technologies that red hat brings to the table for our hybrid cloud approach and strategy that's awesome great investment you know i love what paul comey was saying on his keynote you know every cio should be a cloud operator i mean running business at scale this is what hybrid cloud is all about and so with your new hybrid cloud strategy and the formation of the new business group at accenture what kind of challenges are you guys looking to solve what are the opportunities that you're seeing for companies how do you guys solve those challenges that are what are you guys looking at right now yeah it's a great question and as you mentioned the keynote so karthik narayan who actually runs our cloud first business was actually part of that keynote with larry slack as well uh earlier stack sorry uh as well and so um he mentioned in his keynote something called the cloud continuum right and so historically accenture has been working with our partner on cloud native development moving to about 20 to 25 of the existing workloads in the data center the easy stuff to the cloud right but now we realize that there's a need for the hybrid cloud there's a need to modernize maybe on premise there's a need to maybe modernize in the cloud one way or the other and then we also look at the holistic view of cloud on-prem edge and that's what karthik's talking about when he's talking about the the cloud continuum and that's a very important part of our strategy within accenture and openshift really helps us meet those needs so if a client is a little bit nervous about taking some of those complex workloads but they want to modernize and they want to use the latest and greatest cloud native technologies but they want to do it on-prem and move to the cloud a little bit later they can do that with openshift right and red hat that's a great platform for that maybe it's a client that wants to lift and shift and get to the cloud as soon as possible close their data centers save that cost of money and then modernize later but they don't want to necessarily be locked and want to be locked into one cloud provider again openshift is great for that take those legacy workloads that you move to the public cloud modernize them on red hat openshift maybe it's rosa on aws maybe it's aro on azure and when you're ready to you can move those to any other public cloud if you'd like to um when you're ready to right and that whole control plane as we call it being able to see across public cloud uh on-prem the edge is really important for our story and our strategy and red hat openshift and red hat's a satellite and those technologies bring a lot to the table for us to meet those needs of our clients and our customers that's great insight there mark i really appreciate that and one of the things brought up when you were saying that i was thinking myself okay the cloud conversation has many evolutions and you know go back five years was oh move to the cloud everyone was moving to the cloud that was the big discussion point now it's you know enterprise ready the cloud get that next level scale and as you know in the enterprise i really do everything complicated there's a lot of legacy and it's existing stuff so this you know this this is the next enterprise at scale is the conversation that includes hybrid multi-clouder on the horizon so with that can you expand on what you mean by this cloud continuum that you refer to that essentially refers to and what is needed to make it a reality for customers yeah i mean what's really needed is is the latest greatest in hybrid cloud technology like openshift and what red hat brings to the table right it's also new skills and new capabilities um and policy management and those types of things that are important for a company to decide when they're ready to move those workloads to the cloud right they need the ability to see across their entire infrastructure like i mentioned earlier whether that be a public cloud provider whether that be in their existing data center in a colo or on the in the edge like in a retail store or something like that they need we need the ability to see across us that sing all that infrastructure as a single control plane so we can manage and know where things are and feel confident about security and everything with our clients the other big thing that we need is skills skills to you know build the migration the modernization and more importantly the interaction and integration into legacy workloads like the mainframe for example accenture's got a lot of use cases leveraging red hat open shift for a cloud coupling solution where we interact and build new applications that connect to the mainframe sitting right next to the mainframe but they're new digital mobile applications web applications that can be quickly uh modified and deployed in into production at a rapid pace right and so when we look at everything that's needed it's skills it's technology partners like red hat um and then it's it's really building assets and offerings to help make that journey for our clients better and and secure we just found out here at the event that you guys that accenture have been recognized as red hat's global systems integrated partner of the year for north america congratulations on that um what do you see as some of the key reasons for the recognition was there any thing that they called out in particular obviously you guys have a great track record well-known brand um you're known for you know creating a lot of value for companies as they do digital transformation what's the what's the recognition for this year yeah we're super excited about this right i mean this is we've been partners with red hat for a long time i think we were one of the first system of graders if not the first system integrators to partner with red hat many years ago right so to get this award and get it for the first time it's super exciting for us right um and so we're very grateful for that recognition and opportunity um you know i think what really would really um what got us the recognition for this award was really the effort we put into our partnership over the last 12 to 24 months right we had had a really big business in europe uh with gdpr and and the risk of bursts of going to the public cloud in europe openshift and red hat really have taken off in north america our business was lagging behind europe and we significantly invested with red hat in in new offerings and new clients and new people right new talent to build a better business and partnership in north america um you know i think a lot of the things that we got recognized with were what i mentioned earlier um some of our cloud coupling solutions for an insurance client in north america where we're building cloud native applications on red hat open shift sitting next to the mainframe we're building new cloud cloud uh native applications for a transportation company uh in in the south region of the us right so it's really that business transformation work that we're doing working with the legacy but building new core applications for our customers that are truly portable nimble and agile and they can use to get speed to the market and get to the cloud cloud first organization you guys are investing billions of dollars three billion uh that was reference i saw an article i think we covered as well on siliconangle.com congratulations cloud first also implies that cloud native is going to be there mark in all your years in the industry talk about from your personal perspective and even from accentures the the shift that's happening because it's almost mind-blowing what's going on in the sense of so fast this is accelerated even the pandemic exactly accelerated even further the opportunities that were that are available now that weren't there before and what it's done to the project timelines and what it's done as a forcing function could you share your view on the reality of the current situation and opportunities for companies to take advantage of that wave yeah and and i think accenture has done a great job talking about this recently um even from our c-suite down right and karthik wilmin has mentioned this as well in his keynote um i mean we are seeing an acceleration to get to the cloud that was completely unplanned for us i think the the numbers i heard was we thought most clients are going to get to the cloud in eight to ten years and be fully in the cloud in eight to ten years but that's accelerated with covet and the pandemic right uh we're looking at four to five years we think most our clients will be you know majority of their in their infrastructure and everything and new and new applications and legacy applications will be in the cloud right so the the change and the impact that the pandemic had had a significant impact uh on our customers and their need to to get to the cloud we've even seen those that were leaders in the cloud journey would accelerate even more right and and they're being rewarded for that acceleration right a lot of our customers that were first to cloud are seeing the benefits and seeing the the ability to scale for the pandemic like um like a lot of our customers in the in the us in particular um and i think openshift is going to help with help us with that right and and red hat in particular um and let's not be lost on the fact that rel is a great product out there as well we have many of our clients that are running sap on well and that lift and shift and moving sap to azure or to aws or google or something like that um is is a viable solution for it to help accelerate our customers as they expand right we've seen uh internationally a lot of our customers that have been really focused just uh in their local region are now expanding their business outwards and now they need to get to the cloud to be able to expand those businesses you know it's interesting mark is you know just as we're talking just you know i think about my experience over the years in the computer industry everything had to displace something else disrupt something you know mainframes were disrupted by client server now we're living in an era where with the containers and microservices and service meshes and cloud native technologies you can embrace existing legacy and and abstract away some of the complexity on the integration side right so you don't have to kill the old to bring in the new and i think this phenomenon has opened up a new class of services and you know the people i talk to and interview the leaders in the industry all have the same kind of view and the ones that stand out are the ones that recognize that the operating system of business will be software and that software hasn't yet been built and cloud's the beginning it's not just you know one cloud so i think what's interesting about red hat is that they're operating system people you almost see you know arvin kind of snapping the lines and kind of cornering the market on the operating system for business and applications then are a thousand flowers that bloom from that so very interesting um take here again that's my opinion i don't think they've said that formally but if you look at it that's kind of what's going on what's your reaction to that yeah i think you're 100 right i mean you know i i also carry a little bit of the responsibility on the ibm side and you mentioned mainframe and i mentioned mainframe a handful of times right there's a lot of customers that have this legacy estate like the mainframe in particular um and but they need to be nimble right i need to be agile and mainframe is is a challenge sometimes around that right and so to your point creating those applications that participate with the mainframe allow the the mainframe to participate better with these cloud native applications and these new digital transformation applications is a very key component to it and and so i 100 agree with with everything you said and i think i think we're going to see more around this operating system type software and i almost to an extent you you kind of view red hat openshift as kind of that new operating system right and you look at some of the announcements that red hat has made around palantir right and adding palantir and isvs to their to marketplace to allow customers that have bought openshift or make it easy for clients to buy red hat openshift and then bring in these isvs that have been certified they're secure they're easy to consume and buy it through red hat's marketplaces is it's very exciting and very interesting and very easy to do right once you get that red hat open shift layer in there that operating system and now you're bringing in products all over the place right and and all the new stuff and i think we're going to see a lot more of those announcements during summit as well yeah i think it's a 20-year run here and trillions of dollars has it's been forecasted mark great to have you on super valuable resource great insight well we've got you here let's get a quick free consulting minute here for the customers watching what's your advice uh i need some help here i want to go to the cloud i want a good i want enough head room so i can grow into i don't want to foreclose any opportunities i want to move to the cloud i want to have a hybrid distributed computing architecture i want to program my business i want infrastructure's code i want devsecops um what's my playbook what should i do yeah so sensor's got a real smart approach and strategy around this we leveraged an assessment approach really to look at what's in your which in your data center today and what you have from an infrastructure and application standpoint and actually called six hours we have a seventh r where it can completely rewrite an application and we would apply those six r's or seminars to that assessment to help you figure out the disposition of your applications and your infrastructure to figure out what is the right cloud what's the right journey i mean we talked about you know the mainframe and mainframe being an anchor in a lot of our clients data centers right how do we move those applications that have data gravity challenges to those legacy applications to the cloud how do we consider that so the right way to do it is take a holistic approach do the assessment do the disposition of your applications and then let's let accenture put together a full plan of how we would migrate you into those into the public cloud mark potts managing director accenture congratulations on your north america award partner of the year and also awesome to hear and we've been covering again cloud first totally believe it great investment that's going to pay back huge dividends for you guys and you know having the hybrid which is pretty much determined as a fact now uh in the industry congratulations thanks for coming on robert thanks thanks for having me and uh thank you red hat for the award really appreciate it and look forward to talking to you very soon all right this is thecube's coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual this is thecube virtual i'm john furrier your host thanks for watching [Music] you

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Length: 198min 33sec (11913 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 27 2021