ELISABETH ELLIOT: Has anyone a question? This gentleman right here. MAN: How many years did you spend with the
Indians following the death of Jim Elliot? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Okay. How many years did I spend with the Indians
following the death of Jim Elliot? He died in '56, I came back to the States
in '63, so I was there seven years. That was not all with the Auca Indians. The ones who killed him, I spent two years
with them. I spent about eight years altogether with
Quechua Indians, and I worked with another tribe, too. Another question? Sir? Back there? MAN: What -- How do you avoid -- I'm not sure
how to phrase the question. How do you avoid slipping into despair after
a long-term suffering? You know, when you, when you pray, and you
ask God for, for a healing or a change in the circumstances and they don't change, how
do you handle that? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Well the first chapter -- Excuse
me. Yes. How do I handle suffering after a long period? I guess the word was "depression" or "despair"
-- after a long period of suffering when God doesn't seem to be changing the situation? I would think of the first chapter of James,
where he says, "When all kinds of trials and temptations come into your lives, my brothers,
don't resent them as intruders, but welcome them as friends. Realize that they come to test your faith
and to produce in you the quality of endurance." But then he says this important thing. He says, "Let the process go on." And God does let the process go on. Remember that Israel had to go through that
wilderness. Daniel had to go into the lion's den. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego had to go into
the furnace. And sometimes the furnace lasts a long time. So the principles that I've been trying to
articulate here would be exactly what I would say: I don't know a better therapy for depression
and despair and grief itself than this formula from Isaiah 58:10. Start pouring yourself out for somebody else,
because there are a lot of people in much worse shape than you are. You cannot do it alone. It's only by the grace of God, and He will
help you. When you start doing that, something amazing
happens. This principle of exchange starts to go into
operation and, as he promises here, then you will be satisfied. Your own hungers, your own needs will be met
when you start meeting somebody else's. Lady back here? WOMAN: I'm interested that you haven't brought
up Satan at all. What part do you think he plays in suffering? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Okay, the question is: You
haven't brought up Satan at all. What part does he play in suffering? Well, I did bring him up very briefly at one
point but, I admit, very briefly. In the passage describing Paul's thorn in
the flesh, he says that it was not only a gift given to him to prevent spiritual pride
-- which clearly means that it had to be a gift from God -- but he said it was also a
messenger of Satan given to buffet him. So that has settled my mind forever in trying
to figure out whether something that comes to me is from God or from Satan, because we
live in a fallen world in which Satan is the prince of the power of the air -- and he apparently
has tremendous authority because he offered to Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. Now, that temptation would have no meaning
whatsoever if Satan had not had the power to do that. So, there is a tremendous lot of mystery here
in who's in charge of what. But there's a verse in the last part of the
fourteenth chapter of John where Jesus says, "The prince of this world is on his way. He has no rights over me, but the world must
be shown that I love the Father and will do exactly what He says." He was referring, of course, to His coming
crucifixion. Satan had a lot to do with the crucifixion. It says that Jesus was put in the hands of
evil men and nailed to a cross -- the worst thing that ever happened -- but God had the
best things that ever happened in mind. So that's always the way it is. We are at the mercy of Satan up to a point,
but he has no rights over us any more than he had over Job, any more than he has over
Jesus, and yet God gives him permission. We can't plumb the mysteries, but we can recognize
that we belong to God, and "greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world." Another question? This lady? WOMAN: Yes. Did you, in the process of all your suffering,
lose friends who couldn't cope with your losses? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Did I lose friends? WOMAN: Yes, and what's the correct response? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Okay, the question is: In
your sufferings, did you lose friends who could not cope with -- what was the last word
there? WOMAN: Your suffering or your losses. ELISABETH ELLIOT: Could not cope with my suffering
and my losses. I don't think I did. I think I'd have to say "no" to that question
as I certainly don't remember losing friends. WOMAN: Is there a correct response? ELISABETH ELLIOT: To those friends? WOMAN: Yes. ELISABETH ELLIOT: My husband seems to want
to clarify that. LARS GREN: Yes, can you speak maybe to death
-- when Ad died -- of people who cannot face the suffering you were going through and sort
of avoided you, that might be one aspect. ELISABETH ELLIOT: Okay. One aspect of anyone who is bereaved, I suppose,
experiences the fact that their friends -- many of their friends -- sort of fade away into
the woodwork because they don't know what to do. They don't know how to respond to this. Has this got something to do with your question? WOMAN: Yes. ELISABETH ELLIOT: Okay. And I -- come to think about it, I do remember
people actually avoiding me, and I didn't take it hardly. I took it simply that they did not know how
to respond. And this brings to mind a friend of mine who,
whom I mentioned earlier. She's totally quadriplegic. And when she was paraplegic -- had not yet
reached that stage of quadriplegic, she was in a wheelchair, and she said to me one time,
she said, "You know, people really don't care. They don't help you. They don't do anything. They sort of avoid anybody in a wheelchair." And I said, "Jan, please don't think it's
that they don't care. A lot of people care, but they don't -- they
really are not sure what they're supposed to do." And I think we've all had this difficulty
of knowing how to respond. And Nate Saint, the pilot who was in Ecuador
and was killed along with my husband -- he was a very remarkable man in a lot of ways
-- and one thing that he taught me years ago, he said, "If a man has a very obvious scar
or handicap," he said, "I always make it a practice to ask him about it. And that gives him a chance to tell me something
that I need to learn." And I have tried to make that a practice,
too. And I, so far, I've never had anybody offended
by it, as far as I know. But we are often at a loss, and I would say
that the proper response is to let that person know, if you can, if you know the person,
and you can just say, "Look, I really would like to talk about my husband. You don't have to try to get me off the subject." Most of my friends tried to change the subject
every time. And I said, "Look, when a person has been
bereaved, usually, the most important thing they want to talk about is that. So if you'll listen -- " Lars, did you have
something to say again? Oh, you keep putting your hand up. You have a question? Let -- you can ask your wife at home! Yes? MAN: I wanted to know in -- in giving up something
or accepting something, sometimes the emotions or feelings don't seem to go along, or we
even have them to continue with us, or we can't get rid of them, and I thought maybe
you could -- in your situation, how did you handle some of your feelings? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Well, as I've tried to make
-- Oh, here, I have to -- I'm sorry, I keep forgetting to repeat the question. In my sufferings, my troubles, how did I handle
my feelings? I've tried to make it as plain as I can that
I can't handle bad emotions. I can't handle loneliness, I can't handle
despair and discouragement. So it becomes material for sacrifice. It's something which I literally have to offer
to God. And, if you want me to give you a -- my own
very simple formula, and it's not the way you have to do it, but it has been of, of
a great help to me, to just get alone somewhere, get down on my knees, and say, "Lord, you
know how I'm feeling" about this thing, whatever it is. You get a piece of bad news; this happened
to me a couple of years ago. It was so bad that I felt I could not cope. So I just went into a room alone, got down
on my knees, and I put that thing, invisibly, in my hands, and I just lifted up my hands
to the Lord, and I said, "Here is this thing, Lord, and I can't do anything with this myself. You take it and transfigure it for my blessing
and for the good of others." Now, I want to make it clear -- and I think
this is the question that Lars was getting at -- that does not mean that God instantly
whips that thing completely out of your life. I had to come back again, and again, and again. Just as a widow, for example, every night
of the rest of her life, she has to go to bed alone. Every morning she wakes up alone. All the little things that you do during the
day, when you realize, as I did, that I had really lived for Jim. I had done everything for Jim. When Ad died, I had done everything for Ad. And I'm doing things for Lars now. When that person is gone, then there are a
thousand reminders. And each time I was stabbed to the heart with
the reminders. That was material for sacrifice. So I offered up again. In other words, God may give me the same thing
a thousand times to give back to Him, and He keeps exchanging it and giving it back
to me. And He is working in mysterious, unseen ways
which, ultimately, I think we're going to see -- just as the poem about the weaver tells
-- He is at work. And the day is going to come when He will
unfold the pattern, and it will be your responses that are going to make the difference there. Another question? Bonnie? WOMAN: Elisabeth, more and more, as you share,
I'm hearing how important it is to know God as a person. What I would like to ask is, can you give
us practical ways in which we can pursue that goal of knowing God as a person? ELIZABETH ELLIOT: Thank you. Bonnie's question is: give us practical ways
in which we can know God as a person. And the most practical book in the world is
the Bible, and I can give you a verse from John 14, and then I'll try to bring it down
to earth maybe, if it's not practical enough to suit you. It says, in verse 21, John 14: "The man who
has received My commands and obeys them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,
and I will love him and disclose myself to him." In other words, the knowledge of God is not
an intellectual exercise. It is the reward of obedience. And I gave you the story of my friend Terry,
who decided to obey God and honor her mother. And, instead of arguing, and fussing, and
whining, and howling, and creating a scene, when her mother said, "No, you can't go,"
she said, "Okay." Now, I don't know how to be any more practical
than that. Very often, young people -- college students,
high school students -- come to me and they say, "I really want to do the will of God. I really want to know God. Now, how do you get there?" You know, they think I'm way up here on some
kind of a pedestal that they've got to struggle to get to, and how did I get there? And I try to show them that I'm still right
down here in kindergarten struggling the same way they are. But you do the next thing that God is telling
you to do. And I say to them, "Are you a student?" The answer is, "Yes." "Okay," I say, "I can tell you what the will
of God for a student is. It's to study." Now, they didn't want to hear that. They want me to tell them something spiritual,
and I say, "Look, quit plagiarizing. Quit cheating. Quit putting off, till the night before the
exam, your studying. Write the paper. Do the assignment. Clean your room. Be nice to your roommate. That's how you get to know God. You do it for His sake." And if they say to me, "Well, but I need to
know which college to go to, and I've been asking God for guidance about this, and I
have to know by next March, and this is October and I don't know yet. So how am I going to know?" And my answer, usually, is, "God has something
for you to do in October that doesn't look to you as though it has anything to do with
next March. It might be, write a letter to your mother
this week. It might be, make an apology to your roommate." You see, that's, I think, what Jesus is talking
about right here. "The one who does what I say will be loved
by My Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him." Another verse in the next chapter: "Jesus
said, 'If you heed My commands, you will dwell in My love.'" Now, what is dwelling in His love if it's
not learning to know God? "You will dwell in My love, as I have heeded
My Father's commands and dwell in His love." What was the secret of the union between the
Son and the Father? Obedience. Obedience. Obedience. The most practical way to get to know God
-- the only way, as far as I know. "Trust and obey, for there's" -- what does
it say? -- "no other way." One minute. That's got to be a short one. WOMAN: Sometimes, when people are, to the
best of their ability, under the leading of the Holy Spirit, trying to become broken bread
and poured-out wine, they become very, very exhausted. What is the remedy? ELISABETH ELLIOT: Sometimes, when people are
trying to be obedient to God and become broken bread and poured-out wine, they become very,
very exhausted. What is the remedy? Our pattern is Jesus, again. He was a very busy man, and yet He, He moved
in perfect serenity from one thing to the next. And I think the secret of the peace that He
gives is to do the work that God has given us to do. And that's, of course, the tension that you
and I have to deal with. I constantly pray, "Lord, Thy list be done." I cannot do everything that's on my list or
on everybody else's. And I don't believe it's God's will for us
to be totally exhausted and burned out. I hate that word "burnout." We are to do the work of God without haste
and without sloth, and only God can help us to sort out what is His will and what is ours
or somebody else's. God bless you.
