Rebellion Against Wokeism and the Vaccine Push with Peter Boghossian, Janice Dean, and Adam Carolla

welcome to the megan kelly show your home for open honest and provocative conversations hey everyone i'm megan kelly welcome to the megyn kelly show so excited to be back with you on this monday there's so much to go over today we are tackling one of the most asked questions i receive from listeners and fans which is how to fight back against woke leftists in education if you have a kid going off to college you are a kid in college i just spent the weekend with a bunch of them uh you know exactly what the problem is or if you pay any attention in the news at all and my guest today is a professor who has been in the midst of it for a long time he's been teaching for over 25 years taking on the regressive left is not new to him he's been doing it in portland by the way portland oregon and trying to teach his students to stand up against it as well he's fighting against indoctrination how do you like that for a change but last week peter bogosian a professor at portland state university quit and boy does he have some stories to tell about why and how he got to the point where he didn't think he could go on another day at that university good for him but it also leaves um our students out there right now with professors like jen m jackson of syracuse university my own university that's where i went jen tweeted september 11th was nothing more than end quote attack on the systems many white americans fight to protect yes okay the hetero heteropatriarchal systems osama bin laden was all about header protecting uh patriarchy uh over at princeton meantime several of the school's own alumni and current professors are outraged today after learning that an orientation video for new students it's like welcome to princeton so happy you made it in one of the best universities in the world no no that's not what it says at all it encourages the students to tear down this university the very school the students fought so hard to attend probably gave up all of their fun in high school to attend uh and describes free speech as a privilege and not a right and encourages students to exercise that privilege so long as they do it to advance social justice causes this is america's universities right now um it's upsetting i think it's disgusting and a lot of people are asking as they get ready to fork over a hundred thousand dollars a year to send their kids to these schools and by the way even if you don't have a kid it's your problem because these kids graduate from these schools and then take over cultural institutions in america is there any stopping this madness well peter bogosian joins me now peter so so good to talk to you thank you so much for being here today thanks megan it's great to be here well congratulations on your decision uh i know it it couldn't have been easy it took a lot of courage it happened on september 8th how are you feeling about it now on september 13th phenomenal i i have the very unusual problem i've never had it before i wake up in the middle of my sleep from pure happiness at least you think it's happiness probably gonna take you a while to recognize it again it's just it's i'm i feel free i've never felt this free in a long time so it feels wonderful the future is of course uncertain but the decision it was the right thing to do and staying there was just compromising my integrity i couldn't teach students in the way i wanted i was constantly being investigated and more investigations on more investigations i just couldn't i couldn't take it anymore there was a a breaking point but it feels great i'm so happy for you honestly i realize these things can be traumatic it's sort of like a divorce from a bad marriage it's traumatic to get out but then being out is a very very good thing and far better for your mental health and well-being than being in the midst of this terrible abusive relationship which i didn't realize that and i i've been watching you these past few years you've been amazing and i'm thinking to myself this guy he doesn't and i know that you're you're not some conservative you you're you're a democrat you're you're a liberal yeah but you push back against a lot of this orthodoxy and i'm thinking how is he doing that at portland state in one of the most liberal pockets of america and that and so i wasn't totally surprised to see it caught up with you but i was stunned to read about the abuse they put you through so let's just start a little bit earlier than than your resignation letter to get our audience up to speak how many years were you a professor at portland state oh i think my official position was 2010 when it started but i had been teaching there before that so basically i think i had 2010. and where'd you grow up massachusetts boston massachusetts right outside of boston okay so it's not a mystery to you that portland state is a pretty far left place no it wasn't a mystery to me at all and it wasn't even the leftism that bothered me um it was just the the monoculture that they created and the calling out of voices alternative voices people's but you know the the whole german first they came for you know first they came for the conservatives and they came to the moderates and they came for the liberals and then they came for me and i i i think the the important thing to remember in these conversations is what they view the institution as so for example the president of portland state university stephen percy issued a statement and he said racial justice is our highest priority really i think yeah i think it's it's worth everybody's time to just think about that for a moment and let that percolate racial justice is the university's highest priority that means that if something else comes along so there's a hierarchy right so some other value comes along like free to speech freedom of expression open inquiry racial justice will always trump that that's an astonishing statement i think we need to have that conversation not even a debate just the conversation should racial justice be the highest priority at a public institution i think that's a reasonable question for taxpayers to ask so it's a state school hence portland state okay so it is correct here's what's so i'll just as an aside so this past weekend i was in houston texas um at the crenshaw youth summit summit so dan crenshaw puts on this event for thousands of young people coming up the ranks and figuring out who they are in this world and most of them are conservative figuring out how they can be conservative college students and young people um it was fascinating it was great and i really enjoyed the whole thing but one of the things dan and i talked about on stage was how people who are what i i will say is our side your side and my side i'm not a liberal but i'm not a conservative either um i'm just i'm not woke is process that's one of the things that's binding us together you know you and dan crenshaw who is a conservative probably don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but i think you're a hundred percent aligned and i'm certainly there with you on the need to preserve processes that thus far have helped to find america as a free um state of liberty right and and that's what i see in for example your resignation letter and let me just quote from it you you talk about how you you noticed signs of illiberalism on campus quite early students refusing to engage with different points of view questions from faculty at diversity trainings that challenged the approved narratives were instantly dismissed those who asked for evidence to justify new institutional policies were accused of quote microaggressions and professors were accused of bigotry for assigning canonical texts written by philosophers who happen to have been european and male 95 of those right there are about the process starting to erode no questions can be asked no pushback is allowed no requests for data or evidence will be tolerated right and i think the thing to know is that that's by design and the idea is from aubrey lord the master's tools cannot disable the mat to disassemble the master's house so the master's house is patriarchy misogyny privilege oppression and the goal is to not let those processes be allowed to to systematically discredit them because you can't disable the patriarchy and systemic oppression by the very tools that got you there and the tools reason epistemic adequacy which basically means knowing we're talking about evidence all of the due process all of the tools that we use to build a society that you and i think are wonderful and the freest society of the world has ever seen they want to prevent people from using those tools and that's not a small thing because they're teaching people that they're teaching students that yeah we saw this um over the black lives matter protests after george floyd where these sweeping statements would be made about how ever you know black men can't leave their house in america without getting shot every day which isn't true by the police and when you would confront these these advocates with facts about police shootings and actually how they've gone down and the number in you know last year i think was 12 of unarmed black men who were killed by police out of 10 million 11 million encounters with police and arrests um they you would get scolded as having said something bigoted and you're like facts you mean facts are bigoted and the answer is yes that's what they say yeah so so let's talk about that for a second so my own when i wrote how to have impossible conversations so the literature is very clear about this when you quote unquote confront someone with facts or evidence it elicit elicits what's called the backfire effect and that is that people hunker down in their beliefs and become more confident in them so what i like to do instead is i like to ask people a question and the litmus test question that i've that i have is in 2019 because that's the last data point that i had but i think there's something more recent that how many unarmed black men were killed by police now when you ask someone that it's kind of a scale for wokeness i asked one of my neighbors in portland and she told me 22 500 in a year that's what she said yeah 22 hundred i've also asked other people they've said seven eight thousand nine thousand so the problem is that people are coming into the they're formulating their beliefs not only uh not on the basis of evidence but just wildly untethered to reality and that skews the whole belief system they have it changes it the way they view the system in the process so you know if 22 500 unarmed black men that's that's basically a holocaust we're being killed by the police every year that's just an astonishing it's it's an astonishing way to think about the world but i think it's under two dozen i mean this this past year the year before under two dozen you see different numbers based on how many they include but you know the washington post has been keeping a running tally could be 12 could be 15 could be 18 or 19 but in no event over the past couple years has it been over uh 20 and it's and you do see stats like oh um more more than die in car accidents pre again car accidents that's thousands and thousands of people dying black men die in black people anyway so we're seeing it not just at the university we're seeing it across the board where facts are considered bigoted just for being facts that count counter-dick the the narrative right can we linger on that for a second please so the the reason that facts doesn't do so these young people in uh general are being taught that their lived experience is more important than the facts so if there's a conflict between their and that's the word that's used from the literature lived experience lived experience must always trump facts and if you bring up the facts then you're being hurtful to them it's an issue it's called safetyism it's an issue of their safety yeah no i know this we talked about this when um piers morgan had his argument on the set on good morning britain where he was saying meghan markle's claiming that her son's not getting a royal title because of the color of his skin and the response uh and pierce was saying that's not true this has been in the cards whatever's going to happen on to the little baby archie was going to happen long before he was even born and the weather guy who was out there giving piers a hard time said but that's her lived experience exactly who cares i don't care for lived experiences she's the actual queen of england she isn't right but that's what happens when you start privileging when you tell everybody oh your lived experience is more important that's your reality it's it's it in philosophy you call it a subjective turn it's the turn towards subjectivity it's making everybody's lived experience trump anything in reality the the problem is that we have to live together as a society right so you can't have someone walk around think well you you can and we do to a certain extent but thinking that they're their queen of england or they're entitled to something but when we've taught a whole generation of people this and now we're reaping the consequences so those ideas we know where they come from it's not a mystery they come from the university system mm-hmm now what about the students did the student body change over those 10 years in any way dramatically yeah the student body changed dramatically and i think it could be that that it could be kind of self-selection in other words people will self-select to certain universities if they think that they have the ideologies that are there you know portland state university keeps pushing this diversity equity and inclusion which by the way those terms don't mean what people think that they mean but the student body over time became more intolerant i don't know so so portland state can't take can't take all of the blame for that because they've come up in a k-12 institution we should probably talk about this where the even if you had a wand and you could get you wave it and you get rid of all wokism from k-12 systems the problem is that you can't just go in there and nobody can just start teaching you need a teaching certificate and all those teacher ed programs they're all predicated on this book paulo ferrari's pedagogy of the oppressed which is you teach to liberate oprah too not to educate not to in fact he calls it a banking factory not to put things in you but to you know um in modern terms level level privilege so just as common there's a lot i'm packing in here but it's important so just as communist tried to level the economic playing field the woke try to level the the privilege playing field the privilege hierarchy so all of k-12 education is rooted in in these notions so even if you had a wand that got rid of all wokism from schools it would be repopulated with people who went through these teaching programs and then they'd be re-indoctrinated so when they get to portland state they've already been sufficiently indoctrinated i see it here with my kids everything constantly equity equity in every one of their classes they're learning about you know malcolm x or what have you or very specific types of quote unquote black liberation and so we have a problem that's a deep rot in our educational institutions and it's not just the university system it's as you know with paul rossi and many others it's the k-12 system right paul rossi was a guest on the show um which you should definitely go back and listen to if you haven't but he's out of a new york city private school and was a math teacher who really spoke out against this and things didn't end well at the school but they're gonna end well for paul um okay so you say in your letter and your resignation letter i never once believed the purpose of instruction was to lead my students to a particular conclusion rather i sought to create the conditions for rigorous thought to help them i love this gain the tools to hunt and furrow for their own conclusions freaking love then you write but brick by brick the university has made this kind of intellectual exploration impossible it has transformed a bastion of free inquiry into a social justice factory whose only inputs were race gender and victimhood and whose only outputs were grievance and division and my my note in the margin peter is these people are mentally ill you know that yeah that's not well thinking right you know i do think it's a kind of a mental illness but but it's not merely a mental illness so you have to there's just so much is in this conversation that we need to talk about so a lot of this is that these are very well intentioned and very well-meaning people and they they get together in groups and because they're smart they're better at rationalizing or they're better at coming to conclusions which are not true and so part of the thing that we see these in these social justice factories is they look at the purpose of the education is to it's like an indoctrination bill students need to adopt certain conclusions and if they don't adopt certain conclusions after it's like a catechism right or or kind of a kind of marxist ideological training it's not that they weren't given the information but it's that they're bad people so you have to agree with us you have to agree with these these um the principles of social justice or else there's some kind of a moral problem and one of the consequences of that is if you keep taking away voices that challenge that orthodoxy people become basically they become fanatics they become completely positive in the things in in and but that's the other thing that i was thinking about recently it's so interesting to me i was doing chin ups uh just yesterday and i ran into a professor at portland state university it was a very heated conversation somebody actually came in and asked is everything okay over here um but in within that within that conversation i think part of it is that we've we've managed to create people we've managed to make genuine disagreements into moral monsters somebody holds us they're just a nazi they're a horrible person we should inflict violence on them and it's just so tragic we've lost something so fundamental the ability to talk to each other the ability to communicate across divides telling people it's okay you don't have to share every view in common it's okay if if you have a disagreement you can still be friends in fact it's probably good for you to have disagreements that's it something it's something wonderful that we i don't want to say we've lost but certainly are losing douglas murray talks about this about how he told me when he came on he used to go out and about to be debating on stage and he'd look forward to it he knew it was going to be a wonderful you know it would be a wonderful exchange you know the intellectual firepower going on back and forth learning debating defending your position i know you love the socratic method so do i as a graduate of law school that use that and now it's to disagree or challenge this orthodoxy is offensive it makes you a bad person the per the other person needs a trigger warning for you to even say they feel unsafe right i honestly like i mean look i'm not a college professor but i i couldn't care less that they feel unsafe get used to it it's called life uh you're not gonna feel much more safe when you go out there into the real world i mean i've talked about this but at columbia university during the ferguson missouri protest after the death of michael brown columbia university in manhattan gave the law students a pass on their exams because they didn't think that they could function in the face of a perceived injustice i'm like do they have any idea what actual lawyers do they should have been kicked out of school immediately never mind given a pass on the exams all right let me stand you by right here guys squeezing has got to squeeze in a break um but we're going to talk to peter about what the students have told him personally about being afraid to speak up and he's also got a message for rachel maddow that ought to be interesting and then later adam carolla and janisteen are here and a reminder to everybody we're going to make this show available as a podcast later in the day in case you want to listen back on any and all podcasting platforms and we also have a video version now at youtube.com slash megan kelly if you want to actually see it we'll be right back welcome back to the megan kelly show everyone back with me now peter bogosian a portland university professor who resigned because he says his university has become a social justice factory and he is not alone one of the things i read in your letter peter was that um the the faculty in the administration you say they have abdicated the university's truth-seeking mission and instead they drive intolerance of divergent beliefs and opinions this has created a culture of offense where students are now afraid to speak openly and honestly and i did i wonder to myself so there are still some there who want to do that they're not all woke and on board with this ideology no most people as aristotle said they just want to know right people just want to know but it's a combination of being held hostage to the most intolerant of voices and true believers i mean you have people in the administration and my colleagues like the person i ran into when i was doing chin ups yesterday they truly believe this they are all in and so you why would you wouldn't need to hear the other side in fact you shouldn't need to hear the other side it's a kind of catechism right where there are correct answers to moral questions they know the answers to moral questions and if somebody disagrees that they're a bad person it's it's really not that complicated ultimately they look at the university system not to find truth or is a truth-seeking enterprise but to liberate from oppression to teach people about injustices grievances racism patriarchy etc and it's when you start thinking like that you understand the mindset it's key to megan to really think okay what is their actual belief and why do they believe it and then they teach it and then those kids get out you know four or five years later after having been indoctrinated and they go into the workforce and they take this nonsense with them is there any counter culture developing you know like in the in the 60s and the 70s colleges were big on the counter culture where the more the narrative is thrust on you the more they wanted to say f the man and find a different way is that is that happening at all i think there are a new well i know there are new institutions that that are being built but i don't think that there are any there are movements and i think you and i are in in certain spaces in which people are speaking honestly and openly and they're forthright in their speech but i don't think that there are any actual counter culture and movements i think that takes a little time this was this was like a blitzkrieg without a war it just came upon us and so due to the rapidity that it took over our institutions it's going to take some time to develop a meaningful resistance well that's why we'll see somebody like you you know you published your resignation letter with barry weiss at her sub stack you're here um fox news will cover this story but uh msnbc will not and you sent out an interesting tweet about that speaking of your message for rachel maddow what right well one of the reasons that i'm on for example i went on tucker or what have you to be very candid is because they called and invited me and so i said sure i'm happy to go have a conversation with you even though we have some pretty significant ideas but just by the way that's one of the reasons that we need discourse because i do think that my ideas are better and i'm more than happy to to talk to people who are across the divide and if i'm wrong i'll change my mind but that's why we need discourse that's why we need to talk to each other and so the the resignation letter was picked up all across the world german papers translations you know of course fox went crazy over it but no no one on the left no left of center media nobody no rachel maddow no cnn no msnbc no none of it and so then i i put a tweet i'd really like to have a conversation with you about our universities i'd really like to have a conversation with you i put out oregon of the oregonian finally the oregonian put something out about it but there is so here's the problem part of the problem is that if we just criticize one thing everyone will say well you don't criticize the other thing why isn't that the problem well okay well well maybe could it be that there's just more of a problem on one side with one particular thing that doesn't mean that the right doesn't of course the writers everybody every ideology has its problems but it tells me that the media ecosystem on the left is is also like the universities it's experiencing the kind of sickness they don't want to entertain views that go against the narrative they don't want to they don't want to talk about the illiberalism and the sensoriousness that's happening in academia because they view themselves as part of that movement so it tells me that there's a problem when i'm i'm more than happy to have and not even a debate just a conversation i'm more than happy to have a conversation with rachel maddow about what's going on in our universities but they don't want to cover it they're origonian they don't want to have that conversation why is that she doesn't want to hear it because they're they're not willing to stand up for process and and process makes it sound too small process is important process means due process process means free speech and the ability to engage in the intellectual exchanges we're talking about but i did think i mentioned at the top of the show this comment from this princeton professor was very telling you know she yes it basically revealed the whole philosophy um without trying to hide it like what sure we're we love free speech free speech is really important we're in favor of it however what we're talking about is free speech that's that said that advances social justice i think do we have that sound bite let's let's listen hold on well when i speak about the privileges that we have i am particularly intent on one of those privileges um this is the privilege um especially for those of us who have um the the benefits of tenure um to exercise um uh free speech but i i i don't mean free speech in the masculinized bravado sense um that um it it seems to have been stapled um uh with um in the the minds of colleagues with whom i've had disagreements over the years um i am vision of free speech in an intellectual discourse that is flexed to one specific aim and that aim is the promotion of social justice and an anti-racist social justice um at that and in order for um that work to be realized richly um and capaciously um it behooves all of us who are on the faculty to think about ways in which we can um provide effective mentoring to our students not with a view to habituating them into a practice of assimilation or indoctrinating them in the belief that somehow this is the best damn place of all but in order to provide them with the tools by which they can tear down this place and make it a better one tear down tear it down this is um correct this is classics professor danielle padilla peralta who really gives it to us straight and can i just say just the way he speaks and the way a lot of these university professors who consider themselves woke speak it's so alienating right it's like they use 25 000 words to say two things and they you know all of the terminology that they throw in there this useless word salad to try to make their ideas sound better than they are but you heard it right there free speech as long as it's in advance of his ideas that's it correct it's like tyron lannister said anything before the butt doesn't matter and i think that the key thing to think about that my own view is that he should be thanked for his honesty because very rarely are academics so honest about what they actually want they're very good at obfuscating they're very good at at kind of step beside stepping the issue but it's nice to hear someone say we should tear this place down okay well well it's good now now there's a person with whom you can you can have a conversation with them right good luck getting your next paycheck after they do right because remember the the main thinking there is that the and what they've done to my friend joshua katz is absolutely horrific they've put him in an insane ideal well you should have him on to speak with that but you know the the it's the same thing every time megan here's here's the trajectory of this somebody questions the orthodoxy then they start accusing them of creepy sexual stuff they can't get them on the creepy sexual stuff for someone on sexual stuff then they start investigating them for other things and more investigations and the threat of investigations and i was just i just recently had another investigation right before i quit i was under investigation trying to throw me out in disgrace but it's never that they randomly do this to somebody it's always you speak out against the orthodoxy we wet we come after you the threat of investigation the theft of your time going through your personal life going through finding students that you've had years ago bringing them in for interrogation i mean it's a it's an intense thing the whole thing this is happening to amy and her husband at yale law school right now correct right and they're not even the same as you they're not conservatives they're just i wouldn't describe them as woke they've pushed back a little on some of this but they're beloved by the students and loathed by the administration and bit by bit they're trying to having having dinner students with dinner but my my my i don't know amy but my um i'm i'm sorry that's happening to her and i hate to say this but this is just the beginning of your investigatory hell oh gosh so can you guys i didn't i didn't know they'd been doing that to you i mean i assume you had been getting pushback because this is a whole other story and it's awesome but you um and james lindsey and helen pluck rose had done this amazing experiment in putting out papers um that were basically fake the grievance studies papers where you put out papers with um there that were about things like quote dogs engage in rape culture and the the penis as a social construct and you got them published by all these magazines that are so woke they didn't realize it was a hoax it was a joke that they weren't supported one of them was written by an algorithm and that got published so your point was just that it woke enough and any publication will take it but was that the beginning of your status at portland state as a pariah once it was once you know it was outed that you'd been behind that no the this predated that the beginning was simply asking sincere questions what is the evidence that trigger warnings safe spaces and microaggressions are legitimate or good educational practices how do they help students where's basically where's the evidence for this the thing that i've been trained to do in philosophy and through the socratic method is just basically to ask questions and one thing ideologues don't like well they don't like humor so it's two things but they don't like questions that they don't like difficult questions when you ask them to justify the policies that now govern the institutions i mean that's when it started that's when that's when the when the pariah status started but it wasn't until i published started publishing fake papers bogus completely morally horrific papers about minecomp translating minecomp for chain leashing men like release dogs or forcing white men to sit on the floor and change as a form of experience or reparations it's not in terms of when that happened then the cat was completely out of the bag and then my life then they really came after me i just want people to we got to do a whole other episode on this peter please promise we can do that because just going back and reading like the conceptual penis as a social construct um so this is this is published in cogent social sciences you've got this published the penis should not be seen or should be seen not as an anatomical organ but as a social construct isomorphic to performative toxic masculinity oh my god you got it exactly right all the unnecessary words and the sort of multi-syllabic words to try to make it sound smarter we argue that the conceptual penis is better understood not as an anatomical organ but as a gender performative highly fluid social construct well done i got it i got what you did there highly fluid okay and then i got to read this the conceptual penis is quote exclusionary to disenfranchised communities based upon gender or reproductive identity it is an enduring source of abuse for women and other gender marginalized groups and individuals it is the universal performative source of rape and is the conceptual driver behind much of climate it's change thank you the paper should really be read in full it's it's very funny i i you thank you i'm glad you also find it fun funny so funny but the people at portland state felt differently and next thing you know certainly did you're getting investigated by i guess it was under title ix and they didn't even tell you that what you were being investigated for give you the chance to defend yourself right so the the timeline goes like this so we we realized that there was a problem in these bodies of literature and alan sokol in the late 90s published a gibberish he was a physicist and mathematician at nyu new york university he published a gibberish paper um basically lampooning postmodernism but it had all the right buzz words so we published this paper the conceptual penis is a social construct the paper received a lot of criticism and i think a lot of that criticism was justified you didn't you didn't do this paper doesn't prove what you think it proves it in order for for it to prove what you think improves you have to do x y and z you have to publish more papers and better journals et cetera so i thought okay this is great they've given us a road map let's do it challenge accepted 100 and if i'm wrong so that's this is the basis this is one of the things that i think differentiates id logs from non-ideologues is changing your mind saying hey and doing it publicly and say listen you know i made a mistake i thought this that's the kind of humility that we need to cultivate as a virtue in our institutions so i i so we did that we published or we wrote 20 papers uh helen plucker was james lindsay myself we probably wrote 20 papers we got seven of them accepted until we got busted by the wall street journal and there were some doozies in there and then the moment that happened well when i published the conceptual penis then the swat stickers and the feces and all that stuff started happening and then the lack of collegiality is the least of it the spitting etc etc but when we did the the so-called it's called became called circle square that's when that's when something hit the fan that's when the real problems started happening so when you took it next level so did your detractors on campus including your own colleagues right because part of it what most of my own colleagues most of my colleagues part of the idea was that this wasn't just something that was happening to me this was something that i was fighting back you know give a punch and take a punch and reason is we're standing up for and these bodies of scholarship they're leading us astray our public policies and we have to fight back against there's just simply no other option or the amer i mean it sounds like hyperbole but it's not the america that you think you know is gone already there's a crisis of confidence a legitimacy crisis in our institutions people don't trust their institutions anymore well they don't there's a reason they don't trust their institutions is because those institutions are not worthy of trust right that's exactly right so you know somebody tells you that there's a title ix investigation against you you know this what it's really about and this is a this is speaks to another another problem that we've been having on campuses which is a lack of due process in particular for men accused of anything under title ix and and what i glean from your letter is all you find out through the grapevine is some student says oh they were asking me if it's true he beats his wife and family i mean that's correct no more than one yeah so you don't have there's no due process so you don't have access to the accusations you have to infer them from what the the chief diversity officer asks you and when i was walking up on campus people telling me i was more mortified by it particularly given that my daughter's adopted from china and and these are just horrific allegations that they became rumor after a while absolutely libelous i mean they're lucky that you didn't sue them and and the investigation did not sustain any of that we we should we should make clear that that's the case but you tell me because it seems like even though they couldn't prove any of these bogus charges they still said well he should be counseled and by the way don't ever talk about your view of minority groups again yeah protect a client you should never be speaking about protected classes meanwhile you're like what was my original sin that led to my discussion over protected classes being a thing you don't get to know but they they think they've done a good job of silencing you on any sort of minority group but that that was the weird thing and i requested a meeting subsequent to the the conclusions that the investigator fought i mean the whole thing was so absurd it was it would be i'm trying to laugh i can laugh about it now but i wasn't laughing then i can assure you of course why why is it that i can't render my opinion or talk about protected classes but the whole university is present everybody's constantly talking about systemic racism what is it about my opinion and that's i read a statement a multi-page statement but there was something so grotesque about it you know not having a something so slimy about it uh but again it's it's the even the threat of investigation and i think this is important to know keeps people in line yeah well i mean it's amazing that feces on your office door people spitting on you on campus all of the verbal harassment the swastika that that didn't do it and so they they truly tried to shut you up they tried to close your mouth on any issues that were important to them and you finally reached your breaking point all right stand by uh we're gonna squeeze in another break and when we get back we're gonna talk about um what's next for peter and then later adam carolla and janis dean will both be here there's a clip of adam taking on governor newsom that you have got to hear don't go away welcome back everyone to the megyn kelly show here with me now peter bogosian a portland state university professor who just resigned because he says all the students are being taught is victimhood can i just round back with you on the students peter are they like would they come to you the one and say i i want to say something else i have questions about this but i'm afraid i mean how did you come to understand there were people who weren't buying all this woke indoctrination i i think people are genuinely confused but there's a culture of fear so so few people are afraid to say anything and i also think that the process of tenure makes that particularly difficult so people they learn over time to to be docile and to not speak openly and honestly about things and so often people would come to me during office hours or in class and just say i just want to have a conversa like i just honestly want to talk about these issues and i feel i can't voice my opinion i did something called a reverse q a where i list at portland state where i listen to people's experiences of social justice and anybody could speak and it's it's quite telling um before we went to break though if i may pick up on something you said yeah i did i did have a a breaking point i i did have a singular moment when someone said something to me is like well i simply cannot work here anymore and that was when i tried i tried to arrange a meeting with the president of the university stephen percy who for five minutes and he wouldn't speak with me like he just refused his office kept saying he's just too busy he's too busy oh come on for five minutes the guy's too busy okay you've been there for 10 years yeah yeah it was it was ridiculous he obviously just didn't want to talk to me so that's the other thing it's a type of dishonesty to say no i don't want to talk to you right don't don't lie to people just don't be a sneak just be honest yeah so i finally managed to get a a meeting with one of the deans and i said you know the foundation for individual rights and education has labeled portland state university one of the top 10 worst colleges for free speech in the united states and he turned to me with total sincerity i wish you could bleep out his pronoun could you because i didn't want i don't want people to know who it was if so if you could bleep on the heap well we're live on the radio so it's going to be out there but okay well in today's day and age one never knows he she i'm trying not to dox anybody you know i don't want you know people to gang up on anybody and i don't want to contribute to that culture but anyway so this individual supposed to right now turned to me with total sincerity and said it's a good thing to be on those lists oh come on i was j so like you it just it just hit me like a ton of bricks like you actually want to create this environment like you want to create the environment that puts you on a list of places opposed to freedom of speech and how can i maintain my integrity and be part of that institution it's i can't do it and that was the moment well that was i mean your your um your resignation letter really struck me i tweeted this out because i read the whole thing as soon as you sent it and this is how you ended it it has become clear to me that this institution is no place for people who intend to think freely and explore ideas keep in mind this is megan kelly saying uh this piece this is a university it's a university back to you for 10 years i have taught my students the importance of living by your principles one of mine is def is to defend our system of liberal education from those who seek to destroy it who would i be if i didn't and that's why you felt you had no choice but to leave i i have to ask you because having been through something like this i mean i have been through something like this uh in fact when i was reading about your professors turning on you and pulling out the microphone when you had people like christina hoff summers and brett weinstein and his wife heather come speak you know trying to silence your guests and silence discussion and you know basically make a pariah out of you i thought my god this is like being a former fox news anchor at nbc news um but anyway i understand as you write me in a letter it did take a human toll you say i wish i could say it didn't you know be the tough guy kissing the muscles i'm good but this does take a human toll on you it it does but i want to make crystal clear to you that i am not a victim here i knew i knew i didn't understand exactly what i was getting into but i made the decision to fight back i could have easily kept my mouth shut and things would have turned turned out much different i have a very comfortable life i'd be very chill so i'm not a victim i knew exactly what i was doing and i did it because it was the right thing to do and i would do it all over again uh maybe i i i would um i i would do it all over again to to be sure um but i'm not a victim here and i think that there's something important about standing up and speaking out and when you hear an injustice you you know don't remain silent about it speak up be bold be forthright in your speech and if if you're not then what's this whole thing about why what are you doing what kind of relationships do you want to have i couldn't agree more that's it's like somebody was asking me recently how do you handle the criticism that you receive online and elsewhere and my response was the goal is is not for it not to bother you the goal is to get to the place where you do it anyway right like correct we're humans it doesn't feel good to have terrible things said about you or to have your colleagues treat you like that the but that the goal can't be universal love otherwise you'd be taking very different positions if you have any ethics at all right you have to follow your ethical code you have to take the positions that you believe in unless that let the dust settle right where wherever it may and i feel like that's the that all of that led you to the place you are right now right and so i want to comment on the hate you get so i love your twitter feed follow you on twitter thanks for wishing me happy birthday that time it's really nice i'm a big fan of yours i said well thank you i appreciate that and and i look and i look at the criticism i i i just sometimes i just i marvel i marvel at it and i think it's two things that are going on i think it's tall poppy syndrome from the australians you know like when when somebody achieves something everybody just wants to cut them down but i think this is really important because it ties the conversation back into the university system again so one of the things that we we see happening is that when people are under accomplished they they can't take responsibility for that and yeah there are systems that have screwed people over there's just no question about it but when people think that they should rise to some kind of social i don't know a privilege or more money or what have you status in society when that doesn't happen it's very easy to blame the system right and so when they see someone like you as success instead of saying wow this person worked really hard and that's the other thing i think often people don't understand what it takes to be successful like the crazy amount of hours you've put in the crazy amount of work you've put in but it's very easy to rip people down it's very easy to blame the system it's very easy to do all of these things as opposed to taking accountability now that doesn't mean we shouldn't fix the system to to you know give everyone a public education of the first rate etc of course we need to do these things but we also need to be mindful of of our own efforts in making a contribution to things and it's very easy to sit and tweet about what a horrible person is as opposed to actually doing some work right as opposed to trying to make yourself a tall poppy you're a tall puppy too so so last question i have a minute left what's next for you because i really hope it involves jumping into this space right brett's done so well after being booted out of evergreen you were born to to be in the podcasting or digital space i i think i'm i'm a pugilist by nature i'm kind of a fighter by nature yes and so i've started a national progress alliance and it's national progress alliance.org and we're pushing back on this ideology we have a team that's we've we've put together and are really going to fight back against illiberalism and sensoriousness and make a meaningful contribution to what's going on so that's my next thing that's what i'm diving into right now let us know how we can help tall poppy peter pagosian what a pleasure thank you so much thanks megan wow what are your thoughts after hearing from peter feel encouraged a little scared call me at 8334 m egyn that's 833-446-3496 love to hear from you welcome back everyone to the megan kelly show joining me now adam carolla host of the adam corolla show and my pal janice dean who is the fox news senior meteorologist and also the woman i call bully slayer bye governor cuomo bye sorry yeah uh not sorry uh okay so so fun to have you both here this is gonna be a good time let me start with this since we are just coming off of the 911 20-year anniversary it's hard to it's hard to believe um and talk about some of the insane reaction that we're seeing now um to that i'm going to start with this weirdness from jezebel that it's just a hideous website i'm sorry to even mention them but they're not the only place we've heard this kind of reaction they're upset with disney saying disney committed the sin after 9 11 of selling patriotism to children with the following ad which had a bunch of celebrities talking about how they felt proud when they saw the flag listen to the ad the flag means everything to me it means life it means freedom it also means unity and it means love you see american flags everywhere and it just it reminds you but it also makes you really proud i spent my whole life pledging allegiance i don't think i can ever look at a flag the same way the flag stands for us as a group of people being united and being with each other in a time of need i saw a fire truck pass by the other day and it had an american flag on it and it was blowing in the wind it was so amazing everyone just started clapping and cheering and it was really special i had to drive cross country we saw the flags saw the proud to be american flashing signs on the highway all the flags you know you ride down the street and it makes you feel connected like we're in this together and the reaction from jezebel is that uh these clips eerily mirror a nation drunk on jingoism uh and going off and i'm we're gonna go on with other examples of people who are upset about any expression of patriotism or loving the flag we'll do ladies first jd your thoughts on that well my husband uh is a 911 survivor and if you're watching this on video i've got his helmet he worked for 40 35 that day right across from lincoln center they lost all of the men that were on duty that day my husband actually had the day off he went to go get his driver's license so his driver's license says september 11 2001. uh he got back to his apartment which was right across the street from his firehouse and saw the first uh plane hitting the north tower and ran across the street got in his gear put his helmet on and got a ride with a red cross truck and as he went down there he got out and as he was walking down towards the buildings to try to help others it fell and he was down there for both towers they both fell and he spent days and weeks trying to find the remains of his brothers that died that day so um you know i i'm a a proud wife of an fdny and we took our children on the 20th anniversary to 40 35 to listen to the stories that were told that day and to see my husband each time the bell rang four times uh in front of his firehouse to salute all of those that were lost that day so that's what i have to say and that's what we should be thinking about those who we lost and the way the nation rallied to fight back the way we came together in unity for you know a brief moment and remember what it meant to be an american and instead adam of doing that we're hearing things like this from the huffington post which is upset about the 911 museum saying it promotes an excessive sense of patriotism and nationalism saying it makes only cursory mention of 9 11's complicated legacy and things like the wars the us as a surveillance state and and not more they're upset not morris said at the 9 11 museum about islamophobia and racism well you know i didn't have any direct connection to 911 like janice did of course um but it seems to me as i just sort of stand back and look at what's going on it is a general attack against america and sort of what america used to be and i'm not talking about 911 i'm talking about huffpo and all these other websites you know if you did it from a sort of macro to a micro example it would be as if i said you know i love my wife my wife is fantastic of course i want a great marriage but there's all these things she's done wrong in the past and i have to bring it up every 10 seconds and then and then i would stop and go but of course she's a wonderful woman and of course i want our family to be the strongest it can be but here's a bunch of other crap she did in the past that was wrong and here's what she continues to do and at a certain point you'd have to say to yourself wait a minute do you really love your wife i mean do you really want what's best for your family and i'd go of course i love my wife of course i want what's best for my family everyone wants what's best for their family it's just here's a bunch of other stuff she did from the past and a theme starts to emerge like they are they're constantly saying you know this is a great country i love my country and then here's a bunch of crap and the flag just represents the country so look the flag represents every country every country has their own flag and you wave that flag that suggests you're proud of this country why do they get so upset every time someone waves a flag what where's that coming from if in fact they do love this country as they claim to do oh yeah now it's considered racist now you're considered absolutely a republican if you display an american flag and and possibly also you might be racist to display an american flag jd there was a story out of washington state high school out there east lake high school where the kids on friday the day before the 20-year mark wanted to wear red white and blue in in honor of the fallen and and to honor our country in the flag and it got canceled because some unknown unnamed staffer said people are going to find this offensive and racist if the kids wear red white and blue to school and they and the school caved and said oh never mind you're right i don't even know what to say to that you know i'm so grateful that uh both of my kids schools had a whole lesson about 9 11 and they were taught about what happened on that day and both of them came home and and told us what they learned and i was just so proud that those schools did that and when we took matthew and theodore down to my husband's firehouse you know my husband told them the story of what happened to him that day something that he doesn't do very often as you know he never talks about it he's a very quiet man a very private person but it's very important for him to tell our children what happened we can erase the history it's 20 years and last week uh for fox and friends i went out to different memorials all week uh you know and and talked to people who were part of the memorial or you know talked to uh firefighters who had been down uh to ground zero that day and it was very difficult for them to come and talk about that history but they said it was important because we can't forget about it i i love that your school taught your boys about it i you know we pulled our kids as you know from their old crazy woke schools and my our oldest dates was saying that they were talking about i i'd mentioned todd beamer and i'll just never forget his story from flight 93 and the guys who were aboard and gals and the flight attendant um all of whom worked together to help prevent that plane from going into the u.s capitol and they saved who knows how many lives and he his face lit up and he said i know about him i know about him let's roll and i was so thankful that the school was teaching lessons like that you know to reminding the kids about the american patriots who helped they were the first soldiers in the war um but it doesn't go that way everywhere adam and including at my old university syracuse university that's where i went my dad had been a professor there in the education department when i was a little girl and then i went there for college and majored in poli sci and this professor there it's so infuriating to me jen m jackson decides to tweet out again on 9 10 the same day that the little kids weren't allowed to wear red white and blue in washington calling 911 a strike it was a strike against heteropatriarchal capitalistic systems okay a series of tweets one day before the 20-year mark on which 2977 americans were murdered quote we have to be more honest about what 9 11 was and what it wasn't it was an attack on the hetero-patriarchal capitalistic systems that america relies upon to wrangle other countries into passivity it was an attack on the systems many white americans fight to protect um matt taibbi formerly you know on the rolling stone and now he's got a great substance going r tweeted out of course because if osama bin laden was about anything it was striking down hetero patriarchy but the insanity the insanity and the disrespect to try to make 911 about the white race well i mean obviously those folks convert everything into racism they essentially have goggles they put on that are essentially everything viewed through those goggles is racism so covid ends up taking a turn for the racist uh climate change turn for the races education everything they see is racism and it's not that they're finding it in certain places is that they literally just put on their virtual reality goggles and all they see is racism so it doesn't really matter where they turn or what they see it gets converted to racism and i don't understand a why they don't have more self-awareness about this just to literally call everything racism uh it's embarrassing to me they should be humiliated that they're adults and especially in a position of being a professor and being in the the college system or politicians the fact that they speak to young people that control a lot of the thoughts and minds and hearts of young people but this and also how could we possibly ever function as a country if every single subject that came up took a racist turn to it and they're always talking about uniting this country why are the people who are always talking about uniting the country how come they never shut up about racism how come they find it under every rock and at every turn it's literally impossible to unite and constantly bloviate about racism it says it's so infuriating when you think about all all the people who died on 9 11 all the people who died thereafter in the wars and jd as you know the firefighters who contracted cancer after working at ground zero i know it's a threat you guys live with every day thank god sean's okay now but we i know we worry just to turn around into a race or a male thing it's like you know sean is a white male and todd beamer was a white male and it's just six stop it just stop making everything about people's gender and people's skin color um but speaking of your point adam on how everything gets turned into like a racism thing the most amazing clip ever of you taking on gavin newsom on your show this is 2013 i think where he was trying well i think it actually explains itself you tweeted it out but he was trying to espouse the plight of black and latinos within either the city of san francisco or the state at that point um when it comes to financial difficulties i'm trying to set it up without giving the whole thing away and you decided to push him on it listen half of african americans in the state of california roughly half of latino families have no access to a checking account or an atm things we take for granted they don't have a check what's wrong with them and what but well because they don't they don't have the resources to sock those things away why do we have them uh a lot of different reasons but but roughly half those families don't whether why do armenians have them but where they end up is check cashing places i want to know why those groups why those two groups don't have access a lot of it just happens to be that do asians have this problem i mean a lot of communities have a lot of whites have these problems so that's not just black and hispanic no but it but why did you bring up blackness because the magnitude is ominous but why so many of them it just happens to be just that's the way god planned it not at all what about asians they were put in internment camps yeah we in fact it all initiated out of san francisco the chinese exclusion act came out so they raised the champions a lot of asians certainly do so why don't you why don't you because the only reason why is the magnitude more the magnitude and percentage but there's no way to figure out how that happens we could talk about you know what i'm dealing with i don't want to have a sociological direction for sure no no here's why why would you want to do that because the person the times wouldn't write good things about it you can't get that no no that's not the case because i want to get rid of that no you want to deal with reality i want to deal with reality people that are struggling people are suffering i want to deal with the problems why are they struggling we can hold hands and surmise about all these underwhelming reasons i don't want to do that i don't know why they're struggling why are they struggling a lot of folks are struggling because they can't fight blacks because they're working white blacks and hispanics across the board all social okay so everybody everybody's struggling so asians are suffering just as much as possible the the face of welfare is not an african-american family it's asian jewish it's all of them uh caucasian it's a catastrophe a lot of folks are strong okay that's amazing right yes that was so well done my favorite part is we could hold hands i don't want to do that i just want to know why it's like a dog with a phone this was brilliant and so your take away from that clip and that exchange that you had adam was what well he came in and he just thought he was going to get the usual friendly softball treatment he gets everywhere when he does an interview and then he does this thing where he panders so he spits something out and i wasn't planning on attacking him or sparring with him you know i do a show all guests are welcome we'll have a congenial discussion it wasn't a setup in any way shape or form he then in the middle of an interview just brought up that half of black and hispanics who live in california don't have access to checking accounts which is a lie by the way don't have access maybe choose not to get checking accounts but not don't have access to checking accounts but either way it's a gross lie that he said half don't have access that's insane you know california is probably half hispanic do you think half of the people who live in california half that group doesn't have access to a checking account you couldn't function but either way he said it i knew it was a lie so i wanted to drill down on it with him and he thought he was just going to toss it out there i was going to nod my head because i had you know white guilt and we're gonna get on to the next subject but i pressed him and when i pressed him he obviously as you heard could not summon an answer i just said why i wasn't interested in what was going on i was interested in how do we remedy this he of course had no rebuttals or answers as to how we could remedy this it was amazing i just kept asking why why why and he couldn't answer it and now we're on the eve jd of his recall possibility the election is tomorrow in california to see whether he'll be recalled if he does get recalled larry elder is the overwhelming favorite and larry was in the news a couple days ago he came on my program last tuesday and later that day somebody tried to egg him it was a white woman wearing a gorilla mask who tried to egg larry and as it turns out that's not the only abuse he suffered earlier in the day a member of his staff was shot with a bb gun um somebody else was harassed and threatened and it what's crazy to me as a lawyer i'll tell you they're not investigating that egging thing as a hate crime of any sort because they said they're not sure of the motivation i'm like the woman was wearing a gorilla mask we're not sure whether she had any racism going on there i larry to his credit as usual was a class act and said i'm not going to say it was about racism look there she is hitting the guy who confronted her this woman is still at large and this is the state of our american media because it was not a front page story everywhere well i think if he was a democrat that would be on every single newspaper on the front page including the new york times i think even larry uh said that if if he was a democrat people in bangladesh would know about that story but because he's the republican uh no one knows except here on your program when you're bringing it up it's qui i mean hypocritical doesn't begin to describe what happened on that day and and i'm just glad you know adam i wish every american could hear that clip of you and newsome going at it so that they could really get the flavor of this guy in a suit with his hair that's about all he has to offer that's right that's right he would never debate larry elder because look what happened when adam had a shot at him totally fair shot yeah asking the tough questions like why why why right he couldn't even answer that he needs to have that he needs to have that answer you know memorized because that's of course type of question that he needs to be asked why does he not have an answer for why well it's like then don't bring it up if you can't back it up and here's the other thing um larry came out yesterday with rose mcgowan and you know i i know rose and she's been obviously very pivotal in this cultural shift we've had against rapists like harvey weinstein right who were sort of allowed to get away with it for a very long time and she is alleging that gavin newsom's wife basically tried on behalf of harvey weinstein's lawyer to buy her off here's rose mcgowan with larry elder yesterday so when i finally got on the phone with jennifer siebel newsome for what i assumed was about movie projects imagine my surprise when she says what can boyce schiller do to make you happy and i again i had no idea who that was so i i just said nothing and hung up on her that was my last contact with her this is while rose was trying to get the new york times to report on the harvey weinstein as a rapist story and you tell me i'll ask you this janice whether you think this is going to get any sort of coverage in the mainstream media that's done its level best to absolutely kill larry of course not of course it's not going to get any leverage whatsoever and you know the democrats are supposed to be the ones that are so pro me too but you know just within the last couple of weeks here in new york we've realized that some of these groups like time's up are completely bogus uh they're just there to help their own right and and if it happens to be someone who's a republican then yes they're all in but if it's someone who happens to be a democrat or someone that runs hollywood like harvey weinstein and there's skin in the game well they're going to be very quiet and probably you know go even further than that and try to you know disgrace the the people who are trying to rise above it even if you are a democrat woman complaining you won't be listened to by a group by times let up if who you're alleging hurt you is a more important democrat to them that's what we saw with cuomo that's what we saw with um uh biden what am i saying with biden and tara reid and we could go on all right listen stand by because up next we're gonna talk about dr fauci who might have given his most honest answer yet in an interview when it comes to why those who have had kovid allegedly need to be vaccinated we're gonna play the tape and we would love to hear from you did you observe a patriotic moment on 911 that you want to tell us about call me at three three four four m egyn that's eight three three four four six three four nine six taking your calls in a minute welcome back to the megan kelly show in about 10-15 minutes we're going to be taking your calls at 8-3-3-4-4-m-e-g-y-n that's 833-446-3496 we'd love to get your thoughts on this next segment joining me now again are adam carolla and janice dean now before we get to dr fauci in an unbelievable sound by unbelievable um i gotta ask you jd because since you slayed the governor of new york who is no longer in office governor cuomo his replacement kathy hokel has taken over she's we were told she's a moderate democrat and i i don't think you think she's doing the greatest job based on your twitter feed so what what's going on with her i'm a little disappointed now it's only been three weeks right and i i feel like i have to give her a little bit more uh runway here but from the last few weeks that she has been in power she has an impressive twitter feed you know she's at every fair in new york state and we had of course the remnants of ida last week and we had a ton of flooding here you know uh catastrophic flooding in the new york area so she was doing you know a lot of uh outdoor press conferences and events about how they're going to change that and a lot of talk about climate change but the fact that uh you know governor cuomo after sandy never put a shovel in the ground to actually help after you know help the infrastructure after that destructive storm you know that of course was never brought up um you know i'm disappointed and the first thing that she should have done as governor which i believe would have been you know really important was to meet with families whose loved ones died in nursing homes over 15 000 elderly died in new york nursing homes governor cuomo had a mandate for 46 days to put covet positive patients into nursing homes my husband lost both of his parents in separate elder care facilities and it would have been uh you know wonderful if she had met with some of us just to say you know what we're going on with the investigation we're gonna make sure we're transparent with the numbers unlike the guy before me uh but she has yet to do that uh she needs to fire howard zucker the health commissioner he was you know the also the architect and the author of that march 25th order to put infected patients into nursing homes and then the fact that the governor covered up the numbers for months at least by 50 percent for his 5.1 million dollar book uh so you know i'm i i don't see anything from this governor that's leading me down the road to think that she's any different from the guy before yeah like we like we used to say in another context welcome to the ol welcome to the new boss same as the old boss exactly all right adam so we got to talk about dr fauci because i mean he he said the thing you're not supposed to say all along so many people have been asking especially in the wake of biden's you know 100 million vaccine mandate what about people with natural immunity what the hell was the was the point like if there's any silver lining to getting coveted it's that you have natural immunity and now that's being not recognized by the government saying you still have to get the vaccine and if you don't you get fired so you get covered you don't get the vaccine and then you get fired thanks to biden's osha order well fauci was asked about this like what about the people with natural immunity on cnn this weekend listen to what he said just real quickly there was a study that came out of israel about natural immunity and basically the headline was that natural immunity provides a lot of protection even better than the vaccines alone um what are people to make of that so so as we talk about vaccine mandates there i get calls all the time people say i've already had covid i'm protected and now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone should they also get the vaccine how do you make the case to them you know that's a really good point sanjay i don't have a really firm answer for you on that he doesn't have a firm answer he doesn't know adam he doesn't know why we are insisting that that people who have had net covid get vaccinated he goes on to say like oh you know we don't know how long it lasts we don't know how long the vaccination immunity from the shot lasts either well uh first off it's a weird time that we're living in where somebody in the press actually does their job and asks a coherent question it took you know 18 months for somebody in the press to ask a question now the problem is is rand paul's been asking questions for a long time except for they go oh well he's just being combative because he's a trumpian or something and so we can ignore his questions because his questions aren't valid because he's being combative but when you go over to our friends at cnn they don't ask questions well finally they ask the question now here's i like to play a little game called stupid or liar is fouchy saying well we don't really know about natural immunity really you haven't considered this this isn't something that came up it should have come up day one you guys should have reams of information this will by the way it's always a lie when they go well yeah but we have to sit back and take a look at the data the data's in it's much more effective than the vaccine you fouchy of all people should have known this before anybody else in america knew it and you're doing this not a bad idea we should look into this we'll wait for some of the data to come in he's either stupid in which case he needs to be removed from his job or he's lying i'm assuming he's lying he did the same thing about black lives matter marches and demonstrations remember a year and some months ago when he was asked well can't go to church can't go to a stadium can't go to a concert but what about black lives matter rallies what about these is that okay well yeah i don't know i don't have an opinion so you have a very strong opinion about people going to the ballpark to watch a game or kids playing basketball at the park but you have no thoughts about other gatherings and rallies of that nature obviously he's lying at this point they want you to take the vaccine and by the way i'm not against the vaccine but when it comes to fouchy we want the data we want the truth and then we'll make our decisions they're doing the same thing they did with aids all those years ago when they said it's an equal opportunity killer heterosexual couple gay couple it's an equal opportunity killer they know the data they know they're lying they're doing it because they look at themselves as the parents they look at us as the children and they want us to eat our vegetables so they're going to tell us about the boogeyman that's the way they do it thirdhand smoke is a killer 50 000 americans die of second hand cigarette smoke every year they know they're lying but they believe that the good is we want everyone to not smoke and to put a condom on and to get the vaccine so we need to lie in order to move a noble agenda yep yeah that's the same thing he did at the beginning of the pandemic when he says when he was saying you don't need to wear a mask masks don't do anything and then he later admitted that he in his head he was lying because he didn't want to see a run on n95 or surgical masks which were in short supply at the time so he's already proven that if he thinks it's a noble lie he'll tell it and by the way the other way you can tell he's lying is the oh um that's a that's a very good question he's stalling right he's stalling and you're raising a great point he 100 knows the answer that that there is no good reason there's no good reason and it's it's one thing when people were just pressuring folks who were unvaccinated but had coveted there's another when you're now saying by power of the federal government your ass is fired you're fired i'm gonna make sure you're fired unless you get this vaccine which you may not need at all and therefore i will end it on this legal point and this piece of our discussion um if you are a person who has had covid who wants to object to biden's sweeping announcement his executive order make them fire you make them fight don't quit don't hold on to your rights if you quit you're probably giving up your right to sue but if they fire you uh you have a legal leg to stand on so fight fight because this is bologna they don't know what they're doing all right let me shift gears and talk about did you guys watch the vmas last night at all i confess i did not watch i didn't but i saw the coverage today i know adam you always talk about this on your show that when they do this stuff out in hollywood where you are holly weird but i have to tell you jd i gotta talk to you about madonna's ass i that there is a hundred percent that that is fake there is absolutely no way that's a real bottom and i gotta tell you i know that the right thing to say is like you go girl 63 and that's what 63 looks like and you're still holding it together i that's not how i feel i feel like woman cover up it's too much like she doesn't have to quote age gracefully she doesn't have to go out there looking like you know driving miss daisy but could she just show a little a little bit more dignity for a 63 year old woman you can still be sexy without being vulgar and i just think her her old brand was vulgarity and it worked but it's working less for me as she gets into her mid 60s and is officially a member of aarp i have not seen her ass i i miss my god how you've got to google it right now it's is it like a kardashian now yes it's huge it's perfectly round it's hard you can almost see the implant adam am i wrong you as i'm sure you've looked at the ass picture well now as much as i love asses you have to understand that yesterday was the opening season of the nfl which is the greatest year for me and all i did was watch nfl highlights and i missed the highlight of madonna's ass are your priorities i yeah unfortunately i'll i'll have to uh i'll have to take a deep dive into her ass uh after we wrap this up you know what i don't need you to i don't need you to in like five minutes i'm taking audience calls for those of you who saw madonna's ass last night and anybody who watched the program could not have missed it please call me at eight three three four four m egyn eight three three four four six three four nine six you tell me four four six three four nine six whether that ass is real it was not real that my position is not real and i did not need to see it and by the way megan fox was 100 naked um which i also frankly didn't want to see she's beautiful but it's like it's too much it's gone too far right right i just you'll see the highlights later let's talk about monica lewinsky while we're talking about inappropriate behavior the press on monica lewinsky has done a full 180. and they're now she's getting the ryan murphy treatment out of hollywood he's the guy who did the people versus o.j simpson which was amazing that series um and then he did another one and now he's taking on the monica lewinsky thing with bill clinton through the eyes of the women and so we're gonna see linda tripp and monica and i guess janet reno i don't know who else is gonna be involved um but you tell me whether because you know monica lewinsky basically you listen to her today jd and it's all about you know she was sort of the first me too victim and the press killed her fox news killed her dredge killed her and i got to be honest that's about all i've heard monica lewinsky talk about for the past 20 plus years i think that's she's sort of stuck in that place i don't know whether this is a good thing for her or not but what do you make of the way that story is being covered in the wake of the uh covered now in the wake of me too have you seen the first episode of of uh impeachment no so i did watch it i mean listen i remember when that was all happening i mean the drudge report obviously was was where you got the information uh with the scandal listen it may drop it did and going through that you know during that time we were all transfixed on this story about an intern and the most powerful leader in the free world bill clinton and i recently watched an interview that she did as a young woman still in her mid-20s uh and and she you know was so well spoken for that you know time of her life i remember being in my mid-20s i didn't know what was going on you know to be in that kind of position of being an intern at the white house that's quite incredible he's a predator there there's no question uh and there were many women besides monica lewinsky so i have a soft spot for her and i only wish her the best because she was put in this situation which was quite impossible and she you know said that she was in love with him well you know being that impressionable woman in the white house with this powerful man uh you know it's hard not to be affected by that and so i watched the first episode and all i got from that was he is disgusting and the fact that i saw him at ground zero with obama and president biden he's still getting a pass today and he is the original predator uh and and the most powerful predator that we've really ever had in this country now you give yourself too hard a time when you talk about the 25 year old you because you and i both know you were out there you were was that before or after you were a dog catcher yeah the by-law enforcement officer yeah giving out tickets it's a very fun history go back go back and listen to my very first long-form interview with jd it was amazing adam what do you make of it monica lewinsky through the new the post me too lens well i mean obviously it's always tough because clinton is such an icon of the democratic party and yet you know what he did arguably is a thousand times worse than cuomo yeah i mean if you really just break down the actions it you know it's important that we sort of separate the al frankens from the harvey weinsteins or even the clintons from the cuomos or bill cosby from the cuomo's you know the big problem with the times up in the me too movement is to take everyone and throw them in the same hamper you know we'll put them all in the same together i don't care if you're al franken and you're playing a joke on a uso tour or your bill clinton who did what bill clinton did you're all in the same hamper this is part of the problem with the zero tolerance committee there's no proportionality tolerance for everything so if you comment on a woman's appearance or you pat her on the behind you're in the same boat that clinton was and what he did in the oval office it's a it's a big mistake i you know you could never prosecute a case this way this isn't the way our system is set up so you know fundamentally we have a problem in not being able to parse out and sort of nuance what are sort of jaywalking tickets versus murder one and what bill clinton did was murder one it also shows he has an addiction i mean it shows he has a problem because there are plenty of guys and there are plenty of historically plenty of cases where older guys like younger women i think we can all sign off on that premise and where guys in power abuse their power but here he is the president of the united states and he couldn't keep it under control for a very short period of time you know he literally couldn't you know it'd be like saying uh you know are you an alcoholic well i like to drink yeah but are you an alcoholic well having a few beers when you're watching football doesn't make you an alcoholic but if you have to fly a commercial jet airliner and you drink that day then you are an alcoholic and what we were saying to him is you gotta fly for the next four years or eight years can you stay off the stuff while you're in this incredibly important position and the answer was no so by definition he has an addiction well and it's like because we're not just talking about monica lewinsky when we talk about bill clinton as the original metoor i mean sadly not the original you could go way back there's a lot of them but um you know there's juanita broderick there's kathleen willy you could go down the list jd because you know paula jones allegations of rape sexual assault and so on uh i mean very severe and criminal that and he paid a lot of women off to make them go away with the help of his wife hillary clinton and a whole band of brothers i mean the truth is george stephanopoulos was one of them and george stephanopoulos is hosting morning tv right now despite the fact that he put together the clinton war room that was dedicated to tearing down every single one of those women and i really wonder whether these me too advocates are one day gonna turn to george stephanopoulos and say where's your apology where's your accountability right it's not just about him but he's somebody who's completely escaped the the questioning that came in the wake of that movement but i do want to ask you janice because you know i say i i don't know that this is a great thing for monica lewinsky that all these years after it's still what she focuses on when she pops up she talks about bullying in the context of what happened to her jump in sorry you know the whole me too thing and you talk about stephanopoulos and clinton and hillary clinton and all their discussions about everyone every woman needs to be believed and marching with time's up and me too and all that it's no different than the larry elder case where the woman dons the gorilla mask and throws the egg at the black man who by the way will be the first black governor of california in over 150 years do you guys not like racism because that's all you talk about and are you for women and women's rights and believing all women because it seems like that's all you talk about except for when it happens to your own and then you zip it or in the case of larry elder when it happens to a republican in which case you zip it so cnn are you against racism are you for women's rights and the fact that you have to weigh it out and figure out whose side of the aisle each case is on before you weigh in suggest to me you don't really care 100 right i mean janice we've seen this so many times i've told the story before but you know even when trump and i got into our weird thing i asked him that tough question about women and he started calling me a bimbo and retweeting all these like crazy attacks on me that were based on gender and national organization of women bob kiss they said not that i needed their help but i'm just saying they why because i was a fox news anchor right these the situational ethics of those who have a partisan agenda and again monica lewinsky she was too low on the totem pole she was a democrat working in a democrat white house but she was accusing their main man king bill and therefore she had to be ruined well you know i hope that this um whatever they call it a docudrama i hope that it reaches a new generation of people who don't maybe know the story and again to see bill clinton and hillary clinton just walking around and going down to ground zero and still being hailed as you know one of the greatest leaders of our time when he has got so much baggage behind him and then we haven't even talked about the ebb scene stuff i mean you know it just drives me crazy uh that we're still talking about this and he really hasn't suffered any repercussions at all yeah and meanwhile her name became a verb and she's still talking about it because it's still a verb and that's what people still think when it comes to monica lewinsky so we'll see the ryan murphy treatment is usually a fascinating treatment and a usually pretty fair one so we'll we'll find out in this case you guys so wonderful talking to you thank you so much for being here adam and jd so nice to see you all right what did you folks think about madonna's it says entrance i mean it's really more like the exit when she turned around she walked out and do you feel differently today about monica lewinsky than you did back during the scandal call me eight three three four four m egyn eight three three four four six three four nine six we're taking calls right now i love that that's our that's our room run dmc sound welcome back to the megan kelly show our phone lines are open call 8 3 3 4 4 m egyn that's 8 3 3 4 4 6 3 4 9 6 i can see the board lighten up we're going to take our first caller i got to talk to ed in ohio who wants to talk about madonna me too ed your thoughts hi megan i i didn't see the vma awards but i'm looking at her pictures she looks like she has soccer balls and planted in her totally um and it just looks so fake and then you see her the front of her she her there's not one wrinkle on her face she's got a boob job i mean this is a really a completely like plastic woman i don't see anything real on her at all you know it's the thing it's like i'm fine whatever work you want to have done you go girl it's fine by me but like people are talking about the butt like it's some sort of modern miracle and it's really just a miracle of modern medicine right and it's you know i know that she works out and that you know she's tries to keep in shape that's part of her trademark but this is clearly not something that's natural um and it's just really it's sort of like when people get their lips overblown that's kind of what this looks like mm-hmm and like the the amount of nudity honestly like i feel like i'm turning into tip or gore but like it was just a lot like leave a little to the imagination between megan fox and then i don't know it was just like i was certainly not something i would watch with my children or really by myself at all no and there's something to be said about growing old uh with a little dignity and i know madonna's really never had any dignity um because you know she's i i never thought she had a very good voice but she was incredible as far as uh self-promotion um and she that took her a long way and i just i still don't think she can sing but you know she's still out there self-promoting but she's she's she's a right she's a great entertainer but it's just it's starting to feel uncomfortable and i realize it sounds ageist but i mean what when does it stop at 83 is it like is it i just i'm not sure i just know i'm starting to feel a little weird when i see it um okay let's just with my grandchildren so yeah and i don't even have any grandkids and i feel i feel uncomfortable um all right i want to get a couple of other calls and talk to cindy in texas because she's got a she saw something on the 911 weekend that sounds kind of disturbing hey cindy standby caller three cindy in texas i can see it she's on air but i can't hear she's probably unmuting us oh cindy we'll come back to you later what do you make of it jim let's go to you in pennsylvania caller number two uh what do you want to talk about today yeah ms kelly i'm just talking about your racism segment and for a long time i believe that these democrats will see racism everywhere some people say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and i think racism is in the eye of the boulder i think they're more racist than what they see that's the thing is it's like if you choose to make that the prism through which you view all of life um it's like the hammer that sees only nails you know and the surgeon who only wants to cut like you you can find that there was a that movie boomerang back in like the 90s eddie murphy was in it and they had a character in there who was like that and he was looking at like the pool table you know billiards and he's like see like the green table it's the earth and like the goal is like they hit the black ball and the white balls the ultimate one that stays on the table it was like yeah it's it's definitely possible if that's what you're looking for that you're going to find it all right let's get down to chris in florida who's got a thought on dr fauci hey chris hey megan uh good to talk to you uh great to see you back on the air somewheres and i think uh you know back on the uh you know the box there the four by three before i guess nobody has a four by three boxing but you get what i'm saying um okay so you know on the falci thing i mean how much do you put up with um you know moving the goal posts and and this is gone from the beginning from two weeks to start to spread and remember when they said if everybody on earth wore a mask for 14 days that was another thing that this thing would just disappear so it's constantly been moving the goal post the whole way here and you know they're losing people like bill maher and stuff so how far do they let it go is it isn't it you know that don't they see what they're doing yeah i think they do and i think this was an extraordinary admission by fauci on the wake in the wake of the president's order and i do think people have had about enough of this we'll see thank you for calling you guys and thanks for everybody who joined us today and for those of you who listen don't forget to tune in tomorrow where we've got brett weinstein and heather hague his wife they're here to talk about the challenges of modern life don't miss it

Channel: Megyn Kelly

Views: 36,852

Rating: 4.9064212 out of 5

Keywords: Politics, News, Media, Journalism, Journalist, Podcast, Show, Interviews, Interview, Megyn Kelly, Megyn, Megyn Kelly Show, The Megyn Kelly Show, Current Events, Trending News

Id: JkQ74909ucE

Length: 96min 14sec (5774 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 13 2021