Questions and Answers

[Music] let's have a word of Prayer Heavenly Father we thank you for this opportunity to magnify you in the questions that are asked for whatever reason they are asked we know that they will be answered in truth we thank you in Jesus name Amen these first questions are questions that were asked at the symposium and perhaps these answers that will be given are different than the answers at the symposium what about the quote God is the father of Christ Christ is the son of God to Christ is given an exalted position he has been made equal with the father all the council's of God are open to his son if Christ has always been equal how could he be made equal okay the symposium answered this his equality was questioned by Lucifer as far as I'm concerned I believe that quote is inspired and has its place in our beliefs as Christians God is the father of our Lord Jesus Christ you can read that in John 3:16 God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son Jesus Christ is the son of God we know because it says very often he's the son of God 48 times in the Bible the term son of God is used we also know that all the councils were open to his son and that's because you can see in Zechariah 6 verse 13 that the counsels of peace were between them both that's the father in the son we also know that he was given an exalted position you can read that in Hebrews chapter 1 also being brought forth from say proverbs chapter 8 he was right there with God as the firstborn of all creation not the first to create it but the firstborn of all creation and then we also know that he was given an exalted position as rather what's the other one made equal sorry made equal and we know that in John chapter 5 verse 26 the Bible says that as the father has life in himself so has he given to the son to have life in himself so I think that every part of that quote stems back to previous stated inspiration whether it be in the Bible or the writings of Ellen White and so I think that that is absolutely something we can accept and believe in I'd like to piggyback on that a little bit because if you take a look at that particular passage in testimonies volume 8 there is a biblical passage that precedes it and pastor may so alluded to it and that's hebrews chapter 1 verses 1 through 5 now listen to the verbage here and then she launches into the very concept god is the father of christ christ is the son of God God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the father father's by the prophets now realize the Bible writers Paul in particular always differentiates between God and he does not mix streams here hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son whom he hath appointed heir of all things he has appointed him an heir he made him equal he gave him he made him more excellent whom he appointed heir of all things by whom he also made the worlds who being in the brightness of his glory and the Express image of his person and upholding all things by the word of his power when he had had excuse me when he had by himself purged our sins sat down on the right hand with the Majesty on high notice that it says that he was in the Express image of his person so an Express image is a like you're looking into the mirror and you're seeing your reflection well there has to be a source for that image otherwise it wouldn't be an Express image being made so much better than the Angels Christ was made so much better than the Angels to him was given a more exalted name as he hath by inheritance obtained that more excellent name than they for unto which of the Angels said he that is God at any time thou art my son this day have I begotten thee and again I will be unto him a father and he shall be to me a son and then she launches right into that pivotal passage so I think without equivocation we can look at it she means what she says and she said what she meant next question does Romans 8:11 state that the holy spirit raised Jesus who raised Jesus the verse I think is pretty clear it says in verse 11 but if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you well who's the him the father I think we're done just quickly if anybody's interested I did present something not long ago called raised I think it's raised by the father this I don't remember the name exactly but I went through about 30 scriptures in the New Testament showing that God the Father raised Jesus Christ and you can see that these verses with the spirit being included are in that that presentation and that would be at pH M dorg you can find the youtube link there we're gonna there was a question about can you read Romans 10:9 and 10 I'll do that quickly that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved for him or for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession made unto salvation so thank you very much next question I have been a defendant of the triune doctrine but I need to know more information about the alleged talk or sermon of Ellen White in Australia which mentioned about worship of the Father of the Son and of the Holy Spirit how can you prove the authenticity of it as part of Ellen White's sermon being a sermon it's from a we have the record from a stenographer what that means is somebody in the audience was taking shorthand while Ellen White was speaking because she was referring to in that same letter I believe it's where she said no I'm gonna skip that because I'm not sure but we know that a stenographer was the one that actually brought those things down and probably filled it out being shorthand that / remembered what she had or he had meant and then therefore wrote it out so from the actual published writings of Ellen White we never find any expression that gives us any indication that we should worship the spirit the Bible never gives up that direction and we can take her published writings to know and understand what she believes and we can also find the Bible and show that the Bible gives the same belief they were to worship the father and the son you can see that for example in the end of Revelation chapter five next question I was just gonna add to that that I don't think the the question necessarily should be can we prove its authenticity but how should we understand it and the answer is we should understand it according to that which she officially published and if our understanding needs to harmonize with that has been published if it doesn't then authenticity doesn't matter next question what did Ellen White mean when she wrote we want the Holy Spirit which is Jesus Christ I think she meant just that I believe more more specifically we can derive from that that quote that we should be looking at who who Jesus Christ is and we should be looking at Jesus Christ experience while here on earth and why the Holy Spirit was not given till after he ascended and after Christ was glorified he then could bestow the gift the highest gift that has been given in the universe that gift is his experience that gift is his life that's why that's why we're told it is the life of his life it is his human experience in fallen flesh overcoming sin and that is the greatest gift you can give to fallen man looking at this same understanding but going around the barn I'll go back to what I said earlier this morning and that is to actually really three pivotal passages within the scripture John 3:16 Galatians 4 verses 4 through 6 and John 17:3 all of those demonstrate that God only sent Jesus Christ he didn't send anyone other than Christ first in human form and then as the comforter in spirit form so it makes perfect sense biblically that Ellen White would write we would we want the Holy Spirit which is Jesus Christ she understood that perfectly there was no question in her mind whatsoever I'd also like to say that that's why Paul was able to say in Colossians chapter 1 verse 27 the hope of glory is Christ in you right and also in Galatians chapter 2 verse 20 he said I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not i but who Christ lives within me and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me so Paul is consistent with Ellen White which is consistent with that letter and therefore we can accept it as authentic whereas I remember in the previous symposium they were saying well those letters we can't really accept them but they certainly wanted to accept the stenographers comment so that was kind of confusing and just kind of piggyback on what pastor Mesa just said that very demonstration is a form of higher criticism it doesn't take much and you will eventually study your way out of the message and you will accept things that are spurious and reject that which is authentic because you're being led by a different spirit that's the issue next question the quote from desire of Ages pages 805 the importation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ it imbues the receipt ever with the attributes of Christ is this speaking of two entities or one well it's talking about one we've already covered that the Holy Spirit is Christ and the reason that you know the the accusation comes often that we believe that the Holy Spirit what one person said is just an effervescent force and I've never even heard anybody in this movement make such a statement an effervescent and effervescent Forrest is an alka-seltzer tablet the Holy Spirit is so much to us because it is the life of Christ there's no other power that can able us to have victory over sin but the life of Christ the experience of Christ and so the Holy Spirit is much much much more than just just a force and just to put a scripture with that as well Romans 8 since we were talking about it earlier it actually says in verse 9 you are not in the flesh but in the spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his so this one verse actually refers to the Spirit of God the spirit of Christ there's only one spirit according to Ephesians chapter 4 and that is the spirit that is holy and that holy spirit is the father spirit given through the mediation of the son after he became a human and as Dustin had said is the life of his life the gift that enables us to overcome all sin next question he find clearly for us the difference between the Catholic and Adventists understanding of the Trinity honestly I don't think I can I don't really see any difference aside from perhaps semantics essentially they are the same yeah semantics when when you tried to define you gotten as being eternally generated then you're getting in to semantics and regarding the person as well the words person but essentially the the doctrine of having one god one substance in three persons is identical and the the meaning behind those are identical both Catholic and Protestant including seventh-day adventists and they use the same scriptures to support it for example the baptism of Matthew 3 you have Matthew 28 verses 18 through 20 you have second Corinthians 13 through 14 first John chapter 5 verse 7 and a few others like that one other thing I think we need to recall and you can look these things up on YouTube and that is several months ago whitehorse media I had pastor justice st. Hilaire come in and talk about the Trinity and he in no uncertain terms I mean he was very explicit said that what we believe a Seventh day Adventists is just like the Catholic Trinity not long after that Pastor Joel Kraske who was speaking on behalf of amazing discovery said we don't believe like the Catholics believed so what what you have going here is they can't even get on the same page of music and it's because it's so far-reaching you really have to go outside the parameters of acceptable doctrine of Orthodoxy to even come up with such a belief system now to that end I would lean more with pastor saint-hilaire in terms of what he stated because as you read the way number two the number two fundamental belief of the church is written it is almost word-for-word what you will find on the Vatican's website so you tell me you can draw your own conclusions that's the question it is said the Holy Spirit is not a being what is the difference between a person and a being incidentally this is a question that was brought up today well if you if you're speaking of it in terms of usage there really isn't much of a difference as far as we use it in common vernacular when we speak of a person or we speak of a being the only real difference goes back into the etymology of the word where the actual Latin is persona and I think as dr. Richard Choi correctly explained a persona literally means represents a mask and in in Latin it comes from two words per and sona which means that which was speaking through or spoken through so it's a it's a mask so technically a person would could represent a covering something that is outward appearance whereas a being could more understood correctly as who and what we are not just the outward but in in vernacular and and even in the language of the Bible it says that Jesus was the Express image of his person and so in the original that's substance and so in the way we use it in English they're almost interchangeable but there is a semantic difference the question itself in some ways purports to intimated that there is a person of the Holy Spirit for example the third person in some ways I find the question to be erroneous and the reason I say that is because nowhere in the sacred texts will you find anything about the first person second person or third person of the Godhead or anything along those lines you find God you find the son of God and you find the Spirit of God admittedly the term third person is used in the writings of Ellen White twice once in the desire of Ages and then in another article to which she responds saying the third person of the Godhead but as you look at it carefully she's not referring to a person as those of us who might be sitting here or out in the audience but rather it is a grammatical third-person structure that's the way I've read it these gentlemen have read it the same way and I think if we're honest with the text within the testimonies you will read it the same way and again I go back to the rule and guide to our faith and practice the scripture nothing about first second third person anything there's one God who has a divine son and a spirit between them both that comes to convict the hearts of men that we might be drawn unto Him and if you wanted to see the third-person idea as a grammatical third person in the Bible you would look up the phrase son of man in the New Testament it happens 88 times 84 times as in Matthew Mark Luke and John and almost every one of the 84 times it's in Matthew Mark Luke and John Christ is referring to himself in the grammatical third person as the son of man now think about this for a second the third-person idea in the writings of Ellen White can be specifically referred to Jesus Christ and the way we can see that from the Bible as well is like for example in Matthew 28 verse 20 where Jesus having just said you're going to be baptized into the family of God the Father the Son and the Spirit and then it says clarifying who the Spirit is in verse 20 he says I am with You alway even unto the end of the world you'd have to ask the question how through his spirit and at the end of mark 16 verses 19 and 20 Christ had been received up into heaven in verse 20 it says they the disciples went forth and preached everywhere the Lord working with them wait a minute it just said the Lord had been caught up to heaven but then it says the Lord is working with them how through his omnipresent spirit and that's why in the desire of Ages page 166 point 2 it says this while Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above he is still by his Spirit the minister of the church on earth he is withdrawn from the eye of sense in other words you can't see him but his parting promises fulfilled lo I am with You alway even at the end of the world while he delegates his power to inferior ministers his energizing presence is still with his church so according to Matthew Mark and Ellen White that third person the expression of the father and the son in a grammatical third person is the spirit speaking of the fullness of the Godhead as though it is themself so if the Spirit says God loves you it's actually the Spirit of God saying God loves you it's just a grammatical third person this is why Ellen White can say the Holy Spirit is just as much a person as God as a person walking through these grounds because it's Christ that walks alongside of us and guides us and directs us there's nothing wrong with that statement that she made about Avondale College she's trying to reassure them that Christ was leading that school and the formation of that school it was Jesus Christ one other thing I want to add really quickly about the third-person idea when I said that you'll find it twice you'll find it both in the signs of the times which is December 1st 1898 and then also in desire of Ages on page 671 everything else comes from a compilation or a repetitive source but two original sources we find the idea of third person of the Godhead we will feel questions on the mic after these are read and you'll have an opportunity to do that I get different answers on this is Jesus the God of the Bible ie the Scriptures these are they that testify of me I would say that no Jesus is not the God of the Bible because the Bible says very plainly in Deuteronomy 6:4 that here o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord and Jesus tells us of John 17:3 that this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true or original God and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent so to call him God does not make him V God to call me man does not make me the Adam it makes me simply an Adam I'm human but it does not make me the Adam does not make me the father of the human race it makes me a son of the human race so to call Jesus God does not make him V God it makes him one who descended or came from God and this is Express image of his person you know it's kind of ironic the misunderstanding of this is partially what caused the women's ordination issue in the church because the women's ordination issue for those that would be proponents of it are ignoring hierarchy the hierarchy that God set up the husband is the head of the wife Christ is the head of the man and the father is the head of Christ and to ignore that hierarchy is to completely misunderstand this the subject that we're being asked about right now after discussing the issue about the resurrection in mark chapter 12 Jesus receives a question from one of the scribes and he asked him which is the first commandment of all and jesus answered the question the first of all the commandments is hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord that's the first commandment in other words and he did not say here o Israel I am your God he said the Lord our God he included himself in the PERT in the pronoun the plural pronoun R and so we need to take the words of Christ as they read he's pointing to his father he's not pointing to anybody else next question didn't Ellen White state Jesus was eternal when one thing about this question is that seventh-day adventists for decades and decades have been trying to convince the Protestant world that just because Hellfire is everlasting or eternal it does not really last forever it only lasts till the end of the age but then they do a total 180 when it comes to this topic and the concept of eternity is specifically eternity past and I just think just as a note that's that's inconsistent and they can't have their cake and eat it too eternity is a realm in the past and we will be with God if we are among the redeemed for all eternity but eternity is that that that time that is over the horizon it's the time that you cannot see it's a realm of time and my dad is from the 50s but that's a realm of time and that's that's how I view this concept of eternity so just quickly again there's that really powerful verse that I never really knew was there as a Trinitarian pastor for many years it's John's five verse 26 which I had said earlier but I'll say it again as the father has life in himself so has he given given to the son to have life in himself the father had life original unborrowed and derived and he gave that life to his son and so in order for the scripture to be true there was a time where the father had to give life to the son and just like I have been given life or you have been given life and we've entered into eternal life and if we're faithful we will not ever die you seen him saying we have immortality and in the same way the son has eternal life he is eternal just like I could say if I'm faithful I will be eternal or I am eternal because of that life as first John chapter 5 verse 11 says that the father has given us and that life is in the son next question this has always confused me there is one God but two beings are called God are there two gods yes and no Christ is God to us but Christ is not the father's God like a friend of mine likes to say the father boughs to no one but it's it's again recognizing the hierarchy so the father is God to Christ we see many examples of that but the the son is not God to the Father he is God to us again I just would go back to a comment I made before would we ask that because you have the name Adam and our first father had the name Adam that there were two Adams no there was one and you are one of his descendants there's one God and Jesus is called God in a sense that is not contrary to sense because he's the son of God so we can call him our God we can call him my god but he's not the god of his God he is our God and He is divine because he was brought forth from the father and so I think we need to understand it in the sense that doesn't contradict the sense of the Bible one other comment on that issue and that is we need to understand that like begets like human baguettes human divinity baguettes divinity and so if the son indeed came forth from the father from his very bosom then whatever came forth in this case Jesus Christ the Son of God must be divine he must be deity now we have heard that he is our God yes and at the same time we need to understand and I know these gentlemen will agree with me when I say this is that although we worship the Sun worshiping the Sun is not an end of itself rather it is to take us to rightful worship of the Father because think about this John 17:3 and this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God you can stop right there by the way you don't even have to go any farther than that the whole point of eternal life is knowing the father so we come to the way so that we might find the way in thy way O God is in the sanctuary and Jesus takes us through the sanctuary purifies us cleanses us sanctifies us such that the father ultimately can justify us and that we might give glory to him and spend eternity with them both next question how does the message of the one true God connect with the righteousness by faith 1888 message I think I could say it fits like a hand in a glove yeah form-fitting glove you can't separate them can you separate the truth about God from what righteousness is isn't the Lord Jesus the Lord our righteousness can we separate that knowing him and his father is life eternal therefore knowing him and knowing his father is knowing righteousness so I don't think we can separate those two next question some Stas are concerned because ot jeez once your God separate the church house the church house divided cannot stand alone and that's a reference to mark 3:25 what you say so be it it has to be done what do I say to them simply put how do i rely reply to eg white objections of Trinity that she says silence is golden on the character of God nature how do I answer them it's a long question first of all I would say silence is golden to those to whom it is not revealed but to those to whom it is revealed silent is condemnation woe unto me if I preach not the gospel what God revealed the sister white she must reveal to us she's not contradicting herself for me to to try to expound upon that that would be heresy because God hath not revealed it unto me but he has revealed it through his prophets and woe unto them if they do not next question Matthew 28:19 this verse was used this morning wasn't this verse added to the Bible I'll give a short unequivocal answer and then maybe my brethren can expound upon it absolutely not I'll agree with my brother Ellen White says those words fell off the lips of Christ and those words do not create a trinity we're talking about the family of God there's the father there's the Sun and the Sun has given because he's the only mediator between God and men his spirit and as a result of that spirit being given he's able to say in the very next verse I am with You alway even into the end of the world and so we're talking about being baptized into the royal family of God and taking on the divine nature having escaped the corruption that are in the world through lust you are now a child of the king so I think that is a beautiful verse that we can use and don't have to be afraid of one of the things that some scholars will tell you and the jury's still out ultimately is that Matthew 28:19 could be an added text simply because we find no indication of it anywhere else within the extant scripture to that end I don't think whether it is or isn't is of paramount importance the character of the characteristics of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit now if the father has life in himself and he gives it unto the son and we're told in patriarchs and prophets and great controversy that the father and the son were the same in nature character and purpose there's therefore the domain equals the range therefore it's under I've and it's their spirit that they share then we have no conflict with this particular their passage even though we find in the book of Acts that baptisms were only done in the name of Christ and Jesus or whomever the point of the matter is one can safely baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and not violate any concepts whatsoever furthermore as these gentlemen have already said we have the testimonies bearing witness that these lips fell off of the lips of these words fell off the lips of Christ himself so no issue whatsoever so let's not try to hire criticise it away just had a few thoughts in harmony with those when we think of name name also represents authority Jesus came in the father's name by whose authority did he speak he says I speak not my own words but the words of him that sent me now who was sent in the father and the son's name the prophets by whose authority did they speak by God's authority correct now who was it that was in them first Peter 1:11 the Spirit of Christ which was in them so by whose authority they speak by the spirits it's one authority beloved it's one Authority there is no contradiction there Christ spoke in the name of his father we speak in the name of Christ which is the same Authority and it's because we have unction of the spirit to do so it is the authority of God Exodus 32 verses 4 & 8 why did Aaron say these plural be thy gods if only a cat a cat singular was made I commented on this in just a short time ago in a message Jeroboam and the historian if you wanted to look it up but it's actually it is the word Elohim but what was just mentioned a couple of a couple of weeks ago by dr. Davidson is that when the Bible is using the term Elohim to define a false god it will make it plural okay there are plural uses of terms that go along with it and so that's probable but at the same time it is the word Elohim and they had it in the context of a false god which he said means more than one person in that one God and so as was mentioning earlier in the presentation he by default condemned his own logic of trying to define Elohim as a Trinity he would have he in that statement showed that he was trying to show that Elohim is more than one person and therefore by the Bible would be defined as a false God in Exodus seven one it says and the Lord said to Moses see I have made thee an Elohim to Pharaoh and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet how many Moses were there one thing also you might be able to find this on YouTube but it was a classroom lecture by dr. Giri muscala from the seminary and he made it very clear that although people wish to form a basis for the Trinity in Genesis 1:1 and - he says it's absolutely not there you can try but you won't find it and no Jewish scholar no Hebrew scholar will ever derive a Trinitarian thought process if you want to really understand a better or get a better understanding of the term Elohim or a HOD talked to a rabbi they have it they understand it next question acts 20:28 was it the Spirit of God that shed his blood is that how God could die for us some what do we have to pay someone $2,000 if we answer this wrong [Laughter] going back to what brother Jason shared earlier if we understand that the God spoken of there the Spirit of God refers to the father then who is the spirit of the father who does the Bible say as the spirit of the father Christ is it then fair to say that Christ shed his blood for us well then we can surely say that it was the Son of God that shed his blood for us and that it's that the spirit of that Christ that was setting overseers or bishops over the church and that's the context in which it's being spoken the Spirit of Christ was the one acting the Spirit of the Christ was the one directing of the administration of the church and it was the person directly connected to that spirit that shed his blood not the spirit itself but the person Jesus Christ the man Jesus Christ correct it's just in Luke chapter 23 I think it is maybe 24 where it says the spirit does not have flesh and bones flesh and blood and so a spirit doesn't have that which to shed blood with therefore it would have to refer to the Incarnate Christ not the Spirit of Christ next question we are non Trinitarians what about us are we all going to be disfellowship if you keep preaching the truth brother or sister yes I believe so but if you're gonna be quiet perhaps not but you have to go by your conscience on that one just quickly when you're going back into the story of Christ and his disciples on the earth they were ill treated especially in the book of Acts by the church at the time who did not accept that Jesus was the son of God and the Jewish nation at the time that Christ was here on the earth they had the right day but the wrong God and as a result of that kind of experience they persecuted those that had the truth I foresee that most anybody who holds to the truth with a firm conscience who will not bend under pressure will be not only kicked out of membership but literally persecuted by those who claim to be those that are God's people that don't actually hold to the truth I won't say more I guess because God raised up a people in 1844 to finish if you will the Protestant Reformation to usher in the righteousness of Christ and to bring an end to the work through Christ ministry in the most holy place they came to an understanding of all their foundational doctrines through the Bible and the Bible alone and yet God saw fit to put within their midst a prophet a messenger of his own devising who would give testimonies to the church now I think we would all readily agree that we were not supposed to be here this long in fact we read through the writings of James White that Jesus could have come in 1856 and then again in the early 1890s but because of our disobedience and I use that term generically we weren't around we now have the problems that we have today but remember all of the doctrinal truths that came to the seventh-day Adventist Church was through the Bible and then the edification of the writings of the testimonies through the Prophet now hear me on this one brother Butler earlier presented so many beautiful quotes from sister white about how the church has changed so it begs the question who are the real seventh-day Adventists I would submit to you that the organization today by embracing the Trinity doctrine has removed itself at least biblically from the name seventh-day adventists I don't care what they've trademarked but they have removed themselves from that name and I say that with all holy boldness it is the remnant within the remnant that will make it all the way through Ellen White never calls the church the organization or the organization the church the blood of those that believed like the Pioneers did in those first fifty years will be the seed of 144,000 let me say what I said one more time just in a really quick nutshell kind of way you can become a seventh-day Adventist with the Bible only correct because if we need the writings of sister white to become a seventh-day Adventist then that's false religion because the Bible is the rule and guide to our faith and practice however I would submit to you that you cannot be a seventh-day adventists and remain one and reject the testimonies and this is what the leadership has done they have rejected the testimonies you do the math next question Ellen White refers to Jesus as Almighty God how do we approach this from the Bible I have answered this question numerous times on Facebook and they they give snippets of a quote that seems to indicate that the father is not being called the Almighty God but rather Christ if I remember the context of the one I'm thinking of it's in Revelation chapter 4 it's using that term those those words now if you're careful in those sections and you see what's happening I don't recall where it's at I'm just going to give you from the top of my head I'm thinking the right one okay but so what we have in revelation 4 is the father alone in the heavenly kingdom he's there on the throne and the lamb comes in in chapter 5 so it's the father that is called out holy holy holy it's not the father son in the spirit like I used to teach as a Trinitarian but what happens is if you can if you look there at this quote you'll realize that Jesus is being praised for the glory or the righteousness of his father and his father is receiving the praise of holy holy holy the great or the Lord God Almighty and so I have as I said I've gone through that quote many times I don't recall where it's at but it every time I go through it and answer it on Facebook it's always the same conclusion in my head they are praising the father of our Lord Jesus Christ let me let me add one thing to that as well we can go through the entire we can go in Isaiah and to look at the holy holy holy concept we can go in Revelation chapter 1 which was and is and is to come Lord God Almighty all of these references every single one of them points to God the Father now we have to ask ourselves this question would Ellen White who is we believe to be a messenger of the Lord a prophetic voice would she go contrary to the scripture so what's happening then is that folk are actually intimated taking a stance that she is going contrary to what the Bible very clearly plays out and I'll leave it at that a dragon beast false prophet a counterfeit four F comma s comma HS what video explains this the f HS you Father send the holy spirit yeah okay I have a video online entitled the fraud head F naught G fraud fraud head and not frog either some people say that but it could because revelation 16 verse 13 talks about the three frogs coming out of the mouth of the Dragon the beast and the false prophet but it's the fraud head it's a fraud it's a fake and so you can see that or there's I've got another one that's Christ is a beast I've done it many different times but if you send me an email I love you and send you a link to that if you're interested phme or you can find my contact information there okay that ends the questions that we have that have been brought in written questions is are there any questions that anyone would like to ask from the floor there's a microphone in the middle aisle well he's making his way to the mic I want to answer that that last one a little bit about the fraud head fraud head the dragon the beast and the false prophet you have the dragon representing Satan and you have the Beast who is the Beast papacy right who does the Beast the papacy say he is Vicar of Christ so you have the father and the son Satan wanted to be in the council's he wanted to ultimately be like the father so you have a false father a false son and then you have the false prophet you have a false spirit in the people that follow the first - well in Revelation 14 you have just the antithesis of this you have a one true God in the first angels message come and worship him you know and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has come and then you have come out of Babylon the false church into the true Church of which Christ is the head so now you have the father the true father and the true son and then you have those that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus that do not take the mark you have their spirit of the first - living in a people and you see the results of each the entire world is going to be polarized into two groups not three but two groups and you have one following the true Godhead and one following the false one more thought on that - before Kevin goes to the mic and that is building upon the fraud head as I mentioned this morning Satan wants to be in a place of exaltation and of worship so it's only through his deceptions that we get three and one he is called the father of lies in John chapter 8 he is called the son of perdition through Judas in John chapter 17 and he's called the spirit of error in 1st John chapter 4 and Paul calls him the god of this world so we see we have God the father of lies God the son of perdition and God the spirit of error there is your Trinity but it's certainly not the one true God his divine son and their spirit there's a counterfeit for everything that God has genuine right but people are saying is that Satan has a counterfeit that the Trinity's truthers 3 that's why he come up with the fraud head that the three unclean frogs wouldn't that be the counterfeit to God he's counterfeiting it you know what I'm saying Dustin yeah I do but there's an irony that comes into play because when you look at the council we know that the council is between them both right right Satan's original desire was to be in that council right he wanted to make two into three right okay the irony of all this is that him and his angels Satan and his angels were thrown out of heaven right Ellen White says the number of redeemed will equal the number of fallen angels so the irony of all this is that those who share the throne of God in the end for eternity are going to be accomplishing through Christ what Satan wanted in the first place what one other thing on that too just so you know when you go into the sanctuary in the holy place and you look to the north you see the table of showbread there are two crowns on that table you have a superior and an inferior crown and you have two stacks of six loaves Satan wanted to go into that council he wanted to be that third if you will consequently he then invents himself as the Trinity God and remember there were six stacks each one representative of the father and the son so if you were to add well six six loaves two stacks if you were to add a third stack of six what would you get six-six-six and that's exactly who he is okay so we just need to understand that ultimately that points to the evil one the adversary listen to these presentations today and heard all the questions and answers in my mind and maybe in some of the others of you here you may be one we may be wondering and the thought crossed my mind who are we saying the Seventh day Adventist churches now is she just a sister of Babylon or has she something more than death I would say dear brother take your time to read Ezekiel chapter 16 very carefully I just like to point out a verse in Acts chapter 20 verse 28 that I was not answered at the last conference in the new ya acts 20 verse 28 we had commented earlier on acts 20:28 but what was your question again please can you please explain it for me sure yes it was that the Spirit of God that shed his blood is that how God could die for us somewhat I do not believe God died for us because we are told an inspiration that divinity did not die the Son of God died for us in Christ Jesus the Son of Man he became man for the very reason of suffering death for us and when when we are told that it was the Holy Spirit essentially that shed its blood for us it's referring back to Christ it's not referring to a separate entity but the one whose spirit it is the one whose spirit was working in the church the spirit of him who was walking up and down between the candlesticks the one who's has the seven angels in his hands ministering to his people it's that individual who shed his blood and part of the reason why I can see it wasn't the Father is because in Matthew 16 verse 17 Jesus is responding to Peter and he says blessed art thou simon barjona for flesh and blood hath not revealed them to you but my father which is in heaven so my my Jesus father didn't have flesh and blood and then my reference before of Luke 24 is in verse 39 behold my hands and my feet that it is I myself handle me and see for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see me have so the spirit couldn't have shed his blood along those lines there's a corollary question that comes out of that and that is well was Jesus not divine well of course he was divine he was the Divine Son of God while here on earth however recall that as he was hanging on the cross and he was taking upon the sins of the world he yielded up the ghost right the spirit that the life that the father had that was in Christ now goes back to the father because right isn't that when somebody dies the spirit that God gave goes back to God aren't we told that in the the wisdom of Ecclesiastes so to that end the very life that Jesus had was a divine life and therefore the divinity did not died on the cross could not die on the cross it went back to God who gave it and here is the very scary thing that creeps out of this his folk are wanting to say that Jesus didn't really die or that he raised himself from the dead the problem is if Jesus didn't really die and wasn't really dead then we're all dead in our sins moreover this borders on the whole idea that the dead are not really dead and now that is one of the major links to spiritualism so we need to keep that in mind as well is there anyone else there's been a lot of good questions written here tonight and it shows that a lot of you are questioning and thinking and I hope that the answers that were given satisfied your question that will conclude our service for tonight and let's let's have a word of Prayer as we close gracious Lord and Heavenly Father we thank you for your great love for us and a sacrifice that was made for us without you we are nothing but with you we have the promise of eternal life and that is so precious to us Lord keep us faithful to you in the days ahead and keep us as witnesses for you when we have the opportunity to witness may we not shy away from it but be bold in the truth that you have presented to us we thank you in Jesus name Amen [Music] you

Channel: Pioneer Health and Missions

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Length: 61min 16sec (3676 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 26 2018