Real Conversations Replay: One-On-One With Renowned Short-Seller Marc Cohodes

[Music] [Music] [Applause] hi I'm Keith McCullough and welcome back to a real conversation and this one's gonna be a dandy I have mark cojones which is again one of one of one of the legendary short sellers on Wall Street he is known in many different corners of the earth many of those corners you've hopefully never been to but I don't know what to call you mark other than right on some really big things over the years you've been called many other names some of my Canadian brethren I think we're calling you a chicken farmer or something like that you do have free-range chickens but you also a free-range on this show to say whatever you want so thanks for thanks for taking the time to join me I certainly appreciate it well thanks for having me Keith it's quite an honor and we're also I'm all set to heat it up as hot as we can go well I know and hopefully I mean this is the first of more than a couple of conversations and what I'd like to do you know because you have so many ideas and and obviously frauds and bad people are revealing themselves to the world all the time hopefully through the lens of people like you and I that confined them they don't want to find us but I want to get into your process first just so people can understand you know we've been we've been demonized we've been called we've been called the bad people so I want to make sure that first we go through your process and then get through kind of the kinds of people that you find within your process when you find what you think is a short but maybe just first start with like an opening opening volley on on your process itself okay that sounds good so anything I say folks just it's my opinion I have very strong opinions I do an inordinate amount of work to form those opinions but before you do anything I say or talk about do your own work and everyone's an adult and if you're a Kay check with your folks first you know my my my process is I don't I don't really care about stock valuations and I don't really care about all managed or good companies I won't short a stock because it's high I won't buy something that it's low I think legitimate people I wish them nothing but the best they don't know who the hell I am but all the bad actors in all parts of the world know who I am which is which sort of speaks volume to what goes on I try I really try I use sports metaphors a lot usually in shorts I try to find the Ken griffeys of bad companies ken griffey in my mind was the best ball player I've ever seen he could hit for power average he could run RBIs leader good field if he wasn't injured as much as he was probably the greatest ball player of all time stills outstanding so I try to find bad management's bad motives ripping off people innocence whether its insurance companies seniors payers if you're in medical I look for a bad accounting and I look for people who have no respect for the law no respect for markets and no respect for free speech and occasionally occasionally I find some of these actors and companies and then I get involved and I get involved in a big way and I'm sort of project based I don't have a diversified portfolio I don't view myself as portfolio based I look at things project by project by project and usually when I'm really on to something companies or players or pate rolls make it personal they threaten my family they threat I have a disabled 32 year old son who lives on the property we built the house for him they threatened him if they threatened to kill him a few times and in extreme cases bad actors at we bribed sitting senators to have the FBI come by and visit me and tell me to quit tweeting that was the most extreme thing I've seen so so that's my overall overarching process where I try to find things and when I dig in I tend to dig in deeply and I don't move until I want to move so sadly I am NOT a normal person I don't sleep much I have a restless mind I give my wife and my kids a lot of credit for dealing with me I'm loyal to my friends to a fault I have a lot of friends but very few who I'm very close with because I tend not to trust people and I sort of view the world as the only one I can count on the process is myself so I don't rely on others I don't contrary to popular belief work in a Wolf Pack but I am a nasty when you stir me up and right now I'm beyond stirred up on a few things and I can't wait for these things to meet their end and then I'll try to figure out what I want to do when I grow up but I just turned 59 and I feel spry but certain years in dog years I've been through a lot really good and really bad and you learned from the bed and you it's very important to enjoy the good because the good doesn't last and when you move the needle or make a difference a lot of people want to see you fail and serves as extreme motivation for me you know that's my overarching look on things and I I really respect greatly free speakers like yourself who lean against the wind and people should pay attention to you they should pay attention to real vision and they should completely and utterly ignore CNBC which I call the Cartoon Network which sort of does the financial community to disservice and and it's it sends me to see what goes on that's uh that's my quick and dirty on that well I wanted to give you the opportunity to say that and and and like anyone who has a real process I mean you you say it's simply and succinctly but you also yeah self effacing about this I mean I on a personal level I can certainly associate with what you say what you say and how you feel about this I mean you have to a degree trow the Trojan horse has been Twitter so our free speech has been amplified but on the same the other side of that coin is that you know or even before the show I was talking to Dan hall and I said my eyes twitching what the hell is wrong with what the hell's wrong the music did you sleep last night I said no not really because you know you got you got to get up and crank if you're gonna go after the old wall and all of its media and all the bad guys then yeah it's a lot of work so I appreciate that I'm sorry to hear that your son's had to go through that that's just that's ridiculous that's terrible my sister has cerebral palsy so I can associate with with some something as disgusting as people doing something like that and and oddly enough that was another you know another company that you found through trying to find good for your son so we'll get into that too but um I will just just along those lines right you know currently with this thing called my medics my medics actually pays people to stalk me and troll me and some of the stuff has gotten beyond serious and this is a letter from my attorney to the FBI in Denver and the Denver police enough in Denver about a guy named Todd Rinaldi Twitter seems fit to knock down critics of Tesla and people who say bad things about Tesla but they have no problems with people who are trying to kill me and and my lawyer writes about a guy named Todd Renault and he says cojones is a twitter user where he primarily engages in discussions about investments in companies he talks about my medics Tom Rinaldi is an investor in my medic shares or he may be operating at the behest of my medics first the tweets contain the following threats Rinaldi writes I walk around my and a night thinking of you piece of thrashing life it's coming emphasis added shortly thereafter Rinaldi wrote all I do is think of you next day I want to think of yourself is North Korea next day think of me as Nicky in the movie Casino and I look at you and think of you as the Irishman Nicky was the murderer played by Joe Pesci in the movie Casino and murdered the Irishman I'm putting his head in a vise September the next day Rinaldi writes it's coming next day Rinaldi posts a picture of a murder victim Monroe mbx gee this is you mark which indicated that will nollie planned to kill mr. cojones before he did not like when mr. cojones was saying about my medics so this is a guy on February 1st 2018 after a review of Rinaldi's history in the Colorado Dental Board determined that Rinaldi had violated the dental Privacy Act and voted to suspend Rinaldi Rinaldi can no longer practice medicine in Colorado after after he admitted he suffered from narcissistic personality and impulse control disorder these are the kind of people on Twitter who are paid by the likes of my medics to stalk and threaten me to keep me quiet and it won't work but folks there there comes a time where enough is enough and enough is a enough when it comes to these names and I will not stop a great price to my wife my son my family and myself but if anyone from Twitter is out there and any free speaking attorneys are out there it's time to curtail the abuse that Keith gets that I get Frazier pairing other free speakers get because sooner or later it's going to get dangerous and it's not right in free speech is free speech and president claims he wants to be a free speaker but I do have rights and I've been sued many times threatened many times but enough enough so this is what I have to go through right I don't ask for this but I'd go through it but one thing is I will not stop I will not stop till these guys meet their faith and and again it's it's the underside of what goes on for speaking your minds and if I have to be the poster child for change it better change and it should change quickly so I just I just wanted to get that off my chest that I'm not making this stuff up and and you know it's it's sad I have to pay waters what I pay them just to defend myself yes that's bananas and sort and sure some of these people obviously but that is scary I mean on many levels do you think if you you know Twitter is our Trojan horse market at the same time you know it's also their horse you coming right back at us I mean what would you would you have it any other way or is this just part of the deal well told it is I use Twitter to talk about certain names but Twitter is a great vehicle it just needs to be policed a whole lot better because I get tremendous sources on Twitter yeah there are a lot of people who have great information on great names that I'm involved in who reach out to me through Twitter and it's very very important but one also is important is people can't hide behind anonymity and threaten people it's ok if you want to go to a baseball game and boo the crap out of Reggie Jackson as he hits one 500 feet over the fence but what's not okay is to hide behind anonymity and threaten people and threaten disabled people and threaten my wife and bribe a senator to have the FBI visit me where the FBI said if they have to come back again and tell me to quit tweeting there will be consequences right I mean I mean that that part is over the edge and my attorney who is a former US Attorney is all over the FBI in San Francisco and the DOJ and other things about this guy isaacsohn who teed it up the senior senator from Georgia and the FBI but ever you know no one does anything it's just you know it's I think part of the deal till something changes I don't think that it's brave but it just needs to be it just needs to be policed a little better than it is let's get into this some let's get into this my medics just yeah this this Pete Pettit if that's how you pronounce it and the archives the the senator from Arkansas just so that people a lot of people are listening to this and probably a little taken aback by how serious this this is and and how serious the work that you you you do has become to you personally can you explain you know what's happened here with this company and a why you don't why your short seller of it and and B why it's come to where it's come to with the FBI coming to your house okay that's a it's a good point so I'm lying on my pink couch one day a couple years back just doing some reading and Carson block calls men he says if you seen what my medics is writing about you and I say don't what the is in my medics I've never heard of this thing so light so he points me to the website and and I'm being called a money launderer a head of a drug cartel work with Hells Angels things like that and I said this is just absolutely crazy so I called my attorney says this is defamation he writes my medics a letter and says you take it down or we'll come after you my medics takes it down they send a letter apologizing and I post it on Twitter saying here's this my medics ten minutes later 15 to 20 former my medics employees are all over my DM sending me one piece of bad information after the next of what this company is channel stuffing ripping off bad science the whole thing I then say send it to my email and I was going I was speaking of grants I think in six days the conference in New York and I had my presentation in I said this my Maddox is so outstanding I'm gonna start talking about my medics so I make a little my medics presentation and it turns out through FOIA is that day Parker petit reached out to Senator Isakson about what I was talking about and that's when the FBI activity actually began it had nothing to do with what I was tweeting about with my medics hmm it was Parker petit actually bribing and paying a senator paying a senator I have a copy of the canceled check from my medics to Isaacson to get them to shut me up Wow and then it's just been something ever since it's been it's been crazy I I got so fed up with it I got so fed up with it in January I think this was one of my greatest accomplishments and I'd done some crazy stuff over the years on January 23rd I wrote the auditor of the NY a letter his name is Andrew Brock who's actually here oh they should give him a raise Indian wide dear mr. Brock see please see the primary source documents court documents and analysis on what I believe to be the 12 categories of serious wrongdoing of my medics each category is bound separately some categories are too large for one binding and are therefore bound across separate volumes additional volumes in these categories have the same title I have identified 12 two string distinct categories of egregious wrongdoing I've dubbed my medics and around-the-clock fraud please see the following table for contents thank you please contact me Marc cojones I give him my phone number around the clock from Medicare fraud one endangering patient safety to three undisclosed federal criminal investigations and evidence destruction for bullying threats extortion five abuse of process six old boys club which include rape and sexual harassment seven influence pending eight securities fraud nine accounting fraud ten kickbacks and bribery 11 stock fraud 12 criminal organization targeting and promoting known criminals now I sent that letter on January 23rd in the auditors at the end of February said that they need to walk away back up do an internal investigation and spin downhill for them ever since and I haven't stopped I haven't stopped and our mutual friend grant Williams did a real vision with me in January and he said I know you're driven on my medics it's a great story this any other are you still short and I said yeah I'm still short if he goes why don't you cover your short and that way carry on is normal but then people will realize this is all about the cause and not making money so for the first time ever I was in a Wall Street Journal video about a week ago I covered 98% of my short in my medics after I spoke with grant because I want everyone to know right now my medics has nothing to do with money for me this is all about principle and seeing these undesirable in this criminal operation brought to justice so when this company is fully exposed for what it is and there's criminal wrongdoing going on as we speak with people who are currently they're meeting with federal police as we speak right when this thing happens I want everyone to know this has nothing to do with money for me this is all about principle and I won't stop I won't stop till it happens because they're injecting veterans who this company this country should salute with absolute poise provable poison in this product and and the current management is aware of criminal activities and there is a 96 page whistleblower report that I have access to and I don't trade the stop and I don't want to trade the stock for that reason but what's going on there now contrary to what anyone knows my medics is a criminal operation and I defy them to attempt to try to come after me because I will hit these guys with everything I have and they see nothing yet because when this comes out it needs to come out what's exactly going on in the Medicare Medicaid insurance scam VA system because our veterans are being ripped off they're being injected with that medicine and and all of the bad actors at my medics are still there Parker Patito go to jail and his henchmen will go to jail or get arrested if there's such a thing in circa 2019 but this pound for pound is the biggest fraud I've ever seen and I exposed learn out and house me which was the biggest fraud in Europe at the time and it still may be so this is zero yeah that's a status statement an action which which went to zero so so the head of regulatory at my medics a guy named Rogers these guys have destroyed adverse events in their products without submitting them to the FDA they've destroyed adverse events at least 60 Wow and everything is being covered up senior management knows this but they carry on and everyone thinks it's great because they brought it in a new lady who used to be an investment banker at Robertson Stephens and everything's fine and they have an activist in there and all as well but just wait just wait till they uncover things just wait it's gonna be something well then the incentives component of this and this is I want to unpack this you know quickly because you know the the great insult they think to us the short-sellers is that we're only doing it to make money whereas if you really look at the incentives what we're uncovering here are people that are doing everything that they're doing fully loaded with illegal activity and to say that would understand we were saying what's happening at this company you did that's all they're doing it for you know this is this this business and you know everything that supports that the fully conflicted and compromised network that is CNBC that supports the non exploration of these things is all about making money there's absolutely no there's nope like I mean it so we don't we shouldn't have to apologize for that we're trying to do in this case in the case of people that are being fed poison or in the case of learn out and house B which is it's trying to sell kids like yours a very bad and and and whatever you would call Trump couldn't even describe it with more adjectives type product that's what this is about this is about actually being transparent accountable and truthful and I don't know why we end up being vilified for that this is America for god sakes well it's it's America but then as we like go to Canada I have a friend he's walking the streets one day and someone walks up told my palate is and says cojones what do you think of them and he says I love the guy I think he's great and I said that's nice you were to say and and his buddy says why he said because he took on fortress in syndicated mortgages in Canada he probably saved the system five to twenty billion dollars by exposing what goes on at zero profit to him and a great risk right there was no stock play I was involved in was syndicated mortgages in Canada by an exposing fortress and all I made were enemies and people threatening me but I helped expose and bring down ripping off hard-working Canadians and I wasn't short anything in syndicated mortgages same thing with money laundering in Vancouver yeah I mean and then Hoover I'm a hero and Toronto they want me dead but I've exposed money laundry I've exposed what goes on with housing the Attorney General there is my pal but when you speak truth to power and there's so much money on the other side and that's the real issue here Keith there's so much money wanting to see me fail or be wrong or shut you up or shut up the likes of Howard penny or the free speakers or things like that for exposing things that are wrong they would just as soon see me quiet dead stifled the whole thing and they work overtime to make that happen no they way they don't they don't just work overtime Marc they work together and this is the big thing that a lot of people miss with the cabal that that is the old wall and its media it's from all different angles they work together they lock arms they lock you know they lock arms and go after you I remember when we were making a and and I'm like you in this case it's because I am I actually put myself I put rules around myself where I can't short the stock like let's say Lin energy which was a fraud and it went to zero now I didn't make money on short sell in the stock I made money on illuminating it to institutional clients that were being lied to but not only the company but Leon Cooperman who also took a personal stake in the company who I went into his office and he tried to you know do didn't try to kill me or anything this is Leon Cupra but at the end of the day you know this is we get paid like investigative journalists used to Ida Tarbell against Standard Oil I mean this is this like that's the part of America that I'm talking about and and and at the end of the day I think that people may may understand that the other side is what has the most to lose from a monetary perspective the last the last thing on this I want to hit on a couple other companies because we only have certain amount of time by the way if you have questions for mark firearm in the queue I'll try to get to them as best I can but on this yeah on this on this Parker petite you know Parker petite who really you said this is that one of the most epic or the most epic frauds that you've seen to paraphrase what you said like is there something about Parker that is very similar or you know I guess a common trade amongst pretty much every fraud that you find he he you know on a couple of these real vision bill deals that I've done I sort of classify there are seven types of things you look for you know in these things and one is fraud all these guys are hugely narcissistic you know including my old friend kevin O'Leary when he ran softkey who's recreated himself many zillion times who is just a complete adjunct failure in everything he touches Parker has been doing this for 30 years and he has huge enablers in Isaacson who's the senator from Georgia he gave money to Georgia State donated them they're worthless mimetic stock when you had been a serial fraudster for 30 years and you threatened bully harass to extort everybody you think you can't fail and you think you can get away with it again and again and again and you're actually above the law Parker in his own ways and he's five foot tall which is which is an issue in an indicator he wears a wig anyone who's a CEO who wears a wig I think I'm now 16 out of 17 success rate is really CEOs who wear wigs he never smiles I think he's missing his teeth so when I see someone wearing a wig runs a company I think I will short the stock on the spot and I mean literally and and he's small and he's a bully and I went up to him at a JPMorgan conference because he was harassing me and I literally walked up to the stage I got down on my knees because he's a small man and I shook his hand and he was shaking like a leaf so these guys who tend to attack the message frauded Bible Belt then he went to Concordia he sued me in Canada for saying that he was involved in nonsense so when companies attack messengers rather than focusing on the message you tend to be on the real right track and there are certain guys out there right now who are doing that who are doing that and to tell and that's a sign for me to really dig in so I don't mean this in a pervy or weird way but I'm a stalker i watch what's going on like a hawk i watch it from the back of my head I watch it straight forward i watch what's going on and something right now that's going on that I just can't stand right and and my emails are hacked all the time if they had anything on me they'd come with it is this what a fare card in Germany whatever card in German is a twenty billion dollar market cap company trades at roughly 50 times earnings I don't care about the multiple but these guys literally literally threaten skeptics by showing up at their kids school getting in people's cars holding them at gunpoint threatening them the company is suing the Financial Times they got the German regulator to put a short sale ban on the stock Robby Boyd who I think does the greatest forensic accounting in journalism work of our era writes about wire card and he was out here the other day and rowdy Boyd said it's the biggest fraud he's ever seen he says it's of epic proportions and this is a 20 billion dollar company 20 billion on the decks on the decks where Baffin needs to put in a short sale rule because they said it may adversely affect the German economy now I've not done the primary research on wire card I read everything that's out there but they threaten people mercilessly they sue everyone mercilessly it is the publicly traded vehicle of money laundering money laundering is a worldwide problem if you're in Russia China the u.s. Cuba Canada everyone knows money laundering is a huge issue and in all the work that was done by the great Dan McCrum at the Financial Times rowdy boy and others it's all out there for the public to find I urge everyone to dig into wire card because you cannot as a country sue the financial times about all this wet these wacky conspiracy theories without getting into the details of what they're talking about it is just wrong and I employ everyone in the mainstream media worldwide to look into what water card is trying to do to the Financial Times because it's just like khashoggi right if you don't like what someone says they just have you killed if you don't like what the Financial Times writes about the Germans just sue and open up an investigation into the Financial Times and it's the death of free speech and it's the death of truth to power and it's something that is so remarkable it is the line in the sand there's a lot investigated in France criminally he's getting investigated in Germany criminally person blog he's a legitimate operator as his Fraser parent a new you is getting investigated in Germany I mean the ASC comes out out of the blue and Sue's me for an emergency order to quit tweeting about and talking about and trading badger daily right emergency order so I have to go hire another Canadian attorney right to take the Alberta Security Commission to court and I won I won and I won instead of saying you I just don't even care it's just the principle of trying to shut everyone the up and it's just wrong no it's and it's it's all interconnected and at the end of the day that's why these people you know that's why the the mainstream media in particular on Wall Street is comply kai said it's conflicted compromise constrained and these people are all in it together that's why O'Leary and oh she shares comes to be it's how he gets paid on it and then it gets cut in half or whatever it's worth today don't even care what what I really care about and people should care about is it not once did Melissa Lee who went to Harvard or any of the journalists at CNBC ever call him out ask him a question about it ask him about softkey instead they give him a name like mr. wonderful and right beside Jim Cramer telling you to buy lift on the open these guys are the ones that are losing mom and pop all the money so it's that to me it was a it was a great revelation mark I just couldn't believe it until Maria Bartiromo just to give you one piece of info you probably didn't have I used to be on Fox you know they wanted to destroy CNBC Maria was over there it was great for me like in terms of people actually figuring out what hedge I was what the greatest blessing was actually figuring out how uniquely conflicted and compromised the media was rate to its core but the minute that we wrote a short selling report on her husband's company WisdomTree I was done in not only her world life but never to be on Fox again now and that that that is journalism that is quintessential journalism that is what we have today if you go to power with the truth and the truth gets them in a position where there have been revealed or anything for that matter it's it's just your road blocked and in your case you you get death threats and and an FBI visits I haven't quite had that yet on the FBI visits but I guess after this discussion I might get one well you you you may or you may not but Kramer I like and I respect them because at least Kramer was on the field of play Kramer at least was a market professional ran a hedge fund and I've known him forever and I disagree with him vehement Lee on many names but the guy tries and he was in the money management business O'Leary was is his slash was a complete blowhard and he masterminded this softkey fraud which I was involved in and I used to and I think I still scare the living out of him because I expose softkey I wrote letters to learning company I roll letters to Mattel not to buy his fraud out and they still did it and they pay for it dearly nobody he's he's a cash-flow guy you didn't hear you think it's a cash flow of a company called soft key that from what I understand never had any cash flow or free cash flow it was a scheme it was a rollup it lost money it was a dusting thing and he ran a scheme and he knew it and you know he just doesn't like it then I call him rat face he looks like a rat and he acts like a rat I mean if you look at him with with black he's just a complete wreck so you want to know you want to know another name that I have that I'm very serious about that is the ken griffey right now yeah it's a company called Lynette trades simple LCI it's in the generic drug business which is probably the worst business right now on the planet it's the most leveraged company out there they're more leverage than Temba they just lost 60% of their business which is leave oh and by my estimation they gouged the US government for over 300 million since levo was in the bit since libo was theirs why is it so great one their leverage probably six six to seven spins of leverage depending on what number you look at they're not going to make any number going forward their gross margins are artificially high but what's truly amazing and truly wonderful this Forbes just wrote an article about generic drugs and generic drug pricing and price fixing which hurts everybody the generic drug industry's being sued by the state of Connecticut and 44 other states I think the DOJ is going to go after him but they highlighted a lady by the name of Maureen Cavanaugh who helped rig 107 drugs at Emma booth she's now in the exact same role at Lynette and since all this stuff has broken about the 44 state lawsuit the only thing that Lynette's announced is that their CFO is leaving they haven't put out an 8k about the suit they haven't conducted an internal investigation Maureen Kavanaugh and others still have a job and this is a company whose core competency at 7:01 leverage is ripping off the seniors Medicare insurance companies everyone well these companies should not be in business they should not be in business they have 800 million a day 250 million a market cap and next year they're not going to be able to make their interest expense but yet Wall Street looks the other way and I'm highly confident though can't prove it quite yet that the company pays a pump-and-dump artist named gaijin teal who should be in jail if you google him to pump the stock to buy go to I go to Twitter and say you should be very careful about looking and following pump-and-dump artists gaijin teal into this Linette because that's all he does and he tweets out the only thing I pump and dump is your wife oh my God he's constant about that so it's like little brother-brother is this really where you want to go but I spend day and night digging into their drugs whose they're ripping off yeah in the CFO has said uncle I have to walk awareness is the odd order so it should be something yeah where this comes comes back then again this is to serve and protect I mean is the way you and I see it against fraudsters it and and really like if you just I'm just pulling up the holders of this stock I've never even heard of this stock by the way nor do I have an opinion on it but you know if if Blackrock owns it or JP Morgan owns it or whatever State Street owns it in a passive or active fund and it is what mark says it is and by the way the stock has been a disaster going back to when peak back looks like in 2015 I mean you lose money when that happens so it's there the whole other side of this needs to have some illumination on it why Disha by the way why is Deshawn 11 percent of the stock market probably shows up on some screen and they think it's cheap and they want to play a game I mean people who are following my medic's the biggest holders and my maddox other than parker petit where all these index funds oh so it's indexes and quants that don't do the research they just own the the exposure it's exactly if people wrote letters to the index funds and the quant saying why do you own my medics this this and this and the letters are thrown away by medics gets delisted and all the index funds sold the stock in between a dollar and a dollar fifty down from fifteen and again CNBC and the likes try to make this investment it's sort of like investing for dummies it's sort of the difference between pro wrestling and amateur wrestling they say indexing funds or Kwan's for this than the other it's garbage in garbage out I mean I spoke at Harvard and I told some of the young people there instead of being in private equity or VC or where you can make a lot of money run an index fund but run an index fund where you screen out the garbage screen out my medics screen out Linette screen out Lin energy and if you run an index of companies that that fraud detectors aren't after it would be a hugely successful product I mean you guys should do something like that you could take an SP index and say what are the 50 to 70 names we want to exclude and I mean I was all over signatures if you would have excluded Sidman and a couple of others you'd have vast out performance but these guys own everything and they say it's a cheap way to do it but you get what you pay for you get what you pay for you know and and people think that if they can watch CNBC for free it's great but people should drop 200 bucks and subscribe to real vision or drop whatever you charge people and listen to you you don't get it right all the time you can't get it right all the time but you given your level-headed best you you I I and you and others a few others out there truly take pride in what they do I hate to lose and I like to win but there's nothing I hate more than losing and or a cost and people I know money I hate it I hate it me too it's the worst you know I gotta get some I gotta get into some questions if you don't mind here Marcus you're getting like as you might imagine an unbelievable amount of questions here actually a lot of questions on a name you mentioned but I don't know if you want to you know go off to too much on it but can you comment on on musk and Tesla and what you see going on there does this fit a fraudster is the questions Tesla I'm sure Tesla I've been short Tesla I'm not the authority on Tesla there's been some tremendous work done on Twitter by the so called Tesla Q crowd an Indian fella came to me with all sorts of issues that Tesla was stalking him they gave him a temporary restraining order I suggested he started GoFundMe pages right 150 thousand dollars he'll be going after Tesla Tesla is one of the greatest things I've seen I'm pals with Einhorn Einhorn thinks that musk is worse than PT Barnum I think musk is destroyed what little is left of the SEC and the reputation by challenging them and then backing down I think Tesla is is entertainment unto itself and passerby and Tesla I think it's something but there are authorities and Tesla and I'm not one of them I'm spending my time on Lynette my medics sometime on wire card and some other stuff but Tesla's you're on the right track with Tesla yep okay you guys have done a great job with Tesla as well well the guy's been all over it Thanks I'm pretty sure Annette's yeah with us it's I think you know the bigger a brand gets in the more powerful kind of our voice gets on the platform it's harder for people to show up with death threats just because you know we're just we're a we have 80 people here I mean it's it's real people with with real credibility so we actually haven't had any lethal threats from Tesla on our work what's interesting this must must tends to pick on the weak yeah he doesn't go after real men he goes after boys yeah he goes after faceless people who he thinks don't have the wherewithal to fight them yep and and Tesla - you're a conflict thing Melissa leaves husband Benton callow is the biggest bull on the street at Baird and there's never any disclosure on CNBC that her husband is the chief pout of Tesla I mean she sits there in defense Tesla up down in sideways which is her prerogative totally fine no no problem with that it just should be disclosed that she wakes up and goes to bed with the same guy who's the chief tout no I agree I agree a hundred percent it's just wrong and into Kramer's credit the Kramer's credit I mean I know a lot of people again lightning-rod him his credit he's called Tesla for what it is I mean he does call Moscow a carnival barker and and you know he can say it could be okay for a trade but he's pretty much calling this thing lately for what it is yes to be clear on Cramer actually appreciate his bravery I don't appreciate his accuracy on a lot of different things but the reality is that you know he called me in charge of a bear raid on Linn energy that I was shooting against Leon Cooperman then Cooper and went and said that I was shooting against the rest of his MLP Long's that were all frauds I mean he he actually he got a Welles notice for what he was doing and and Cramer supported it and he knew it and he tried to make me look like I was the bad guy and at the end of the day so did Business Insider it's the cabal that's what I meant by it well here's and that full circle is like it's just wrong that's I don't do that I get it right but I'm an old man I go back with Cooper meant to when he was the chief strategist at Goldman yeah create Cooper mints at goldman guy and Kramer's at Goldman guy in gold guys defend Goldman and I've been after Cooperman and I've been short a lot of his lawns over the years and the one thing I'll say about Cooperman I have a love-hate relationship with them when you're right he usually calls you up and says you were right I was wrong I mean Cooperman makes an inordinately but he gets some stuff right and I've always thought that Cooperman at least with me he's always playing me straight up he he goes after me hard when I'm coming for him but at the end of the day if I'm right he congratulate Smee so you know Cooper Miz Cooperman he's an old man but I don't agree a lot with them but but I respect his standing yeah yeah at least Cooper I mean I'm not kidding you I he had me and Kevin Kaiser our analysts at the time in his office with the CFO of linen energy he called him and then he couldn't get him and got the CEO on the phone on speaker with us sitting there and and he put the guys for his feet to the fire he said and I'll never forget this he said these guys have nice suits they have nice suit my analyst said he had his analysts in here who's this guy who's sweating bullets this X but I think Bank of America banker guy MLP guy and he said you know if these guys are the nice suits are right you're getting fired and you pointed out his analyst so he was actually like vetting it at least whereas a lot of these people just hide and I got to give that Jimmy Cooper business that's his MO and I give him a lot of credit for that and that's why he used to turn over his analysts huge in his firm I was on the other side of him with with an Omega supplier called HMT and he got the lady on the phone he got the management on the phone and I said Here I am and here's why this thing's going to zero in it I think hnt actually went to a negative number and Cooperman said he it up he got it wrong but but but at least I respect his game I don't agree with his game but I respect it now that critic so bet back back to the point like whether whether or not you know it's people that actually then you got the posers versus like you know Leary the downtown Josh Brown guys to stock in his life I mean these these guys are like pure unadulterated posers literally they would go to your ken griffey example walk into a major league stadium and try to mock ken griffey and say and then and and and not have to take a cut at a fastball these guys are like a joke but that's that's who CNBC loves and I love to compete against that because again you're gonna make a lot of money over time competing against that type of thing but the king but the King Griffey analogy was stops if you look at your stock and say is this Ken Griffey you know what you know what Amazon and I've never been laundered and I've never been sure to share Amazon is the Ken Griffey of lawns it really hit it's well run well-managed dominating good balance sheet end to end and I don't give a what multiple it sells for I would never be sure to Amazon if the if you think the markets gonna go down sell all their Long's or buy puts but but if Amazon's the kanger if you have Long's Lynette wire card are the ken griffey assurance right now and then there's nothing like parker petit there's nothing like or ever will be like my meds yeah there's a that's um that's something I've had to learn the hard way over the years as a as a young by side analysts who short stocks you know I had to learn that you know valuations not a catalyst what is a catalyst is the momentum of the business which Amazon clearly has had and if you can't show me a deceleration in that momentum and or fraud it's not a short expensive gets more expensive the whole way up well it's the same thing in my mind with Netflix I mean I'm pals with Packer at Wedbush and people made trade Netflix and do whatever and great you know knock yourself out there's a lot of ways to skin the cat but to me Reed Hastings is a man I mean that guy is an operator and has buried the skeptics over a long period of time and he and he's takes the high road always never bad-mouthed she tries to shoot matters he just said it is if he up he owns it and if he gets it right he gives other people credit so you know my hats off to guys like him and all the other good opera I just I just wish I wasn't so messed up in the head that I could have owned these things over time instead of you know doing what I do but you know that's that's my problem now I get my own I got my own issues too clearly but a lot of questions a lot of questions or I'm just gonna start throwing some tickers at you one that we're getting a lot obviously is overstock what do you think they're well overstock I like overstock I own overstock I'm a believer in overstock it's all there I respect Patrick Byrne greatly we used to be archenemies now I'm his friend the guy's a three-time cancer survivor last year sadly I lost six close friends to cancer so that's a dreaded disease and so I admire what the guy has been through he's a visionary second to none but he has not executed he has not executed on anything he has said and that's why the stocks where it's at I wrote a letter to the board I said I've made my position clear that Byrne should be the chairman or non-executive CEO that they should bring in a Wall Street friendly CEO to run the company and we'll see what happens I'm not an activist too busy I'm too old but if they kick burn upstairs and bring in a Wall Street friendly person to sell off or monetize Medici assets which is their blockchain part of the business and sell retail and retail has had numerous bids which they passed sadly the stock will do really well but what you see is what you get at $10 I own it I liked it I bought it at 15 I talked about it at Grant's at 30 and went to 90 and now it's 10 yeah so I own it I wish I was shorted higher I'm not and I've been wrong and I own it and I give all the skeptics credit saying that Bern can't do this Bern can't do that he he's falling down in his execution and hopefully they bring in someone who can execute but it's uh it's it's sadly it show me from here but I'm there go home all right in there here's another I mean this is actually there are a lot of questions on on Trump in this stock market mania that people refuse to call what it is actually we have a good chart that we're posting I think tomorrow or the next day on just in profitless tech companies the market cap versus when it was last time at this level so clearly we have a bubble when you have stocks like that and Beyond bubbly or beyond meat whatever it's called but this question I think articulates a pretty interesting Lee the president administration ie Trump there seems to be an insane focus on stock market levels it's my opinion that that's not healthy over time my question for you mark is will this lead to our economy is actual undoing an eventual bear market that actually lasts longer than anyone expects yeah that's that's an excellent question in the way it's phrased and some of that I'll do defer to macro guys like you but I will say this I think Trump is a evil genius I think he plays the media like the finest instrument they're they everyone hangs on every one of his words and I think he's manipulated this whole trade thing he's manipulated he's castrated the Federal Reserve to lower rates or make things easy markets it all-time highs and people are so addicted to drugs they demand the Fed ease and it's in a giant market game now I'm not a market game market guy and I frankly could care less about the market I assume the markets gonna go up every day of my adult life short stocks that aren't dependent on stock market yeah but that's gonna go out of business regardless of the market and if why our cards doing what I think they're doing the stock market's not going to matter to them like it didn't matter to Deutsche Bank either or my but what I will say with Trump is he his only chance of getting reelected and I think the chances is not very great is a very strong stock market and if he can get people to focus on the stock market if he can get people to focus on a white horse with black zebra panels painted on the horse and call it a zebra don't get reelected because everyone will focus on the stock market and Sam the greatest president of all time look at the stock market but the problem is we then turn closer and closer to more of a Banana Republic where free speech is only free if you're bullish I always say the market is like injecting a pig with LSD but this pig has been injected with a lot of LSD you just don't know which way it goes when it's when the glass is half-full right everyone likes it because they say the Fed is easy but I could easily see a scenario where they're worried about something where where people panic and it goes down but he needs a strong stock market to get reelected he needs to scare people on trade then say look how great I am doing a trade deal it's kind of like a shitty company cutting estimates for the first quarter you know we expect earnings in the 15 to 20 range down from 50 cents the stock gets killed then when they report earnings they report 25 cents and then everyone says the numbers much better than expected then the stock goes and makes a new high because it's better than expected but no one realizes how lower the bar has been in this whole Federal Reserve stuff I just defer to smarter people than me because I have to stay focused on what I do otherwise people will knock my head off but it is but you've been to your credit Keith and no one likes when you take credit and no one likes when you pat yourself on the back but you deserve a lot of credit for your gold call and your bond call because you've been done right and you've been dead right for the reason which is one of the reasons I'm appearing on this because you have my respect because even right it is hard enough but being right for the right reason is really hard and you were right for the right reason so they go I tip my hat to you so well we're coming to push it push it subscribe more at a hedge eye and get your viewing and the real vision guys as well so thanks for that I appreciate that that's it's nice to get some acknowledgement sometimes but again most of this has to do with my teammates and the process that we built and we're just you know and we're doing again when you're right for the right reasons that's important what you what you want to do it as you know in your career is actually make some mistakes and learn from them so I've obviously done made plenty of mistakes in the public sphere for everybody to see too and I'd like to think that you're being right now is a function of being wrong in the past where I learned something I think a lot of people just they're not in the business of learning they're not in the business of calling people out they're not in the business calling themselves out and that's why they don't evolve and that's why they don't get better well the truth the trick really again this is a this is a baseball thing but if you're in May and Reggie Jackson is batting 191 and you're the hitting coach or the manager you just don't tinker with them yeah you may drop them in the lineup a spot or two play you just say keep doing what you're doing because you're one of the best that's ever been and eventually it's all going to even up you'll have a great August a great September and you'll have a your typical year but what people what people tend to do in this business when you've gotten some high-profile stuff right is they wish and they bet and they troll on you to fail mm-hmm and you know you're not going to get it right all the time but you but you have to stay true to your process and you stay true to your process and given all the threats and the I take I try really hard to stay true to what I do but it's not easy it is not easy getting your ass handed to you and and and losing and and people dog in your Ford and you know I I was on a grant podcast and I told people what a great short I thought stamps.com was and I think the stock double and I have everyone ride my ass on stamps and I say look I'm sorry and no one's paid a bigger price than me right and truth be told is I lost my ass on stamps I lost my ass and the stock went from I think 120 to maybe 280 and the other day was 35 this is in the past year so it's been destroyed and then everyone says great great great you know what I'm doing what I did I'm up in my stamps trade about a Snickers bar and a Big Mac in a can of coke and I feel like it was one of my greatest accomplishments because I so buried myself in stamps right and I so buried my friends I thought that break even would never feel so good and so I think I'm gonna make a lot of money on stamps from here because I think they're in a worthless business that's a dinosaur like the payphone but man it is hard people don't understand when you speak your mind right and what standards you're held to and how many people shoot at you they don't understand how hard this really is and I don't have a business I mean I'm doing this because I don't know what else I would do other than drive my wife and kids crazy right because I don't want a business I just do this I speak from time to time but what people don't understand is it's easy to throw at people in the ring and in the squared circle but but try walking in Keith's shoes or my shoes just for five paces it is just a fish I couldn't see it any other way but it is just not easy and it is not easy doing this kind of stuff so anyway if it was nobody I mean at the end of the day it's what you said this to me right before we got into this conversation life and you said if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be so passionate to work so goddamn heart and that's that's the key you know this goes all the way and this is a vintage American Teddy Roosevelt it's the man in the arena and that's what it is exactly exactly exactly you know I'm the man in the arena with my medics and the people reaching out to me both who work there who were senior people and people who left I mean this is the true tragedy of the whole thing one lady who they leaned on who was deposed in a case she wasn't exactly mentally stable and after the deposition she actually killed herself I mean this this is stuff that that will eventually come out but they're responsible for certain people's deaths by putting so much pressure on people who knew stuff who were they were leaning on for things this lady actually killed herself did my medics killer know she was unstable to begin with but they pushed her and they pushed others over the edge I mean the average person but I mean I sent this to my wife and I loved her dearly the average person if the FBI comes by your house agents and they have guns and they don't show you per se their identification and they tell you in front of your wife that if you don't stop and we come back there'll be consequences the average wife either tells her husband immediately I'm leaving you honey if you don't stop or I'm leaving you immediately because I can't deal with this and what is wrong with you my wife and my son I know my son was sitting there you know and he has a sensitive nervous system and I had my friend over for lunch that day Billy Buckingham and it was the second last time I ever saw him so it's hard because he subsequently he shortly thereafter died you know these from the FBI go and start hassling me with these people there and it's just goddamn wrong you know it is just wrong and it's intentional and wrong which is worth it's its intentional it's premeditated it's against the law and you know in my you know people talk about PTSD you know it's a real thing you know and I try and I try real hard you know to fight through it but you know everyone you know including yourself you know there's a built-in level of paranoia you have right are my emails being half damn I being followed you know this than the other well let me tell you it's real I know I've been hacked I mean I know I've been followed I know people are out to get me it's not paranoia and in the problem is that it needs people should be who speak their mind and stuff like this need to be protected they should be given a wide berth and say thanks for doing this work I mean I was in Gretchen's morgenson's book about mortgage fraud this reckless endangerment and I just and I read parts of it for motivation you know each day you know when I get down on myself or bad things happen and it says this is uh Nova star and the government not doing anything till it was over I said it would be interesting to see who exactly dropped the ball and yka Hoda said it would be interesting why nothing was ever brought the SEC should have sent a plane for us to come to DC and how do we make sure this doesn't happen again how do we train our guys to do what you did so Joe Sixpack the investor and our entire society doesn't melt down to the center of the earth again well this is what's going on ladies and gentlemen and Keith with generic pricing this is what Lynette is doing to people this is why they hire marine Kavanagh who should be in prison for ripping people off and she's bringing the same playbook she brought at Taba Telenet this is why why our card launders money you know this is why they're our conduit to it this should be stopped or injecting poison to the best or Keith and hedge I doing what they do if they to stop you can fix it if you want to fix it but by all means don't try to grind people into oblivion just to get the price of the stock higher it brought in wall it's artificial it's fake it won't work and when it blows up the crazy thing is it blame the short sellers a short sale ban short sale ban on on financial stocks because John Mac was worried about shorts grinding their stock to the ground instead of him running a fraud and doing all sorts of he shouldn't have done it was its deflect blame Paulson Rubin right for Nike Geithner all these guys it's just it's amazing what goes on but I you know it's beyond my paygrade to fight that I'll just out fight the lowlifes who are out there well thanks in there are weights thanks for doing that I mean I think David well one one person in the queue didn't ask a question they said just thank cojones for the therapy session I needed it and a lot of people a lot of people feel the way that you do but not very many are willing and brave enough to get up on on my channel here and and say it in all of its color and detail like you did and I don't think anyone's gonna do that I mean maybe if there are other people out there that want to do what mark just did that are actually in the arena and that's the key you know in the arena you know your face is marred with dust sweat and blood you've been shot at you've been threatened you know everything that he's gone through that's that's that's the real deal there and it's not about Mark being right on every single thing or wrong on every single thing this is about actually standing up and saying this is what I think is going on and being held to account on those views which of course he is so mark I just want to thank you for that sincerely I know the the audience has as well you're one of a kind and the one who didn't I'll say and I said it on real vision the only job I'll bet I'll ever do again is I actually want to run the SEC I actually think even though I'm not a lawyer if I ran the SEC the market would actually be higher than lower because I could weed out there's so much low-hanging fruit out there to weed out it would be great to do would and it would serve and save the public from what's coming at some point in time well I think you just I think you just I think you just put it in a nice audition for that for that job you might be getting a cut that might be the next call you get from the car well actually moved to DC but but but the whole thing is is to actually make a difference I think if if if Gretchen Morgenson and Boyd and I ran Health and Human Services and Medical I think I could trim 40% of Medical Nell seasons in three weeks just by eliminating fraud but it's it's out there to do rather than a platform of shorting shit-ass companies so who knows well we my god I have to do I have to do something after this because I'm too Restless and things are too messed up out there yeah you got a lot of energy Marc you're gonna be around for a long time so yeah I have energy but my arm is my arm is very tired and some days I don't know if I'm coming or going yeah you and me both that we do have in common so thanks thanks again it was a real conversation I really appreciate it [Music] [Applause]

Channel: Hedgeye

Views: 6,169

Rating: 4.8471336 out of 5

Keywords: finance, wall street, markets, stocks, trading, macroeconomics, hedgeye, keith mccullough, bloomberg, options, day

Id: f7tkb0hE26c

Length: 69min 24sec (4164 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 26 2019