Rabbi Dr Akiva Tatz - Moral dilemmas in everyday life: How do we decide?

okay so greeting is again thank you again for this opportunity to learn some Torah together and what I'd like to do with your permission is explore the subject of moral knowledge how do we know what's right and wrong and I'd like to show you that there's some surprising angles to this which I think should be particularly meaningful to South Africans I hope and some of it quite surprising I think so the question is how do we know what's right and wrong not only academic subject also in terms of teaching children what is it that kids need to get in touch with in terms of their conscience and ability to solve moral dilemmas and to chart a course through life that is truly moral truly religious if you like in the deeper sense is that okay can we do that now I'm going to try a little experiment here and see if I can walk around and if you can still hear me so let's do it like this in 1967 a very interesting lady philosopher in England called Philippa foot published an article in a philosophy journal about a the curstyn happened to be a question of abortion you probably remember at the time that was a very vexed time in terms of women's rights rights to their body the abortion law has been changed in many countries particularly United States and so she wrote an article about the morality of abortion in terms of the fetus life the mother's life and in the course of that article just gonna wait a second till they close the doors okay thanks for that drumroll amazing okay in the course of that article she [Music] suggested a vignette or a moral dilemma situation which has become a classic in this field very very interesting very amazing and I'll tell you what she said she said imagine that you are standing at the side of a train track actually a trolley line is what she said so can hear me is that good okay so here's what she hears they just to make it graphic I'm gonna ask the camera to pick up what I'm doing okay she said imagine you are standing next to a trolley line I don't know if you know that I'm an extremely accomplished artist did you know that yeah okay here is your trolley [Applause] okay Choi's coming down the line and they are unfortunately five people here on the track okay and the trolleys coming down the line and it's gonna kill five people you are standing here at the side of the track actually in the original article you she had you as the driver of the train but you'll see that that actually causes added complications and so other thinkers and since that dates to now have suggested modifications of this drawing in fact the one that's commonly used now is this picture set up by a lady Jewish philosopher at MIT by the name of Judith Thompson Judith Chavez Thompson so I'm giving you a slightly modified version of the scenario but that's the situation you're not driving the train you standing next to the train track you're a completely uninvolved bystander and you see these fat people about to get killed it just so happens that there's a side track which looks like this and there's a set of points here which you can activate if you pull a lever you divert the train and it will or the trolley and will move onto the side track unfortunately is one person here on the side track okay and that's your problem your problem is do you do nothing and watch five people die do you are you completely uninvolved you've got no responsibility here this got nothing to do with you the situation but you see what's going on you can do nothing and watch five people die you can pull the points divert at the train and have one person die are we clear about the problem okay if you would divert the Train please raise your hand okay I think that's about 90% or more probably right okay so you're in very good company because about 95% of people tested or surveyed would divert the train in fact if you go online you can see that Harvard University has a website called moral choices where tens of thousands of people have actually made these choices and ninety forty nine ninety five percent of Westerners make that choice culture makes a difference Asian people tend to value community of individual Americans tend to value individual over community there are cultural differences but despite that about 95 percent of Westerners will divert the Train okay so you're in good company how about this what's that great picture huh okay here's a train line trolley line by the way in modern philosophy that's now known as trolley ology trolley ology here's your trolley coming down the line okay there's five people on the track okay and the Train is gonna go down this line and wipe out five people standing on the bridge is a large man okay there's a great book about this it's called would you kill the fat man by philosophically edmonds this fellow standing on the bridge you're a scrawny individual you're jumping on the track will do nothing this fellow's big enough that if you just push him over the edge you'll fall on the track is gonna get smooshed but it's gonna stop the train he'll get killed but five people will be saved all you need to do is push him off if you push him off the bridge raise your hand no dude only did you say you do it you'd also do okay to people in this whole hole would push the man off the bridge listen carefully what's the moral difference between the situations in this case you all agreed in this case you agreed that you would kill one man to save five in this case except for you two strange individuals you said that you would not kill one to save five what's the difference so you would hear you would not hear you would divert the Train just one second here you would divert the Train right yes and in this case you would push him off the bridge okay but you you're unusual you're very unusual there's this 2,000 people you wouldn't do it okay we'll come we'll deal with you later okay but one second I'm saying but and you're right okay so virtually everybody here agrees they would not push the man off but if you analyze situation you'll see this in this case you are killing a person to save five and in this case you're killing a person to save five in this case you're killing a person by bringing a train to a man to kill him to save five in this case you're killing a man by bringing a man to a train to kill him that's only difference in this case you bring the man to the Train and he dies in this case you bring the train to the man and he dies but in both cases you killing one to save five how come 95% of people would do that and almost nobody would do that what's the difference oh because you have to pull it okay well okay one second okay okay so what these people are saying is because here you have to get your hands dirty with murder but you didn't notice then I have a little lever right there and it's attached to a trapdoor which is in the bridge and all you got to do is pull a thing the trapdoor opens and he's ever so gently lowered onto the track where the train kills him okay so they are equally they're equally indirect equally indirect is not pushing all you gotta do is take in action in one case a person dies to save five people by putting him by putting the train in his direction in this case you put him in the direction of the Train what's the moral difference now I'm challenging you what would you say anyone what's the difference okay so here we have two people at least saying there's no moral difference so here's the question why did 95% of people up for this and almost no one opts for this if there's no moral difference no no I gave you exactly the same indirect involve both cases you're pulling a lever that's all you do that's all you do okay watch this here we have something very interesting to note here we see that when I asked you for your for your response here the hands went up within three or four seconds I think the last person to put his head up took about five seconds to say that that word divert the Train and here I asked you what to do nobody opts for that except for these two weirdoes but I mean but here's the first observations it took you no more than a few seconds to respond to these two cases you were very clear that there's a moral difference between them and when I ask you why you don't learn that's amazing that shows that your moral response is not logical and not calculated it's coming from someplace completely completely different it's coming from a gut that's an amazing that's an amazing of the version when you walked in here this often if I said to you why do you hold your moral positions you would say logical I thought I'm thought out or am religious my religious principles nurses he responded there within seconds without processing it intellectually at all and to prove it when I asked you about the differences you cannot justify it this is an amazing thesis this suggests that our moral intuition Hamal responses are not logically calculated they come from a different place entirely there's an interesting book about this by the way it's called moral Minds written by a Jewish Harvard professor mark Hauser written about maybe four or five years ago in this book he brings very interesting a detailed research where he presents people with these sorts of moral dilemmas solicits their responses and then ask their explanations and people cannot explain why their responses are the way they are his thesis is is this clear is but better yeah his thesis is that we are hardwired for morality we are hardwired for morality we have a moral intuition which is not intellectual he goes so far as to say that we have a moral intuition which is similar to our language module you know there's a theory in language in linguistics that human beings have a language acquisition module right language acquisition module it's called the LA but the language acquisition module this is not entirely a great theory but the theory is that human beings are born with a programmable set of circuits that are designed for language acquisition and we pick up language the culture you live in picks up the but leads you to pick up the particulars of the language of your culture but we are naturally designed so to speak to speak and his theory is that we are naturally designed where the morals sensitivity it's true that the culture you live in develops the particulars but nevertheless we have the natural intuition about morality that is what some of these scenarios purport to show and the question we need to ask is is that authentic Jewishly is that all think if the authentic do we have a natural sense of morality that's reliable what does Judaism say about that most people think well morality is what God says there's no better than gang doesn't get better than that and I don't think that's correct here's my radical suggestion the Torah attitude is that human beings have a natural morality which is reliable at base it can be very badly distorted by the culture you live in and by circumstance and by history but at base we have a moral intuitions which is reliable and obliged to be developed let me give you a couple of sources first of all we have a notion called derech Eretz CAD mala Torah that means there's a derrick Eretz it means a sense of rectitude and a morality and fairness you have that before you start learning Torah amazingly the Torah attitude is that before you start learning moral principles according to Torah you should be a right thinking fair moral individual you're expected to have that before you start an education spiritual education that's amazing and it's very important for educating children it should not be teaching your children that what's moral is to follow the following rules which mean nothing to use that's not correct children need to know that is sense of fairness and indication indignation at sea moral outrages that's a reliable thing at root and it needs to be developed let me give you a better proof and this is wild it doesn't get better than this the Torah is full of people asserting their moral intuition in the most extreme way example God comes to Abraham and he says to him Avram Abraham I'm about to wipe out the city of Sodom Spain they wicked people I'm gonna wipe them out listen to his response Avram says to Hashem a shepherd collar Eretz lawyer Samish but will the judge of the entire world not do justice abraham is accusing accusing God of injustice what is you can't wipe out the sodomites because maybe they'll be so righteous people there to kill the righteous with the wicked is immoral and you cannot do any immoral action what are you saying the right response is Abraham and God what I do is right by definition God doesn't say that let's talk about it the Taurus full of this a human being asserting his moral knowledge based on his own intuition of what's right against God the Taurus full of that and you will not find one example in the Torah of a human being a certain immoral notion where God says hey I am God Hashem always says one second this stuff you don't know things happen before things go burn afterwards he never pulls moral rank and says I'm God that's unbelievable another example the tower is full of it to the book of Job is full of this I'll give you another example Hashem comes to Mercia and says to emerge the Jewish people have sins they've gone to farm wiping them out where she turns to ash Eman says a Shem that would be immoral of you because you promised the entire Jewish people to give us the land of Israel and if you break your promise by killing us in the desert that will be breaking of a promise and that's immoral and unjust and Michele says the mattresses amazing thing the mention says that God said to him well you know what I'll do I won't break my promise I'll kill the Jewish people I said I'll save you I'll reconstitute the Jewish people from you you will become a nation and I'll give the nation that comes out of you the Land of Israel without a moment's hesitation Mercia turned to our family said that won't work because you promised the entire nation the Land of Israel which means all 12 tribes if you kill them and you save me the reconstituted nation will only be the progeny of the tribe of Navi and you'll be breaking your promise and the measure says that God was unable to answer that's the kind of lawyer you are not working for you yeah by the way a year two months later the same scenario played itself out this time the spies came back with a bad report Hashem said they've gone too far I'm killing them where she said ah shame you can't do that Hana sham said and why not and why she said because people will say that you are mighty enough to take us out of Egypt but not mighty enough to bring us into Israel there's a discredit to your name and that's and that's wrong and therefore don't do it and God said that's not as good an argument as you used a year ago but good enough and by the way by the way the question is widened to use the trump card that he held the year before he had an unstoppable argument that God was unable to answer a year later he gave a much weaker argument and the house is obvious what was his argument to you before you promised us the land of Israel what has just happened the spies have just rejected the Land of Israel you can't say you promised us the land what a hutzpah you just rejected my land so you give a weak argument okay but the point is he argued with God based on his own sense of what God ought to be doing this is unbelievable don't try this at home I don't try this at home right you can argue with God on the basis of what you you are so likely to have a distorted morality vested interest ulterior motives it's true we need an objective standard that's correct but the point I'm making is that there's a root sensitivity that the human being ought to have which needs to be developed here's the correct place for Torah Torah is not meant to override your basic humanity it's meant to cause to flourish and develop and bring it out I'll just give you one classic example how should you deal with other people the mitzvahs between us and each other are you supposed to relate to a human being because it's a divine commandment you visit the sick why you visiting the sick because God commanded you that's wrong you should be visiting the sick because you feel for the sick person of course you fulfilling a mitzvah absolutely no question about it you should be aware of that as well but if you visit the sick people because God commanded you and you don't feel for the sick person you've got the message wrong by the way it makes a big practical difference if you visit some of you sick because God commanded you and you don't care about the sick person then the sicker the better because it's a better Mitzvahs mama Hodor he's an S right that is more beautiful and is really suffering more that's really good but you know I once went to visit some of the you sick took me all day i schlepped just in hospital and like really you're at a real hassle finally I get to the hospital after this long journey I walk into the wood I said where so and so the nurse said he got better he went home said what a husband well that cuts better he couldn't he couldn't suffer another day or chuck and a visiting run now that's not the right attitude right that's not the right energy and therefore the Mitsos are there not to override your morality they are there to discipline it trainer to channel it and bring out your natural depth it's true let me be clear about this very often it is in contradiction to your natural intuition because we have distorted intuitions we're talking about an Abraham at the beginning of history close to the beginning of time with with a cosmic consciousness but the point remains that we are divine beings and the Torah morality is supposed to bring that out in development and therefore when God suggests something immoral you have the right to turn to him and say that doesn't seem moral to me by the way any exceptions to this any exceptions where God wants something immoral and the human being does not argue at all what's the obvious challenge come and make my day the Arcada Hashem comes to our Romani says kill your son that is immoral not a word God system the wipe out the sodomites big argument Hashem says tumors on wrapping on Jewish people big argument Hashem says to Avram kill your son not a word and the answer is obvious that was a commandment when Hashem comes over and says I'm wiping out Sodom what do you think argument we're sure I'm about to wipe out the Jewish people I shall speak into me you want a response here's my response when God gives you an order the nature of the order is can you go against your moral intuitions what is your highest loyalty that's the nature of the test I'll give you an example just to make it a bit clearer you're a soldier on the battlefield your commanding officer calls you in any says listen I'd like to discuss military strategy with you what do you do you discuss strategy when your commanding officer says soldier take that hill then you start discussing military strategy they shoot you add moral discussion is one thing at divine instruction that's something entirely different but the point remains the point remains that we are we are commanded and yet the commandments are meant to bring on something very deepen and and radically now in our nature these scenarios show that very clearly and therefore when you respond one way to that in one way to this even though you can't articulate the reason the depth of it is coming from a place in which you have a moral sense and in this case it happens to be correct let me share with you a resolution of the difference between these cases because you didn't do very well let me tell you a response to this I'll give you two responses one non-jewish and one Jewish response so there is a tradition attributed to Thomas Aquinas got the 1200 he was born in 1248 died in 1273 something like that and Thomas Aquinas has a principle called the doctrine of double effect this is well known in medicine today and many other fields the doctrine of double effect says that you can do something immoral like in a person on condition that it's a double effect a secondary effect of something else that you're doing namely you are doing something else which results in a second effect which is bad and in order to do that you need to satisfy four requirements number one the act that you are doing must not be evil the immediate act you are doing must be neutral or good second the harmful effect must be something that you do not want at all it's merely a foreseen unfortunate disastrous side effect you don't want it at all not as a means or an end three there's no other way out of this dilemma and for the calculus is worthwhile it's one against five those are the conditions let's apply them are you ready tell me together let's apply them number one first criterion is diverting a train from one track to another evil or neutral anyone disagree anyone I think it's an arguable point by the way personally I think it's an arguable point diverting your train is neutral but you diverting it onto train check where it's gonna kill somebody I think that's a dubious point but let's go to the second one let's go to the second point the death of the man on the sidetrack is something you want or do not want you know where you want it it's merely an unfortunately foreseen side effect is that clear you don't want him to get by the train at all let's go here it's pushing a man off a bridge into the path of an oncoming train neutral or evil secondly do you want him to get smushed by the train yes you do of course you do you needed to get smushed that's what's gonna save the people do you see that here you don't need this person to get hit by the train it's just a side effect here you be hit but the trend is the whole point did you see this let me prove it to you watch here's the proof what's the proof listen carefully you divert the train just before it reaches this man he jumps up and runs away would you be happy he'd be thrilled here you push the gun into the track just before the train gets there he jumps off and runs away would you be happy you'd be devastated five people are gonna die you get it and therefore and therefore that's very clear that's a beautiful logical distinction between the cases right double effect if the effect you're doing that is harmful is a secondary double effect so to speak then it's acceptable here it's not a secondary effect here it's the direct act that you need and want and that makes it unacceptable yeah this is used in medicine for example if a person is very very ill fragile delicate and in terrible pain you give them pain relief the medication will relieve the pain but it might stop them breathing acceptable why it's the secondary effect of something that's good giving the pain relief is not evil its relief pain if he does it's an unwanted unfortunate foreseen side-effect that's acceptable I'm not sure I agree with that not you loudly in Judaism but nevertheless that's the doctrine of double effect there's a second resolution of this which is provided by the husband ish the husband issue was the great rabbinic figure who lived in Israel died in 1954 lived in Bnei Brak great leader of jury genius Taurus sage we have aluminous writings from him and he deals with the parallel situation as this and let me tell you what he said by the way there's a tremendous literature on this and I've read many books on the subject and not one book I've ever come across mentions the logic of a husband ish not quoting him probably cause he wrote in Hebrew and is no English translation but they're not come up with this the logic that he uses to distinguish in the cases and I'll try and tell you what he says but let me give you the context he was asked in Israel about the following case nineteen fifty ish or Serb there abouts a man was driving his car down the Carmel Mountain have you been there - very steep mountain the fellow was coming down the mountain the brakes failed actually this was an Israeli he'd never used the brakes before just relied on the who time that's what they do they know very they save money there they don't make the cars with brakes no one uses a rosary they're just given double anyway so this fellow was coming down the mountain brakes failed no fault of his car was 100% correctly checked everything was and he was fully responsible some crazy accident happened brakes not working and he found himself careening towards a bus stop in which ten people were standing if he did nothing he killed ten people he could stern but unfortunately only to a place where one person was standing I don't know what he did but subsequently people went to ask the red rabbi rabbi what should he have done the hostage said I think he should have turned and killed the individual that's very analogous to our first case they said rabbi that's a squeeze with a Rand on how can you say that Maimonides the Rambam rules that you not allow to kill one to save money that's absolutely clear let me tell you the case the random brings down a case from the Gemara which is as follows let's say you have a group of people captured by terrorists and you are required to give one to save everyone okay we're studying this room building surrounded by terrorists they say give us one Jew to kill or one woman to molest and let's stick to murder let's give us give us one Jew to kill or we kill everyone the obvious logic is choose someone if you don't choose them everybody's gonna get killed including the person you would have in Jewish law are you allowed to give one person to be killed no way can one person volunteer yes they can run out and give their life the camera says there were two two brothers called Papas and lianas in the town of Lud when the Romans occupied Israel near the town a Roman girl was found killed the Roman governor accused the Jewish community of noon of having killed her and he threatened to wipe out the whole community unless they yielded the culprits and two innocent Jewish brothers by the names of personally honest they went to the robe and they said we killed it even though it's completely false he killed them and they saved the city by the way some commentaries say that he knew they were lying but he'd made his offer and so he killed him they saved the whole city the Talmud says they guaranteed a place in have an unparalleled place so yes you could give your life like that to save others but I can't choose you and send you out many of our early authorities say the reason is because who are you to make the choice I cannot make that choice and therefore a hundred people died that's is our Gemma's problem we're not allowed to do that so they said look rabbi oh by the way what happens if the terrorists name the person they want there are signals wand you think we want Finkle ma he's our problem can we send that Finkel knowledge debate in the Talmud in the Jerusalem Talmud this point is debated without going into the whole the whole debate then the talmud says is there two opinions one opinion is if is named you can kill him you know why because you not making the choice he's already being choice chosen he's a dead man walking why did we all have to die with him the other opinion is you can only choose him if he's named and responsible he didn't pay his taxes he some there he's the reason they've surrounded us and they threatening us debatable we ruled stringently you can't give his life but nevertheless there's an opinion that it is specified that's called youth do then you can kill him but the default position is you cannot give one person to be killed not that you cannot do so they said rabbi the Rambam says you can't kill one to save money so how do you say the car should be turned and diverted and kill one let's just be clear these are two entirely parallel situations let me make that totally clear here's the case my cars were moving down the mountain if I sit there like this doing nothing I wipe out ten people turn the car ride down one innocent individual standing under a tree on the side of the road thinking deep philosophical thoughts about double effect said the rabbi do it terrorists in front of me they're getting about to wipe out ten people if I do nothing sit there they kill 10 people they give me a gun tests he has a high-powered rifle shoot that innocent person standing under a tree thinking deep philosophical thoughts am I allowed to shoot him what's the difference what's the difference of our shooting with the gun and saved 10 people or run him down with my car and save 10 people do you see the do you see the problem what's the difference listen to what the husband who said he said and this is subtle but very powerful is they they give you a gun and tell you to shoot somebody there my say a sorry shall recife I will translate if they give you a gun and ask you to shoot somebody it's an act of murder it's true that you're active we're the results in saving 10 people you may not do it but when your cars going towards 10 people and you turn away same I say had Salah it's an act of salvation say it again if they tell if they give you the option to murder someone the consequence of which is will save 10 no way the Torah says you can't do that but if you can do an act of saving 10 people by turning away from them even though you will kill one on the side says the hostage that may be acceptable he writes in his famous response among this I'm not sure but I think it's acceptable and in practice he ruled that way much more subtle than double effect not the same principle at all but nevertheless that is what you are required to do is that an act of murder or an act of salvation just to make this a bit clearer anyone disagree with us I think it's too subtle let me make it a little bit more plain your cars going towards ten people you can turn aside say the husband ish I think so could you hear that I think so case number two your doctor in a hospital you've got five patients desperately all they need transplants or they'll die the nurse walks in and says doctor he's a young man in the wedding room he's come to visit his mother let's grab him cut his throat take five organs save five lives raise your hand please oh so will it's an act of murder to save others no way when it's an act of saving possibly you see the difference okay so that's a second way of resolving the issue would you like a blackbelt challenge okay but listen very carefully for this this is this is 10th then black belt I've given you two solutions to the problem right double effect is one form of logic and the second is the cousin ish is an act of murder salvation these are two different explanations now listen carefully in all Talmudic analysis whenever you have two ways of answering the same question that Tom would always asks why bother giving me two solutions just give me one that works and the Talmud unfailingly answers because whichever argument you take makes a difference the Talmudic language is lamine enough demeanor for example if I said you how do I get downtown and you say to me well you can take a taxi or a train why you give me two solutions the answer is one's expensive one is cheap one is slow one is fast there's got to be a difference is this clear you wouldn't bother much you wouldn't castle me with one more than one solution to the problem if one of them works the only reason you give me two different options to solve the problem is when they register the answers that you make a difference here's the question what's the difference whether you accept double effect as the explanation or you effect us except the cancellations logic of is it an act of murder not an own act of salvation let me phrase the question clearly show me a practical difference depending on whether you accept the first explanation double effect or whether you accept the cousin ish show me a life and death difference that it would make I'll show you what's this hope you enjoy this what happens if the trek looked like this camera imagine the trek looked like this can you see that it's a loop that loops back on itself let's try a double effect in double effects we said you could divert the Train if the track looked like this could you divert the trend according to double effect no way why do you need him to get smooshed now yes you do because if he jumps up and runs away the trend will kill these people on the back side correct so according to double effect there's no way you could avert the Train now he bees death becomes essential according to the cousin issue divert the Train I think so it's an act of salvation of these people okay I wouldn't be stubborn about it but I think that's that I think that's the answer so this is these are some of the thoughts that are associated with these kinds of moral dilemmas let me tell you one more resolution here and that is known as utilitarianism again without going into the details there is a system of moral a moral theory that's known as utilitarianism a couple of famous architects of this theory going back 200 years and this theory says that all you ever need to do in human moral dilemmas is simply count the numbers that's all don't get into this tom buddy detailed logic it's all irrelevant simply count the numbers five against one kill the one the greatest good for the greatest number the greatest happiness for the greatest number it is brilliantly simple unbelievably simple totally consistent and never been accepted why not by the way one of the main architects of utilitarianism was a fascinating Englishman called Jeremy Bentham Bentham was a deacon in University College of London about 150 years ago by the way if you'd like to visit Jeremy Bentham you can go and see him today he left instructions in his will that when he died his body should be preserved in case in the main hall of the university and wheeled out to every Senate meeting you know the British are little eccentric and if you walk into UCL today in a glass case on the side of the hall sits Bentham his buddy their head his wax his real head is in the Box on the side which is locked up because the king's college students used to steal it so Bentham sits when a gun lecture to the medical students now pay my respects to Jeremy Bentham they're done Willie's body art but they bring his head to the table at every Senate meeting and is registered as present but not voting anyway I'm not kidding you this is this is the case how do I know this because we file moved to London I read in a book of her logic response a called the it's called the lave area in fact you must have you probably don't know rubber grossness his father was a dine on the London based in and many years ago he was asked by a student at UCL who happens to be a Cohen if he can walk through the hall he goes to this our rabbi gala lectures every day and walking through a hall there's a corpse in the hole I'm a Cohen and he answers very interesting he says for a current of contact with a dead body you may not touch a body with his Jewish or not but to be a nun or hell to be in a space for the body only plaster jewish bodies however on second thoughts a Cohen may have no contact with the grave this may be Bentham's grave this is where he's permanently interred walk around the whole anyway so so Bentham suggested that all you need to do all this logic is completely irrelevant simply count the numbers it is brilliantly simple works every time and never been accepted and here's the bottom line you know why not because it doesn't feel right isn't that amazing it's so logical it solves all the problems society could make unbelievable decisions and no societies ever accepted it because it doesn't feel right I mean the two people in this hall who would you would love it but you know and it's quite easy to show imagine imagine you backpacking in South America and you stumbled into a little Peruvian village high in the Peruvian Andes and you stumble it and you see lined up against the wall 20 men about to be shot it's standing where there I've lost 20 people about to be shot just before they fire they see you and they say in honor of ill Presidente's birthday we're gonna let you shoot one of these people and save 19 lives and they stand there clapping and speaking in Spanish and throwing their heads in there waiting for you to want to shoot it shoot any one of these 19 people spit raise your hand please are not not you the rest of you raise your hand please if you would shoot one of them anyone you were saving 19 lives if you don't they're all gonna die you as well you got infected that's your problem okay the answer is it doesn't feel right logically it's brilliant 20 people gonna die you can have 19 of them saved doesn't feel right and on the basis of that basis of that Bernard Williams the professor philosophy at Cambridge wrote an excellent book called morality very well worth reading he was an atheist although he says very nice things about God very interesting but he analyzes utilitarianism and the best answer you can come to is with all these analytical philosophical approach the reason has never been accepted in societies we have no dis proof of it it works brilliantly but it doesn't feel right and our deepest intuition and motion an arbiter of what is moral is our conscience which has to be considered Israel let me finish with this here we finished with us just to show you how far this goes in 1944 I mean in so many situations you could give as examples but in 1944 in London you know the V 2 bombs were being sent in right the Germans had constructed these flying bombs they were being sent over from France tens of thousands of people died in London and here's what was happening imagine the map of London City of London the Germans were aiming at Westminster of course they were strategic and the very densely populated but most of the v-2 bombs were falling in Croydon southwest London sparsely populated at the time compared to Westminster and the Germans needed to know where their bombs were falling there was no GPS in satellites there two secret agents in London one was called Garbo and one was called zigzag fascinating individuals can read the biography zigzag was a guy called Annie Chapman very interesting character they were radioing the Germans about where the bombs were falling and they were telling the Germans she unknown to the Germans there was secret British double agents they worked for a group called double cross they were taking the orders from Churchill directly Churchill told him to tell the Germans that their aim was accurate Churchill wanted the bombs to fall in croydon to spare the densely populated area of Westminster so Garbo and zigzag were telling the Germans that you're doing great so that the Rockets spelled in this area of London there was a man of Churchill's cabinet called Harris it was a working-class man he worked himself up he publicly argued against Churchill and accused him publicly of murdering people in Croydon see the argument Churchill said I'm not killing these people and saving lace and he said you're killing us is this killing to say is a diverging what is this how the argument was solved eventually was it was a very upper crust aristocratic English gentleman the president at the time who argued forcefully that this was the correct moral decision and they should kill people in Croydon and his own parents lived in Croydon when they served him how could you do that he said mum and dad would have wanted it that way anyway so these are some of the issues that society deals with when the Germans when they're Americans killed seventy four thousand people at Hiroshima they said we're not killing people we're saving millions more in a war and society has to do with us all the time or these acts of Salvation acts of killing diversion what is it this is a problem we live with all the time and what I'd like to leave you with the suggest I'd like to leave you with is that is that attitude we should have here is that we are meant to become moral individuals not by simply following some algorithm or some rules although when push comes to shove follow those rules because the Torah is more likely to be right objectively and you because of many many distortions that creep in as we move to various phases of society all sorts of things become acceptable they were not acceptable the year before that's true you look at society around us we go through shifting sands of moral fashion no question about that but the ultimate goal of Torah is not to follow a set of rules mindlessly or to develop children who are simply mindless robots following religious rules but to use Torah as a system to get in touch with the deepest essence of what it is to be a human energy and thereby flourish genuinely in a holistic sense and bring out a natural morality to become people who are truly good [Applause]

Channel: Sinai Indaba

Views: 26,442

Keywords: Judaism, Torah, Shiur, Inspiration, Positivity, Growth, Israel, Chief Rabbi, Love, Neshama, Soul, Spirituality

Id: RJf1QLZP-Go

Length: 42min 45sec (2565 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 04 2019