Q & A Session - All Speakers

fine as you find your seats so that we can maximize this time I want just to I George Thompson who is masterfully overseeing all of the literature for us asked if I would be happy to comment on on two books and the answer is I'm happy to comment on more than two books but particularly to these two books and one is by Christopher Ashe and the other is by Sinclair Ferguson Sinclair when he was preaching to us on Sunday morning or Sunday evening which was the go-to verse was at Romans in the morning the morning yet so we're thinking about the fact that there are that there are scripture passages in the Bible that are go to passages that in relationship to certain things you would go to them routinely and then I was talking just now about the importance of staying away from isolation and not being absent in in contexts that are vital to us and useful to us and then of course the extension of that in relationship to friendship and the friendships that we form with people that we've never met through books especially old books so that folks that we look forward to meeting one day we only know by extension as a result of their impact on us and all of us have those kind of books it is a double pleasure then when we not only have the benefit of the book beside us in our study but we have access to the to the author themselves and I have to say to you that that both Christopher ash and and sinker are go-to people for me in terms of both their writing and also in their preparedness to answer my my many questions and this book by Christopher Ashe is on marriage if you were here a couple of years ago when he was present engage them in conversation you will know that he has written very very helpfully about a lot of things and not least of all about making your marriage the best that it can be and so I want to commend this book to you it has been republished it's published by cross way and it it will be a terrific help to you this this other book by Sinkler I'm not sure if it's this latest but it's close to his latest devoted to God blueprints for sanctification and I don't want to take time on it except except to say that it is has proved to be for me just a phenomenal help in clarifying a lot of things and helping to weave the way through in terms of the the the place of the law of God and the life of the Christian in distance in oneself from antinomianism on the one hand and legalism on the other as with as with everything that Sinkler does because he is a good teacher you can you can get stuck on this is so clear so if you have only got whatever much money left that you need to buy these then I'm sure Tom Thompson gives discounts so this one's $12.99 which is like 13 and and this one because as a blue cover is 18 so now I defer to one of my young colleagues here who's Jonathan who's going to guide us through this Q&A dr. Mora and dr. Pearson thanks for being here we have a variety of questions of course you are free to chime in on any as you see fit and some are particularly addressed to you as individuals and others to the three of you together starting out it may be important for us just to get this off the table is the elephant in the room but after a variety of questions have accused you of being a Baptist would you like to address that is it guilty as charged [Applause] Jonathan yes sir I thought we were all Baptist I didn't ask the question sir dr. Mohler you said that guilt is or can be a gift as a culture do you see us moving from a focus on guilt maybe it's more of a focus on shame and how do we address that in the church with people who struggle from pervasive guilt or even just a right sense of guilt switch mics here guilt and shame are not the same thing but they're not unrelated of course and both of them can be natural and rightful responses to sin so there's a there's a right shame that it can attach itself to sin there's a right guilt that is perceived and when I say guilt here I'm not just talking about the forensic category of guilt but the experience of guilt when I was talking about with that Wilma clay article is the fact that and he's very perceptive about this that you have a society that has for over a century now done everything it can to deny the category of guilt but guilt persists and of course we have a good theological explanation for that in our society the assumption really is of moral neutrality on the part of humanity if not a propensity to good then at least a moral neutrality and there is the the Freudian presumption that if we experience guilt it's because of the or shame for this matter it's because of society's wrongful judgment against us that's been internalized and causes all the problem but not only does guilt persist shame persists so very interesting on American college campus right now with all this identity politics and intersectionality and all the rest it's just a different form of shaming so you actually have people who who claim to be moral relativists who will turn with tremendous energy and force in judgment upon those who disagree and and so that that is still very much going on it's really really interesting on the abortion question this is the here's where I think again is Wilma clay will talk about the persistence of guilt I don't talk about the persistence of shame so for the last 30 or 40 years the those who have been pushing abortion have been trying to celebrate abortion but it just won't work so even a few weeks ago an effort was started by a bunch of pro-abortion to try to say you know beyond shame give a hashtag beyond shame the problem is it fell flat why because it's shameful it's shameful for an ontological reason and so look guilt and shame still persist but there is no judgment more severe than the judgment made by the non-judgmental okay thank you we we had a few questions that dealt with as a pastor what do you do when you are struggling with or you feel like you're losing zeal and particularly when you come to a conference or meet with pastors who are encouragement to you can have a sense for lack of a better word of a spiritual high of sorts what do you recommend for men who are currently struggling with that zeal and that's for for any of you go back to work I think often conferences I don't know about Tim owl and Alistair I rarely come to a conference like this without thinking what am i doing here I notice the giftedness and the ease the others have and that leaves its impression on me and then I remember I'm not called to be either of these individuals so I will not find the resolution or the solution to the struggles I've got either by wishing to be them or or by going home and mimicking them but going back to the basic task I have which is with the congregation that I might serve if I'm if I'm a gospel minister and being nourished by the word and nourishing them by the word because that's what God has called me to do and you know I think the the more you watch people that you have known the more you realize where you where you end up and the amount of encouraging feedback that you get it is ultimately a matter of God's providence and we need to learn to rest and I think sometimes this is the struggle that we we don't rest content with the flock and ministry that God has given to us and as was it John Brown said to a young man with couple of hundred people in his congregation when it comes to the day of judgment you'll you will not be over anxious about the fact that the Lord gave you two hundred people for whom your soul was answerable and so you know sticking to our task recognizing our gifts and growing within that context for me in some ways the most haunting statement and the Paschal epistles as when Paul says to Timothy make sure everyone sees your progress and you know that Richard to me that really is a verse to hold out before myself with these people God has called me to grow and as I seek to do that discouragement will give way to encouragement it's good and glad you stopped there because that's you know for still early for I got it that's tomorrow afternoon but I'll take your notes a big double just make sure we all see your program that's that's why I'm asking for the notes yeah pastors conferences are dangerous for that I think we synchronize friend in Ireland who worked for a long while in a in a farming community in the north of Ireland and Ted and I was at a conference with him and he was addressing something like this and he had said to one of the farmers in his congregation that he was at he was attending a conference of Ministers and and the farmer said to me said and I won't try and do an Irish accent because we're folks here from Ireland but he said to me said you know he said you you you you pastors are like done he said like dong and so the minister said well in what way he said well he said he said when when dung is spread evenly over a wide space is tremendously helpful but when you get a big pile of it together [Applause] so from the sublime to the ridiculous but in actually an actual fight part the the great joy in a conference like this I think is it is in sitting down with somebody just this maybe I'll suggested it and apparently a haphazard encounter and you realize that although separated by time and distance and age and geography that there's a genuine sense of empathy that is related to our understanding of what it is we've been called to do and in in us in a simple encounter like that I often find the greatest the greatest benefit and the other thing in answer to the fellows question what do I do you know take yourself to your hem book and go and part your car with a decent hem book and and and maybe I seen yourself back into into into a sweetness of spirit I'll just add one thing very short very concrete probably unexpected if you need a recharge in ministry don't talk to the people who you think can help you with that go teach children Sunday school and catch the infectious joy and and you'll take that with you into the pulpit this is a sort of follow-up question to that if you are working through a book particularly a long one and you started out very excited and it doesn't have the same purchase in your heart as it used to have is there a good reason to stop and to pause should you keep going how do you make a decision like that well I once started 119 son and I got through two weeks and I decided to put a bullet in it before someone put a bullet in me and so I think the second decision is very important you know you can all launch into a great series in Jeremiah and and I actually into in all seriousness so in terms of in a book where there is a prolonged period before us I what I learned from Derek prime was that it is it's helpful to to take pauses in the midst of that particularly if it's perhaps a book like Jeremiah or even a shorter book than that but and sometimes the the unfolding of the church calendar if we pay any attention to it at all helps us with that that we're going to come in to Easter or perhaps we're alert to the fact that it is ascension Sunday or whatever it might be and so that there there are sort of obvious places for us to to pause and then to return but I wouldn't want to make too much of that either because God in His Providence may be teaching our things in their hardness and difficulty of our own study in order to do things in eyes that need to be done that will not be done if we run away from them just because they're there being hard and a sense of divine of flatus in coming to the text and then expounding the text there's not necessarily any indication of the rightness of what we're doing or definitely of the benefit of what we're doing if we actually believe what we've been affirming in the first 24 hours can concerning the the absolute sufficiency of the scripture itself that are our confidence is in the fact that we spread our in our bread on the water and go from there sorry to take so long you know most of our wives probably do most of the cooking you know seven days a week or for some six days a week week after week year after year same old same old same old same old and so it would be arrogant son our part to think that we are above the bread and butter daily slog of it so that's one thing I think the other thing is this we may now be in a season you know the reflecting of what I said last night we may now be in a season clear expository ministry is regarded as being synonymous with the systematic vast by verse going through the text of Scripture and I would say two things about that one is that that puts us very much in the minority even in the history of reformed theology and I think we need to remember that the second thing is you would have to work very hard to demonstrate but that's how the Apostles handle the text of the Old Testament so while I've always engaged in systematic biblical exposition I think we need to be very careful lest we fall into the trap of thinking but unless we are doing well all the time we are held guilty before the judgment seat of God and from my one point of view I see that as the usually the wisest and best thing to do but it needs to be done with great wisdom it can be disastrous I've seen men trying to fit into that mold and are not well wired for that mold at the stage in their ministry when they try to do it because they've they've listened to Alistair doing it and I think we just need to be careful about our consciences at this point and so there's a there's a balance here in which we need help and we may need to speak to somebody about it is wiser than we are as to whether we persist in the series or whether we recognize there are things that we have tried to chew especially if we're younger ministers but you know we don't really have the the teeth to be able to do like it because we see people doing it who've been doing it for 30 years and we assume that's what we should do as well so I personally you know I've quite often said to two younger ministership that I'm really excited about this you know they they listened they held Alistair preaching listen I've got to preach on that and I plead with and please don't preach with on that if you've got really excited about that listening to Alistair preach on it please for the people's sake for heaven's sake for your own sake please don't preach online because you're not ready to preach on that just because it's excited you so there are a lot of subtleties here in terms of how we come to know ourselves and our gifts and I better shut up because uh I into my mind come a number of comments about what all did in that last session to say if you were really excited about that just be very cautious about going home and preaching on John chapter nine that's something you're not al Mohler I mean even al Mohler is not al mola I feel that let me let me just offer this by my own concern about my own preaching trying to figure out because I'm on my website it's based on local church ministry exposition right now at 3rd Avenue Baptist Church and Louisville you know verse by verse now in Exodus and as my wife says we don't measure these in hours or weeks we measure them in years going through Exodus but I was really helped by a close analysis and I did this not just out of interest but out of concern so just to take to preachers John Calvin and Martyn lloyd-jones we associate both of them with verse by verse exposition exegesis but here's a liberating thing they don't preach every chapter the same way I was very helpful helped by finding in Martin lloyd-jones even going through Romans where he will say but this I've discussed already in other words it's it's it's it's a verse by verse exposition that is building on what's come before and so if you're preaching maybe your slogged down because you're trying to preach every paragraph in exactly the same way and for instance I'm spending a lot of time right now we are just in the middle of Exodus 20 we're not rushing through Exodus 20 I don't want to rush through anything but some of the historical narrative doesn't take nearly the the kind of expositional attention that Exodus 20 does so my favorite line in Monty Python's Holy Grail yeah is where the one priest says to the other as he's reading skip a bit brother and sometimes we need to just skip along a bit and not get soft unlikely quotes I recognize that Jonathan can I just move from Monty Python to John Calvin Miguel I am so shocked yeah every night I was shocked to see our without a tie yesterday and now Monty Python Calvin preached everyday that is different why joins was a textual preacher who could preach narrative I mean some of his narrative preaching is published that he was not like Calvin Calvin was not a textual preacher he was a sectional preacher there were times when he stopped on tags light Jones went through Romans as a textual preacher and that's a different phenomenon from what most of us are engaged in doing so you know I think we we just need to be very careful to understand the the context and giftedness of the people who become our models and not try and fit ourselves into a mold into which we into which we don't fit Jesus you know as I was saying I know many people have said to me I find Paul preaching preaching Paul easy I find preaching st. Kings difficult and you know under my breath I say I know I've heard you're doing boy and you preach 2nd Kings as law Paul had written it and you're needing to learn how to preach 2nd Kings and you need to grow before you're going to be able to do that and it is a matter of grow and we do need people who loitered some self is this in preaching and preachers he describes this situation where he was you know up there at the kenneth and your meetings that they used to have and he preaches and then this all by at tea-time at the break time what we would call coffee time sits down with him and says you know you're trying to say far too much to them and then he said to lie joins two light joints he said you just listened to I do and he realized then that this man had grown sufficiently not to say too much to the congregation and I said things to be able to do but it takes real cross excellent dr. Moore you mentioned that you listen to a lot of sermons throughout the week and maybe this applies to all of you do you have favourites to listen to that we might not know about and also how do we make sure what we just talked about a little bit that we don't become parrots of our favorite people and how do we guard against that I'm actually reluctant to give names I don't know that would be as helpful and and sometimes I need to listen to someone I'm not recommending thank you I know you know you know exactly what I mean you know exactly what I mean for my edification I tend to listen a lot to people who are dead the sermons that are still available martyn lloyd-jones for example I but I would say the best way to avoid becoming someone else is not to listen to one person but to listen to a fairly wide variety of persons and this is one of the gifts of a technological age you have access to Alastor John McArthur you could just go down the list all these people he's going to lick in your ministry site and consider how many messages are available from people there's not enough time to listen to all the people we would like to hear and I really don't want to recommend again I'm not sure they'd be most edifying but I would say listen too many you know adopt someone new don't just listen to one listen to two or three and then learn move on and by the way another thing that is important about being at a conference listening to someone preach in a recording is not the same as being in the room as he preaches and so one of the things I say to students on the seminary campuses look you're you can do this now in a way you're not gonna be able to this any other time if there's someone you wanna you want to hear go hear him and I mean go just get the car and drive get two or three friends go and go in here because there's something about hearing a man I never got to hear Lloyd Jones at Westminster Chapel I wish I had but I I never had that opportunity but when I was a college student I determined I was going to try to miss as few as possible hearing them preach in their church if at all possible yes I think it really is important to go and hear them in in the church it's different you know they're at home there and I think another thing I you know if people if students ask what do I do you know to whom do I listen I think you know what I'll says is so wise you got to listen to a number but you've also got to listen with with two heads on your neck one is your personal head in order to be nourished and instructed and challenged by the word but if you're going to learn from this there needs to be another head in which you're asking the question what is there about the way this man is handling the text that makes it so helpful to me and that will help to avoid the problem of just trying to sound like him or if you see him developing the same mannerisms as him you know so that's one thing another thing is which I find pretty fascinating because I don't know if it's still there in homiletics teaching my observation is it has tended to be despised by modern seminary students the old masters you know and all the older texts on preaching they emphasize the use of the voice and I don't know whether we are now in an age because of things like this you know that people think you know I mean men can come to some rethinking the one thing I can do is preach and that's why I'm here and there they never apparently develop the humility to see that the voice is the instrument that employs the words and the voice is your voice and it needs to be sanctified it needs to be developed your ability to use it needs to be developed it's part of your sanctification and I think that's a you know what I've said to people is okay try and try and find some recordings of really Orthodox man preaching on texts who are completely dullards and then find your local hero preacher preaching on that text and listen to the difference in the voices or even get the transcribed text and or listen to the dullard preaching her and then in a nanosecond transcribe that into the way in which a preacher that you much admire and with whom you've some familiarity put those words into his voice and you will immediately see the difference that actually involves the use of the voice now the voice is not detached from the person but neither is the person detached from the voice and just as we are to grow in grace and to make progress on our gifts I think we we need to encourage younger man not to assume that they've got all the necessary gifts nor that of course they're able to use the voice because they've been called to preach and one of the things I think I've noticed and you sometimes notice as you move from culture to culture is the lack of pathos in much contemporary preaching the lack of pathos which means that the preaching is going to be instructional and cognitive but if that's what preaching was you know people could just send their brains to the service you know they could leave and get coffee for the body and I think we really need to be helped to understand that pathos is an important element and it's got to do in part with the way in which the use of the voice matches the teaching of the scripture if it's going to be communicated by vocal employment of words to living souls who are emotional as well as cerebral individuals and and it's sharp they're so good I mean this yeah I was just going to quote you from your introduction to your book because you you talk about that when you take something that was said and then you transfer it to the to the written page that the direct transference of it does not work because it's an entirely different vehicle of communication and so if you try and do that in Reverse then just as you say it can convey all the things that you hope for it to convey without actually having any pathetic element to it at all no it's good it's helpful Alastor this one specifically for you for a pastor has just begun at a place where expositional preaching has has not been the historical norm but he doesn't want to be blunt in changing things for the congregation what are some particular recommendations that you might make about a way to begin that and to encourage his people as they learn how to listen differently and also interacts differently with the with God's Word well not to do it like a young man trying cautiously prayerfully and don't tell them that you're doing it there's no need no there's no need to make an announcement I mean that's that's that's just bringing you know it's just putting you're putting yourself in a difficult spot I mean most people don't have any they don't even understand the categories they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to discriminate and even if they could I think it's entirely possible to for example what I would do is I would I would do something that was short if I was going to work through let's say Philippians the four chapters of Philippians and I might set it up in such a way that I give an overview of the book and what the emphasis of the book was and create a sense of anticipation for the people and then to say and you know this morning we're just going to take a look at the opening section of this and hopefully do it in a way that is marred by sufficient brevity and pathos and and clarity of expression and not an attempt to move them according to your particular agenda of preaching style but because they are the flock they are the Sheep they are need of the food that the greatest concern that you have for them is that they would be well-fed not that the mechanism that you're employing would be first of all understood by them or even appreciated by them and so I guess I you know I when I when I was first on my own in in 77 actually I'm just I mean that's that's what I did actually I started Philippians and the congregation that I inherited had never had anybody teach through a book before it was all topical preaching but I didn't stand up and announce you know I'm going to approach this in a different way I just said let's read this morning from Philippians 1 and then and then we did part of that and then when we came back I said let's just pick it up from where we were and unwittingly the people just kind of caught the rhythm of it and and and we we didn't look back at the same time and you know being able to not become a slave to the very methodology itself I would do guest services in the evening which were overtly evangelistic in purpose we would print cards to invite folks to church and on those occasions I would approach the subject matter somewhat differently than from what I was doing in the morning and so the thing is that the people then get a give you what we what we long for is that the people will get such a sense of we wanted to go out go and well actually I could have done that because it was so clear although they couldn't have but they could have and and also they said I can't wait for next week to find out what happens he you get I talking about talking to the children when we did the children's talks in the evening and we've done it together John you know when you tell any story to the children you say and then John said to his friend next Sunday evening we'll hear what John said to his friend and they're like oh come on and and that's what we want as that's what we want to have in ourselves like listening to John Knight you're like come on yeah let's go yeah come on you know because it is leading you on and the methodology is entirely subservient to that you know because coming back to the thing as we've already said you know let's take let's take let's take John star for example John start did not go quotes verse by verse through ephesians john start possessed in my estimate is asian an uncanny ability to thread the needle right through a passage of scripture and to see it broke and open in such a way that he said ice that's quite incredible and I never I never saw that but it wasn't because there was a kind of turgut approach to look at verse 1 look at verse 2 look at verse 3 but in actual fight he was he wasn't bypassing any of the material but it just had an immense gift and a peculiar skill in doing that and that's why he's so difficult to read before you preach because I find it precious difficult to understand the passage in any other way than the way he's actually outlined it because he's so he's so jolly good at it amen and just very quickly I think we have to free ourselves from and Sinkler made this clear we have to free ourselves from believing that exposition can't happen unless you are preaching through a book by that definition if you show up as a guest anywhere you can't do exposition because you can't preach through the whole book so if you take someone like Charles Spurgeon you can be an expository talk about a new pastor going to a church I agree entirely with Alistair don't don't get up and say what you're going to do I actually don't want to cook to do that either you know I'm gonna gonna skin the chicken you want to watch what I want to do is eat and so for the congregation do the same thing just get up and feed them and and and I do believe it's appetitive they will want more and as a good farmer you will know when to plant more yeah I think it's I think it is really helpful as a starter to preach on something but people imperiously the people think they're familiar with you know if we are in a world where we're so used to systematic expository preaching we may not know that most evangelical Christians I believe the vast number of evangelical Christians if you ask them just give me the outline of any of the 66 books of the Bible I think the failure rate would be phenomenal so they've not been nurtured actually to land what the Bible is saying just what these spasmodic verses here and they are saying and if you take something that they are familiar with because they're the bits of the Bible they really love but if you said tell me what's there they would be at loss then that really you know you begin I think to nourish them sufficiently for it to dawn on them this is doing something to me that that wasn't doing to me you know now I like I I know what was going on in Philippians whereas all I thought was it was it was to get me through lunchtime on Sunday you know a text here and a text there and I am absolutely agree with with Alastair now you know the worst thing you can do especially if you're a young man and mostly especially if you've gone into a church where an older man has been there for some time who's not been as good a preacher as you who hasn't had the theological education that you've had and you announce I am here to give you expository preaching and you don't realize this man loved these people to death for 20 years which is why they were prepared to listen to his mediocre preaching and feed themselves on it so you know you a Spurgeon said whoa oh no well I started said the Lord said feed my sheep not my giraffe right honestly he did say that this will be the other end of the spectrum this comes a question from an older gentleman who's a pastor of a smaller congregation and thinking about what will exiting look like for him should he simply concentrate on being faithful and continuing and at the same time how does he think about investing maybe in a younger man or encouraging the elders of the church to pursue that process do you have recommendations that you would make for that I'm jumping in the deep end of the pool here I'm I'm soon to be in my 25th year as president at Southern Seminary of before that very involved in the denomination obviously is a pastor in the local church I can just tell you and again I don't mean this as a public statement which I'm now making in public but I think two of the scariest words in the English language put together our search committee over time I have much less confidence in that process now it can produce some wonderful pastors and churches and but over time I've just seen increasingly the liabilities of believing that somehow we just preach till we stop and then somehow the congregation I'm assuming a free church context here the congregation is going to find its way to a pastor I think the New Testament models far more Paul investing in Timothy and and in others whom he mentions and deploying them in ministry I think one of the sweetest things about that relationship is is what Paul's effectively saying to congregations is if you have Timothy you have me and I think I would just encourage pastors to think more in those terms now churches are congregations of congregation so they will do and are empowered to do and responsible to do what they must do in the stewardship of their pulpit but I'll just tell you I believe that they ought at least to have the knowledge I think the pastor ought to know that if he were to walk away there would be someone that the congregation would know is is is a man to whom they can turn a voice that is already recognizable a commitment and testimony they've already seen tangibly and I just I just would commend that I think just I mean God is sovereign and yes that can that can mean that some search committees just too marvelous work but I will tell you what search committees have to start working with is now so little and I don't mean in terms of qualified candidates but so little information and and your entrusting this to people who really don't want this job and they don't want it starting from zero so loving your church and helping them not to start at zero would I think be a good place you're retired yeah I retired I absolutely homologate what I was just sent its yeah sorry yeah it was good you like that I could write that down in your we moleskin book we've got different church polities and I think that for some of us may be a problem in the 19th century in Scotland they used to have a position known as colleague and successor we are when the old boy was manifestly heading to the future they would they had a mechanism by which em the the elders could bring the next man in so that they would work together and I the denomination I men didn't have that quality but the congregation I served had that experience and I had often wondered and tried to find in biographies and the like is there any is there any analysis of how well this worked did it work and I had this theory that one of the ways that it would work was this but when the younger man came over a period of time the congregation saw something that they would never see by the method that we tend to use today they would never see a the esteem that the older man had for the younger man the affection and trust he had in him and the like esteem and affection but the younger man had for the older man that man that when the older man went into the future whether on his feet or in a box they did not feel that they were having to take affection from him and no starter with him nor did they feel that if things went in a somewhat different trajectory into the future and after all the future is the future so we should move forward into the new contemporary they didn't feel that he was betraying the Ministry of the past because they knew that the old boy had trusted him and I you know I think I would now say you know many of us possibly don't have that quality maybe many of us don't have any such quality for all I know but just as an existential testimony to how that works you know I would say hey if that's possible that is definitely the way and I think what I'll says is is absolutely right on it was something of this pattern that you see in the in the in the New Testament so much so I think in Philippians you know Philippians 2 where Paul is speaking about I'm sending a path for a Titus but he's talking about Timothy I'm pretty sure they wanted Timothy they wanted Timothy they didn't want they knew a powerful Titus they wanted they wanted Timothy back why because they had seen that relationship between Paul and Timothy in in a very special way I know that's not always possible but where it is possible it's a wonderful thing I don't need to add to that as wonderfully helpful on both camps you're in charge if you get me fired it's on you well if I understood Sinkler correctly he was essentially saying that in the best of circumstances in the 19th century where that was where that was in existence it was it was a happy way for it to to unfold I mean it you didn't mention your own circumstance but I would think in some measure the transition from yourself to Derek Thomas was exactly that and that the very companionship and compatibility of the two of you at multiple levels despite the distinctions in your personality and and and gifts and so on has I would imagine and from what I've been able to determine has has proved to be a happy thing so that although you're separated by an ocean the affection that you have for not only the congregation you've left behind but also for Derek whom you have left behind is is is equally shared coming this week coming the other way across the ocean if you are asking about the idea of bringing somebody in from the outside as an unknown quantity and introducing them then that does not hold as much appeal for me if you're asking for an opinion my own personal hope although I would thought the question was fixed would be that somewhere out of the the wealth of colleagues that I have enjoyed over this period of 34 years that God has potentially my successor in that group as to what day and in what context one of them out of the group either present or in another place as of now would become that person then I don't know and you know we pray to that end and for wisdom in that way but the idea of you know a search committee producing a fellow from you know Boston who's going to come to Park site and in a period of time he's going to you know we're going to create I don't even like the sound of that mechanism I understand the question I know of churches that have done this I would simply say in in sync with Alistair I would not think that the ideal situation I think far more ideal is what we were talking about what Sinclair laid out I will say the one thing that is helpful for many of these intentional a transitional interims is when there is the following of a catastrophe and we certainly want to pray to avoid catastrophe but sometimes there is a catastrophe and I can say that our denomination is served by several retired pastors who have tremendous credibility and they have been able to go into a situation for a period of time after a catastrophe and help to bring about a church ready to well look to the next pastor so I will simply say it's not the ideal but when there is a problem that can be a helpful way of dealing with it but we certainly aspire to avoid catastrophe good thank you we've talked a little bit about godliness and giftedness and godliness being our first priority obviously purity is an incredibly significant issue made from the standpoint of preparing and equipping young men in undergraduate seminary how do you equip those men and how do we create environments where people can be honest but also be accountable and how do we how do we help those men as they get ready for pastor it rolls well sin is as old as the garden but one of the things we have to recognize let me mention two one is the opportunities for sin sin seizing the opportunity that that the opportunities have multiplied in an unprecedented way such that there were protections I wasn't even aware of when I was a young man simply by a lack of access that are now gone and I mean completely gone and so there were decisions I never had to make to me because they were made for me by a society by a community by parents by the entire structure and technologically it weren't available the second thing is I think we have to recognize that young men being called by God into the ministry are not being called out of some isolation in the society and in the culture they're they're being called out of this society and and and and thus one of the challenges that comes to me as a seminary president is I am dealing with many young men training for the pastor it who have struggled with things I didn't even know about at that stage in life and that are now permanent parts of the of the equation they're baked into the cake of this society and I think we have to have far more conversation about these things than was even necessary in times past there has to be a lot more scrutiny self scrutiny yes but there needs to be far more external scrutiny in the life of one tomb is going to be entrusted leadership in the church and the teaching ministry of the church there has to be an incredible intentionality now I believe amongst the elders of the church and and all those who I mean I I think all the first Timothy and Titus qualifications may even husband of one wife that takes on an even greater urgency I think in this context in terms of accountabilities related to living a life of purity and structural protections against sin and a life that is open to scrutiny and expecting scrutiny simply because I don't think we have any other choice so unfortunately that is one of those questions that could consume us but rightly it's a heartbreaking question but I think it's a question that isn't as new I mean I began by saying there are new aspects to this but you know in the midst of the Roman Empire how would a young man who had been raised in Rome be nurtured into holiness and into purity I don't think he can do it himself I I think it takes a church I think it takes scrutiny I think it takes teaching I think it takes takes a lot more than most churches are willing to invest in one another much less in terms of the leadership of the church you know I think I would say to young men eh quit the technology don't have whatever it is and don't be on whatever is that makes you the same as your contemporaries and over the long haul you will probably do better and I you know I would say to a theological student a lot of the books that your professors will tell you to read will give you a good theological framework that's what they'll they're far but you need an entirely parallel theological education however difficult it's going to be for you because to use illustrations from my universe of discourse Hanuman read our boss and your hardest force will not equip you to be a pastor of souls they will give you equipment and architecture but you're going to live the whole of your life as I'm going to soar on a building site and so you need to for your own sake read other kinds of books and for better or for worse most of those books were written by dead men and you need to go and read dead man you need to realize you're dead you need to know you shouldn't sound like them because you'll be dead soon if you sound like them but you need to read them and you need to you need to make the great sacrifice I I don't know anything about the Benedictine way until you know I arrive in Cleveland and discover you know it's there it's the discussion point what Calvin was trying to do was to turn ordinary people living in Geneva in to people who excelled way beyond the self discipline of the monastery because their righteousness exceeded that of the righteousness and the Pharisees because we had the gospel and we are living now in a pathetically flabby season of young men in the ministry and we need to make a new call for self-denying ordinances otherwise we detach ourselves from the patterns of gospel ministry in the past you know Alastair quoted yesterday did you probably he could have caught it yesterday it's in one of those more skin books will you ask him a question about those more skin books I want to ask you a question what have most been good you know what what money McShane says my peoples greatest need is my personal godliness and we need to have an absolutely riveted in our minds or the qualifications for the ministry to which we are called include being apt to teach but most of them are your life needs to be hold up above before the congregation so that if anyone who's not a Christian comes into the church and says what is a Christian like they can say see that man there that's what a Christian is like otherwise we're we're dead in the water and we need that call for for holiness desperately need that call for holiness because we've got we're awash with being cool yeah I time is probably gone let me just say again it's two sinkers embarrassment but that this this book here is phenomenally helpful in relationship to these things and to the flabby aspect of it and I sucked my stomach in just as he was saying that and in fact I can hardly breathe at the moment and the reader read the rediscovery of grace and the justifiable and necessary emphasis on the amazing saving keeping grace of God brings with it the almost inevitable potential for the pendulum swing to remove us from the realm of all of the imperatives of the New Testament and I was struck by this in doing this passage in 1st Timothy 4 because I find out the bell was ringing in the back of my mind all the time but this is so this is a watch yourself do not neglect make them see your progress immerse yourself practice this don't do that do that command them do this it's all dududududu that all starts with this here and if I would say one thing about observing young younger gays that I I am fearful that unless there is a real willingness to set the magnificence of the grace of God within the framework of the demands of God upon our lives that our company that a grout of that are embedded in that then there's who's to say what a decade and a half will produce in terms of the contemporary if I might pick up on your flabby generation of young guys who are given themselves a pass on language the language that they use what's your what that your speed should be seasoned with sold and full of grace forget that that they are given themselves a pass on the movies that they watch that they're given themselves a pass on the boots that they read on the engagements in which they share because they go back and keep singing the say the same old songs all over again when an actual fight they need to understand that that the the the justifying that God does not justify those whom he does not sanctify and that the process of sanctification in the life of the believer in the life of the pastor is is of absolutely crucial nature and part of it I think has to do with all of the other things that have been said but of just the potential of telling lies to yourself and then you'll tell lies to anybody the belt of truth is absolutely crucial in the preparation of righteousness that is given to us and at the heart of it is a ruthlessness of a truthfulness about ourselves that I so that when you're in your car you can't confront it by these temptations and you are struck by that that you you're not starting seeing you're not singing songs about grace to yourself you're saying Lord Jesus this is not right for me to think this way you died for me that I might live unto godliness so that you know the daily repentance of Luther the constant short keeping of these things rather than approaching it like the average Roman Catholic who can build up six days of sin go to confession dump it have a good day go to Mass start off you got another free pass for the next six days there's a huge danger than that and so we have to encourage each other in that sorry yeah that's a good word thank you one brief word for you just to let you know our time is done we will be going to lunch and if you just follow the same directives as yesterday that would be a huge help to us and then also if you want to close us that would be great thank you thank you John for those of you are wondering about 8:30 tonight so am I I haven't decided what we might do if there's anybody here we'll do something if nobody's here then we'll be glad and all can go for ice cream but it's just really an opportunity for us to be together I didn't want to tackle anything again out of selfishness or laziness or fearfulness or whatever maybe it maybe sinker will stay with me and we'll talk some more maybe my friend Terry McCutcheon will talk with me a little bit maybe we'll who knows what we'll do maybe Jeff Williams the colonel from the space station who was with us a few years ago who's with us maybe he'd be prepared to talk with me for a couple of minutes I just don't know what we'll do in that time I think it'll be a happy time for about an hour but as I say if by the time we get to 8:30 everybody's had more than enough then there's no expectation on my part I love going home and I'll be glad I'll be glad to do that as well Lord we thank you so much for the the wisdom of your word we thank you for the the clarity that it possesses forgive us the dimness of our sight thank you that in multiple counselors that is it there is great wisdom thank you for the reminders again and again of those who have gone before and have blazed a trail and have worked many of these things through and are able to help us even from the grave with the insight that they were privileged to know in their earthly pilgrimage Lord it's easy for us to look around and see the problems here and there but we recognize that the person that we have the most trouble with in our entire congregation is ourselves and Lord look upon us in your mercy we pray whatever what an amazing thing that you choose to put treasure in old clay pots God granted the transcendent power might always seen seen be seen to belong to God and not to us thank you for this food for those who prepared it for the joy of one another's company around the tables and for this lovely day we command Al and Ryan to you as they travel back to Louisville thanking you for the brief time that they've spent with us so helpful so refreshing and we commend them to your loving care in Christ's name Amen

Channel: Alistair Begg

Views: 21,684

Rating: 4.8866396 out of 5

Keywords:

Id: 42anEaEJvs8

Length: 70min 59sec (4259 seconds)

Published: Tue May 09 2017