[Music] [Music] and it's us hello folks well I'm not gonna apologize but I am actually going to apologize for popping up without warning it's all trying in the efforts of trying to make sure that we actually do alive and actually fit it into our busy lives so being able to schedule it in advance has not been possible but we wanted to get one out there as soon as we possibly could after we got back off the tour what we have been on up and down the country yes so here we are it's been a busy time it's been a very busy time and lots to tell you really yeah I have no idea where to start well I tell you where we can start we can start by saying good evening the Janus belt sahith we can say to Samantha Healey on this wet and windy evening Miranda Knight heart it says oh I'm so excited finally on line when you're going live so we've better make it a good one for you around Oh Colleen it's clean yes it's really great to have you actually live I hope you enjoy marks here hello good evening chaps he says mark rumery and risk killing good evening to you all so glad you could join us as one the same sorry it's all show short note as well no notice at all actually but of course this will be recorded and if you want to anybody wants to watch it afterwards so mr. sass King what are we going to talk about this evening and I suppose the elephant is in the room is where we've been for the past three weeks this is the elephant in the room well I think you probably do all know that we've been all the way from Albany down to Stonehenge and do you know what if we had if we had been praying to the Sun God or 30 years in advance we could not have had better whatever it's true we really couldn't and if if any of you been watching the news tonight with the flood warnings all the way across Britain and and some of the extremely wet places I think we sailed a bit close to the wind on that one yeah we were very lucky indeed but I think the important thing is we didn't just have an enjoyable tour and the people on the tour enjoyed it is that it's an unusual thing to travel down right from Auckland to explore Orkneys dennis prager tomb of the eagles maze how etc and then have the experience of travelling right down the backbone of Britain right down to to Wiltshire it's an unusual experience and of course it gives you an unusual perspective so hopefully if we chat about the tour you'll forgive us being excited about it and being excited with the people that were on it but also we don't want to give you the impression that you missed out on something that's not what it's about it's we've taken away a different perspective I think in many respects heritage one of the things that really surprised me after we made standing with stones however many years ago because it keeps saying 10 years and then realising it's more than 10 years so we'll just have it as a ballpark figure well the thing is when we did that and so there were a lot of the sites that we visited for the first time and so you know researching and writing and researching and writing and then rewriting when you find that the research is actually some of the stuff you've been reading is dough and and so we had a story to tell and going back to some of those places that we haven't been able to visit again in the interim because let's face it you know you can't you just can't go everywhere and seeing number-one stuff that we'd missed because we knew what we wanted to talk about and and other staff just yes if we did notice it we completely forgot about it there was a lot of that and then also I think I think a lot of that is to do with we've learned a lot in the interim well we weren't so blinkered to you know our own agenda I wouldn't do as we know more now than we did them we absolutely do and and also I think it's because we've learned so much over the the years in between that our own pieces of jigsaw puzzle are fitting together that much yeah yes and so there's all sorts of stuff that we've learnt about the people I tell you one of the things that blew me away more than anything else was we went to the butcher museum in devices yes we did which was we've been there before we those in fact where we where we met a good friend Katz Walker when she was doing her her lecture there on axe heads and identity but we hadn't really had a chance because of time we hadn't really had a chance to absorb the the museum in its entirety the things that just utterly blew me away was there's a bronze dagger in there with the pommel the handle is quite elaborately pinned gold pins oh and one of these pins they've actually got under a microscope so that you can see it well clearly and each pin they're gold a made of solid gold each pin is two millimeters long oh it's tiny it's you know it's smaller than the grain of rice just so exquisitely made with a little kind of pinhead that is then tapped into this daggers hold and I can you remember how many thousand there were my and they were just I I can't like tens of thousands I would defy anybody to turn to a an artisan you know technician as somebody that could repeat that today but where is good not only we just tens of thousands of these teeny teeny and made gold pins astonishing and it just it makes you completely reassess what you thought you knew and that's not just you do need a microscope to see them you do you do I mean obviously when the pins tapped in place you couldn't see it just to see them what do you need in order to work on them for goodness sakes or to know all sorts of stuff like that that yeah it just makes you appreciate oh I say well I've got a got a picture here or something else in in the museum and I'm showing now it's the the gold lozenge oh yeah that's a bit special yeah and it's bigger than you think do you know what I had seen lots photographs of that dog lozenge and I thought that it was about the size of a brooch I guess what was in my head I couldn't believe how big it was [Music] yeah you put it up I have yes it's it's blocking me out at the moment you have the spokes you have the space to yourself because I so just it's just occurred to me I've put off blocking you out now it's just occurred to me I've put this picture up and wax expected Rupert to wax lyrical about it and we can say what a beautiful thing it is and there it is you can see we did the point is yes we can't wax lyrical about it because we haven't looked it up we haven't actually studied done the study on this to be able to tell you where it came from you know in that kind of detail and we'll accept that it's a you know it comes from Stonehenge I'll tell you it's I'll put it back up again so no no I was just I was just grabbing the leaflet that the niccola gave us and I continued that the laws in jizz in priest or it will show room three of the museum I was hoping I could tell you no sorry that was an that was an early stage fail they're showing a picture of something you actually knew nothing about I'll tell you what though look I'm what I'm putting up now I'm putting up your group photograph of us at Stonehenge good day the observant amongst you'll be wondering wow that's to Rupert's oskins yeah yeah I dunno I always wanted to do that at school and never could so the other thing apart apart from dear Kathy was standing next to Rupert on the left-hand version of Rupert cath Walker who wasn't on the tour neither was Tim darling we're standing next to we were the youngest guys on this tour we were yep oh yes account well Kath wasn't on it but oh I'm saying nevertheless a jolly time was had by all and what a privilege that was that morning anyway more of that and on so starting off in Orkney did we take anything away more away from that because there were some surprises I think on Orkney [Music] traveling through visiting broad care and Stennis you know with a group of people you get asked questions that you know otherwise you probably wouldn't think you were gonna get asked and so you know our brains were tested to a certain degree but I think starting off in Braga and working our way down through the country what we tried to say to people is just memorize this place because if we're talking about one particular aspect of Neolithic culture and that is grooved we're grooved we're starts in Orkney and gradually moves down the country so you know in effect our two would be following the migration of grooved ware culture from Orkney down through the country the weather that you can marry that with megalith megalith building megalithic building I don't know that's another story I think in terms of stone circles but it's certain that Stennis itself is rated one of the oldest stone circles alongside it has to be said castle rig but which one came first that's an that's another matter yes in mind the castle ring itself hasn't been officially dated in recent years with modern tech so it would be lovely if all that was done one of the things that kept on slapping me in the face as we've been coming down because you know obviously why can I never stop researching the whole time we want to make sure that we are as far as possible people the latest information and blah-blah-blah-blah-blah constantly shocked at actually how little is genuinely known and I mean no there's all sorts of stuff that's kind of woven together because what we think well we know that we know that so we think this this this is the amount of stuff that we absolutely know for certain tiny tiny and and if you if you just leave that door open then you know there are so many possibilities that you know yeah your mind just starts going in different directions of if you like weaving different cloths well it could be that and we don't know we don't know yeah dawn Hilton says okay tell us the surprises then well I think oh what if we relative just while we're on Orkney one surprise I didn't know there was a tomb of the otters no we went to the tomb of the eagles and we booked to go to the tomb of the eagles but barely half mile from the tomb of the eagles is a bistro restaurant which is in essentially it's in a on its own in a glass box which was built for something else there's a lovely little bistro fantastic view over the over the sea to mainland Scotland and it's only half a mile from the two of the Eagles underneath this bistro got the scary's Bistro in the cliffs just below it is a Neolithic - yeah which is now called the tomb of the authors because what has got in there or you know with some the only reason it's called the tomb of the otters is completely unlike the tomb of the eagles that was called that because birds were interred there no it's called the - of the otters just because there was a lot of otter crap in there basically officers were getting in there and actually living in there but no there were no no Canterbury but it sounds like we're diminishing it but there's it's yet to be fully excavated and it promises a lot well they reckon they've done a huge amount of of work this year and I think the owner told us that didn't listen the paper was being published in December I think yes so there is stuff coming out towards the end of this year which should be really interesting cuz the tomb itself from what I've seen of it the tomb itself looks very very similar in structure to the tomb of the Eagles would you agree with that might actually as far as I can remember it has been hacked into the yes yes the the internal structure but yeah I mean that's interesting thing there you know you saying hacked into the cliff that in itself reminiscent of of Branca third largest stone circle in Britain and and it's a hinge and the ditch of the henge was hewn out of solid bedrock of course you know so you've got a tomb and the hinge dug out of bedrock that's no small feat talking of henges really and I just draw attention um dawn dawn Hilton who's watching on Facebook says she found a huge intact henge the experts in north won't give me the time of day on what's the point of research in Calamba or I I own I don't know what livings got to that but if you've well if you want to keep it secret dawn your secret is safe with us but we'd love to know what what what where you you've found we weren't taken away and run with it if you want to peel but you you say if nobody's giving you the time of day if you and I apologize if you already have but if you contact your local there'll be more than one but if you contact your local Archaeological Society then you should be able to find out categorically whether the site is listed or not if you have Matt coordinates on it and if it hasn't then yeah up to you how you how you handle that really I mean you can you can send details to us if you're if you'd like ass there we go otherwise it would be the best we've got a few people we could talk to maybe private messages yeah afterwards and we'll see what we can unravel if you like because there's so much stuff out there to be found you know sir you know be exciting if you know we thought we'd found a hinge we had a nice day had a nice day out looking for it but we couldn't we couldn't honestly modern Neolithic says evening guys evening modern Neolithic whoever you are evening mother can we call you anyway where were we tune the otters I'm going to put up a picture and it's our group inside the tomb with Eagles oh yeah there we actually had much amusement getting 60 and 70 year olds and a 91 no he wasn't out on the trolley that watching but we have to say hats off to Fred afraid old or what was Fred's surname Mike Pearson Thomson Fred Thompson yeah who who came on the tour Fred is 91 years old and Wow no stopping man I mean obviously there's limitations to how far he can walk but I think is he off to it is you have to in was going turn around with Rick staring to Iran with Rick like next month to Egypt earlier this year he's just 91 years old he's not letting light get in his way have to say talking of phenomenal people Jeff Watson is with us don't honor Jeff hello Jeff and you give us an opportunity to give you deep thanks once again indeed for helping make our to make the tour enjoyable for our for our friends I hope you enjoyed being there turning up and showing off you're showing off that's not your style [Laughter] - yes meta suit are below and it was knockouts thing to do yeah what and Jeff brought some of his astonishingly beautiful flint knapping and in fact not just Flint a Jeff the man will map anything yeah beautiful stuff I was gonna say actually as an aside Jeff send me your home address will you please I want to send you something but yeah it was that was a grand day out yeah so Jeff going back so I have to interrupt Jeff says people I spoke to on Orkney told me the tomb of the author's is a bit well fake as in it wasn't excavated properly and the owner is a little devious well having been there we didn't get that impression at all in fact we got the impression that it's a very important site and it's scheduled to be properly properly looked at yeah there's more tourism meets the eye yeah certainly there there's a lot of lab analysis that's being done on what they think of ated from it over the last couple of months so watch this space I guess you know I mean we can only tell you what what they said to us so you know if a scientific paper is coming out in in December rest assured we will be waiting to get our fingers on it I mean that the thing is realistically there is there's no reason for a moment to suppose that there shouldn't be actually quite a few more of these kinds of tombs on the all commuters I mean we know that was on South Francine but but you know throughout the organization there should still be quite a few Isis mentioned it on a line or whether it was when one of the podcasts but the the geophys for the cans brach which I just happens to include a neolithic settlement completely unexpected apart from a few bore holes but it's there you can see in them in in the geophys could be another skara brae under there this is this is the ridiculous thing about Orkney it's it's almost inevitable that there's so much on under the soil because i think that's another thing about being on Orkney and being there you really appreciate why there is so much there because there's so much stone to build anything on Orkney you just have to peel back them turf and later fewer or at least you know go down to the coast and just chisel a few bits of stone out and you're good to go you know building material is phenomenal and and it really does give you a perspective on what the rest of the country must've looked like because we're on ought me they were making it with stone because the stone was just literally right there just bend over and pick it up and so all over the rest of the country where they would have been doing the same essentially the same design style in wood and that's why there's nothing left to see because it was one oh yes thank you Jeff for the mic pit something regarding the barber surgeon Jeff posted a link to it yes the the barber surgeon controversy that Avebury yes that one you mean the crushed men the crushed man yes the not crushed not crushed man no we just being cryptic no should we talk about that so people know what we're talking about well you can do my brain cells there is a well-known story that one of the big stones that when I guess it was Christian nonsense when they were trying to wreck the heathen place that they tried to topple a stone and it fell on top of a bloke and crushed him and and just hold that thought I just want to say hello to Dave Terpening who is he says just says hello or fairly new to your work but I'm thrilled to have found you both videos newsletters podcasts and V's broadcasts we've always been fascinated by the circles changes changes cans and diamonds etc thank you well Dave thank you for saying so great to have you with us yeah anyway on with Rupert uncrushed yes so this is this is a complete myth and this it's Mike Pitts who unraveled this apparently that in actual fact the way the stone fell well there was a cavity and it and and actually this it appears that this bloke was buried into that cavity his skeleton was not crushed at all I think if a 40 or 50 turn up of stone had actually fallen on top of somebody it probably have made quite a mess at least of his ribcage but no he was actually intact so it's a myth it's wonderful though isn't it it's like so many of the myths somebody invent a story about somebody doing bad instead of doing something bad and he got punished for it yeah some stones rather if he's gonna turn to turn to stone he crushed under one yeah and that's and and you know I have to say he not hands up I have not read the the source material I don't know where Mike Pitts was getting his information from but you know Mike Pitts is is certainly you know he is a voice to be trusted but the thing is that has that skeleton being tested and dated because the stones were toppled in the 16th century was something like yeah okay so they're not pretty story which means that if this bloke was buried underneath what kind of macabre story do we have here you know was it just some was it some poorly homeless person who crawled under there for a bit of shelter and just died in there or was it somebody who was done away with little I know a good place to hide him you know and his body was hidden there it would be very interesting to find out how old that skit actually is yeah yes Dave Terpening of course had a autocorrect problem the word changes of course was hinges hinges David White says hi and Jeff Watson says the NT guys still reel out the old tale the the the tail out on guided tours about do they yeah yeah hello Jan so glad you're enjoying the conversation great to have you with us thanks for saying so Rupert are we done with the young its name of the podcast right there yeah yeah I'm done with young crush man I don't know anymore alright here's an interesting one I'm putting up a a pic of the very corner of one of the long campster Ken Gray cans of campster okay the very corner oh yeah well it's one of the horns okay the north end the north end yes that's forming you know yes is this the origins or you know an early example of a tomb of forecourt well had a sort sir yeah I can't remember it remember the dates on the canister Kent wrote about it in a book [Laughter] yes a book and thereby hangs a tale doesn't it well actually you know no secrets you can tell people what's you've just done about the book well it's out of print in England so I'm reclaiming the rights from Thames and Hudson because it's an expensive book to print and if they aren't interested in just doing a reprint then there's a chunk of the photography that I'd like to read you anyway so I'm just reclaiming the rights and the wrong book [Laughter] just hold it up so people know that you know it does actually exist and you're not pretending the interesting thing about you know what I didn't actually put up dating oh it does actually have content the the the essay at the end as well as kind of honest on the other hand it's a bit rubbish holding up and display what I do want to tell you is Dave says he wants the book sadly you'll have to get it from America it's out of print in Britain but but tens Knudsen New York still have copies and I know they do because a couple of the people who were on the tour had just ordered it so [Music] always because I asked you the age of the hamster cans well the thing about [Music] the thing about Kempster is that the belong can did you shown that picture more because that way you yes I'll show it again it's it's yeah one of the horns if you like because the originally they were separate cans so if you look at the I haven't got any other pics with you to demonstrate what you're saying but anyway okay hang on a second I'll see the pictures stop blocking I mean the reason I'm mentioning this is because a Scotland is chock-a-block with stuns and I'm sort of moving on to or trying to move on to this dating thing and trying to illustrate the spread of of stuff across the Neolithic and this stuff wasn't necessarily contemporary and with each other stuff wasn't contemporary with each other necessarily although we see it together now in the landscape it wasn't together then and showing you know how things like that may have influenced others how trends may have started somewhere and evolved elsewhere into shapes and forms that well the timeline is so confused kind of it's because you're a very narrow frame okay if you see the two entrances so there's there's one yep one here well they were separate cans and originally they were separate cans about 4000 BC they're about 6000 years old and it was it was later that that the whole structure was made into a single long cam so you know it's got a long and complicated history that we you know we don't fully understand you know we have a sequence we know how it would there's actually three individual cans because the smaller individual cannot my driving me nuts in here itself little one gonna weigh three kids I don't know why I mean obviously nobody knows why why is it that the two cans were incorporated into a single stroke yeah we're the into a structure that contained a four quart the interesting thing is you saying the horns which were at the north end where it completely echoes a Long Barrow yeah is that the the burials are at the north end of this enormous lis long structure and and so you have this long tapering tail that there's no burials in there the barrels on the north end and so if you go to Mero likes a Weiland smithy always Kenny in two of the places that we visited the other week but again you have the burials that are all at the forecourt end and and this in enormous structure was what was that Mound actually for we have no I posted that question there because GRA Ken's was the first site on the mainland on mainland Scotland that we visited after we came across from from Oconee Dave Happy Days Dave totally is in the States so getting the book should be no problem for him he's committed now because you said it well I want the book hello from sunny California he says well hello from very rainy Warwickshire and Rupert hello from it's a very very rainy sunny sunny south of France we actually have a storm going on here earlier the lightening has stopped now but it's still pouring rain so sunny California that's clearly the place to be Dave says here's a question which I suffer from autocorrect again is it correct to assume most of the narrow burials are currently Barrow burials yes is it correct to assume most of the Barrow burials are currently in museums or most just lost over time in the contents of the burials I presume yes I presume that's what Dave means and I think I think the answer is yes it is fairly safe to assume because if they weren't subject to outright treasure hunter robbery during the late 19th century then any artifacts and any yeah I can't I can't think of an extant you know these still visible in the landscape a barrow that hasn't been robbed or and or excavated properly not a barrow just any time somebody talks about an unexcavated site there then made scan its logo and wants my dreams you know where you have if you don't know it names can I'll just get this wonderful book out here most can yes okay and the reason I talk about my scan is because those of you that don't know it it's absolutely enormous anyway you can see that's a photograph of I can't yes okay so I don't know if you can just see if it's likely one way I can see a little person on the top just can't enormous can is it's just stupidly huge and the thing is that you're not gonna make a can that big for somebody who wasn't important and and it's never been excavated because it's a Ken where would you start you know you start pulling out rubble the whole things can collapse and that's it it's never been never been excavated and Lord only knows the underneath Miranda Miranda night hat says I often wonder what the long mound was for that is the part that didn't contain any chambers all burials Wow yeah you and a lot of a lot of folk Miranda that's one of nearly buildings unexplained and I think it's probably fair to you know we might be way off the mark but it's worth still making the analogy with it you know and modern churches and burials you know that you you have burials either in the cemetery outside or you walk up the the aisle of a of a church and there's people buried in the ground but that doesn't make the building a burial site you know the building clearly serves all sorts of other functions and so it's fair to assume I think they're a Long Barrow was you know whether it was a meeting place or a ceremonial place or a massive place of religious ceremony and block you know the the burials were an aspect of it not the main function of it I think and in many ways were sunk because trying to work out human beings not logical standpoint doesn't work doesn't work doesn't work we're a bunch of total retards is that politically correct well we're we're just honestly I mean you look at the state of the world politically today oh here we go all over the planet it doesn't matter where you look you think humans logical so we can we can we can we can we can encompass some good stories you know what we think they might have been up to building them so long yeah but I don't know also it's a very very good thing to bring up there because something that Mike and I were both very surprised about because even if we had known it before you know what it's like wait wait you know you you research and Yuri nothing I think I know where you're going in your head yeah and it's actually only when something hits you in the face that your own eyes would you know what I never really appreciated the meaning of this before on this they're the two biggest long bearers that we visited on this trip so West Kennet second-largest Long Barrow in Britain and wailings smithy which size-wise well it's up there but the thing is that the sites themselves were in use for a long period of time but the burials were all made in a tiny window of time and it's like whoever these people were whether I mean particularly Whelan smithy I think they they estimate that it is possible that all the people buried there were buried with potentially even within a 10 year period but it's even within you know less than that and yet here's a site that was in use for hundreds of years so what are these people enormous Lee important and the site was built because of them well no because it was a timber mortuary before that so we know it was a burial you know it was a death place before but but why did that then become important that later they wanted to make the site into something that we're never gonna forget that you know who were these people the burials were all in a tiny space of time now the same thing applies with West Kennet where you've got this enormous Neolithic lumber and yet the blocking stones you know that you see that enormous Lee the insane size of those stones blocking the portal well those stones were put up there a thousand years after the main barrow was built yeah so okay [Music] looks as if it's part of a big design featured dough and at nearly fifty minutes into this broadcast we get to the absolute nitty-gritty of what we took away from doing the tour and that's stretching out the time frame of what was happening in the Neolithic and West Kennet Long Barrow absolutely nails it at the time that West Kennet was built Avebury which if you go to West Kennet you associate with West Kennet because not far away as that is the site of the the sanctuary you can almost see it from West Kennet you can see syllabary Hill and the Avenue goes up over the hill and and down and towards Avebury at the time that West Kennet was built Avebury was a wooden house yes it was a little square wood little square wooden house that was what was there approximately in the center of one of the inner circles not only that it was surrounded by a sort of square arrangement of stones whether that came at the same time as a little little wooden house we don't know but Avebury that were every we know was not there when West Kennet was built when the burials occurred Avebury was there when they put those kick-ass blocking stones up there to stop anybody going in or out and I suspect it was the same removal [Laughter] okay [Music] Rowan Mae who says do you think they added stones as remembrance over time like leaving stones at graves today while saying it that is perfectly possible I don't think that myself I think people's attitudes or things that happen outside of their own lifetime attitudes change or remembrances fade the reasons for things fade and so things that may occur that's a perfectly good idea at one time will be just as mystifying to people a hundred two hundred years later almost as much as they are to us that is possible also that's all I'm saying yesterday it also I think if you look at a lot of the sites you know take any stone circle really but you can see that it was conceived as as a stone circle there would be little point in adding one stone at a time if you know particularly if it's at one of the sites that is a lunar calendar if you like you know it was it was designed as this thing but I'm just wondering if there's any sites where that well that could be case there's certainly something not in Britain there's certainly some across Europe and even going into India that you know maybe you could apply that to rogue cow says good day from Oregon USA good day from diner young says hello from from southern Alabama USA very welcome all you folks from across the pond yeah yeah that's exciting yeah and and it was yes all our tour members I have to say we're also from the US and several from Oregon indeed we're not surprising really when the put together by a peasant crew of the archaeology channels yeah in Oregon so yeah anyway getting back to yeah the stretch of time I don't know how to describe it you know we're talking about a stretch of a thousand years and we tend to collapse everything together because we can see it now all together in the landscape and it wasn't so there and that is going to be the topic for our next podcast in a few days time and one of the things that is you know it's worth making the point and it's something that we we are exploring you know I've said a lot of times in the past that I'm interested in the the evolution of man the development of man I'm not interested in the foibles of men so so you know where you can have you know just something that appears to be mysterious but it's just because one person had a slightly perverse way of dealing with things you know and and when you start stretching out this timeline as mike is saying there you know we because we know so little we can pop compartmentalized stuff into you we talked about the Neolithic and we talked about the bronze age almost flippantly you know without really saying well yeah what I just said in less than a second is actually five thousand years or or whatever and you realize quite how much capacity there is within that time band for the foibles of many many people so we see something anomalous and we and we think of it as something mysterious but it might just be because one person said no we're doing that one like this here because I fancy that and it might be no more than that you know we have to be very careful about kind of reading significance into something where it really might not belong and so often these things as we know nowadays in our time in our time the the kernel the seed for so much change in a moment can be simple personality yeah one man you know with one personality one kick-ass personality and used to clean with an idea can change stuff so that you know we 5,000 years later can look back thinking it was a general it was a globe global thing yes it might spread you know to appear global but the instance you know you can you can look to this is why it's so it's so easy to make up stories and and why will absolutely never know that the truth but it the forcing us to look at these things must bring up the possibility that these things don't just arise out of some kind of you know collective understanding it's most likely they arise out of the megalith or mania of one man yeah yeah it's it is it's very it's very sobering really when you know you're kind of faced with something that always seems so woman and I would just so love that to be the case so many reasons but I'm having a senior moment no change there then I was gonna say something else about the vulture Museum what was it hope the Jade on X ah right there there is there was a jadeite ax those of you that have been following the podcasts for for a while may remember we particularly if you look at our page notes on the website that we did something we mentioned the jadeite axes that were found in Britain in fact they're in Scotland and they came from the Italian Alps and these are beautifully polished axe heads genuinely stunning but there's one in the wheelchair Museum was found in Wiltshire it's another one from the Italian Alps and it is so so finely polished it looks as if someone's painted it with nail polish it is so gloss so brilliantly polished and they reckon that that took a thousand hours just to polish it to that high kind of mirror finish a thousand hours and here's the crazy thing it's it's a beautiful axe head with a bear with a very finely ground curved cutting edge which has a large chip in it right well that large chip happened in the early 20th century when the the the woman who owned it I think she was annoyed with her husband or something we were being told I can't remember but anyway she no I think she I seem to remember that it was that she was annoyed that it wasn't performing very well as a letter opener as an envelope opener he said what it was and she threw it at the window yeah and it was in throwing it out of the window that it did it chipped the cutting edge so there you are you've got something that was beautifully intact for 5,000 years until somebody lobbed it out of window a hundred years ago you have to laugh really yeah Colleen says she's in Klamath Falls Oregon I would love to be in touch with tour members from Oregon is there any way messages private messages as keepers of data I'm not sure that we would be totally legal if we gave okay is if you go to the archaeology Channel website yeah and and certainly if you contact Rick Pettigrew at the archaeology Channel and there would be in fact we could certainly give you that information because because that's that's public domain stuff so you could contact Rick Pettigrew at at the archaeology channel over the archaeology legacy Institute which is the umbrella for the channel which is in at Eugene yeah because quite sure that you know I mean Rick could pass your capacity or email on to the tour members and then they could contact you I mean that would be the legal way of sorting that one out Bilbo seven six two four says hello from Motor City Motor City we presume you mean Detroit that's what I'm guessing yeah tell us if we're wrong if so or even if not so you're very welcome yes road crews near near Eugene what is it about Eugene and archaeology what's going must be something Rick talking of which were already in talks for developing next year's tour it was very good that's a yes I I have never before this trip I have never been in amongst the stones at Stonehenge it was a first for me and I have been to Stonehenge lots of times I've driven past it I can't tell you how many times hundreds and I was not prepared I was actually quite emotional as we know were prepared we both were for the immensity of that site can I share your photos taken not long after dawn it's the one with with Linda in it yes there it is that's a photograph that Rupa took on the 19th morning of the 19th within within the stones that's one of our tour participants there you know it was it was an amazing morning well and of course not only that that being there but we had the enormous good fortune you mean I mean this was I I liken this to its protect we if we've been doing a tour of British theaters for example and we had ended the tour at the Royal Shakespeare Theatre in stratford-upon-avon and out of the blue rabbit out of a hat we were able to say and here to give you a nice talk about Shakespeare and the Shakespeare Theatre is in what's-his-name Ian McKellen we can I was going to say John Gielgud but he's not looking his best looking his best these days we were able to present we were able to surprise people with the presence of Professor Tim Darville mr. himself which was totally awesome to be in the stones with with that man thank you she's phenomenal in her in her side of archaeology as well but yeah to be at Stonehenge with Tim you know I won't tell a lie we were pretty chuffed about that that Tim actually thinks highly enough of us to get out of it at five o'clock in the motley crue you can see before you now [Laughter] what what Tim it's not just what he knows it's it's his ability to communicate it yes succinctly yeah is pretty damned impressive actually yeah it was a fabulous morning yeah you've pinched me you know pinch me can I share another lovely photograph going back a bit this is back to the recumbent this is coffee meal would your picture of us and all the tour members at coffee me or would that is a special sight you know that is a special sight I think if you if you're ever up in Aberdeen just seek coffee me or would it obviously it's not quite the way it was when the stones were built up and this is so often the case with so many of our ancient sites that they take on a personality and the character because woods may have been planted grown up around them the the the the environs give it a particular aesthetic that you know kicks off something for us now in this moment in the 21st century that doesn't wouldn't necessarily have been pertained a pretty stupid realization moment only very recently because well you know we've been to the recumbents we visited a few of them and and something that I was apologies there are some some of the recumbent stone circles so so okay so that picture of costume your wood so you've got the you've got the flanca stones then you want you all to step on course like up there it is yeah and so for those of you that don't know those were specifically constructed there only in apart from a couple of places in Ireland they are only found in Aberdeenshire it's at a latitude where when the moon is that it's at the peak of its cycle it's eighteen point six year cycle that the moon rolls across the altar stone it appears to it basically it skims the horizon it doesn't go below the horizon it's on it it just rolls along it and then it sets and these the recumbent stone circles were built so that the Moon appeared to roll across the altar stone now we've been to a number of them and you can stand at quite a few of them you can stand there and you can see how that stone aligns with the horizon and so you can see how the moon would appear to just roll along it and there were a few sites where clearly didn't it didn't sit on the horizon I was looking at these sites and thinking wow why did they not you know and I couldn't figure out why they'd built it this way and it was only sitting back home at my desk then I realized what a dumbass I was and that's it well just get down on your knees me get down on your knees there you are the altar aligns with the horizon or there's one of them was it son honey I think some honey goats know that you'd actually have to prostrate yourself Oh Tom Tom the very do you mean the first one we visited Tom Naberius a good example of having to get really low to appreciate I think Nathan would do Tom Newberry no you reckon yeah I think so but no I'm thinking of one that I'm not even sure that we actually put it in the film but it was one that you and I visited yeah I think some how many I think I yeah I think it was some honey where it's just so low and and so and I just I suppose it's because I'm such an irreligious sod the notion of getting getting down on my knees to worship anything as day can I interrupt with one of our guests please Toby spiral hello Toby Toby says hello from Rochester in Kent have you visited the Medway megaliths well yes we got some really great sites here ABB's lutely yes yes we have one two three of them and in the film most particularly the HSHS is probably the most impressive being you know what I mean well it's just it's another one of those things of just the nature of science you know the academics have this obsession with you know we can all hold our hands up to this but this obsession with categorizing things so that's you know so we'll call something the Midway to when or why are you calling a Midway - why are you calling that a long barrel and this you know I'm calling it the Cotswolds 17 or a seven constable - yes where it's not because they're in the Cotswolds or the other seven no you know we just have this kind of almost it's not arbitrary but it might as well be there's nomenclature that that somebody coined it whenever and and it just causes a confusion really and it's a bit like if you look at barrows or do you want to call it a cam but but if you look at and you know what I have a wonderful book which it's on the show someone Caroline Malone's book of near looking Britain brilliant book and Caroline puts in there is a whole list of of different types of Barrow there's Belle barrows and source of arrows and all the rest of it and I can't help looking at these things and this is nothing you know this is not Caroline's categorization she's showing you what the categories are and I can't help looking at these things and thinking but this is just gonna just well yes down the road here he just fancied making his one this shape you know so he told the village model no let's do a bit of that cuz that'd be quite nice here but it's the same thing and it serves the same function wherever it applies wherever it appears there's just tiny variance and no and we make that a thing and it shouldn't be a thing but Toby though mentioning the Midway - it's the Midway sites though brings up again a point that has come up for us on the tour and something we're investigating currently the cauldron we talked about cold room and cold room being one of the earliest megalithic sites if not the earliest recorded megalithic site in Britain it certainly has the earliest human remains yeah you know wherever else it could be remains to be seen yeah but if you if you want to get early if you want to get early in Neolithic or at the very very beginning of it will probably end of Meisel is it really in in Britain you go to a cold room you go to the Midway tombs before any stone circle building is done at all yeah before you know most of the long barrows and all that stuff yeah Medway Tunes earliest stuff when you know that and you visit him then knock your socks off yeah I mean it's so long before even the first stone so who was even imagined have you frozen no you think way again we put these things in a bucket you know these megalithic can't we you know we talked about megalithic culture and yet we're talking about the difference in time between now and the birth of the Roman Empire you know and that's what I'm talking about and we just put it all in one bucket it's madness yeah yeah so I'm just scanning back through through the comments and the word rogue Diana Toby that sounds great Toby smile says hi Tennessee [Music] Toby says that's the private one Vigo Oh Tennessee that's a private conversation between Donna and Toby about stuff in the states square barrows dick scratcher dick scratcher that's who he says he is this time you have frozen Rupert oh my lord you really have frozen you weren't pretending right oh no you haven't no you've woken yes yet dick scratcher says Karrimor island good point caramel well yes there were some very early dates for um for caramel but which are now disputed they are disputed on the other hand on the other hand we do that there are also problems with dating the Midway tombs as being v very earliest because you could argue that some stuff in Ireland and in Eastern Scotland could also be contemporary with or sort of have occurred at the same time this also is stuff we're really really anxious to investigate really get our heads around a timeline for the Neolithic to be able to bring it back to you and present it in the digestive forms I have to say it's you know incoming which I have declined it's it is enormously difficult to to to really put a handle on this it's something that's going to be easier with the advent of of better and better lab techniques but mentioning Kara more specifically now the dates from Kara more some of those went back nearly 10,000 years and now the thing is there's all sorts of possible anomalies that you could consider in there not least of all the fact that we continue to bury people you know in places that have been used for we don't know how long so we so you could have found burnt remains that were placed some long before the megalithic sites where actually isn't that the suggestion that those got mixed in that is the problem yes contamination through earlier excavations you know we we have in the last century we have become progressively you know I mean just increasingly rigorous in the way we do our excavations and it's just unavoidable really with some of the particularly you know earlier in the 20th century some of the expectations were to be fair pretty damn sloppy and so there's a lot of contention about about the accuracy of those dates but you know hopefully you know fingers crossed with with newer techniques now that there'll be a lot more clarity from the conjecture theory whatever you like to call it that we're following at the moment and this follows on really from our interview and talking to between the shores parson is that bein it the Neolithic as far as we know it kicked off in Brittany which is why cauldron is a really good candidate for being the earliest Neolithic structure in in Britain because I think that's where hmm megalithic you mean megalithic yeah structure in in Britain because that's where the influence came from straight across the straight across the channel from from Brittany but also there is what looks to have happen is that not only did they choose the short route but the the Breton's chose longer routes to attempt settle to attempt to settle in Britain mmm and roughly at the same time as well so that's the thing that needs to be picked apart that's any thing that yes to be examined and will really attempt to bring the hideous thing is that every time I start trying to work on mine it's almost as if it's fractal and it just it's tiring I can't analyze tiring okay but I absolutely get it is AB sitting but I think it's really giving us insights already you know I'm just I'm sure there are many people who have done time lines before in fact I know there are because there is a paper or papers not even if not even a book that examines this very very thing but have you read it dear listener I haven't yet Rupert hasn't and for understanding if we if we go and visit standing stones if it going visit stone circles if we go to the local Barrow or what-have-you or henge and we stand there looking a bit mystified feeling a bit mystified the only thing that is going to a really good stuff I would say the only thing a really good starting place to give it some context is going to be the timeline what came before this what came after this what were people up to before this what were they up to after this you know how does this relate to the site I visited last week was it it was a contemporary it occurs to me as to contemporary now but was it was it all kicking off at the same time then and that does that alter the way I think about it that's that that's the thing yeah and of course the other thing that you need to that you need to give space for is the possibility if not probability that in many cases the over the different periods of time that people say in the in the Bronze Age had the same mystified attitude to sites from the Neolithic as we do today looking at sites in the Bronze Age you know what were these things that their ancestors had put up you know and this notion of magic and mystery and what have you that as you you don't need a huge period of time to pass before you've lost the the the original purpose of a site and it is then just left to mythology and and I think we see that more and more really when you get a confusion in the timeline of you know this change of usage you know so take for example you know a Long Barrow where the burials are well when was the place built when were these burials you know it's just sometimes the discrepancy is so vast that you have to wonder you know is this just a long since there was one site we went to it was one of the recumbents I think it was Tom the very eventually where there's a medieval burial in the middle of it all it wasn't medieval burial in the middle of it I think you may be right yeah so they were you've got a Neolithic site of medieval burial in the middle of it 200 yards away in nuclear bunker years you know if somebody thought in in you know this medieval burial if somebody thought in there I don't know what year it was I don't remember but but you you can you can see what we're saying really that you know they obviously thought that this was a place of burial when well we know it was a place of it was a lunar calendar there's certainly no signs of burial apart from that but these people thought that it was a place of burial in you know in the Middle Ages so that kind of illustrates the point really that we we give things the meaning that that we want don't we really in one way or another yeah dick scratcher says nice early Neolithic structure in Torquay broad sons car park very early date has it got a name dick I'm sure that's not a real name if so considerations maybe a Long Barrow he says question and this will have to be the last one I think but good questions yes indeed overly goofy dad says asks while the Celts and druids weren't contemporary with the building of the sites what is known of their attitudes towards and all use of Neolithic sites we've kind of sort of you kind of sort of gone there haven't we really is that it's as well we are not dealing with any history not all nothing written down there's no way of knowing that you know so people say anything [Music] it's the only thing you can say really you know that the fact that the the modern druids the only reason I'm sorry I get boring but the only reason that the modern druids talk about you know druid culture in megalithic science is because of Williams Duke Lee yeah and John Aubrey because you know going back to the 17th century 18th century that that basically religions still held sway the church was the fount of all wisdom and what the church told you was that God made the earth few thousand years ago and the earliest people that we knew about in Britain worth druids it was like like the Romans thanks to the Rome and and so as far as they were concerned these places can only have been built by the Druids because there was nobody before them so so today you know in fact our whole attitude to stone circles and any megalithic site as places of spiritual activity lasting okay might not be wrong but the only reason we actually cling to that is because Williams nucleon John Aubrey the other way around John Aubrey first they kicked it off saying these were Jewish temples and that's the only reason we cling to it today strictly himself was a man of the cloth yes he was yeah yeah who coined the name for himself earth Archdruid kinder necks but I think he did I think I'd be very interesting to meet him yes because I don't think I mean he was a vicar he was named looking there's a good vicar of Stanford Sumeria Stanford you've been ya know stokeley news duty wasn't vicar in very much he was being it was visiting other places he drew some good pictures the Stanford is about as far away from anything magnificus you can get in Britain well well at least how much time you actually spent in some Mary's yeah Stanford no he knows all those drawings and I tell you what III have a strong suspicion that he had an ego the size of the planet and he would be utterly thrilled that we're still talking about and where we probably if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be talking about these things today anyway as my in my role as as corralling time is that gonna make you love her rolling term you can do it yeah yes I I became conscious of this new persona being to earlier on in charge of many cats going off in different directions Rupert will tell you I just I might gets into a zone when Mike gets into that zone I just you know what not yourself am i corral this broadcast you know otherwise we'd still be doing it at four o'clock in the morning yeah very similar so having said that we're nearly upon the 90 minutes mark yes so so we also and let you get on with your lives and hats off to folk that have stayed with us and have been watching us oh by the way on the screen notice anything different just a clue I have to say one thing that tooth it is another thing that has come out you know from the past few weeks I'd say you know and the contacts that would be making I get we get the feeling that what we are up to Rupa is going to shift up a gear very soon it is it's just you know without aggrandize in ourselves we're beginning to be taken a bit more seriously and profile is becoming useful and we're able to talk to some serious people now and whenever we talk hopefully bring you serious frontline stuff how that evolved how that will appear over the coming months not quite sure but yeah the the this channel if you like or this partnership you know will take on a slightly different occurrence to you out there in the world I hope over the next next few months yes it's just it's all good yes yes and this is really cryptic we'll get there by degrees we'll get there yet X is cheers Rupert Poland yeah amber and on it she says your logo well with that I think we should wrap up Rupert I think we should is there anything else I can share I'll just old oh look I'm just saying this is Rupert and Rick this is the guy that runs the archaeology Channel in with Rupert in the dirty duck at stratford-upon-avon wearing the standing stones hats he wears it very well yes that's on the balcony the dirty duck on Riverside you know with the alien just behind you can see the Willows looking at the back of my head or is that if no no no no it's you smiling a trick is a completely different photograph not here like some white one you're thinking of ya know it's got pint in front of us every picture tells a story yeah yes what's this one Oh Tim da ville' signing signing books signing his book I'm in the middle of the Stonehenge cursus oh is that that's not did I send you no oh is that one that you'll notice one I took on my own because and I thought I am saving what the pictures I did Rick and Mary and just show folks you see Mike and I even haven't even had time to show each other the photographs that we brought home so oh that was something being in the middle of the Stonehenge curse wasn't it it was this is more of curses diseases an arm and yes because that's just another hot potato oh that that I'm showing now is a photograph of the entire group on the very first night we met in the air hotel hence Rick is not there cuz I've got to share right now yes so watch this space we'll get our act together a bit better as time goes on random should we say I think we've been a bit random poppin over in there so thank you for bearing with us thank you for your patience thank you for your understanding and those of you stay with us for this 90 minutes well Wow well done that's off to you stamina yes well all best to all of you and hopefully see you next time yeah all right folks that's it for now Tara bye bye take care see ya bye
