Pythagoras & His Weird Religious Cult

out of all the great ancient greek philosophers there are few that are more household names than others figures like plato aristotle and socrates and on that list is probably also the mysterious pythagoras we've all heard his name hell we all had to learn that theorem in school when we grew up but what do we actually know about pythagoras when i say the name pythagoras what comes to mind perhaps scientist ancient greek philosopher perhaps mathematics and geometry an ancient proto-scientist interested in the ways that reality is built on mathematics and geometry pretty likely but how about cult leader shaman and hater of beings probably not words that you associate with pythagoras but words that might not be too far off from the truth and maybe even more close to the truth than those concepts that we usually associate with his name so let's dive into the world of ancient greece and explore the fascinating life and movement of pythagoras and the pythagoreans [Music] pythagoras is a so-called pre-socratic philosopher this means that he is a figure that lived before socrates and this speaks to the importance of the latter figure more than anything else it is generally believed that pythagoras lived between the 6th to 5th centuries bc and is thus one of the earliest figures of his kind that we know of now there are a lot of legends surrounding pythagoras in later periods he came to represent the originator of some of the most fundamental philosophical ideas and currents that were believed to be carried on by figures like plato and many others he's sometimes even called the first philosopher and holds a very high status and role in the western philosophical tradition there is thus a tendency to project later ideas and developments backwards onto pythagoras but can we somehow remove all these myths and get an idea of who the real historical pythagoras was possibly but not without some struggle the later self-proclaimed followers of pythagoras the so-called pythagoreans came to make up a distinct group in antiquity and were characterized by specific ideas and a particular pythagorean way of life aspects of which might be traceable to the man himself but as the intro suggested it might not be what you expect so who was he then well as i'm sure you're used to hearing by this point the sources really aren't on our side pythagoras himself never wrote anything he wrote no texts no books and most accounts of his life often come centuries after he died did he even exist probably but it can be difficult to tell legend from historical truth in general some of the later sources that describe his life and teachings may indeed of course have their source in earlier traditions and the existence of a somewhat continuous quote unquote pythagorean way of life followed by people at the time can be helpful in tracing these traditions back to his own time especially useful for us are the so-called accusmata sayings attributed to pythagoras himself which sometimes include direct references to the way of life that he is said to have taught the most complete accounts of his life come in the third and fourth centuries ce or a.d we have two works entitled the life of pythagoras from this time one by diogenes lyricist and another by porphyry we also have a work called on the pythagorean life by the famous neoplatonist iamblicus these are all written 800 years after pythagoras supposedly lived and don't exactly strive for historical objectivity but there are aspects of them that can be used we also have more fragmentary mentions earlier on in writings by people like aristotle and even earlier figures that are more trustworthy for that reason but these accounts are not as complete so with this in mind what do we got pythagoras was born and grew up on the island of samos basically nothing at all is known about his early life but some claim that he would have traveled a lot to places like babylon and especially egypt to learn the so-called wisdoms of the egyptians indeed pythagoras is especially associated with egyptian wisdoms and some of his ideas claimed to have come from that land originally now we should keep in mind that this was a very common trope back then and it shouldn't necessarily be taken as entirely true in any case at some point when he was around 40 years old he moved to the greek city of kroton in southern italy and it is here that he really enters history at least relatively he starts gathering followers and espousing his teachings and way of life indeed by all accounts pythagoras became quite famous during his own lifetime as a kind of sage his fame didn't come from some mathematical theories or quote-unquote philosophy in the regular sense of that word but rather as a kind of wonder-working sage who could perform amazing superhuman feats and who led a group of followers that followed a certain pythagorean way of life which included rituals and rules that seemed and still kind of seem pretty weird the view of pythagoras as a kind of magical being is found all over the sources aristotle retells a few stories quote the son of nicomachus in other words aristotle adds that pythagoras was once seen by many people on the same day and at the same hour both at metapontum and at croton and at olympia during the games he got up in the theater and showed that one of his thighs was golden which was a sign of divinity the same rider says that while crossing the cosas he was hailed by the river and that many people heard him so healed it is also told that pythagoras supposedly killed a deadly biting serpent by biting it himself which is incredibly badass and a bunch of similar stories in other words the reputation that pythagoras had at the time according to many people was not as some scientific philosopher that word didn't really even exist at that point but rather as a kind of semi divine being who had very significant psychic and spiritual powers i used the word shaman in the intro and that word should rarely be employed and it doesn't really work here either but you can kind of see why some people have gravitated towards calling him a shaman he had secret wisdoms and performed practices that allowed him to be in multiple places at the same time perhaps his soul could travel to different realms and other such juicy things and that point about the soul is very important because it actually segues nicely into the actual teachings that he is associated with indeed pythagoras seems to have taught that the soul is distinct from the body that it is immortal and survives after the body's death this was a quite unusual teaching at the time but would be picked up by many in the future including of course plato this is one of those things that he might indeed have gotten from the egyptians who indeed did believe in a post-mortem life for the soul or souls sometimes after the body dies the immortal soul is then reborn into another body that's right pythagoras most likely taught the theory of reincarnation this is perhaps most colorfully indicated in a story that appears in both xenophonies and diogenes literature's life of pythagoras quotes once they said that he was passing by when a puppy was being whipped and he took pity and said stop do not beat it for it is the soul of a friend that i recognized when i heard it screaming in this somewhat comical but telling story pythagoras recognizes that it is the soul of an old friend that has reincarnated as this particular dog we don't know much at all about the details of pythagoras theory of reincarnation in other spots it seems like he imagines the soul to be subject to a kind of divine judgment after death where it can be punished in the underworld or have a more pleasant afterlife maybe this is connected somehow to the nature of reincarnation but we simply don't know what is clear is that pythagoras was seen as an expert on the nature of the soul and its fate after death we're beginning to get a new idea of who this guy was or at least claimed to be a person who knew a thing or two about the soul and could perhaps even manipulate his own soul to do really cool tricks and so it isn't perhaps that surprising that he made quite a name for himself and that he managed to gather a devoted group of followers in croton these first pythagoreans would have been like a little secret society gathering around their teachers to learn esoteric teachings and practices and they were especially characterized as i've alluded to already by following a certain pythagorean way of life this was in fact what pythagoras and his followers were mostly famous for having a specific set of rules and ritual conducts that made them stand out and here the acousmata or supposed sayings of the man himself becomes especially important it's not certain just how much of this is true but it certainly paints a picture first of all it seems that pythagoras was vegetarian and that his way of life included following a vegetarian diet this was perhaps connected to the idea of reincarnation as these two tend to be connected sometimes apart from this a lot of the rules that the pythagoreans followed were connected to religious ritual rules of conduct that were to be followed in the temples for example pythagoras didn't form a new religion of his own they followed the established greek religion at the time but formulated particular rules surrounding these religious rites for example one wasn't allowed to enter the temple barefoot you had to quote poor libations to the gods from the ear or handle of the cup you couldn't wear images of the gods on your finger and you couldn't sacrifice a white fair enough you might think but there is more and it gets weirder the pythagoreans weren't allowed to bury their dead in wool you had to put on the right shoe first before the left foot you weren't supposed to travel on public roads and perhaps the strangers of them all you were absolutely not allowed to eat beans beans were no good at all in an account from the life of pythagoras we learn about this bean hates as well as some of the other rules quotes pythagoreans enjoy and abstention from beings either because they are like the privy parts or because they are like the gates of hades for this is the only plant that has no joints or because they are destructive unclear what that means or because they are like the nature of the universe also highly unclear or because they are oligarchical being used in the choice of rulers by lot things that fall from the table they were told not to pick up to accustom them to eating with moderation or because such things mark the death of someone they must not touch a white because this animal is sacred to the month and is a supplient and supplication is a good thing they must not break the loaf nor must they divide the love which brings them together others explain the rule by reference to the judgment in hades others explain that it is from the loaf that the universe starts other than these specific rules the pythagoreans were expected to live a somewhat austere and contemplative life called step not over a balance in other words be not covetous poke not the fire with a sword in other words do not vex with sharp words a man swollen with anger pluck not the crown in other words offend not against the laws which are the crowns of cities or again eat not hearts i vex not yourself with grief sit not on the cornration i.e live not in idleness when on a journey turn not back in other words when you are dying cling not to this life if some of you know a thing or two about the ancient world you might already be thinking what i'm about to say a lot of this reminds us of the so-called mystery cults that existed in antiquity in the hellenic world particularly indeed many have compared and connected pythagoras and the pythagoreans to the so-called orphics another ancient mystery called centered around the mythical figure of orpheus these two groups share a lot of features and it wouldn't be too far off to call the pythagoreans a kind of mystery cult kirk raven and surefield describe the orphic cult as such quote we can safely say that the name of orpheus was associated from at least the fifth century on with the institution of various rights which included initiation into mysteries depicting terrors of hades and whose object was to produce a happy state for initiates before and after death much the same can probably be said for the pythagoreans they were a group based on secret initiation and which probably included special rituals and practices alongside a general ascetic way of life and the rules mentioned above to help the initiate purify his soul in some way in hopes of a better afterlife or perhaps better reincarnation there's a great aura of esotericism over pythagoras in general there's a lot we don't know about what went on in the group and what their teacher actually taught and this is partially on purpose in fact another thing that the pythagoreans became famous for was their practice of silence both in a literal sense of just being silent and not talking some sources claim that a person who wanted to become a pythagorean had to observe a five-year silence but secondly this silence also includes a less literal way of simply keeping their mouth shut about the secrets of their master's teachings there seems to have been certain esoteric aspects to pythagoras ideas that his followers weren't allowed to disclose to the uninitiated it's the kind of stuff that we both love and hate to see understandably perhaps this colorful little group attracted quite a lot of attention at the time but not all of it was positive indeed it is said that the group came under attack at some point in the last years of the 6th century bc even to the point of violence which forced pythagoras to relocate to another greek city in italy called metapontum where he's thought to have died somewhere around 490 bc now you might be saying to yourself hold on that's it there's nothing about mathematics or geometry or any other things that we associate with pythagoras fair point and this is actually a very difficult topic it is indeed true that the name pythagoras is primarily associated with philosophy that involves numbers and the relationship and importance in reality and in the world and when anyone talks about later philosophers you know as soon as they say as soon as they say anything about numbers like plato talking about the one or the dyad as soon as numbers come into the picture people tend to say oh that's pythagorean and a lot of the time these philosophers would say the same plato himself was often seen by his later followers as following a pythagorean tradition of wisdom but are these ideas actually pythagorean as in originating in the thought of pythagoras himself there is very little in the direct sources about his life that suggests that he had any such ideas but that doesn't mean that they aren't there at all we should be careful not to apply later ideas backward and indeed a lot of ideas that later thinkers identified as pythagorean were actually platonist and anachronistically projected backwards to pythagoras to legitimize them but at the same time it is very possible that he did have ideas about the fundamental role of numbers in the cosmos indeed his movement did survive after he died after all some time in association with this it is often thought that the movement was divided into two general camps the acousmaticoi which focused on the religious rules and rituals that had characterized the movement outwardly and the mathematico who instead appears to have focused on what we would refer to as more philosophical questions especially including and here's the kicker mathematics even if this version of events isn't based entirely on historical fact it's hard to say indeed in the fourth century just a little bit later we have many people and in this period we of course have a lot more contemporary sources that refer to these people we have people who self-identify as pythagorean and whose philosophy and his teachings resemble a lot more what we would associate with that name figures like philo laos argued that reality was based on the concept of the unlimited and limit and on the harmony between the two making numbers essential to understanding the cosmos and arjitas made significant innovations to mathematics and geometry both being pythagoreans indeed the later pythagoreans of the fourth century and after its resurgence while later came to be associated not only with that characteristic way of life sometimes not at all but with mystical and philosophical ideas surrounding numbers stuff like numerology geometry arithmetic and music theory in the most general sense pythagoreans believed that reality was somehow made up of numbers and this expresses itself in a multitude of ways geometry is of course intimately connected with numbers and math and the pythagoreans develop geometric theories that also seemingly explain the inner workings of the cosmos especially in works by people like phil laos who talk about the unlimited and limit harmony becomes important in pythagoreanism mathematical and geometric ratios and harmony are key to their philosophy and is also directly connected to music which is another subject with which pythagoreanism is strongly associated the pythagoreans develop significant theories around music theory and are key to the understanding of harmonic ratios in music for example determining the fourth fifth an octave in a scale the harmony between musical notes and chords is all based on mathematical ratios that correspond to auditory experience and lastly pythagoreanism is also associated with a certain cosmology involving the revolution of the planetary spheres as a part of this mathematical harmonious universe indeed the already mentioned phila laos may have been one of the first to suggest that the earth was not in the center of the universe and some even claimed that he affirmed the heliocentric model based on his claim that the earth revolves around the great fire but this is of course interpretation to connect it all again the pythagoreans would hold to a theory of the so-called music of the spheres that the heavenly bodies as they revolve and move across the sky and their spheres create harmonious music so all of it is connected to the mathematical and geometric ideas surrounding harmony is it possible then that these ideas at least some of them originate with pythagoras himself sure in fact i think it would be a little weird that so many who claim to follow the teachings of pythagoras in later centuries simply took those ideas completely out of thin air so to say it is quite possible that underneath the ascetic ways of life and the ritual rules pythagoras had more esoteric secret teachings involving numbers and harmony some later followers may have chosen to follow only the ritualistic and practical aspects of his thought perhaps the so-called accusmaticoi while others brought into light the more speculative philosophical teachings the so-called mathematico perhaps but it is a difficult topic to wrap your head around indeed sometime in the 4th century the pythagoreans essentially disappeared it is only a few centuries later in the last years before the turn of the common era that we see a resurgence of what is known as neo-pythagoreanism and this isn't necessarily a school of thought per se but a loose group of individuals who all held pythagoras as a central figure in the history of philosophy perhaps even as the first philosopher it is these so-called neo-pythagoreans that might have originated some of the ideas that we most associate with pythagoreanism more generally and which traces all later wisdom such as the ideas of plato for example back to the figure of pythagoras the neopythagoreans were often heavily influenced by platonism in fact and later played an important part in the development of so-called neoplatonism but even aside from these philosophical ideas the legacy of pythagoras continued to be carried forward in different ways even in late antiquity there are people who are associated with pythagoras or associated with pythagoreanism simply based on their behaviors and conduct perhaps connected to that so-called pythagorean way of life that he was so strongly associated with these pythagoreans were so identified because they for example were vegetarians that they were very simple clothing had unkept hair and beard something that was very unusual in roman times especially and that they kind of smelled bad so basically they were kind of like the hippies of antiquity in other words the legacy of the wonder working sage was carried forward in many different and diverse ways even many many centuries after he died so pythagoras is an enigma in more ways than one to me he's one of the most interesting characters one of the most interesting figures in the whole tradition of ancient greek philosophy and religion there are perhaps many different sides to his life and thoughts sides that were carried forward by different groups of his followers in later centuries most of us might have heard his name many times and been taught that theorem in school which probably wasn't his to begin with but few of us have delved into the mysterious wonder working semi-divine sage side of him that is so fascinating but that's why i'm here to provide you with esoteric and strange goodies to help you sleep at night for now i hope you've learned something new about pythagoras and his weird religious cults we should definitely spend more episodes in the future talking about those mathematical ideas that his later followers were associated with something that i only had time to touch on very briefly in this episode it does indeed provide some of the most interesting and foundational ideas in the history of philosophy and mysticism so as you contemplate that one plus two plus three plus four equals 10 don't forget to leave a comment and like the video if you feel like it deserved it and i'll see you next time [Music] you

Channel: Let's Talk Religion

Views: 665,743

Keywords: Pythagoras, Pythagoreans, Pythagoreanism, Who was Pythagoras, Philosophy, Greek Philosophy, Pre-socratic philosophy, Who was Pythagoras?, Mathematics, Geometry, Pythagoras cult, mystery cult, mystery religion, greek philosophy, reincarnation, Philolaus, Archytas, Pythagoras explained, Pythagorean theorem, history, religion, ancient greece, ancient greece religion, Socates, Plato, Platonism, music of the spheres

Id: HgR6YrJDUR8

Length: 22min 47sec (1367 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 24 2022