Reconnecting to nature through sound with Michel André

we know that uh now we have the data we have the knowledge syia doesn't stop to to say this now we have a knowledge that we didn't have in in the past so we not we need to use this knowledge fast we know that again this is a aace this is not something that we are making up and then talking to to talk this is really something that is serious it it is truly a race but we have the technology we have the knowledge and we have to uh apply it uh to uh to to to make a change and we we can do it I'm Adam vaugh the environment editor for the times and it's my pleasure today to be joined by Michelle Andre who is speaking to us today near Barcelona Michelle hi um thanks for joining um do you want to introduce yourself first of all who who are you hello Adam my name is Michelle Andre I am a professor at the Technical University of Catalonia in Barcelona and the director of the laboratory of Applied bio Acoustics bio Acoustics Okay so in Academia what how would you sort of summarize the work you're doing there at the University and maybe for those of us don't know what bioacoustics is could you give us a brief layers explainer yes bio Acoustics is the science of the sound of Life uh these studies uh how animals produce perceive sounds how anything can alter these uh exchange of information so this can go to interaction with human activity but although we also speak about natural events and uh actually if you think of the perception of sound as one of the probably only sense that we know of that we share all uh living creature on Earth being animal plant aquatic or terrestrial the perception sound is probably the only one that we share and this gives us this dimension of having the need of studying these sounds to understand the status of conservation of the planet got you so I think if and tell me if this is completely something different but during covid one of the things that interested me as a as a journalist was there was a few studies scientist sort of used it as a kind of giant lab experiment so for example on sound with birds I think there was a few papers published showing that birds could were able to in some places sing at a slightly um lower pitch than they were normally because they were normally having to go higher to avoid the I think I for the right way around I think they were normally they're having to go higher to avoid the kind of low rumbling noises of car engines and human activities is that the sort of thing we're talking about yes well I mean this is a particular situation with covid because the uh human activity was U stopped or not totally stopped but at least slowed down a lot and we were not only be able to register and capture and see differences with different uh production of sound but of course we were paying us we were paying more attention to these natural sounds and I think this is what is happening really this is we are not paying attention to um to uh to the sounds around us because we are busy with uh all the matters of the sounds men Man produ sound but if we would stop and try to listen to Natural sounds biological sound then we would perceive what we perceived during the co lockdown got you and can I just ask the sort of Devil's Advocate question of why why why should I why should people care about listening to the noises that Wildlife make well I don't think that we were we are particular L willing to to uh to listen to this noise it is something that is uh inherent of our life when we live in in a big city this is something that we take as a part of our life and probably we don't pay attention to it I mean we don't want to pay attention to this noise we don't like it but this is part of our uh soundscape around us and uh and we we tend to to avoid to to think of it and so our brain is not enough to just say okay well I'll put this uh noise in the back of my of my head I know this is there but this of course masks uh and overlaps with natural sounds and bical sounds so we we sort of take the soundscape out of our uh surrounding and then we we just ignore it yeah I get you that makes sense but in terms of like the importance of you know what is why does say listening to a certain bird song or or another noise uh why does that matter in terms of conservation and what we can do to protect the natural world well this is a very interesting question if you think of uh the time the moment when we start to disconnect from nature uh probably many people would say well this is when we started to uh use industrial means to uh to exploit nature in the planet which can be maybe a century ago but I personally think that this is coming much earlier in our history I think this comes when we started to articulate our own language this is the time and we are speaking of 150 th000 years ago when we started to articulate our own language we stopped listening to Nature at that time we were part of nature today we know that we say man and nature as we were not part of it and this disconnection which of course took time to uh to set um is the is the moment when we articulated our language because we were not paying attention to the Natural neological messages that nature was sending us today we are probably the only creature on on Earth that doesn't understand the message from all the other creatures being again aquatic or terrestrial they have this capacity to understand the messages from nature and to listen to it so it's vital for us to come back to this listening uh that was natural for us I'm not saying that we we need to to stop speaking of course uh but we need to pay attention to Nature and listening to it so we can reconnect to it I was going to say I'll be out of a job for starters but I'm fascinated by the idea that this hugely useful tool is sort of in your mind key to to our disconnect with nature that's really interesting I've not heard someone articulate that before and it could just to sort of bring it down to the you know the tangible level what you said you know these messages from nature can you give some examples of the sort of sounds the sort of messages that you're talking about just maybe give a few examples yes if you if you consider and if you accept these sort of idea hypothesis um that there is a way uh of communication uh that is shared by all uh creatures on on on earth that is that go through the perception of sound then uh you understand that we are speaking not only the sounds that are produced by animals and that are perceived and heard by other creature including plants but also the wind uh in the in in the tree of the wave provides information this provides a a whole set package of information that depending on the evolution of the species uh the uh the message goes goes through and uh we have uh different example that been that proven say in the ocean when when you have uh species like dolphins that coordinate movement with whales that don't have at all the same repertoire they don't have at all the same sound they produce sounds and they are able to coordinate their movements to a hunt to uh to look for fish and we see also this with primates and uh birds and this is common to see this inter species coordination producing sound that apparently and physically they are not the same at all uh amongst these these different species but they coordinate the movement so they understand each other and to us if you think of what could be the information content uh that allows them to uh uh under understand each each other where they communicate you would you would think of something that is maybe another part that maybe not many people have thought of but a sound when is produced by an animal needs to reach a Target being a mate being uh a Target uh so they they need to reach this this Target and for a for a bird he needs to cross sometime the forest for a whale he has to cross the ocean but the only purpose of the sound is to reach the the the Target and this sound gets distorted along the way uh this is a physical process uh it's absorbed by trees by waves Etc but the the objective is to have this sound reaching the Target and when you look at the component that never changes no matter the distance from the emissor to the receptor is the time interval between the sounds we are speaking about The Silence in between the sounds and we look at this not not now at the signal at the sound itself but at the series of time of Silence you detect a rhythmic Dimension that is probably the key to understand that it exists a universal communication system that go through the rhythm of these intervals of time that that is contained in silence that's very interesting um I'm kind of constantly fascinated as well to how researchers kind of are using sound to you know assess the health of ecosystems I went on a boat off the south coast of England a couple of years ago where um people were monitoring kelp kelp forests you know the um plants yes and they were trying they were using um hydrophones there to try and use that as a try and use the noise they were getting as a sort of proxy of the health of the seabed I must be honest with you it seemed a little bit woo woo to me but uh I'm sure there was something in it um can you just talk a little bit more broadly about you know you mentioned Wales there and obviously that's uh you know we hunted them pretty much to Extinction for their oil and other products and then in the 1980s we decided to do something about that and there's some recovery going on there but because of the you know reproduction Cycles it takes a long time right what what would how would you maybe that's the example you want to talk about but maybe another one how would you say human development has affected uh wildlife and its ability to communicate through sound over time well it's obvious that uh since hunting stopped not not everywhere we know that but um the the most important part of it stopped uh around 20 or 30 years ago this has left uh the door open for these Wells of course to reproduce and to re re populate some some some areas we don't have enough data to uh to know exactly to what extent but this this threat that was um a massive one has been replaced by others and particularly noise pollution noise pollution is this pollution that comes from human activity that is not something that was present in the oceans U for all the human um um the human history so we created and introduced massively these uh sources of noise pollution in the ocean around 80 years ago when we didn't know not only that the ocean was not silent uh when we speak about a silent ocean we speak about a dead ocean so the ocean has never been silent he has always been filled with natural sounds coming from wave earthquakes Etc and with biological sounds and this has always been in the water and this is the way all the inhabitant of the ocean live and the survival of the ocean goes through the sounds that it produces the problem is that as human beings we don't have this capacity to hear underwater we we can perceive a few uh parameters of the Sun but is very faint and we over thought that the the ocean was silent and uh as as as I was saying this is all the contrary and then this uh this richness of and this diversity of sounds that makes the ocean alive has been affected for the last 8 years uh with this menman noise that again for 80 years we had no idea that this sound could even be uh affecting uh wild wildlife and could kill our life and noise pollution kills wildlife and uh we are speaking about not only Wells Dolphins but also invertebr fish and plants so there is nothing in the ocean that is preserved from this human activity sound we speaking about of course shipping we are speaking about oil and gas uh operation uh windmill uh construction and operation all these activity see produce sound and this is affecting badly uh the communication capability not only of the whales but of the whole web uh of the got you so primarily talking about energy and transport in in the oceans as the sources of the noise I think also there's like some weird outlier examples as well that I've reported on not a million miles from you off the Portuguese coast of sailors playing heavy metal music into the water to try and put off orcas you probably heard about the yes I mean it's you know I I find that bizarre it's their home but you know maybe that maybe we won't get into that um let's um let's go back to a bit in time and talk about you a bit um in terms of your childhood where did your sort of love for all this come from where did your interest in wildlife and science come from well as probably many mini kids uh I loved animal uh when when I was a kid I wanted to be a vet this something that you know when the typical question what what do you want to do when you are a a grun up I was saying I would like to be a vet and this is what I was telling and I was convinced because I wanted to take care of of of the animals and then at a certain time I was around 11 to 12 I don't remember this event my parents told me that I came to them and said well I don't want to be a vet anymore I want to study dolphin communication I said okay fine why not but it so so I I had probably seen some some something on TV because it was I was not living close to the ocean I was not at all so it must be something that I I've i' seen on TV and this is what I pursued and uh I I really wanted to understand Communication in these fascinating creatures and I study to try to find a way to get closer to it and this is how this brought me uh to understand better uh the challenges that these fishes and others uh face uh in the ocean and try to find a way to uh uh not only understand this effect of noise pollution we're speaking of but also to try solution to uh to mitigate them and this also took me to take this technology out of the water and bring into the Amazon forest where there are other um uh challenges got you I think you and I are probably quite unusual because you know I think of my daughters and there you know teenagers still working out what they want to do in later life you you obviously quite early decided what you want to do I quite early decided I wanted to be a journalist what was it what was it that interested you in the dolphin communication what was it as a kid that got you excited well again I mean this of course I I thought of it at this very moment I cannot tell you but of course later when when I understood a little bit better uh what I wanted to do what what really fascinates me and still now is that how these creatures that came from Land entering this new dimension that didn't have any idea of and we are speaking about 50 million years ago they adapted to these U totally uh extraterrestrial uh Dimension and managed to produce sounds to communicate uh with the brain that probably has evolved only for that function or not only but most of it is to communicate and to understand and and what is also um um very uh interesting when when you think of it is that our imagination is not uh enough to think of what they do with sounds we we take an an example of the sperm well the sperm well is the most ancient citation uh that lives in on on Earth it has been uh with the same uh Anatomy 35 million years ago and he has the largest bra brain that the the Earth has ever seen and this brain is evolving around the perception and production of sounds can you imagine this huge brain for 35 million years dealing with sound we cannot even imagine what what they can do with s can I mean we are we are too too short in thinking of what they can do so the the only thing that we can do is to record and try to understand the mechanism behind him with the very far dream of one one day maybe understanding a little bit better the information that they exchange but this is a fascinating uh process and this is why after all all this year I continue being uh uh yeah fascinated by Under Water communication I'm I'm I'm now fascinated about sperm wh brains as well I want to know I could I could Le we could just do the whole podcast on that um I'll come we're probably going to come back to that in a second but just just when what was the sort of point along the line where you first sort of that thought about um Wales and dolphin communication what was the first sort of point where you started thinking about how human noise affects um animals yes so this was not a good um something that came early uh I was in the Canary Islands uh early '90s there was an issue uh with sperm Wells and and fairies uh collisions uh the sperms were dying and some of the passengers got uh uh I mean died in one of those in those in those collisions and the company the maritime company decided to put some money to try to understand if this accident was something that could occur again or it was just one one one time and uh dealing with acoustic we started to make a sort of sensus uh to know where the whales uh where why they they were there and then when we are trying to get the own signals we can them click the they produce these signals this large Brain this is the most advanced computer you can imagine the sound that this animal produces is the loud dust on Earth that we can even think of and for for years human couldn't match or emulate the same intensity of sound even with a big uh a big machine so this is the brain this animal producing this click on this and uh this signal was masked by some of the shipping noise that was um ground and this was uh preventing me and and my team to extract the Vital Information to uh know where the Ws were and how they were behaving and so this is very naturally that we started to think of well maybe the same um effect that that prevent us to really extract information from the Sun can also affect these whales and then we looked at this their their ears to see if they are lost some sensitivity to to this HP noise when they were stranding and and they were dead of course and this is how these all these um issue of noise pollution started uh in my own life but also around the the world so you worked out where the Wales were you got a bit of a sense of how they were communicating what was the outcome how did you did you manage to work out how to stop them colliding with the fairies or stop the fairies colliding with them yeah so at the start when we wanted to stop this we we thought as uh we usually do do on on land is to have a deterrent signal so we will Tau sorry teach the whales to say okay where the the fairy the ship is arriving please let him uh go through uh and and we made a lot of experiment playing back many many sounds and found out that the whales uh very soon were ignoring this uh this sound this deteran sound and they were continuing what for them is vital is the search of food and even though the sound that we're playing was very intense and very uh uh hard to uh to uh to stand the were ignoring it and so we uh thought okay well we're not going to use this we are going to uh introduce more and more noise pollution in in in the water which is overloaded already with too many uh too too too many noises so we're going to turn this the problem around and because these Wells produce 80% of of the time this this click the signals we're going to listen to the signal we're going to locate the signals and we can alert the captains of the Pres well so they can timely change the course of their um ship and then to prevent the Collision so you you you you listened rather than talked to them basically exactly exactly got you really interesting and sorry this the um the click can we say how loud it is like can you say how loud that is in decibel I have no idea how imagine it's really loud so before I I say that it is important not to make immediate uh translation to to the level in in air the decibel is is not an absolute uh it's it's always medium exactly so so for for the whales it's 230 DB uh which is I mean the loudest particularly of the sound that we can hear on water it's not that how that's not how it would sound to us but that it's the equivalent of Road Works underwater sort of well it's not correct what what I'm going to say but if we have to to compare I feel like I'm really dumbing down the science here yes so if we are to to compare and to have an idea there will be around 60 DB on land wow wow okay so is really loud it is really loud okay um okay right um and and just thinking back to that time so you know it's just even you saying about fairies in the Canary Islands you know and thinking of how probably a lot of those have been replaced by flights and now um just thinking back to that time I mean were is it fair to say people were less concerned about noise pollution and marine life full stop I mean is that was that the case and why do you think that was well I mean noise noise pollution and even 30 years ago I mean Sly 30 years later which which now at the moment you you ask people U is there any noise in the ocean do you know this and is it affecting life marine life probably most of people say I have no idea this is something that is not um u i mean common to think of again because we don't have the capability to hear without specialized equipment uh but yes but on on the on on on the U on the other hand when you uh think of a world that strs Dophin this is something that always impacts uh uh people and they don't want that they they feel very sad to think that these creatures uh is is dying and probably for some reason that is linked to our own activities so they are very conscious uh that uh there is a issue with our activity when you speak about noise pollution they have a very high time to make the the connection between these events and the fact that we are introducing this noise in the ocean got you okay and and just casting your mind back your your early work with the um sperm Wells I think that led you to develop this um project called um listen to the deep ocean environment or Lio um can you just tell a bit more about that what what was that yeah so the uh father or the mother of of this International lead of initiative came from the canarians where where we had to deal with real time data the the ship needed to know at the right time where the well was so they could prevent this Collision so this was the first time that with underwater acoustic we needed to to work uh with a system that was operating in real time and automatically and this we were concentrating on the sperm clicks and ignoring the other noises and the other noises were for us noise and we're extracting them away from our um from the analysis then we had this opportunity to get into an EU funded uh initiative that's called Eon net European seafloor Observatory network of Excellence uh that was dealing with Geo gads and the detection of of tsunami and we were asked to look at uh the possible effect of Noise Within the structure that they were they were put on the on the bottom of the ocean 3,000 met depth uh and and then we said okay well now we are facing uh a different um uh different case we we're not only concentrating on one species uh we need to know where every other species are and uh and also the different noises produced by humans so we we buil up uh an architecture uh that was allowing us to identify in real time automatically and this is there was the start of the AI techniques that now are well known and so that allows us to take this this huge amount of data 24/7 through our servers and uh identifying the different sources that were produced at the time got you and we've been talking we started talking there about the canaries where else are you sort of listening to the natural world what other sort of parts of the world and which other sort of habitats so today the Leo Network includes over 150 observatories around the world is in most of the oceans uh we have data from uh Antarctica and the Arctic we don't have yet permanent station this is something that is badly needed because we know that the Ice is cting very fast in in that uh in in these um um areas and we we lack of basic data to understand biodiversity we know that there will be species coming closer and closer because the water gets warmer and there will be competition for food for space and we need this Baseline data to be able to uh to uh build this Corridor uh for for the species so when the ice is totally met they can still live there so the um the uh stations that that that that we have are all over the world uh except as a permanent uh stations except in these two parts of of of the planet got you and so this sort of Earth listing system you know I think you've referred in the past as this being kind of checking the pulse of the biosphere there I mean what what does what do you mean by that yeah so if we go back to the to the idea that sounds is really the the way for all creatures on Earth to exchange information that is vital for the survival then if we're able to capture these uh information with a standard way that uh that doesn't have to to deal with Marine um area or terral area we are speaking about noise and sound as a whole all over the planet we truly have a way and a tool to take the Pulse of nature exactly as a as a doctor as Doctor does and know exactly where and when there is a need to uh act uh because this area specifically is lacking of biodiversity or as a threat that is threatening this bity got you I mean this the SE ice one's really interesting because I think you can as well as obviously scientists are monitoring that from space with you know Satellites with radar and Laser but I think you can understand quite a lot about the ice as well from the south of it can't you I think is that right yes absolutely yes yeah and and and and in terms of these listening experim these listening sort of monitoring Network what what kit do you use what you know how does it work in Practical terms yes so the equipment and I'm speaking about the water but we as we said we took this equipment out of the water and it's now inas long R Rainforest in Africa in Asia to monitor uh wildlife and Bo diversity in the rainforest so this this this goes through a basically trying to emulate our own capacity we need an an ear which is an artificial ear it's a it's a device that capture the sound uh it is a microphone when it's on on land it is a hydrophone which is when when it is uh underwat so this is an artificial ear that captures the sound and then takes it to an artificial brain that is able to process the data uh to process data meaning that extracting the components of each of the sound and we can say we can find maybe 30 features for each of the sounds that we capture that characterize a specific sound and this is the signature of the sound so we have this database that capture collect and store this data and whenever we have what we call an acoustic event that comes through this artificial ear to the artificial brain then we look at the similarity with database looking for these component these features and we say okay yes we have an 80% of chance that the sound that we just captured belongs to the class so to the species that have produced the sound a bird a whale a primate Etc and then this is done uh very fast it takes us a few uh uh micros seconds to do that so we are very close to the real time and we are able to identify each of the sound and to recompose what we call the soundscape and the soundscape is what tells you the status of health of the of the area changes of the soundscape we tell you there is an invasive species tell you if there is a human activity that is changing the configuration tells you if there is a tree that is cut or climate change so this is really the way to take the Pulse of nature through this equipment ah and I have have to say that once we have these brain so this is that takes us a little bit differently from what H do we are able to transmit this data life to the Internet so this is something that human still uh do do not know how how how to do but we do it of course with the technology so this goes through satellite information and we get in our servers immediately this information so we clict the sound we process it and we transmit it in in real time got you and you mentioned um AI briefly earlier on and um uh I you know I think I've read a few bit few papers and studies talking about machine learning and how you you mentioned earlier on how one day we might even be able to understand how sperm Wes are talking um and I think I've seen a I think there was something I saw on Apple TV where it was like in the it was in 2050 and they' worked out how to basically AI had learned out how worked at how to for us to understand what Wales was saying I mean I'm I suppose not L less interested in that but more how's the technology involved over time you know is that is that playing a key role for you well the technology definitely has played and is playing a key role not only because it allows us to listen in areas that we cannot uh underwater of course this is one of them but also because it allows us to perceive sounds that our ear is not able to perceive we know that our window uh our our uh our hearing window is very is very narrow and we have many species that produce sound uh in another range just remind people how narrow is just remind people how narrow is Michelle like what actual frequencies can we hear yes when when we are born is between 20 htz and 20,000 Hertz when when you grab this this window gets gets a little bit errow and uh but this is our way to perceive sounds and then we have these what we call ultrasounds that goes above this 20 khz the 20,000 Herz and we have the infrasound that's go below the 20 HZ many whales produce infra infrasound all the species on on Earth to elephants as as an example and then many species produce sound in the ultrasound range of of of the human being being bats being again uh species underwater Etc so this technology allows us to perceive the whole uh range C frequency being Audible for humans or not and uh but but not only this it it allows us to process the data and uh 10 10 years ago we're not able to process the huge amount of of data I can imagine that we have these 150 observatories around the world that stream 247 the data to our server this is a huge amount of of data and this is strength to this AI technique that we are able to uh process the data and again to to go through all these identification of the different classes go here I don't I will move on but I'm I'm such a technify that it really interests me I mean in just in a sort of thought experiment you know we're all a bit obsessed with large language models at the moment is there a kind of future where like you know animals could basically be talking to chatbots is there some weird future where that could be a thing well uh of course this will uh produce some uh some help but it depends how we want to use this uh AI I mean is is a Tak wherever we want and particularly if we want to understand the way other species communicate I would probably leave uh uh behind the way we communicate and uh this this way of thinking that if there is any way animals can communicate is exactly the same way we communicate I think it's a mistake because we are the only species on Earth that uses the language that we use and and and we know exactly when he started and why we are now we are only speaking about 150,000 years said that where all the species of animala prod sound for millions of here in areas and medium and environments that have nothing to do with uh with ours and before we could speak as we do now or through a cell phone we were only meant to speak a few meters apart so it was really something that has a purpose to exchange information at the very short distance all the species need to communicate hundred of kilometers away in a different scale of uh space and and time and to me orientating AI to try to match our our language and teach or understand other species uh communication through uh the the comparison with ours will not take us or is taking us far from what I consider the reality yeah I got you okay that makes a lot of sense um and just in ter of practical terms this monitoring Network how does it you know it's obviously interesting from an academic point of view but does it actually offer any sort of information that can be acted on for conservation I wonder if there I wonder maybe there's a couple of examples perhaps yeah so this the idea of course is is the initial idea that continues is to understand this interaction between artificial noises and these biological noises and how we can cohabitate this is the most important to me is that if we don't uh understand the role of these sounds and how the interaction with uh artificial sounds uh takes place then we we won't have a way to cabit with nature which is our Vital move now we need really to understand as quick as we can how to cohabitate with nature because otherwise we will not be able to survive on the planet so uh listening to this sound understanding this interaction is is a vital uh aspect but then if we take it to a practical way uh this is uh Al also of use to to regulate uh the introduction of some noises in the environment particularly in in the ocean and all this data that is collected and analyzed takes also Place into this uh effort to provide uh a COR regulation that limits or to uh try to mitigate this effect and particularly uh in the EU we have this uh uh Marine strategy framework directive that is for the first time listing indicators of the good environmental status of the ocean and one of these indicator is noise and uh this is asking the members the member states to take measure to measure the noise on on the cost and if this goes over a certain threshold to take measures to limit it and to and to reduce it all this information has a purpose of not only understanding but also to regulate uh these effects got you and you mentioned the EU there the example um I mean did I wondered in terms of is there any other parts of the world where you've sort of Applied your system that you you know you'd single out I think you've done some work in India I don't know where else would you sort of point to yes so the same technology can be applied on the long term to understand as we said uh the conversation the conservation status of of an area but also of a species and practically in India uh there is the issue of collisions between elephant and train that I started many years ago and the the the elephant that that see that their jungle crossed by these Railways need to cross the railways to get food or to drink and this this Collision are common and these trains in India they are very big and they don't even move when they hit aant the elepant dies uh often with I mean awful pain because you know edian they the bones are fractures and they stay for for weeks and this is something that has made the elephants to be aggressive against humans and they kill uh over 100 over 500 people per year when they attack these uh human or The Villages they enter them to attack them so there is an issue not only of the conservation of the specific wild elephant but also because they have this aggressive reaction to a human and the same system as we used for the sperm well uh in the ocean is is is being tested so it it allows to extract the information from the um um um elephant the sound they produce when they eat when they communicate when they walk and we isolate this from the rest of the sound from the soundscape and transmit this information to the driver uh that can uh uh uh slow slow down when he knows that there is an elephant that is crossing a few uh hundreds of meter from where he is and then leave it acrossing the area so this is very applied the same technology can be really applied to a to a specific case so these these elephant sounds we're not just thinking of the Disney style sort of cor with the trunk it's lot it's all the other sounds as well you were saying yes totally yes yeah got you okay um and I mean if you I imagine it's not always been plain sailing over the years you know getting these hydrophones and microphones in the right places I'm sure not everyone's wild as well as excited about it as you are you do you want to just talk about some of the challenges you faced over the years whether it's it's you know social or technological or you know the animals themselves causing problems yeah so it's it's it's a large range so uh first first I mean when when we concentrated for the first 20 years we're speaking over the last 30 years now but the first 20 years we concentrated on um um um oceans it was exclusively concentrating on biodiversity uh and and well conservation R Fish and plants and uh at that time when when we were speaking about noise pollution no one was listening there was something that no one would even think of as as we mentioned and it took a long time to provide evidence of it and now the scientific community of course we're not the the the only ones to deal with with these issues so we have all other the colleagues not not so many unfortunately but uh we are a group of U of researchers who deal with with this issue and and now Society is is is a little bit becoming a little bit more aware of the situation but then of course you have this issue of uh the the technology 20 years ago 30 years ago we didn't have the same access now it's going very fast so this allows us not only to have be given this new sense being able to listen in area where our own capacity was uh preventing us to to listening but also to be to have this this ubiquity capability to put our sensors everywhere and to be able to monitor in in real time any part of of of of of of the world at the same time so this is technology that brought us there and then we also faced the challenge of convincing um uh stakeholders to help us to fund these uh uh um um initiatives because this technology is not cheap it's not very expensive it's not cheap and then we need to go to remote places and maybe this take us with a nice breaker or with an helicopter and then we need this these funding so it's it's it's the same part I mean we not the only uh people on Earth saying that we need help but yes so there are these yeah CH challenges that that we face and and still face of course that's a good message um and just in terms of you what's it meant to you to be a Laurette of the Rolex awards for Enterprise since I think 2002 2002 well beside say that the yeah is uh it's a true uh it's a true uh uh achievement in my in my lifetime it's a true honor it has changed my my whole life uh uh on the professional level but also on a personal level because I moved from places to places and this I had to bring my my wife and my kids with with with with me and this of course as had this personal effect but the professional one it came at the time when noise pollution in in the ocean was not even known and the uh media coverage that the U D rewards provide has put the uh light some some light on on these sounds and uh help me but not only me helped the whole community of of scientists who work in in that field to be heard and uh this this has come really to to the right moment 2002 uh we had this uh stranding Network after some Navy Maneuvers and this was the really the moment to uh to speak of it and this are uh uh um um also take me uh to uh to create this laboratory where we are now uh 20 20 years ago and it will probably not have seen the Delight without the u um um this U um help and this contribution to to my research looking ahead to the Future Michelle how do you see your work evolving you know you talk we've talked about tech you've talked about people you talked about how some parts of the world sort of start to get legislation to take into effect into to account noise pollution what what's the future for you well the future I mean is the present now so it's continuing to develop and to expand this network KB I mentioned the Artic and contara this is this is fundamental we need to put their permanent stations otherwise we'll be too late of course the we have this bunch of uh of sensor all over the world but there are not enough we need to put more uh because there is this true uh race uh to understand better so this is something that that that is needed we are in this project uh in the Amazon and the aim is to cover the whole C Forest uh with these sensors the to be able to monitor for the first time the status of health of the Amazon and understand the challenges that has and this is something thing that we aim at doing uh by 2030 uh so we still have a few years to do and then this is really one of these big objectives and then taking this in a parall way uh we are starting to look at what is going on in space in terms of sounds uh we know that sounds cannot uh move in in space but we can capture some some light and translate it into sound and if we listen uh to Nature and and and if you understand that maybe there is a Ric pattern that is global on Earth We're not thinking that is saw something in the Galaxy that also is uh is taking place so we have the tool for that we just TR now to to get some data out out of it to to to get IDE love it so so I've asked you what the future is You' basically said the universe brilliant uh also on I mean I do think it's really interesting those two um places you're focusing on there Antarctica and the Amazon the the former you know partly because it's been relatively immune to sort of because of winds and other factors have been relative immune to a warming world but there seems to been some sort of flip since about 2017 onwards and obviously with the amaz in the deforestation has come down a bit but it's still obviously unsustainable the rates really interesting and and for people listening thinking I love what Michelle's doing how can I support him what what would you suggest is a good starting Place well we have a a foundation that's called the sense of Silence foundation and now we we know why we we call it the sense of Silence because of this uh uh vital uh information that is uh that is in in the silence um and the foundation allows donors to to help us uh with with our studies but also so I mean this is something that anybody can do is to reconnect to Nature and and to listen to Nature and this is something that is vital because if we understand and if we do that then then it will become so so obious in our life then everything can can really change so besides this help with the funding I think that everyone can really make a difference if we start to listen to Nature got you great okay so get out there and start listening basically okay thank you um and just a big question to finish off on Michelle uh are you hopeful for the future of our natural world I I I I am otherwise we would stop so I mean I am very up um um um upful we know that uh now we have the data we have the knowledge syia doesn't stop to to say this now we have a knowledge that we didn't have in in the past so we not we need to use this knowledge fast we know that again this is a aace this is not something that we are picking up and then talking to to talk this is really something that is serious it is truly a race but we have the technology we have the knowledge and we have to apply it uh to uh to to to make a change and and we we we we can do it great that's I'm I'm always for finishing on a week can do it bit of agency message okay well look I've really really enjoyed talking with you Michelle could have like chatt to you for now about sperm Wells but um thank you ever so much for coming on thank you Adam are also was very pleased to talk to you

Channel: Times Radio

Views: 467

Keywords: timesradio, climate change, environment, climate, nature, climate science, climate crisis, climate change conference 2021, global warming and climate change, what causes climate change, what is climate change, nature op, environment canada, climate change explained, climate change for kids, look after the environment, climate change short film, looking after the environment, environmental, climate education, climate emergency, learn to look after the environment, planet hope

Id: SJbxV_UGX9w

Length: 47min 15sec (2835 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 13 2024