Rachel Reeves on the Future of Britain's Economy

the conversation topic for today is designed to follow on from Rachel's speech yesterday to quote James Carville is the economy stupid or uh more precisely it's how to unlock economic growth by investing in our future the plan is for Rachel and Jim to have a f side chat for about 35 40 minutes and then we'll open up to questions and I should say we're very lucky to have both our speakers here today as they're uniquely well-placed to talk about the future of the British economy are we yes I think you are so let and let me say why uh so Jim is one of the UK's foremost uh economic oracles um he is uh you have to live up to this now Jim he's famous for uh coining the bricks term back in the early 2000s long before anyone else saw that and he's as he's told me he's got that stamped on his forehead for his life now um but since then he's worked extensively in and outside and around government including as commercial sector of the treasury in 2015 15 to 16 and most recently leading the startup and scaleup review for for labor as for Rachel she's also an economic Oracle having uh cut a having cut a so you're both in for it now um she she cut a teeth at the bank of England I think her first job was uh forecasting the Japanese economy um and she's obviously always thinking a few moves ahead uh but not only is she an oracle she is an economic change maker uh and we heard yesterday she has a plan on how to rebuild Britain and to get our economic future back uh so let's hear more about that plan Jim Rachel a very warm welcome thank you for joining us over to you it is a great pleasure and thank you to the Tony Blair Institute for asking me to have this enormous privilege uh given that very kind intro I certainly suspect I should probably just find some excuse to now leave and uh because I don't know whether I can really do as you imply uh Rachel it's uh an amazing privilege to do this with you um why don't I start uh with the growth thing which even though I've not managed to be uh events where the it's been used but certainly in the way the national media is covering uh your whole approach I don't just mean you I mean the whole party and the leadership growth growth growth is coming over loud and clear and so and you and I have talked about this a bit before uh but I want to explore a bit of it if we can here to start us going um in your mission about trying to have the strongest growth in the G7 um what a bit about it if any other than it being a mission a nice Mission what bit about it really gets you going uh well thank you very much uh Jim and to Tom and um TBI for hosting this um event today um as you say Jim the uh economic mission of the next Labor government is to have the highest sustained growth with good jobs and productivity rising in all parts of the country making everyone not just a few better off and not only is that our economic Mission it is the um most important mission of all the five that we have set out because the truth is we won't be able to achieve any of the other missions whether that is making the NHS fit for the future uh uh expanding opportunity uh getting to um uh clean uh energy by 2030 unless we have a a growing economy because it is a growing economy that lifts living standards uh it is a growing economy that gives us the money to invest in public services and I feel that the missing ingredient in our economy over the last 13 years has been sustained economic growth because even with the upward revisions that we saw from the on all that gives us is low growth rather than no growth and that is not the summit of my ambition the reason that growth is exciting is it is the uh building blocks upon which everything else rests if we had have grown over these last 13 years at the same rate that we did in the 13 years before that under uh um the governments of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown then we would have had tens of billions more to spend on public services without raising a single penny of tax and we've had the opposite these last 13 years the highest tax burden in 70 years and yet Public Services you know literally crumbling in some cases so it's uh really um for me refreshing to hear how you started off by pting that out but I want to delve a bit further uh help by some very good briefing from Tom um as it turns out I can't resist making a silly little joke about this it is one of the reasons why you want to give the OB more Powers is because as it happens and I didn't realize this till Tom showed me the obr is forecasting that over the next five years the UK will have the highest GDP growth per capita of any G7 country so more substantially um would that so it could according to I presume they're not doing it based on the fact they think there's a different government coming it's just their objective forecast so job done or or what what would that if it transpired as you're going through if you are elected your first ter of office unless it's doing the other stuff I'm assuming you're saying well it actually it's it's nice that that's happening but unless other brief periods where we've had uh statistically High GDP growth per capita but it hasn't led to spreading around the country etc etc what do you think about all that well I I want that growth to be felt by people in all parts of the country and I also feel that we've missed out too much on the contributions of people in different parts of the country and the the opportunities in the next few years are quite exciting because as we do make that transition to a zero carbon economy the sorts of jobs that that uh opens up the possibility of are jobs that are going to be in uh green hydrogen and carbon capture and storage and those jobs will be in places like grouth in Mery side uh in on the Humber uh jobs in floating offshore wind in grimby and CLE thorps and the uh uh the the the the um um offshore in in in Wales um as well jobs in Giga factories in Sunderland and blly and Coventry and the great things about these jobs is they're not jobs in London and the home counties they're jobs in parts of the country that you know powered the first Industrial Revolution and can power this one as well but we can't take for granted that those jobs will come to Britain because you go to the US and you see the huge impact the inflation reduction Act is having there in galvanizing and encouraging investment and the thing about investment you know it is mobile I mean you know this better than me it goes to where the opportunities are greatest and at the moment you know sadly that is not Britain other countries are then responding to the inflation reduction act Europe is Asia is around the world you've got governments are trying to seize these opportunities and the response from British ministers um earlier this year when that inflation reduction act came in was this is dangerous well I tell you what is dangerous it's sitting on the sidelines whilst others are in a global race for the jobs and industries of the future but look the the the the point I'm trying to make is that if we win the next election through our plans to invest alongside industry in these huge opportunities then we can get that growth and prosper it in parts of the country that have missed out for too long on those opportunities uh and grow the economy that is from the bottom up in the middle out uh rather than the sort of an economic growth based only on a few people a few places a few Industries which is not the growth that I want to see and is not the sustained growth that is going to lift living standards and and that's what we need sounds like a serious Northern Powerhouse strategy to I I'll come back come back to to to aspects of that because I want to I want to delve and indeed uh some of it relates to the startup review and stuff we discuss a lot um but um just one other angle um on the the notional or the GDP Target uh and I was thinking about this and now that I'm reminded of the fact you you had the dubious privilege of studying Japan at the bank actually which I hope I suppose the bank coffers wouldn't spread you did you get to go there as part of that job or no but I moved to the US uh desk um after year and that's how I then ended up working at the British Embassy in Washington right right right um I I have my decade since I dis I don't know why I'm going on about this but I used something about going to Japan that it's still quite Japanese you know what I mean it's sort of they kind of keep you heard it here first never go off scrit I don't know why I'm what I mean is they somehow managed to retain the beauty of aspects of their culture and however and they've got very good trains very good trains there you go they don't think she's a really good chess player for nothing do they um but what I what I really wanted to raise as a results of it is uh the demographics and the population stuff so again I was just chatting it through with Tom beforehand um Japan has effectively had no nominal GDP growth for getting on for 20 years uh in the in the brick stuff uh if I remember rightly the the the stuff that started to make it famous we had uh China becoming bigger than Japan I think it was 2016 or onwards and in fact by the time it got there it was twice the size of Japan and one of Japan and and but the flip side of that which is a very uh important thing that economists think about not as much as they should is that actually if you look at GDP per capita the past 20 years Japan's had one of the best in the G7 but they've done it not deliberately it's because the working population has collapsed uh which of course with the way uh the immigration issue has become such an emotive topic here uh at times seems like some deliberate strategy for UK going forward but if you relate all of that back to the UK the past 20 years our GDP growth has been pretty close to 2% at least before coid but there was no GDP per capita growth because we had such huge population growth so how how does all of that figure into how you think about this stuff uh well I was um I was analyzing the Japanese economy when was that it was um yeah the early 2000 2000 um that I um I did that work and at that time people were talking about Japan's lost decade and here we are you know 20 years later and people do talk about Japan's lost decades uh because after that financial crash um in the 1990s Japan never really got back to the growth rates that they had seen um before that and when I was uh looking at the Japanese economy then it was at a time when they had zero interest rate um uh policy to try and stimulate growth when they used quantitative easing uh well before uh that came to uh the UK a decade later um but it took Japan a long time to get there uh and they were very you know conservative with a small scene in uh in in trying that approach which you know did you know you now have very low but at least some inflation um in in in Japan because deflation was their big problem when you have deflation people don't want to spend because they think the prices of goods will be cheaper tomorrow uh now obviously that's not a problem we have in the UK today where we've got uh you know a huge cost of living crisis with inflation too high but I did go to Japan um a few years ago when I chaired the business Select Committee in the last Parliament uh and know this issue about population growth and an aging Society uh obviously those demographic impacts in Japan have been you know really challenging uh for them uh but it has meant that you've had a much greater adoption of Technology uh than you have in other countries and I think you know robots per head of population in in Japan and in South Korea are higher than anywhere else in the world and what policy makers and Business Leaders said to me in Japan well um um necess is the mother of all invention uh because they needed the robots to make up for the lack of um um population growth but it does mean as you say that productivity in Japan is pretty high we went to this fascinating place when we were there which was a a factory making robots but it was robots making robots uh it was it was really quite something um but th that use of Technology is quite exciting in countries um like Japan and I think we do have a lot to learn from it because our productivity growth has been very poor um in Britain and actually Rising population growth from immigration has I think sometimes exacerbated the slow takeup of Technology uh in the UK economy because you know you could hire workers pretty cheaply uh rather than invest in the expensive but in the end productivity enhancing technology so I think there there are real opportunities in in the years ahead to get some of that productivity growth through um the use of technology so let's uh put Japan aside for now and come back to these issues and much of what you talked about yesterday um I was delighted to observe because I couldn't get there in time uh that you highlighted ambition to also get investment spending back to the I think the G7 average and our historic uh average which as you know I've said to you privately um if the GDP per capita ambition is anything beyond a statistical thing you can't get there really unless investment spending uh does what you said yesterday yeah I mean business investment is the lifeblood of any successful economy but it has fallen back Fallen back compared with our historical average average but also Fallen back compared with our uh peers and our R&D spending as well uh is not as high as our competitors and uh you know in the end you know that is not the basis for a successful economy and we've done a lot of work together haven't we on how we can get Britain to be the best place to start and scale up businesses and we've got we're really really good we shouldn't be you know negative about everything because there are some fantastic things um uh going on and there are brilliant entrepreneurs great ideas coming out of our universities but the the big challenge is getting the funding for those businesses and often we lose uh successful um unicorn fast growing businesses to the US because that's where they're able to access the long-term capital to grow their businesses and one of the things that you know Jim and I have have worked on is how for example we can unlock uh some of the money invested in pensions we've got the uh second biggest in the world um assets under management in pensions in the UK uh and yet you know increasingly that money is invested in government bonds rather than in productive capital and we want to change that uh and investment into unlisted equities uh the spin out companies that we are developing and nurturing but not growing at the the speed and the scale we want to see and where we're too often losing them to the US uh we want to both help get higher returns for Savers but also unlock some of that Capital to uh to to help those those those that thriving part of the economy and you're doing a lot of that with Northern gritstone with three Northern universities which is really exciting but it does need to happen at greater scale it certainly does um I want to explore uh many bits of that and I'm already looking at my watch because uh I'm going to save 20 minutes for you guys um uh you didn't mention it yet but it now teas me up for that because it it also potentially relates to some of the other issues including industrial strategy uh one of the things that really excited me about your mission statement is that it seems to have uh fallen in line with one of our biggest recommendations which is trying to make the British Business Bank a lot more aspirational and uh bit might what you might call a British version of TASC if people in business here are familiar with what they do uh for Singapore in that it really plays rather than a for those of you not familiar with it the British business bank has an arm which is the largest passive investor uh in venture capital in the country however it sort of does it in a very uh gentle Civil Service sorry guys at the BBB kind of away um um as opposed to being given because it is owned by the taxpayer uh here's what we want to do more of and we're expecting you to be more on the front foot about it that's how I've interpreted it myself maybe it's because I want it to be what you guys would do what what do you think about that yeah we looked as part of your review into some of the best practice happening overseas uh and one of the things that president macron has done in France is is to really try and turbocharge investment into fast growing uh businesses and it's quite exciting the the TB scheme that uh that they've set up there is trying to do what we want to do in the UK which is to try and get more institutional Capital invested in um uh startup businesses and scale up businesses and they've done it through creating a sort of fund which Venture Capital can invest into of um sort of handpicked a bit like what you know we would like the British Business Bank to do uh uh businesses that have got real opportunities and you know some of them will succeed and some of them won't but it's a fund in which Venture Capital uh and uh institutional investors can invest into uh which can help deliver better returns for Savers but also unlock the capital that if you don't unlock at home businesses will go overseas and we've already you arm Holdings is obviously the uh uh the most famous example of the loss of a UK business to the US Stock Market but we see businesses that are already listed in the UK um delisting and relisting in the US uh you're seeing businesses that uh start up here uh listing straight on uh the the US uh uh indices rather than here in the UK because that is where they're able to raise their money and if we lose those businesses in the end we'll probably end up losing those jobs and losing those investments in the UK and you know I really want to see those jobs and those investments in Britain but at the moment we are missing out on too much of that so there are exciting TASC is one example the TB scheme in France is another good you know everyone else is sort of going further and faster whether it is in getting the the the jobs in the industries in the net zero presents or whether it is unlocking investment in some of these fast growing uh uh Tech business business is uh and there's so much more we could be doing and I I feel you hungry to get on and actually start delivering some of these best practices um to the broader investment Point um on a cynic would say well again who who wouldn't want to get investment spending to that share of GDP if I can split it out a bit to uh public and private not least um because as you well know what's coming on the public side side uh I think we need to have and you I think you've created the space for it there I say uh a more really cred at the same time really financially Market credible but a more ambitious uh approach to uh fiscal rules um because how else can the biggest patient Capital investor in existence which is the government be at the center of that unless it unless it does and I'm not maybe some of this get end up going a bit geekish I don't know I apologies but um you might want to uh expand on what I thought was really exciting when you announced it three weeks ago about the increased importance to the ob and what you would do with it not least because quite amusing for me given my past and for the politics of it uh none other than George Osborne came out within seconds saying that the Tory party should adopt that immediately uh yes well it was very uh good at the labor party conference yesterday that the obr got a huge round of applause I think if the OB was mentioned at the Tory conference it would be booed uh so that's funny yeah um yes I said that I wanted to give greater powers to the ob and the conference all loved it uh so yeah exactly so you know look obviously the reason the economy crashed last year when Liz TR and Tor party did that mini budget was because they had uncosted um tax cuts uh which just didn't add up but there was another reason as well and that was the undermining of The Economic Institutions that give stability to the UK economy so we had a whole summer last year that LZ tras Kazi quaten and Jake of rmog were just undermining the bank of England and their independence and blaming them for the problems you then had quazi quing refusing to allow the office of budget responsibility to do a forecast to accompany the so-called mini budget despite the fact I think it was the biggest fiscal event for decades uh and then third mindboggling y um and then third you had the sacking of the very respected permanent Secretary of the Treasury Tom scholar and those three things along with the the sheer scale of the unfunded tax cuts uh C cus the market meltdown that we experienced um this time just over um a a year ago so what I've said is that you know the last Labor government gave operational Independence to the bank of England George Osborne created the uh office for Budget responsibility in in 2010 and we would give the office for Budget responsibility uh um additional Powers we call it a new Charter for Budget responsibility and a fiscal lock which says that when there are permanent and significant tax and spending uh changes the office of budget responsibility should provide a forecast alongside uh those and I mean that should be sort of quite uh uncontroversial uh but you had uh Liz truss herself uh then uh wrote for the the mail on Sunday after that announcement saying that this was just putting more handang yeah more powers in the hands of unelected uh uh uh quango so uh if anyone was in any doubt of whether my policy was a good one could read The Daily Mail to find out exactly how good it is uh so it it was great to have that thanks Liz um have you ever had a glass of wine with Liz in the in one of the commons bars no I haven't maybe I should buy a one um but no I and I think it is I do take seriously the independence of those economic instit tions they have provided a framework for for the UK that has um you know given us lower borrowing costs because of that uh that stability but you know there is now uh I think some people call it the uh premium uh that it it it costs more for governments to borrow in the UK than in other countries around the world because of the damage that they did last year and that's why I will put in this new fiscal lock so that never again can a prime minister or Chancellor try and force through policies that are uh un costed unscrutinized and in that case wholly detached from economic reality I'm there you go thank you I am a crossbencher here so I have to be a little bit careful but I just want to say my view that would be a very good thing for brsh plz anyhow uh there's three other areas I want to explore uh but link to some of that um and related to your industrial strategy um what about uh the other part the uh infrastructure Bank um I think uh it was interpreted uh out of the mission statement actually also casually by me but I never thought about it much that that would become some kind of real Tac in terms of a a sovereign wealth fund um and what about uh the role that you would expect or want from them to play in helping guide I'm talking with yurgen about it earlier about uh you know a proper connected industrial strategy that allows all the support businesses to plan for a period as opposed to the rather intriguing games going on around hs2 blah blah blah blah blah what about yeah so I I announced uh two separate reviews uh yesterday in my conference speech um one that will be led by our shadow transport secretary Louise hag which will uh look at the lessons that we can learn from hs2 and I think Lou will be speaking more about that in her speech um this afternoon because you know what is really frustrating it took it getting to the stage where hs2 was 30 billion pounds over budget uh before the Prime Minister uh decided to step in and it should never have been allowed to get to that stage you know if I had have been in in the treasury I would have had the bosses in at hs2 to work out what could be done to get this project under control this the sort of thing you in your framework you would say right obr you guys do an analysis and show it transparently publicly what are the right what is the real story I'm not sure if that's a role for the obr um but it is a role for you know the treasury to make sure that projects are uh on time on budget and delivered and the problem is is there is a pattern opening up here because hs2 is not the only um big project in in Jeopardy and so we've asked Lou to do this review and I know that she's going to be announcing some of the people involved in that uh this afternoon uh and Darren Jones the uh new Shadow Chief secretary to the treasury will do a wider review at other infrastructure projects so that I I hope um um after the next election if we are in those jobs in government uh we know what we're going to be uh um facing as an incoming government and we can get those projects on track because you know we are I think I said in the conference speech yesterday we become the sick man of Europe when it comes to uh the delivery of projects and it is just not good good enough it is not right that it costs so much to build a kilometer of rail track in the UK compared with our competitors we should be able to do this stuff um you know the first train uh the Stockton to Darlington Railway was built in England we should be able to be able deliver these projects but we seem to have lost that Knack and that's why Lou and Darren are going to do these reviews for us I've got two other areas uh and I want to try and get it done within 10 minutes um and they're both big subjects and there's many other things obviously we we could talk about but um uh by coincidence um The Economist magazine this week has quite a detailed discussion about uh the Biden Ira um and I think secure secur inomics gets quite a mention and not surprisingly given the economists uh approach to life they are hugely critical of of it being a really effective long-term strategy for the West um I want to ask you about how you respond to that kind of view and and with it not least cuz you and I also been chatting about in the last week uh whether it's related to it or not there is a rather spectacular rise in 10year us bonal going on uh which is influencing bond yields all over the world uh and some people are saying that some of that is is what what Financial economists would describe as uh an additional term premium for the for the longer term risk that all all that uh Ira stuff is creating in the US and therefore it's a warning sign of you want to be careful about what it is you're going to promise Because unless it is creating productivity enhancing stuff you're going to end up with a colossal mess uh well look it seems to me that the inflation reduction Act and the chips act have been a GameChanger in terms of galvanizing private sector investment and you know since the beginning of this year businesses have been saying to me that looking at where to invest it is a no-brainer often that if you go to the US you've got these huge subsidies uh and support for investment in some of these uh fast growing Industries uh and a lot of these Investments would not happen unless you have a partnership approach you take carbon capture and storage you know there are huge opportunities in in the UK but we haven't got anything happening at scale and you only will through a public private partnership is a new technology the drisking that government can bring uh but also the coordination uh between the projects and to actually be able to store the uh the the carbon um in in the North Sea is going to require government being part of that and is also totally clear that you can only achieve our Net Zero Ambitions in the UK with carbon capture and storage uh you can only um get cement and Ceramics and steel to uh Net Zero if you can have car carbon capture and storage but at the moment because of the investment that the US is putting in that is where uh the jobs and the uh private sector investment is going and I just don't want to find that in you know 10 20 years time that we're importing all of our cars because we failed to build the gigafactories here we're importing our electricity because we failed to go far enough we are importing our gas because we didn't do green hydrogen uh here you know there's every reason to believe because of our great universities our industrial Heritage our geography the skill set in Britain that we can be leaders in these jobs but it won't happen by chance it will only happen through this partnership approach that you're seeing everywhere uh else and um you know I just think that the game has Chang changed and we're just not in the race at the moment and I think that is a massive missed opportunity uh last one for me for now um K and you have talked a lot and a lot more recently about improving relationships with the EU um a cynic might say what is in it for the EU to do that unless we actually want to rejoin the single Market well Kia uh and me and the whole labor team being clear that labor will not rejoin the single Market the Customs Union or bring back freedom of movement uh you know we had that referendum it's more than seven years ago um uh now um uh so exhausting just because we accept that brexit has happened does not mean that we think that the deal that Boris Johnson got uh was as good as it can be and there are a number of areas where um we want to see change so for example uh we want a food and farming agreement a Veterinary deal uh to uh improve the flow not just of food food and farming products but to reduce some of the other um uh uh delays and bureaucracy we're seeing um at the border uh because Britain is a leader in um professional and business services we want to secure the mutual recognition of professional qualific ations which we had before brexit uh but we don't have today and because we're so um you know we excel in Creative Industries uh we want to secure uh um to make it easier for British artists to be able to tour around Europe without the costs and bureaucracy that is available today those are just three areas uh where we would like to um see um change um you know we'll get into those negotiations uh in government but as Kia has said a labor government does not want to water down standards for workers rights environmental standards and food standards and so we hope that um um it will be easier for a labor government to secure a deal but you know I'm not naive about the scale of of those uh challenges and the uh difficulty of those negotiations but I hope that the European Union will see with a labor government uh a desire to normalize relations to uh work in Greater partnership uh based on the shared values and the things that do bind us together uh but it won't be easy but it is an ambition that we have okay for now uh I'm going to come to you guys and I'm going to look so hang on uh in for respect for the hosts uh I'm going to actually uh ask Tom uh to ask a question and then I'm going to we're done with that I'm going to come to the audience if I can and ask you in groups of three but before we start please short question and not some philosophical statement of your views on the planet Tom thank you Jim thank you Rachel uh riting discussion so um my my question is about your fiscal instincts so some chancellors are unlucky they inherit quite a dire fiscal situation slow growth um that sounds familiar uh but some chances are lucky they they get a unexpected windfall say something like the North Sea in their 70s and 80s and so whil it's clear that Britain is currently down in its luck it's not entirely implausible to imagine a a situation where we do get a sort of pick up in growth perhaps from technology so so my question is uh if labor were to get elected and they were to sort of receive an unexpected winfall say of a 100 billion pounds 4% of GDP something like that H how would you spend it would you would you would you cut the debt would you cut taxes would you increase spending on your green Prosperity plan your new National wealth fund would you boost the NHS uh or would you do something different that you can't currently do I didn't know he was going to ask this because of the fiscal situation uh I always say to my colleagues that they're not allowed to make unfunded spending commitments so going to sit here and speculate um um but look I I set of fiscal rules which is that we will pay to for day-to-day spending through tax receipts that we will get debt down as a share of our economy and then subject to that we will invest in those things that will boost the long-term uh potential of our economy um but boosting the potential of the economy is not just about uh spending more money it is also about the planning reforms to FASTT track the infrastructure investment that we need whether that being in 5G or transport uh uh energy or science labs uh uh a St that I didn't use in in the speech but um that I was looking at last week was that um three quarters of the planning applications for um uh new science labs uh around Oxford and Cambridge are just stuck in limbo uh and this is just just another example of how Britain will lose out on jobs and investment if we can't have a planning system that actually allows the builders to build um if projects are not even um being looked at because they not in the National plan for significant projects so it's not just about spending uh to get our economy growing there are other things that we can do as well that I hope then we'll see um um uh uh the economy growing creating those tax receipts that then gives me as Chancellor options that we don't have today because I am under no Illusions about the scale of the challenge that I will face if labor wins the next election but I think we have set out now and you'll see uh today more in in Kia's speech uh how exactly we are going to fulfill that mission to have the highest sustained growth in the G7 okay uh there you go uh maybe I should just go to pick on people that have not raised the hand uh and I'm going to Jurgen because he my vice chair of the northern Powerhouse partnership you're one of the first three there's a lady up at the back with a white top on uh who's got a hand up and assume there endless flying around uh and there's a guy on the right hand side who's sitting on the stairs start with you question please punchi unless it's about getting rid of the glazes at Manchester United no statements on life J first uh thank you um I mean you you talked about it which is that it's definitely not just about GDP growth it's about the quality of that it's about productivity business investment it's about exports um and a lot of that is is not in the unicorns it's nice to get the Investments for gigafactories a lot of it is about the small to mediumsized companies which are in those Supply chains so the question is if you can talk a little bit more about you know the sorts of interventions you would do a private public partnership with to help those smaller companies adopt technology use more Innovation and look we have got some great mechanisms we've created like catapults made smarter all of these things none of it hangs together so you know what would you do uh to help the mediumsized sector and put some of that 100 billion into into helping those companies hold that one uh the lady I went to at the back uh thanks very much um labor has uh done a lot to sort of free brand and present a good pitch to businesses but how does that work with the radical new deal for workers that promises to scrap um s hour contracts and provide a genuine living wage and the guy on the who's now stood up Charlie Jeffrey Vice Chancellor University of York and chair of the golden OCT my eyesight is Dreadful sorry chair of the golden octagon of uh research universities in the north great to hear you Rachel talk about uh the importance of our universities great to hear uh Peter Kyle uh yesterday talking about certainty of planning of research and Innovation funding great to hear the passion that Bridget philipson is bringing to the skills debate what we've seen under this government is a complete dis location of those two things the research and Innovation and the skills we need them together how could you help there you go I think there's some relationship broadly those three questions um yeah thank you very much um all three of you for those questions um yeah joggen you're absolutely right to talk about the supply Chains It's not just the uh um the big businesses I mean actually and Charlie mentioned there um uh Bridget just one thing which I've been very struck by when I was um in the West Midlands uh recently talking to uh some car manufacturers but also the supply chain that sits um behind that and the transition that we need to see towards uh electric vehicles um one business uh told me about how the apprenticeship Levy today just does not help them at all because um if they wanted to Res skill people um working in production lines to produce cars with an internal combustion engine they wouldn't be use able to use the apprenticeship Levy to retrain them but if they sacked them all and bought in a new lot of people they could use the apprenticeship Levy to train them up to produce electric vehicles that makes no sense at all it needs to be a just transition towards net zero and that means using the skills the highly skilled workers that we have today working in car manufacturing or in oil and gas ensuring that they've got the skills then to do the similar but different jobs in the new ways of of of producing whether that's energy or cars or whatever uh so the supply chain is really important but for the supply chain skills uh uh and for those smaller businesses skills is absolutely essential and we want to reform that apprenticeship Levy turn it into a growth and skills Levy uh something that again I think K will be talking about more today and Bridget's spoken about very um passionately uh on on the question thank you on the question uh on the question about um workers rights look labor is a proudly Pro worker party uh it is how we're created it's in our DNA but we are also a proudly Pro business party because you can't be Pro worker unless you're Pro the businesses that create the jobs and the wealth and prosperity uh and also you can't be uh Pro um uh um uh business unless you are pro Skilling up in the way that I've spoken about uh working people to do the jobs of the future so I see those two things as two sides of the same coin um but uh the secure nomics that I speak about is about giving working people greater security uh the um philosophy the philosophy of of the labor party that growth comes from the bottom up and the middle out that uh everybody should be able to play their part but then also that everyone should be able to benefit from that growth and prosperity including through security at work uh higher wages uh through a real living wage is part of that but also that security that comes from knowing that you've got a permanent secure job and then you know what hours you're going to have this week and the week after and there's now a mountain of evidence that uh greater security at work uh and better wages uh leads to a more motivated and a more productive uh Workforce and the best businesses around the UK and around the world know all of uh this and so building on what the last Labor government did with the first ever introduction of a national minimum wage we would go further and turn that into a real living wage but also yes Banning the Zero Hour contracts getting rid of fire and rehire which goes against I think the principles of fairness and decency that uh that British people and British businesses um uh have so the New Deal for working people is not somehow separate to our growth plans it is an essential part of our plans to to to grow the econ eony and give security for uh working people and and then just on on Charlie's point you know this our universities are huge assets we have some of the best universities in the world uh in Britain uh and we should be really proud of that but also take advantage of that as an engine for growth uh and you know Joga mentioned the Catapult centers the collaboration that we see between our universities and our business sector Kia and I went on um Sunday to the University of Liverpool to see really exciting work that they're doing on the sort of uh the sort of cusp between Robotics and chemistry with unver uh a Great British uh company uh and and you see that at every University you go to Rand the UK and also some of the work that universities do with some of the smaller businesses to help them access uh technology uh and and knowledge transfer that they wouldn't be able to on their own so I see universities again as a a key ingredient uh and for our growth plan but also something special that we have in the UK that uh other countries can't always compete with us on okay let's go more oh my God uh I'm trying to be fair uh there's a lady here in a black top yes your first um uh also geographically a guy over there who's got a blue shirt on on a gray suit uh why is there so many here uh this guy with the Newcastle United type looking shirt on which is nothing like a it's black and white you three next sorry first Unice Simmons University of Chester um we've worked with two and a half thousand smmes in the last couple of years so we're very aware of of that agenda but also Northwest business leadership team I'm representing and I want to know what's the economic framework you're going to use to make sure all the regions feel this economic uplift we've had rdas we've had leps we've had Mayors but there's a lot of the Northwest which is not even in the mayoral areas so how are you going to make sure we all feel the benefits okay that's the first one uh where's the G second go yes please Paul swiy from the center for cities when you were talking about uh productivity and immigration it seemed like you're suggesting that the immigration of recent years had pushed down productivity growth in the UK but I was probably misinterpreting that so I just want to know you could expand on that a little bit please good question Paul and thirdly my name is Mark I'm a member from dunde um I accept government cannot and should not do everything um and that there have been comparisons between your plan and and President Biden's but there's a big difference in the language he uses in terms of taxing wealth and the money that has been put into uh directly investing in uh green energy uh whereas obviously these are things that you have either kind of ruled out or kind of scaled back slightly within your fiscal rules so I just wonder what is the direct comparison you would make between secure onomics and biomics uh okay nice easy questions uh okay um thank for your question from the University of of Chester um the end of last year we published a review that Gordon Brown did for um Kia on um uh Devolution and uh how we could have more decisions made at a local uh level and that's not just for areas that have uh Mayors but uh Mayors will be a crucial part in delivering the uh the growth agenda uh for an incoming labor government but also recognizing that not all parts of the country um have those uh Mayors and as I said in my answer to Charlie I think universities have got a really important role to play uh in this agenda um on on Paul's uh question the only point I would make uh is that uh a low skill economy uh is not one that is going to generate growth and prosperity and investment uh which has fallen in the last decade uh or so uh need we need to turn that around uh with more investment in uh uh uh uh technology uh more investment in skills so that we can compete globally in for the high pay high skill jobs that we want to see uh in the in the UK um on on the third question which uh sort of feels like a a a sort of a PhD thesis uh when I became Shadow Chancellor I said that there was a lot to learn from what the Democrats are doing in the US I had the opportunity to meet Janet yelen um earlier this year the US Treasury secretary who's driving so much of this uh agenda and I think there are a number of similarities obviously Labor's green Prosperity plan is uh uh our answer to the uh inflation reduction act but also um our positioning of it so of of course I think that we've got a moral responsibility to meet our Net Zero uh targets you know you can take that as as a given but I see here and i' you know try to expand on this in in other answers as well as a huge opportunity to create the high skill jobs in some of the industries of the the the future and jobs that are in parts of the country that want and need that reindustrialization and those High pay high skill uh jobs it's also about reducing bills uh because uh uh either through retrofitting homes or investing in uh uh cleaner electricity which is cheaper uh than than gas and fossil fuels we can help people reduce people's bills for good but also and this is something that I very much took from my conversations uh in the US not just with Janet yelen but also with uh uh the National Security Council uh there um that security is absolutely essential I said in the speech yesterday that this idea that the fastest the cheapest the quickest is always the best I I think that idea is dead and I think globalization as we once knew it is dead but there is a new o um but there is a new walk out uh as we once knew it is dead but there is a new form of multilateralism I told you like it's like a viver now on the PHD um but there's a new good job we've got 10 minutes left I tell you the conference floor are better behaved than Jim O'Neal uh um a new multilateralism between countries that share values uh and new Partnerships developing uh but we've got to wean ourselves off oil and gas the the price is driven by what is happening in Russia in the Middle East uh and we need to do more to make do and sell here in Britain to secure our national economy uh to help secure family finances so it's not just the industrial strategy but it is also this philosophy uh that I take from what President Biden and janit Yellen are doing trying to uh uh inject more security into their National economy okay two more quick rounds and actually no more hands can go you won't get us um Mid either guess I'm talking uh and then a guy sitting on the floor the left of the top uh and jump hereen um please say who you are uh as well I hope hi Rachel um I'm a young person from Green New Deal Rising you're talking about investing in our future today um but we want to know if labor will tax wealth and invest in a green New Deal to tackle both the cost of living crisis and the climate crisis tax on wealth could generate billions that could feed families fund public services and put young people first will labor be bold and commit to ATT tax wealth now we had that question once already but there you go uh gentleman sitting on the floor on the left not a gentleman I think you need to invest in some new GL J but thank you oh my God uh yeah thank you Joe migan oh my I am very sorry Joe Milligan from Liberty Steel um very encouraged to hear um uh some of your announcements yesterday Rachel about investment in uh critical infrastructure and strategic Industries um obviously you can't have energy Independence uh as Ed announced uh uh in his speech yesterday an energy Independence fact without actually having independent uh secure Supply chains for materials like steel everything in energy transition requires still um energy uh has obviously uh benefited from over the last couple of decades investment shared investment uh into the transition um very encouraged again about uh the the language around partnership between government and Industry when it comes to materials like steel why you be looking at mechanisms similar to contracts for difference which was a you know a government industry partnership in in uh decarbonizing energy for decarbonizing industry and the key Supply chains that exist okay and the third one uh Christian mole Brumley and chisel her CP um Rich most recent rumbly in chiseler CP Rachel's old stomping ground your backyard you're obviously big mates yeah this was on my first ever election Lea we we only exist for another two days sadly um uh richy Sak's most recent tax return showed he paid at 21% income on three tax on three million of income investment inome not going to be asking Rachel about taxes are you uh I'm kind of sorry about that um and growth in capital assets is way out stripping growth in payroll now I now you've ruled out a wealth tax but do you agree this a disparity that needs to be looked at okay uh questions get easier as it goes on doesn't it uh well maybe I'll take Christian's question with the um the young woman from um the green New Deal uh Rising I I've committed to investing in the big opportunities that come from the climate transition and as I said in the answer to the uh uh um earlier question um as as well you know you can take as given our commitment to uh to getting to Net Zero and the clean energy uh by 2030 which Ed spoke about in his conference speech yesterday and it's one of the five missions for an incoming labor government um very different from the short-termist approach that you see from the conservative government which is uh uh pushing back its commitments uh even though they're not even on target to meet the ones that they've uh got today and we've said for example that we do want to see um uh all cars sold in the UK by 2030 to be electric uh um vehicles uh unlike the government pushing back uh that Target uh but we've set out how we will pay for that it is part of the green Prosperity plan including the creation of energy uh and the national wealth fund to invest alongside um uh business in the industries of the future including uh steel which as you uh uh rightly say from Liberty Steel is is absolutely essential for an industrial strategy uh but also for a NetZero strategy uh as well and that commitment as well around green hydrogen about carbon capture and storage uh and about the investment in the uh electric steel arcs uh that that we want to see uh in our our Steel industry uh and supporting jobs therefore in Port Tober scorp Sheffield and and other parts of uh the country but we would do that through uh the green Prosperity plan not through uh wealth taxes you know taxes in Britain are at a 70-year high already today uh uh um I I we've already set out how for example on the capital gains that for private Equity that bonuses will be treated as income rather than as uh capital gains will be taxed accordingly but um we don't plan a wholesale uh Equalization of capital gains and uh and income tax rates uh because when we did our review into how to make Britain the best place to start and scale up a a business we think it is important to uh create the incentives to invest in uh in in in in UK businesses to help create businesses to help grow uh businesses and to have uh uh preferential tax treatment uh in in doing that but you know we're confident that we can get to our commitments on Net Zero through the green Prosperity plan uh with that big role for government to invest alongside business and to invest directly through uh GB energy in steel in green hydrogen in Ceramics uh in uh carbon capture in floating offshore wind in tidal energy and renewable ready ports you know all of these things that we can and we should be doing in the UK that you're not getting with a conservative government that we are determined to deliver as a labor government brilliant uh three more that's it I'm afraid as a there's a person there's a lady I can see right in the middle at the back with a hand up you're first this guy here and apologies to everybody else I'm getting guided to do one over here somewhere this guy here then I'm I apologies to everybody else uh we're running out of time three last questions short and Cris please hi I'm Andre go on go on go on Andrey Market we can't enable I'm interested in how you perform Regulators to make of Socials but also enabling okay the lady in the middle at the but thanks I'm Miranda Barker I'm the chief executive East lanks Chamber of Commerce and uh we see the value of death with our local low carbon Tech firms exactly between the funding for catapults and inovate UK and then when you get British business B Bank funding the bit where you're literally trying to build your first product and generate your first jobs can we please see if we can link some of the investment and support from you directly to creating new jobs and a quick followup are you coming to cop 28 and can we introduce you to some low carbon Tech firms if you are okay and then last question okay um I'm a retired independent school teacher from Hull now to avoid being lynched I will say that I do agree in taxing the uh the privilege to help the underprivileged but I want to know how well you've done your math homework you should get2 million in V from my old school if 10% of the kids leave and you have to pay for their state school places that drops to 1 million and the this is an ex existentialist threat for lots of Northern dependent schools if it closes you're going to have to find £8 million for those state for those kids to go into state school so how well have you done your maths to ensure that it's not scenario 3 wow what what a toughy to finish on luckily we only got two minutes left uh right okay um so on um uh Andrew's question about um Regulators um we discussed this quite a lot yesterday actually the the business business day uh uh conference and one of the things that you'll know from uh uh from Kia and the mission Le government is that we cannot allow governments and Regulators to work in silos anymore if we're going to deliver on those five missions uh we need government working together as well as working with all of the other enablers to get to those uh to achieve those uh missions and it's one of the things that we're going to be looking at through the you know not complacent but preparation for government work uh that we'll be doing over the next year and very much thinking about how The Regulators fit in to help um achieve some of those missions so thank you for raising uh that point uh you make a really important point and it's a sort of um both part of the green Prosperity plan but also very much the work that Jim and I did on how to uh help those businesses at the stage that you rightly identify um that they can access capital and the role of the British Business Bank uh the role of uh a pension fund investment and institu U investment is is really crucial but it's about how to coordinate that and we recognize as well through the review that we did that if you are a a a woman entrepreneur if you are outside of London and the southeast if you are from a a a black or minority ethnic background access to finance is even harder uh um for for for those Business Leaders so um we've done a lot of work on this but we absolutely want to make sure that businesses at that stage uh whether they are in green Industries or any Industries can access the capital that they need uh to to grow and uh thanks for raising the issue about uh VAT on uh private schools well don't take my word for it the institute for fiscal studies looked at our proposals and uh con looked at the uh the elasticities of demand for private schools and concluded that our policy would raise between 1.3 and 1.5 billion pounds even when you take into account the decisions that parents made uh but we will use every penny of that money to invest in our state schools in 6,400 new teachers in retaining teachers that we already have in the state sector and also mental health hubs in every secondary school and that is the difference that that money will make to the education of the 93% of children who are in our state schools today who are not getting a nearly good enough deal under this conservative government okay uh Rachel what a absolute Delight for me to have done this with you and thank you to the audience uh and best wishes to [Music] [Applause] [Music] you

Channel: Tony Blair Institute for Global Change

Views: 3,131

Keywords: Tony;, Blair;, Institute;, Foundation;, TBI;

Id: lvZOLpB7Y2A

Length: 65min 50sec (3950 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 13 2023