PS5 Pro Spec Leak Reaction - Is It Real? How Powerful Is It?

okay so recently uh leaks emerged revealing a potential specification for Sony's upcoming PlayStation 5 Pro completely unconfirmed no idea if this is actually happening however the source is Tom Henderson who has correctly predicted uh the Q Project's Q handheld so you know he's got uh he's got the credentials he's also predicted a PlayStation 5 with a detachable Blu-ray Drive so yeah basically if that detachable Blu-ray 5 comes along we should be expecting that the pro will come along um I'm going to go to you first of all John but before we do um there's this question from supporter gatty and it kind of accurately represents some of the discussions we've been having about the whole concept of a pro console for this generation and the question is in the most recent PlayStation showcase uh Jim Ryan said and I quote Developers scratching the surface of what's possible with the gaming experiences that they create I understand it's mostly a marketing phase but saying that in the third year of ps5's life cycle does it not paint the whole idea of PS5 Pro even more confusing do you think it will be a product in search of a problem to solve assuming the problem is not 8K gaming what do you reckon this is kind of a weird thing and I'm very curious as to the purpose of a product like this because we're kind of in that state where the PS5 itself just hasn't really it kind of feels like we're still starting this generation right like we've talked about this before where we've just we're just starting to see some games take advantage of it although we did see some earlier on and then it kind of went back to cross gen and I I feel like unlike last time with the PS4 Pro which did have that uh purpose of targeting 4K displays which were becoming more widespread 8K is not the problem to solve as 8K displays have not become commonplace and I think they're mostly undesirable still I would say like they're interesting but it basically means everything will be upscaled which you don't necessarily want right so I think this time the only way they could really sell it is to take more of a an iterative approach kind of tapping further down the the cell phone Road I suppose where it's like this is just a more powerful box they already promised 4K and well technically they promised 8K with the PS5 right though they did not deliver on that so this is basically just like well you know here's an upgrade like you'd upgrade your phone here's a more powerful machine it's like upgrading the GPU I think with the release of all these other products in different categories like graphics cards and phones people become somewhat more accustomed to just upgrading their Hardware you know and I feel like if this comes out in late 2024 that will have been four years since the launch of PlayStation 5 which is still a decent amount of time between upgrades and that would actually make if this happens it would still have last uh there'd be a larger gap between PS5 and PS5 Pro than there was between PS4 4 and PS4 Pro right that was three years because that was 2016. so I think it's a fair ask it's just I'm really it's it's such a you're strong struggling with it because it just doesn't seem that compelling to me right well we've got an interesting question here from supporter Dirk Hodder in hear me out so I think Remnant 2 just made the strongest case for PS5 Pro yeah with its uncapped performance mode going as low as 720p not even the best implementation of dlss can prevent that from looking bad on increasingly large 4K TV screens if this is indicative of the kind of performance cost nanite is likely to command and then I fear by the end of the generation base PlayStation 5 is going to be running games at resolutions that will make the PS3 blush uh thoughts on that one Oliver I think well before you come in on that one uh Unreal Engine 5 is basically a work in progress It's getting better and better all the time and the Unreal Engine 5 games that we would have uh that we're seeing now would have been developed on a much older version I'm not entirely sure that you can set your store based on Remnant 2 but what do you what do you reckon about this one Oliver well I think the first thing to get out of the way is that Remnant 2 indeed at least as we counted it does go down to 720p class resolutions in its higher performance modes but the actual experience on a real display is not like not like 720p it's closer to 1440p right uh based on our coverage so it is up sampling very effectively you do get more breakup in motion but to some degree that's mass by the motion blur so it's really much more like 1440p and to me at least from a normal viewing distance 1440p still looks very good in a 4K setup can look very good at least if it's quick temporally stable I think um I do think it probably does indicate that ue5 at least in this state is very heavy especially when you start pouring in nanite and vsms and all that stuff especially if you look at the game on PC it really does collapse a little bit when you hit those higher Shadow settings so uh I mean it would definitely help but also developers are going to be targeting the PlayStation 5 as the most common platform and also the series s is a baseline kind of platform so I don't think the existence of like let's say 10 million PS5 Pros or 15 million by the end of the generation really does that much I think ue5 needs to scale to those lower power platforms regardless of what the pro is doing right even if it is really good actually Oliver that's a really good point and this is in the fact that there is actually a use case for this product more than I had considered and it's the fact that by still needing to Target these lower end platforms especially with the PS5 as a base in the PlayStation side one can assume that they will not be able to take full advantage in the way that you would think for a PS5 Pro in terms of building games just for that spec instead that would just allow them to basically solve these image quality problems and performance problems for Unreal Engine 5 and other more demanding Technologies in the way so it does kind of it kind of ensures that so right now we're seeing the switch between 60 to 30 30 frames per second is becoming standard again somewhat I would say it hasn't truly reached that point we're still seeing performance modes but I feel like 30 is becoming more common just as we kind of suspected earlier on whereas I think with the upgrades we're seeing on these PS5 Pro specs this could essentially alleviate that problem and allow it to reach 60 frames per second more easily and maybe even 120 frames per second so as these Unreal Engine 5 games begin to roll out with all these new features because they need to Target those older machines it makes it a lot more feasible to just take what they've built already and just increase the frame rate maybe some slight boost to Fidelity but not enough to bring the frame rate down so this might be our ticket to more 60 frames per second ue5 games although you know with the most talented developers I would still expect 60 FPS anyways like I don't know what the Coalition has in store but I would imagine that their game will in fact Target 60 frames per second and likely feature all of these ue5 bills and whistles well on Xbox of course not on Playstation but you know what I mean so but I think a lot of developers are going to struggle with getting really performant results out of ue5 especially in these first couple of years okay well let's take a look at uh Tom Henderson's actual report on that his key to Gaming website um yeah it's there's actually sort of like only one or two lines of actual detail about the products there is a lot of a lot of padding surrounding it um uh yes um let's talk about the details here you saw um thought talking about 30 wgps and 18 000 Mega transfers per second memory so yeah that basically translates into uh more commonly understood parlance as 60 compute units versus the 36 that are currently in the PlayStation 5. um 18 gigabits per second memory I think the PlayStation 5S is one memory speed yep 14 gigabits per second um so yes that's quite interesting um lots of questions about that first of all you know going from um 36 to um 60 compute units that is a tangible bump the question is whether we're going to get all of those 60 compute units in the final shipping product because well you know to be honest it's um a case where certain uh certain chips are defective on the production line and to make those chips viable they deactivate parts of the GPU if you're going to do that you've got to do it on all the chips of the production line so possibly it could be lower than 30 than 60 compute units but possibly not we just don't know at the moment um we don't know the architecture is it our dna2 is it rdna3 is it some sort of weird hybrid like we saw with the PlayStation 4 Pro which had a lot of Vega architectural features sort of back ported to earlier versions of gcn and then put into this this chip we don't know anything about the the CPU side of things which brings up another interesting question from supporter let's let me check this out struggling Shader from what I've seen the PS5 pro league talks about only GPU and memory but from my perspective the main bottleneck we're seeing is CPU what is the best way to increase CPU performance without breaking compatibility only clocks or could we have some 3D style v cache added to the Zen to Cluster so we're talking about things that are actually plausible for a console here um if we look at what the pro did it basically just kept the existing CPU and up clocked it by about 30 possibly the same thing could be happening here however one thing that we uh have seen I mean when I actually spoke to Mark Cerny about PS4 Pro he was talking about they kept to the Jaguar cause in PS4 Pro for compatibility purposes but they seem to have overcome any compatibility issues when they moved to um Zinn to for PS5 so conservatively speaking I would expect them to stick with Zen 2 but increase the clock speeds however possibly there is the option to move to Zen four or even a more later architecture it all depends really on on compatibility and die area specifically um the thing that sort of well first of all I do think that these specs are kind of plausible and there's another guy on Twitter a known leaker of AMD Hardware specifications uh Kepler underscore L2 says it's real says the chip is code named viola and has basically cooperated uh Tom Henderson's report he says it's the only real PlayStation 5 Pro uh report out there at the moment um what's sort of bothering me a little bit about this 60 compute unit situation is that um if you look at compatibility Sony has taken a hardware driven approach so you know PS4 to PS4 Pro they doubled the GPU size um but it enabled them to have perfect compatibility with PlayStation 4. PlayStation 4 Pro to PlayStation 5 they kept the same amount of compute units right but obviously the compute unit itself was overhauled massive clock speed boosts to do the same trick on a PS5 Pro to have this sort of symmetrical Hardware um you'd be looking at an atcu part which would be kind of nuts and if we're reporting 60 compute units in this chip that would mean like 25 of them are being disabled which doesn't make sense so maybe Sony has moved on from this concept of pure Hardware compatibility maybe there's something new that's going on here um yeah the memory kind of makes sense you'd want more memory bandwidth for the faster GPU I'm not sure there's going to be more memory as such because you know what do you need it for the original PlayStation 5 is already targeting for 4K textures right so it's just going to be extra Brute Force other stuff that's happening in the um well Rich what about a AK they keep talking about I mean well um let's let's as I said let's look at the uh the key to gaming um things that they're talking about here uh they're talking about uh improved and consistent frames uh FPS at 4K resolution which kind of goes without saying right um and they're talking about a new performance mode for 8K resolution when really I think we'd all be very happy with an actual performance mode for 4K resolution right yeah absolutely one that one that actually works um how they're gonna do this performance mode who knows um and uh accelerated rate facing which may or may not be part of um clock speed bus we don't know the clock speeds that's of crucial importance um it may be through architectural advancements it may be that um you know Mark cerny's come up with his own Ray tracing Hardware design that's entirely bespoke for consoles but is a great fit for consoles might not end up in the in the PC space there's been a lot of stuff that's happened in PlayStation consoles so checkerboarding hardware for example that never made its way into uh into the PC space because it kind of wasn't needed one interesting thing I just thought about was uh so again with 8K right do you recall when the PS4 Pro launched they updated the firmware on the base PS4 to finally allow HDR support on that system as well so I'm wondering if perhaps we'll finally get like 8K output at least as an option on the regular PS5 as the Box promised you know obviously you know native 8K rendering 8K rendering in general would be ridiculous and not I don't think it's that feasible for most games but I mean they could have an 8K upscale option right like where it just sends an 8K signal to your display but that that then it just comes down to who do you where do you want the processing of the image to happen the PS5 or your TV right well this week it was announced that 14 million PlayStation 5S have now sold by all of them every single box all 40 million of those boxes have got 8K on them yep and three years on nothing there's there's no 8K support for the PlayStation 5 at all so maybe at some point it will be enabled right but um yeah that that one is kind of baffling to me um yeah it's just really really weird right because um the PlayStation 4 Pro had a reason to exist right it had several reasons first of all in theory it was a much better fit for PlayStation VR um than the bass box right so if PlayStation VR had taken off in a significant manner I think we could have seen more impressive VR support for psvr too secondly it was you know it did a fairly creditable job of um of delivering a 4K experience right you know Horizon God of War it's not ideal but it looks decent on a 4K display right 8K isn't a good reason good enough reason for for a PS5 for you you can't sell it so I think it is ultimately going to be about performance but Oliver I think you'd agree that there are there is going to be a subset of the audience out there who will just want the fastest PlayStation possible way well I'm very much part of that audience for sure you know PlayStation 5 that's roughly twice as fast in line with the PS4 Pro kind of style upgrade I'm definitely interested in that personally although maybe that's a you know relatively small component of the market I think that there are definitely I think three key problems that face the PS5 Pro in terms of marketing because if you're looking at targeting higher resolutions the PS5 is already targeting 4K displays and does a reasonably credible job of of doing that you know you can do a better job certainly but I don't know how much of a back of the box marketing feature that is you know do you target higher frame rates well you know you might have a two times boost in GP performance but you don't have a two times boost and CP performance by you know all likelihood it's going to be a probably a clock bump that's where the majority of the performance scan will probably come from I think and then do you enhance Ray tracing well a lot of you know games are built around a certain set of RT features and then you know if you add some more in there maybe that's not that big of an impact so it does seem like a box with more power that's sort of up to the the developer to figure out what they're going to do with it whereas the PS4 Pro was very specifically buy this box if you want to play this on a 4kid TV and that was very effective marketing and I think it conveyed the value of the product and people purchased it and it did do a decent job of addressing 4K displays and the whole AK thing is a little bit of a you know Pie in the Sky thing because 8K is it's so hard to perceive the difference at least when I've seen in demos from 8K to 4K at normal viewing distances you know the visual Acuity of the human eye is not it's not that good I mean yeah I could I can tell you how it looks it just looks like really good anti-aliasing right right yeah a bit you get really really good image quality but as you say the further you are from the screen there's sort of diminishing returns on it it's kind of like I mean you know for bragging rights it's absolutely incredible I mean this week on the DF supporter program I mean we've been experimenting with an HDMI 2.1 capture card we've got 8K 60 capture actually working and it does look it does look kind of phenomenal but it's you know it required like a RTX 1490 to to actually get decent results at 8K and um yeah I'd be really interested to see what uh uh quote unquote performance mode for 8K resolution looks like um because uh yeah um I I just think it's far more uh pertinent to the user to actually have a decent 4K experience and I'm curious about what this performance mode could be because um the one thing that's sort of coming up as a result of um of this spec leak is that a lot of people are talking about um uh that the spec isn't like you know as much of a leap as they expected it's slightly disappointing thing is there were exactly the same arguments leveled at the PS4 Pro where the GPU is essentially an underclocked RX 470 and yet you know it's got decent enhancements within there that actually made 4K possible it was a worthwhile machine overall the thing is though that there was a sort of degree of I'm not going to say laziness but there's a certain degree of the fact that developers didn't really have the bandwidth to accommodate all of these different skus so we got a lot of games that ran at 1080p on the base machine and just with the same thing at 1440p on the pro which wasn't hugely it was nice but not hugely compelling yeah yeah I think a lot of it does come down to as well what uh you know enhancements to the architecture we could see because like if you look at the history of AMD GPU designs in consoles and PCs you see a lot of cross-pollination like Vega in PS4 Pro the 360 xenos chip had a lot of terrascale features uh like unified shaders and it wouldn't be surprising to me if the you know hypothetical PS5 Pro included some rdne3 uh Hardware or features or included some rdna4 potentially Hardware features because the consoles often kind of lead the GPU to sound in the PC and there's a lot of cross-pollination there even if it's not the exact same thing so I think you know that's kind of a bit of a black box because we don't really know what's going on at AMD with respect to you something like Arduino for but if there is like you know just Pie in the Sky for instance say there is like a hardware acceleration for fsr3 and suppose that fsr3 is good that changes the game with respect to a potential PS5 Pro if it does indeed have that feature and Hardware right so you can see so yeah yeah that's an interesting point given that uh the sort of upscaling techniques dlss took off when this cut when PS5 and series X and S were already well into development right AMD kind of had to play catch up with FSR too and I could conceivably see a situation where you know Sony's going back to AMD and they're kind of working on on a way to solve this to make this better and faster if they can get not to say they can actually match dlss so quickly but I could see them looking at something like dlss and saying we want to achieve this in our console and we want to implement the hardware to make it feasible especially if you put 8K on the box and actually make it happen right you could conceivably then reach an 8K output that looks reasonably okay and it would also ensure that the 4K output would look great no matter what uh you know what I I still see Fame Jenner's a better fit for 120 hertz than for 60 hertz I I 100 agree and if you're right if fsr3's frame gen features that they've been talking about uh come to fruition in this console that could actually be a very powerful tool for reaching 120 frames per second as well yeah I wouldn't underestimate Sony's input into this I mean you know 2016 we had the PlayStation 4 Pro with uh checkerboard rendering and um you know AMD had nothing like it their own upscaling solution that arrived like years later was a basic spatial upscaler and then we finally got FSR 2 right um but you know Sony was just way ahead of the game in that particular regard you know with custom Hardware which was entirely uh you know sourced by them and AMD implemented it um but of course there were software solutions by that point as well and of course there was 10 injection you know we saw Insomniac solution for Marvel Spider-Man at the PS4 Pro launch and it looked phenomenal so yeah I mean we're looking at the specs but the experience could be quite something quite different but that said I agree with you Oliver that um that there's plenty of scope for am for Sony to dig into the um AMD roadmap and take out some of those features I mean um rdna3 has got dual issue fp32 which is why we're seeing these crazy teraflop figures for Rd and A3 it doesn't seem to do much in the PC space but it could be quite beneficial within a you know within a fixed platform like a console right and I'm sure there's more coming you know our dna4 is is is on Route and yeah there's you know there's there's the scope there for a product that will do things that the PlayStation 5 simply can't do but I'm you know just to sort of bring this discussion in a sort of circular way back to the beginning why does this machine exist I mean how do you get success in the console market and you do it by getting as many machines out there at as lower price as possible so yeah this machine has got to justify a premium price point while at the same time the base machine has got to get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and we'll talk about some of the crazy deals that are happening with with PS5 um shortly there's just a lot going on there but yeah what can I say I'm really interested to see what this is going to actually deliver beyond the specifications because um yeah that's just the starting point right that's the starting point of um of the discussion and it it really does feel like a um a sort of deja vu experience compared to where we first got the specs for the PS4 Pro which is like yeah this is interesting but but what's it actually gonna do that this base machine doesn't do already apart from having a faster GPU you know if there was there were big questions there and it wasn't until we actually had the presentation that we started to see some amazing stuff so I do actually have one part on one further justification that we haven't discussed so far that might actually make this machine a bit more compelling which is backwards compatibility on the PlayStation 6. these last generation we had the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X which had a 4K visual Target we're aiming for 4K visual Target and then on PlayStation 5 and series X you bring those enhancements forward right and also makes it easier to deliver 60 frames per second versions of those existing titles that might ever hit 30 4K 30 on on the old consoles and if you presume that Sony sticks with AMD Hardware that's going to give them a big Advantage with some of these older titles that may not get updates right but might be released in the last three or four years that console's life cycle it also puts Microsoft in a bit of an awkward position if they're not delivering a similar kind of enhanced machine I mean Microsoft's whole business model seems to be shifting there the hardware is no longer the Focus right so I think they can certainly get away with not releasing uh competing machine with this especially given that they already have two machines in the market adding a third one to the mix I think would be uh challenging especially for developers right because then presuming this is real that would mean five bespoke current generation consoles which uh yeah yeah there's an interesting discussion adjacent to this which is what is happening with um uh with with Xbox Hardware at the moment it doesn't seem to be having a lot of momentum being put behind it right I mean hopefully the software will drive that momentum because they've got some great stuff coming up but you know it's like you're a furious Fanboy mentioned last week you know they don't seem to be doing much with that opportunity when it actually comes to hardware and um yeah it's it's actually seems to be quite Vicky to get an Xbox at the moment suggesting that they're not focusing on getting Hardware out there which is which is problematic I think but yeah I mean that's that's a completely different discussion the concept of um Sony releasing a a pro console and Microsoft not um doesn't look great I don't think I feel like the only leak we're missing is we need the confirmation of mantis Burns racing two just in time for PS5 Pro I think that would that would complete the circle that is a really interesting thing right yeah that's a bit of a deep cut there John ak-60 that's right it probably would be exactly it would be ak-60 this that's what we're counting on here for those that don't get that reference we actually saw a PS4 Pro game and indeed a PS4 Pro dev kit I think um ahead of it might have been actually after the reveal but before the Deep Dives yeah mantis burn racing native 4K or PS4 Pros yeah I think that was one of the big first tests you did with in terms of capturing at 4K it's like yeah I went to the developer yeah you went to the developer with your gear it's like can we capture this native 4K 60 game on a PS4 Pro and you did yeah we did and it was very very reminiscent of the experiences I'm having now with 8K where you need like gigantic levels of bandwidth because we can't compress it can't compress the foot footage man yeah Happy Days thankfully we got there at the end uh but yeah I mean let's just tie a bow on this PlayStation 5 Pro we're going to be obviously following up any little rumors and credible leaks as they appear so yeah do please stay tuned

Channel: DF Clips

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Length: 28min 21sec (1701 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 02 2023